Are we (parents/child) old fuddy-duddies?

[distancia]

Our DD is currently in college and having a rough time. She went to school--a GOOD school, an academic school--thinking she would have "the college experience". She envisioned herself sitting in a library among busts (statue heads, that is) of great thinkers, poring over books....going back to her dorm room and sharing quiet talks with roommates, listening to classical music, cooking a healthy meal, and then studying in the living room of the apartment among her roommates, who would also be quietly studying.

 

Well, this isn't happening. Of course the library is modern with overhead fluorescent lighting; the quiet talks are a late-night game of Wii, and the healthy meals are scrambled eggs and toast, all she can muster up in a tiny kitchenette with limited facilities. There is noise up and down the building corridors all night, banging (exterior) doors, smoke-filled hallways...I've discussed this before on this forum, that this is a GOOD and highly selective school. Weekends are party time and the music is supposed to end at 2 am, but usually goes until 3 or 4.

 

So we're doing research as DD is desperate to have a "normal" life like she had here at home, when she was a h/s senior and taking f/t classes at the local cc. She went to bed at 11 pm, woke (well rested) at 7:30 am, made her coffee, watched BBC world news, ate a healthy breakfast, and then headed off to comm coll. Everything was peaceful, calm, and conducive to studying.

 

DD is thinking of transferring to another school, one that offers Honors housing or an Intensive Study building...anything where the students are a bit more scholarly. So I've called around, several colleges and universities.

 

The Res Life people are laughing at me! They tell me these are different times, there is so much more happening on campus, these kids have electronics and TVs and computers and video games, fitness centers open around the clock, sports events and pep rallies, parties every night...yes, there are quiet hours, but--conspiratorial tone here, spoken by the Res Life Director--"kids will be kids. Things aren't the same as when we were in school."

 

And when I asked about living with the upperclassmen (my dd already does) I was told that the seniors are the WORST, the 21 year-olds are loud and impatient to graduate. Hello!!! Whatever happened to senior thesis and seminar and internships?

 

Anyone?

[Candid]

This won't help but Tom Wolfe's novel I am Charlotte Simmons could be enlightening.

 

I think despite the novel and what the residence hall folks are saying, your daughter could have that more in depth, but I suspect that residence hall life is out and she'll need to search for suitable companions to have late night intellectual discussions.

[LinRTX]

Well the only way that my daughter could have what you are talking about (minus the discussions with roommates) was to have her own apartment. She studies in quiet and cooks fairly healthy meals.

 

Linda

[Michelle in AL]

Where in the country are you?

 

Samford in Birmingham, AL appeared to us to be very serious, quiet, almost no kids roaming the campus during the day even, and statues and busts galore!

 

Do you have relatives she could live with in order to commute to school (any local uni)? It sounds like any school would be tolerable, as long as she doesn't have to actually stay on campus.

[mcconnellboys]

I would think that you might find more of this at some very conservative, straight-laced colleges but don't know if there are any in your area....

 

The way we escaped unwanted noise, etc. on campus when I was in college 30+ years ago was to have our own apartments.... Even then, if you have loud neighbors you might be disturbed....

[distancia]

We're in the Sunshine State :001_smile:.

 

DD's current school requires all students to live on campus until age 21. Even so, the majority of students over the age of 21 still live on campus.

 

DD is only 18 and we are okay with her living off-campus, as long as she is close to school AND she has some decent roommates. She has a car, but still...we don't want her driving any more than 7 minutes or so, adding another 5 on for parking. She has given up sleeping her her dorm where she is and has returned home and commutes, which is 40 minutes each way. When she's really tired (she has a class until 10 pm!) she stays over in her dorm, but she doesn't sleep well. And try being up for an 8 am class!

 

I guess she will have to think about off-campus housing.

[FourOaks]

I was in college 24 years ago and there were no cell phones, laptops, iPads, iPods and all other such devices. BUT there was NOTHING even close to what you are describing as the wanted "college experience". Things were loud, parties all the time, doors slamming, people running up and down the hallways, we only had our food service meals or hot pots to cook junk, very few people studying -- at least in the residence halls. I can only imagine that things have gotten worse instead of better.

 

I don't know where you'll find the type of environment your daughter is looking for, but please let use know if you do! I would love something like that for my dd when she goes to college, so I really would like to hear from others who may actually have found some colleges that offer a more quiet study atmosphere.

[Elinor Everywhere]

I was in college 24 years ago and there were no cell phones, laptops, iPads, iPods and all other such devices. BUT there was NOTHING even close to what you are describing as the wanted "college experience". Things were loud, parties all the time, doors slamming, people running up and down the hallways, we only had our food service meals or hot pots to cook junk, very few people studying -- at least in the residence halls. I can only imagine that things have gotten worse instead of better.

 

 

This was my experience 30 years ago, at a small, private school. I love what the OP's dd wants, and I would LOVE for my dd to want (and find) that, but I've never seen it. Although perhaps her idea of an honors dorm or something of that sort would work. By the way, when I was in college, I was one of the party people. Hindsight's 20/20....:tongue_smilie:

I wonder how much of this atmosphere one can suss out during a campus visit? Do you really get a real feel for the campus during a visit, or do the guides put the best possible gloss on any given school? Perhaps every campus visit should include a 3am visit to the dorms?

 

It sounds like your daughter has no peers at college. I don't know how big the institution is, but even if it is small, and even if the vast majority of students are there to party, there must be a significant number of serious student there. The trick is for her to find them. Can she look for campus groups where such serious students might be found? Our friends with college kids find similarly oriented peer though activities like the Putnam exam study group, the international club, robotics team, etc.

[tex-mex]

I would think that you might find more of this at some very conservative, straight-laced colleges but don't know if there are any in your area....

 

The way we escaped unwanted noise, etc. on campus when I was in college 30+ years ago was to have our own apartments.... Even then, if you have loud neighbors you might be disturbed....

Um. No.

 

Attended a straight laced Christian college and the dorms were exactly the same as a public college. Only smaller in proportion. Still had the crazy late night life, parties, suicides, pregnancies, rowdy behavior, etc.

 

Nowadays the colleges offer certain dorms to be quiet zones for those students who do not party or like loud music from the neighbors. I agree with the poster who suggested an off campus apartment. She needs to be careful of the future roomies is not a party girl and wrecks the soothing quiet she desires.

[tex-mex]

I was in college 24 years ago and there were no cell phones, laptops, iPads, iPods and all other such devices. BUT there was NOTHING even close to what you are describing as the wanted "college experience". Things were loud, parties all the time, doors slamming, people running up and down the hallways, we only had our food service meals or hot pots to cook junk, very few people studying -- at least in the residence halls. I can only imagine that things have gotten worse instead of better.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Susan C.]

Well, both of my dc have decided to go to the small local four-year and live at home. The college allows students to be exempt from living on campus if they live within 50 miles of the campus. We filled out a form for that and I think had to have it notarized. Ds is an English major, so he gets his discussions. The English majors are a tight small group. He can stay around for fun, then come home when he wants to sleep (and eat). Dd wants to go there next year.

 

Both dc are quiet people that like healthy cooking, peace and quiet, and SLEEP!

[msk]

I had plenty of intellectual discussions with friends in college, but as I recall all the best ones took place very late at night!

 

I have never heard of a college where the majority of students seek the kind of lifestyle your daughter does. There were many very serious students at my university, including what seemed like a zillion stressed-out perfectionist premeds, but even they were all up late and noisy any time they weren't studying, and no one ever slept enough. It sounds like she really needs to find a dedicated quiet dorm (an honors dorm most likely will not work-- see the premeds above) or live off campus. I was able to train myself to sleep though loud noises in college and adjusted my schedule to stay up late and sleep late to make up for it, but I imagine your daughter would have done that by now if it were physically possible for her.

[Medstudent]

I had plenty of intellectual discussions with friends in college, but as I recall all the best ones took place very late at night!

 

I have never heard of a college where the majority of students seek the kind of lifestyle your daughter does. There were many very serious students at my university, including what seemed like a zillion stressed-out perfectionist premeds, but even they were all up late and noisy any time they weren't studying, and no one ever slept enough. It sounds like she really needs to find a dedicated quiet dorm (an honors dorm most likely will not work-- see the premeds above) or live off campus. I was able to train myself to sleep though loud noises in college and adjusted my schedule to stay up late and sleep late to make up for it, but I imagine your daughter would have done that by now if it were physically possible for her.

 

:iagree: Yeah, I went to college relatively recently and no one ever had that lifestyle. I was as studious as you're gonna get (I had to be), as were my friends, none of us were big drinkers or partiers but I dont think we ever would just come home from classes and listen to classical music, cook gourmet meals, discuss intellectual pursuits and sat in silence. We would have found that extremely bizarre. I guess if I had really wanted to be around old tomes and dusty shelves I could have probably gone to the law library and brought an ipod full of classical music...but I guess the lighting would have been fluorescent so that wouldn't work for your daughter either.

I'm not sure that any on campus housing on any campus will be quite like that. We had a "discussion" dorm of sorts with frequent lectures followed by discussion time, and it was pretty rowdy and some very strong opinions were always thrown out. The "healthy living", quiet dorm still had all the lights on all night and people would come back from the library at 3 am on a regular basis and the doors would slam when they entered and left. Honestly, I mean this in the best way, but it sounds like your daughter really just needs to become a little more flexible. This is what the "college experience" is. The food isn't super healthy, you don't get oodles of sleep, and even the most serious students feel the need to unwind.

I guess the issue that I have is the implication that you're either a "party kid" or a super serious, quiet student. I went to a nationally renowned school and took grad classes at an Ivy league, now I go to a well-respected medical school. In 9 years of post-high school education at some of the best universities in the country, I've never seen what you're describing. The intellectual conversations with the brilliant, serious academics are there, but they're interspersed with...well...normal life. Pizza, fluorescent lights, all nighters, parties on weekends. It doesn't make these students any less serious, I don't think.

 

Anyways, I'm with everyone else- the only way she'll find this kind of living is really off campus.

[Nan in Mass]

I was in college 24 years ago ... Things were loud, parties all the time, doors slamming, people running up and down the hallways, we only had our food service meals or hot pots to cook junk, very few people studying -- at least in the residence halls. I can only imagine that things have gotten worse instead of better.

 

My father was in school 60 years ago and his description sounds like this. My grandmother was in school in the 20s and her descriptions sounded like this. My own experience with large state schools was like this. My sister's experience at a LAC was like this. My own boys are on a "dry" campus, one where if you are caught with alcohol and someone less than 21, you are expelled, and although it cuts down on the drinking and drugs, it doesn't eliminate it. There are quiet study hours in some parts of the dorms, but people are coming and going at all hours. My oldest, who was 21 when he went, became weary quickly of having shaving cream squirted on him when he was in the toilet, doors duct-taped shut, and other shenanigans. My more playful 18yo enjoyed some of it, especially the middle-of-the-night games of flashlight tag through the dorms.

 

That said, we ALL have had the hours of serious conversation. I think you make that for yourself by latching on to a group of kindred spirits, as Jane in NC calls them, and going through college as a group.

 

Those conversation, the few profs I had who inspired me, the vast buffet of interesting classes to choose from (some of which proved not to be very interesting after all lol), being free to play tag at midnight, the intellectual exploration, both on my own and together, blundering through living on my own making mistakes and having to correct them, those are the things I think of as the college experience. I have to say that the living situation was awful. But I had my grandparents and my parents stories of how awful it was to forewarn me, and also their advice on how to cope, so I sort of took it for granted and wasn't shocked. I think it would have been very difficult if I hadn't been forewarned.

 

Nan

 

Nan

[Jane in NC]

Off campus neighborhoods near colleges are often noisy, too. Apartment complexes that cater to students may be louder than dorms on weekends. Many students at the LAC I attended lived within walking distance of campus in the older homes that had been converted into flats. This was probably a quieter option than the dorms.

 

My son's first year dorm at his LAC was noisier than his current arrangement, a foreign language dorm where students live in suites. But it is not quiet! His suite mates share his academic interests thus some are in the same classes. They have animated (not quiet) discussions--or so I gather.

 

Frankly my son does not have time to shop for and then cook healthy meals. It is a nice idea but not workable in his reality or that of many college students I would think. On weekends, maybe.

 

Your daughter has yet to complete a semester of college. Finding peers takes time, probably more so if she lives off campus.

[Grace is Sufficient]

It is not this:

 

She envisioned herself sitting in a library among busts (statue heads, that is) of great thinkers, poring over books....going back to her dorm room and sharing quiet talks with roommates, listening to classical music, cooking a healthy meal, and then studying in the living room of the apartment among her roommates, who would also be quietly studying.

 

 

But nor is it this:

 

 

There is noise up and down the building corridors all night, banging (exterior) doors, smoke-filled hallways...I've discussed this before on this forum, that this is a GOOD and highly selective school. Weekends are party time and the music is supposed to end at 2 am, but usually goes until 3 or 4.

 

Everyone living in that building has a merit scholarship which they will lose if they don't keep their grades up. My son has never mentioned partying or noise at night, and I think he would have.

 

It may be that she will need to look for a happy medium somewhere else.

[Leonor]

It may be that there is no idealistically perfect place.

 

However, your daughter is not the first person I know that has wanted to transfer out of the school she attends.

 

We live in Florida. I know someone whose daughter was looking forward to going there. She ended up transferring. She really didn't like it.

Not at all what she envisioned.

 

I don't know if she transferred after her freshman or sophomore year. I think it was after her freshman year.

[Garga]

Ideas:

 

Apartment off campus.

 

Earplugs (I wear them every night b/c of dh's snoring. It's itchy in the ears at first, but you get used to it.)

 

A public library for studying, somewhere off campus.

 

Try to find kindred spirits in other clubs/groups and slowly form a group.

[Barbara H]

Ideas:

 

Apartment off campus.

 

Earplugs (I wear them every night b/c of dh's snoring. It's itchy in the ears at first, but you get used to it.)

 

A public library for studying, somewhere off campus.

 

Try to find kindred spirits in other clubs/groups and slowly form a group.

 

I agree with all these suggestions. Finding like minded people and building a group of supportive friends are key. While quiet, serious kids may not be in the majority they are certainly out there at every school. Campus groups are a good way to find these peers.

 

Also, if there are mental health concerns seek out regular counseling and support. It is not uncommon for students who had smaller difficulties to find they are closer to crisis as they negotiate the college transition. It can be a difficult time of life for a lot of people.

[SunD]

This is the experience of a fuddy-duddy 25yo.

 

I had an experience close to what your DD is wanting, in high school. It was basically a boarding school for gifted students. We studied together, cooked Saturday brunch in the common room kitchen, did chores, tutored each other, and discussed everything from post-feminist interpretations of literature to the physics of Star Trek.

 

But ... of course there's the BUT, right? We were minors and our experience was controlled. We studied together and tutored each other because we had to in order to pass the very challenging classes. We cooked Saturday brunch because we were dorky and there was nothing else to do in the little town. We did chores because the RAs did weekly room inspections and they HAD to be clean. As for the discussions ... well, we did have those because we wanted to, but we also had occasional midnight showings of The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

 

College was very, very different. No one else seemed to be taking challenging classes, so they didn't have to study, or if they were challenged, they didn't care and soon flunked out. They slept until 2 pm on Saturday because they were hungover. They didn't do chores because nobody made them. And yes, they were loud at all hours of the night.

 

I dropped out. It was not what I wanted it to be and (compounded by other issues) I ended up burned out and depressed. I'm working on finishing online now, but I should have moved out with some like-minded friends and made college what I wanted it to be. That probably would have meant renting a HOUSE off-campus, because apartments in a college town can be worse than the dorms. There ARE other students wanting the same thing your DD was imagining, but they're not going to chance across each other through Res Life dorm assignments. They have to find each other. They're not common. And if that's the school culture and she has to live with it because of the housing rules, well, she might not be happy even if she lived with similar people because they would be surrounded by the general population.

Edited November 3, 2011 by SunD

[LuvingLife]

Our DD is currently in college and having a rough time. She went to school--a GOOD school, an academic school--thinking she would have "the college experience". She envisioned herself sitting in a library among busts (statue heads, that is) of great thinkers, poring over books....going back to her dorm room and sharing quiet talks with roommates, listening to classical music, cooking a healthy meal, and then studying in the living room of the apartment among her roommates, who would also be quietly studying.

 

Well, this isn't happening. Of course the library is modern with overhead fluorescent lighting; the quiet talks are a late-night game of Wii, and the healthy meals are scrambled eggs and toast, all she can muster up in a tiny kitchenette with limited facilities. There is noise up and down the building corridors all night, banging (exterior) doors, smoke-filled hallways...I've discussed this before on this forum, that this is a GOOD and highly selective school. Weekends are party time and the music is supposed to end at 2 am, but usually goes until 3 or 4.

 

So we're doing research as DD is desperate to have a "normal" life like she had here at home, when she was a h/s senior and taking f/t classes at the local cc. She went to bed at 11 pm, woke (well rested) at 7:30 am, made her coffee, watched BBC world news, ate a healthy breakfast, and then headed off to comm coll. Everything was peaceful, calm, and conducive to studying.

 

DD is thinking of transferring to another school, one that offers Honors housing or an Intensive Study building...anything where the students are a bit more scholarly. So I've called around, several colleges and universities.

 

The Res Life people are laughing at me! They tell me these are different times, there is so much more happening on campus, these kids have electronics and TVs and computers and video games, fitness centers open around the clock, sports events and pep rallies, parties every night...yes, there are quiet hours, but--conspiratorial tone here, spoken by the Res Life Director--"kids will be kids. Things aren't the same as when we were in school."

 

And when I asked about living with the upperclassmen (my dd already does) I was told that the seniors are the WORST, the 21 year-olds are loud and impatient to graduate. Hello!!! Whatever happened to senior thesis and seminar and internships?

 

Anyone?

 

All of this is the exact reason why I am living at home and going to my local CC, there is NO WAY I would survive three minutes on a campus like this, I am not the kind of person that can deal with stuff like that. I would just end up getting very irritated and probably say a few choice words to whoever should be enforcing the rules and to the students who are disturbing my beauty sleep!!:D I need sleep too, and as I am going to be majoring in nursing need a lot of sleep and study time where it is peaceful, so no college dorms or apartments for me!

 

I hope you get the situation figured out soon, your dd sounds like a very hard-working girl that needs peace and quiet at the end of the day. And no you are not an old fuddy-duddy, I would have loved to attend a college like the one you had imagined!!:)

[distancia]

This is the experience of a fuddy-duddy 25yo.

 

I had an experience close to what your DD is wanting, in high school.

 

College was very, very different. No one else seemed to be taking challenging classes, so they didn't have to study, or if they were challenged, they didn't care and soon flunked out. They slept until 2 pm on Saturday because they were hungover. They didn't do chores because nobody made them. And yes, they were loud at all hours of the night.

 

...I should have moved out with some like-minded friends and made college what I wanted it to be. That probably would have meant renting a HOUSE off-campus....There ARE other students wanting the same thing your DD was imagining, but they're not going to chance across each other through Res Life dorm assignments. They have to find each other. .

 

And that's probably where it's going to end up..trying to find similar young people with similar standards, who want an environment conducive to healthy living. So, off-campus it will have to be.

[JennyD]

I had plenty of intellectual discussions with friends in college, but as I recall all the best ones took place very late at night!

 

I have never heard of a college where the majority of students seek the kind of lifestyle your daughter does. There were many very serious students at my university, including what seemed like a zillion stressed-out perfectionist premeds, but even they were all up late and noisy any time they weren't studying, and no one ever slept enough. It sounds like she really needs to find a dedicated quiet dorm (an honors dorm most likely will not work-- see the premeds above) or live off campus. I was able to train myself to sleep though loud noises in college and adjusted my schedule to stay up late and sleep late to make up for it, but I imagine your daughter would have done that by now if it were physically possible for her.

 

:iagree:

 

I went to a very academically oriented LAC about 20 years ago. Not only were there no video games, etc., but we didn't even have phones in the rooms -- only one hall phone per hall (with a verrrrry long cord) and pay phones downstairs. Boy, I'm old.

 

Anyway, the college was and continues to be the antithesis of a party school, but even on my very quiet, all-women's hall, people were still up at all hours, talking, hanging out, etc. Serious studying was mostly done in the libraries, which were open -- and full -- until at least midnight, sometimes later.

 

I agree that off-campus housing may be the way to go for your daughter, but from all of your posts it also sounds like she's just generally having a tough time adjusting to college, which is so, so normal (my husband and I both teach at a university, FWIW.) Has she spoken to the dean of students at her school about all of this yet? Those folks can be very helpful, IME.

[mcconnellboys]

Yeah, you'd have to get her into an apartment building away from campus that was NOT inhabited by mostly college students or it wouldn't work. I moved to an apartment on the other side of the city from my school....

[distancia]

Is there something wrong with our family? My husband and I raised our DD to have an indoor voice (remember the rules of grammar school?) and to not slam the door, not turn the TV volume up loud, nor the stereo...not to shout from another room unless it's an emergency. Shouldn't that same courtesy be extended to others outside the home?

 

Can all that ^^be considered a negative?

 

We homeschooling parents wanted our children out of the chaotic public school system. So why is it suddenly now acceptable for our young adult children to be in the environment that just a year ago we were condemning?

 

Don't misunderstand, DD likes to have a good time. She can be loud and boisterous. She's sociable, she laughs a lot. But that's what she's learned you do out in the world, like at the beach, at the gym, or on a boat, or at the bowling alley or a dance party, or sitting on your front porch/patio, around the grill. Home is a quiet place, a place where you relax. It is not a place where you jump on the furniture, throw food across the room, punch holes in walls, play beer pong, or do other dumb things. At least, not in our home.

 

I think off-campus housing with similar souls--and they have to be out there, somewhere, our DD isn't that unique--is the answer.

Edited November 4, 2011 by distancia

[Jenny in Florida]

Is there something wrong with our family? My husband and I raised our DD to have an indoor voice (remember the rules of grammar school?) and to not slam the door, not turn the TV volume up loud, nor the stereo...not to shout from another room unless it's an emergency. Shouldn't that same courtesy be extended to others outside the home?

 

For what it's worth, I don't think there is anything wrong with your family or with your daughter. I don't think it's strange to want what she wants. It's what I would have wanted for college, too, had I been given any options. I'm an essentially quiet person, the only one in my family, and I can relate to your daughter's frustration.

 

I think she sounds wonderful. I hope she finds the right school for herself.

[mcconnellboys]

There may be several things at play here:

 

Some peoples' "indoor voices" are louder than others, they listen to their TV and music louder, they are just accustomed to a louder volume of noise in their lives. They are not trying to be obnoxious, they just live their lives differently. What is loud? That is rather subjective. One person's loud may not be that of another person.

 

I despise spending time in waiting rooms with TV's constantly blairing some horrid program at me. What gives the doctors there the right to subject me to such things that I would never listen to in my own home? And I'm stuck there and can't get away from it; it's always too loud; and I can not ever manage to find a way to turn it off (well, LOL, sometimes I do....)

 

Some people may have no way of monitoring their own volume control. I have a type of aphasia that not only results in slurring of speech at times, but causes my voice to sound very loud. When I get into an interesting conversation, the more interested I get, the louder I apparently get.... Apparently, according to my doctors, this is not all that unusual within society....

 

Some buildings are better insulated than others. I could swear that there's not a bit of insulation in the walls of our house. If we speak in a normal voice you can hear everything we say on the sidewalk in front of our house. What should we do, tear it down and start over? Whisper all the time? Dorms are notoriously noisy places. I'm not sure why on earth extra sound proofing wouldn't be included in the building of dorms, but it isn't (cost, I'm guessing).... Sound carries, particularly at night, so everything is naturally louder then, anyway, and if you add in the lack of sound proofing where you live, every sound can seem much larger than life.

 

I am getting to a point where I can hardly stand to stay in hotels because of door slamming. People who are going in and out of their rooms (groups staying together and visiting, etc.) fold back the metal guard so the door won't close and lock them out and then that thing bangs every time they go in or out of the room. Even if they don't use that, the automatic doors slam every time. It's like a screen door or any automatically closing door: it closes on its own and makes what I consider quite a loud sound. Within a long hall full of doors (as in a dorm), this would be magnified even more. People would have to stand and stop the door from closing on its own every single time they enter or exit a room in order to stop all the banging.... I don't know that your daughter's dorm has automatically closing doors, but many dorms do have those.

 

In short, much of the nuisance factor you've mentioned is going to be the same in any sort of public housing, whether apartment or dorm. Apartments are not so well insulated in general, either, and banging doors, stereos, the voices of others living around you, etc. can often be heard in apartment living, too....

[2squared]

I lived in an Honors dorm in college, and I am certain that is what saved college for me. The kids were more academic than the general population, and we had required 24 hours of quiet during the week. We did still have people up at all hours and overnight visitors. We still had non-academic fun all days of the week, and the weekends were loud. Music did get turned up and people did let their hair down.

 

My honors floor helped me survive the first two years until I hit my major classes. At that point I found my niche, my core group of friends, and we did stay up studying and having academic conversations. Even at that point, though, we sometimes hit the bars and had non-academic fun.

 

I think an Honors living situation would probably be much better for your dd, but it isn't going to be exactly what she is desiring. Not many adults live the way your dd is desiring, so I expect that even fewer teens are living that way.

[2squared]

Don't misunderstand, DD likes to have a good time. She can be loud and boisterous. She's sociable, she laughs a lot. But that's what she's learned you do out in the world, like at the beach, at the gym, or on a boat, or at the bowling alley or a dance party, or sitting on your front porch/patio, around the grill. Home is a quiet place, a place where you relax. It is not a place where you jump on the furniture, throw food across the room, punch holes in walls, play beer pong, or do other dumb things. At least, not in our home.

 

Home is a quiet place for those that want to recharge...an introvert. For an extrovert, home is a place with activity.

 

This is an interesting observation. We are much more reserved outside the home than at home. Home is our place to relax which means we are louder and more active here. Home is where we can laugh loudly at silly antics, have tickle fests and wrestling competitions, listen to loud music, and do all the dumb things that boys do. Our home is naturally louder than average, though, because we have a lot of people in a small space.

[regentrude]

Don't misunderstand, DD likes to have a good time. She can be loud and boisterous. She's sociable, she laughs a lot. But that's what she's learned you do out in the world, like at the beach, at the gym, or on a boat, or at the bowling alley or a dance party, or sitting on your front porch/patio, around the grill. Home is a quiet place, a place where you relax. It is not a place where you jump on the furniture, throw food across the room, punch holes in walls, play beer pong, or do other dumb things. At least, not in our home.

 

The typical student is stuck on campus all week and often on weekends, too. So, if they want to have parties, play games, socialize, they have to do this in their dorm rooms. And if they are in class until 10pm and then in the library doing homework until midnight, they will socialize at night.

 

Some behaviors you cited are obviously just dumb (throwing food and damaging walls) and nobody needs to act that way, but the idea that home means a quiet place is a strange one to me: we have parties at home, laugh and play and turn our music up loud - because where else could we do that without bothering strangers? (I do not think the gym or a river to be appropriate places for loudness.)

If I want quiet, I go to my office and work.

 

I really think your DD's expectations are unrealistic.

[Jane in NC]

This thread has taken an interesting twist in demonstrating how people view their homes and shared public spaces.

 

 

Don't misunderstand, DD likes to have a good time. She can be loud and boisterous. She's sociable, she laughs a lot. But that's what she's learned you do out in the world, like at the beach, at the gym, or on a boat, or at the bowling alley or a dance party, or sitting on your front porch/patio, around the grill.

 

Same with other public spots...your loudness intrudes on my occasion...I want to converse with my group at the beach, not have your group shouting and cackling loudly overrun it.

 

 

I'm with Heigh Ho. We own canoes and kayaks--no-octane boats. Motor boats and loud boaters are annoying to us since we are often on the water to watch birds or have a quiet paddle.

 

Many beaches have rules concerning radios or other music players. The volume is only to be heard within one's towel space. Frankly I'm ready for the no-cell beach!

 

I really think your DD's expectations are unrealistic.

 

:iagree:

[Kathy in Richmond]

Did your daughter check out the dorms, visit & stay overnight, talk to current students, etc, before she arrived on campus?

 

My kids both had some input into which dorm they lived in freshman year, and both selected dorms known for being more on the 'fun but intellectual and nerdy' side. Even so, they didn't experience what you and your daughter seem to desire. There are no enforced quiet study times. It can be noisy almost any time of the day or night; lots of kids stay up late into the night studying and blowing off steam. Parties and drinking happen on the weekends. Music blares sometimes, but it can be classical where they're at! Doors slam - I don't think kids think much about that. We had to remind our son each time he came home on break that we don't let the bathroom door swing shut loudly when you're still up at 3 am!

 

My son was able to study in the dorms; his suite was set up with a common kitchen and living room. He was also off-board plan and made his meals for the four years (helpful because of his food allergies). The kids sat at the big kitchen table studying and chatting while they made dinner. For him, it was an easy transition to college.

 

While the kids at dd's school take their studies seriously, too, that studying is often done somewhere else (study group, library, empty classroom, cafeteria). Studying in the dorms usually happens in groups. And intellectual conversations do happen, along with everything else. But there are constant distractions. Not everybody comes into the game expecting and desiring the same sort of living arrangements. And then they pack those people into tiny spaces and expect them to co-exist peacefully. It's very different from what dd experienced in homeschooling, and it's probably also very different from the various environments the kids down the hall came from, too. She learned to adapt and roll with the punches and find new ways of getting the work done and keeping happy and healthy.

 

Most kids find a compatible group of friends sometime during freshman year, and move on to live with those friends in the future. My son was lucky to fall into a great group freshman year & stick with them throughout college. My daughter had an extremely incompatible freshman year roomie (total slob, things rotting on her side of the room, liquor and condoms left out in the open, brought boys home regardless of dd's being in the room, how awful!). Yet she made the best of it, made good friends down the hall to crash with when needed, started to stand up for herself a bit, and grew up tremendously. This year she's living with a fun, friendly, studious girl and having a much better time. :)

 

Is your daughter finding compatible friends? Is there a reason she's living in upperclass housing this year? I think it would be more difficult to meet other freshmen that way. Is there a reason she's not on a meal plan if taking time to cook is stressing her out?

 

Some of your expectations are unreasonable & I don't think you're going to find all of what you require outside of a highly controlled (and probably conservative Christian) school. But I also think that your daughter needs to learn both how to adapt a bit more to the situation and at the same time, do a little more for herself in researching alternatives, making friends, making changes when something (like cooking) doesn't work out.

[Kalmia]

A nice, staid New England private liberal arts school would be just the ticket. Kids at my college used to study in the library until 11pm on Friday, then maybe go to a pretty calm party. Think: Bates, Bowdoin, Colby, Smith, Mt. Holyoke, Vassar.

 

But then she'd be far away from home.

[memphispeg]

Dd goes to one of those staid NE colleges. She had a hard transition her freshman year. She elected to live in the "cool" dorm....read non-stop partying. But, she found a way to deal, library for study, dance studio for friends, secret places on campus for prolonged bouts of deep thought. She had a single in an all-woman's dorm sophomore year. Still loud and rowdy but, fun and she got a bit more sleep. This year her dorm is kind of mid-way between the two. It is important for her to learn to deal and have fun with others on their own terms. She still is frantic about sleeping, she is a day-time person, but less put out about not getting her perfect 8 hrs. She has always been on the meal plan and is a finicky eater but, has learned to deal with that as well.

I told her "Life, welcome to it!!"

[jakesask]

I do think it is possible to have what you're looking for. I went to a big research university, 20,000 students with all kinds of backgrounds and various reasons for being at university, and I still had a very studious experience. This is less than 10 years ago, and I teach at that university now.

 

I didn't live in a dorm, but I knew several people who did, all throughout their university experience, and even during law school. We had study floors and quiet floors, and the floors in between study floor and quiet floor were referred to as "the morgue." And they were well and truly quiet. You would get in massive trouble for talking--if I were with a student who had to pick something up, she would make me stand in the outer hall, and tell me to be silent so she didn't get in trouble. I was good friends with an RA who regularly had to break up people having sex in her "social dorm." It was social, but they still weren't allowed to do THAT. Intervening was in her job description.

 

So I don't think your expectations are unrealistic.

 

If you really can't find a suitable dorm situation, off-campus housing can be great. It removes you from the general hustle and bustle of campus life. A long-ish walk to and from school can be a great contemplative experience, too. But be careful . . . off-campus isn't necessarily quiet. I lived for 4 years in a basement suite under a couple in their 60s. They would have dinner parties, practice their ballroom dancing, vacuum while I was still in bed in the morning, be in and out of the main door constantly, and the husband snored so loudly than earplugs didn't really even help me (even though my bed was on the opposite side of the house and on a different floor). I later lived in an apartment building where the tenant above me would play raucous games with her golden retriever at 3 am. You have to develop some tolerance for irritating and loud people, I think. No apartment is not isolated like a house.

 

That was in Canada. When I went to grad school in the States, I found the university (again, a large research university, this time with 30,000 students) to be much more party-oriented, and there was far more drinking. So perhaps it will be more difficult for you to find quiet space.

 

As for academic conversation, I really didn't get much of that until the final year of my undergrad--once I knew a few of the grad students in my dept and some of the profs had realized I was a smart one. None of my peers ever wanted to talk about anything substantial. Grad school was the place for lots of academic conversation.

[Barbara H]

Perhaps it would be helpful to make a distinction between two categories. The first would be really unacceptable stuff: keg parties in the dorm, sex while the roommate is there, condoms on the floor, property damage like punching walls, violence of any kind, etc. The second category would be stuff that is bothersome but perhaps not morally wrong: staying up late chatting or "pulling all nighters" before a big exam, squealing and hugging your friends when you see them even though it has only been since yesterday, ordering pizza late at night, being goofy and loud sometimes, etc.

 

I really sympathize with students who feel stuck in the first kind of situation and I think it is worth exploring alternative living options. The second situation though, I think is just more a part of dorm living and life around young people. I don't think it is evidence that people have been poorly parented. Aside from a handful of religious colleges offering very high levels of supervision, I don't think realistically students are going to avoid the second category of behavior while living in most dorms. So, knowing that I would suggest the student explore whatever options she can including: white noise machine, earplugs, support from student support services, getting a single room, moving off campus, etc. But, with that I would really encourage a student not to cut herself off from other people who happen to be more extroverted or louder. Some of them may end up being good friends.

[Laura Corin]

This thread has taken an interesting twist in demonstrating how people view their homes and shared public spaces.

 

We have a quiet home. We play music sometimes, but mostly not very loudly. We are otherwise pretty quiet apart from some gabby family meals. We go to specific loud places for specific loud activities: the pub for loud chat, the park or swimming pool for rambunctious play, a designated party to party .... We are 3/4 introvert and need quiet time to recharge.

 

I can sympathise with the OP - I would find it hard to live in the atmosphere that was described. I lived in off-campus flats for most of my university career. I don't know if it matters that it was always mixed age, so some people in the house were always working seriously towards exams. It was fairly quiet.

 

ETA: I've had another thought. At my university, even the university-provided accommodation was spread out (they had bought up a few streets of ordinary houses) and private flats even more so. There were no mobile phones and we couldn't afford land lines. Parties were arranged in advance, so you knew where and when they were happening.

 

Laura

Edited November 4, 2011 by Laura Corin

[mom31257]

Our DD is currently in college and having a rough time. She went to school--a GOOD school, an academic school--thinking she would have "the college experience". She envisioned herself sitting in a library among busts (statue heads, that is) of great thinkers, poring over books....going back to her dorm room and sharing quiet talks with roommates, listening to classical music, cooking a healthy meal, and then studying in the living room of the apartment among her roommates, who would also be quietly studying.

 

Well, this isn't happening. Of course the library is modern with overhead fluorescent lighting; the quiet talks are a late-night game of Wii, and the healthy meals are scrambled eggs and toast, all she can muster up in a tiny kitchenette with limited facilities. There is noise up and down the building corridors all night, banging (exterior) doors, smoke-filled hallways...I've discussed this before on this forum, that this is a GOOD and highly selective school. Weekends are party time and the music is supposed to end at 2 am, but usually goes until 3 or 4.

 

So we're doing research as DD is desperate to have a "normal" life like she had here at home, when she was a h/s senior and taking f/t classes at the local cc. She went to bed at 11 pm, woke (well rested) at 7:30 am, made her coffee, watched BBC world news, ate a healthy breakfast, and then headed off to comm coll. Everything was peaceful, calm, and conducive to studying.

 

DD is thinking of transferring to another school, one that offers Honors housing or an Intensive Study building...anything where the students are a bit more scholarly. So I've called around, several colleges and universities.

 

The Res Life people are laughing at me! They tell me these are different times, there is so much more happening on campus, these kids have electronics and TVs and computers and video games, fitness centers open around the clock, sports events and pep rallies, parties every night...yes, there are quiet hours, but--conspiratorial tone here, spoken by the Res Life Director--"kids will be kids. Things aren't the same as when we were in school."

 

And when I asked about living with the upperclassmen (my dd already does) I was told that the seniors are the WORST, the 21 year-olds are loud and impatient to graduate. Hello!!! Whatever happened to senior thesis and seminar and internships?

 

Anyone?

 

This is what I'm afraid of for my own dd who is in 9th grade. If you aren't opposed to one, I would look in to small, conservative colleges.

[vonfirmath]

This was my experience 30 years ago, at a small, private school. I love what the OP's dd wants, and I would LOVE for my dd to want (and find) that, but I've never seen it. Although perhaps her idea of an honors dorm or something of that sort would work. By the way, when I was in college, I was one of the party people. Hindsight's 20/20....:tongue_smilie:

 

I was IN an honors dorm my freshman year in college. It was somewhat quieter. But still not what is described in the OP. No kitchen. I don't remember the talks in the dorm room either (The best talks were in the classrooms themselves!) And the folks who wanted to play computer games all night went up to the 4th floor to play. Though there was a gal across the hallway who had a CompuServe account on her computer.

 

But it was definitely quiet enough to sleep. (Or, at least, if it was noisy, you could not hear it through the walls!)

 

PS but there was no "living room" to the apartment -- two beds. We each had a side of the room to ourselves. But it was all one big room, with an attached bathroom. -- coed by floor. Girls were 1st and 3rd floor. Guys were 2nd and 4th.

The other dorm I was in shared bathrooms by floor. That dorm was all girls. And it was louder. Though I still could sleep in my room.

[distancia]

We have a quiet home.

 

I lived in off-campus flats for most of my university career...so some people in the house were always working seriously towards exams. It was fairly quiet.

 

Laura

 

I...I went to a big research university, 20,000 students with all kinds of backgrounds and various reasons for being at university, and I still had a very studious experience....We had study floors and quiet floors, and the floors in between study floor and quiet floor were referred to as "the morgue." And they were well and truly quiet.

 

So I don't think your expectations are unrealistic.

 

That was in Canada.

 

When I went to grad school in the States, I found the university (again, a large research university, this time with 30,000 students) to be much more party-oriented, and there was far more drinking. So perhaps it will be more difficult for you to find quiet space.

 

 

 

Interesting--we have Laura from Scotland, and Jakesask--who attended college in Canada (quiet) and grad school in the USA (noisy, more focus on drinking).

 

I'm wondering if this is a US "thing", that we're just overall more loud than other people. Our family has spent a lot of time abroad and we have found that Europeans are generally quieter when outside of the immediate family. We Americans have a terrible reputation as being "loud", and there's the old adage that you can hear an American a mile away. So, maybe this carries over into our academic life, too?

 

Don't get me wrong, the European cans be loud. But they seem to keep their voices better modulated; less shrieking and Billie Mays (the TV salesman) in your face kind of attitude. And when the Euros drink, they tend to do so in pubs, which are more conversational than our (American) bars.

 

Just a thought, maybe this is all cultural differences?

Edited November 5, 2011 by distancia

[Carol in Cal.]

Have you looked at Whitman College in Walla Walla? It has the kind of reputation that you're talking about, although I don't know whether it pervades the dorms as well as the campus itself.

[Laura Corin]

Interesting--we have Laura from Scotland, and Jakesask--who attended college in Canada (quiet) and grad school in the USA (noisy, more focus on drinking).

 

I'm wondering if this is a US "thing", that we're just overall more loud than other people. Our family has spent a lot of time abroad and we have found that Europeans are generally quieter when outside of the immediate family.

 

Rick Steves certainly includes 'quietness' tips for American travellers in his guide books. I have a friend who is a warden at a dorm attached to a local university. I'll ask her how things are these days.

 

Husband is American. He never lived in dorms. A friend of his came to live with him after a year in the dorms, partly because it was too loud. This was in the mid-70s.

 

Laura

[distancia]

America is a hodgepodge of cultures....My current neighbor, S. American 1st gen, is so loud I know all her business from her loud phone conversations and the shouted indoor-outdoor conversations. I had to turn on the A/C and some music so I could sleep after surgery and my kids could study for exams & get their sleep ..the noise from her culture doesn't stop until 11 pm, even on school nights. The visitors come and go at all hours and I'll sometimes find their cars blocking my driveway.

 

One of my friends went to Ohio State...she moved into an engineering dorm the second year to get peace from the people with easier majors who had the time to go out on weeknights and party.

 

I think majors have a good deal to do with noise factors and lifestyle. STEM majors do have it tougher than many Lib Arts majors, and there's no way a STEM major can B.S. the professor on a physics exam, the same way a Sociology major might be able to fudge an essay or multiple choice. So a good night's sleep--or a rested mind--is imperative for success in certain majors.

 

The girl down the street--also 18 and attending college 90 miles away--has been coming home practically every weekend since school began in August. I saw her mom today doing some gardening, and stopped by to talk. She said her daughter can't stand the commotion in her dorm suite (4 single bedrooms, 2 baths common area and kitchen) and she has been coming home to do her studying. She even switched a class so she could leave campus on Thursday night and not have to return until lunchtime on Monday

 

Nice to know my dd isn't the only one!

[tex-mex]

Please take what I am gently saying with a grain of salt... this perspective coming from my college years and having been a Residence Counselor for dorms (3+ years). I answered below in blue:

 

Is there something wrong with our family? My husband and I raised our DD to have an indoor voice (remember the rules of grammar school?) and to not slam the door, not turn the TV volume up loud, nor the stereo...not to shout from another room unless it's an emergency. Shouldn't that same courtesy be extended to others outside the home?

 

Can all that ^^be considered a negative?

 

No.

 

I think what is going on is you need to change your paradigms. College (dorm) life is not similar to the lifestyle parents raise their children. It is a time of self discovery, new challenges (i.e. roommates), and finding independence. A "bridge" to adulthood, if you will.

 

We homeschooling parents wanted our children out of the chaotic public school system. So why is it suddenly now acceptable for our young adult children to be in the environment that just a year ago we were condemning?

 

It is college.

 

Everyone is grouped into one environment -- the dorms. Some will choose to sow their oats and others will not. I think the fallacy in your thinking is you are lumping all college students in to the group you condemn. Not all college students are like this. But then I have never heard of a college you desire in your first post, either. :D

 

Don't misunderstand, DD likes to have a good time. She can be loud and boisterous. She's sociable, she laughs a lot. But that's what she's learned you do out in the world, like at the beach, at the gym, or on a boat, or at the bowling alley or a dance party, or sitting on your front porch/patio, around the grill. Home is a quiet place, a place where you relax. It is not a place where you jump on the furniture, throw food across the room, punch holes in walls, play beer pong, or do other dumb things. At least, not in our home.

 

I do not think anyone is suggesting your dd has to do any of those behaviors. And not everyone who attends college behaves like this 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. The knuckleheads who do not take college seriously usually end up dropping out by mid-year or fail so many courses they are expelled. These are young adults -- out into the "world" -- free from the reins of parental rules. And yes, they can act stupidly on occasion. But that is college life. Once adulthood kicks in and a career/family looms... these same kids grow up and end up being really neat people. Your post is kind of judgmental and looking down on average college life, IMO. Which is why I am suggesting you need to lighten up and :chillpill: with your mindset or what dd is telling you about her experience. It may not be accurate.

 

She has to find a common ground at whatever school she wants to be at, however. And be willing to change her perspective or no matter where she attends, she will be unhappy.

 

 

I think off-campus housing with similar souls--and they have to be out there, somewhere, our DD isn't that unique--is the answer.

 

Having been a RC, I would strongly suggest your dd not to change dorms or schools in the first semester -- as it is very common for any new student to experience this. She needs first to find like minded souls via an on-campus club like Campus Crusade for Christ, Robotics, Student Govt, or more. Once she finds her niche and friends, she can then think of off campus housing. To want to find a new school ASAP is way too premature.

 

Perhaps after surviving one more semester -- she needs to live at home and commute to a LAC for next year?

 

 

[Halftime Hope]

I went to a very small, conservative college 25 years ago. Even then, before electronics, there was more "life" going on than I think your dd would be comfortable with.

 

I was completing a STEM major and additional STEM minor in three years after having transfered, so I had to study like a maniac.

 

I found that if I could study in the library catacombs for several hours in the evening, run with a friend, and be in bed by 11 p.m., I could be deeply asleep before the midnight crew came banging in. (Granted, I had to be tired enough to sleep soundly, thus the run.)

 

I would get up to study again by 4 a.m. and have 3-4 hard hours of very quiet, intense study time--nothing like fear as a motivator--before my early classes.

 

It's not a lifestyle I'd recommend to someone who needs eight hours, but my point is that maybe she could play with the timing of her sleep, so that she stands a chance.

 

Different point: maybe I'm being harsh, but it sounds like there is some judgement and attitude mixed in with the mismatch of lifestyles. That can ruin your sleep as well.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

We're in the Sunshine State :001_smile:.

 

DD's current school requires all students to live on campus until age 21. Even so, the majority of students over the age of 21 still live on campus.

 

DD is only 18 and we are okay with her living off-campus, as long as she is close to school AND she has some decent roommates. She has a car, but still...we don't want her driving any more than 7 minutes or so, adding another 5 on for parking. She has given up sleeping her her dorm where she is and has returned home and commutes, which is 40 minutes each way. When she's really tired (she has a class until 10 pm!) she stays over in her dorm, but she doesn't sleep well. And try being up for an 8 am class!

 

I guess she will have to think about off-campus housing.

 

I hope this requirement to live on campus is not the norm:glare: With the cost of college alone, this should be optional. Then, there those with health issues such as severe food allergies where living on campus would really not be a good idea in most cases.

[msk]

I think majors have a good deal to do with noise factors and lifestyle. STEM majors do have it tougher than many Lib Arts majors, and there's no way a STEM major can B.S. the professor on a physics exam, the same way a Sociology major might be able to fudge an essay or multiple choice. So a good night's sleep--or a rested mind--is imperative for success in certain majors.

 

 

College is also a time to become more open-minded about different subject areas. Learning to think logically, to critically evaluate an argument in a densely written professional journal article, and to write really clearly and well is just as challenging as learning to answer questions on problem sets correctly! In fact, it can be much MORE challenging to some people to tackle subjects with no "right answer." In these courses you have to really understand the material well in order to support your answer, you can't just check an answer key and move on. It may be easier not to completely fail a liberal arts essay, but it should be just as difficult to excel! Taking a variety of classes and really learning about different subject areas can be a good antidote to preconceived ideas about STEM majors being "harder" or STEM students being smarter or more serious. In every subject area and every course, you get out what you put in.

[distancia]

UPDATE: This weekend dd was home for a few hours and filled us in: many of the seniors close the library at 1 am and meander along the corridors and smoke some weed and/or have a few drinks to relax, sit around outside the dorm suites and talk loudly until 3 am. One of dd's 4 roommates is a late-night gal who falls into this category, and then she comes into the apartment and bangs (stumbles?) her way around. Very noisy. Nobody wants to confront her because she's the one with disassociative personality disorder.

 

Also, it seems that ALL the exterior hydraulic door need adjusting (or need new cylinders) because the outside doors, once opened, slam shut very quickly and very loudly. . This can be really noisy when a steel door is opened 3 feet! DD says it is so loud that the windows shake. From what i understand the maintenance crew is so overtapped (budget cuts) that only the bare minimum of work is being done--the swimming pool is closed most of the time because it isn't being maintained.

 

I hope this requirement to live on campus is not the norm:glare: With the cost of college alone, this should be optional. Then, there those with health issues such as severe food allergies where living on campus would really not be a good idea in most cases.

 

Unfortunately, living on campus is REQUIRED of all Freshman here in Florida, unless the student lives within X amount of miles or has X amount of credits after h/s graduation.

[Barbara H]

Sorry if I've missed the answer to this question if it has already been posted. I'm wondering if your daughter has gone to talk to the dean or to residential life staff (not her RA, but actual staff) and if they know how desperate her situation is right now. Do they know she's really struggling with the noise and commuting because she can't sleep on campus? If she hasn't talked to them I would strongly encourage her to do so. There may be some solution that we can't think of as outsiders.