q for moms with special needs kids

[momofkhm]

At church I'm in charge of our acolyte program. Right now the kids carry a lit candle to the front of the church and sit up front so everyone can see them so they are seen by everyone. (IE a model of behavior for the younger set)

 

I have a mom a special needs child who by age is very much in line with the others who have been acolyting for years already. Oh, she would like LC to be able to acolyte. I've talked with her and she knows LC needs to work on a few things before she can be up front. I talked with the pastor right away about it. he has a few concerns due to her normal behavior. I've been watching LC and I really don't know that she will be ready by the end of the summer. Then I talked with the ladies who run children's church and they were both very surprised by the idea. They also don't think she will be ready by the end of the summer.

 

Since it's been a month or two would you think it rude or helpful if I were to give her a list of what *I* can see that she needs to work on?

1. She needs to come back from children's church walking silently.

2. If she gets distracted in church. She needs to be able to get back on task with a look or gesture. (Again probably no words) I asked the ladies who do children's church to keep an eye on this for me. I only see her with mom but they will see her each week without mom.

3. She needs to be able to allow the pastor to do his job. She (and her sister) tend to give him hugs and talk with him at random times. It's what comes up first with the pastor and the children's church ladies.

 

We have an adult with Down's Syndrome who carries the cross and ushers alternate weeks. We, as a body, accept that things aren't perfect when he "works". And we will accept that things won't be perfect with LC either. But carrying a lit candle makes me nervous. And her self control with hugging the pastor.

 

Second question that I just thought of - mom and dad are divorced. Dad and my dh go hunting together and I'm facebook friends with dad. Should I contact dad and get him to also help with the same things? Mom and dad still have huge anger issues with each other and mom would be very upset with me if she found out I contacted dad. But I do that every year without her knowledge to get prayer requests from him.

 

Thanks!

 

ETA: I look for number 1 and 2 in all kids. But most kids are there before I ask the mom if the kid would like to acolyte. Number 3 is specific to LC.

Edited April 9, 2012 by momofkhm

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I would try to include her in any way possible. A battery powered candle instead of lit? Start working on non verbal cues now for behavior. She could have some small jobs to do if she is not able to sit the entire time.

 

What sort of needs does she have?

 

My kids were in my fathers wedding 4 years ago. We knew ds was going to be, well, like he always is. Other than his normal nehaviors, he was still just 3. We did everything we could to prepare but in the end he was fine.

 

You said the kids sit up front as an example, but i think a good example for all would be including her in some way.

[JFSinIL]

You need to sit down with the parents and go over the hugging etc. parts - also if the child needs to be up front by the priest, can he also be part of the group? Stress to her and her folks how much you all WANT her to be an acolyte, and what she needs to work on to be the best acolyte she can possible be. Her folks could work on her WALKING slowly with a lit candle at home, perhaps, stressing how when we carry fire we WALK slowly. Maybe in church an adult could be positioned in her field of view to give agreed upon signals for "quiet" and "no hugging" etc.

 

Yes, she will be probably mess up a bit. She will never be as perfect as the neuro-typical kids. But so what. It is a candle - she is not being handed a flame thrower.

 

Maybe she could practice a time or two in church with a buddy acolyte, too - or would that upset her, since no one else had a buddy?

 

I am a mom of a special needs kid, and it would be burning me up with sorrow inside to think my kid was not being allowed to try an participate in yet another thing other kids get to do.

Edited April 9, 2012 by JFSinIL

[NittanyJen]

Can she walk with a buddy?

 

I second a lit flashlight idea.

 

Can allowances be made by all for her special personality? In our church we sometimes have a 'little wanderer' who moves up front to give our pastor a hug or announce their new toy or baby sister. Our loving pastor is great about knowing when to use a quick smile, a couple of words, just holding their hand, sometimes she'll walk the child around by the hand while continuing to speak, or her teen daughter will come capture the child and give a tour of the alter and take them back down front, etc. nobody minds a bit. With love, all are socialized into the congregation to the extent of their abilities.

[Wheres Toto]

You said Mom wants LC to acolyte - does LC want to do it? If she does, it will be a lot easier to have her work on how to behave, if she doesn't I doubt anything is going to work.

 

A battery operated candle is a great idea if the fire makes people nervous. She can be told that once she follows the guidelines, she can have a real candle like the other kids. This would allow her to participate now, while still having something to work for.

[NanceXToo]

You know, I'm not an overly religious person, I'm not a Christian at all, I don't go to church, etc., but this is one of those instances where I just kind of roll my eyes thinking, "And what do YOU think your Jesus would do in a situation like this?" Do YOU think he would say "oh no, better turn that special needs child away?"

 

Yeah, yeah. I get it. They're supposed to "model good behavior" blah blah blah. So are the adults. What's modeling good behavior? Hurting the feelings of a special needs child? Discriminating against her?

 

Do you not think that even if her behavior is less than perfect (and it will be) that the parents of the other children in the church, the ones being modeled to, can quietly explain to their offspring how she has some differences/special needs so she's less capable of sitting as quietly, walking as quietly, but look there, she's still a person, still deserving of being included, still deserving of being in the public eye and recognized and accepted.

 

Do you not think about how good it will make that child feel and that that's worth more than a silent walk up an aisle candle in hand?

 

That maybe the act of participating itself will give her a little extra self worth and happiness and teach her a little bit of self control?

 

I'm a little surprised a pastor of all people would consider casting her out.

 

Or maybe I'm not.

 

Give her the battery powered candle for safety purposes.

 

Look the other way a bit if she isn't as quiet, if she gives an extra hug (I mean sure address it but expect it's going to happen anyway because that's what some special needs kids do, mine included; she's 20 now and still does though not as much as when she was younger). Some people smile on this and find it heart warming that they are so affectionate and would find it heart warming that you (general you in charge at your church) were so gracious as to include her despite the fact that she wasn't as "perfect" as the other kids allowed in.

 

And for crying out loud, NO, do not talk to the non-custodial parent behind the mother's back.

[momofkhm]

Yes, she will be probably mess up a bit. She will never be as perfect as the neuro-typical kids. But so what. It is a candle - she is not being handed a flame thrower.

 

Maybe she could practice a time or two in church with a buddy acolyte, too - or would that upset her, since no one else had a buddy?

 

I am a mom of a special needs kid, and it would be burning me up with sorrow inside to think my kid was not being allowed to try an participate in yet another thing other kids get to do.

 

Yeah. I hear you. I want her to able to participate as well. They do walk in twos up and down the aisle. So she would be walking with a buddy anyway. And I'd try to put her on duty with the most mature acolyte we already have. And the same week as the most gentle lay readers. The lay readers are the ones who would keep her on task. When we get to that point, I do have ideas of how to help her be successful.

 

I'm not sure the priest would go for the lit flashlight idea.

 

Our loving pastor is great about knowing when to use a quick smile, a couple of words, just holding their hand, sometimes she'll walk the child around by the hand while continuing to speak, or her teen daughter will come capture the child and give a tour of the alter and take them back down front, etc. nobody minds a bit. With love, all are socialized into the congregation to the extent of their abilities.

 

Our pastor doesn't give me the feeling that he actually likes kids. It's sad really. It's more like he puts up with them. I've always wondered what would happen if a kid ran up to him to give him a hug. A couple weeks ago his own 3 yo granddaughter did during announcements. He picked her up and then she saw mommy. She was still fine, just pointing her out. We all thought it was cute but he was ready to move on in less than a minute. Maybe it's just a "this is during my job" and he's different at home.

 

Your pastor sounds like a wonderful person!

[ktgrok]

You know, I'm not an overly religious person, I'm not a Christian at all, I don't go to church, etc., but this is one of those instances where I just kind of roll my eyes thinking, "And what do YOU think your Jesus would do in a situation like this?" Do YOU think he would say "oh no, better turn that special needs child away?"

 

Yeah, yeah. I get it. They're supposed to "model good behavior" blah blah blah. So are the adults. What's modeling good behavior? Hurting the feelings of a special needs child? Discriminating against her?

 

Do you not think that even if her behavior is less than perfect (and it will be) that the parents of the other children in the church, the ones being modeled to, can quietly explain to their offspring how she has some differences/special needs so she's less capable of sitting as quietly, walking as quietly, but look there, she's still a person, still deserving of being included, still deserving of being in the public eye and recognized and accepted.

 

Do you not think about how good it will make that child feel and that that's worth more than a silent walk up an aisle candle in hand?

 

That maybe the act of participating itself will give her a little extra self worth and happiness and teach her a little bit of self control?

 

I'm a little surprised a pastor of all people would consider casting her out.

 

Or maybe I'm not.

 

Give her the battery powered candle for safety purposes.

 

Look the other way a bit if she isn't as quiet, if she gives an extra hug (I mean sure address it but expect it's going to happen anyway because that's what some special needs kids do, mine included; she's 20 now and still does though not as much as when she was younger). Some people smile on this and find it heart warming that they are so affectionate and would find it heart warming that you (general you in charge at your church) were so gracious as to include her despite the fact that she wasn't as "perfect" as the other kids allowed in.

 

And for crying out loud, NO, do not talk to the non-custodial parent behind the mother's back.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

time to look at the big picture. It's not a big deal in the scheme of things if she gets up and hugs the pastor. It just isn't. I'm sure Jesus wouldn't mind if she did it to him while he was preaching. Let her know that if she wants to go sit back down with Mom that she can do that at any time. She might just want to do the walking part. But for heavens sake, make allowances! It isn't a big deal, other than if you don't include her.

 

And do NOT talk to the non custodial parent about this.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

You know, I'm not an overly religious person, I'm not a Christian at all, I don't go to church, etc., but this is one of those instances where I just kind of roll my eyes thinking, "And what do YOU think your Jesus would do in a situation like this?" Do YOU think he would say "oh no, better turn that special needs child away?"

 

Yeah, yeah. I get it. They're supposed to "model good behavior" blah blah blah. So are the adults. What's modeling good behavior? Hurting the feelings of a special needs child? Discriminating against her?

 

Do you not think that even if her behavior is less than perfect (and it will be) that the parents of the other children in the church, the ones being modeled to, can quietly explain to their offspring how she has some differences/special needs so she's less capable of sitting as quietly, walking as quietly, but look there, she's still a person, still deserving of being included, still deserving of being in the public eye and recognized and accepted.

 

Do you not think about how good it will make that child feel and that that's worth more than a silent walk up an aisle candle in hand?

 

That maybe the act of participating itself will give her a little extra self worth and happiness and teach her a little bit of self control?

 

I'm a little surprised a pastor of all people would consider casting her out.

 

Or maybe I'm not.

 

Give her the battery powered candle for safety purposes.

 

Look the other way a bit if she isn't as quiet, if she gives an extra hug (I mean sure address it but expect it's going to happen anyway because that's what some special needs kids do, mine included; she's 20 now and still does though not as much as when she was younger). Some people smile on this and find it heart warming that they are so affectionate and would find it heart warming that you (general you in charge at your church) were so gracious as to include her despite the fact that she wasn't as "perfect" as the other kids allowed in.

 

And for crying out loud, NO, do not talk to the non-custodial parent behind the mother's back.

 

 

 

:iagree:

[ssavings]

You know, I'm not an overly religious person, I'm not a Christian at all, I don't go to church, etc., but this is one of those instances where I just kind of roll my eyes thinking, "And what do YOU think your Jesus would do in a situation like this?" Do YOU think he would say "oh no, better turn that special needs child away?"

 

Yeah, yeah. I get it. They're supposed to "model good behavior" blah blah blah. So are the adults. What's modeling good behavior? Hurting the feelings of a special needs child? Discriminating against her?

 

Do you not think that even if her behavior is less than perfect (and it will be) that the parents of the other children in the church, the ones being modeled to, can quietly explain to their offspring how she has some differences/special needs so she's less capable of sitting as quietly, walking as quietly, but look there, she's still a person, still deserving of being included, still deserving of being in the public eye and recognized and accepted.

 

Do you not think about how good it will make that child feel and that that's worth more than a silent walk up an aisle candle in hand?

 

That maybe the act of participating itself will give her a little extra self worth and happiness and teach her a little bit of self control?

 

I'm a little surprised a pastor of all people would consider casting her out.

 

Or maybe I'm not.

 

Give her the battery powered candle for safety purposes.

 

Look the other way a bit if she isn't as quiet, if she gives an extra hug (I mean sure address it but expect it's going to happen anyway because that's what some special needs kids do, mine included; she's 20 now and still does though not as much as when she was younger). Some people smile on this and find it heart warming that they are so affectionate and would find it heart warming that you (general you in charge at your church) were so gracious as to include her despite the fact that she wasn't as "perfect" as the other kids allowed in.

 

And for crying out loud, NO, do not talk to the non-custodial parent behind the mother's back.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[speedmom4]

You know, I'm not an overly religious person, I'm not a Christian at all, I don't go to church, etc., but this is one of those instances where I just kind of roll my eyes thinking, "And what do YOU think your Jesus would do in a situation like this?" Do YOU think he would say "oh no, better turn that special needs child away?"

 

Yeah, yeah. I get it. They're supposed to "model good behavior" blah blah blah. So are the adults. What's modeling good behavior? Hurting the feelings of a special needs child? Discriminating against her?

 

Do you not think that even if her behavior is less than perfect (and it will be) that the parents of the other children in the church, the ones being modeled to, can quietly explain to their offspring how she has some differences/special needs so she's less capable of sitting as quietly, walking as quietly, but look there, she's still a person, still deserving of being included, still deserving of being in the public eye and recognized and accepted.

 

Do you not think about how good it will make that child feel and that that's worth more than a silent walk up an aisle candle in hand?

 

That maybe the act of participating itself will give her a little extra self worth and happiness and teach her a little bit of self control?

 

I'm a little surprised a pastor of all people would consider casting her out.

 

Or maybe I'm not.

 

Give her the battery powered candle for safety purposes.

 

Look the other way a bit if she isn't as quiet, if she gives an extra hug (I mean sure address it but expect it's going to happen anyway because that's what some special needs kids do, mine included; she's 20 now and still does though not as much as when she was younger). Some people smile on this and find it heart warming that they are so affectionate and would find it heart warming that you (general you in charge at your church) were so gracious as to include her despite the fact that she wasn't as "perfect" as the other kids allowed in.

 

And for crying out loud, NO, do not talk to the non-custodial parent behind the mother's back.

 

I completely agree with this. I have a child with special needs and I HATE seeing children discriminated against. Children with SN have so few places where they are truly accepted, why can't the church do that? Why do things have to be perfect. I couldn't attend a church where the pastor wasn't accepting and loving of people of all needs.

 

Anyway, this is a subject near and dear to my heart so I tend to see it as black and white. Could her mother accompany her through the ceremony to make sure she is monitored? I wouldn't want to put that responsibility on an older child.

 

Good question!

 

Elise in NC

[chiguirre]

In my experience, peer pressure from the other acolytes may solve a lot of these issues. Geezle sings in the children's choir at our parish. This is a BIG deal, with pretty strict behavioral guidelines about not talking, sitting still, singing on cue, following the mass, etc. He rises to the occasion because all of the kids around him are following the rules and the choir director instills the need for respecting the mass and proper behavioral around the altar. He's done fine with it. OTOH, if we go to church when he's not singing, he has a hard time sitting still, saying the responses, singing the ordinaries (this always amazes and irks me, because he's fine during choir), etc. So, I wouldn't necessarily require this girl to be perfectly well behaved BEFORE she becomes an acolyte, I'd let her try it out and see how it goes. I love the idea of a buddy. Dd usually sits next to ds in the choir and I think that helps him. Having a thousand people watching also tends to keep the kids in line.

 

ETA: I don't think I'd let Geezle sign up to be an altar boy, although maybe by the time he's a teenager I might change my mind (altar "boys and girls" are teens in )our parish}. That is a more mission critical role during mass and it does have to be done right. I think we'd both die of mortification if he dropped a consecrated chalice. Although, of course, that could happen to a neurotypical person too.

Edited April 9, 2012 by chiguirre

[bettyandbob]

I am Christian. I do not think my sn child could handle being an acolyte and he has expressed no interest. However, my church has made other things hard for him to participate in. Simple things like listening to a story in grade based Sunday School groups. Church has been real unpleasant for a couple years for this reason. I suspect after my dd is confirmed we will not return. I may start attending another church that has a reputation of accepting persons with disabilities--even though I disagree with some of their teachings. I would only take my sn child. I won't make my older dc adjust to a new church as teens. They are ready to give up on church based on the issues they've observed with their younger brother.

 

My ds's first experience with bullying was at church. No adults really made an effort to improve/correct the bullying. Sunday School instructors didn't want ds in class. Ds has been in regular classes in public school without issue, sat through library story time without issue, and other activities with typical children. So, I was not expecting too much having him in Sunday School for story time. I was surprised that teachers were so negative.

 

Anyway, I don't know your situation enough to evaluate whether the mom is understanding the skills required for this activity and whether her dd can do it with adaptations. However, this is a good opportunity for your church to consider what they can do for inclusion. Can she have a partner? Can she do only the processional and then move off to sit with mom? Really brainstorm. This is a chance for your church to really grow, not just something to tolerate.

Edited April 9, 2012 by betty

[Haiku]

Wow. Have an adult walk down with her and sit with her, returning her to her mother if her behavior up front isn't manageable.

 

This really doesn't seem like some insurmountable, no-solution-to-be-found issue. Her way probably won't be the same way the other kids do it. So what?

 

Tara

[fhjmom]

First, I will be honest and say I attend a non-liturgical church and I am not sure what an acolyte does, so I am coming from the perspective of general inclusion in the church.

 

I agree with pretty much everything Nance said. Instead of working so hard to make this child fit some preconceived standard, evaluate her abilities and meet her where she is, then find a way to include her based on what she *can* do instead of focusing so much on how she doesn't measure up to the other kids.

 

There is a gentleman born without arms or legs, Nic Vicic (sp?), who has a powerful ministry called "Life without Limbs". He talks about how God had a plan for his life, even though other see him as not capable of much. God has ministered through him in ways that would not have been possible with an able bodied person. All of us within he church are part of the body of Christ and each has a function. I get so tired of churches whose idea of disability ministry is to "help those poor cripple people", or worse yet, those churches that only accept someone with a disability when they can adjust or hide it enough to fit in the already ridgid set of expectations for appearance, behavior and abilities. instead our focus should be as Christ and find a way for them (I mean "us" because I am "disabled" by most people's definition), use their own unique abilities just as God created them to serve within the church.

 

I will get off my soap box now, but this is a really sore subject with me. The church should be one of the most accepting and accommodating places and unfortunately the opposite is true more often than not. I would recommend finding a way for the child to participate within her abilities, as she is, with accommodations and a change in expectations. You can of course try to help her learn to perform similarly to the others, but be accepting I that doesn't happen.

 

And I would not discuss anything with the dad. The mother is the parent that approached you so she is the one you should talk through this with.

[NanceXToo]

I am Christian. I do not think my sn child could handle being an acolyte and he has expressed no interest. However, my church has made other things hard for him to participate in. Simple things like listening to a story in grade based Sunday School groups. Church has been real unpleasant for a couple years for this reason. I suspect after my dd is confirmed we will not return. I may start attending another church that has a reputation of accepting persons with disabilities--even I disagree with some of their teachings. I would only take my sn child. I won't make my older dc adjust to a new church as teens. They are ready to give up on church based on the issues they've observed with their younger brother.

 

My ds's first experience with bullying was at church. No adults really made an effort to improve/correct the bullying. Sunday School instructors didn't want ds in class. Ds has been in regular classes in public school without issue, sat through library story time without issue, and other activities with typical children. So, I was not expecting too much having him in Sunday School for story time. I was surprised that teachers were so negative.

 

Anyway, I don't know your situation enough to evaluate whether the mom is understanding the skills required for this activity and whether her dd can do it with adaptations. However, this is a good opportunity for your church to consider what they can do for inclusion. Can she have a partner? Can she do only the processional and then move off to sit with mom? Really brainstorm. This is a chance for your church to really grow, not just something to tolerate.

 

That's such a shame. I'm sorry your son went through that. I hope you do find him a place where he fits in better and can be happy and feel accepted.

 

Since I'm not religious, it doesn't matter to me if my kids are/aren't. But for someone like you, I imagine it does matter. So for your sake, I hope that something good comes out of your teens' experience, as well. I hope that even if what they observed made them "done with church," I hope it taught them something about the type of Christians and people they want to be belief-wise and action-wise in the end. Not the type that's all lip service, but the type who, like you said, really grow. I loved your last line of your post, by the way. If all it's really about when it comes down to it is putting on a show, or a lot of talk, really, what's the point. If it's about something that really matters, though, and true growth and caring and doing the right thing and people...well, that's what's important in the end. Or should be. And the OP and her church have a chance to make a decision like that here. Hopefully they do the right thing for the right reasons.

[pdalley]

Two of my three autistic boys acoylted. They did such a good job they would like for them to continue even thought the oldest is taller now than the Pastor.

 

No, it won't be perfect. But our church is full of imperfect people and we like it that way. No, none of mine ever set the Pastor or anything on fire. We had one close call but it turned out rather humorous and was easily handled.

 

The boys enjoyed it and the added responsibility helped them learn to handle lots of other things.

 

The youngest cannot handle the noise of sitting up front and when asked said he was not interested. We listened to him.

 

To be quite honest the typical kids were less perfect as acolytes than my kids were but like I said - our church doesn't expect perfection from kids and my kids are very rule bound so that probably made it easier.

[Shellers]

You know, I'm not an overly religious person, I'm not a Christian at all, I don't go to church, etc., but this is one of those instances where I just kind of roll my eyes thinking, "And what do YOU think your Jesus would do in a situation like this?" Do YOU think he would say "oh no, better turn that special needs child away?"

 

Yeah, yeah. I get it. They're supposed to "model good behavior" blah blah blah. So are the adults. What's modeling good behavior? Hurting the feelings of a special needs child? Discriminating against her?

 

Do you not think that even if her behavior is less than perfect (and it will be) that the parents of the other children in the church, the ones being modeled to, can quietly explain to their offspring how she has some differences/special needs so she's less capable of sitting as quietly, walking as quietly, but look there, she's still a person, still deserving of being included, still deserving of being in the public eye and recognized and accepted.

 

Do you not think about how good it will make that child feel and that that's worth more than a silent walk up an aisle candle in hand?

 

That maybe the act of participating itself will give her a little extra self worth and happiness and teach her a little bit of self control?

 

I'm a little surprised a pastor of all people would consider casting her out.

 

Or maybe I'm not.

 

Give her the battery powered candle for safety purposes.

 

Look the other way a bit if she isn't as quiet, if she gives an extra hug (I mean sure address it but expect it's going to happen anyway because that's what some special needs kids do, mine included; she's 20 now and still does though not as much as when she was younger). Some people smile on this and find it heart warming that they are so affectionate and would find it heart warming that you (general you in charge at your church) were so gracious as to include her despite the fact that she wasn't as "perfect" as the other kids allowed in.

 

And for crying out loud, NO, do not talk to the non-custodial parent behind the mother's back.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

 

This post should be addressed to mothers of kids easily distracted kids and NOT mothers of special needs kids. My DS12 has special needs and he doesn't have behavior issues. Talk about stereotyping. Now I'm pissed off. :glare:

[Alessandra]

I would try to include her in any way possible. A battery powered candle instead of lit? Start working on non verbal cues now for behavior. She could have some small jobs to do if she is not able to sit the entire time.

 

Can she walk with a buddy?

 

 

 

this is one of those instances where I just kind of roll my eyes thinking, "And what do YOU think your Jesus would do in a situation like this?" Do YOU think he would say "oh no, better turn that special needs child away?"

 

Yeah, yeah. I get it. They're supposed to "model good behavior" blah blah blah. So are the adults. What's modeling good behavior? Hurting the feelings of a special needs child? Discriminating against her?

 

Do you not think that even if her behavior is less than perfect (and it will be) that the parents of the other children in the church, the ones being modeled to, can quietly explain to their offspring how she has some differences/special needs so she's less capable of sitting as quietly, walking as quietly, but look there, she's still a person, still deserving of being included, still deserving of being in the public eye and recognized and accepted.

 

Do you not think about how good it will make that child feel and that that's worth more than a silent walk up an aisle candle in hand?

 

That maybe the act of participating itself will give her a little extra self worth and happiness and teach her a little bit of self control?

 

I'm a little surprised a pastor of all people would consider casting her out.

 

Or maybe I'm not.

 

Give her the battery powered candle for safety purposes.

 

Look the other way a bit if she isn't as quiet, if she gives an extra hug (I mean sure address it but expect it's going to happen anyway because that's what some special needs kids do, mine included; she's 20 now and still does though not as much as when she was younger). Some people smile on this and find it heart warming that they are so affectionate and would find it heart warming that you (general you in charge at your church) were so gracious as to include her despite the fact that she wasn't as "perfect" as the other kids allowed in.

 

And for crying out loud, NO, do not talk to the non-custodial parent behind the mother's back.

 

I have a child with special needs and I HATE seeing children discriminated against. Children with SN have so few places where they are truly accepted, why can't the church do that? Why do things have to be perfect. I couldn't attend a church where the pastor wasn't accepting and loving of people of all needs.

 

Elise in NC

 

I probably could have quoted all the posts here. Certainly, there used to be a time when people with disabilities were hidden away in institutions, but that time is past, I hope.

 

There are laws about accommodating people with differing abilities. I realize that many of these do not apply to religious institutions, but still they might be a model. Just as there are ramps and other devices for people with physical challenges, there are many ways of accommodating people with less visible needs.

 

In a school, a child might write with a slantboard, sit on a special chair, get preferential seating, have breaks when needed, have an aide -- but the child would be in a regular class/school if possible -- "least restrictive environment." In church, a light might substitute for the candle, a seat at the end of a row might be reserved, the mother could be ready to take the child for a short break, the girl could have a specially-trained buddy. There are lots of ways to make this work. I would say, give the girl ample time to grow into her role.

 

What worries me most is the pastor's attitude. It sounds as though he has very rigid ideas of behavior. It also sounds as though it will be a challenge for you, given the pastor's views. Perhaps you can find a more accepting church to use as a model -- not to send the girl to, but to get ideas from.

[SailorMom]

I'm in agreement with a lot of the other posters here on letting her do it.

If everyone in the church - including the pastor - knows this girl and knows she's special needs - I just don't see why it's a problem.

So what if she doesn't do it right? Is it really all that bad if - for one Sunday if not more - a kid comes up and hugs the pastor during a sermon? I'd think it was sweet.

[swellmomma]

You know, I'm not an overly religious person, I'm not a Christian at all, I don't go to church, etc., but this is one of those instances where I just kind of roll my eyes thinking, "And what do YOU think your Jesus would do in a situation like this?" Do YOU think he would say "oh no, better turn that special needs child away?"

 

Yeah, yeah. I get it. They're supposed to "model good behavior" blah blah blah. So are the adults. What's modeling good behavior? Hurting the feelings of a special needs child? Discriminating against her?

 

Do you not think that even if her behavior is less than perfect (and it will be) that the parents of the other children in the church, the ones being modeled to, can quietly explain to their offspring how she has some differences/special needs so she's less capable of sitting as quietly, walking as quietly, but look there, she's still a person, still deserving of being included, still deserving of being in the public eye and recognized and accepted.

 

Do you not think about how good it will make that child feel and that that's worth more than a silent walk up an aisle candle in hand?

 

That maybe the act of participating itself will give her a little extra self worth and happiness and teach her a little bit of self control?

 

I'm a little surprised a pastor of all people would consider casting her out.

 

Or maybe I'm not.

 

Give her the battery powered candle for safety purposes.

 

Look the other way a bit if she isn't as quiet, if she gives an extra hug (I mean sure address it but expect it's going to happen anyway because that's what some special needs kids do, mine included; she's 20 now and still does though not as much as when she was younger). Some people smile on this and find it heart warming that they are so affectionate and would find it heart warming that you (general you in charge at your church) were so gracious as to include her despite the fact that she wasn't as "perfect" as the other kids allowed in.

 

And for crying out loud, NO, do not talk to the non-custodial parent behind the mother's back.

 

 

:iagree::iagree:I am a Christian and agree 100% with what was written here. In fact the bolded would cause me to leave the church completely if the fact thepastor doesn't like children and my special needs kid was being discriminated against didn't. It is one thing to contact the dad for rpayer requests. It is another thing entirely to go behind the back of the custodial parent to the non-custodial parent to discuss the child. If someone from my church did that to me and went to my ex husband behind my back about my kid I would be fighting very hard to continue being a "good Christian". You fear the wrath of God, you will see it never more clearly than screwing around a mother and her kid.

 

As for how to let the child acolyte. Show my a neurotypical kid that is 100% perfectly behaved at all times during the age that they acolyte and then tell me this child can't do it. This child may *never* be able to behave in the way you want on their own, but why can't the child have a helper for this. Not just another child buddy but a 1-on-1 helper. An older teen from teh congregation maybe that will hold her hand so she walks at the right pace, and sits right with her so she doesn't jump up to hug the pastor etc.

[Alessandra]

I wanted to add one more thing. I know a girl who tended to run up to people and hug them. Her parents worked extremely hard to stop this behavior -- it may be cute in a little kid, not so much in a teenage girl. One thing the parents asked people to do, when their daughter started to run up for a hug, was to turn slightly sideways and stick out an elbow. I now do this and it really works. Then I can greet the girl by saying hello, shaking hands, etc.

[higginszoo]

At my church, at the service we frequent, we have two SN teens who serve as acolytes -- one with autism and one with Down Syndrome. For the first few years, they both had a buddy who they would always serve with -- an older, very experienced child who they could look up to and over to to model their behavior. This was the same technique that was used with my brother who had ADHD -- for the first year, an older boy who was a great acolyte took him under his wing, and my brother's behavior was 1000% better when he was up serving than it was when he was in the pew.

Things like the hugging are things she will need to work on, but again, if SHE is the one motivated, and it's explained that it's not appropriate while pastor is working during the service, she can probably be convinced to keep it to one hug before things get started.

It might just be something that everyone is going to have to take a leap of faith and try at some point, even if her behavior outside of the service and at children's church isn't up to what you want to see in the service. Though children may be SN, they still often recognize that there's a difference, and you may not be able to get them to see the point of changing behavior in other situations (thinking back to my brother, who would go whooping and running into the church (all the way to the vestry), but whose behavior would change from then, until he was back out after the service).

[Jeannie in NJ]

the first time that my special needs son was acolyte he was so nervous. One of the ushers started him out down the aisle and then the paster actually helped him with the candle. As ds was walking down the aisle, people was giving him the thumbs up . When ds finished he raced to where I was sitting yelling "Mommy I did it" and everyone started clapping for him. It was so sweet.

[TheTwinsMom1]

I agree with the other parents. I don't think they were saying hand her a flashlight. I think they were saying something more like this Battery Powered Candle instead of a real flame.

[NittanyJen]

Issues like this are why the UMC (United Methodist Church) motto is "Open minds, open hearts, open doors." yet even with that some of us have found it wise to craft special inclusion statements to emphasize that we not only do not discriminate, but actively welcome people of all abilities, races, sexual orientations, nationalities, and socioeconomic status to participate in our congregation and its various ministries.

 

We have had to do this because truthfully, the Christian Church does not have a terrific track record in this regard. That fact is not something to deny or sweep under the rug; it is something to deal with openly and change going forward.

 

United Methodists are not better than others and I do not mean that to be the tone of my post (tone is hard to discern from a message board posting-- just look at how badly mangled the message of some of my recent math postsbarebgetting mangled by other people LOL!!!). Methodism has its own checkered history along with everyone else-- even our own congregation has struggled to figure out how to get it right.

 

But I reiterate what I was getting at in my first post. Find a way to figure out her abilities, then find a way to help her succeed. Think of it as giving her a church IEP if you must. My son is 2E and super tall for his age, but super shy, so people have a really hard time figuring out what to expect from a 5' tall 8YO who doesn't want to speak but desperately wants to be a part of the group, is really smart, but has speech and motor delays, and other fun combos.

 

Gotta go... Kids need help...

[AK_Mom4]

We had a similiar situation at our church with a youngster who wanted to acolyte and also had some special challenges. To begin with, the acolyte trainer robed up and sat next to the boy to help him with the cues and with sitting still. We don't use real candles - we use the ones with the oil in them and the first couple of times, the trainer just didn't light this young man's candle. Now when the boy serves, he sits next to the crucifer (an older teen) who helps him remember what he is supposed to do and when.

 

Training and then mentoring with the older teen is what worked for us. We have one acolyte that uses a walker when she walks - she has an acolyte buddy (another kid or a deacon) who carries the lit candle for her. It all works out just fine.

[Mergath]

You know, I'm not an overly religious person, I'm not a Christian at all, I don't go to church, etc., but this is one of those instances where I just kind of roll my eyes thinking, "And what do YOU think your Jesus would do in a situation like this?" Do YOU think he would say "oh no, better turn that special needs child away?"

 

Yeah, yeah. I get it. They're supposed to "model good behavior" blah blah blah. So are the adults. What's modeling good behavior? Hurting the feelings of a special needs child? Discriminating against her?

 

Do you not think that even if her behavior is less than perfect (and it will be) that the parents of the other children in the church, the ones being modeled to, can quietly explain to their offspring how she has some differences/special needs so she's less capable of sitting as quietly, walking as quietly, but look there, she's still a person, still deserving of being included, still deserving of being in the public eye and recognized and accepted.

 

Do you not think about how good it will make that child feel and that that's worth more than a silent walk up an aisle candle in hand?

 

That maybe the act of participating itself will give her a little extra self worth and happiness and teach her a little bit of self control?

 

I'm a little surprised a pastor of all people would consider casting her out.

 

Or maybe I'm not.

 

Give her the battery powered candle for safety purposes.

 

Look the other way a bit if she isn't as quiet, if she gives an extra hug (I mean sure address it but expect it's going to happen anyway because that's what some special needs kids do, mine included; she's 20 now and still does though not as much as when she was younger). Some people smile on this and find it heart warming that they are so affectionate and would find it heart warming that you (general you in charge at your church) were so gracious as to include her despite the fact that she wasn't as "perfect" as the other kids allowed in.

 

And for crying out loud, NO, do not talk to the non-custodial parent behind the mother's back.

 

:iagree: Anyone who believes a SN kid should have to behave exactly like all the other kids before he or she can participate in church stuff is missing the entire point of church. Of course, I'm a Pagan, and we tend not to discriminate against people for things like that. Apparently, the op's church doesn't have that policy.

[lauranc]

You know, I'm not an overly religious person, I'm not a Christian at all, I don't go to church, etc., but this is one of those instances where I just kind of roll my eyes thinking, "And what do YOU think your Jesus would do in a situation like this?" Do YOU think he would say "oh no, better turn that special needs child away?"

 

Yeah, yeah. I get it. They're supposed to "model good behavior" blah blah blah. So are the adults. What's modeling good behavior? Hurting the feelings of a special needs child? Discriminating against her?

 

Do you not think that even if her behavior is less than perfect (and it will be) that the parents of the other children in the church, the ones being modeled to, can quietly explain to their offspring how she has some differences/special needs so she's less capable of sitting as quietly, walking as quietly, but look there, she's still a person, still deserving of being included, still deserving of being in the public eye and recognized and accepted.

 

Do you not think about how good it will make that child feel and that that's worth more than a silent walk up an aisle candle in hand?

 

I'm a little surprised a pastor of all people would consider casting her out.

 

Or maybe I'm not.

 

 

 

 

:iagree: Yes, yes, and 100% yes. Thanks for your post.

[MomatHWTK]

My son has a variety of issues, some sensory. It took me nearly a year to get him to want to come back to church after our acolyte trainer tried to convince him to wear the robe by telling him it was to honor Jesus. Well, he took that to mean that if he couldn't bring himself to wear the robe he didn't love Jesus and wasn't worthy.

 

And really, don't you suppose a parent of a child with special needs is already painfully aware of exactly how far behind socially their child is without having it pointed out to them? Maybe the children's church ladies could just put a huge dagger through her heart and pour some salt on the wound while they are at it.

 

Getting in touch with a non-custodial parent with potential anger issues to tell him that his ex is making waves that might be embarrassing? I don't think that sounds wise. Does he have any contact with the child at all? Was he able to accept the child's disabilities when in the marriage?

 

Is the ritual more important than the children being brought to God? What did Jesus say, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. He meant ALL men, even the ones who don't do it quite right.

 

I am sorry if I sound very angry above. I probably shouldn't be- need to get that plank out of my eye. ;) But navigating this world and advocating for a child who is different is difficult and often lonely. We all want to find a church that embraces our child and it is not always easy. Often it's not the whole church that is a problem, but one to two people. But those people and their actions can leave a very bad impression on us as parents and on our children, the typical and the special.

 

It may be that you are surrounded by folks who just don't get it and are trying to please everyone (pastor, other women at church). That puts you in a bad place. It leaves you to evaulate what you know of the situation and of God, to search your heart, and then to do what is right and righteous.

Edited April 9, 2012 by MomatHWTK

[momofkhm]

Some of you were very helpful offering ways to modify the service requirements and to you I am extremely thankful. The rest of you, sorry to say it, but you can stuff it.

 

I was looking for a "yes, tell her what you are looking for" or "no, keep it she doesn't need more on her plate". What I got was some blessing and I do appreciate those. Some of you are spewing at me at least part of the venom that someone else in your life deserves.

 

I am trying to work within a system where we have a congregation with only 2 SN children. We have one Down's adult as well. No, I don't expect things to go perfectly. I personally have worked with enough SN people to know that. I served as a volunteer teen buddy (as some of you called it at summer camp) where even though I was 15 at the time, I was the youngest one in the group of campers. Most were in their 30's. I've volunteered with my mom who worked with the severe and profound class of preschoolers while I was on break from college. She was their OT. So I do in fact have some experience working with the SN population. What I don't have experience with is working with their parents.

 

I enjoy my pastor, but he is human. His teaching in the pulpit s wonderful. But he does have some personality foibles. Who doesn't? I don't think he actually enjoys the hugs he gets from this little girl. He accepts them, not pushing her away but I he does not invite them. When I brought up to him that LC may be an acolyte, he pointed out that she needs to realize that there are times and places for things and there are times and places where things are not acceptable.

 

I have not been blessed with a sn child. Just like I have learned a lot about large families (more than 5 kids) on this board, I was hoping to gain insight into a sn family as well.

 

The dad has a great handle on LC's needs. I was more thinking that if I told the dad this is what we are working toward that he could help her when she goes to his church. I was NOT trying to make waves.

 

Again, many of you have been hurt by others in my position, I am in fact trying to help this girl be successful. I'm so sad you couldn't have given me the benefit of the doubt.

[Gingerbread Mama]

Could her mother accompany her through the ceremony to make sure she is monitored? I wouldn't want to put that responsibility on an older child.

 

 

 

:iagree: That was going to be my suggestion - let her participate, but recognize that she will need modifications. Is her mom *able* to redirect her? If so, could she sit beside or behind her to help with that? Or could she walk in with the acolytes and then sit elsewhere if that would work better? I don't think it's wrong for the priest to expect to give a sermon unhindered. Or perhaps HE isn't a hugger? Either way, I think that would be (and seems that it is) what the decision hinged on. That and the running.

 

If the mom is willing to accept that her child may not be participating in the same way as other children all the time, and is willing to try to modify so that her child may get the most from the experience, then I would try to work with her. This might be an alternative to the lit candle? I would think the priest might be able to understand the need to *not* let her handle real fire?

 

My youngest has some impulse control issues as well, I can see where he wouldn't fit the criteria of acolyte. I know it would make me sad for him to see him not participate where his peers were (and, if I am being honest, sad for me), but I would either want him to participate within his means (which might mean not doing everything) or not at all. I wouldn't want him to become a spectacle.

 

 

ETA: I don't think it would be *wrong* to talk to the girl's dad...but I do think you'd be asking for a fight with the mother. You also might be making the girl's homelife worse if the parents start sniping about it. In this instance, I'd deal with the mom only unless the dad contacts you himself.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Gingerbread Mama

[MomatHWTK]

Then to answer your question:

I think it would be rude and helpful. Rude to tell a parent what you think is wrong with their SN kid. Helpful in letting her know that she might want to look for a different church.

 

You've expressed your feeling that the animosity toward the solutions proposed by your clergy are misdirected. But, if you are wanting to find out how to "handle" SN parents, then the responses you received are probably a very good lesson in how the parents you speak to in person are going to feel.

Edited April 9, 2012 by MomatHWTK

[leeannpal]

Then to answer your question:

I think it would be rude and helpful. Rude to tell a parent what you think is wrong with their SN kid. Helpful in letting her know that she might want to look for a different church.

 

You've expressed your feeling that the animosity toward the solutions proposed by your clergy are misdirected. But, if you are wanting to find out how to "handle" SN parents, then the responses you received are probably a very good lesson in how the parents you speak to in person are going to feel.

 

I agree. I really feel bad for the little girl. There is no way I would continue going to your church after what you say the priest said and how he feels about kids. Oh, and I have been blessed by my sn daughter.

[Julie in CA]

The rest of you, sorry to say it, but you can stuff it.

Erm...yeah...that's the attitude that people are picking up on, and perhaps feeling that you're taking the action of spiritual leadership, without donning the grace required to deal with special needs kids. I'm sorry if you feel spewed upon, but sometimes we learn lessons here that we didn't even know we needed, kwim?

[itsheresomewhere]

That kind of attitude is why many of us with special needs kids have left the church. YOU see it as making her successful, yet really your just showing us that once again our kids are not normal/ok/typical.

[lauranc]

 

We, as a body, accept that things aren't perfect when he "works". And we will accept that things won't be perfect with LC either.

 

This is probably one place you went wrong in trying to understand how we, parents of SN kids, might 'feel'. Your words were rather condescending, and when you describe how things won't be 'perfect', but sigh.... you and your church body will accept it anyway--- it comes over as 'we don't like it, but guess we have to accept it'. Not exactly the best way to approach people... SN or not.

 

Best to look at yourself on this. I think you're coming at it in the wrong way. The mom wants her child to participate at their church in a way other kids are able to. If acolyte is a special job that requires training, then help the girl along. Only the mom and dad will know what the girl is actually capable of doing, and you telling them 'what she needs to work on' isn't going to really help. I have to kind of wonder why this is all such a big deal. But I don't know your church or its traditions...

 

oh, and...

 

This sort of sums up things for me, and how much you really want to gain insight into SN families....

 

The rest of you, sorry to say it, but you can stuff it.

 

.

[Shellers]

I think it would be rude and helpful. Rude to tell a parent what you think is wrong with their SN kid. Helpful in letting her know that she might want to look for a different church.

 

You've expressed your feeling that the animosity toward the solutions proposed by your clergy are misdirected. But, if you are wanting to find out how to "handle" SN parents, then the responses you received are probably a very good lesson in how the parents you speak to in person are going to feel.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

I agree. I really feel bad for the little girl. There is no way I would continue going to your church after what you say the priest said and how he feels about kids. Oh, and I have been blessed by my sn daughter.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

Erm...yeah...that's the attitude that people are picking up on, and perhaps feeling that you're taking the action of spiritual leadership, without donning the grace required to deal with special needs kids. I'm sorry if you feel spewed upon, but sometimes we learn lessons here that we didn't even know we needed, kwim?

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

That kind of attitude is why many of us with special needs kids have left the church. YOU see it as making her successful, yet really your just showing us that once again our kids are not normal/ok/typical.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[QueenCat]

time to look at the big picture. It's not a big deal in the scheme of things if she gets up and hugs the pastor. It just isn't. I'm sure Jesus wouldn't mind if she did it to him while he was preaching. Let her know that if she wants to go sit back down with Mom that she can do that at any time. She might just want to do the walking part. But for heavens sake, make allowances! It isn't a big deal, other than if you don't include her.

 

And do NOT talk to the non custodial parent about this.

 

"And what do YOU think your Jesus would do in a situation like this?" Do YOU think he would say "oh no, better turn that special needs child away?"

 

Yeah, yeah. I get it. They're supposed to "model good behavior" blah blah blah. So are the adults. What's modeling good behavior? Hurting the feelings of a special needs child? Discriminating against her?

 

Do you not think that even if her behavior is less than perfect (and it will be) that the parents of the other children in the church, the ones being modeled to, can quietly explain to their offspring how she has some differences/special needs so she's less capable of sitting as quietly, walking as quietly, but look there, she's still a person, still deserving of being included, still deserving of being in the public eye and recognized and accepted.

 

Do you not think about how good it will make that child feel and that that's worth more than a silent walk up an aisle candle in hand?

 

That maybe the act of participating itself will give her a little extra self worth and happiness and teach her a little bit of self control?

 

I'm a little surprised a pastor of all people would consider casting her out.

 

Or maybe I'm not.

 

Give her the battery powered candle for safety purposes.

 

 

 

Well said.... I expect my child with Aspergers to be able to participate, regardless of whether or not he does it the same way as the other children. Make it work for her, in her way. Do not make a set of rules she must meet before allowing her to participate. You would be setting her up for failure.

[QueenCat]

...

I agree with pretty much everything Nance said. Instead of working so hard to make this child fit some preconceived standard, evaluate her abilities and meet her where she is, then find a way to include her based on what she *can* do instead of focusing so much on how she doesn't measure up to the other kids.....

 

I will get off my soap box now, but this is a really sore subject with me. The church should be one of the most accepting and accommodating places and unfortunately the opposite is true more often than not. I would recommend finding a way for the child to participate within her abilities, as she is, with accommodations and a change in expectations. You can of course try to help her learn to perform similarly to the others, but be accepting I that doesn't happen.

 

 

 

Exactly!

[Denisemomof4]

You know, I'm not an overly religious person, I'm not a Christian at all, I don't go to church, etc., but this is one of those instances where I just kind of roll my eyes thinking, "And what do YOU think your Jesus would do in a situation like this?" Do YOU think he would say "oh no, better turn that special needs child away?"

 

Yeah, yeah. I get it. They're supposed to "model good behavior" blah blah blah. So are the adults. What's modeling good behavior? Hurting the feelings of a special needs child? Discriminating against her?

 

Do you not think that even if her behavior is less than perfect (and it will be) that the parents of the other children in the church, the ones being modeled to, can quietly explain to their offspring how she has some differences/special needs so she's less capable of sitting as quietly, walking as quietly, but look there, she's still a person, still deserving of being included, still deserving of being in the public eye and recognized and accepted.

 

Do you not think about how good it will make that child feel and that that's worth more than a silent walk up an aisle candle in hand?

 

That maybe the act of participating itself will give her a little extra self worth and happiness and teach her a little bit of self control?

 

I'm a little surprised a pastor of all people would consider casting her out.

 

Or maybe I'm not.

 

Give her the battery powered candle for safety purposes.

 

Look the other way a bit if she isn't as quiet, if she gives an extra hug (I mean sure address it but expect it's going to happen anyway because that's what some special needs kids do, mine included; she's 20 now and still does though not as much as when she was younger). Some people smile on this and find it heart warming that they are so affectionate and would find it heart warming that you (general you in charge at your church) were so gracious as to include her despite the fact that she wasn't as "perfect" as the other kids allowed in.

 

And for crying out loud, NO, do not talk to the non-custodial parent behind the mother's back.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I especially like the idea of the battery operated candle for her safety as well as everyone elses.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Denisemomof4

[pdalley]

Some of you were very helpful offering ways to modify the service requirements and to you I am extremely thankful. The rest of you, sorry to say it, but you can stuff it.

 

I was looking for a "yes, tell her what you are looking for" or "no, keep it she doesn't need more on her plate". What I got was some blessing and I do appreciate those. Some of you are spewing at me at least part of the venom that someone else in your life deserves.

 

I am trying to work within a system where we have a congregation with only 2 SN children. We have one Down's adult as well. No, I don't expect things to go perfectly. I personally have worked with enough SN people to know that. I served as a volunteer teen buddy (as some of you called it at summer camp) where even though I was 15 at the time, I was the youngest one in the group of campers. Most were in their 30's. I've volunteered with my mom who worked with the severe and profound class of preschoolers while I was on break from college. She was their OT. So I do in fact have some experience working with the SN population. What I don't have experience with is working with their parents.

 

I enjoy my pastor, but he is human. His teaching in the pulpit s wonderful. But he does have some personality foibles. Who doesn't? I don't think he actually enjoys the hugs he gets from this little girl. He accepts them, not pushing her away but I he does not invite them. When I brought up to him that LC may be an acolyte, he pointed out that she needs to realize that there are times and places for things and there are times and places where things are not acceptable.

 

I have not been blessed with a sn child. Just like I have learned a lot about large families (more than 5 kids) on this board, I was hoping to gain insight into a sn family as well.

 

The dad has a great handle on LC's needs. I was more thinking that if I told the dad this is what we are working toward that he could help her when she goes to his church. I was NOT trying to make waves.

 

Again, many of you have been hurt by others in my position, I am in fact trying to help this girl be successful. I'm so sad you couldn't have given me the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

Your attitude is not coming across well. You may have worked with SN kids but I live with three of them. Do not attempt to tell me what will and will not work with MY kids. No one except DH knows those kids the way I do.

 

If you went behind my back to a non custodial parent you would not have to worry about my daughter stepping foot in your church again. If he has such a great handle on her needs then why is he the non custodial parent? (I do not care to know - just throwing that out there)

 

Your attitude is just like those people who have caused us to leave the public school system and at times - the church. Working with SN kids means you have some idea. You don't live with one. Trust me - it's different. A lot different.

 

The church is made up of non perfect people who don't do things perfectly. If everyone did then it would be heaven - not church. That includes the kids. SN kids do learn there are times and places for things but generally not on the same time table as 'typical' kids.

 

The part that gets me is the idea of going to the noncustodial parent. I really have trouble thinking thats a good idea in any situation.

[NanceXToo]

The rest of us can stuff it? Really? You shouldn't talk to this girl's mother at all. You don't have the knowledge, the tact, the grace, or the empathy. Apparently that's commonplace in your church. I hope she finds a different one.

[fhjmom]

Ummm, wow!! Your response is really just confirmation of the idea of people that I was talking about - expecting people to conform to your ideals. I feel very sorry for those people in your church with special needs and their parents if this is the type of counsel they can expect to receive.= from their spiritual leaders.

 

The rest of us can stuff it? Really? You shouldn't talk to this girl's mother at all. You don't have the knowledge, the tact, the grace, or the empathy. Apparently that's commonplace in your church. I hope she finds a different one.

 

:iagree:

[Shellers]

The rest of us can stuff it? Really? You shouldn't talk to this girl's mother at all. You don't have the knowledge, the tact, the grace, or the empathy. Apparently that's commonplace in your church. I hope she finds a different one.

 

:iagree:

[mamatohaleybug]

Wow. What a thread.

 

I think it's just impossible to understand the POV of a parent of a child with special needs if you aren't one. I don't know how to help you with this situation because you don't seem to understand what people in similar situations FEEL. When your child is outside the norm it's just SO hard, in so many ways. The reason people call them special needs is because they have needs that are, well, special. They probably need modifications or accomodations in order to do things in a very rigid world. You need to work WITH the mother to figure out how to make this work. I bet she'll have some ideas. That's where I would start.

 

Being the mom of a kiddo with special needs brings blessings and a whole lot of extra struggles and heartache. Please be sensitive to the difficulties this mom already faces and help find a solution. I'm sure it would mean so much to her and the little girl.

[bettyandbob]

I can just stuff it?

 

I did not make any accusations about the op. I assumed she didn't really understand the needs of this particular child and that adaptations could be made. Apparently, she doesn't understand and doesn't want to understand.

 

A community that prides form over substance is seriously flawed. Apparently, the look of the processional is more important than inclusion in this church. IME, this is true in many religious communities. Apparently families with SN kiddos need to know their place and their place is just on the fringes of the community. This is the reason some many families with SN children leave churches. The church the OP goes to may have few persons with SN simply because it is so unwelcoming and the church members can't even see that.

 

This link is to a church that gets it. I don't think my beliefs completing match with this church's teaching, but I'm glad there is a church that gets it. http://mbctysons.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=100704

 

Don't ever, ever suggest you know anything about having a SN child when you don't have an SN child. I worked at a camp for persons with intellectual disabilities (mostly adults) as a teen. I taught adaptive aquatics as a teen. I worked in group homes as a college student. I taught special education. I did all these things before I had one child who is 2E and one child with intellectual disabilities. I had much more experience than you had and I can tell you I really knew nothing. One thing I have learned since having children is generally my family doesn't belong in church.

[Gentlemommy]

Can she walk with a buddy?

 

I second a lit flashlight idea.

 

Can allowances be made by all for her special personality? In our church we sometimes have a 'little wanderer' who moves up front to give our pastor a hug or announce their new toy or baby sister. Our loving pastor is great about knowing when to use a quick smile, a couple of words, just holding their hand, sometimes she'll walk the child around by the hand while continuing to speak, or her teen daughter will come capture the child and give a tour of the alter and take them back down front, etc. nobody minds a bit. With love, all are socialized into the congregation to the extent of their abilities.

 

 

I just want to say that this made me well up. What a beautiful picture of love and acceptance.:001_smile:

[pdalley]

 

Don't ever, ever suggest you know anything about having a SN child when you don't have an SN child. I worked at a camp for persons with intellectual disabilities (mostly adults) as a teen. I taught adaptive aquatics as a teen. I worked in group homes as a college student. I taught special education. I did all these things before I had one child who is 2E and one child with intellectual disabilities. I had much more experience than you had and I can tell you I really knew nothing. One thing I have learned since having children is generally my family doesn't belong in church.

 

:iagree: Especially with the bolded. One of my friend's has a son with Down Syndrome. I don't presume to know what it's like for her either.

[chiguirre]

I was looking for a "yes, tell her what you are looking for" or "no, keep it she doesn't need more on her plate".

 

I vote for "no, keep it she doesn't need more on her plate." You're the acolyte trainer, it's on your plate and you'll have to figure out how to make this happen. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised that she will modify her behavior to meet a new challenge and fit in. There's a big difference between walking in a herd of kids back from children's church versus walking in a procession with a candle surrounded by other older kids doing it quietly and reverently. OTOH, it's your job and you'll have to figure out how to help her be a success. Or you'll have to admit that your church is just not sn friendly and deal with the implications of that for your Christian witness.