Poll: (CC) Raising Voice a Sin?

[WTMCassandra]

For conservative Christians: Do you believe that every time you raise your voice to your children, even a little, that is fleshly/carnal/a sin and you should confess and apologize?

 

This is an honest poll, not a snarky one.

 

ETA: I mean raising voice at all in the context of correction or instruction, due to Daisy's valid points on my old/failed thread.

Edited September 23, 2011 by WTMCassandra

[Parrothead]

No.

 

From a conservative Catholic view point, no it is not a sin to be confessed (mortal). A sin needs three things to be mortal - to be a serious matter, knowledge or firm belief that the action is seriously wrong prior to committing it and full consent of the will. An emotional outburst probably does not meet those requirements.

 

It would probably fall under venial sin if a sin at all. Those are forgive at mass.

[Daisy]

No. That's crazy.

 

I have to raise my voice to yell across the street to them that it's time to come in for dinner.

 

I have to raise my voice when they are running around outside laughing and screaming.

 

I raise my voice when they are zoned out on a movie.

 

Sometimes we raise our voice simply to be heard.

 

No way is that sinful.

 

CAN raising my voice be sinful? I imagine it can be based on the state of my heart at the time. I would never assume that raising voice automatically equals sinful. If anything, it would be anger I would need to repent of IF I was raising my voice on a regular voice out of anger.

[TXBeth]

If God has personally convicted you that you should not raise your voice, then yes, it is a sin for you to go against that.

But Biblically speaking, no, I don't believe that yelling is specified as sinful.

[WTMCassandra]

If God has personally convicted you that you should not raise your voice, then yes, it is a sin for you to go against that.

But Biblically speaking, no, I don't believe that yelling is specified as sinful.

 

This is someone's standard for me, not a personal conviction. The person thinks also that I am overall carnal and that is why I am not convicted about it.

[Janie Grace]

I think you can raise your voice in urgency, to get a point across. I am sure the prophets, apostles and JESUS raised their voices at times so that their listeners would understand the importance of what was being said. I do the same. If there is a bad/hurtful pattern I am seeing in one of my kids and they seem to be "who cares?" about it, I absolutely will modulate my voice so that they understand they need to wake up and take it seriously. I have no pricks of conscience about that at all. OTOH, if I have lost self-control and am "going off," I do believe that's sin that requires apology.

[WTMCassandra]

OTOH, if I have lost self-control and am "going off," I do believe that's sin that requires apology.

 

Yes, but how do you define that? The person who has this standard for me thinks that raising my voice at all qualifies as the above.

 

ETA: I'm really not trying to be difficult. I'm trying to understand what the Biblical standard is.

[Orthodox6]

This is someone's standard for me, not a personal conviction. The person thinks also that I am overall carnal and that is why I am not convicted about it.

 

Sure tempts me to reply, "That is her problem, not yours." Unless she possesses divine powers of mindreading, coupled with the divine authority to act upon it.

[WTMCassandra]

Sure tempts me to reply, "That is her problem, not yours." Unless she possesses divine powers of mindreading, coupled with the divine authority to act upon it.

 

To maintain board rules, let's just say that I am not positionally able to discount this person's opinion.

[Daisy]

If you feel really naughty you could send them this verse.

 

Cry aloud; do not hold back;

lift up your voice like a trumpet;

declare to my people their transgression,

to the house of Jacob their sins.

Isaiah 58:1

 

Or on a more positive note, how about this one...

 

On a bare hill raise a signal;

cry aloud to them;

wave the hand for them to enter

the gates of the nobles.

Isaiah 13:2

 

or let's look at the Psalmist...

 

I cry aloud to God,

aloud to God, and he will hear me.

Psalm 77:1

 

Snicker.

 

Of course if this person is CLOSE to you and does see something and is telling you this in love, it is always a good idea to take it to the Lord and see what he says about it. :-)

[WTMCassandra]

Let me just say that I am SO appreciating the responses thus far. They are really helping me think/process.

Edited September 23, 2011 by WTMCassandra

[WTMCassandra]

If you feel really naughty you could send them this verse.

 

Cry aloud; do not hold back;

lift up your voice like a trumpet;

declare to my people their transgression,

to the house of Jacob their sins.

Isaiah 58:1

 

Or on a more positive note, how about this one...

 

On a bare hill raise a signal;

cry aloud to them;

wave the hand for them to enter

the gates of the nobles.

Isaiah 13:2

 

or let's look at the Psalmist...

 

I cry aloud to God,

aloud to God, and he will hear me.

Psalm 77:1

 

:001_smile:

 

I needed a smile today. Thank you.

[TravelingChris]

Is being deaf or hard of hearing a sin? No? Then raising your voice isn't either. I know I talk to loudly. I know it at least is partly because I have some loss of hearing (ten years ago, it wasn't enough for a hearing aide, I need to get my hearing checked again). But anyway, people who can't hear well talk louder than others as a natural reflex. They can't hear and therefore they speak up. If someone calls me on it, I lower my voice. But I am not doing it in anger just like the others said that calling children in, chastising children, getting someone's attention, etc,. are also totally legitimate and non sinning examples of raising one's voice.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My children seem to think that it is a sin. I tell them "No, it is my job to correct you. Sometimes it means being stern to get the message across."

 

Also- unless this person's name is "Holy Spirit" their job is not to convict you of sin. If they are an employer or overseer in a church setting, I would get myself out from under their authority.

[Aubrey]

If you are raised by a sweet, calm-voiced mother who never loses her temper, you will fail to be socialized to know that when you pick your nose on the bus or dump your trash in the street or do any number of other obnoxious things (like not returning your grocery cart--just kidding!!), other people want to yell at you, too. Your mother is the voice of society in your life, so that you don't have the uncomfortable experience of strangers yelling at or moving away from you.

 

That's what I've decided, anyway. :D

[justasque]

I think perhaps a discussion with this person is in order. Why do they feel that way? Are they concerned about how your dc react? (In which case are they seeing something you aren't?) Or is this more of a "women should act in this specific idealized way" kind of thing.

 

If the latter, it needs to be examined, teased apart, and discussed with wise elder counsel who don't see things in black and white but can understand complexities and the dangers of this kind of idealized expectation, with both of you participating in this process. I say this even if, and especially if, the person is your spouse.

 

Certainly peace and gentleness and harmony are all good things, but they should come from within, not from a surface, "appearances" expectation of behavior, and different personalities will show gentleness in different ways. Even those who practice very gentle parenting sometimes raise their voices. The basic techniques of gentle parenting can be learned over time and with experience and elder guidance; it is something worth striving for, but one should not expect perfection nor do I believe perfection should be the goal.

 

ETA: In addition, every child is different, and some need to see stronger emotional cues in order to perceive feelings.

 

There is no "one right way" to parent. Every parent is different. Every child is different. We all muddle through in the end.

Edited September 23, 2011 by askPauline

[HSMom2One]

It totally depends on the state of the heart when the voice is raised. I think one needs to remember that a bitter, evil heart (or even a spontaneous sinful action) can be communicated non-verbally or by a whisper. Likewise, a raised voice can express both goodness and sin.

 

I think that's why the Psalmist wrote, "May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing unto You...". The heart, mind and mouth work together in partnership.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Joanne]

Other: it CAN be "sin". It is not automatically or necessarily sin.

[usetoschool]

It depends on your attitude at the time and your purpose. I think automatically categorizing something like that as sin is a bad idea and leads to all kinds of legalistic rules. Who defines the "yelling"? At what point does it become "yelling"? 20 decibels? 21? 22? Is it just raising the volume or is it the words? or the tone? or anger?

 

I am guessing the person has a right to talk to you about your behavior but I think the bigger question to discuss is if not this method, then what? Let's talk about how to solve problems in the heat of the moment. If they have no stewardship regarding your life then they need to be told thanks for the concern but we will take care of our family the best way we can and you can take care of yours the best way you see fit.

[regentrude]

Jesus "cried out as he taught in the temple"

I take that to mean that he raised his voice.

 

No sin.

[justamouse]

No.

 

From a conservative Catholic view point, no it is not a sin to be confessed (mortal). A sin needs three things to be mortal - to be a serious matter, knowledge or firm belief that the action is seriously wrong prior to committing it and full consent of the will. An emotional outburst probably does not meet those requirements.

 

It would probably fall under venial sin if a sin at all. Those are forgive at mass.

:iagree:

[WTMCassandra]

Thank you, everyone. I really appreciate hearing your perspectives.

[Chris in VA]

To maintain board rules, let's just say that I am not positionally able to discount this person's opinion.

 

Ah, so it's your hubby? Don't answer that. :D

 

I think if you are raising your voice because you are constantly pissy and that sort of thing, then, yes, that would be wrong. It's the state of the heart. But I wouldn't get legalistic about that.

 

And honestly, I am not so sure that pointing out someone else's carnality without offering help and encouragement to that person, and without also acknowledging both your part in it and your own issues, isn't sin, too.

[amey311]

I'm guessing this is a non-blood relation who lives in your home? ;)

 

I've apologized for raising my voice when dealing with my children or a certain other adult in my house. Sometimes I am sorry. And sometimes, honestly, I'm not. And sometimes I'm sorry days later and apologize then.

 

being non-religious, though, I'm speaking here of apologizing to the person at whom I shouted.

 

there are times, though, when I could see the shouting as perfectly justified and not warrant apology.

 

[the sink spout has popped out and water is spraying everywhere]

Me: help me!

Other Person: (distractedly) in a minute

Me: I need help now!

OP: yeah, there's 3 minutes left of this quarter and then i'll be up

Me; [loudly] the sink broke - i need you NOW

OP: gimme just a minute

ME; OH HOLY CATS THERE"S WATER EVERYWHERE GET UP HERE NOW!

 

Now, all those "effective communication" rules would say that I should've said, "Honey! The sink is shooting water everywhere! Come help!" Right from the beginning. However, that's not always how life works, because it could be I've walked in on junior hitting the spigot off with a hammer, and I'm digging towels out and wrestling the hammer away ("give me that NOW!") and trying to pick up my good shoes off the closet floor before they get wet too, etc. I'm thinking of too many things to be polite, and I need you now.

[TranquilMind]

Yes, but how do you define that? The person who has this standard for me thinks that raising my voice at all qualifies as the above.

 

ETA: I'm really not trying to be difficult. I'm trying to understand what the Biblical standard is.

Well, YOU know what your motivation is, not this other person. If you are really shrieking in anger and hurting the kids, you should stop (yeah, I"ve done it a lot, so I'm preaching to myself here!). If you are just raising your voice on occasion to be heard, then you will hear your own conscience on that. I do admire those people who never, ever raise their voice; I just don't know how to be one of them.

 

Goodness, she/he should worry about her/his own relationship with the Lord instead of correcting you in reference to yours. If you are in error, the person should PRAY FOR YOU, not repeatedly correct you. My husband is a genius in this respect. Whenever I lose it, he is praying, not chastising! 23 year long good marriage.

[unsinkable]

If God has personally convicted you that you should not raise your voice, then yes, it is a sin for you to go against that.

But Biblically speaking, no, I don't believe that yelling is specified as sinful.

 

Are you saying that God contacts us personally to tell us that there are specific non-sinful acts that ARE in fact sins if we commit them?

 

:confused:

[Harriet Vane]

I find that the answer to this question really is cultural.

 

White folks tend to think that raising one's voice is tantamount to sin.

 

I have lived for the last 14 years in an African-American neighborhood and as a member of an African-American church. I find that African-Americans do not perceive raised voices in the same way at all. A Latino friend also says that her Caribbean culture doesn't have the same stigma attached to raised voices.

[hollyh]

Simply the act of raising your voice - no.

I do think that we (and by we -I mean I) too often raise our voices at our kids when unnecessary. I know I do out of frustration, anger, etc. when I should be able to control myself, take a step back and speak in a lovingly frustrated manner. ;) Even though that is natural, I still believe it is sinning.

 

One thing I think of is - would I be ok if someone else spoke to my kid that way? If not, then clearly it is sinning. If they were running in the street - I wouldn't care if someone yelled at my kid. But if they simply weren't following directions, I would want someone to find a different way to get their attention/get them to follow directions.

[ktgrok]

I find that the answer to this question really is cultural.

 

White folks tend to think that raising one's voice is tantamount to sin.

 

I have lived for the last 14 years in an African-American neighborhood and as a member of an African-American church. I find that African-Americans do not perceive raised voices in the same way at all. A Latino friend also says that her Caribbean culture doesn't have the same stigma attached to raised voices.

 

LOL, we have a good friend that is Latina. She is the loudest out of all the friends. When my husband traveled to Puerto Rico for the first time he finally understood why, lol. He said it was a whole country of people as loud as our friend. In the airport he was looking for a quiet corner to read, then realized there wasn't such a thing as a "quiet" public area! Totally cultural.

 

I yell a lot. I'm loud. It drives my sister nuts, she constantly tells me to "use my inside voice." Yes, she tells me as an adult to do that.:glare: Partly it is hearing loss from multiple ear infections, partly it is my natural enthusiam. I'm a passionate person, and that comes across in my volume. But I'm not being angry or hateful. Just loud. No sin there.

 

I'm also the type of parent that tends to say things like, "The next time you drop your pencil I'm going to staple it to your fingers." But I don't MEAN it, my children KNOW I don't mean it, and I don't find it to be violent or sinful.

 

I HAVE sometimes lost my temper. I actually tend to get quieter then. That I apologize for. But my usual loud "Everybody GET IN HERE NOW!" bellow? Nah, just my personal culture.

[mommaduck]

I find that the answer to this question really is cultural.

 

White folks tend to think that raising one's voice is tantamount to sin.

 

I have lived for the last 14 years in an African-American neighborhood and as a member of an African-American church. I find that African-Americans do not perceive raised voices in the same way at all. A Latino friend also says that her Caribbean culture doesn't have the same stigma attached to raised voices.

Depends on the "white folks". I know some Polish people that consider raising one's voice, heavens even arguing, to be a virtue :lol:

[mommaduck]

LOL, we have a good friend that is Latina. She is the loudest out of all the friends. When my husband traveled to Puerto Rico for the first time he finally understood why, lol. He said it was a whole country of people as loud as our friend. In the airport he was looking for a quiet corner to read, then realized there wasn't such a thing as a "quiet" public area! Totally cultural.

 

I yell a lot. I'm loud. It drives my sister nuts, she constantly tells me to "use my inside voice." Yes, she tells me as an adult to do that.:glare: Partly it is hearing loss from multiple ear infections, partly it is my natural enthusiam. I'm a passionate person, and that comes across in my volume. But I'm not being angry or hateful. Just loud. No sin there.

 

I'm also the type of parent that tends to say things like, "The next time you drop your pencil I'm going to staple it to your fingers." But I don't MEAN it, my children KNOW I don't mean it, and I don't find it to be violent or sinful.

 

I HAVE sometimes lost my temper. I actually tend to get quieter then. That I apologize for. But my usual loud "Everybody GET IN HERE NOW!" bellow? Nah, just my personal culture.

:lol: I've threatened to hang my kids upside down from a clothes line by their toes. Yeah, they laugh at me when I say something like that. Some of our neighbours have taken their family squabbles out to the middle of the street. Hubby and I have laughed, because we know them, and we just say, "you know they love each other".

[HS Mom in NC]

Of course not.

[Jean in Newcastle]

[quote name=ktgrok;3172814

 

I'm also the type of parent that tends to say things like' date=' "The next time you drop your pencil I'm going to staple it to your fingers." But I don't MEAN it, my children KNOW I don't mean it, and I don't find it to be violent or sinful.

 

I HAVE sometimes lost my temper. I actually tend to get quieter then. That I apologize for. But my usual loud "Everybody GET IN HERE NOW!" bellow? Nah, just my personal culture.[/quote]

 

I am a lot like this, right down to getting quiet when I'm mad. My husband stopped my kids once and said "Do you realize that your mom is almost whispering? You'd better watch it because she's ready to blow!"

[WTMCassandra]

These are all great points about different cultures. But both parties in our discussion are WASPs.

[SnowWhite]

I also have a nonblood relative living in my home who sees the raising of voices in a much different light than I do. He was raised by a genteel southern lady, while I come from a rowdy Midwestern family. Definitely different strokes for different folks. I'm glad I've never been told it was a sin, LOL!:D

[Jean in Newcastle]

These are all great points about different cultures. But both parties in our discussion are WASPs.

 

I'm a loud, passionate WASP that was raised in a quiet Asian culture. Some is just different personality.

[Mommyfaithe]

Yes, but how do you define that? The person who has this standard for me thinks that raising my voice at all qualifies as the above.

 

ETA: I'm really not trying to be difficult. I'm trying to understand what the Biblical standard is.

 

Does this person matter?? I am thinking only my husband would have any right to even think that of me. Now, I come from a LOUD family. My kids are pretty loud. Dh...comes from a very quiet family. It took him a long time and some my side family dinners to realize we weren't yelling...just talking LOUD...LOL.

 

If it is another person putting this crud on you, I would say they are sinning by pride...and a holier than thou attitude, and out to remove their own log before tampering with your speck...KWIM?

 

Faithe

[WTMCassandra]

Bumping in case people logging on in the evening have anything to add. I have so appreciated the input.

[Harriet Vane]

Depends on the "white folks". I know some Polish people that consider raising one's voice, heavens even arguing, to be a virtue :lol:

 

Really? I am of Polish extraction. My grandmother was an immigrant. While it is true my mother is loud, most of my relatives are quiet and consider raised voices to be exceedingly low class. I wonder if the Polish folks you know are outside of the norm for their culture, because I would have said that European culture in general does not look kindly upon raised voices.

[mommaduck]

Really? I am of Polish extraction. My grandmother was an immigrant. While it is true my mother is loud, most of my relatives are quiet and consider raised voices to be exceedingly low class. I wonder if the Polish folks you know are outside of the norm for their culture, because I would have said that European culture in general does not look kindly upon raised voices.

No, I think they were just lower class, Polish hicks. The grandmother was pretty darn proud of using whiskey on her kids' teething rings...

[OrganicAnn]

I lived in Ireland for a year when I was a kid and after living there for several months, it was very easy to pick out American Tourist because they were so loud. It wasn't that they were yelling, but there ordinary speaking voice was so much louder than the average speaking voice for someone in Ireland.

 

I didn't answer the poll because I'm not a 'conservative' Christian. I don't think "yell at" is good for children. I think there may be good reasons to sometimes raise a voice to get attention, in an emergency, etc. If you are constantly raising your voice, then maybe a little self examination is in order.

[Alenee]

I have to admit, I'm shocked that some answers have entertained the idea that the OP meant anything like yelling up the stairs to call kids down for dinner. I perceived the OP's question as yelling *at* her kids, rather than calmly speaking to them (or speaking with a stern tone of voice) of their offenses,. :confused: However, having said that, I wanted to share a scene from my shopping trip today to illustrate that the voice being raised shouldn't be the issue...it's the words coming out and the heart with which those words are spoken.

 

Out shopping with dd, I was waiting for her outside the dressing area when I overheard a mother chastising her 5-ish yo son. Her voice was moderately raised; not what I would consider yelling, however the words coming out were horrible. One of the lines I kept hearing her repeat was, "I cannot believe you would do that! No normal person would ever do that!" Meanwhile, the mother had set the kid down on the bench nearby (boy left there SOBBING so much so that he sounded like he was going to throw up), while she rambled on and on as she perused the clothing. Now, I'm the first to admit I lose my temper from time to time so I cannot judge. However, this type of action is just as bad, imo, as yelling the same thing.

 

Yelling, stern voice, quiet voice...it's the words and the heart. period.