Birdwinglips Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Ok, since I know none of you personally, you are a safe crowd to ask. ;-) My husband was a pastor for 11 yrs. of our marriage and is now a military chaplain. We also have a son with a disability. I am a pretty outgoing person, always make friends easily, etc. Our family knows many other families, our kids have many friends they play with in the neighborhood, etc. BUT through the years it seems we are never asked to folks houses, parties, etc. very often if at all. My question, do you avoid socializing with those in ministry because you are worried you aren't being 'holy' enough when they are around? Do you not invite your pastor over for fear he will see you being unchurchy or drinking a beer, or whatever?? We are ok with drinking by the way. :-) I have been bugged by this for years, but never felt ok asking my friends about it for fear of making them feel guilty. I usually have great girlfriends who I see in the neighborhood, talk to over the 'fence post', at the store, whatever. But these 'friends' never have me over, ask me to girls night out, etc. And truly I am a pretty fun person. My other concern is, maybe it's my son. Maybe people don't know how to deal with having a kid with a disability at their house? He is only physically disabled though, but not severely. It's obvious by meeting him he can get around just fine. Ugh, I don't know. I guess I am just airing my grievances to a bunch of strangers because I don't know how to approach it with those I know. I don't have a clue. My hubby isn't Mr. Social, but he's not inept either. He's pretty well liked as well. He just tends to be more of an introvert. It's been frustrating over the years and I'd hoped the military would be better. So many folks around here get together, party, etc. I know I can always ask people to our house, but my home isn't always visitor friendly (i.e. it's a mess). Any thoughts would be welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I think people just don't socialize much. We haven't had anyone over to our house except family for several years. Life is just too busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 My old pastor made it very clear he didn't want to socialize, that we weren't 'his friends'. He didn't want any of his congregation as his buddies. I'm not saying you have done that-but have you gone the other way and invited people over for a BBQ and offered them a beer? :001_smile: Disabilities don't bother me in the least-I really don't think it would be your son. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdwinglips Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 We actually hosted lots of stuff at our house in our old church but they were mostly church related. We were never 'stand offish' to the members. But it was a really small church too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.m Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I always assumed they were busy people and probably didn't have time. I guess maybe I should offer to have them over. My assumption could be incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) have you gone the other way and invited people over for a BBQ and offered them a beer? :001_smile: Disabilities don't bother me in the least-I really don't think it would be your son. :grouphug: :iagree: It wasn't a pastor/beer drinker situation :tongue_smilie:, but I have had two instances of hesitating about friendship with women because they were so quiet and seemed so perfect and good. I felt too rowdy and irreverent for them. Turns out, they were just quiet. They were otherwise perfectly social and "normal" and liked margaritas* and jokes as much as I do. We have since become great friends. It started with her putting herself out there. I agree with the suggestion to host a BBQ. Can you look for opportunities within your husband's unit? Do you go to the coffees? Stuff like that is very important in military social circles. Go, chat, make a friend and invite her family for dinner. Let them see the real you and you'll probably have a more active social life in short order. I think you would probably get more answers if you made this a poll. :) *I do not think you have to like margaritas in order to be considered normal. However, it was a big deal to me to not feel like a heavy drinker (I'm so not!) with a teetotaler. Edited October 31, 2011 by Alte Veste Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhomemaker Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 It's probably a combination of things. The economy definitely plays a factor. People can't afford to entertain as much as they used to. I'll be honest; I do think being in ministry plays a part. My husband used to be in ministry so I can identify with you. It's hard to break through the pastor's wife stereotype, especially if you are a member of a theologically conservative denomination. I found that inviting someone over to our house first kind of broke the ice. After the first get-together, the relationship moved along easily. The other issue is that people are aware of how busy pastors and their families can be (and some are standoffish as someone else pointed out). I think maybe people are trying to be considerate of your time and energy and perhaps aren't realizing that you would like to come over. They don't want to burden you, you know? I would seriously doubt your son has anything to do with people not inviting you over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solascriptura Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm sure that there are a variety of reasons. However, I've thought of inviting my current pastor and his family over, but never did. My reason is that his wife is always saying how busy they are with all of their activities and family obligations. I just assume that she would not want to come over. In my previous church, I invited my pastor and his family over. They just declined, saying that they were too busy. I was a bit hurt. I mean, if a person would like to spend time with you, they will try to find an alternate time, right? Have you thought of initiating some activities? I believe that many people would like to spend time with others and have some fun activities, but they don't want to initiate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I think the first step is to invite people over to your house. Personally, I am relieved when I visit a house that isn't spotless. ;) I highly doubt your son an issue. It wouldn't be for me, or anyone else I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 We are very close with our pastor and his wife and family. I love hanging out with them so we invite them over frequently! I can't say the same for our previous pastor. To me, it doesn't matter that they are our pastor/in ministry...they are friends. We enjoy one another's company. If we didn't, I wouldn't invite and they probably wouldn't accept if I did! LOL. Don't take it personally...people are sometimes fearful of being less than perfect or making a "mistake" in front of their pastors. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Personally, I am relieved when I visit a house that isn't spotless. ;) :lol: Yes, and this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I always assume pastoral staff is way too busy and would feel obligated to accept an invite whether they want to or not. Most of the pastors I know also socialize with other pastors from other churches. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 My experience is that people don't socialize much any more. I invite people from church over all the time (about 10 different HSing families and the pastor's family) for a meal and to visit and it's very rare to have others invite us over. 3 actually invited us to their home. I have had half a dozen people say things like, "We ought to have you guys over some time" but it rarely results in them inviting us over for a specific time. It really depends on the church too. The one I went to for almost 10 years was one in which it was impossible to have people reciprocate, but the one I've been going to for about 9 months now has had a few do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 You may already be doing this but it may help if you have other families over to your house (not in a group setting). Then as they get to know you they may feel more comfortable inviting you over. Our new pastor came and visited with us for 2 hours one evening and the next Sunday we were invited to their house for dinner. It was a really neat way to know that they are just normal people. We have been in churches where we have not felt comfortable inviting the pastor's family over but we definitely prefer to have a friendship with our pastor and his family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'd start inviting more people over. We've lived in three different areas in the past 6 years. With only two exceptions, every personal relationship was initiated by us. I grew up in a Mennonite home and it was very common to have company for Sunday dinner or go to someone elses home. We also had many informal get togethers throughout the year. I thought everyone had that sort of attitude toward company. I'm not a super outgoing person. It is hard to invite people I don't know well. I want to have friendships, though, and I want my kids to have those kinds of memories. So I ask and ask again. Not everyone wants to get together for meals or a game night. I just keep asking until someone says yes. Those are the people we end up getting close to. If I waited until someone invited us, we'd be very lonely. Don't let your house hold you back. My house stays much cleaner when I have a stream of company. I'm going to have company for the 4th straight Saturday in a row this week, and I've become much more efficient Saturday mornings than I usually am. I may have to keep inviting folks over for Saturday evening until the kids get used to the new regime.:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Out of the Pastor families we have known in the 25 years of our marriage, about 2 were friendly enough for us to join them at their home for dinners, games, etc. Our recent Pastor family tend to be controlling and when we do visit them at their home for dinner and movies -- it just feels weird. I think it has more to do with personalities. They have few close friends and leave a trail of burned bridges with lots of former parishoners disliking them. Due to this, I am leery of truly getting to know them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The other issue might be the military aspect of it. I don't think you are allowed to socialize with anyone 2 ranks above or below you, so it is easier not to even get drawn into the politics of it all. The pastor thing could be part of it too. I know I always feel a bit awkward when in social situations with the pastor. Like my kids are going to act like heathens, or I am going to stick my foot in my mouth somehow. I think it would be easier is you invite people over first. This reminded me of the first time our pastor came to visit after we moved to a new town. I was pregnant and had a 4 and 5 year old at home. I went to make tea and came out to see and hear my 5 year old open our expecting baby book to THE page and tell the pastor "this is a vagina". Thank goodness it was a cartoon type book for little kids, but if the floor could have swallowed me up I would have been grateful. Luckily he just laughed and said yep it is. But I don't think I looked him in the eye the rest of the visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in C-ville Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm a pastor's wife and have been for ~ 20 years including our time in seminary when dh was the youth pastor and we lived in the parsonage. I agree with other posters who say don't worry about your house. Invite people over. I think busyness is more the problem in our culture than stigma. Busyness and virtual relationships. And, people feel like that it's got to be a big deal to have people over. It just doesn't. So, relax. Invite people over. They'll be happy to see that you're not perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Question though-- if pastor's wife invites people over, aren't all the people in the church community going to expect an invite also in their turn, and won't their feelings be hurt if you develop close friendships with certain people and not with others? Sounds like it could be a complex situation.:bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 you have gotten some good advice already. if girl time is important you should probably do one as the pastors wife. it helped me to remember that these people see you on the worst, best, and spiritual days of their lives. It is difficult and can be uncomfortable to mix what is uncommon and special with the common and everday. It is not about them not being holy enough, but about them having roles that specific play in their lives. Having friends in ministry is tricky, I would look for other ministers wives in your community. Some church members are very good at being friends with their pastors, but some are not. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) Ok, since I know none of you personally, you are a safe crowd to ask. ;-) My husband was a pastor for 11 yrs. of our marriage and is now a military chaplain. We also have a son with a disability. I am a pretty outgoing person, always make friends easily, etc. Our family knows many other families, our kids have many friends they play with in the neighborhood, etc. BUT through the years it seems we are never asked to folks houses, parties, etc. very often if at all. My question, do you avoid socializing with those in ministry because you are worried you aren't being 'holy' enough when they are around? Do you not invite your pastor over for fear he will see you being unchurchy or drinking a beer, or whatever?? We are ok with drinking by the way. :-) My experience is that many do not feel "good" enough to be friends with the church leaders, or they assume that the church leaders would be too busy to socialize so they don't invite them. A pastor and his wife with a messy house? I feel better already. :) Edited October 31, 2011 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cera Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) I know some people who say they find socializing with the chaplain awkward (similar to socializing with your ob/gyn). I find it easier to have friends whose spouses don't work directly with mine (avoid office politics which can be brutal in the military) and have had no problems having friends whose husbands were all ranks (those whose husbands were jr enlisted simply socialized with me rather than as couples). Edited October 31, 2011 by Cera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LND1218 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I know I can always ask people to our house, but my home isn't always visitor friendly (i.e. it's a mess). Any thoughts would be welcome. I think this is key. Most of the time, you really have to invite people over to get invited over. Sometimes you have to do it first, and sometimes you have to reciprocate in order for the invites to continue. People can feel like you really don't like them - want to be their friend if you don't invite them over. It's the same as the way you are feeling. When we lived in a house that was better for entertaining - larger main area, we had a lot of people over, and were always getting invited to other people's home. Once we moved to a house that wasn't so great, we didn't have a lot of people over, and we stopped getting invited over. We didn't move far, and we were still in the same groups of people. But it is hard to have people over here. The same people stopped inviting us. I do think it can be additionally hard to invite over a pastor. Our pastor has everyone over at least once - it really breaks the ice and helps you get to know them. He has more invites than he can keep up with. So I would say take the time to invite over some friends - even if you don't have them to the house. Maybe you can host a picnic at a park or somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Question though-- if pastor's wife invites people over, aren't all the people in the church community going to expect an invite also in their turn, and won't their feelings be hurt if you develop close friendships with certain people and not with others? Sounds like it could be a complex situation.:bigear: I can't live my life with no friends just because I can't be everybody's friend. No, I think most people are ok with me being closer to some church members than others. If they aren't ok with it, they haven't said anything to me. To the OP. I am a PW and I also have a disabled son. I am going to agree with everyone who has suggested inviting people over. We have people in our home 1-2 nights a week and have developed a lot of friendships in our church. I think it also helps that dh is a beer drinking, cigar smoking, Harley riding guy. We are super real with people. I can't handle being fake (not saying you are), so I think others get comfortable very quickly. If you had people over, maybe they'd have the chance to get comfortable with your family. I don't know much about being a chaplain. Does your dh pastor a Sunday service? Do you have a church family? A small group? We know a lot of lead pastors don't have a small group, but we do. We also get together with pastor friends pretty regularly. (((hugs))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayle in Guatemala Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Start inviting people over to your house (I know it isn't always visitor friendly--but figure out a way to make it happen) and let them see that you are fun and able to enjoy a girls night or a couples' dinner party. I've been a pastor's daughter and then a pastor's wife for years before becoming a missionary and I can tell you that sometimes people think that their pastor and his wife need a break. Sometimes they feel that they wouldn't want to come to something outside of a church activity because they are so busy (this is compounded by homeschooling as well). Take the first steps by planning some nights at your house as well as maybe some nights out and give people the impression that you are wanting to socialize and see what happens. If after you make a good effort at it you still aren't being invited places--I would approach some good friends to find out why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) Haven't read all the responses, but I have four pws for good friends. They are all human. In fact, the first time I talked with one of them on the phone (before we'd met in person) she said "Hold on a minute, I've got to yell at the kids!" I knew we were going to be bf. One of these women was treated horribly by the church women. Constantly being watched and commented upon. I couldn't believe it. This was a younger pw in a church of mostly older women. One was in an okay situation. The other two are young wives married to the pastor and associate pastor. They are loved and adored by all. My favorite moment with one of these gals is when she acted completely human. I do have to say these two ladies are very close to perfect imo. They come to the farm, spend the day, their dhs come to hunt and stay overnight and tell our boys disgusting guy jokes and it's great. I don't understand why pw have to live in a fishbowl. It's awful. Be yourself, do your thing, have a beer and let them just deal with it. I don't worry about holiness or lack thereof in my pastors or their families. Edited October 31, 2011 by Remudamom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagine.more Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm a PW too and we don't get invited to anything either. It seems to be a pretty common thing, it's okay because I socialize with people at my own church which is much easier. I don't know that I would want to go hang out with my DH's congregation members, I don't trust them further than I can throw them. I no longer trust any congregation at all, so I'm really not comfortable being buddies with them if any little thing I say/do is going to be analyzed and used against my husband. I really doubt it's because of your son, it's likely the PW thing. Probably best to just count your blessings and look for friends elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenpatty Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 My experience is that people don't socialize much any more. I invite people from church over all the time (about 10 different HSing families and the pastor's family) for a meal and to visit and it's very rare to have others invite us over. 3 actually invited us to their home. I have had half a dozen people say things like, "We ought to have you guys over some time" but it rarely results in them inviting us over for a specific time. It really depends on the church too. The one I went to for almost 10 years was one in which it was impossible to have people reciprocate, but the one I've been going to for about 9 months now has had a few do so. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Question though-- if pastor's wife invites people over, aren't all the people in the church community going to expect an invite also in their turn, and won't their feelings be hurt if you develop close friendships with certain people and not with others? Sounds like it could be a complex situation.:bigear: I think there might be less chance of this as a military chaplain. When we were in the AF we became close friends with one of the chaplains and his family. At the time there were 4 Protestant chaplains and 1 Catholic. I think having several chaplains at once helped people not to feel there was an unfairness in a couple families having a closer friendship with one of the chaplains. Some chaplains' families were just busier with wives working and kids' activities. They didn't socialize as much as our friends did. On the other hand, a friend told me of a problem at her previous church where the pastor's wife stopped inviting friends over because there was a lot of petty complaining that the pw ought to be inviting ALL the women over, not just a few. To the OP, you might just have to invite a few people over and see where it goes. This is what our friend did. It broke the ice for us. (I'm generally too shy to invite people over and entertaining stresses me out.) I hope it works well for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I would get the kids moving and shove the mess into the closet and invite some people over for pie and beer. I have friends and I'm very rarely invited for a social gathering to their houses. They all come to my house (we had a get-together yesterday.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdwinglips Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Thank you all so much for your input. I was very happy and relieved to hear so many say my son was likely not an issue at all. That little thought has always haunted the back of my brain. Thank you for helping me lay it to rest. :001_smile: I do have 2 closer friends who also homeschool here on base so they are mostly my 'touchstones' but they themselves do not socialize with others on base too much for their own reasons. Also, they really enjoy their family/evening times so it's harder to plan stuff with them outside of school time. We plan picnics, playdates, etc. but kids are always included. As far as hearing a common thread, it seems I need to be the one initiating here. I often have grand plans in my head of having folks over, but then someone gets sick, something comes up, hubby has to travel, etc. and plans are thwarted. It looks like I need to be more intentional. Thank you all again for your insight. I guess my soul searching needs to begin with thinking about who exactly it is I want to be hanging out with? The wild gals who throw the great parties ;), the ladies night out gals, the lunch/ brunch gals, the PWOC gals, etc. Again thank you all. It's been some wonderful food for thought!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in C-ville Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Question though-- if pastor's wife invites people over, aren't all the people in the church community going to expect an invite also in their turn, and won't their feelings be hurt if you develop close friendships with certain people and not with others? Sounds like it could be a complex situation.:bigear: Blechity-blech-blech-blech. Typically we do an Open House ~ Christmas time and invite the church community to come AND bring an hors d'ouvre. Then, we just socialize with whomever we want. We have had church friendships go south, and that's sad. I do try to be wise, but I don't participate in church politics. I don't intentionally keep my friendships separate from my church relationships, but it is nice to have friends with whom you're not dealing with any of the stuff of church. Here's a great pastor's wife site: http://leadingandlovingit.com/. Relationships formed through this type of community (like those here) can't and shouldn't replace IRL friendships. However, it is nice to be "around" gals who face the same challenges, joys, struggles that you do as a pastor's wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire in NM Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Only recently have I mustered up the courage and invited people to our home for dinner. And, not surprisingly, I have found these times to be wonderful. Thank you for your reminder; Another way we can love our "shepherds and their families". Claire in NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in C-ville Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 As far as hearing a common thread, it seems I need to be the one initiating here. I often have grand plans in my head of having folks over, but then someone gets sick, something comes up, hubby has to travel, etc. and plans are thwarted. It looks like I need to be more intentional. Thank you all again for your insight. I guess my soul searching needs to begin with thinking about who exactly it is I want to be hanging out with? The wild gals who throw the great parties ;), the ladies night out gals, the lunch/ brunch gals, the PWOC gals, etc. Again thank you all. It's been some wonderful food for thought!!! One more thing. Ditch the grand plans. Go for the simple, even the spur-of-the moment. Sometimes the most fun connections happen when you look in your fridge and think, "Hmmm. I have chicken to throw on the grill. I'll call so-and-so and see what she has in her fridge and we can combine forces for dinner." Pressure of planning is off. Expectations are nil. You can just have ffeed the family and have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 no, I am totally comfortable around ministers. But, even us lay people have trouble getting people to commit to an evening together. We issue lots of invitations, the majority of which get turned down. Once we do get people over they have a fabulous time, but I guess everyone is busy except us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormbuy Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I think the first step is to invite people over to your house. Personally, I am relieved when I visit a house that isn't spotless. ;) I highly doubt your son an issue. It wouldn't be for me, or anyone else I know. This is what I think too. I just recently met someone, she came over with a friend, and I was a little worried about the state of my house. Later I went to her house and found that it was much like mine. So just invite people over, if it makes you feel better warn them ahead of time that your house is lived in, not picture perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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