s/o of s/o Why do some women not put effort into their appearance??

[Sebastian (a lady)]

When I was in high school I did make up. I attended college at a military school where any extra 15-20 minutes was either going into the professional obligations (learning my first year and training the other years), the 16-23 credit hours I was carrying each semester, or sleep. After commissioning into the Navy, my first division officer job was as a ship's boilers officer. Temps in the workspace ranged between 85 (in the air conditioned control spaces) and 120 (on the boiler front or on the upper levels). Many days I was hard pressed to catch a shower and make up would have just melted off of me.

 

Fast forward and now I really do not care to wear make up. Even waterproof mascara runs down my face a few minutes after putting it on (yep, even expensive stuff). I'd rather look washed out than like a racoon.

 

The last few times I put on make up, dh's response was "oh, makeup", not "hey you look nice". So why would I put money and time into this?

 

I love a good haircut. But I'm not willing to pay $100 for one. I am proud of the grey hair I have. It comes as a result of being an experienced woman with a little wisdom under her belt. IMHO, grey hair isn't something to fear.

 

Do I look washed out? Quite possibly. But I also know that my dh delights in me, still, after all our years together. Quite possibly because of all our years together - not because I look like the 22 yo he met, but because I am the woman who has been at his side all this time.

 

(As for the clothes, honestly, the gym and not the department store is my priority.)

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Okay, thanks for clarifying.

 

Truth be told though, I've met some pretty poor impoverished women who are pretty vain using any definition of the word. Women who would have their acrylic nails over feeding their children.

 

I've heard of that and I believe its true, but we don't tend to see that kind of poverty in our neighborhood. On my side of town the neglected kids are losing out to beer and Nascar.

[Parrothead]

I've heard of that and I believe its true, but we don't tend to see that kind of poverty in our neighborhood. On my side of town the neglected kids are losing out to beer and Nascar.

Ah, yes, beer and Nascar. I gotcha.

 

 

I know it takes all kinds, and I suppose there can be advantages to one basically raising oneself, but really, some choices parents make cause me to want to :smash::smash::smash: some people's heads

[kiana]

:grouphug:

 

I like this post! You could have come back wailing about being misunderstood and attacked, but you didn't. You clarified your own intentions and examined your own motivations without accusing, placating, groveling, or backtracking. You didn't even say, "And that's why I never post on these boards! I can't take all this fighting and drama!" LOL

 

That's what I love about WTM'ers. Do we have a Bee of the Day award?

 

:iagree:

[Audrey]

I agree, except I don't think people should wear pjs in public unless under extreme circumstances. ;)

:iagree: :lol:

[mommaduck]

I agree, except I don't think people should wear pjs in public unless under extreme circumstances. ;)

 

Yes, I want to understand why pj's are the style for people now, complete with slippers. Or why men's underwear always has to hang out (with or without booty). All right, maybe it has to do with where we moved to.

[Parrothead]

Yes, I want to understand why pj's are the style for people now, complete with slippers. Or why men's underwear always has to hang out (with or without booty). All right, maybe it has to do with where we moved to.

No, I see all that here too. I can't say more without sounding insulting.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I am sighing right along with you. I don't usually post on these kinds of issues-you will see that I hardly ever post on the forums at all. I regret posting in this one earlier. Not because I regret what I said or believe about this issue, but because in an artificial environment such as an internet forum a lot is lost. We can not see each other face-to-face, we can not hear the person's actual voice and we can not see the messages conveyed through body language. The immediacy of response causes us to lose the valuable asset of time that allows us to step back and consider a statement carefully and our response to that statement just as carefully.

 

We have lost sight of the big picture when we allow ourselves to be caught up in petty bickering over issues that are not sin. Since this a homeschooling forum, I am assuming that all of us here are parents who are home educating our children and we came here because we were looking for answers to questions, support for the hard days and friendship in a sometimes isolating lifestyle choice.

 

Why are we bickering about this issue? It has nothing to do with home educating our children. All of the energy spent in this defensive stand-off could have been directed at lifting each other up as we begin another school year and all that goes with it.

 

As I said before, our Creator made us all different and He was pleased with His work. That means He finds value in diversity. Maybe we should too. So I like to wear make-up. Big deal. I still care about my children as passionately as those of you who do not. Wearing it or not wearing it doesn't make us better people, better parents or better Christians. It's just who we are and what we've decided to do for whatever reason. I don't believe that on Judgment Day God is going to judge me based on something as petty as whether or not I happened to wear mascara or not. I just don't think He cares a bit where I get my clothes from or what style my hair is. Instead, I believe He will judge me based on how I treated His children and how I judged and treated them during my time on earth. He will judge me based on whether or not I did my best to train my children in the Way that they should go and whether I treated my brothers and sisters here on earth the way I would want to be treated and whether or not I let others see His love through me.

 

Time is too short and the days too evil to spend it tearing each other down for these kinds of issues. I need help and support on this journey we call homeschooling, and I bet you do too. Let's focus our energies there, shall we?

 

~Love to all

 

These aren't my reasons for being a member of this board. I love the discussions about classical home education and curriculum, but I'm mostly here for the intellectual stimulation. I like the discussions and the jokes that inevitably show up in the most heated threads. I love arguing against a friend on one thread and arguing alongside the same person on another topic.

[matermagistra]

These aren't my reasons for being a member of this board. I love the discussions about classical home education and curriculum, but I'm mostly here for the intellectual stimulation. I like the discussions and the jokes that inevitably show up in the most heated threads. I love arguing against a friend on one thread and arguing alongside the same person on another topic.

 

And this just affirms my point about diversity. To each his own. I'm glad for you that you can glean from it what you need.

 

~Love to all

[SweetBean]

Why do people care about this 'appearance' stuff so much? [as evidenced by 20+ page threads]

 

Just do your thing - whatever that may be - and let others do theirs. :cheers2:

:iagree:

I don't understand why it is even important to comment about someone else's appearance. To each his own. I don't wear make-up on a regular basis, only when I'm dressed up, and then it is so little that I don't look made-up. I wear my hair long, not the most up-to date style, but I think it is flattering that way. Some probably think I'm too old for long hair, but my hair grows so fast I would need a trim every week or two if I had a fussy style. I don't have the time or money for that. My natural look is a reflection of who I am. I don't wear sweats or dress frumpy, but I do wear nice jeans or capris with a top when I go out. Not fancy, but that's just me. I'm sure some people think I should be more fashionable. I don't, and my DH likes me the way I am. I do however, work out and maintain a healthy weight. Health is something I won't sacrifice.

[myfunnybunch]

OP here. I didn't realize that this would be as controversial and sensitive as shopping cart returns, crockpot choices, or shoes/no shoes in the house.

 

I read and re-read my post and can see how it could come across as condescending. While I didn't *think* I judged people based on their appearance, I often wondered why they make choices that are different from mine. After reading these posts, I need to examine whether I'm being curious or judgmental.

 

Thanks to all the people who answered the question in the spirit in which I intended. Many of the answers were: sickness, religious reasons, bad school experiences, lack of knowledge, allergies, disinterest in current fashion, lack of time, lack of money, and so on.

 

I'd like to send a message out specifically to those who have difficulty affording basic necessities and thus can't afford make up. That's called having the right priorities. If anyone thinks that you should spend money on a haircut instead of buying your kid's shoes, well, they are crazy. Yes, you can call that judgmental.

 

Appearance is so personal that it's easy to feel judged, on both ends of the spectrum and even in the middle, because it happens so often in real life. That makes it easy to read judgement that isn't there. And face it, we do judge others based on appearances. We just don't say so out loud, usually. It's been an interesting discussion. :)

 

Cat

[piraterose]

This is my answer about make-up usually - I love this quote from The Mirror Has Two Faces:

 

Gregory Larkin: You don't use make-up, do you?

Rose Morgan: What's the point? I'd still look like me, only in color.

 

I just find it's a waste of money. I only wear it around my mom on special occasions because it usually causes world war 3.

 

I could dig deep down and say it's because of my facial birth defect and I don't like drawing attention to my face. And that may be why I have no interest. But really I just have better ways to spend my time and money.

 

I just don't understand why some people (like my mother) feel that make up is a requirement not an option.

Edited August 12, 2011 by piraterose

[YLVD]

I think that those pointing fingers about others being "vain" are the ones being offensive and insulting.

[twoforjoy]

I put very little effort into my appearance. I don't wear make-up. I don't spend much time on my hair (it's curly, and I either pull it up or keep it down, and let it air dry). I have a very limited wardrobe. I teach part-time, two days a week, so I've got two pairs of work pants and four work shirts, and then t-shirts and a few pairs of jeans/casual pants for the rest of the time. I walk regularly, but for the mental and physical health benefits. I don't worry about weight and we don't own a scale.

 

It was funny, because last night DH and I went out to dinner. (My parents are here to help with the new baby and they watched the kids.) I was wearing some khaki cargo pants, a t-shirt, no make-up, and had my hair in two pigtails with a bandana on top. My parents were like, "So, how much time do you need to get ready?" I was like, "I'm ready. This is it." ;) I don't do dress up, unless it's somebody's wedding, pretty much.

 

For me, I just don't care. I'm not an appearance-oriented person. I'm the person who doesn't notice for two weeks when a friend gets a drastic haircut or my husband shaves his beard. It just doesn't register with me. It's not something, for me, that's worth putting time, money, or effort into. As long as I'm clean and smell good, and everything is covered that needs to be covered, I don't worry about prettying up. I usually look in the mirror once in the morning, when I'm combing my hair, and that's it for the day.

 

There are plenty of issues I struggle with--selfishness and covetousness come to mind--but vanity isn't one of them. And I don't think that makes me somehow more virtuous, because I think a big reason for that is that I'm kind of oblivious and in my own world most of the time, but I do think it makes me life somewhat simpler that I don't struggle in this area. It also helps that, where I live, I'm just not around too many people who focus on appearance at all. I'm very fortunate for that, and I'm especially glad that my kids are in this environment right now. I'm always amazed to see how worked up people get about things like--gasp--seeing somebody wearing PJ bottoms in the grocery store. I can't believe they'd even notice. I was at the grocery store today, and aside from one adorable little girl about my DD's age who had a really cute headband on, I didn't notice what anybody was wearing. It just doesn't occur to me to pay attention to that, much less to actually become upset over what other people were wearing.

 

I feel like, my job isn't to be a decorative object, and if that bothers somebody, that's their problem. But I'm not going to worry about make-up or fancy clothes or whatever just to please other people, and since those aren't things that make me feel confident or together or good (in fact, I tend to feel fake and stiff when I do wear make up or get more dressed up), it's just not where my energy is going to go.

Edited August 12, 2011 by twoforjoy

[twoforjoy]

I just want to add, this idea that not caring about your appearance is a sign of depression is not always true.

 

I'm the opposite. When I'm feeling good about my life, I could care less what I look like. It doesn't register. When I start fretting about how I look--how big my butt is, that I need new clothes, that I should wear make-up--it's because I'm feeling low. I've never personally felt this association between feeling confident and happy and wanting to look physically attractive. I only worry about how attractive I am when I'm feeling insecure or depressed.

[Medstudent]

What I find sort of fascinating about this conversation is that just a couple of weeks ago, there were people on this forum up in arms about "modesty" and how children should have good examples so others should dress more modestly so we don't "all have to see everything hanging out", and how hard it is to find modest clothes, etc.

 

And now there are people here up in arms about being judged for their appearance because they haven't brushed their hair, waxed their mustaches, washed their shirt, etc. in the name of thriftiness, saving time, or just not caring about such silly things. Judgment is judgment. And everyone has their priorities. For some, going online to find the long-sleeved swim shirt and the skirt that doesn't show your ankles- that's a priority. Others spend that time putting on a coat of mascara and brushing their hair. As long as you feel good about yourself at the end, who cares. And as long as you don't judge the other woman down the street for the choices she made...

[Renee in NC]

Probably this thread is dying, but I wanted to add something.

 

I have been to Nepal four times. Nepal is one of the poorest countries in the world. Those women have style. They scrape together money for nail polish and nice outfits when they are not sure how their families will eat tomorrow, because they have to look good to get work and keep respect for their husbands to keep their jobs. They are experts at trimming their own hair and they take excellent care of cheap plastic flip flops to make them actual accessories.

 

I live close to an agricultural communtiy with migrant workers. A friend goes out and paints fingernails and cuts hair for those women, who also scrape up money for goodwill clothes to make a decent "look". I have seen nurses and other women who make waaaaay more money than those migrant women who don't look as good on their best days as those women do going to mass.

 

Some really poor women know that there is only one life on earth and they spend it holding up their heads.

 

There, I just wanted to speak for those women, because I respect them so much. That is all.

 

That is awesome. More than just awesome - it gives me a totally different view of this topic. Thank you so much!:D

[Renee in NC]

:grouphug:

 

I like this post! You could have come back wailing about being misunderstood and attacked, but you didn't. You clarified your own intentions and examined your own motivations without accusing, placating, groveling, or backtracking. You didn't even say, "And that's why I never post on these boards! I can't take all this fighting and drama!" LOL

 

That's what I love about WTM'ers. Do we have a Bee of the Day award?

 

:iagree:

[mcconnellboys]

I know that I used to wear sweats and t-shirts when I was off work because I had to dress in business suits (dress suits, not pant suits) daily for my work, complete with pantyhose, high heels, and all the accessories. I found it tiring to wear all that confining stuff all day long every day (and some of my days were 12 plus hours). It felt good to be in soft, non-confining clothing and out of full make-up. There was a news anchor woman who lived in my town at the time and I occasionally saw her out having tea, alone, sans make-up and in sweats, just like me. I could totally identify. That may not be the case at all for most folks who you see out and about who look like they don't care about their appearance, but I think it certainly might be true for at least some folks....

 

Maybe I'm more cognizant of such things because I'm not pretty and have lots of auto-immune related skin problems, so my skin's not lovely to look at, either. It's hard for me to find a make-up that offers coverage and doesn't bother my skin and make it even worse than usual. My hair is very thick and looks horrid in every way I've ever worn it except short and straight (and even that is not all that terrific). So I tend to think that some folks are not going to look all that great, no matter what they do, and perhaps some folks just give up after trying and trying....

[WishboneDawn]

 

What I mean is wearing unflattering clothes, an unflattering hair cut, and for some, not wearing any make up. (While some women look great without make up, some looked washed out and tired without it.)

 

You're equating the above with not taking effort into appearance and I think you're off on the wrong foot because of it.

 

The things you mentioned above are things you need to have some knowledge about. You need to understand how clothes and haircuts make a body/face look. You need to understand how to apply make up. I know a lot of women that put effort into their appearance. They do a lot of grooming and put thought into their clothes. But by your standards they might not look like they do because they don't understand how a certain length of skirt or cut of hair doesn't flatter them.

 

They might also be quite comfortable with how they look. The tired/washed out looking lady might look in the mirror and see a face with a character.

 

You're talking about something quite different from effort.

[HeidiKC]

Because one afternoon of shopping and 15-20 minutes a day is too much to ask for sometimes.

 

 

Thank you!

[HeidiKC]

:iagree: I've recently gained a lot of weight and have barely any clothes that fit me. It's like putting lipstick on a pig for me. I have the weight of the world on my back and what someone else thinks of my appearance is a really freaking LOW priority. :glare:

 

:thumbup1:

[HeidiKC]

Because I'm 7.5 months pregnant. My clothes don't fit anymore and I don't feel like dragging myself out in the heat, puking, to buy new ones for the barely 8 weeks that I have left. I've had Hyperemesis the whole time so I feel like cr@p most of the time and it's all I can do some days to just get out of my pjs and put on regular clothes. I don't normally wear much makeup, but I don't wear any now. It was 110 degrees today with the heat index and my face is already breaking out like crazy from all the pregnancy hormones so putting on makeup is the LAST thing on my mind right now. I have a short, feminine cut that I keep up for the most part so I guess I'm at least doing that right.

 

I'm sure people are thinking the same thing when they see me these days. :crying: And honestly that just makes me sad to think that people are judging me when they see me picking up my kids from camp or at the grocery store because I'm not "put together." It's not that I wouldn't like to feel better and look nicer. I just don't have it in me right now to do one. more. thing.

 

:leaving:

 

:grouphug::grouphug: I find it hard to believe that people are judging you. I don't think most people (including women!) even NOTICE that kind of thing because they are too busy trying to keep their kids from grabbing bags of chips off the shelves or sucking on the grocery cart bar. I have never "noticed" a woman out and about who I wondered about not being "put together", having an outdated hairstyle, etc.! I don't think I'd notice what someone was wearing unless it was VERY odd - like maybe a man in a hot pink spandex suit, or a woman with hair like Marge Simpson. I've got too much else to do or think about!

 

Now it's different at something like a dinner party or a mom's coffee or other social event. I would notice because then I am focused on the other attendees, speaking directly to them and probably noticing if someone has a particularly cute outfit (which some of them will, being women out at a gathering with other women). So I guess in my subconcious or whatever I become aware of outfits and it would seem out of place if a gal showed up in a rather dumpy outfit. I don't think I'd notice or care about no makeup. I wouldn't think less of someone who showed up in something dumpy, not looking put-together, but might be concerned or feel sad. Thinking she must not feel well, be depressed, be too exhausted to get it together or whatever.

 

But out at Target or whatever? I figure the not put together look is kind of the required uniform - a busy mom, without a lot of time on her hands...and if she had enough time to get all fixed up and cute - what the heck is she doing at Target? She ought to be at the Ladies Auxiliary or her bridge club or something.

[Carrie75]

I don't put in much effort because I get too much unwanted attention when I do put on makeup and nicer clothes. The guy at the gas station stares too long, the creepy guy at Costco calls you "darlin'." I hate the unwanted attention from men.

[HeidiKC]

One of my least favorite Junior High memories is of the day the cheerleaders attacked the pentecostal denim skirt wearers. The topic in the class was cultural differences (it was a "Multi-cultural Studies" class) and the makeup-less skirt-wearers were asked by the teacher why they looked as they did. My friend Gina answered very sweetly and simply that her church believed women were pretty enough without makeup, and modesty was valued.

 

She was ripped to shreds for that, and the teacher didn't stop it. The mean girls accused her of implying that they were sluts for wearing short shorts and lipstick. They asked her if she thought she was better than them. They asked her how she'd ever get a boyfriend wearing a sack like that, and how she could stand to leave the house without makeup. She hadn't said any of that! And she was the last person to comment on the appearance of others, mindful though she may have been of her own.

 

The teacher didn't stop the abuse, so I did. "How dare you ask her," I said, "and then allow her to be ripped to shreds for her answer?"

!

 

WOW. That makes me so sad! And WOW that you stood up for her. What did the teacher say?!

[PeacefulChaos]

In the last thread, some were talking about being low maintenance about their appearance. This is different than not putting virtually any effort forth.

 

What I mean is wearing unflattering clothes, an unflattering hair cut, and for some, not wearing any make up. (While some women look great without make up, some looked washed out and tired without it.) At the same time, is it necessary to get up and put on makeup every single day? Even if you have no intentions of leaving the house?? I usually do if I'm going anywhere, but there are usually 1-2 days a week I don't wear makeup. My husband doesn't care. And what do you mean by unflattering clothes?? So if one doesn't look good in the clothes they are wearing, they should buy something they DO look good in? Like if I don't look great in shorts but look good in a skirt or pants, I should wear one of those even if it is really hot outside (making the pants impractical) and I'm going to the park to play with my kids (making the skirt impractical)? And the unflattering hair cut... well, I get that. But sometimes people don't know it's unflattering til after they get it. Hair grows. Whatever.

 

I don't think money is the cause. Even if one shops at Goodwill, nicer fitting clothing is the same price as old, baggy sweat pants. Mascara and blush at Target would cost $10 every six months. Uh... right. Sorry, but for those people who 'don't look good without makeup' mascara and blush alone aren't going to change anything. Foundation, concealer, blush, etc, etc... not that I don't wear makeup, but why do you even care?

 

I also don't think weight is an issue as people of all sizes look attractive when they make an effort. I do agree.

 

An updated haircut costs as much as an outdated one. But again, you never know how a haircut will look ON YOU til you get it! And if you are talking 80s haircuts... well, I'd wager they probably cost a lot less than updated haircuts :tongue_smilie:

 

I ask this question because I often see a woman wearing baggy sweats and an old, ill-fitting tee shirt, and I wonder why she doesn't take a bit more effort for herself. It takes one afternoon of shopping and 15-20 minutes of extra time in the morning. It's difficult to believe most people can't spare that small amount of time. I will say that I sometimes leave the house in jeans or shorts and a t-shirt. With my hair in a ponytail (I hate it, but its hot. So oh, well). Are people really snap judging me because I'm wearing a tshirt???

 

My dd works with a woman in her 50s. She wears jeans and different colored Gap tee shirts. She pairs them with different scarves and always looks great. Simple, decent quality, inexpensive.

 

Again, I'm not talking about people that favor a low-maintenance look. That's intentional and attractive, too. I'm wondering about those who do not take any time with their clothing, hair, or skin.

 

To be quite honest, this entire thing is quite inflammatory. I've not read any of the other responses, but I'm shocked to even read that anyone feels that there is a requirement for how everyone should dress and take care of themselves. As long as they are clean and well maintained, who cares???

:confused:

[susankenny]

Honestly, because some women could give a rat's a$$ what they look like.

 

 

Susan

[PeacefulChaos]

And I forgot to add, I have a lot of shirts that aren't 't-shirts' - but they may not be the most flattering. An afternoon of shopping to find clothes that fit well and are flattering? What a laugh.

[mbosh237]

I have really had to think, rething, type, delete, and then type again because the originial post is just crazy.

 

As if we don't put enough pressure on ourselves, we what...now have to worry about what perfect strangers think of us and if we are pleasing enough in their sight to justify leaving the house? Are we in high school again?

 

There could be many many reasons. But first and foremost, just because you don't think someone looks good doesn't mean someone else thinks so.

 

So why, you ask, does one dare leave the house in baggy clothes, and no make up on...

1) Maybe their child was up all night sick and they had a few minutes to run to the store to try to feed the rest of the family.

2) Maybe their husband or child has a fatal illness and they focus all of their time and energy on that person instead of worrying about what some random stranger thinks of them.

3) Maybe they were outside working in the heat, trying to get some yardwork done, but forgot something they needed and had to run out.

4) Maybe that woman had lost their job, their child, their husband, their parent, etc just days, weeks, or months before and they are dealing with depression and could really care less what they look like.

5) Maybe that woman has twins, triplets, quads, several younger children, and that extra 20-30 minutes you speak of just plainly doesn't exist.

6) Maybe the woman has no eartly clue how to BE fashionable and so just doesn't try. It doesn't come natural to all people.

7) Maybe that woman is have some serious PMS, nothing fits, she feels grows and fat and bloated and could really care less at that particular moment.

 

Maybe, maybe, maybe....

[PeacefulChaos]

So now that I have actually read the replies thus far...

I actually fit into the other category. :001_huh:

I was thinking of myself as one of the ones who 'doesn't take enough time on herself' because I see people here, all the time, who are DECKED OUT. Like, seriously. Sometimes I would like to look like that. But most of the time...nah. Looks too uncomfortable. I hate really tight clothes. And impractical ones. I'm more the jeans (or shorts, though I look much better in jeans) type. Or skirts. I love skirts.

Anyway, after reading everything else I've realized I'm actually on the other side of it - since I do wear makeup most every day, and I don't own any sweatpants (I have yoga pants but they are for working out), and I do TRY to look nice. I would like to look nicer, but I don't have the means to be able to go everywhere searching for clothes that fit me well. My jeans fit pretty well, but I currently only have 1 pair that does, and 1 pair that is a little too big. My shirts are ok but not really 'fashionable' or 'stylish' - I bought most of them off the clearance rack at Kohls, or at Ross. They aren't necessarily my style, but they were what was available in my price range, in my size. I have discovered that I generally dress bigger than I am - like, I tend to buy pants/dresses/shirts/etc too big because I want to be comfortable, and I'm worried that my stomach is going to look too pudgy in a shirt that is a little bit smaller, etc. (I am working on shedding some pounds, but just by changing my eating habits. I'm not going to be dropping massive amounts of weight anytime too soon. Currently, based on the chart for weight/height, I'm about 5 lbs overweight) I'm not in love with my body the way it is, and that is probably why I don't have a lot of clothes that fit well. I keep hoping (I'm sure I'm not the ONLY one who does this :tongue_smilie: ) that I'll lose the weight and fit back into my other stuff! :D But when (if) I do get a little bit of extra money that I don't need for kids birthdays/Christmas/etc, I would like to find some clothes that fit me better.

I love doing my hair. Well, I don't love fixing it every day (and I literally had a woman chastise me for that once. Like she was like, 'Kara!' all condescending and such, when I told her I don't blow dry/fix my hair in the mornings. Even for church lol) but I like for it to look nice. Right now I'm growing it (DH doesn't like short hair anyway, though we have discussed that there will come a point when I need to cut my hair short. But I'm still a good 20-30 years from that right now :D ) because I'm going to donate it to Locks of Love when it gets long enough. In the past I've done all sorts of colors, etc. I'm already planning, when I cut it again, to put in some blue streaks. :D So I do love the hair aspect.

And I do love getting done up for stuff. One of the things I'm definitely lacking in is shoes. I wear flip flops all the time, which I love, but then when I need something else I'm like... oh.... crap... :lol:

[celticmom]

I do not wear makeup because I have multiple inhalent and skin allergies and don't want to take the chance of an allergic reaction. I literally make my own deodorant because I have had underarm rashes from expensive natural ones. I have to be very careful of the personal care products that I use so I minimize my use of such products.

[ciyates]

I honestly can't imagine anyone caring about how I go out. My DH has been married to me for 18 years and has seen me every circumstance from being dressed for formal balls to giving birth. He doesn't see the outer beauty he sees the inner beauty. I don't consider it necessary to put on makeup for the grocery store/gym/co-op/yard work.

[sassyscrapperinid]

I would say there is a big difference between sacrificing cleanliness and sacrificing vanity.

 

:iagree:

[Carol in Cal.]

OK, let's back this up, guys.

What does it MEAN that there is such a strong set of opinions and judgements here about this issue? We are probably a somewhat intellectual bunch. We think critically.

 

Does it mean that we are brainwashed by the popular media into an unrealistic view of what people should look like, that is only accomplished by application of chemicals? Do we apply this only to women and not to men, and if so, is this sexist? Discuss...

[melissel]

I just want to add, this idea that not caring about your appearance is a sign of depression is not always true.

 

I'm the opposite. When I'm feeling good about my life, I could care less what I look like. It doesn't register. When I start fretting about how I look--how big my butt is, that I need new clothes, that I should wear make-up--it's because I'm feeling low. I've never personally felt this association between feeling confident and happy and wanting to look physically attractive. I only worry about how attractive I am when I'm feeling insecure or depressed.

 

This is so me, too.

 

Does it mean that we are brainwashed by the popular media into an unrealistic view of what people should look like, that is only accomplished by application of chemicals? Do we apply this only to women and not to men, and if so, is this sexist? Discuss...

 

IMO, yes, and yes. I think most people expect a moderate degree of hygiene from men, but beyond that, no one expects men to use eyeliner and mascara to make their eyes "pop," lipstick to make their lips rosier and fuller, powder to even out their skin tone, etc. No one equates men not wearing any makeup with their looking washed out and tired, or their T-shirt-and-jeans attire as anything other than utilitarian and practical. My husband can go out in workout clothes and no one thinks anything of it, but there have been threads here about what many of us think of women who go out and about in workout-style capris and a tank top.

 

So yes, I believe, it's sexist and a double standard, and yes, I believe that media sets and propagates the expectations. I haven't subscribed to magazines for many years. This year I treated myself to Whole Living, Everyday Food, and Bon Appetit. I can barely stand to read them because of the product-pushing "articles" and features.

 

I still find it hard to believe anyone cares about how other women dress, make up their faces, or wear their hair. Who are we trying to impress at the grocery store? Park playgroup? Co-op? Why does it matter if my face looks washed out and tired today? If you think my face looks tired and unpleasant, don't look *shrug*

Edited August 13, 2011 by melissel

[CAMom]

After reading all 17 pages of this thread I have learned that I am vain, selfish, prideful, foolish with my money, ignore my family, lack self confidence, and don't care about the suffering of others because I take time for myself, care that I wear nice clothes, wear make up and have my hair done. Thank you all for educating me on what a horrible person I am.

Why is it okay to judge a person who puts effort into the way they look, but not people who don't?

 

Don't forget that you are a huge time waster.:glare:

 

This is exactly how I've been feeling. The whole thing may get addressed later in the thread but this is as far as I've gotten so far.

[melissel]

Don't forget that you are a huge time waster.:glare:

 

This is exactly how I've been feeling. The whole thing may get addressed later in the thread but this is as far as I've gotten so far.

 

I actually don't think any of that is true. I think it's all a matter of priorities (as was mentioned repeatedly). I don't fault anyone for spending more time/money/mental resources on their appearance. If that's what you want and what makes you feel good, great. I don't understand the mentality of those who are harsh toward people who don't care to do so, though.

 

I'll admit that it occasionally boggles my mind when I hear people talking about the expensive makeup or personal care products they "must" have, and then I remind myself that it boggles others' minds how much I spend on grass-fed beef and pastured eggs and organic produce, and how I won't buy my clothes from Target or Walmart because I hate the way they fit. My priorities are different. I don't really care what others' priorities are unless they're impacting mine in some way.

[ChandlerMom]

If the appearance focussed aren't feeling the love, never fear, you've got the media pouring your message on our young girls.

 

http://depts.washington.edu/thmedia/view.cgi?section=bodyimage&page=fastfacts

 

When I see a woman in 110F heat with her hair perfect (and DOWN) in a spotless dress and heels I admit I think, "Is that ALL that you're good for?"

 

I think a woman can look drop dead gorgeous in a t-shirt and a ponytail without a lick of makeup. Ironically, most guys prefer the "natural" look to a woman all dressed up. I clean up good. :lol: I just don't feel the need to dress up to buy a carton of milk.

 

I want my girls to buck the trend and be comfortable in their own skin, know their true beauty, even true PHYSICAL beauty, has nothing to do with the primping and clothes. ANd that their appearance is just a small, minuscule part of who they are and has NOTHING to do with my love for them.

[mbosh237]

I actually don't think any of that is true. I think it's all a matter of priorities (as was mentioned repeatedly). I don't fault anyone for spending more time/money/mental resources on their appearance. If that's what you want and what makes you feel good, great. I don't understand the mentality of those who are harsh toward people who don't care to do so, though.

 

I'll admit that it occasionally boggles my mind when I hear people talking about the expensive makeup or personal care products they "must" have, and then I remind myself that it boggles others' minds how much I spend on grass-fed beef and pastured eggs and organic produce, and how I won't buy my clothes from Target or Walmart because I hate the way they fit. My priorities are different. I don't really care what others' priorities are unless they're impacting mine in some way.

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

Of course, I am the woman who allowed my 5 year old to go to the store with me in mismatched prints, and a long sleeve shirt on when it was 100 degrees simply because the insuing fight to get her to change just wasn't worth it that day! I'm sure there were many who were judging me and wondering how I could allow my child out in such a get-up!

[UnsinkableKristen]

When I see a woman in 110F heat with her hair perfect (and DOWN) in a spotless dress and heels I admit I think, "Is that ALL that you're good for?"

 

 

 

Wow.

 

Next time I have to go anywhere in the summer in Texas I'll make sure I look just good enough to not be considered sloppy, but not so good that I look like I can't have any other purpose than to spend my time on my hair and clothes.

 

Heaven forbid I be on my way to a nice occasion and have to stop at Target for pads.

[Violet Crown]

Wow.

 

Next time I have to go anywhere in the summer in Texas I'll make sure I look just good enough to not be considered sloppy, but not so good that I look like I can't have any other purpose than to spend my time on my hair and clothes.

 

I think that's pretty much the required look for shopping at Whole Foods, isn't it?

[sassyscrapperinid]

:iagree: This is the way I took the OP.

 

Frumpy and ugly - I had a friend who would buy things and be proud of her purchases. She would get bargains and deals and had a full wardrobe. But what she thought of as cute and stylish, I thought of as butt ugly. I never said anything, but there would be no way I'd be caught dead wearing her clothes. So maybe when one sees what one considers ugly clothes, the wearer may think they are brilliant clothes.

 

And thats okay right? I mean, its okay for her to have the clothes she likes without being worried about some stranger thinking she doesnt know how to dress herself, isnt it?

My whole take on the OPs question is how can women walk around looking different from what her (the OPs) standards seem to be regarding personal appearance? And the part where she asks why a woman would want an outdated haircut/style is what sealed that for me.

I used to wear tons of make up and had my hair cut regularly- but cut in a short style I liked- not what was in fashion. Now a days- and 7 children later, I hardly ever wear make up and now I am growing my hair out because I want to- not because long hair may or may not be in style. My dh prefers no make up at all. He likes me au naturale. I dont necessarily but I just dont worry about it for a trip to the grocery store or the walmart. I do make sure that I am clean and dont offend anyone with body odor or bad breath, which in my opinion is really what matters, before I leave the house. All that being said though, I *do* do my own nails. My dh likes them and my real nails break so easily and down below the quik so I have started wearing these. I dont like having to pay money for something like that but its only about 10 bucks a month. I do have make up, but like I said, rarely ever wear it. The only foundation I like that doesnt rub off on things like clothes and stuff is bare minerals. I ran out and cant afford to buy more right now. As far as clothes.... Since my short hair and heavy make up days, I have gotten big, but have started losing weight recently due to better diet and exercise. My clothes are all baggy. I have always made sure that my clothes cover the areas that I want covered. I wear baggy shirts because my b00k shelf is pretty full, and I dont like the way tight shirts show my "love handles". :lol: I also prefer not to have my circulation cut off at my waist line so most of my pants are a little big I suppose. I dont wear sweats hardly at all. I dont like to have to be thinking about how uncomfortable I am because of my clothes while reading to the kids or whatever. If I continue to lose weight, I am curious if I will wear more form fitting clothes. I dont know. But if I do, it certainly wont be because I am worried about what some stranger thinks of how I look while we pass each other for a few seconds or minutes in the walmart. Just my .02 worth.

[justamouse]

I think that's pretty much the required look for shopping at Whole Foods, isn't it?

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Sarcasm done well.

[sassyscrapperinid]

"Outdated' 'fashionable' 'unflattering'

 

All 3 terms are personal opinions being applied to strangers. How is that not imposing her standards on someone else? Its making a judgement on them, isn't it?

 

:iagree: .

[sassyscrapperinid]

What I would not be okay with is her insulting me or other people if we happened to disagree with her. Also, I'd find it disappointing if she seemed unwilling to change or adjust her perceptions based on new knowledge or information she hadn't considered before.

Maybe Im the only one who thinks this but I feel that by her posting, she is insulting others who chose not to get all gussied up to go to the walmart. Just because you dont wear make up or have a trendy hairstyle or make some kind of super effort while shopping for and then later picking out your clothes for the day doesnt mean you dont care how you look. It just means (with the exception of those who are depressed and lost interest in themselves) that perhaps people just dont have the time to put into it. Yes, even that 10 minutes a day. Or they really cant see using money for that, whether they have the money or not. Or that they just dont want to. Maybe they dont like the way make up feels. Others have written that they are allergic. I mean, I just dont think it is worth worrying about while passing someone in the walmart or grocery store. I can see there maybe being a curiousity there, but I thought her post was judgmental. It might leave someone thinking, "oh- my hair is _______ and not in any sort of style that someone I dont know might find unflattering so there is something wrong with it." Never mind if that woman loves her hair. If the question had been why do some women not wear make up, I could understand. But when she said why do some women have an "unflattering hair cut" or "wear unflattering clothes", it rubbed me the wrong way. Then it wasnt just about why some women prefer not to wear make up, it then became why do some women not take proper care of themselves the way she *feels* they should. I mean really, it is just her opinion of how she feels women should maintain their appearance. Who is she to decide if someones hair style is unflattering if the woman wearing the hairstyle is completely thrilled with it? Maybe these women she is talking about love their clothes, but she finds them unflattering so it makes it wrong for them to be wearing them. And then quite frankly who is she to decide if someone can or can not afford make up? Even if it is only $10 every 6 months? I priced mascara the other day and the cheapest I saw was $1.99 at my walmart.... but Im sure we are all familiar with you get what you pay for. And then, the Maybelline mascara was $9.99!! Who would want to risk buying the cheaper product, and then having some kind of reaction due to the quality of the product? Some women already know they have sensitivity issues so they dont even bother because the mascara they might be able to use would cost more than the $10. I dont know, I just thought the whole thing was offensive because of the way it was worded. Who cares if her haircut is outdated as long as its clean and well kept? Maybe that ill fitting shirt is a favorite shirt that the woman wants to wear that day because she just genuinely loves it?? Thinking about it, I would be one of those women she would find unflattering. I guess though that it doesnt really matter because my kids and husband love me and find me beautiful even without all the make up, the stylish outfit, and updated, flattering hairstyle. And their opinion is what matters- not some strangers who I am probably never going to see again passing me by in the walmart.

[jennynd]

wow.. that is a weird thread... when I am trying to teaching my daughter that appearance is not the most important thing, it is what inside count. I found this thread very shallow.

I don't wear make up unless goes to a party. I have a long overdue haircut. I work as an engineer and most of us are like that. and I don't see anything wrong with it. There is a lot more in life than putting on make up and go salon

[WishboneDawn]

If the appearance focussed aren't feeling the love, never fear, you've got the media pouring your message on our young girls.

 

http://depts.washington.edu/thmedia/view.cgi?section=bodyimage&page=fastfacts

 

When I see a woman in 110F heat with her hair perfect (and DOWN) in a spotless dress and heels I admit I think, "Is that ALL that you're good for?"

 

I think a woman can look drop dead gorgeous in a t-shirt and a ponytail without a lick of makeup. Ironically, most guys prefer the "natural" look to a woman all dressed up. I clean up good. :lol: I just don't feel the need to dress up to buy a carton of milk.

 

I want my girls to buck the trend and be comfortable in their own skin, know their true beauty, even true PHYSICAL beauty, has nothing to do with the primping and clothes. ANd that their appearance is just a small, minuscule part of who they are and has NOTHING to do with my love for them.

 

Good for you but when you're judging the lady with the perfect hair and spotless dress I hope you're not doing it out loud so you're daughters can hear.

 

The REAL message of harm in the media is not that you have to look like _____, it's that if you don't look like ______, you're open to criticism and judgement. By judging that women with perfect hair you're not combatting the media message, you're falling happily in line with it.

[WishboneDawn]

Wow.

 

Next time I have to go anywhere in the summer in Texas I'll make sure I look just good enough to not be considered sloppy, but not so good that I look like I can't have any other purpose than to spend my time on my hair and clothes.

 

Heaven forbid I be on my way to a nice occasion and have to stop at Target for pads.

 

Or heaven forbid you just had a day where you wanted to dress up a bit with no other reason then just to dress up. We're allowed to do that, aren't we?

 

ETA: I should add that I'm posting as a woman who generally goes around in old jeans/sweatpants and t-shirts until my husband gets frustrated once every 2 or three years and drops me off at the mall with the instructions to not come back without lots of clothes.

Edited August 13, 2011 by WishboneDawn

[sassyscrapperinid]

Because I'm naturally cute, and have long, curly red hair that does what it wants, and I make these sweats work! Because confidence is attractive and being afraid to leave the house without hiding behind make-up seems silly for a grown woman. :lol:

 

love it!!! :lol:

[CAMom]

I actually don't think any of that is true. I think it's all a matter of priorities (as was mentioned repeatedly). I don't fault anyone for spending more time/money/mental resources on their appearance. If that's what you want and what makes you feel good, great. I don't understand the mentality of those who are harsh toward people who don't care to do so, though.

 

I'll admit that it occasionally boggles my mind when I hear people talking about the expensive makeup or personal care products they "must" have, and then I remind myself that it boggles others' minds how much I spend on grass-fed beef and pastured eggs and organic produce, and how I won't buy my clothes from Target or Walmart because I hate the way they fit. My priorities are different. I don't really care what others' priorities are unless they're impacting mine in some way.

 

:iagree:

 

I think what I'm observing here is that there are words with "moral implications" attached being used.

 

When one says, "let herself go" or "doesn't care," those have a moral connotation that what someone is doing is not right.

 

On the other side, when someone says, "I don't waste my time on that," or "That is not a wise investment," etc., they are making a moral statement that their perspective of what is a wise investment or a wise use of time is the proper method of measure.

 

I also find that when I am tempted to look at someone else's appearance and judge it, what I am really doing is projecting my own feelings and actions upon them. For instance, when I am dressed in sweats (although I don't currently own any) and a wrinkled t-shirt with no make-up and my hair not blow dried, it is because I am feeling lazy and/or unmotivated. So, I can easily project that onto someone else. I have to stop myself and realize that just because that's how I would be feeling about myself if I were presented that way does not mean that is how someone else is feeling.

 

In like manner, I hope that another woman can stop herself if she's tempted to look at my minimal makeup and accessories and assume that I am caught up in my phsyical appearance and that I waste my money. Just because that may be true for her if she were to present herself the way I am does not mean it's true for me.

 

I am really working at looking at everyone for who they are and not what I am tempted to project upon them.