Missing KC,MO baby

[angela in ohio]

:iagree: I have not read first iota of coverage on this case, but I heartily agree with your explanation of understanding the importance of our constitutional rights. An innocent person may need lawyer moreso than guilty person because the worst outcome for a guilty person is that they will receive just punishment.

 

And sadly, many people probably don't, because they think it will make them seem guilty (likely because everyone does jump to that conclusion.)

[BarbecueMom]

No. It is not easy to overmedicate your child to the point of death. Add to this the fact that 10 month olds are now too young for almost all over the counter meds with the exception of tylenol/advil.

 

It could have been alcohol poisoning instead of medication.

 

If mom was passed out from too much wine, could the boys have made the connection between alcohol and sleep and given some to the baby? Or mom put wine instead of formula in the bottle without realizing it? I read earlier that the mom was claiming she drank more than the neighbor says she drank. Maybe trying to account for the missing alcohol?

[twoforjoy]

An innocent person may need lawyer moreso than guilty person because the worst outcome for a guilty person is that they will receive just punishment.

 

Not necessarily. Guilty people sometimes end up with punishments that are excessive or unjust, particularly if they can't afford a good lawyer.

[BatmansWife]

In a Today Show interview today, Deborah said she also had taken some anxiety medication and "may have blocked out". This is why she says she doesn't remember if she locked the door or left lights on or if she checked Lisa before going to bed.

Where did overmedicating the baby come into play?? Was this just a theory here?

Wouldn't you think they'd be innocent if they have a PI (and, ps, they do have a lawyer too)? If they were guilty the PI would more than likely discover it.

[Donna A.]

It could have been alcohol poisoning instead of medication.

 

If mom was passed out from too much wine, could the boys have made the connection between alcohol and sleep and given some to the baby? Or mom put wine instead of formula in the bottle without realizing it? I read earlier that the mom was claiming she drank more than the neighbor says she drank. Maybe trying to account for the missing alcohol?

 

Exactly. I don't think anyone here has said that Deborah intentionally killed her daughter. What we HAVE said is that Deborah and/or her dh know *something* that he/she are not telling, and as of the last 24 hours, we know that at least part of that something is the fact that she was drunk. If you're really cooperating with the police and being totally upfront in an effort to find your child as soon as possible, why wouldn't you say that up front? I suppose fear, but as someone else said, either these people are very ignorant, or something bad happened that night that she doesn't want to come out. The "something bad" doesn't mean it was premeditated murder. But if the police had known from the very beginning that Lisa was drunk and that she put Lisa to bed at 6:45 instead of 10:30, it would've changed the way they proceeded with the investigation. That's an extra 3-1/2 hours of time that they have to work with.

 

Yes, it's highly possible that Deborah really DID just drink too much and black out and knows nothing beyond that point. But between the fact that she didn't TELL that to the police until two weeks later, and the fact that there's a whole lot of other details still missing, it sets her up to *look* guilty. She's afraid of being arrested.... and with good reason. She hasn't been forthright about the whole situation since it started. At the very least, she was negligent. Getting drunk to the point of passing out with 3 young children in the house that she's responsible for while dh is at work overnight? What responsible parent does that? And doesn't she know that if one gets drunk to the point of passing out, that means it's also very possible that he/she is going to "accidentally" do something to harm someone along the way? (Think drunk drivers here. They never think they're drunk enough to cause any damage/hurt anyone.)

 

One more thing.... A few minutes ago I heard part of Deborah's most recent interview on the Today show. I could swear she said she took something *in addition to* the alcohol she drank, but my dd was talking and I didn't catch what. Did anyone else hear that?

[Donna A.]

In a Today Show interview today, Deborah said she also had taken some anxiety medication and "may have blocked out". This is why she says she doesn't remember if she locked the door or left lights on or if she checked Lisa before going to bed.

 

Okay, there ya go. So I wasn't just hearing things.

 

Where did overmedicating the baby come into play?? Was this just a theory here?

It's just one theory.

 

Wouldn't you think they'd be innocent if they have a PI (and, ps, they do have a lawyer too)? If they were guilty the PI would more than likely discover it.

They didn't get a PI until a week after the disappearance, and didn't get the lawyer until another week after that. We have no idea who's even paying these people or how they were contacted. The PI isn't licensed in the state of Missouri, so there's very little he can even do. He says his fee was paid by someone "anonymous".

 

This lawyer and PI are known for working high profile cases. Doesn't mean the defendant is innocent. (Remember Juron van der Sloot?) But Deborah and Jeremy have said a LOT (some of which wasn't true) during the two weeks before they got a lawyer.... and those things CAN be used against them/her.

[TravelingChris]

First of all, it is fairly easy to over-medicated and accidentally kill a child on acetaminophen. The problem is infant bottles versus children's bottles. If you grab the wrong bottle, Children's versus Infants, and give the infant the same dose you normally give, you could very well kill your child. Acetaminophen is a more dangerous drug than narcotics and it is why in the US, federal law requires narcotics for prescription use at home, to be put in tablets with either acetaminophen or aspirin because they think that drug addicts who get multiple prescriptions or buy illegal quatities would not take too much because of the danger of overdosing on actaminophen. Well the drug addicts either don't care or do procedures to get rid of the non narcotic and go on their way.

 

I am currently watching Prohibition on my DVR which is Ken Burn's show that was on PBS. It is just making me think even more how we are a fallen world and our efforts to make it more holy just fail over and over if they involve force rather than persuasion. All the while also thinking about the horrible war going on in to the south of us where drug cartels place severed heads in front of schools and pits are found with scores of dead bodies. No, I haven't yet decided on whether I am for legalization of drugs since some of them- meth in particular, seem so dangerous that I really wouldn't want anyone to accidentally stumble into them. But others seem no more dangerous than the over the counter stuff we have and the alcohol we buy. Just rambling thoughts right now without a formed plan but I do know I would like to get rid of the medical marijuana scam. I would prefer it to be simply either legal or decriminalized but with the same rights of employers and landlords to forbid usage just like tobacco use is allowed to be forbidden.

[amy g.]

Thanks for the info. We don't use acetaminophen at all because I have read about the dangers.

[Teachin'Mine]

I'm pretty sure I've read that the police interviewed a teenage neighbor who was in the house the same day the baby went missing. I haven't read/seen anything that suggests she was missing longer.

 

Thank you. :)

[Perry]

First of all, it is fairly easy to over-medicated and accidentally kill a child on acetaminophen.

:iagree:Acetaminophen overdose is very common and it isn't hard to do. However, people don't die immediately from an overdose. Instead, acetaminophen overdose causes liver damage, which can lead to liver failure and death over a period of days to weeks.

[Murphy101]

Thank you seems like an odd reply to this post, but I didn't actually know any of this so I appreciate the information. I did think it was odd, but this is very informative....and scary.

 

I knew it.

 

I have a very quiet home at night and I am a very light sleeper most of the time. I tend to be one extreme of the other. Very light sleeper who wakes up if a child a floor up, on the other side of the house and behind 3 different door coughs OR I am dead to the world and wouldn't know if a tornado just ripped past.

 

Dh is a very heavy sleeper. I have to thump him repeatedly if I want him to wake up and even then it takes a couple hours and an energy drink for him to reall feel fully awake.

 

Also, not everyone keeps a quiet home. I have had company that couldn't sleep in my house because it was too quiet. Noise actually makes them sleep better. Teens playing Call of Duty in the xbox, spouse watching tv or on the computer, college kids or spouses coming and going to work or whatever, loud slumber parties... Lots and lots of parents sleep through quite a bit of noise and always have.

 

I'm actually in the minority of most people I know. I insist on a quiet home even with three teens here because I have little ones I want to get to sleep and I cannot sleep with lots of noise.

[Donna A.]

Yet another search is underway in a wooded area near the family's home. This one is being done by FBI agents, and the FAA has closed the air space w/in two miles of the search area. {sigh}

[elegantlion]

Yet another search is underway in a wooded area near the family's home. This one is being done by FBI agents, and the FAA has closed the air space w/in two miles of the search area. {sigh}

 

Oh my. They have searched this space so many times. In the last few weeks the leaves have fallen, it rained, and now the leaves are drying up.

 

They have to have more info than we know about that area. Poor baby.

[Donna A.]

Oh my. They have searched this space so many times. In the last few weeks the leaves have fallen, it rained, and now the leaves are drying up.

 

Well, there hasn't been very much rain here at all... only trace amounts. Our tree-heavy back yard didn't even get wet. But yeah, about the leaves.

 

Did you know they searched the creek bed with boots on the other day, too? Literally went in there on foot, and with the dogs.

 

 

They have to have more info than we know about that area. Poor baby.

 

I think so, too. There's an awful lot of high profile people involved in this.

[arghmatey]

What does it mean that they closed the air space?

[elegantlion]

What does it mean that they closed the air space?

 

No news choppers can fly over. There is also an airport not too far from there, but I doubt they're concerned about private planes. The leaves have mostly dropped so the search would be more visible from the air, which wasn't true a few a weeks ago.

 

I guess Johnny Rowlands will have to stick to traffic this afternoon.

[prairiewindmomma]

the news helicopters are really annoying here.....anything to kinda quiet the media frenzy is a welcome step, imo

[arghmatey]

No news choppers can fly over. There is also an airport not too far from there, but I doubt they're concerned about private planes. The leaves have mostly dropped so the search would be more visible from the air, which wasn't true a few a weeks ago.

 

I guess Johnny Rowlands will have to stick to traffic this afternoon.

 

Thank you.

[Donna A.]

This is scary and sad.... they've got the entire area blocked off. Local comments are speculating that they've found something. http://www.nbcactionnews.com/generic/news/News_LiveVideo

[Donna A.]

But KCTV reported 7 minutes ago that there was a possible sighting of Lisa 120 west of the metro. http://www.kctv5.com/story/15721746/day-15-still-no-word-on-where-lisa-irwin-might-be

 

So is one of these two reports just a distraction from the "real" one? :confused:

[Donna A.]

This is scary and sad.... they've got the entire area blocked off. Local comments are speculating that they've found something. http://www.nbcactionnews.com/generic/news/News_LiveVideo

 

Okay, just another tip that didn't pan out. :glare:

[peachskittles]

But KCTV reported 7 minutes ago that there was a possible sighting of Lisa 120 west of the metro. http://www.kctv5.com/story/15721746/...irwin-might-be

 

I've been following this on and off and I'm holding out hope that they find her. Those two women need to come forward quickly and claim their innocence if they are. Ordering food and then leaving because people notice your kid looks like a missing child is highly suspicious. Me, myself, I would have spoke up if people were staring at me and my kid.

[AuntieM]

I've been following this on and off and I'm holding out hope that they find her. Those two women need to come forward quickly and claim their innocence if they are. Ordering food and then leaving because people notice your kid looks like a missing child is highly suspicious. Me, myself, I would have spoke up if people were staring at me and my kid.

 

Years ago, one of my tots was the spittin' image of a high-profile lost child. It was often very awkward! I *wished* people would say something, to give ms a chance to let them know my tiny one wasn't the missing kid. Mostly we just got lots of long, hard looks. :glare:

[annandatje]

Not necessarily. Guilty people sometimes end up with punishments that are excessive or unjust, particularly if they can't afford a good lawyer.

 

Yes, you are correct, particularly with mandatory sentencing and the 3x out. For a "civilized" country, we tend to be pretty punitive.

[aggieamy]

the news helicopters are really annoying here.....anything to kinda quiet the media frenzy is a welcome step, imo

 

DH and I were in that area this afternoon. We instantly knew it was the street Lisa's family lived on when we drove by because there were three news vans parked on the street. Just parked in the middle of the day. I kinda expect that they are there all the time now. We were inspecting a bridge over a creek about half a mile a way and I kept hoping that I wouldn't see anything in the brush or creek.

[Donna A.]

They obtained a search warrant for the house last night, but waited until morning to begin the search. They've been out there all morning. The street's blocked off... no fly zone above... they're doing quite a bit of digging, particular behind a shed. They've removed a tree, or bushes or something. Brought in a Bomb and Arson truck, allegedly just for the use of their equipment, but one of the tips is that some burned clothes were found. (Remember the dumpster fire that night, reported at 2:30 a.m.?)

 

Turns out the dad was at home with the kids when Deborah went shopping for wine with her brother. Moms comes home, dad leaves for work, mom gets drunk, then something bad happens. Then (supposedly) the brother called there at 2 a.m. Dumpster fire reported at 2:33 a.m.

 

But whatever happened, there has GOT to be something there to prompt the digging and tree removal. And they had to have had some kind of "just cause" to get a search warrant. They've already been in and searched the house with the parents there, but the parents were taken to someone else's home yesterday (during the search in the woods), and now they're not allowed back at the house at all.

 

They've got at least one hole that's deep enough that investigators are down *inside* the hole.

 

I just feel sick over this. :crying: Live video is here, btw... scroll down past the initial article: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old

[BatmansWife]

They obtained a search warrant for the house last night, but waited until morning to begin the search. They've been out there all morning. The street's blocked off... no fly zone above... they're doing quite a bit of digging, particular behind a shed. They've removed a tree, or bushes or something. Brought in a Bomb and Arson truck, allegedly just for the use of their equipment, but one of the tips is that some burned clothes were found. (Remember the dumpster fire that night, reported at 2:30 a.m.?)

 

Turns out the dad was at home with the kids when Deborah went shopping for wine with her brother. Moms comes home, dad leaves for work, mom gets drunk, then something bad happens. Then (supposedly) the brother called there at 2 a.m. Dumpster fire reported at 2:33 a.m.

 

But whatever happened, there has GOT to be something there to prompt the digging and tree removal. And they had to have had some kind of "just cause" to get a search warrant. They've already been in and searched the house with the parents there, but the parents were taken to someone else's home yesterday (during the search in the woods), and now they're not allowed back at the house at all.

 

They've got at least one hole that's deep enough that investigators are down *inside* the hole.

 

I just feel sick over this. :crying: Live video is here, btw... scroll down past the initial article: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old

 

Is this stated fact somewhere...or a theory? I'm just wondering where it says this.

[Donna A.]

Is this stated fact somewhere...or a theory? I'm just wondering where it says this.

 

Someone mentioned it on the Facebook live feed for kmbc.com.

[BatmansWife]

Someone mentioned it on the Facebook live feed for kmbc.com.

 

I went to the kmbc.com website (I don't have a Facebook account) but coudn't find it. It's a pretty busy (cluttered) site with lots of baby Lisa stories. I missed that information. If anyone finds it and can link it that would be great.

[Jennifer3141]

The live feed thing is CREEPY. Who would want to be watching when/if they actually find something?!? :(

[Donna A.]

I went to the kmbc.com website (I don't have a Facebook account) but coudn't find it. It's a pretty busy (cluttered) site with lots of baby Lisa stories. I missed that information. If anyone finds it and can link it that would be great.

 

 

You'd have to scroll through all the Facebook comments, of which there are now over 500.

[AuntieM]

The burned clothes aren't a new thing. That came out (I think maybe the same interview in which mom confessed to being drunk?) as mom described the interrogation of that first couple of days. She said that they'd showed her some burned clothes and demanded she tell them where the baby was. They investigated the dumpster contents further when they searched that landfill over a week ago.

 

I'm *guessing* since the drunk admission, the kids have been questioned further and the story is beginning to unravel. Because the hotshot, media-hound PI and defense lawyer are now involved, I'm also guessing we'll have no further announcements from the KCPD until they have something BIG to announce.

[Donna A.]

The burned clothes aren't a new thing. That came out (I think maybe the same interview in which mom confessed to being drunk?) as mom described the interrogation of that first couple of days. She said that they'd showed her some burned clothes and demanded she tell them where the baby was. They investigated the dumpster contents further when they searched that landfill over a week ago.

 

*I* hadn't heard about the burned clothes until today. (I don't recall it being mentioned in this thread, either.) I knew the rest, though.

 

 

I'm *guessing* since the drunk admission, the kids have been questioned further and the story is beginning to unravel. Because the hotshot, media-hound PI and defense lawyer are now involved, I'm also guessing we'll have no further announcements from the KCPD until they have something BIG to announce.

 

I don't know, supposedly the parents still aren't "allowing" the police to re-interview the boys. Doesn't mean they haven't, though.

[BatmansWife]

You'd have to scroll through all the Facebook comments, of which there are now over 500.

 

Uh....yeah, not gonna happen.

:D

I guess I'll wait to hear these new details, if true, on the Today Show.

[Murphy101]

Any resolution on this one? :(

[elegantlion]

Any resolution on this one? :(

 

Nothing. There is speculation that the baby was sold. The family is moving back into their house, and basically the media has dropped it because the family seemed almost hostile to any help being offered.

 

I haven't followed it recently, maybe someone else has more information.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Nothing. There is speculation that the baby was sold. The family is moving back into their house, and basically the media has dropped it because the family seemed almost hostile to any help being offered.

 

I haven't followed it recently, maybe someone else has more information.

 

Kidnapped by a stranger, then sold? Or sold by her parents? Those are both horrible thoughts.

[Murphy101]

How sad is it that we are at the point of praying the baby was sold? At least then there is a chance some couple out there has a baby they desperately want to love..

[elegantlion]

Kidnapped by a stranger, then sold? Or sold by her parents? Those are both horrible thoughts.

 

by the parents.

[Jennifer3141]

How sad is it that we are at the point of praying the baby was sold? At least then there is a chance some couple out there has a baby they desperately want to love..

 

It's completely pathetic. And something tells me this woman will have another baby by the end of next year. :glare:

[DawnM]

I have not been keeping up with this story. I admit I just assumed the parents were guilty from the beginning.

 

Have the police given up the search?

 

 

Dawn

[staceyobu]

I have not been keeping up with this story. I admit I just assumed the parents were guilty from the beginning.

 

Have the police given up the search?

 

 

Dawn

 

As far as I know, they don't have anything left to go on. Of course, they could just be keeping quiet. I hadn't heard the speculation the baby was sold? It is crazy to me that a child can just vanish into thin air.

[Jennifer3141]

It is crazy to me that a child can just vanish into thin air.

 

Like one missing sock or something... :glare:

[DawnM]

I still think about Kyron Horman, who went missing in Oregon over a year and a half ago.

 

The police said there were a lot of things "they wish they didn't know." But they aren't saying what those things are, and NO arrests have been made and no body or boy found.

 

Dawn

[BatmansWife]

Nothing. There is speculation that the baby was sold. The family is moving back into their house, and basically the media has dropped it because the family seemed almost hostile to any help being offered.

 

I haven't followed it recently, maybe someone else has more information.

 

by the parents.

 

:eek: Really?? Wow....I hadn't heard that at all.

 

I still think about Kyron Horman, who went missing in Oregon over a year and a half ago.

 

The police said there were a lot of things "they wish they didn't know." But they aren't saying what those things are, and NO arrests have been made and no body or boy found.

 

Dawn

 

I often think about Kyron too....I think mostly because it's an unusual name and the name of my little nephew. I just can hardly believe that they don't know where he is.

Same with Holly Bobo.....Michelle Parker..... I know they are not children, they are older (but still young...in their 20's). How can people just vanish without any trace at all???

[In the Rain]

I guess the case mentioned in the other thread gives a little more credibility to the idea that a child can be taken from their bedroom. We lived near the area where Kyron disappeared, so I still think about him too.

[Donna A.]

I live locally. There are still several different theories being tossed around.... all centered around either sold by the parents, or dead and the parents were somehow involved.

 

Parents HAVE moved back into the home. That happened a few weeks ago.

 

Parents are not accepting help from anyone. Several others with missing children have offered advice, support.... Lisa's parents have refused it all.

 

Lisa's parents told the people doing prayer vigils to go away.

 

Parents have not participated in ANY of the organized searches by citizens, since day one.

 

The KCPD has disbanded the special investigation group that was originally set up for Lisa's case. They are still working on it, of course, but leads had dropped to a level where they couldn't justify keeping all those officers away from their regular desks anymore.

 

:sad:

[kalanamak]

I live locally. There are still several different theories being tossed around.... all centered around either sold by the parents, or dead and the parents were somehow involved.

 

Let us hope the poor thing has a better home now.

[Mommy22alyns]

I still think about Kyron Horman, who went missing in Oregon over a year and a half ago.

 

The police said there were a lot of things "they wish they didn't know." But they aren't saying what those things are, and NO arrests have been made and no body or boy found.

 

Dawn

 

Yep, he's Rebecca's age and that case really upset me. I was thinking about baby Lisa recently too.

[HeidiKC]

I live locally. There are still several different theories being tossed around.... all centered around either sold by the parents, or dead and the parents were somehow involved.

 

Parents HAVE moved back into the home. That happened a few weeks ago.

 

Parents are not accepting help from anyone. Several others with missing children have offered advice, support.... Lisa's parents have refused it all.

 

Lisa's parents told the people doing prayer vigils to go away.

 

Parents have not participated in ANY of the organized searches by citizens, since day one.

 

The KCPD has disbanded the special investigation group that was originally set up for Lisa's case. They are still working on it, of course, but leads had dropped to a level where they couldn't justify keeping all those officers away from their regular desks anymore.

 

:sad:

 

Where did you hear a theory about the baby being sold? Is this a theory of the police or some detective, etc.? Or just random people on FB or something? I haven't heard anything about that.

 

I do understand them asking the prayer vigil people to relocate. That would be really hard to have going on in your front yard on a nightly basis, especially for their boys. I know those people are caring, but they are strangers and in the front yard. I think I'd just want a break. And some privacy.