Help, my DD is not a nice person...

[CupOCoffee]

My 10 year old is always miserable, often unpleasant, and hates everything that DS likes (movies he wants to watch, music he likes to listen too, games he wants to play). Examples:

 

Movies: we are big movie ppl, BIG! When it's time to pick a movie to watch in the evening, ANYTHING that my son suggests gets met with "NO, not that"...no matter if it's a movie she would like if *I* picked it...

 

Music: our family uses Spotify on our laptops; son has playlist built up, but when certain songs come on, she expects him to skip them because SHE doesn't want to listen to them...

 

Games: each of them gets 1 hour of Wii time daily; she will literally moan and groan at his choice of game when it's his time to play...

 

Let's see, what else: she is just really really miserable unless things are going her way. It's almost as though she thinks she is the only person alive. It is really wearing on all of our nerves! My dh is really really angry at her behavior, and I often have to calm him down in the way that he speaks to her.

 

What we are doing so far: I calmly declare "if you can't contribute the family-ness in this room {the FAMILY room}, then you cannot be in here". She usually marches off and goes to her room; she will write in her journal or just sit in her room. She has in the past written on her journal how mean and terrible we are because we sent her out of the room -- to which I have told her "it's fine to write that it's terrible you got sent to your room, but please make sure you write in there WHY your parents are so mean {she knows....}.

 

I really am at the end of my rope! Lest anyone think that DS is an innocent victim: he does *sometimes* provoke her her, aggravate her...he needs to chill out some too.

 

Haha: wait till they see the new addition to their schedule book today "you must perform 3 acts of kindness today"....:D

 

Thanks for listening, and for any ideas on how to bring her personality up a little. We don't expect her to be perfect angel all the time, but the her miserableness is bringing us all down. And we all will readily admit that things are SO much more peaceful when she is not around...which makes my mother's heart just feel so :(

 

~coffee~

[Kathleen in VA]

How old is your DS?

 

It sounds like she is depressed which may be due to bitterness about something in the past. I suggest counseling. Children are naturally selfish so it is not surprising when they behave rudely for the most part, but this sounds a little over the top. I'm guessing she's angry about something that happened a while ago and has never forgiven the culprit(s). I say the culprit, but I really mean whomever she perceives to be the culprit. She may be holding a grudge over something she misunderstood.

 

When my children act this way I remind them that they need to forgive others (since I usually don't know the exact cause of the bitterness I use general terms.) I also remind them that others are constantly forgiving them and overlooking their faults and they really are being self-righteous if they think they are the only ones who have ever been wronged by anyone and refuse to forgive (they usually have missed that aspect completely, lol). I've had this conversation a lot - mainly that life is mostly about getting along with other people and that includes a ton of forgiveness for others and a ton of being forgiven ourselves.

[AimeeM]

She sounds like most other 10 year old girls I know. Unpleasant, I know.

[Julie in CA]

I know there are other methods, I'm just telling you what would happen at my house.

 

There would be a sit-down between parents & dd, where consequences would be explained:

 

"We see you displaying {list unacceptable behaviors} and because we love you and because it is our responsibility as parents to help you proceed successfully in life, we've decided upon some consequences. The consequences begin now, and will continue until we feel you've learned, matured, and are able to prove your maturity in tangible ways {kindness to others, including brother}."

 

In our house the consequences would be rather strict, since unkindness would be looked upon as one of the worst infractions. So, with that in mind, we'd probably do this:

 

No screen time for that particular kid, or alternatively, *earned* screen time, by serving others.

Early bedtime, to make sure it's not grumps from tiredness.

We'd curtail outside activities.

That particular kid would be doing lots of physical, moderately strenuous labor. Weeds would be pulled, baseboards would be wiped, floors scrubbed, pets bathed, elderly people visited & helped with housework, etc. I would do those things along with dd, emphasizing service to others as something that is not a punishment, but simply a way of life that we'd mistakenly not taught her yet. In our home, it's part of our religious tradition to include abundant service, so we'd be explaining that it's not possible to love the Lord and at the same time be unkind to people. Serving those who are unable to serve themselves leaves a *lot* less time for selfishness/unkindness.

 

If teaching her lovingly in that way didn't help at all, then I'd probably seek professional counseling for her, for possible depression or resentment issues.

 

I think it's important to transmit the idea that it's not necessarily punitive, but that you've inadvertently neglected somehow to teach her this important skill, and you're going to help her fix the problem now.

 

ETA: I realize that my viewpoint may come across as not really addressing the problem of unkindness to her brother, and it's possible that dd already performs many acts of service towards others. I would suspect though, that there's more room for loving other people in general, and that the point is a striving towards loving *all people* (obviously mentioning brother) and showing it in tangible ways.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Julie in CA

[Twigs]

Can you set up a schedule as to who's turn it is to pick the movie, the game, etc. Any complaining means the loss of turn for the complainer's next choice, plus they would have to politely watch the movie, play the game, etc of what they complained about.

[MHowell]

You just explained my dd. she is 10 also. When it gets bad, we give her a time out, where she is required to sit quietly somewhere and journal it out. We don't dictate what she writes or read it (unless she asks), but we do make sure she writes SOMETHING.

 

This age is so hard, new emotions and feeling that they don't know how to express. My duh has a rough time with it too. Quite often I have to step in before he grounds her for a month. Hugs to you, I wish I had better advice!

[Desert Rat]

A few thoughts....

 

I have a pretty negative 11yo boy. We've done a few things to curb the negativity. The first is having to say 3 nice things for every negative thing. It doesn't necessarily make him positive; it just curbs him saying nasty things out loud.

 

We've also done a positive attitude reward program. I bought a large lego set. He didn't get to see it. He earned a max of 3 a day. He would get one warning to correct his attitude before he lost a piece. It worked wonderfully!

 

The other thing we do in our house is assigned days. I've done this since ds9 was teeny. Ds11 gets even numbered days. Ds9 gets odd. If months end in 31 or 29, that's mom's day. On their day, they get the front seat, or pick the movie, or get the extra piece of candy, or pick what's for dinner, etc. It has virtually stopped all bickering over these things in our house. They know that their day is next and don't complain about the other's choice.

 

HTH

[k2bdeutmeyer]

This sounds JUST like my DD.

 

For her it is mostly anxiety. I wouldn't ever have guessed that. Her therapist brought it up and we ended up putting her on Celexa. She was a totally different kid.

 

I'm not saying medication is the only answer - for us it came after YEARS of this - but anxiety/depression is something to consider. I can't tell you how much this has changed our lives and the dynamics of our family. My only regret is that I didn't do something sooner.

[Joanne]

The book "How to Stop Whining, Complaining, and Bad Attitude in You and Your Children" by Turansky and Miller is excellent. The title is a bit misleading - the book is about developing *honor* in family relationships.

 

To a large degree, I agree with the below:

 

There would be a sit-down between parents & dd, where consequences would be explained:

 

"We see you displaying {list unacceptable behaviors} and because we love you and because it is our responsibility as parents to help you proceed successfully in life, we've decided upon some consequences. The consequences begin now, and will continue until we feel you've learned, matured, and are able to prove your maturity in tangible ways {kindness to others, including brother}."

 

In our house the consequences would be rather strict, since unkindness would be looked upon as one of the worst infractions. So, with that in mind, we'd probably do this:

 

No screen time for that particular kid, or alternatively, *earned* screen time, by serving others.

Early bedtime, to make sure it's not grumps from tiredness.

We'd curtail outside activities.

That particular kid would be doing lots of physical, moderately strenuous labor. Weeds would be pulled, baseboards would be wiped, floors scrubbed, pets bathed, elderly people visited & helped with housework, etc. I would do those things along with dd, emphasizing service to others as something that is not a punishment, but simply a way of life that we'd mistakenly not taught her yet. In our home, it's part of our religious tradition to include abundant service, so we'd be explaining that it's not possible to love the Lord and at the same time be unkind to people. Serving those who are unable to serve themselves leaves a *lot* less time for selfishness/unkindness.

 

If teaching her lovingly in that way didn't help at all, then I'd probably seek professional counseling for her, for possible depression or resentment issues.

 

I think it's important to transmit the idea that it's not necessarily punitive, but that you've inadvertently neglected somehow to teach her this important skill, and you're going to help her fix the problem now.

 

ETA: I realize that my viewpoint may come across as not really addressing the problem of unkindness to her brother, and it's possible that dd already performs many acts of service towards others. I would suspect though, that there's more room for loving other people in general, and that the point is a striving towards loving *all people* (obviously mentioning brother) and showing it in tangible ways.

 

I would not necessarly curtail outside activities. I would, however, have a firm "one chance" policy regarding her choices, whining, etc. If brother's playlist causes a reaction in sis, sis' playlist gets put off for an entire day. (just as an example).

[CupOCoffee]

How old is your DS?

 

It sounds like she is depressed which may be due to bitterness about something in the past. I suggest counseling. Children are naturally selfish so it is not surprising when they behave rudely for the most part, but this sounds a little over the top. I'm guessing she's angry about something that happened a while ago and has never forgiven the culprit(s).

 

....this conversation a lot - mainly that life is mostly about getting along with other people and that includes a ton of forgiveness for others and a ton of being forgiven ourselves.

 

DS is 15. Depressed? In need of counseling? Hmm...something I had not considered but will keep in mind. I have had many, many talks with her, really heart to heart kind of stuff...like that if she can't get along with her family, and treat her own family right, then how will she learn to treat other people right? Or, "your family are the people you have to practice being nice with, getting along with, because we ARE the ones who will forgive more easily". It has not worked and my husband is rather annoyed; he wants to do it his way now.

 

Honestly? It sounds like most 10 yr old girls I know. They are SO self absorbed at that age. Is this something new with her? I was like this, and the best thing my mom did was to ignore my behavior. Without an audience, it wasn't as fun to be a whiner. :)

 

While it's a relief to hear this from several of you, it' tearing us apart -- DH takes DS side nearly always and DH himself is losing it with her too often.

 

I know there are other methods, I'm just telling you what would happen at my house.

 

There would be a sit-down between parents & dd, where consequences would be explained:

 

"We see you displaying {list unacceptable behaviors} and because we love you and because it is our responsibility as parents to help you proceed successfully in life, we've decided upon some consequences. The consequences begin now, and will continue until we feel you've learned, matured, and are able to prove your maturity in tangible ways {kindness to others, including brother}."

 

In our house the consequences would be rather strict, since unkindness would be looked upon as one of the worst infractions. So, with that in mind, we'd probably do this:

 

No screen time for that particular kid, or alternatively, *earned* screen time, by serving others.

Early bedtime, to make sure it's not grumps from tiredness.

We'd curtail outside activities.

 

That particular kid would be doing lots of physical, moderately strenuous labor. Weeds would be pulled, baseboards would be wiped, floors scrubbed, pets bathed, elderly people visited & helped with housework, etc. I would do those things along with dd, emphasizing service to others as something that is not a punishment, but simply a way of life that we'd mistakenly not taught her yet. In our home, it's part of our religious tradition to include abundant service, so we'd be explaining that it's not possible to love the Lord and at the same time be unkind to people. Serving those who are unable to serve themselves leaves a *lot* less time for selfishness/unkindness.

 

If teaching her lovingly in that way didn't help at all, then I'd probably seek professional counseling for her, for possible depression or resentment issues.

 

I think it's important to transmit the idea that it's not necessarily punitive, but that you've inadvertently neglected somehow to teach her this important skill, and you're going to help her fix the problem now.

 

ETA: I realize that my viewpoint may come across as not really addressing the problem of unkindness to her brother, and it's possible that dd already performs many acts of service towards others. I would suspect though, that there's more room for loving other people in general, and that the point is a striving towards loving *all people* (obviously mentioning brother) and showing it in tangible ways.

 

Thank you for your very detailed and thought out answer. As stated above, I have had many conversations about this with her. I just feel like it's going in one ear and out the other. While we have removed temporarily those exact privileges, it may be time for a more serious crack down. I like the idea of "earned screen time", and taking away outside stuff (after all, how I can I trust that she will treat others kindly and with respect...) altho there would be much shedding of tear and *much* stomping of feet and anger :( .

 

I have thought about the tough chores thing, there are complications to getting my getting down and doing nitty gritty scrubbing type stuff with her (rofl, I seriously would not be able to get back up, with my RA...). But I will see if there is something else physical that I can implement. I love how you suggest that it's an area that we've failed in, and this is an area where my DH and I disagree: he says "she's 10 she should know these things by now"; and I say "we need to do more than tell her she's wrong, we need to teach her how to be right"...

 

This has always been my difficult child -- she's given me trouble since the day she implanted, no joke! :lol: I love her dearly, she can be a gem when she wants to. It's just that this miserableness and unhappiness is really getting old.

 

Thank you all for your suggestions, and I will keep all of your words under consideration.

 

~coffee~

[StephanieZ]

The good thing about what you've posted is that her bad behaviors that you list are all in one category! An easily measurable behavior!! YAY!!

 

How about give her a new rule:

 

"You will not express any disapproval, dislike, ridicule, or otherwise negatively respond to anything ds suggests, likes, listens to, plays, etc."

 

(She may leave the room discretely if she is free to do so (not on an assigned task.)

 

The use some reward/behavior chart.

 

Such as:

 

You get two chips each day. I will take away one chip each time you make any negative response to ds. (Your judgment is final! If she needs "practice" in identifying acceptable/not acceptable responses, you are happy to role play!) If you lose both chips in a day, you lose your Wii time for the next Wii time/day.

 

Customize as desired. Enforce mercilessly, and without much comment.

[goldberry]

he says "she's 10 she should know these things by now";

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Sorry, composing myself now...DD was TERRIBLE at 10. She is an only, so Dad and I took the brunt of her abuse and ungratefulness. We worked on it, worked on it, worked on it...

 

She really has shaped up nicely over the last couple of years (13 now). Still has her moments, but overall a HUGE improvement. For her it was mainly a maturity issue.

 

I had to watch myself, because like you, I started feeling very negatively towards her - thinking she's not a nice person, how is she going to ever get along with others, etc. THEY KNOW WHEN YOU START TO FEEL THAT WAY. It only makes things worse.

 

Keep reminding yourself that she is still just a kid. She is still learning. Your two year old didn't throw tantrums because they were BAD, but because that's just what two year olds do. You or your husband might expect that she should already know these things, but for whatever reason, she doesn't get it yet. Keep working with her, and don't jump ahead that she is "always going to be this way". It's hard I know! But try to pay attention to your own attitude as well.

 

:grouphug:

[MamaSheep]

We have had a similar issue at our house, although in our case it's ds who is Mr. Misery and dd who is (usually, but not always) getting picked at by her brother. Interestingly, cracking down on it seemed to make it worse, not better. But these days they're generally pretty good friends. Some things that seemed to help:

 

1 - Have a sense of humor. "Woo hoo! You are hereby awarded the prize for the best put-upon sigh of the entire day! Silly goose. Go find something to do." or "Wow, that was a fabulous whine, do you think you could do that again? Say, 'I love anchovies' using that same tone. Hee hee! I love it. Now say, 'Great garrulous gorillas!'" I've found that almost nothing stops an unpleasant tone faster than not taking it seriously. Getting upset and handing out punishments just validates the moodiness and feeds the funk and turns it into a power struggle. By making it a game, or joking around a little you can either defuse or short circuit the nastiness. Something to be careful of here, though, is that your joviality needs to be as genuine and sincere as possible. You are not mocking the child, as that will just make it worse. You need to at least seem as though you find their childishness delightfully amusing (and not in the least bit threatening or confrontational). As much as possible, invite the child to participate in the humor. Maybe you could tell the child that because she's the record-holder for the most put-upon sigh, now she has to judge the competition, and you can give some melodramatic renditions of your own for her to score. Or you can let her make up silly things for YOU to say in a whiney voice. "Now it's my turn. Do you think I can whine that well too? Quick, give me something to say." Ham it up.

 

2 - When I hear my kids scrapping about something, especially if they both seem to be contributing to the problem (ex. he chose that game because she was there and he knew it would annoy her, and she is obliging him by getting annoyed) I give them a chance to solve the problem between themselves before I get involved. "Hey kids, is that something you two can work out, or do you need me to come solve the problem?" Usually they'll say they can work it out, and I give them a few minutes to do so. If they both seem to be sincerely trying to work it out, but are stuck, I might give some coaching in the form of suggesting several solutions they can choose between (he keeps playing with the sound muted, they take turns, etc.) And I generally go along with whatever solution they come up with. If I have to intervene and dictate a solution to the problem, usually nobody will be happy with what I come up with. If there's screeching about the Wii, the Wii gets turned off and nobody can play, for example. Or both of them have to stop what they're doing and clean their rooms for ten minutes. Or whatever. This encourages them to negotiate a solution between the two of them next time because NOBODY wants whatever MOM is going to dish out.

 

3. This is the biggie. It made more difference than anything else I've tried. If you do nothing else, do this. Seriously. Here it is: Track the ratio of positive to negative interactions you have with your cranky child and strive for at LEAST 4 positive interactions to every 1 negative interaction. Give it a month or so and you will be AMAZED at how much difference it makes. The higher the ratio, the better the results, too. It might be hard at first, especially since you don't always have a lot of control over how many negative interactions come flying at you from hip-height. You might have to get creative. I seriously had to resort to the borderline-ridiculous at times in the beginning--stuff like, "You are improving so much on coming to the table the first time I call. I only had to call you nine times before you came this time; at lunch it was twenty-three times. Look how much closer you've gotten to the goal! That's fabulous! Before I know it you're going to be showing up even before I get a chance to call!" But really, and truly, the more positive interactions you can find, facilitate, or fabricate, the better the relationship will be and the better the behavior will get. I promise it will make a difference in ways that will surprise you. Truly.

 

These days my kids are actually fairly good friends, in spite of the fact that dd is beginning to show symptoms of being almost 10...

[StephanieZ]

The good thing about what you've posted is that her bad behaviors that you list are all in one category! An easily measurable behavior!! YAY!!

 

How about give her a new rule:

 

"You will not express any disapproval, dislike, ridicule, or otherwise negatively respond to anything ds suggests, likes, listens to, plays, etc."

 

(She may leave the room discretely if she is free to do so (not on an assigned task.)

 

The use some reward/behavior chart.

 

Such as:

 

You get two chips each day. I will take away one chip each time you make any negative response to ds. (Your judgment is final! If she needs "practice" in identifying acceptable/not acceptable responses, you are happy to role play!) If you lose both chips in a day, you lose your Wii time for the next Wii time/day.

 

Customize as desired. Enforce mercilessly, and without much comment.

[milovany]

The book "How to Stop Whining, Complaining, and Bad Attitude in You and Your Children" by Turansky and Miller is excellent. The title is a bit misleading - the book is about developing *honor* in family relationships.

 

I agree with this recommendation. It's an excellent resource.

[Julie in CA]

Thank you for your very detailed and thought out answer. As stated above, I have had many conversations about this with her. I just feel like it's going in one ear and out the other. While we have removed temporarily those exact privileges, it may be time for a more serious crack down. I like the idea of "earned screen time", and taking away outside stuff (after all, how I can I trust that she will treat others kindly and with respect...) altho there would be much shedding of tear and *much* stomping of feet and anger :( .

 

I have thought about the tough chores thing, there are complications to getting my getting down and doing nitty gritty scrubbing type stuff with her (rofl, I seriously would not be able to get back up, with my RA...). But I will see if there is something else physical that I can implement. I love how you suggest that it's an area that we've failed in, and this is an area where my DH and I disagree: he says "she's 10 she should know these things by now"; and I say "we need to do more than tell her she's wrong, we need to teach her how to be right"...

 

This has always been my difficult child -- she's given me trouble since the day she implanted, no joke! :lol: I love her dearly, she can be a gem when she wants to. It's just that this miserableness and unhappiness is really getting old.

 

Thank you all for your suggestions, and I will keep all of your words under consideration.

 

~coffee~

Please know that I didn't mean to imply that you'd personally failed in any area, but it seems to help the kid realize that it's something that can change, and that you're there to help. Sort of cuts down on any "you're picking on me" mentality they might have.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

For me, the hardest part so far has been 13 yo boys. When someone asks me for any advice about boys, it's pretty much always when they have a 13 yo boy.

I tell people that when each of my boys was 13, I thought I was either going to die, or kill them myself! ;) (I'm saying this with humor). 13 doesn't last forever though, and pretty soon they're wonderful to be around again.

 

Almost all the time, things like what your dd is doing blows over. Don't give up, for sure, but remind yourself privately that, "This too shall pass". :001_smile:

 

Oh, and one last thing...I wouldn't allow a kid to punish the family with the (literal or figurative) stomping of feet about consequences. They can go to their room, or they can get to work on some of the aforementioned physical labor, and then after they've become a little more rational we have any necessary conversations, provided we are both in a place where we're able to be respectful towards each other. Learning to soothe yourself is important, and learning to get through life without making other people miserable is part & parcel of what she's most needing to learn, imo. One comment I've made to my dc occasionally is, "I'm sorry you're unhappy about this. I would be too, in your place, but we're going to discuss this later, after you've calmed down.", and then I really truly don't discuss it any more at the time. Do make sure to have the conversation later though. :001_smile:

[Dustybug]

A few thoughts....

 

I have a pretty negative 11yo boy. We've done a few things to curb the negativity. The first is having to say 3 nice things for every negative thing. It doesn't necessarily make him positive; it just curbs him saying nasty things out loud.

 

We've also done a positive attitude reward program. I bought a large lego set. He didn't get to see it. He earned a max of 3 a day. He would get one warning to correct his attitude before he lost a piece. It worked wonderfully!

 

The other thing we do in our house is assigned days. I've done this since ds9 was teeny. Ds11 gets even numbered days. Ds9 gets odd. If months end in 31 or 29, that's mom's day. On their day, they get the front seat, or pick the movie, or get the extra piece of candy, or pick what's for dinner, etc. It has virtually stopped all bickering over these things in our house. They know that their day is next and don't complain about the other's choice.

 

HTH

 

I love this idea!

[CupOCoffee]

Can you set up a schedule as to who's turn it is to pick the movie, the game, etc. Any complaining means the loss of turn for the complainer's next choice, plus they would have to politely watch the movie, play the game, etc of what they complained about.

 

We do this for who gets to go first on the Wii and some other things. The funny thing is, she *does* watch the movie/game whatever -- it's just that initial reaction that drives us nuts.

 

A few thoughts....

 

I have a pretty negative 11yo boy. We've done a few things to curb the negativity. The first is having to say 3 nice things for every negative thing. It doesn't necessarily make him positive; it just curbs him saying nasty things out loud.

 

The other thing we do in our house is assigned days.... On their day, they get the front seat, or pick the movie, or get the extra piece of candy, or pick what's for dinner, etc. It has virtually stopped all bickering over these things in our house. They know that their day is next and don't complain about the other's choice.

 

HTH

 

Thanks for those suggestions! We do use odd/even turns. It doesn't matter who's "turn" it is to pick a movie, she will complain about whatever he suggests. I also like the idea of saying/doing nice things to counter act the negative. Thus the new "do 3 acts of kindness" added to their schedule. The problem is sometimes, she doesn't actually *say* something negative, it's more her attitude sometimes.

 

The good thing about what you've posted is that her bad behaviors that you list are all in one category! An easily measurable behavior!! YAY!!

 

How about give her a new rule:

 

"You will not express any disapproval, dislike, ridicule, or otherwise negatively respond to anything ds suggests, likes, listens to, plays, etc."

 

(She may leave the room discretely if she is free to do so (not on an assigned task.)

 

The use some reward/behavior chart.

 

Such as:

 

You get two chips each day. I will take away one chip each time you make any negative response to ds. (Your judgment is final! If she needs "practice" in identifying acceptable/not acceptable responses, you are happy to role play!) If you lose both chips in a day, you lose your Wii time for the next Wii time/day.

 

Customize as desired. Enforce mercilessly, and without much comment.

 

She has been grounded from Wii for weeks at a time; as soon as she gets the privilege back, it usually only lasts a few days and it's taken away again. We need to think of something else.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Sorry, composing myself now...DD was TERRIBLE at 10. She is an only, so Dad and I took the brunt of her abuse and ungratefulness. We worked on it, worked on it, worked on it...

 

She really has shaped up nicely over the last couple of years (13 now). Still has her moments, but overall a HUGE improvement. For her it was mainly a maturity issue.

 

I had to watch myself, because like you, I started feeling very negatively towards her - thinking she's not a nice person, how is she going to ever get along with others, etc. THEY KNOW WHEN YOU START TO FEEL THAT WAY. It only makes things worse.

 

Keep reminding yourself that she is still just a kid. She is still learning. Your two year old didn't throw tantrums because they were BAD, but because that's just what two year olds do. You or your husband might expect that she should already know these things, but for whatever reason, she doesn't get it yet. Keep working with her, and don't jump ahead that she is "always going to be this way". It's hard I know! But try to pay attention to your own attitude as well.

 

:grouphug:

 

Sigh, yes, this! I feel horrible for even posting about this, like I am a failure or something. And DH has expressed the same kind of thing "OMG she is such a *itch" <---- to ME only, in private conversations of course, lest anyone get the wrong idea. We will keep working on it, I've gotten a lot of good suggestions here.

 

We have had a similar issue at our house, although in our case it's ds who is Mr. Misery and dd who is (usually, but not always) getting picked at by her brother. Interestingly, cracking down on it seemed to make it worse, not better. But these days they're generally pretty good friends. Some things that seemed to help:

 

1 - Have a sense of humor. "Woo hoo! You are hereby awarded the prize for the best put-upon sigh of the entire day! Silly goose. Go find something to do." or "Wow, that was a fabulous whine, do you think you could do that again? Say, 'I love anchovies' using that same tone. Hee hee! I love it. Now say, 'Great garrulous gorillas!'" I've found that almost nothing stops an unpleasant tone faster than not taking it seriously. Getting upset and handing out punishments just validates the moodiness and feeds the funk and turns it into a power struggle. By making it a game, or joking around a little you can either defuse or short circuit the nastiness. Something to be careful of here, though, is that your joviality needs to be as genuine and sincere as possible. You are not mocking the child, as that will just make it worse. You need to at least seem as though you find their childishness delightfully amusing (and not in the least bit threatening or confrontational). As much as possible, invite the child to participate in the humor. Maybe you could tell the child that because she's the record-holder for the most put-upon sigh, now she has to judge the competition, and you can give some melodramatic renditions of your own for her to score. Or you can let her make up silly things for YOU to say in a whiney voice. "Now it's my turn. Do you think I can whine that well too? Quick, give me something to say." Ham it up.

 

2 - When I hear my kids scrapping about something, especially if they both seem to be contributing to the problem (ex. he chose that game because she was there and he knew it would annoy her, and she is obliging him by getting annoyed) I give them a chance to solve the problem between themselves before I get involved. "Hey kids, is that something you two can work out, or do you need me to come solve the problem?" Usually they'll say they can work it out, and I give them a few minutes to do so. If they both seem to be sincerely trying to work it out, but are stuck, I might give some coaching in the form of suggesting several solutions they can choose between (he keeps playing with the sound muted, they take turns, etc.) And I generally go along with whatever solution they come up with. If I have to intervene and dictate a solution to the problem, usually nobody will be happy with what I come up with. If there's screeching about the Wii, the Wii gets turned off and nobody can play, for example. Or both of them have to stop what they're doing and clean their rooms for ten minutes. Or whatever. This encourages them to negotiate a solution between the two of them next time because NOBODY wants whatever MOM is going to dish out.

 

3. This is the biggie. It made more difference than anything else I've tried. If you do nothing else, do this. Seriously. Here it is: Track the ratio of positive to negative interactions you have with your cranky child and strive for at LEAST 4 positive interactions to every 1 negative interaction. Give it a month or so and you will be AMAZED at how much difference it makes. The higher the ratio, the better the results, too. It might be hard at first, especially since you don't always have a lot of control over how many negative interactions come flying at you from hip-height. You might have to get creative. I seriously had to resort to the borderline-ridiculous at times in the beginning--stuff like, "You are improving so much on coming to the table the first time I call. I only had to call you nine times before you came this time; at lunch it was twenty-three times. Look how much closer you've gotten to the goal! That's fabulous! Before I know it you're going to be showing up even before I get a chance to call!" But really, and truly, the more positive interactions you can find, facilitate, or fabricate, the better the relationship will be and the better the behavior will get. I promise it will make a difference in ways that will surprise you. Truly.

 

These days my kids are actually fairly good friends, in spite of the fact that dd is beginning to show symptoms of being almost 10...

 

 

1 & 2: yes, yes, yes, yes...if only those reaction didn't make her even MORE angry....she gets mad because I am "making fun of her", and don't understand her feelings on the issue <--- the issue that she HATES the Tron movie and her brother wants to watch it? what the heck kind of issue is THAT? so yes I am laughing at the silliness of it, but I am NOT making fun of you. Last night she asked me a serious question and before I could even answer, she interrupted with telling me some story about a game she was playing, totally not related. When she was done telling that, she turned and said, "ok, you can answer that question I had now" and I refused, telling her that she was so rude to have asked me a sincere question, and then didn't even give me a chance to speak; she got mad, I was being unfair.

 

Number 3 I will think about; it would need the cooperation from DH since he is there during the day and I am not. I would have think about how to make that work.

 

I so appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments, again. Thank you.

 

~coffee~

[J-rap]

I think you've received some good suggestions already on consequences and discipline, and I think that's the first thing to be addressed, because even if things aren't going great in your own life that doesn't give you the "ok" to treat others unkindly. It just doesn't.

 

But besides that, I'd address a couple other issues. One, maybe she has some skewed interpretations of things within your family that you need to uncover. Sometimes part of being a parent is being a private eye! I remember once when a daughter of mine was in high school and was going through a more difficult stage, I found a poem of hers she had written, and it expressed her feelings on an issue that was going on at home... totally misinterpreted on her part, but because she was such a private person, she kept it to herself and the issue just got bigger and bigger in her mind. If I hadn't found this in her poem, I would never have known! I was able to address it (in a roundabout way -- I didn't want her to think I was snooping!), and help her to see what that she was misreading things.

 

A second thing I'd work on is the relationship between her and her brother. Can you talk to your son about this? I think from your signature, I understand that he is a few years older? Maybe you could explain to him that she is going through a difficult time, and you might need his help and understanding. Perhaps you could plan a few special events for the two of them (an outing to the movies, etc.), so they can spend time together in a positive way. The more involved my children became in each other's lives as they got older, the more positive input they had all around.

[AprilTN]

nevermind

Edited March 13, 2012 by AprilTN
nevermind

[scrappyhappymama]

You mentioned that your husband is home with her during the day. Is he getting the same kind of attitude from her all day? If so, how is he handling it?

 

I'd be really concerned about dad referring to her as a *itch, even in private, because it's pretty hard to mask those feelings and frustration when dealing with her. If in your daughter's perception, dad is always taking brothers side on things, then I can see how how she'd feel like her attitude doesn't really matter anyway. I think whatever approach you take, you and DH definitely need to be on the same page first, especially since he is home with her during the day.

 

One of our sons is very different personality-wise from my husband. For a long time, husband struggled to interact with him positively and not be set off by the way son would react to things. He finally realized that it is HIS job to bridge the gap between himself and his son, and to learn to work with our son in the way son should go, not to expect son to conform to the way he thinks he should react. I'm not talking about morality or values issues here, but personality ones. For example, DH is able to joke freely with another son, because they have the same sense of humor and no one gets upset. But with sensitive son, jokes would turn into hurts and DH would get annoyed that son was being so sensitive. DH also had to learn to moderate the way he dealt with rule infractions with this son, making sure his comments were limited to the issue at hand and not something son would internalize and take as meaning he is "bad" (good policy for all kids, but especially for sensitive ones). Obviously, I wouldn't know the specifics of your husband's and your daughter's personalities and interactions, but this is an area I'd be exploring.

[Kathleen in VA]

Just want to add that I recommended counseling because she seems very, very angry. She seems not to want to confide in anyone at home and perhaps a third party would be able to get at what's eating her. I don't think she's some kind of extreme case who needs emergency intervention or anything - just an angry young lady who needs someone not quite so invested in the situation to hear her out. Also, she needs to hear from someone besides her parents that she is acting selfishly and she needs to learn how to communicate her feelings in a more constructive way. Right now she just seems to be acting spiteful.

[KS_]

I'd be really concerned about dad referring to her as a *itch, even in private, because it's pretty hard to mask those feelings and frustration when dealing with her. If in your daughter's perception, dad is always taking brothers side on things, then I can see how how she'd feel like her attitude doesn't really matter anyway. I think whatever approach you take, you and DH definitely need to be on the same page first, especially since he is home with her during the day.

 

One of our sons is very different personality-wise from my husband. For a long time, husband struggled to interact with him positively and not be set off by the way son would react to things. He finally realized that it is HIS job to bridge the gap between himself and his son, and to learn to work with our son in the way son should go, not to expect son to conform to the way he thinks he should react. I'm not talking about morality or values issues here, but personality ones. For example, DH is able to joke freely with another son, because they have the same sense of humor and no one gets upset. But with sensitive son, jokes would turn into hurts and DH would get annoyed that son was being so sensitive. DH also had to learn to moderate the way he dealt with rule infractions with this son, making sure his comments were limited to the issue at hand and not something son would internalize and take as meaning he is "bad" (good policy for all kids, but especially for sensitive ones). Obviously, I wouldn't know the specifics of your husband's and your daughter's personalities and interactions, but this is an area I'd be exploring.

 

I agree with this. We've had various sensitivity/easily frustrated issues with our dc and things changed drastically for the better once I realized that I needed to change how I interacted and reacted to some of those issues. If a child perceives that everyone is against them, it's going to affect their attitude. And even if it's not true (that everyone's against them), their feelings are valid (they may have been caused by a misperception, but the child is still having those feelings).

[MamaSheep]

 

1 & 2: yes, yes, yes, yes...if only those reaction didn't make her even MORE angry....she gets mad because I am "making fun of her", and don't understand her feelings on the issue <--- the issue that she HATES the Tron movie and her brother wants to watch it? what the heck kind of issue is THAT? so yes I am laughing at the silliness of it, but I am NOT making fun of you. Last night she asked me a serious question and before I could even answer, she interrupted with telling me some story about a game she was playing, totally not related. When she was done telling that, she turned and said, "ok, you can answer that question I had now" and I refused, telling her that she was so rude to have asked me a sincere question, and then didn't even give me a chance to speak; she got mad, I was being unfair.

 

Yes, I think these approaches do depend somewhat on the nature of the relationship you have with your child. If she thinks you don't like her and that you're just looking for ways to put her down and grind her under (not that you are, just that kids sometimes think this in their dark times) she's not going to be very receptive.

 

Something else I do when one child HATES something the other one likes is I remind them that sometimes we do things E likes, and sometimes we do things D likes, and sometimes we do things dad or I like. If you don't want us to complain about doing things you like, then it's unfair of you to complain about doing things we like.

 

Also, regarding complaining, I tell my kids they can tell me they don't like something ONE TIME. One time is information, and can be useful in determining how I want to arrange things. More than once, though, is complaining, and complaining will be viewed by the management as an indication that the complainer is tired and needs a little extra sleep tonight (ie. bedtime is moved up).

 

But again, these are not things that "build" the relationship. They're withdrawals from the relationship bank, not deposits. You need to make lots of deposits before there will be something there to withdraw. Especially if the relationship is already overdrawn.

 

Number 3 I will think about; it would need the cooperation from DH since he is there during the day and I am not. I would have think about how to make that work.

 

 

Yes, you only have so much control over what other people do. Remember, though, that your relationship with her is a different relationship than relationship between her and her dad. Obviously it would be better for her if both of you were to get on board with the positive interactions, but even if he's not willing to do it, you can at least start rebuilding the relationship between YOU and your daughter during the time you're with her. You can't control her half of the relationship, you can only control your half, but you can use your half to make the whole relationship better, and that will influence how she handles her half. Once she starts getting along better with you, maybe your husband will want to know why and you can get him on board then.

[fraidycat]

I think it is mostly just the age. I have a 9 year old DD with an attitude, too. Some days her and DH mix like oil and water, it seems.

 

I've pointed out to HIM that his reaction to her issues exacerbate the issues, as she is much more easier for me to deal with and calm her attitude when he is not home. Of course, he doesn't get to see much of it in action because he's not here, but he stopped the condescending lecturing when I asked him if he learned it from his Dad whom he loved very much or Dad's live in GF whom he did not get along with, at all. It was a real eye opener for him and their relationship is much better because of it (DH & DD).

 

My rule with attitude is "You ARE a very kind, gentle person so until you can be *that* person around others, you spend time alone in your room." It does not usually take very long at all for her attitude to realign into the sweet, caring child that she is, at heart.

[CupOCoffee]

I want to thank all of you for all of your suggestions/thoughts/hugs and general re-assurance. You all have given me much to think about. It' late and I am really beat, but I didn't want to NOT say thank you.

 

Tomorrow I will be re-reading every wise word here! I want to make sure that all of you understand that NO feelings were hurt, NO offense was taken in anything that you have said here. There are things that need to be worked on in our family dynamic, that much I am sure of.

 

As I sit here now listening to them plan out their ideas for the NaNoWriMo Script writing frenzy next month, and they are actually happy together, I sigh and I do see that there is hope :) she is not going to be grumpy gus forever, I truly believe in her....I just need to make it through this rough time.

 

I will try to respond more specifically to some of you tomorrow, but I think this post will be on about page 12 by the time I have the time :lol: .

 

~coffee~

[CupOCoffee]

Please know that I didn't mean to imply that you'd personally failed in any area, but it seems to help the kid realize that it's something that can change, and that you're there to help. Sort of cuts down on any "you're picking on me" mentality they might have.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

 

Julie -- I just tried to PM you, but your box is full. I wanted specifically to make sure you knew I that I didn't get upset at what you had said in your other post: I really DID love what you suggested.

 

~coffee~

[Julie in CA]

Julie -- I just tried to PM you, but your box is full. I wanted specifically to make sure you knew I that I didn't get upset at what you had said in your other post: I really DID love what you suggested.

 

~coffee~

Thanks for hearing what I was trying to say. :001_smile:

[Haiku]

her miserableness is bringing us all down. And we all will readily admit that things are SO much more peaceful when she is not around

 

 

My dd17 is that way.

 

As far as I'm concerned, when your dd gripes about her brother's choices, she has chosen not to participate. Gripe about brother's movie? You don't watch. Gripe about Spotify? You don't get to use your account. Gripe about Wii? You don't get to play.

 

I have also been known to announce some fun family activity and stipulate that only those who can act right and be pleasant can participate. (To be fair, each of the children have been left out on that one on occasion.) I don't announce the activity and then single out any child, but I do ban children immediately if they start to grumble about any aspect of our proposed or in-progress activity.

 

I also tell my kids that if they can't act right and pleasant at home, then I won't unleash them on the world. Dd17 has been suffering that one for two months now.

 

I also tell dd17, on occasion, "You are ruining our fun/peace/togetherness. Go to your room and don't come back until you can act right and be pleasant."

 

My dd17 has a naturally self-pitying, woe-is-me disposition. I don't think she'll change much, but she has learned to fake it somewhat due to my training.

 

Tara

[Haiku]

I was like this, and the best thing my mom did was to ignore my behavior. Without an audience, it wasn't as fun to be a whiner. :)

 

My sister was a completely horrendous teen. My mom chose the "ignore the behavior" route. That pretty much left me to take the brunt of it. Not the way to go, imo.

 

I also don't think this is typical of being a 10 year old girl. My dd is 10, and she has only become more pleasant in the past few months. Her friends seem the same.

 

Tara

[Haiku]

And even if it's not true (that everyone's against them), their feelings are valid (they may have been caused by a misperception, but the child is still having those feelings).

 

One of the first things I learned in counseling is to stop trying to validate all dd's feelings. I was only feeding her sense of victimhood. I was told to immediately confront her skewed version of things. It has helped. She will come to me and describe some outrageous perceived slight, and I will say (matter-of-factly, not unkindly), "That's not how it is. You need to consider this matter from a different point of view," and describe a different way of interpreting things.

 

For example, dd was supremely annoyed that we wouldn't pay for her cell phone and believed her friends that we were just too cheap to do so. She stewed about this for days, about how mean and unjust and unconcerned with her happiness we were, until she finally picked a fight with me about it. I told her calmy, "That's not true at all. We give you a generous allowance, and at your age it is up to you to make decisions about how to spend that allowance. This is part of growing up and learning to be responsible with money. You choose to spend the money we give you on a phone." Of course she was annoyed that I showed she was wrong, but a day or so later she came to me and told me she understood what I was saying.

 

Tara

[Trilliums]

My son was very grumpy around age 8-9. Also, your description of her conversation where she interrupted you and then told you to continue after she had finished reminds me of my son, especially when he was younger.

 

Have you ever tried omega 3 fatty acid supplements for her? Also, a long shot, but have you ever read anything about Asperger's syndrome that reminds you of her behaviors? DS has a nonverbal ld, but it manifests similar to Asperger's. He had a very hard time telling when he was being rude or inappropriate. He is so much better noe but he did not pick up on it naturally. We had to learn a lot about the social conventions, including going way beyond simply discussing what kind of behavior I did not want to see. He had to very explicitly learn the proper way to deal with a variety of different situations.

This may not be at all what you are dealing with in your DD, but just some thoughts.

[KungFuPanda]

My parents gave out chores for that behavior. All 4 of us, even the one who is just like your daughter, learned to behave respectfully whether we felt like it or not. It was just easier to fake manners than it was to weed or scrub. The offending daughter (not me) DID outgrow this behavior in her mid-teens. One of her daughters now drives her nuts with this woe-is-me attitude. So, don't neglect to put the curse on her :D

[LittleIzumi]

:iagree: A few things you said, jumped out at me:

 

"My dh is really really angry at her behavior, and I often have to calm him down in the way that he speaks to her. And we all will readily admit that things are SO much more peaceful when she is not around...which makes my mother's heart just feel so :( Lest anyone think that DS is an innocent victim: he does *sometimes* provoke her her, aggravate her...he needs to chill out some too. DH takes DS side nearly always and DH himself is losing it with her too often. ...it would need the cooperation from DH since he is there during the day and I am not. It has not worked and my husband is rather annoyed; he wants to do it his way now. And DH has expressed the same kind of thing "OMG she is such a *itch" <---- to ME only, in private conversations of course, lest anyone get the wrong idea."

 

I'm curious...what happens during the day when you're not there to calm your husband down, the way he speaks to her? I understand he is really, really angry w/her behavior. But it doesn't sound like his reaction to her behavior is any better than her behavior...and she is only 10 years old. Is it possible that the real relationship conflict is between your husband and daughter instead of your daughter and son? I'm not saying her behavior is okay. But do you think she could feel like the "odd one out" all day long? If she's home w/just your DS & DH all day and DH is nearly always taking DS side, maybe she is feeling resentment? Also, if your DH is expressing, "OMG she is such a *itch".... I'm sure those feelings & thoughts are coming across to her in his attitude toward her.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Briartell]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned already but two things are probably adding to the situation.

 

First is hormones. Puberty for girls is a nightmare. My daughter discovered what rage really is at that age and it wasn't always controllable. I had a frank talk with my daughter about her mood swings and puberty. I let her know that when I see her getting to a bad place with her emotions, that I would send her to my room to lie down, to read, or listen to some calming music. I let her know that it isn't a punishment but an intervention to keep her from getting worse and being punished. We read the feelings book by American girl as well. She responded really well to this. We chose songs together to help her too. An added blessing is that she is learning to cope with her feelings in a healthy way.

 

Second, she could be acting out at her brother because he is growing further apart from her. She could be feeling rejected and this decides to reject him first so the pain won't be so bad. Try and get big brother to do something fun with her, just the two of them. Warn him that he might get the sour attitude from her still but to just love her more. Hopefully he would be willing to do this.

 

I hope these perspectives help!

Edited March 13, 2012 by Briartell

[Trish]

MOVIES: TAKE TURNS

MUSIC: Headphones

GAMES: MYOB

 

 

If she doesn't feel nice she should pretend.

[rocketgirl]

I know, I often think that about my oldest, who is 12 now...and who picks on her younger siblings. Then I think about not how she is now but about her whole person - & who she will be as an adult - the person she can become - and I work on how can I help her become that person. That just takes time, so much time, I wish it was easier.

[KS_]

One of the first things I learned in counseling is to stop trying to validate all dd's feelings. I was only feeding her sense of victimhood. I was told to immediately confront her skewed version of things. It has helped. She will come to me and describe some outrageous perceived slight, and I will say (matter-of-factly, not unkindly), "That's not how it is. You need to consider this matter from a different point of view," and describe a different way of interpreting things.

 

 

 

And I agree that you shouldn't always give in or try to pacify everything, but my ds really thought dh and I were against him and tried to do things to make him upset, etc. (he has a low frustration tolerance/threshhold and was quick to react poorly). Because of his misperception and the things dh and I were doing that fed the misperception, it created a bad cycle where he felt misunderstood and picked on. Once we understood how he was feeling and changed how we did a few things (and talked with him about how we realized this and what we were doing to change it), we have a completely different relationship now and ds has learned how to change how he reacts.

 

We may go into a conversation asking what happened/how he feels and then go on to discuss the other side of it and how he might understand someone else's side of the story (usually his sister's) and how he might choose to do something differently next time. (And the same thing with dd.) He wouldn't change his mind about how he felt/perceived an issue if I always just told him his thoughts about it were wrong - it takes some talking and him feeling like he is being listened to.

[JFSinIL]

Can you set up a schedule as to who's turn it is to pick the movie, the game, etc. Any complaining means the loss of turn for the complainer's next choice, plus they would have to politely watch the movie, play the game, etc of what they complained about.

 

This is what I was thinking - lay down the rule that if EITHER (so she does not feel picked on) kid objects loudly or otherwise to the sibling's choice of movie/music, whatever when it is their turn to pick - then the objecting sibling LOOSES their next turn.

 

So - complain when dear brother's song plays and you will hear TWO of them, not just one. Etc.

[Citrusheights5]

I have one Ds who we thought was miserable. Despite the fact that we have had many conversations with him, he just is. When he gets overly boo-hooey, we call him Eeyore. We all joke that he is going to be the grumpy old man on the block yelling "GET OFF MY LAWN!!!" We joke that the perfect job for him is IRS tax enforcement, since he loves his rules, and just gets a kick out making sure they are all followed. We've accepted him as he is. More importantly he owns who he is. Dh and I would be miserable if we lived like that, but he is not.. That is just who he is. We don't like it. We tell him, that he can be that way, but we don't have to tolerate it. Just like the outside world, there are not a lot of people who will put up with his little black cloud of blah, it is not an attractive trait. It is not something I WANT to be around. Since "acceptance", he has grown tremendously, and now understands that in order to be around us he has to act a certain way, and therefore does. Fundamentally he is still a crotchety old man at 13. He has been this way since birth. This may not apply to your child, but I wanted to put it out there, it takes all kinds to make the world go round. I wish I could make them what I wanted them to be...

 

A second point of view.. I have one DD, and 5 DS. DH has very little understanding of the female gender. Everything she did, he took as -willful and deliberate XXXXXX.. He felt that she should be able to just "get" certain things. In his heart he felt he was doing the right thing by holding her up to the same standard that he held the boys up to. I had to explain that girls are fundamentally different. For example (and please know this is not a universal 100% in all cases) to make different genders try harder : Girls need to be built up a bit or else they think they are not good enough, strong enough, and will not try. Boys need a bit of tearing down for them to try harder. DH though by offering a "challenge" that would inspire DD. Nope... sorry... that works for all of OUR boys.. but just made DD think why bother, I could never do that. Again.. not sure if it applies to your child, but these are somethings that worked in our house..

[TXMomof4]

This sounds JUST like my DD.

 

For her it is mostly anxiety. I wouldn't ever have guessed that. Her therapist brought it up and we ended up putting her on Celexa. She was a totally different kid.

 

I'm not saying medication is the only answer - for us it came after YEARS of this - but anxiety/depression is something to consider. I can't tell you how much this has changed our lives and the dynamics of our family. My only regret is that I didn't do something sooner.

 

:iagree: Some of it may be age, but sometimes it's more. You know - you're the mom. My two older girls were difficult somedays but it always seemed to even out. DD3 didn't have better days - just less bad days, KWIM? We started seeing a psychiatrist in Jan. and she was clearly dx'ed with generalized anxiety disorder. It showed itself in several ways, but the worse the anxiety, the meaner she got. In hindsight I see clearly that her lack of ability to handle a situation made her angry and it came out as meanness.

[Audrey]

I know there are other methods, I'm just telling you what would happen at my house.

 

There would be a sit-down between parents & dd, where consequences would be explained:

 

"We see you displaying {list unacceptable behaviors} and because we love you and because it is our responsibility as parents to help you proceed successfully in life, we've decided upon some consequences. The consequences begin now, and will continue until we feel you've learned, matured, and are able to prove your maturity in tangible ways {kindness to others, including brother}."

 

In our house the consequences would be rather strict, since unkindness would be looked upon as one of the worst infractions. So, with that in mind, we'd probably do this:

 

No screen time for that particular kid, or alternatively, *earned* screen time, by serving others.

Early bedtime, to make sure it's not grumps from tiredness.

We'd curtail outside activities.

That particular kid would be doing lots of physical, moderately strenuous labor. Weeds would be pulled, baseboards would be wiped, floors scrubbed, pets bathed, elderly people visited & helped with housework, etc. I would do those things along with dd, emphasizing service to others as something that is not a punishment, but simply a way of life that we'd mistakenly not taught her yet. In our home, it's part of our religious tradition to include abundant service, so we'd be explaining that it's not possible to love the Lord and at the same time be unkind to people. Serving those who are unable to serve themselves leaves a *lot* less time for selfishness/unkindness.

 

If teaching her lovingly in that way didn't help at all, then I'd probably seek professional counseling for her, for possible depression or resentment issues.

 

I think it's important to transmit the idea that it's not necessarily punitive, but that you've inadvertently neglected somehow to teach her this important skill, and you're going to help her fix the problem now.

 

ETA: I realize that my viewpoint may come across as not really addressing the problem of unkindness to her brother, and it's possible that dd already performs many acts of service towards others. I would suspect though, that there's more room for loving other people in general, and that the point is a striving towards loving *all people* (obviously mentioning brother) and showing it in tangible ways.

 

The above would be similar to our approach, especially the bolded. We have a saying in our house: "work out your bad attitude." This applies to the adults, too. If you are being a snot, then you need to get your hands into some hard physical work until you've worked out that bad attitude.

[cin]

We have had a similar issue at our house, although in our case it's ds who is Mr. Misery and dd who is (usually, but not always) getting picked at by her brother. Interestingly, cracking down on it seemed to make it worse, not better. But these days they're generally pretty good friends. Some things that seemed to help:

 

1 - Have a sense of humor. "Woo hoo! You are hereby awarded the prize for the best put-upon sigh of the entire day! Silly goose. Go find something to do." or "Wow, that was a fabulous whine, do you think you could do that again? Say, 'I love anchovies' using that same tone. Hee hee! I love it. Now say, 'Great garrulous gorillas!'" I've found that almost nothing stops an unpleasant tone faster than not taking it seriously. Getting upset and handing out punishments just validates the moodiness and feeds the funk and turns it into a power struggle. By making it a game, or joking around a little you can either defuse or short circuit the nastiness. Something to be careful of here, though, is that your joviality needs to be as genuine and sincere as possible. You are not mocking the child, as that will just make it worse. You need to at least seem as though you find their childishness delightfully amusing (and not in the least bit threatening or confrontational). As much as possible, invite the child to participate in the humor. Maybe you could tell the child that because she's the record-holder for the most put-upon sigh, now she has to judge the competition, and you can give some melodramatic renditions of your own for her to score. Or you can let her make up silly things for YOU to say in a whiney voice. "Now it's my turn. Do you think I can whine that well too? Quick, give me something to say." Ham it up.

 

 

 

Thank you SO MUCH for this advice. Our DD has just started on prozac (diagnosed with depression and anxiety) and while her attitude has changed, the HABITS are still there. We have to work on breaking those, and this would help a TON. For EVERYBODY. Including her poor little sister who has been bearing the brunt of her attitude. :glare: