How do we keep our dd from growing old before their time?

[scooterandrat]

In our society today, our dds do not seem to stand a chance at being a little girl anymore. Everyone (except their parent, of course) is pushing them to become teenagers too soon. My dd is 7 1/2, but is in the throes of love for one of the teen boy bands. She was introduced to them by the wonderful Disney channel which we don't watch here, but she saw while visiting her cousin. When I was young, I had a crush on Shawn Cassidy when he played in the Hardy Boys, but I don't think I was anything like this. What, as parents, do we do? Pull the plug on the tv and not allow outside media to come in? Sounds tempting. Not real practical. I have started to pray that we won't have much time for outside tv viewing once school starts. (I'm glad for Media Center on my 'puter so I can record The Closer!)

 

Any ideas anyone?

[SusanG]

I just don't see the harm in letting her have a "crush" or whatever she has on the band. She's very young, and it will pass on its own. If you make a big deal about it, or ban the music/shows, that might not have the desired outcome. My daughter is 7 and has had crushes on Drake Bell (of Drake and Josh) and Jack Black. Yes, Jack Black - can you imagine? We let her put little posters in her room and ooh and ah over them, and in a few months it passed. She's now got photos of her friends and her Pokemon drawings all over her walls.

 

I don't think a 7 year old having a crush on an actor or band member means they're growing up too fast - I think it's a normal part of being a girl, and as long as they have other interests, there's nothing to worry about.

[Soph the vet]

I am a "plug puller". Our dc are not allowed to watch anything on real TV except Mister Rogers. We have DVDs for them that are educational or for entertainment. Occassionally we'll all watch a ball game together. We don't have cable. Disney is lousy, IMO, for being a role model to children. When dc go to a friend's house it is to interact with one another, not to watch TV or play video games or be on the computer. My dc are allowed very short stints on American Girl or Lego websites. Having likeminded family and friends is really helpful. I don't want to sound like they are in a bubble, technologically maybe, but certainly not with real people from all walks/cultures of life. At their ages it is my responsibility to filter what goes in. My eldest really likes Toby Mac (Christian band) but even then if I find that she is "obsessing" and listening over and over, the CD disappears. They are used to getting things removed and we have lots of conversations about media and culture. They just do not need to grow up as fast as our world wants them to.:rant:

[Mamagistra]

Well, I tend to believe that the boys-on-the-brain "normality" of seducing our babes is firmly rooted in our consumerist society, the very thing that drives such crushes at tender ages. Look at the vast array of products that clearly market boys, couplehood, and tween sexuality to our youngest girls. It's only normal in McWorld, to my mind. :rolleyes:

 

That said, why isn't this stuff being marketed to boys with the same fervor? I'm no feminist, however, it peeves me to no end that our future women are pandered to by the likes of Hannah Montana, Bratz, et al, while our future men are primarily groomed by sport-worship, the rock-and-roll lifestyle, and the Abercrombie smooth, suburban hypersexual 12yo...oh wait...I guess that is equal-opportunity exploitation. Ugh.

 

I am perfectly content for my girls (and boy) to believe that crushes are what allosaurus did to the bones of its prey. :D I don't shelter them from those products that drive such silliness; they simply aren't interested, I guess. We talk about why these ideas and feelings are sold to children (and adults). Open dialog seems to keep the bulk of Consumerism 101 at bay in this household. I appreciate that, so far, my children aren't drawn to some artificial cash-gulping "emotion" to understand the importance of a future relationship between a man and a woman; they see dee-aitch and I and understand.

 

Zac Efron and his ilk need not apply. ;)

[Tarheel Heather]

Well, I tend to believe that the boys-on-the-brain "normality" of seducing our babes is firmly rooted in our consumerist society, the very thing that drives such crushes at tender ages. Look at the vast array of products that clearly market boys, couplehood, and tween sexuality to our youngest girls. It's only normal in McWorld, to my mind. :rolleyes:

 

That said, why isn't this stuff being marketed to boys with the same fervor? I'm no feminist, however, it peeves me to no end that our future women are pandered to by the likes of Hannah Montana, Bratz, et al, while our future men are primarily groomed by sport-worship, the rock-and-roll lifestyle, and the Abercrombie smooth, suburban hypersexual 12yo...oh wait...I guess that is equal-opportunity exploitation. Ugh.

 

I am perfectly content for my girls (and boy) to believe that crushes are what allosaurus did to the bones of its prey. :D I don't shelter them from those products that drive such silliness; they simply aren't interested, I guess. We talk about why these ideas and feelings are sold to children (and adults). Open dialog seems to keep the bulk of Consumerism 101 at bay in this household. I appreciate that, so far, my children aren't drawn to some artificial cash-gulping "emotion" to understand the importance of a future relationship between a man and a woman; they see dee-aitch and I and understand.

 

Zac Efron and his ilk need not apply. ;)

 

Very well said Debra!

 

I was very excited to find a clothing store that had appropriate attire for my 7 dd. I can't take the little versions of grown up clothes.

[TammyinTN]

I have to say living in Europe with only 10 channels for 3 years has been wonderful. We had limited viewing and didn't have commericals with all this junk. That said...we did get cable upon moving to the new apartment...I will not let him watch TV without one of us. He's 10 and there so much junk on there...last night my hubby stayed up until 2:30am watching tv with him..it was camping in the den night for the guys and only Dad was allowed to pick the channels..thank heavens for loads of sports!

 

After surviving 2 teenage daughters just barely..I'm inclined to believe in way more TV monitoring! They don't even want him to watch TV at all. That speaks volumes to me.

[Kelli in TN]

Well, I tend to believe that the boys-on-the-brain "normality" of seducing our babes is firmly rooted in our consumerist society, the very thing that drives such crushes at tender ages. Look at the vast array of products that clearly market boys, couplehood, and tween sexuality to our youngest girls. It's only normal in McWorld, to my mind. :rolleyes:

 

That said, why isn't this stuff being marketed to boys with the same fervor? I'm no feminist, however, it peeves me to no end that our future women are pandered to by the likes of Hannah Montana, Bratz, et al, while our future men are primarily groomed by sport-worship, the rock-and-roll lifestyle, and the Abercrombie smooth, suburban hypersexual 12yo...oh wait...I guess that is equal-opportunity exploitation. Ugh.

 

I am perfectly content for my girls (and boy) to believe that crushes are what allosaurus did to the bones of its prey. :D I don't shelter them from those products that drive such silliness; they simply aren't interested, I guess. We talk about why these ideas and feelings are sold to children (and adults). Open dialog seems to keep the bulk of Consumerism 101 at bay in this household. I appreciate that, so far, my children aren't drawn to some artificial cash-gulping "emotion" to understand the importance of a future relationship between a man and a woman; they see dee-aitch and I and understand.

 

Zac Efron and his ilk need not apply. ;)

 

 

Ironically, I just had a talk about this with my dd who loves all things Disney. She is at the lower end of the "tweeny bopper" scale in comparison to her friends at church, but still she is most assuredly there. So I allow the nonsense but she and I have talks about the silliness and inappropriateness of crushes and of dating when you are not of a marriageable age.

 

It probably does not hurt my cause for her to have witnessed her big sister fall in love, fight and break up several times, make up and and get engaged to, and break off the engagement with a young man that we all adored and accepted as family. We all got hurt, we all cried, I think she knows that falling in love too young does not usually work out. We don't make a big deal of it, but it is there as a lesson.

 

The biggest thing is to talk, talk, talk. And don't try too hard to hold them back from normal growing up. I did that with my oldest. It created extra stress that did not have to be there.

[scooterandrat]

I don't know if anyone out there has read Dave Kapelian's (?-I think that's the author's name-I don't have it here near me) book "The Marketing of Evil". It had a chapter that really opened my eyes concerning marketing that is specifically targeted toward American teenagers and the lengths that they go to in order to sell the next big thing. The book itself is very well written, but reminded me I need to be on my guard where my family is concerned. I can't afford to get comfortable and think everything is ok just bc our lives are centered around church and school. This is my first year back to homeschool since my son was in 1st. He has gone to a public school for the last 3 years. And I am so excited to bring them back home and get back to the business of raising our children. I feel like I've been in a bubble these last 3 years, barely getting them to school, home, fed, homework and to bed. With too much tv viewing to anesthetize them. Sorry for the rant. Too much pent up energy, I suppose.

[scooterandrat]

And where is the age appropriate shopping store for the younger girls? I want to go!!!

[at the beach]

Well, I tend to believe that the boys-on-the-brain "normality" of seducing our babes is firmly rooted in our consumerist society, the very thing that drives such crushes at tender ages. Look at the vast array of products that clearly market boys, couplehood, and tween sexuality to our youngest girls. It's only normal in McWorld, to my mind. :rolleyes:

 

That said, why isn't this stuff being marketed to boys with the same fervor? I'm no feminist, however, it peeves me to no end that our future women are pandered to by the likes of Hannah Montana, Bratz, et al, while our future men are primarily groomed by sport-worship, the rock-and-roll lifestyle, and the Abercrombie smooth, suburban hypersexual 12yo...oh wait...I guess that is equal-opportunity exploitation. Ugh.

 

I am perfectly content for my girls (and boy) to believe that crushes are what allosaurus did to the bones of its prey. :D I don't shelter them from those products that drive such silliness; they simply aren't interested, I guess. We talk about why these ideas and feelings are sold to children (and adults). Open dialog seems to keep the bulk of Consumerism 101 at bay in this household. I appreciate that, so far, my children aren't drawn to some artificial cash-gulping "emotion" to understand the importance of a future relationship between a man and a woman; they see dee-aitch and I and understand.

 

Zac Efron and his ilk need not apply. ;)

 

:iagree: I have three daughters. This is something that has always concerned me. Somehow my oldest was immune to all these things. She still doesn't wear make-up and she's 19. My 11 and 9 yo are also not into dressing suggestively, nor do they listen to most of the music out there. I am SO GLAD they are not in school. You would not believe what girls are like at very young ages. Or actually, you all probably would. My niece had an 8th b-day party. Heavens! The girls were gyrating while dancing, literally showing themselves off in a suggestive way. How can one be suggestive at 8? :001_huh: Scary, indeed. Honestly, I am a very laid back person. Liberal minded for the most part, but this is one thing that drives me nuts, the sexualization of our young children. I have, a few years ago, even told my girls they should avoid nail polish and other such stuff. My 11 yo is recently shaving her underarms because she recently started growing hair under them (she swims and dances) but isn't shaving her legs. I find that shaving on young girls is also another way of sexualizing young girls. Sorry, I'll probably get blasted for saying that, but that's my opinion on it. Perhaps my viewpoints have gotten radical lately. I dunno. I never used to be so, well, opinionated about this stuff. Oh, and another thing that irks me are these school dances for elementary aged children. Sheesh. Have them acting like couples at 10 or 11? Another example of babying kids in some respect yet letting them pretend at adulthood in others. Yuck.

 

Anita

[In The Great White North]

And where is the age appropriate shopping store for the younger girls? I want to go!!!LLBean

[Jenny in Atl]

I'm not sure crushes are something unnatural... if it's they way I understand them to be. It's very natural for really young kids to have crushes (but it's in no way sexual). My dd had an awful crush on a fellow playmate at five. I honestly don't think he knew girls even existed. She did not want to kiss him or even be too close. She just knew she was going to marry him someday. It lasted all of about three months, and them he was just another annoying kid in her class.

 

You could take away all the nasty t.v., movies, and any other commercial media from your kids and they will still begin to notice the difference between the sexes at a very young age. It's what you teach them to do about this, that impacts how they will behave when the hormones start to kick in too soon for many of us.

 

I agree, that most of the clothing for young girls is silly as is much of the fashions for grown women. Maybe if more of us did not buy it, there would be more choice?

[Denisemomof4]

being homeschooled is a WONDERFUL start. My oldest daughter, 8, wasn't wordly until she went to PS for 1.5 years. My sons were homeschooled much longer and weren't wordly until they also went to PS, one in 9th and one in 5th.

 

For my girls, however, it's SO easy! They LOVE Shirley Temple dvd's, old movies, etc. They do watch SpongeBob, which I *HATE* because I can't stand the sound of his voice, let alone someone raking in millions over the concept of a talking sponge! (remember the PET ROCK?!) But, I've never watched it. Anyway, we're very selective of what they watch at home. What they're exposed to outside the home on play dates doesn't last too long (Hannah Montanah being one) becuase they come home to what they've learned to love. We have IPods, TONS of movies, etc. They don't even realize they're different from their friends who are worldly. It's easier being so far out in the country that we don't get cable :D but we still do have satellite.

 

I've chosen this because I can see how early girls are maturing these days. Our kids only have ONE childhood and I think it's perfectly find letting it last as long as possible. In fact I consider it my personal responsibility to have them cherish it as long as possible. I have regrets about putting my sons into PS and won't do the same for my daughters. Sheltering them and keeping them innocent and pure through their school years is my desire and goal!

 

This from a mom who's BTDT.

 

:001_smile:

 

Denise

[Brigitte]

I often get comments from people how sweet and innocent my girls still are at the ripe old age of 6, almost 7 (clearly these are not people who see them at home fighting). When I compare my girls to the other little girls on campus who are the same age, I can't believe how "grown-up" these other girls act compared to mine. To be honest, I attribute the difference largely to the fact that my girls do not watch TV. They are allowed to watch operas, ballets, Muzzy, and some documentaries, but that is it. Much of television that is targeted to kids just is not of value, imho. Since we home school and are very selective about who my girls will play with, we have been able to keep them from the influences that advance girls beyond their years.

 

It is not just the sexualization that I have observed in their friends (like the 5 y.o. girl doing the booty dance in front of the neighbors house), but also the attitude, sassy way of talking, and "mean girl" behavior that I want to keep them from and the one common denominator has been the TV or being best friends with someone who is wrapped up in all the TV offerings.

 

I do think there are people out there who can be exposed to all of it and come out unscathed, but I think the majority of us (people in general) are significantly influenced by the age inappropriate content after prolonged exposure. It just seems normal.

 

Wow, this was a rambling mess, but so is my head right now. EEK!

[titianmom]

I had written a long response, but the machine logged me out it was soooo long. I'll keep this one brief:

 

This subj is near and dear to my heart. What is the one thing that keeps me motivated to try hard and do the right thing? My child doesn't belong to me, she belongs to God. I'm just the steward. He WILL hold me accountable for what I allow her to do as far as compromising with the world.

 

Therefore, I have a very very hard time with the current dress standards with skin-tight jeans and shirts and cleavage, tween magazines (loathe them; aren't allowed in the house and she knows why--we've gone over one together.), the silly, suggestive and/or unrealistic portrayal of life in general such as HS Musical and other modern Disney stuff ,etc.

 

We started as early as she started noticing this stuff, to talk regularly about these issues, and she agrees with me that we should watch what we wear and read and do. I've explained to her that guys are motivated by what they see, etc. I've told her that God expects holiness, and learning how to kiss a guy (as taught in one tween magazine) is compromise, and she agrees with me.

 

She's 11 going on 20 in her mind. She thinks I'm strict sometimes, but then hugs me and says, "thanks, mom" at other times.

 

I know Parenting is the hardest job in the world, and Christian parenting is even harder. But we've had 3 or 4 teen pregnancies in our CHURCH families over the last 4-5 years, and early divorces by some who jumped into marriage so that the baby can have a name, etc. It is soooo sad. We have got to try harder!

 

Kim

NOTE: I know that at about 8ish, girls start exploring their sexuality and it is quite normal for them to talk about guys and differences and their own bodies, etc. It's a good and natural thing--they're growing up. But that is when they need to know *how* to grow up so that they *stay* healthy and on course. :) The world is not a very good teacher, is it?

[scooterandrat]

Thanks for that. And I agree, too, with the one who said we are stewards of our children. We will be held accountable for how we teach and train them. I've had multiple conversations with my ds, 9 1/2, about the movies that are coming out today with the inappropriate humor. I don't know what you think about Eph. 5:4 and what it says about "coarse jesting", but I think it definitely applies to some of todays kids' movies.

[titianmom]

I agree. It's a balance, though. They hear it on the streets. With me, it depends on the content of the show. If it is in a show that has some quality teaching we discuss it but watch. If it is just rubbish, we pass on it. :)

 

I'm realistic. I know I can put her in the closet until she's 21. But I can sit and talk and say, 'this is wrong, and here's why..'

 

My husband jokes sometimes, but he's serious really when he points to a guy with all black on, makeup, jewelry, etc and says, "See that?" My daughter smiles and says, "Yeah". Dad says, "Don't bring that home with you..."

 

:)

 

Take care,

Kim

[Erica in PA]

I do think limiting that sort of media is helpful. It's not possible to avoid it 100%, but I think the less they're exposed to the teen-bopper type shows and movies, the less you have to deal with this sort of thing. Also, the kids that your kids interact with play a role in these things too. The public schooled kids that my kids play with in our neighborhood are WAY more into crushes and other more adult things than are the homeschooled kids we know. I have frequently had to do damage control with my 5 yod regarding this topic after she's played with the girls in our neighborhood. "Mommy, Sierra said that she thinks Nathan is sooooo HOT!!" Not a sentence I like to hear from my 5 yo. :glare: That doesn't mean that I don't allow her to play with kids with different values, but I do limit the time and also make sure to discuss anything she's heard that differs from our values.

 

I definitely don't think it's just a natural thing for girls growing up. It's one thing to have a fleeting thought or feel admiration for a boy, it's another for a very young girl to spend time and energy dwelling on a boy and talking about him, etc. (I'm talking very young here-- not a 11-12-13 year old. Those feelings are natural, and different from what I think it being discussed here.)

 

Overall, I'd say it's difficult to avoid in today's society, but it's definitely possible to minimize the influence.

 

Erica

[nmoira]

 

What, as parents, do we do? Pull the plug on the tv and not allow outside media to come in?

We've chosen to pull the cable plug, and we don't find it at all impractical. The only thing for which our TV is used is watching DVD's. While I find the content of most "child friendly" fare vapid or worse, it's the commercials we were most seeking to avoid -- though even when I was a kid it was difficult to tell the difference between the two. We're also fortunate to live in an area in which most of the other children are in the same boat so we don't have to worry about outside exposure.

[Kelli in TN]

I'm not sure crushes are something unnatural... if it's they way I understand them to be. It's very natural for really young kids to have crushes (but it's in no way sexual).

 

 

 

I cannot disagree with this. If you had said this when my oldest daughter was about 11 I would have argued with you. I really believed to even have those stirrings of emotion was somehow evil. :banghead: Aren't y'all glad you didn't have to share a message board with me back then?

 

I wish I could go back in time and face that first crush with her. I would have advised her to just be friends and certainly to try to control her giggly impulses around him, but I would have painted her feelings as being very normal and sure sign that she was growing up and the times they were a'changin'.

 

I also would not have forced her to dress like a dork and I would have let her shave her legs as soon as she was embarrassed. But that is another story for another day.

[Kelli in TN]

I'm realistic. I know I can put her in the closet until she's 21. But I can sit and talk and say, 'this is wrong, and here's why..'

 

 

 

 

I agree with this.

[talexand]

My 4 yr old dd heard the word "hot" from another 4 yr old girl at my ds's Taekwondo class. Her friend said my dd's stuffed animal doggy looked "hot" with her pink sweater and sunglasses on. Dd was confused about it but finally decided it was because the dog was wearing a sweater. I breathed a sigh of relief. I really didn't want that to be part of my dd's vocabulary at 4 years old.

[Erica in PA]

My 4 yr old dd heard the word "hot" from another 4 yr old girl at my ds's Taekwondo class. Her friend said my dd's stuffed animal doggy looked "hot" with her pink sweater and sunglasses on. Dd was confused about it but finally decided it was because the dog was wearing a sweater. I breathed a sigh of relief. I really didn't want that to be part of my dd's vocabulary at 4 years old.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[Mamagistra]

The biggest thing is to talk, talk, talk. And don't try too hard to hold them back from normal growing up. I did that with my oldest. It created extra stress that did not have to be there.

 

:iagree: Exactly. :001_smile:

[Jean in Newcastle]

A "crush" at that age can be simply idolizing/looking up to someone who is older. My dd did this with some of her older brother's friends. What bothered me was when people started to tease about her 'boyfriends' etc. I know I got some strange looks but I asked friends not to do that.

 

When dd started to have an imaginary boyfriend I told her that I did not want her playing like that. I thought long and hard about it - after all I let her pretend to be a mommy! and to play house with an imaginary husband! But my conclusion was that in our culture the "mommy and daddy" roles are not sexualized. But the "boyfriend/girlfriend" roles are. Her pretend play with her imaginary boyfriend was all about "kissing" and "holding hands" - nothing really bad but not what I wanted her thinking about either.

[ChristusG]

This is one of my main concerns with having girls. Everything is targeted to make them grow up faster. I cannot stand the media.

 

The only shows my 4 year old is allowed to watch (my other DD is only one and too young for TV) are the shows that we have DVR'ed. I know that a lot of girls her age are already into things like Hannah Montana....my DD has no clue who she is.

 

I can already see that I'm going to have a difficult time keeping my DD's young though. I have a 14 year old sister and my girls LOVE their aunt. Of course, she's all about the boyfriend (my girls see her sitting on her boyfriends lap, holding hands, etc....this is out of my control, I've talked to my parents about it), the make-up, the music/TV/computer, "fashionable" clothes (they show too much in my opinion). DD already has her own purse she likes to carry around.

 

I just really want them to stay young for as long as possible. They have plenty of time to be an adult. I cannot stand when people point out worldly things to my kids. Such as the other day, my DD hurt her finger....her middle finger.....and she was holding it up, with all the other fingers down, and showing me that she hurt it. Of course, my 12 year old nephew freaks out and starts saying "Dont do that! Put it down! Aunt Christy, could you tell her that what she is doing is bad???" No, I'm not going to tell her that. The gesture is not bad....the intent behind it is bad and my little 4 year old girl is clueless about it and doesnt need to know that it can be bad. She's just showing me her finger. But anyways....

 

And I cant stand that the little girls department has things like halter tops, terribly short shorts, etc. And Bratz dolls are out of the question for my kids. Ugh....it's just endless!

[TXMomof4]

My 4 yr old dd heard the word "hot" from another 4 yr old girl at my ds's Taekwondo class. Her friend said my dd's stuffed animal doggy looked "hot" with her pink sweater and sunglasses on. Dd was confused about it but finally decided it was because the dog was wearing a sweater. I breathed a sigh of relief. I really didn't want that to be part of my dd's vocabulary at 4 years old.

 

 

My 5 yo asked me if she could say I was hot when I was trying on evening dresses. I told her that was fine.

But only Mommy is allowed to be hot.

[titianmom]

Also, the kids that your kids interact with play a role in these things too. The public schooled kids that my kids play with in our neighborhood are WAY more into crushes and other more adult things than are the homeschooled kids we know. ... it's another for a very young girl to spend time and energy dwelling on a boy and talking about him, etc. (I'm talking very young here-- not a 11-12-13 year old. Those feelings are natural, and different from what I think it being discussed here.)

 

Overall, I'd say it's difficult to avoid in today's society, but it's definitely possible to minimize the influence.

 

Erica

 

Agreed. I know what you mean about the public school friends. I feel for these kids. I explained to my daughter that these kids are under a lot of pressure from their peers (and even the faculty at times! A dance for the 5th graders? Come on!) to behave this way. They get a positive response when they talk to each other about boys so the behavior is reinforced. They feel accepted when they do this. Probably 99% of them don't even know what the responsibility is to love and to have a boyfriend, etc. I said this to my girl, also. I explained to her that at this age, no one is ready to even discuss dating and the rest.

 

Jokingly, I tell her the question you should ask about a boy is, does he have an education, a car, and a job and is he responsible? She just laughs because boys her age don't even shave yet, LOL. If you get a "no" to most of these questions, I say, then he isn't ready to be a potential mate so don't bother, LOL. Just be friends ;).

 

Personally I firmly believe that for each of our kids, God has someone special already picked out. We need to trust God to bring him/her along at the right time...I told this to all of my girls in Sunday School, too. They looked at me weird, but that was how I met my husband, and I believe it for all of God's young people.

 

You can trust God. It really isn't up to us to find our own mates! Eventually the kids listen, but esp for the public school kids and often even churched kids, it is a very foreign concept, unfortunately. We need to teach this more in the church!

 

 

:)

 

Kim

[ereks mom]

IMO, she looks much older than 13, and most other people tell her that as well:

 

 

Most of her friends, as well as her same-age female cousins, are boy-crazy! So far, EK tells me how ridiculous it is that these kids are talking about "going out", meaning "being boyfiend & girlfriend" when they are 13-14 years old. But from early on (7 or 8yo), she has been fascinated with the idea of romance. (For example, she would play that her Barbies were going on dates.) The only thing I know to do is to keep the lines of communication open, and encourage her not to give her heart away until she meets "the right one".

[Plaid Dad]

Pull the plug on the tv and not allow outside media to come in? Sounds tempting. Not real practical.

 

I haven't read any of the other responses, but I have to ask: Why not? We don't have a TV, and all our friends and family know it. Most homeschooling families in our area don't watch TV either, even if they own a set. If our dd is at someone's house where there is television, we let them know that dd does not have permission to watch; she's there to play with the kids, anyway, not veg out in front of a screen. The same goes for computers and video games. Dd didn't even see a video until she was almost 6, and she's never been to a movie theater (both because we can't control what she sees and because of her sensory issues).

 

I dunno. This just isn't a big deal for us, anymore than dd's being a vegetarian is. We tell people; they respect it. Case closed.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I don't know what the answer REALLY is. My daughter is just not into "all that" even at 15. Part of that is her personally no doubt. Part is her convictions. But I think it helps that I wouldn't dream of letting my kids watch Disney or any real amount of tv, especially at 7 (sorry that sounds judgmental; just how I truly believe). They don't get nearly as much of the marketing if they aren't watching tv, shopping at stores that have writing on the butts of clothes, spending way too much time with peers that do these things, etc.

 

We also talked....and talked...

 

I will also say that what things did come up, we didn't freak out about. My daughter shaved when she wanted to....and gave that up shortly. My daughter played with make-up when she was 9...and gave that up shortly. She wasn't trying to do things because some friend was or society. She just went through periods of being like mom, trying things out, etc. And they didn't last long. And at 15, she couldn't care less (though I wish she'd shave occasionally!).

 

I also allowed, to some degree, complete childishness. My daughter drew pictures and had them up on the wall forever (some are still up in her own room). She would do crazy hairstyles that drove me nuts, but at least it wasn't trying to be grown up. She had unique dressing combinations well beyond the preschool years. I'd rather deal with a child a little "backwards" in those ways than one driven by pop culture.

 

Of course, we never had anything stupid like "4th grade dance" or the like.

 

Anyway, limitations, being relaxed, discussing things....and of course personality all worked here....

[amy g.]

I really think the answer is a combination of homeschooling, and no TV, no commercials.

 

I'm really bummed that I can't rep Debra for her excellent post.

 

I have two non boy crazy, non clothes crazy, non show crazy girls. They are not adding to the coffers of the clothing or entertainment industries, therefore out society is never going to support or value raising children this way.

 

I know that I am extreme, but I think of the Disney Channel, Cartoon Network, hanging at the mall, MTV and the rest of our popular culture as similar to the idols of the Old Testament. For my family, there is no gray area. We won't allow our children to worship there.

 

There is a huge push for Christian parents to sacrifice our children at the altar of materialism. I understand why it seems impossible to resist, but it can be done.

[nmoira]

 

There is a huge push for Christian parents to sacrifice our children at the altar of materialism. I understand why it seems impossible to resist, but it can be done.

I don't think this is a Christian or non-Christian issue. :)

[amy g.]

You are COMPLETELY right!

 

Because I am a Christian, I think of the problem in those terms.

 

I have an Agnostic friend whose children are exposed to less commercialism than my own. She raises her children that way because it is healthier, or more natural.

 

I raise my children this way because I see it as a commandment to keep them separate from idolatry.

 

I was trying to explain why I don't make exceptions like letting my kids watch TV when they spend the night with friends. If my MIL turns on the news at her house, I take my kids outside to play.

 

My mention of Christianity was only to explain why the issue is black and white in my family.

[StephanieZ]

TV = BAD IMHO. ;)

 

Since our dc were born, we've never had TV. We do *have* a TV/DVD/VCR for the movies we rent or buy for them. The friends whose homes they visit know well enough that we don't "do TV" and so the moms tend to plan a "kid" movie for the kids if they want to entertain them that way.

 

Our 3 dc are innocents. My theory has been to shelter them from the coarseness and ugliness of the world until they are old and strong enough to learn about it with a foundation of beauty and innocence in their hearts instead of a foundation influenced by that crud. This is *totally achievable* if you're homeschooling. You just have to be willing to not have TV access and to supervise internet, etc.

 

I have to *intentionally* introduce adult topics as I think they "need to know". None of them yet even understand the mechanics of the s*x act, even though they do know the baby process, etc. (I am working up to making sure dd11 understands more. . . with books, etc. I *will* make sure she *gets it* before age 12) They don't even know what most crimes are. The other day something came up: my 9yo read about "kidnapping" in a Hardy Boys book and asked what that was. I explained. I think we are fortunate that my dc are growing up without all that knowledge of ugliness deeply ingrained in their little minds before they're even old enough to understand (are we ever?).

 

Anyhow, what I do is:

 

* no TV access

* internet use is personally and constantly supervised, with "filters/security settings" as an aid but not relied on. The kids don't even know about social networking sites, etc. Only used for research, games, etc.

* Carefully chosen friends, esp WRT sleepovers or away-playdates. (I prefer to host playdates and so make my home very kid friendly.)

* Carefully chosen DVDs, etc.

* Carefully chosen books, etc. only kid magazines are nature ones

 

Let me say that my dc don't even *know about* most of the things people worry about. They surely don't *miss* anything b/c this home is the only home they've known and if I do say so, it is a pretty happy one. We never had to pull the plug b/c we've never had TV. . .

 

I think having no TV is probably the biggest gift we've given our dc, the best thing we've done as parents. Yes, it is a personal "sacrafice" but noone loses --- TV is such a time waster for all of us and so ugly. When we "have TV" for our month at the beach in October, I watch a lot of junk at night after the kids are in bed. (We never turn it on during the day at all except for a weather channel check or on a very occasional basis a kid movie on HBO or whatever.) Every year TV is dramatically stupider, coarser and more boring. The ads alone make me cringe to think of my dc watching it. The local news is so shocking and tramatic that I can't imagine the damage it does to tender young hearts. . . I thank God every time that my kids are growing up without that poison, because that surely is what it is.

[titianmom]

No TV or very little at the most, it seems by the threads I'm reading ;)

 

I think the key is to start young with them and then it doesn't become an issue.

 

We have a TV, but we don't watch regular TV and we don't have cable. Both, IMHO, have become so bad that on the rare occasions when I watch even a commercial, I'm amazed at how bad it has gotten. But after not watching for a while, the "desensitizing " wears off and you are sensitive to the state things are in these days.

 

And the media, esp TV is desensitizing. Those in church that watch their programs faithfully just look at me like I'm nuts when I say I can't handle TV any more. But they watch it all the time and to them it isn't a big deal.

 

But anything we do that isn't the best, (okay, sin) can have a desensitizing effect on us. That's the nature of the beast.

 

Kim

[Joanne]

What a heartfelt, articulate, compelling and well written thread that expresses love, care, intentionalilty and concern. :grouphug::001_smile::)

 

I have personally taken a different approach, for a variety of reasons. One is that due to divorce/visitation, I do not have control or say every other weekend. Even if I wanted to severely limit, ban or restrict say....the Disney Channel - I could not. Therefore, I have chosen to be familiar with the programming, the basics on the "stars" and other information so that I can talk through it all with my kids.

 

Related to that is I feel that my kids are at risk for homeschooling to be challenged if they move too far on the "weird" scale. There are people in their lives who have the power to rock the boat who value popular as defined by cultural standards, value "cool" and might very well want to change things.

 

Also, though, *I* value the process of sharing in pop culture that has emerged during the years of parenting school aged kids. The websites, the music, some of the TV and movies have been a shared experience that I have truly cherished.

 

Oh, did I mention that Shaun Cassidy was my first concert! :lol::D My (much) older sister claims to still have a headache from taking me. :tongue_smilie:

 

I do think that the energy, passion, giggly focus that develops is organic and normal. I'm not suggesting all kids go through it, but I do think it is normal for kids when it comes up. I remember having a similar reaction to an older female who, at the time, represented all things "big girl" when I was nearing double digits.

 

My dd's first crush was for an actual kid. We talked about the "energy in her body" and how it was exciting, fun and scary. And that it was there because of God's design but until she was old enough and ready, we needed to learn how to manage that energy. I shared, too, that is how I felt when I began dating my husband. (And, incidentally, I shared that it was how I felt when I dated her Dad - it's important for them to know we were - once - thrilled with each other and over them as part of "us").

 

Anyway, I admire many of the posts and approaches in this thread. I'd treat a *hyperfocus* of a celebrity the same way I'd treat it for a show, music, food or website; a chance to moderate or, if not successful, cold turkey.

 

I have 3 quite "hip", contempory, pop culture literate Christian kids.

[Tracey in TX]

Having three DDs and a former teenage female exchange student, I have thought this topic over often. WHY is my first DD boy crazy, a clothes horse, massively consumer driven while the others could take or leave it all? I parent the same, and we have more disposable income to spend on 'stuff' than when DD1 was a baby.

 

Children are predisposed to certain behaviors due to genetics. One girlie-girl and all it represents and two cutesy tomboys.

[Mommy22alyns]

This is one of my main concerns with having girls. Everything is targeted to make them grow up faster. I cannot stand the media.

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

We have satellite, and I let the girls watch TV. But they watch carefully screened shows. 99.9% of what they watch has been TiVOed so we fast-forward through commercials. What they watch has some value to it. Some shows just don't have a "point" IMO, and I don't see a reason to let them watch it. I am always very careful about anything they're exposed to - internet, books, magazines, TV/movies (and that includes what DH and I watch - making sure that basically the girls aren't around to absorb any of it).

 

I was honestly shocked to find out that a lot of girls Becca's age are into Hannah Montana. :confused:

 

The culture thing, the pressures of growing up too fast... that's another large reason we chose homeschooling.

[Jenny in Atl]

I'm one of the odd ones here... I do limit t.v. but not because of adult content but for the lack of quality. Both my dd's have been exposed to a lot of adult content, but in the context of good content (something that has real meaning, art, story, history). I was raised in a home with two artist (one an ad man... gasp) so movies, art, music was all around. But, it was never w/o context and discussion. I was never left alone to watch something I might not fully grasp. Neighbors of ours thought my parents were awful to have nude sketches on the walls, or that I was allowed to listen to Janice Joplin and the Rolling Stones as a young child, taken to adult plays in the city. I was far more "worldly" than their kids, yet I was uninterested in drugs, sex, and other activities that many of their children quickly fell pray to. All of the fascination and mystery had been removed for me.

 

I'm raising my dd's in much the same way. Both have seen live births, both have known about the birds and the bees since they were very young. We talk frankly about drugs, sex, and what actions can cause harm to us and others. I let both read bks and watch movies, many of you would find either too adult or even offensive. But, I insist that they are of good quality. No Hanna Montana or other brainless drivel is allowed in this house. It's kinda like my mom who never allowed Wonder Bread in our home. The first time I ate it, I could not see it's appeal, though it did make great glue balls to throw at friends. :lol:

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that without that connection, the talking, the being there for them (explaining), you can isolate your kids all you want, but when the day comes that they are exposed to all this stuff.... will they be ready? I saw it many times with friends from very strict homes, some made it through all the haze, but many did not.

[titianmom]

What I look at, also, is how kids lived and coped back in, say, Bible times. Young girls were married off very early and that took care of the problem. ;>

 

Even as late as the turn of the century girls married early in some parts. It is only recently that culture dictates marriage no earlier than, say, 19ish. (Some might argue the age, but I shoot around there for "early".)

 

Therefore, the hormones weren't an issue. Getting married shortly after puberty solved all of that. And the kids lived near/with their parents and learned quite early what life was all about, and was forced rather early to care for elderly parents.

 

Something to think about, no? I'm not suggesting we all turn into the beverly hillbillies, but it makes you wonder, doesn't it?

 

Also, they've proven that puberty is showing up much earlier than in the past, however, so that could be a major factor. They think it may be related to the hormones, etc that we eat.

 

Kim

[at the beach]

I'm one of the odd ones here... I do limit t.v. but not because of adult content but for the lack of quality. Both my dd's have been exposed to a lot of adult content, but in the context of good content (something that has real meaning, art, story, history). I was raised in a home with two artist (one an ad man... gasp) so movies, art, music was all around. But, it was never w/o context and discussion. I was never left alone to watch something I might not fully grasp. Neighbors of ours thought my parents were awful to have nude sketches on the walls, or that I was allowed to listen to Janice Joplin and the Rolling Stones as a young child, taken to adult plays in the city. I was far more "worldly" than their kids, yet I was uninterested in drugs, sex, and other activities that many of their children quickly fell pray to. All of the fascination and mystery had been removed for me.

 

I'm raising my dd's in much the same way. Both have seen live births, both have known about the birds and the bees since they were very young. We talk frankly about drugs, sex, and what actions can cause harm to us and others. I let both read bks and watch movies, many of you would find either too adult or even offensive. But, I insist that they are of good quality. No Hanna Montana or other brainless drivel is allowed in this house. It's kinda like my mom who never allowed Wonder Bread in our home. The first time I ate it, I could not see it's appeal, though it did make great glue balls to throw at friends. :lol:

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that without that connection, the talking, the being there for them (explaining), you can isolate your kids all you want, but when the day comes that they are exposed to all this stuff.... will they be ready? I saw it many times with friends from very strict homes, some made it through all the haze, but many did not.

 

I agree with a lot of what you say. Thanks for sharing this.

 

My issue with TV is most of it is drivel, and it takes them from better things, you know? My girls are both familiar with Hannah Montana, for example. They like Full House. They adore old shows I have introduced them to like Gidget and Bewitched. My 9 yo has taken a liking to that show that shows live births on calbe.:001_huh: Nevertheless, I am still considering pulling the plug! If only I could get dh on board because the commercials are the worst IMO. Also, before my mother died, she would spend time with my dd 11, who was around 8-9, looking through People Magazine and other celeb mags. I really never had any issue with that. I also liberal with music exposure for the most part or even movies. I think crushes can be natural and girls naturally develop interest in boys and vice versa at a certain age, hopefully closer to teen years than baby years! We really are not super strict, but my girls really don't have an interest in behaving in a sexually inappropriate way or dressing beyond their years. I do think you have to get to your kids hearts and let them know why you want to protect them. I instill in my kids that they are young once and that they should treasure this time. They will have lots of time to embrace being women and all the things that go with that. And for whatever reason, my girls are fine with that and agree with me. My 11 yo is horrified by the way girls on her swim team roll their shorts all the way down to their pubic bones. She feels it just looks gross. I agree. But no other parent, far as I can tell, thinks anything is wrong with this. To me, THAT is shocking. I am very cautious with who my kids hang out with. My kids do not have a peer influence that is dominant over family influence in their lives. Homeschooling has dramatically helped my kids be family oriented.

 

I certainly agree being too strict can backfire, especially if your kids are around kids who are doing things you don't want your kids to do! Peer influence is incredibly powerful. Good luck keeping them from doing what they want after a certain point--eventually children will go to extreme lengths to do what they want to do and if they are peer oriented, it's a tough road. Which is why I think you gotta get to their hearts well before that and control peer influences. Exposing them to music, movies, etc. IMHO is not the same as allowing them to hang with kids who are not the influence you want and allowing those kids to have a dominant place in your children's lives. I also think that being exposed to certain things and knowing it's adult stuff isn't the same as parents who actively encourage or just permit young girls to flaunt their budding sexuality--like the shorts rolled down to the pubic bone, kwim?

 

Well, this was a rather long and rambling post, but this is a very interesting discussion, and I appreciate getting everyone's thoughts!

 

Anita

[nmoira]

 

I'm one of the odd ones here... I do limit t.v. but not because of adult content but for the lack of quality.

Well, I don't find that odd in the least. :) I try to find a balance between sheltering the girls from what I consider to be the more pernicious aspects of our overriding culture -- for us this is chiefly the simultaneous pressures on girls to center their identities on being both consumers and product -- with not restricting access to knowledge. This is a relatively easy thing to accomplish now because the girls are young and I have de facto control over most aspects of their lives, but I still strive to facilitate exploration of ideas in which they show interest.

[Parrothead]

Therefore, I have chosen to be familiar with the programming, the basics on the "stars" and other information so that I can talk through it all with my kids.

:iagree:

 

I'm with you there. My dh won't get rid of the TV. I have gotten him to make sure what he watches is more appropriate for dd to watch. He also agrees with me that there is no Cartoon Network watched.

 

So we have drivel. We watch Hanna Montana, Spongebob, etc.

 

One thing I have found that after a while the appeal lessens. When dd first discovered Hanna Montana that was all I heard about for months. Now, not so much. Other things have become interesting to her - the Jonas Brothers. LOL Recently she has become interested in Myth Busters. They were on all day today. Every once in a while while she was playing she'd pop up and watch parts that interested her.

 

Now even though she is into the shows and music she isn't into the clothing, toys and other consumer products. She is still at an age where she doesn't choose her clothes in the store. Thank goodness.

 

All in all I'd rather watch what she watches, understand what appeal is and talk about things as they come up.

[Rosie_0801]

A "crush" at that age can be simply idolizing/looking up to someone who is older. My dd did this with some of her older brother's friends. What bothered me was when people started to tease about her 'boyfriends' etc. I know I got some strange looks but I asked friends not to do that.

 

 

Urgh. My relatives, including my mother, used to do this. Every year we'd bring home our school photos and she'd pick out the most loathsome boy to tease us about. She was a lot more respectful when I was old enough to like a guy at school, but her behaviour certainly stunted our growth in that department. If you can't trust your mum with those sorts of ideas, who are you going to share them with? More to the point, who is going to guide you through them? I'm pretty sure mum never found out about my sister's crush. Not to be trusted.

With my own kids, I hope to be able to treat all such things with the required amount of seriousness. I don't mean overemphasising it, just treat it with the amount of respect required to negotiate the phase. I don't want them feeling like developing is a bad thing. I think it's best they learn these things at their own pace. Holding them back (I mean locking them up, not putting in boundaries) can't be much better than letting them run around in "Playgirl" t-shirts. If they learn bit by bit, on their own timetable, they'll be ready for adult relationships when the time comes. If they're allowed to develop at the rate society encourages, I'm not sure if they ever have time to learn what an adult relationship is even meant to look like. If they are stunted, they could end up afraid to try for fear of appropriate knowledge. That's what happened with me, anyway.

:)

Rosie

[TN Mama]

Well, I tend to believe that the boys-on-the-brain "normality" of seducing our babes is firmly rooted in our consumerist society, the very thing that drives such crushes at tender ages. Look at the vast array of products that clearly market boys, couplehood, and tween sexuality to our youngest girls. It's only normal in McWorld, to my mind. :rolleyes:

 

That said, why isn't this stuff being marketed to boys with the same fervor? I'm no feminist, however, it peeves me to no end that our future women are pandered to by the likes of Hannah Montana, Bratz, et al, while our future men are primarily groomed by sport-worship, the rock-and-roll lifestyle, and the Abercrombie smooth, suburban hypersexual 12yo...oh wait...I guess that is equal-opportunity exploitation. Ugh.

 

I am perfectly content for my girls (and boy) to believe that crushes are what allosaurus did to the bones of its prey. :D I don't shelter them from those products that drive such silliness; they simply aren't interested, I guess. We talk about why these ideas and feelings are sold to children (and adults). Open dialog seems to keep the bulk of Consumerism 101 at bay in this household. I appreciate that, so far, my children aren't drawn to some artificial cash-gulping "emotion" to understand the importance of a future relationship between a man and a woman; they see dee-aitch and I and understand.

 

Zac Efron and his ilk need not apply. ;)

 

 

Can I just say... :hurray:

[TN Mama]

And where is the age appropriate shopping store for the younger girls? I want to go!!!

 

I was just going to post something similar. It is hard to find age appropriate clothing for girls who wear size 7 and up, unless you want to fork out big bucks. Surely someone out there understands not all children or their parents wish for them to dress like Britney Spears.

[hillfarm]

I guess I really don't mind dd becoming more mature than her chronological age, as long as she skips the worldly teen phase! Seriously, we live on a small farm and she has seen animals born, understood genetics (as in why not to cross this ram with that ewe) since she was 4, is reliable in a medical emergency, and can do many of the household chores almost as well as I can. She is 9yo.

 

We don't have TV but she does see it when she visits Grandma. I once asked her why she liked Zack and Cody and some of the other Disney shows that I think are mind-numbingly dull. She told me, "Mom, sometimes it is enjoyable for a kid to see another kid that is so much dumber than they are." I think she was referring not to a sense of superiority, but one of relief.

 

By the way, we did look at a Jonas Brothers magazine the other day and it was FULL of astrology related material. Each family has to judge whether this is right for them, but I was particularly irked that it was hidden within a publication that was intended for children. Does a 9yo really need to know how to choose her bathing suit based on her sign?

 

In many ways, my dd is not at all grown up. She wallows in the mud and has us watch plays she makes up. She has NO concept of fashion and is of the opinion that an orange flowered T matches plaid shorts with an orange stripe in them. She sings silly songs that she makes up as she goes. But like I mentioned in the first paragraph, she is also quite mature in many other ways.

 

Regarding the boy/girl thing, I think she is right where she needs to be. She is not at all obsessed but has mentioned that she thinks some boys are cute. We have had long discussions about the circumstances surrounding a teen single mom in our church. Dd's response to that? "Well what did she ever see in him? Even I could tell that he wasn't decent breeding stock and I just met him!" (Try not shooting iced tea out through your nose when your little sweetie comes out with something like that as you are zooming down the road)

 

As dd ages, I am trying to continue introducing her to new ideas and information. I am very aware that she will be exposed to it and that I will not always be with her to explain or protect her. I try to prepare her by introducing her to as much as I think is age appropriate. I want her to be wise in the face of all that will be thrown at her or dangled in front of her. And I pray hard about this. It is such a fine line to walk.

[titianmom]

Well, I tend to believe that the boys-on-the-brain "normality" of seducing our babes is firmly rooted in our consumerist society, .....

 

I don't shelter them from those products that drive such silliness; they simply aren't interested, I guess. We talk about why these ideas and feelings are sold to children (and adults). ...

 

Zac Efron and his ilk need not apply. ;)

 

I agree with you on the media, but that's the point I think we're all trying to make.

 

Our kids *do* listen to us and pick up on our sincerity--and this is true at any age. If we truly believe that something is wrong and we're passionate about it, the kids pick up on it, that <whatever> is not a good idea and it can be detrimental to me if I choose to do <fill-in-the-blank>. They pick up on our concern about their welfare.

 

AND, we prove our words by our behavior. If you aren't into Zac Efron, do you watch and fall all over a rock star yourself? Or a country music star? If you do, then you're being hypocritical. The kids see the hypocracy and go after what interests them. You can't be two-faced about it.

 

So, I don't agree nec that your kids are "...simply not interested, I guess". They've picked up on your vibes and see your sincerity and have taken shelter in a wise observation. That's parenting 101.

 

Hypocrites, however, need not apply. :)

 

Kim

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I am perfectly content for my girls (and boy) to believe that crushes are what allosaurus did to the bones of its prey. :D I don't shelter them from those products that drive such silliness; they simply aren't interested, I guess. We talk about why these ideas and feelings are sold to children (and adults). Open dialog seems to keep the bulk of Consumerism 101 at bay in this household. I appreciate that, so far, my children aren't drawn to some artificial cash-gulping "emotion" to understand the importance of a future relationship between a man and a woman; they see dee-aitch and I and understand.

 

Zac Efron and his ilk need not apply. ;)

 

I have been quite content to use our tv as a video/dvd view screen. In fact, my kids will ask me to pause tv when they are somewhere else. They have now idea that you can't do that to broadcast tv. (OK, DVR, I know, but that's not going to happen on our rabbit ears powered 16 yo tv).

 

I try to make the kids very aware of how they are being targeted as consumers. Why the toys in the happy meal are from the latest movie or tv show. How the advertisers' interests stop at selling something, not at really looking out for their (the kids') best interests.