HeidiKC Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Had to vent somewhere, hoping you ladies could give me some feedback! Issue #1: As we're getting out of the car he tells me about a fellow scout who punched him and left bruises! I guess ds spent about 3 hours building a fort and the other scout decided to wage war on the fort. DS told him to stop, the kid would not, so ds broke his stick. The kid went ballistic and punched him 10-20 times in the back. I was shocked when I saw it - all red and scratched up and a bluish-red welt. It looks pretty bad, so I took a photo to send to my husband (and later I'll send to the Scoutmaster). DS never hit the kid back. About 20 minutes later the kid came back and said, "I demand an apology" WHICH MY SON THEN GAVE HIM! And kid walked away. A bunch of campers saw this, including one dad who told the kid to stop, but I guess that was the end of it. DS is not the type to ever get into altercations with other kids (I think this is the first time it's happened) and isn't difficult or anything. Also tells me the truth, so I believe this is what happened. This is not just a ignorant mom saying this - because I wouldn't say this about my other two! So I guess I'm going to call or e-mail the Scoutmaster and hopefully he'll let the other parents know? Or is this "boys being boys"??? I worry that in a couple of years when this kid is a teen and a lot stronger, he could really do some damage. Issue #2: I know a lot of you probably won't agree with me on this, but I am livid! On the bus ride there and the bus ride back they showed PG-13 movies. My son is 11 and we do not allow that. I know that lots of parents of 11 yos do allow that, but you'd think they'd err on the conservative side (not wanting to rile any parents?!) and keep them PG. They didn't mention this ahead of time and I never thought to ask. Just seems like there are plenty of PG movies (or even "Follow Me, Boys!") that they could watch and enjoy very much. I'm just sad, mad and disappointed. I think the leader is excellent and really like the troop, but these two things are really upsetting to me. Thanks for listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Reasons #999-1000 why we'll never do boy scouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowfall Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 The kid shouldn't have hit your son. Your son shouldn't have broken his stick. They were just boys being boys, IMO, but that still doesn't mean it's okay and no adult needed to intervene. Clearly, an adult should have stepped in and stopped it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I don't think you're over-reacting about either, but particularly about your first issue. Your son needs to know this is not okay, and needs to learn to speak to someone in charge when this sort of thing happens (something similar happened to my son, and he didn't really feel like "tattling" on the boy, so he didn't go to the person in charge.) Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 :grouphug: I would be contacting the scoutmaster and showing the pictures. THis was NOT a case of boys being boys, it was bullying and should be reported. As to the movie, I fully agree. I occasionally allow my ds to watch pg-13 or 14A movies, depending on the movie and why it was rated such (like Schindler's list, not movies that are violent for the sake of violence). BUT the vast majority of the time and anytime we have other people's children around we keep it at PG or G. I am suprised that adults in charge thought it was appropriate to watch a PG13 movie. I would bring that up with the scoutmaster as well. Incidently, what movie did they watch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I would approach the scoutmaster with an "I'd like to know what happened, I've heard my son, but I'd like to hear others so I can better understand" attitude. That will open the door to further discussion. Also, politely express your concern about the movies. I'd put this one down to "well-meaning but clueless volunteer dad messed up" rather than anything else. If you are friendly and appreciative of their effort, you can help them get it right next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Abuse should not be tolerated. You have every right to be outraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starwarsmomma Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 The movie issue-- The kids are TOLD in advance that g, pg and pg13 movies will be seen. IF a parent has a problem wtih that, the parent needs to bring it up with the scoutmaster. My son was told no less than 5 times in advance, and it's common knowledge that happens. This sounds more like a communication issue-- you need to tell them that next time, it's PG or G only. The drivers can and do enforce it IF they are aware of the parents wishes. The hitting issue-- there are jerks everywhere, that kid is a jerk. But in scouts bullying and hitting IS NEVER TOLERATED. PERIOD. But, if the child doesn't tell an adult it happened, it cannot be dealt with. Child is at fault here for not reporting. Yes, you should immediately contact scoutmaster and report, along with pictures. BSA requires it be dealt with. Doesn't matter what caused it, it's not tolerated. In the long run-- hes OK. Remember that, and move on. If things continue, go further up the chain or change troops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicAnn Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 One punch- eh, boys being boys. 10-20 with bruising? NOT boys being boys. I would be livid as well. Honestly, I would pull him out most likely because this was not brought to your attention. The dad that saw it should have told the Scoutmaster and he should have informed you and the other boy should have been disciplined. On the second issue, I would be upset since we are particular too about what movies we watch, but it wouldn't be a huge issue. I'd mention it to whomever is in charge of that kind of thing, but would expect to be met with resistance. I'm SO sorry that happened to you and your son. Seeing your kid get hurt is never a good experience. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicAnn Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I would approach the scoutmaster with an "I'd like to know what happened, I've heard my son, but I'd like to hear others so I can better understand" attitude. That will open the door to further discussion. Also, politely express your concern about the movies. I'd put this one down to "well-meaning but clueless volunteer dad messed up" rather than anything else. If you are friendly and appreciative of their effort, you can help them get it right next time. Yes, I agree with this. I think this is a great way to approach both situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 The kid shouldn't have hit your son. Your son shouldn't have broken his stick. They were just boys being boys, IMO, but that still doesn't mean it's okay and no adult needed to intervene. Clearly, an adult should have stepped in and stopped it. Breaking someones stick and punching someone until they bruise are not even close to equal.:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpledaizy Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 10-20 punches is clearly a beating and you have every right to be outraged! Not only that, but to get in that many punches shows that supervision was lacking. I'm a scout leader and this is beyond anything I would tolerate at one of my camps. Another leader and I dismissed a boy from our day camp this year for substantially less. If you do not get results from the leaders, elevate your complaint to higher levels. That behavior is totallly unacceptable. I'm so sorry this happened to your ds. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Personally, I would not mention the PG-13 issued right now (even though I would definitely be upset about it), because I think it would distract from the more important issue here. Deal with the beating, and don't worry about the movie for right now. Then next time they are going to be in a situation where they might watch a movie, you can casually say in advance "We'd prefer they didn't watch anything rated higher than PG." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I asked my dh how their troop would deal with it. He asked if the adult that witnessed the incident or the other boy were members of their troop or part of another troop. That will impact the process. If it was within the troop, the scoutmaster needs to take disciplinary steps. (the adult, if actually a leader and not simply an adult that might have been on the premises, should have intervened immediately.) If the events were outside of their troops roster, unless you know the troops involved, there might not be anything that can be done. If the other troop(s) are known, than the scoutmaster can deal with it via the council level. Either way, the scoutmaster should be contacted. Your ds also needs to be assisted in understanding that he should not be intimidated about letting leaders know about things that happen. If this had been addressed immediately, the entire situation should have been dealt with at camp. As far as the movies, I'm surprised taht they watched movies b/c our troop is anti-technology for camping trips, but that would not bother me that much. FWIW, one great way to make sure that this sort of thing doesn't happen is to be actively involved in the troop as a parent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceana Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 BSA has pretty clear rules Members are responsible to act according to the Scout Oath and Scout Law. All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Scout Law. Physical violence, theft, verbal insults, drugs, and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout’s membership. Personally breaking a stick is very different than hurting a person. I would start by contacting your district. Scoutmaster is all well and good but a Scoutmasters job is to the kids in his unit. If your kid is in a different unit... the scoutmaster may not take a serious look at bruises being left on another child. Take your kid to your local district office and show the bruises NOW don't wait. Someone will be in til 5pm. Every district has employees who are overall responsible for these BIG things. Did this happen at a district overnight or day camp? As a BSA leader please report this in person to your district your actions may save another boy from being hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakblossoms Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 the beating is not ok. Being a scout is a priviledge and honor. That shoukd be dealt with. And, am I the only one who thinks it is downright ridiculous to have movies. I mean they are scouts, going on a trip. If my husband was on that trip he would have stopped that right away. what happened to songs and games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildwood Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 My opinion probably won't be the popular one but, if I were in your shoes I would file a police report for battery. That level of violence warrants this action in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybear Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 My first thought is where are the adults? It is camp and is supposed to be supervised. I know that your son is 11, but I think kids need to be supervised fully still at that age. So, when the conflict started and the boys were clearly not able to resolve it, there should've been an adult THEN to help them. It is outrageous that there was even enough unsupervised time for it to elevate to this level. The whole thing pisses me off. The movies too, but I think another poster may be right in holding off on dealing with that. This is clearly a bigger issue. This is one of the reasons I have been hesitant to send my kids to camp (or school, lol). I finally did send them this year to baseball camp, but there really is very little free time there, so this kind of thing doesn't seem to happen. Also, they were pretty well supervised as best as I can tell. Grrrr....for you and your ds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 I called the Scoutmaster. To quickly clarify: it was at camp at a time when Scouts were at their tents relaxing or whatever, so leaders were not right there. One boy's father witnessed it. He was visiting for a few days and did tell the kid to stop. My son assumed that he told the leaders (I think he said he would???). Movies: shown on the bus (fancy tour bus) on way there and on way back. Scoutmaster said rule is PG or G and Senior Patrol knew this and snuck one over on him (he is surprised and said they are good kids). He trusted them and didn't know what the movies shown were rated (shoot, my husband wouldn't either as he doesn't really go to movies). The movies were: Transformers, and School House Rock (Jack Black). Not terrible, but definitely situations and words I didn't want him exposed to. Because they weren't terrible I don't think the Scoutmaster suspected PG-13. Scoutmaster said he never was told about this incident. Was not surprised since this kid was involved in 2 other altercations down there. Said he's going to talk to the dad that witnessed it as well as another dad who knows the kid fairly well. I'm not sure what will happen but I'm guessing the kid gets a warning. I don't mean for this to give Scouts a bad name. It is WONDERFUL and more. I am so incredibly impressed with Boy Scouts and this troop. Obviously I don't care for the kid who did this to my son! And the Scoutmaster needs to make sure his SPLs follow rules! Thanks so much for your feedback. I'm calming down a bit now. Funny thing is, my son doesn't even seem to bothered by it (although I'm sure it was horrible at the time for him). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) This is not boys being boys (I have boys and I'm a leader in our BS troop). This is behavior that should definitely be reported and dealt with. And I would not like PG-13 movies either. We do not allow entertainment devices (ipods, gameboys, etc.) unless the trip is over 2 hours long then they are put away once camp is reached. It is our hope that the trip will foster conversation and develop friendships between the boys. We have scouts as young as 10 in our troop. There is a huge difference in what passes for entertainment with a 10 year old and a 17 year old. I would recommend that you take this concern to your committee during a monthly meeting. You are probably not the only parent who is not happy - some may not even know about it. Edited July 13, 2011 by CynthiaOK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enough Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Reasons #999-1000 why we'll never do boy scouts. I am not a fan of the Boy Scouts of America organization at all and refuse to consider joining because of their national policy to exclude LGBT individuals, but this statement strikes me as really unfair and a bit naive, to be honest. Stuff like this is not unique to BSA- it happens everywhere (even liberal/progressive groups) and avoiding Boy Scouts isn't going to guarantee your kids avoid it. To the OP- I would be blowing my stack about the first issue and really, really annoyed about the second issue. No way, no how is the type of violence you described in #1 "boys will be boys". I can understand wrestling and rough housing but a BEATING? HECK NO. And the fact that an adult KNEW this was going on (SAW IT!) and did nothing? That blows my everliving mind. I would be chewing someone's a$$ off about that, to be completely frank, and would seriously consider police action, or at the very least threatening the troop with that if they did not deliver an appropriate response/disciplinary action to the child who did it, the adult who saw it, and the troop leader who was clueless about what went down. I think showing the PG-13 movies to kids under 13 without parental permission is in really poor taste- this rating is even stricter than the PG rating and is one step away from an R rating. Honestly, though, after hearing about what this troop is letting "slide" (issue #1) it doesn't surprise me that they are playing fast and loose with other issues. It makes me wonder what ELSE they're doing that parents don't know about. Which reminds me- have you read The Gift of Fear and/or Protecting the Gift by Gavin de Becker? If you haven't, the second one especially may be useful to you and your DS. I agree with Halcyon- your son needs to know this type of violence is wrong, the fact that people stood there and watched it is wrong, and he needs to know how to ask for help/tell someone in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowfall Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Breaking someones stick and punching someone until they bruise are not even close to equal.:confused: Don't you just love it when people insinuate you said things you never said? I, personally, do not, but if it's okay with you, go right ahead and do it. :001_huh: Nope, they aren't the same, but they were both wrong, and the fact that one was "more" wrong doesn't make the other okay. None of it was okay. If her son had a problem with the kid messing with his fort, he should've told someone, not broken his stick. If the other kid was mad about him breaking his stick, he should've told someone, not punched her son 10 times. NONE OF IT was okay, but clearly and obviously the worst offense by far was the punching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 It wasn't like this was happening and the adult stood there and let it continue. I don't think he was RIGHT there, but he told the kid to stop and the kid did. No one was allowing it to happen. The other kids who were watching were 11 and probably shocked and scared to pull the kid off, he was so crazy. I don't know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 It wasn't like this was happening and the adult stood there and let it continue. I don't think he was RIGHT there, but he told the kid to stop and the kid did. No one was allowing it to happen. The other kids who were watching were 11 and probably shocked and scared to pull the kid off, he was so crazy. I don't know! I think it also makes a difference that this adult was a visitor and not a scout leader. A scout leader not intervening is a much bigger issue than an non-trained adult who just happened to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceana Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 http://www.scouting.org/jamboree/sitecore/content/home/healthandsafety/gss/gss01.aspx Mandatory Report of Child Abuse All persons involved in Scouting shall report to local authorities any good faith suspicion or belief that any child is or has been physically or sexually abused, physically or emotionally neglected, exposed to any form of violence or threat, exposed to any form of sexual exploitation including the possession, manufacture, or distribution of child pornography, online solicitation, enticement, or showing of obscene material. No person may abdicate this reporting responsibility to any other person. If any child has been physically abused it MUST be reported to authorities PERIOD this includes abuse from other kids. If us as parents would be arrested for these same bruises they are required to be reported to authorities by BSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovemyblessings Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Issue #1: I say forget the scoutmaster- call the police and make a report. It will be the last time that kid beats him. Issue #2: My eleven-year-old will not be allowed PG-13 either. THIS I would bring to the scoutmaster. Some may think calling the police is uncalled for- but I take physical violence very seriously- and so do the authorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love2read Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm so sorry this happened. Our son went to boy scout camp at 12 where he learned about pornography. Apparently I was one of the few people who didn't realize that there are a lot of dirty magazines at those camps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamturner Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 the beating is not ok. Being a scout is a priviledge and honor. That shoukd be dealt with. And, am I the only one who thinks it is downright ridiculous to have movies. I mean they are scouts, going on a trip. If my husband was on that trip he would have stopped that right away. what happened to songs and games? :iagree: Our scouts drove from the Dallas area to Colorado and no electonics were even allowed on the trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Smith Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Issue #1: I say forget the scoutmaster- call the police and make a report. It will be the last time that kid beats him. I would call the police. Some might think it is over reacting. But you can bet that that kid will hence forth leave your kid alone. Your kid will also learn that protecting his body is very important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm so sorry this happened. Our son went to boy scout camp at 12 where he learned about pornography. Apparently I was one of the few people who didn't realize that there are a lot of dirty magazines at those camps. Are you kidding me???! That would really put me over the edge! Kind of off-topic: I'm surprised kids even buy magazines these days with all the stuff they can get online! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 :iagree: Our scouts drove from the Dallas area to Colorado and no electonics were even allowed on the trip. Yeah, I'm not a fan of the movies, either. I also would love to hear they were singing songs and playing games. Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. The movie thing is just another sign-o-the-times and I hate that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campmom Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 these are some of the reasons I would not send my boys away to camp and guess what I live and work at one. Especially boys camp. The moms at girls camp are much more responsible than are the dads at boys camp, I see it over and over.The men act like big kids themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testimony Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I would not smile about this situation either. Situation A= abuse unacceptable. What scout leader was there that it got that far? Yes, your son was wrong to break his stick, but the boy caused bruising. I'm so glad that you took pictures. Send that to the scout masters and see what they say. Situation B= that is appalling too. I feel that putting a PG13 movie on for boys is really serious. PG13 is a mild rated R movie. I have a problem with people pushing PG13 movies on my children before their time. My oldest is 13 years old and I don't know if I would let him see some PG13. I saw the first Transformers and I did not like the lustful shots of the women in the movie. What a way to introduce a young pre-adolescent boy into desires and feeling he does not understand! I would find a diplomatic way to speak to the scout master about the movie issue too. Blessings to you! Sincerely, Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnlvr Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Reasons #999-1000 why we'll never do boy scouts. Exactly what you said. Your comment was neither unfair or naive. I have 4 boys and have been in and around scouting for years. Between incidents where bsa didn't follow their own rules, to exclusivity, to outright discrimination, we left. They are a private club, and so can be that way, but that is not what I want my boys learning. About the issues, I agree with many of the comments. Two wrongs don't make a right, but even in my house, breaking a toy has a different consequence than physical violence. HOPEFULLY, bsa will follow through on that issue and amend the situation. bcn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyforlatin Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 If a parent were to beat a child 10-20 times on the back until welts and marks showed up, I'm sure a neighbor would call the police and social services would intervene. This was a beating that took place in a organized setting, not on the streets. There is a level of care and supervision expected from such an organization and if the injury were severe enough, and the parents wanted to file a lawsuit, the Boys Scouts would be named as a defendant. The Boys Scouts should think about this when you talk to the leader because this particular boy's anger problem could get them into a lawsuit one day. I'm sorry your son had to go through this. It's painful to see your child hurt by another person whether it's by a beating or by words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Situation B= that is appalling too. I feel that putting a PG13 movie on for boys is really serious. PG13 is a mild rated R movie. I have a problem with people pushing PG13 movies on my children before their time. My oldest is 13 years old and I don't know if I would let him see some PG13. I saw the first Transformers and I did not like the lustful shots of the women in the movie. What a way to introduce a young pre-adolescent boy into desires and feeling he does not understand! Thank you. This is EXACTLY how I feel about this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Don't you just love it when people insinuate you said things you never said? I, personally, do not, but if it's okay with you, go right ahead and do it. :001_huh: Nope, they aren't the same, but they were both wrong, and the fact that one was "more" wrong doesn't make the other okay. None of it was okay. If her son had a problem with the kid messing with his fort, he should've told someone, not broken his stick. If the other kid was mad about him breaking his stick, he should've told someone, not punched her son 10 times. NONE OF IT was okay, but clearly and obviously the worst offense by far was the punching. I wasn't insinuating anything, and I'm sorry if it offended you.:001_unsure: That is exactly how I read your comment as saying that both things were wrong and therefore equal. No I do not think it is a big deal for a kids to break a stick that someone is using to destroy something they made. Unless this was some sort of prized walking stick and not one just found along the ground. Breaking the stick might have been a slightly immature response. As for the movies I don't think they should show PG 13 movies to kids under 13 without parent approval. School of Rock is not really that bad, but Transformers(yuck). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I think the leader is excellent and really like the troop, but these two things are really upsetting to me. Thanks for listening. I would question whether the "leader is excellent". This should have been handled promptly and would have been in any Scout activity with which I've been involved. As for electronics, they are restricted by most Scout troops. OK, maybe an appropriate movie on a long bus trip, but our troop only allows personal electronics with headphones during the ride. They must be put away at all other times and I'd hope they would restrict movies when younger Scouts were participating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 I would question whether the "leader is excellent". This should have been handled promptly and would have been in any Scout activity with which I've been involved. As for electronics, they are restricted by most Scout troops. OK, maybe an appropriate movie on a long bus trip, but our troop only allows personal electronics with headphones during the ride. They must be put away at all other times and I'd hope they would restrict movies when younger Scouts were participating. Ok, here's what happened according to the dad who witnessed it. His son had just been in an altercation with this same kid. He felt he needed to tell a leader but I think he was a little worried about coming across as having an agenda with this kid, so went kinda easy on the story. He told the Assistant Scoutmaster that the boys had had "a tussle" but that my ds had handled it well (apologized, didn't fight back, didn't cry, scream, cuss or make a scene) and that all was ok. He told her he thought he should mention it to her but basically everything was under control. This is from the dad whose son an hour earlier had an altercation with the kid. His son went nutso on the kid, throwing rocks, swinging a 6' stick at him and acting like an enraged lunatic. (Our boys are really sounding great, right?!). So this dad's perspective is a bit skewed, having a son that acts that way and isn't generally reprimanded too harshly. Of course my ds didn't make a scene, etc. He was probably really scared and embarrassed and isn't the type to cry in front of people, etc. Doesn't mean he wasn't very upset and hurt! So I'm not happy with the dad, but he isn't a leader. I'm not sure how I feel about the Assistant Scoutmaster, but I think she should have looked into considering even "tussling" was involved and this kid had been in an incident earlier. The Scoutmaster didn't know any of this. So! That's why I think we can't question whether or not he's "excellent" based on this. He had no knowledge of it. I think the dad and Assistant Scoutmaster are more at fault. Depending on how nonchalantly the dad presented it to her, maybe she isn't too at fault. Ugh! Thanks for listening to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lula Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Ugh, what a horrible situation. An additional concern from my perspective is that your son apologized to this kid, didn't attempt to do anything while he was being hit 10 or more times etc. I know that this is not a popular opinion but I think that boys at 11 are at the prime age to need to start working on dealing with physical altercations. I am not saying that your son should start going around beating people, obviously! However, maybe screaming would have been a useful tactic? maybe he should have made a fuss? I don't see why the other dad thought that your son's reaction made everything ok. This kid was hitting him repeatedly, if your son doesn't fee like he can physically defend himself against this kid (when it was obvious that he couldn't get out of the situation in any other way, i.e. when the kid started hitting him) I think his best option may have been to yell for help. It's a little odd but maybe it would be helpful to sit down with your son and go through steps of how to make a scene when one is required? What should he do in a similar even in the future, what if this is happening to another kid etc. I am actually trying to process how I would deal with the situation with my son who is currently much younger so I am sure other people have better advice than I do! ;D Also, I understand that dealing with these situation is difficult, it isn't easy as an adult it can be overwhelming at 11. Best wishes to you and your son. Edited July 14, 2011 by lula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpklehm Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 the beating is not ok. Being a scout is a priviledge and honor. That shoukd be dealt with. And, am I the only one who thinks it is downright ridiculous to have movies. I mean they are scouts, going on a trip. If my husband was on that trip he would have stopped that right away. what happened to songs and games? :iagree: My son is a Scout and you're right, it's an honor and a privilege. He loves it, and is doing quite well. He did come home once with a few scrapes and bruises and my dh reported it immediately. The other kid was written up and demoted within the Troop. Another report and he would have been expelled from the Troop. I'm a protective mom (who isn't?) and I would have preferred to have had this kid expelled immediately, but there is protocol for a reason and it was followed. Our ds is not one to fight back. He's awkward socially, which puts him at a disadvantage when dealing with ps kids (and certain hs kids) who can be quite mean. Unfortunately, there are jerks and bullies everywhere, even within our hs group. Sad but true. Scouting is important to our son, and we're supporting him while doing everything we can to keep him happy and safe. He's grown a lot and is learning many life skills. His Troop is a good one; my ds and dh visited 5-6 Troops before our ds made his decision. This incident needs to be reported asap, otherwise the behavior will continue. The other boy needs to be dealt with, and this can't happen unless the Scoutmaster knows what happened. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceana Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 So I'm not happy with the dad, but he isn't a leader. I'm not sure how I feel about the Assistant Scoutmaster, but I think she should have looked into considering even "tussling" was involved and this kid had been in an incident earlier. The Scoutmaster didn't know any of this. OK lets start with the fact that the dad was in a place where he was the ONLY adult near the kids. This is against the BSA rules. Always 2 adults or more at all times PERIOD. 2nd the father must have had training in order to be on the trip all adult leaders are now required to be trained. Every adult leader should have gone through Youth Protection Training which teaches them exactly how to handle this. It also goes through why they follow the 2 deep leadership policy at all times. Just an FYI BSA suggests every parent involved in scouting (yep even moms who never plan to attend a meeting of their 15 year old son) take Youth Protection http://www.scouting.org/training/youthprotection.aspx You can take Youth Protection Training by going here making an account and doing the online training session https://myscouting.scouting.org/_layouts/MyScouting/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2f_layouts%2fAuthenticate.aspx%3fSource%3d%252f&Source=%2f Seriously go to your district. They will get these people trained and teach them how to handle this stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 OK lets start with the fact that the dad was in a place where he was the ONLY adult near the kids. This is against the BSA rules. Always 2 adults or more at all times PERIOD. 2nd the father must have had training in order to be on the trip all adult leaders are now required to be trained. Every adult leader should have gone through Youth Protection Training which teaches them exactly how to handle this. It also goes through why they follow the 2 deep leadership policy at all times. Just an FYI BSA suggests every parent involved in scouting (yep even moms who never plan to attend a meeting of their 15 year old son) take Youth Protection http://www.scouting.org/training/youthprotection.aspx You can take Youth Protection Training by going here making an account and doing the online training session https://myscouting.scouting.org/_layouts/MyScouting/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2f_layouts%2fAuthenticate.aspx%3fSource%3d%252f&Source=%2f Seriously go to your district. They will get these people trained and teach them how to handle this stuff! Not if he wasn't functioning as a leader. You can visit your children at camp and not be a leader. (I have. Lots of parents visit camp and the troop still has its 2 deep leadership.) I do wonder where all the leaders were. As far as how the adult handle reporting the incident....I think that is problematic but that is not a BSA issue. Not investigating the incident is. I would also encourage the OP's ds to know that he has the right to speak up for himself and seek help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 Ugh, what a horrible situation. An additional concern from my perspective is that your son apologized to this kid, didn't attempt to do anything while he was being hit 10 or more times etc. I know that this is not a popular opinion but I think that boys at 11 are at the prime age to need to start working on dealing with physical altercations. I am not saying that your son should start going around beating people, obviously! However, maybe screaming would have been a useful tactic? maybe he should have made a fuss? I don't see why the other dad thought that your son's reaction made everything ok. This kid was hitting him repeatedly, if your son doesn't fee like he can physically defend himself against this kid (when it was obvious that he couldn't get out of the situation in any other way, i.e. when the kid started hitting him) I think his best option may have been to yell for help. It's a little odd but maybe it would be helpful to sit down with your son and go through steps of how to make a scene when one is required? What should he do in a similar even in the future, what if this is happening to another kid etc. I am actually trying to process how I would deal with the situation with my son who is currently much younger so I am sure other people have better advice than I do! ;D Also, I understand that dealing with these situation is difficult, it isn't easy as an adult it can be overwhelming at 11. Best wishes to you and your son. Thanks for the input and your comments. I have the same thoughts and concerns about this, so your feedback is helpful. We do need to talk to him about yelling or defending himself or whatever. I'm guessing that he didn't want to appear weak or whatever, and was embarrassed that this kid half his size was whacking him. He's kind of shy, too. I think he apologized because he was embarrassed and probably scared the kid would come back for round 2! Also, maybe in the moment he really did feel he should have apologized for breaking the stick since it was wrong. I don't think he saw how crazy the kid s demand was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 OK lets start with the fact that the dad was in a place where he was the ONLY adult near the kids. This is against the BSA rules. Always 2 adults or more at all times PERIOD. So even at camp, every moment 2 adults must be with kids? How does this work since the kids sleep in tents near each other and all the adults sleep in a cabin a bit away from the tents? So obviously at night they are not there, and I'm assuming during rest time in the daytime the leaders are near their cabin. Yes, they can see the tents, but they sure as heck couldn't see what was going on if the Scouts had the flaps closed or they were behind the tent. I guess I need to ask more questions, but I had the impression this was during free-time and the boys were in the woods sort of near the tents building forts. It seems like a lot to expect that 2 leaders will be with ALL the kids at every moment during camp. I know they are serious about 1 adult not being alone with a child, but I don't see how 2 leaders can always be with all the kids at camp when they are in various locations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calandalsmom Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 what a load of drama. the parent stopped it, what more do you want? The rule isnt that 2 adults have to be present at all times. My dh drove 3 scouts to camp. The rule is you cant be one on one with a kid. I would definitely call the scout master about the beating up incident. I would not at all think the adult who intervened "wasn't to be trusted". I would not call the police. I would keep my mouth shut about the movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristinannie Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 The kid shouldn't have hit your son. Your son shouldn't have broken his stick. They were just boys being boys, IMO, but that still doesn't mean it's okay and no adult needed to intervene. Clearly, an adult should have stepped in and stopped it. I totally disagree with this. Yes, your son probably shouldn't have broken his stick, but he might have been trying to keep others safe. There is NO excuse for anyone to strike your son. That kid should have been sent home immediately. That is why there are parents there. I think you should have been notified if your child was going to watch PG-13 movies. My son was shown Transformers at karate camp and he is 5! Don't you just love socialization? I can think of 100 reasons why I hate socialization which is what makes me so annoyed when people bring it up all the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imhim Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I really think you are doing everything you can so this will not happen again. With that boy, and with your own boy - meaning, he will have confidence next time he meets a bully. I really do not believe you should keep your mouth shut about the movies - it will only get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 You beleive adults who watch a beating happen and do not intervene effectively to stop a beating when they are supervising youth should be trusted with the health and safey of other people's children? Interesting point of view. Maybe I have not been clear. The visiting father DID intervene and stop it. He wasn't right next to them, but he yelled for the kid to stop and the kid did immediately stop. I must not have explained this properly, because I noticed that a lot of people think he didn't stop it. What I was unhappy about regarding this dad was that he really downplayed it when "reporting" it to leadership, saying the boys "handled it well" (meaning my son did not flip out) and all was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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