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What is the most spiral math curriculum out there?


happycc
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I am seeking the MOST spiral math curriculum....It reviews and reviews and reviews until you as the parent is about to barf but your kid is finally retaining something.

 

I know there are several kinds of spiral math curriculums.

I am seeking one that maybe introduces maybe one lesson a week or one every couple of days but reviews all the past ones.

 

I am using Right Start B but still not enough reviews. I am making task cards for them so we will do about 5-10 task cards (one task per card) on all the warm up questions/activities/games a day every day. But all this takes time.

 

I have TT 3 on order for her as well but not sure if that is enough even enough.

 

I ask for more hands on than writing based curriculum. The writing seems to go through one hand and out the other it seems.

Edited by happycc
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I have to say, TT was not cutting it for us because I have a math oriented kid whom is already taking the engineering path dad is so it was not quite enough. HOWEVER, and big however here, if I had a child who was having a hard time grasping or needed tons of review, I would use it as stand alone. Maybe the part on multiple digit long addition would need a little more outside TT, but DS was annoyed to no end with the review. He is one to get it right away though, so naturally this would bother him. I, on the other hand thought it was nice LOL. I suspect DD may not love math, and if she does not, I have no problem whatsoever using TT with her. i would say try to give it a go, and don't use anything else at the start just so she gets in a routine and isn't overwhelmed. Once she is understanding and retaining, and enjoys math THEN add in if needed.

 

They have some calendar practice, angles, word problems and such and everything is constantly reviewed IMO. If possible, get headphones for the computer. When DS used this for a short time he used headphones and was totally able to zone in on the lesson.

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What exactly does spiral mean?

What exactly does incremental mean?

 

I want something connecting not disjointed. I don;t want them to be learning place value one day and then the next day learning geometry stuff.

 

Review of it is fine if is scattered but not the learning part...Like they can review place values problems along with Roman numerals and geometry only and only if they have had those lessons already.

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Saxon reviews everything to death. It is probably exactly what you're looking for. It is considered incremental rather than spiral, though it does have a spiral element to it (in that it cycles back to the same material again and again). Saxon K-3 have a lot of manipulative work, though there is also a paper and pencil element.

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What exactly does spiral mean?

What exactly does incremental mean?

 

I want something connecting not disjointed. I don;t want them to be learning place value one day and then the next day learning geometry stuff.

 

Review of it is fine if is scattered but not the learning part...Like they can review place values problems along with Roman numerals and geometry only and only if they have had those lessons already.

 

Well with TT, the new lesson would be the main focus, and the rest would be reviews from prior lessons. I'm looking in my book here:

 

Book 3 starts out with basic addition/subtraction and counting. Lesson 3 is ODD AND EVEN NUMBERS. That would be the lecture, then there would be problems of odd/even numbers, then problems from the previous lesson of basic additon/subtraction. Lesson 4 is calendar/months of year. Lecture on months of year, then questions about calendar, then a few odd/even problems, a few basic addition/subtraction.

 

Skipping ahead a bit, lesson 8 is DOUBLES. The lecture is about doubles, then practice doubles with several questions, then a few problems from each prior such as calendar, basic math facts, and a few word problems.

 

Nothing is added randomly, as in each NEW lesson is lectured on, then the problems after are of the newly taught lesson and a little bit from each prior.

 

Hope that helps a little. I think it does a very good job of reviewing.

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I was not a fan of Saxon's K-3, but I definitely appreciate the spiral in 5/4 and up. Each problem also notes the lesson in which the concept was taught, so my kids can go back on their own to brush up if they've forgotten. Admittedly, I've had to do that myself a few times, and I was an honors math student, lol.

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I vote CLE :) I like it because you can do the work in the workbook as opposed to using a textbook like Saxon and Rod and Staff use. There is a lot of review and within the workbook they implement fact review with speed drills. (my kids liked to watch their time improve each time they did a speed drill as they graphed their results).

 

Here's a sample lesson from the 3rd grade book:

 

http://www.clp.org/documents/2652/original/Math_305.pdf

 

Here's a sample from the 6th grade book:

 

http://www.clp.org/documents/2734/original/Math_607.pdf

 

I would just pull out manipulatives (counters, base-ten blocks and fraction pieces) when your student needs them. As your student practices with the manipulatives he/she eventually won't need them as often.

Edited by Mandamom
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What exactly does spiral mean?

What exactly does incremental mean?

 

Ok, so spiral is going to be one topic each day, with lots of review topics in the lesson. For example, in CLE, you might be learning factoring (taking a grade 4 example here because I've looked at it recently), do some factoring problems, then you move on to the "We Remember" section where you review past topics. There is also a "Skill Building" section with basic 4 operations practice at the appropriate level. You can look at their scope and sequence document to see how they present the topics.

 

Incremental means you're getting a tiny piece at a time each day. My experience is with Saxon 1st grade... The homework sheet (which was the same as the classwork sheet but with different numbers) basically looked the same from day to day, but one little thing might change. So while they were working on addition and subtraction facts via drill sheets, they'd still have a problem on the worksheets that involved coloring 6 of 8 squares red and then determining how many weren't colored. By mid-first grade, I think that should be unnecessary. :tongue_smilie: Also, sometimes Saxon would introduce a topic during the classtime but NOT have that topic on the worksheets until several lessons later. That part would drive me nuts, personally. I think Saxon 5/4 and up don't do that, but I haven't used them. The K-3 grades are different from 5/4 and up.

 

Do take a look at CLE. My friend's DD uses it, and let me tell you, she knows her measurements and facts and everything else. You can't forget. :D It's also making sense. That child started out math phobic, and now she loves math and is soaring ahead.

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Saxon uses an incramental approach. They introduce concepts in baby steps, rather than introducing a fuller scope of a topic. The assignments have a handful of practice problems that cover the newly introduced concept. Most of the assignment is practice. IMO, Saxon feels more random. One day you will learn about area, the next about fractions, the next about geometry. Then . . . the next week you're learning about area again. However, when you revisit area you are diving in a little deeper, thus reviewing what was introduced previously.

 

Horizons uses an spiral approach. They introduce a concept over a period of time. At least half of the assignment covers new things learned, the other half of the assignment is review of past concepts.

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I am seeking the MOST spiral math curriculum....It reviews and reviews and reviews until you as the parent is about to barf but your kid is finally retaining something.

 

I know there are several kinds of spiral math curriculums.

I am seeking one that maybe introduces maybe one lesson a week or one every couple of days but reviews all the past ones.

 

I am using Right Start B but still not enough reviews. I am making task cards for them so we will do about 5-10 task cards (one task per card) on all the warm up questions/activities/games a day every day. But all this takes time.

 

I have TT 3 on order for her as well but not sure if that is enough even enough.

 

I ask for more hands on than writing based curriculum. The writing seems to go through one hand and out the other it seems.

 

if this is for your 7yo, it may just be a maturity issue. i learned this the hard way with my 10yo ds. he could not grasp or retain basic arithmetic. upon the advice of a wtmer, i ended up delaying formal math until he reached 10. now i am using both MM and CLE and he is breezing by!:)

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TT has just the right amount of review -- especially now since dd is doing prealg. Thankfully her TT lessons still backtrack to review fractions, decimals, percents, long mult, div (although many prealg problems are filled with those operations).

 

In the lower levels (TT 3 - 6) I let my dds skip problems when they obviously know the material upside down & backwards.

 

We have used Horizons also (grades 1 & 2) and it does have visual appeal -- but wwwwaaaaaayyyyyy too much review for me. I found myself throwing entire workbook pages in the recycling bin.

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We have used Horizons also (grades 1 & 2) and it does have visual appeal -- but wwwwaaaaaayyyyyy too much review for me. I found myself throwing entire workbook pages in the recycling bin.

 

I'm a fan of CLE, but I think you are looking for Horizons. This quote, above, shows that it has what you are looking for in terms of review. IMO, you'll need to work on adding the "hands on" for each lesson. (The Horizons TM has suggestions for using manipulatives, but they list "flash cards" the most often. Flash Cards are not manipulatives in my eyes! They use "clock models" quite a bit.)

 

CLE will introduce something new (almost) every lesson. It will either build/expand on a previous lesson or introduce something new. There is plenty of review. It might introduce new things too often for what you are looking for.

 

Horizons will stay on a topic closer to a week - expanding on it each day, while reviewing past things (measurement, clocks, geometry) also.

 

I would not go with Saxon (too much jumping around based on what you asked for).

 

IMO, if you don't know & want to see, look at the placement tests for both & order a sample workbook of Horizons (a semester's worth of work) and a Light Unit (around a month of work) of CLE. Neither one will break the bank. (You shouldn't need the teacher's edition for either at this level for the "sampling" you are doing.)

 

Horizons has samples on Christianbook.com. CLE has samples on their site.

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Abeka (which I use & I think it'll jump around topics too much for what you are looking for) schedules in manipulatives if you are using the "Lesson Plans" (not teacher's manual, extra $30).

 

Horizons, at the lower levels, suggests manipulatives in the Teacher's Manual. I don't have a TM, so I can't tell you HOW MUCH (samples seem to indicate "some" manipulatives). It isn't going to be as "hands on" as Right Start.

 

Math U See has lots of hands-on, but less review. (There is apparently more built-in review than I ever thought they had. But it won't be as much as Horizons, CLE, Saxon, or Abeka.)

 

I have never owned one of CLE's Teacher's Manuals, but I think they have minimal use of manipulatives. You'd have to build them in.

 

You can ADD review to any manipulative-heavy program. You can ADD manipulatives to any review-heavy program.

 

Which one will you be able to do more successfully?

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CLE 100 TM does have some hands-on suggestions. It's not totally manipulative based though. After 1st grade, I don't remember many manipulative suggestions. But my kids just push them aside after the instruction anyway.

 

We love CLE! The review is just right to keep it in their heads. It teaches at their level so I can read the lesson to them and they understand it. Math has never been a struggle here with CLE. We move into Saxon in the upper grades.

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I don't think you want spiral (necessarily). You want extra review, done incrementally, in a hands on way if possible.

 

But you're already doing one of the most hands on programs there is with Right Start. You could either add something like Miquon or MUS, which will be really hands on, but not much review, or something like what is being recommended here mostly, like Saxon (or CLE or Horizons, though I have zero experience with those, so I can't speak to them at all).

 

I think there's also something to the suggestion that maturity may have something to do with it. When the concepts are grasped (which is the focus of RS and Miquon) then that comprehension will follow naturally and children will gain fluency by working things out repeatedly, understanding the concepts. The philosophy of a lot of these other programs is that you can do it the other way around - drill until the kid has the fluency and then the conceptual understanding will follow. I think maybe you can do a little of both (and some kids undoubtedly need to drill facts), but I would personally be hesitant to go full force with both of those approaches, which is sort of where it seems like you might be headed.

 

But that's just my personal 2 cents. Feel free to disregard.

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I actually find Abeka to be very hands on. Every day I'm pulling out our manipulatives. There's also a lot of times they get flash cards to do stuff with. Then it's reinforced with the worksheets, sometimes I let my kids keep the manips out to use while they do the worksheets.

I've started to skip some review stuff with my first grader because we're both having review overload.

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You might take a look at Jump Math. It is workbook but uses a lot of visuals in teaching the material.

 

http://jumpmath1.org/

 

They recommend that actual Jump Math workbooks (2 books per year) along with the lesson plans on the website) if you are going to use it as your main curriculum. There is also a Jump at Home workbook which is more for helping a student who already had a main math class but needs extra work on the concepts.

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may be still be too hard for my daughter. She may need more handholding. In fact I know she will need more.

 

 

I was reading another person's comment and she recommended 3-4 different math programs to get a kid moving forward. One on the level, one for fun and one for review. I think Right Start is basically on the level, TT3 is one for fun (she is a computer addict) and I need one for the review.....

Edited by happycc
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may be still be too hard for my daughter. She may need more handholding. In fact I know she will need more.

 

 

I was reading another person's comment and she recommended 3-4 different math programs to get a kid moving forward. One on the level, one for fun and one for review. I think Right Start is basically on the level, TT3 is one for fun (she is a computer addict) and I need one for the review.....

 

Have you considered Evan-Moor's Daily Math Practice? The lesson is very quick and short (5 questions a day covering a variety of math topics).

 

They also have a Daily Word Problems book.

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Many, if not all, programs can be tweaked to have that spiral-type review built in. We do MM, but not every question. If I wanted to, I could rotate back through the sections, doing questions we skipped as a quick review each day.

 

And actually, MM has a great supplement that comes with it called a cumulative review, which covers all concepts from all the units studied up to that point--so, for example, when you finish unit 5, there's a cumulative review for units 1 - 5.

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I was reading another person's comment and she recommended 3-4 different math programs to get a kid moving forward. One on the level, one for fun and one for review. I think Right Start is basically on the level, TT3 is one for fun (she is a computer addict) and I need one for the review.....

 

My eventual goal for all three of my kids is to get them to use Singapore math.

 

Oh my heavens! Here is another person's comment: Don't spiral till you barf. No 3-4 math programs. I think I read that you don't have TT yet. Don't buy anything else. Put your credit card away.

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Oh my heavens! Here is another person's comment: Don't spiral till you barf. No 3-4 math programs. I think I read that you don't have TT yet. Don't buy anything else. Put your credit card away.

 

I agree. You don't want to overload a non-math-loving child with a million programs. Rightstart and a little bit extra to review should be plenty. The person that had one at level, one for fun, one for review... I don't think she was using full math curriculum for each of those. She had living books for fun.

 

So you have Rightstart for your at level, and TT for your fun/review (just use it a bit behind Righstart). That should be plenty. You don't want the child doing math 8 hours a day and hating it, ya know?

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and that even looks like it takes Great leaps too. I am not sure she can handle even that.

 

I even looked at the lower level....it was too easy such as just writing your numbers and then jumps to double digit adding.....huh?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by great leaps? If you are looking for spiral, in some lessons it will go from counting to adding, to telling time, basic geometry, etc. It's all review and it won't be in the "you can do this" or the "we remember section" unless it was taught in a previous lesson.

 

We are working through CLE100. We're on the 3rd book and the biggest leap we've had so far is adding three single digit numbers together. They do add double digits in the first grade which is age appropriate later in the year. But they generally build up skills. Is the sample maybe skipping a few lessons?

 

I'm still not understanding what you are looking for and why you need 3 programs. The only other thing that we used and liked was BJU. But the TM is made for a private school setting and it required some work to get through it. They use manipulatives. It's mastery but it builds in review. It's complete so I'm not sure how well it would work to use another program because I thought it required more work on my part than CLE does.

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that needs to be lamblasted with a subject before she finally gets it.

 

She needs to eat, sleep and drink that subject before she gets anywhere.

 

Last year she began not even knowing her letters.

 

I had worked for years to get her to know them.

 

Her teacher basically just focused on getting her to read for that whole year with classwork and response to intervention and some other pull out program. Of course she did other subjects but not to the extent of getting her phonics and reading down. At home the teacher sent me home with even more reading/phonics type of stuff (spelling). She can read now.

 

I am going to lamblast her with math this year. My goal is for her to understand math. Last year it was just plain rote memory of facts. But she had no idea what it meant. This year she finally understands that two parts make a whole..thanks to Right Start B-yeehah. Now onto place value and learning her shapes. She still struggles with her shapes. Like triangle, rectangle and square.

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Happy, is this the same dd8 that you had the other thread about where you had such a terrible day? I just read that, and I'm feeling really horrible for you. You said you know she has some LDs. Do you actually know what they are? I'm just asking, because that ought to make a difference in your mind. It sounds like you already know she's not going to keep on a regular curriculum track, not even if you are a grade or two behind. So instead of trying to put her through a regular curriculum, what if you did something really DIFFERENT? Listening to what you're describing (and having used it), I honestly don't see how RS can fit her. It's just plain not going to fit her.

 

What might work is to split her math into say 3 sessions a day. Session 1 is with you and it's 15 minutes of something totally hands-on. Count coins, build with blocks and talk about the shapes, do things with C-rods, the book Kitchen Table math, anything from Marilyn Burns, that sort of thing. Second session is something she does on a program on the computer. Not you, because it sounds like only a robot could rise to the level of sainthood necessary. So you're looking for a math robot. Could be Teaching Textbooks. Could be some math software she likes. (Sorry, I'm not up on everything.) Third session let it be specifically working on math facts, if that's something you think she's capable of doing. Again, that could be an app on an iPad or android phone, that sort of thing.

 

Does she need to be evaluated again? With what you described about the animal behaviors and how she was acting with you, it made me think she has some processing issues that haven't been diagnosed that are holding her back. Sometimes, like with visual processing, there's actual therapy for it. Sometimes there's not. But I'll just toss that out anyway.

 

R&S will send you free samples. Have you looked at their math? It *might* be streamlined enough to work for her. But she doesn't sound like she's ready to do much paper math. She sounds like she might need more useful, functional math, things that interact with her world. Do you play store with her? I mean seriously, break out the money, play store, and let that count for math time! Buy her a cash register rather than a new curriculum. If it's play and they're having fun, they make more neural connections. She may not be ready to do written math. If she has CAPD, I'm no help to you. I'm just saying don't be afraid to do something really, really different. You won't hurt her, and it might help.

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Happy, is this the same dd8 that you had the other thread about where you had such a terrible day? I just read that, and I'm feeling really horrible for you. You said you know she has some LDs. Do you actually know what they are? I'm just asking, because that ought to make a difference in your mind. It sounds like you already know she's not going to keep on a regular curriculum track, not even if you are a grade or two behind. So instead of trying to put her through a regular curriculum, what if you did something really DIFFERENT? Listening to what you're describing (and having used it), I honestly don't see how RS can fit her. It's just plain not going to fit her.

 

What might work is to split her math into say 3 sessions a day. Session 1 is with you and it's 15 minutes of something totally hands-on. Count coins, build with blocks and talk about the shapes, do things with C-rods, the book Kitchen Table math, anything from Marilyn Burns, that sort of thing. Second session is something she does on a program on the computer. Not you, because it sounds like only a robot could rise to the level of sainthood necessary. So you're looking for a math robot. Could be Teaching Textbooks. Could be some math software she likes. (Sorry, I'm not up on everything.) Third session let it be specifically working on math facts, if that's something you think she's capable of doing. Again, that could be an app on an iPad or android phone, that sort of thing.

 

Does she need to be evaluated again? With what you described about the animal behaviors and how she was acting with you, it made me think she has some processing issues that haven't been diagnosed that are holding her back. Sometimes, like with visual processing, there's actual therapy for it. Sometimes there's not. But I'll just toss that out anyway.

 

R&S will send you free samples. Have you looked at their math? It *might* be streamlined enough to work for her. But she doesn't sound like she's ready to do much paper math. She sounds like she might need more useful, functional math, things that interact with her world. Do you play store with her? I mean seriously, break out the money, play store, and let that count for math time! Buy her a cash register rather than a new curriculum. If it's play and they're having fun, they make more neural connections. She may not be ready to do written math. If she has CAPD, I'm no help to you. I'm just saying don't be afraid to do something really, really different. You won't hurt her, and it might help.

 

:iagree::grouphug:

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Thank you so much for your encouragement. We have taken her to regional center two years ago and she may be due up for another one. They didn't find anything that time but maybe some learning difficulties and to go back to the school. The school wasn;t too much help(they wouldnt test her for ld) except for the response to intervention program they sent her in for one semester.

 

She recently took the WRAT through our charter school and apparently scored well. So something else is going on. All I can say it must be a bit of motivation or compliance too because if she can score well on the WRAT then why is it when we ask her what a square is she says "triangle" ?

 

 

It is all very very confusing. I am working on her animal screams cause it needs to stop. It is very annoying for everyone. I just remind her those screams are for the outside play time. It is getting better a bit.

 

Regards to crying during schoolwork...I told her no more of that cause we are not giving up. We will continue and press on. I am just not giving up on her and make things easier for her until some kind of testing shows otherwise.

 

Maybe I am wrong...but it is my gut feeling until I see some kind of evidence or get some kind of diagnosis. There is this one program I think would help her. I am working on getting a trial for it. It is dt trainer.

http://www.dttrainer.com/

 

This will give her the review that she requires.

Edited by happycc
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I don't know what your regional center is, but she needs to be evaluated by a neuropsychologist. Then they can steer you toward more evals (auditory processing, etc.). Just as a matter of course, I'd also get her eyes checked. A developmental optometrist checks things that affect school work that a regular one misses. http://www.covd.org to find one. You can do a regular vision exam with them and just let them *screen* to see if there happen to be those other issues going on, or they can do the whole eval. But it's the neuropsych that evaluates for autism, LDs, etc. If you haven't had that, that's what I'd do. Clearly what's going on is outside the range of normal, and it's going to show up if she gets evaluated again. The school systems sometimes don't evaluate for everything, because then they have to pay for what they find, ie. they're not very motivated. That's why you end up needing to go private.

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