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Does Anyone NOT Like SOTW


Thia
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I've been reading reviews and came across some negative ones saying there are inaccuracies with the set. That does concern me. So I thought I would ask if there are people who do not like this series and why. Also, what do you use instead?

Thank you.

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I like it, but my daughter didn't. She didn't seem to be retaining much from it, even using the activity guide (there are a few things she still remembers, but most of the time when I ask her about something that was covered even two days before she gives me the :001_huh: look). We finally dropped it about 1/4 of the way through SOTW2 because I pulled the book off the shelf and her face fell. I asked her what was wrong and her answer was "It has too many battles. I don't like all the fighting." So for this upcoming year, I'm going to focus on US history, with less focus on the wars and more on daily life and childhood. We may also add more geography.

 

My plan for US history is to use The Complete Book of United States History as a spine and add other novels (including the American Girls) to flesh it out. For world history, I'm toying with using A Child's History of the World, Our Island Story (skipping the fighting chapters and just mentioning them conversationally) for British history and Our Sunburnt Country for Australian history. I haven't found any books I'm truly excited about using for other countries, especially for elemetary aged students.

Edited by Aurelia
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You realize you're asking us on the Well Trained Mind Board, right? Be prepared, if not ;) I love the series... my son has listened to all except for Vol.4 which is because of his age. (just turned 8) My older kids have listened; he likes them. My husband sometimes wishes she's tell MORE:) but the story telling style of the cds is so pleasurable. Some of history, you could disagree about... and I'm sure there would be things in there, but I haven't heard of anything that concerns me.

Actually, we're using the whole series in our co-op :)

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:bigear:

 

I read that review as well. I also read a similar review about SOTW in a MOH review (that MOH is less inaccurate than SOTW)... does that mean it's a little inaccurate?

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I use SOTW 1 and will be using 2 with my second grade boys. So far I have not noticed any major issues with history in it, but then, I have to rely on what I know about history. So far if I find something that I'd like to elaborate on, I will do so, or find a book to flesh it out for the boys.

What I don't like: not enough stories about people. There are some, and probably more than in many elementary texts, but it is true that SOTW is more of a spine than a full history text. Given that SWB has lists of other books in the Activity Book I think she considered it a given that a person would use the book as a guide, not as a stand alone text.

 

If I was more confident in my history, I might just go it alone with a variety of sources and books, but I actually like having the book to remind me of what we need to discuss over the year. Then I can prepare to find those other materials at the libary.

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A lot of the people that don't like SOTW, think that it doesn't have a "biblical worldview" and prefer Truthquest or MOH and use that reasoning to say it has inaccuracies. Then there are secularists that think it has too much of a biblical worldview. SWB can't win for losing :)

Basically you just just have to try it out for yourself and see what you think. That's another one of the joys of homeschooling. You can try it and then sell it here (easily by the way :) if it doesn't work!

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I tried it when the kids were really young, around 6 I think. I did not like the mythical greek god stuff in Vol.1 As we were trying to teach our views (christianity, serving one true God, they got confused with greek gods.) I do like the way the books are very informative and interesting. It might be something we re-visit in a few years when I feel like the kids can differentiate the information.

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I tried it when the kids were really young, around 6 I think. I did not like the mythical greek god stuff in Vol.1 As we were trying to teach our views (christianity, serving one true God, they got confused with greek gods.) I do like the way the books are very informative and interesting. It might be something we re-visit in a few years when I feel like the kids can differentiate the information.

 

I actually have a copy of SOTW2, and I pulled it out after reading this thread. I was flipping through and came to the two chapters about the Muslim religion and Muhammad. I am a Christian, and I did not like the way SWB wrote these chapters. Out of curiosity, I compared it to A Beka's text, and preferred the way they wrote about it. I also compared it to CHOW, and much preferred CHOW.

 

Just my opinion. I know other's do not share the same POV.

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I wanted to like it. I didn't sell it yet, ha, but we did try SOTW 1 at the beginning of the year and I had a hard time keeping up with it. I don't know exactly what it is that made me not like it much- maybe the way it's set up? Or how the activities at the end are presented? Maybe just the general way material is presented? Sigh. I know it's wonderful for others though! I'm just an oddball. Lol. Maybe we will try it again at some point.

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I liked the first two volumes. We abandoned it halfway through the third volume because it jumped around too much for my taste. It seemed to be sacrificing coherence in order to maintain a chronological presentation. We switched to K12's History 4 and the focus on themes in history (while staying true to chronology) really worked for us.

 

If I had to do it over again, I'd use K12 instead of SOTW.

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I really wanted to like SOTW, but my kids didn't like it at all. I thought it was way too bogged down in lots of detail that prevented them from getting the bigger picture. They also wanted nothing to do with the activity guide. They didn't care what river went where and what the name of it was. One of the biggest homeschool meltdowns we ever had was over a history pocket.

 

Maybe if I got it on audio CD they would like it better? I don't know, but me just reading it to them was a no go.

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I originally dismissed it out of hand because of all the negative reviews I read.

 

I came back to it eventually & we did end up using SOTW 1 - 3 (modified 2 & 3 to be a little more balanced in some of the reformation sections). I didn't always agree with how SWB wrote certain chapters/sections, but overall, IMO - the book/AG combo is awesome for the age group intended.

 

I am looking at History Odyssey for my oldest when we restart w/Ancients in fall 2012.

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I agree with the "spine" theory. We have used SOTW as a jumping off point. We skip some sections and spend more time on others, but the CD's are gems. My boys listen to them over and over.

Thanks to SWB's references in the Activity book, we have been able to find other books about the subject we are interested in and as a result, we may not pick up the SOTW book for weeks until we have exhausted whatever we are studying. When we are ready to move on, SOTW moves us along on the time line and we start again.

I think if I were to use SOTW exclusively, my boys would mutiny (they HATE the coloring) but I love having a guide.

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I liked the first two volumes. We abandoned it halfway through the third volume because it jumped around too much for my taste. It seemed to be sacrificing coherence in order to maintain a chronological presentation. We switched to K12's History 4 and the focus on themes in history (while staying true to chronology) really worked for us.

 

If I had to do it over again, I'd use K12 instead of SOTW.

 

:iagree: I felt like the "story" got lost. Off to check out your suggestions...

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I read a lot of reviews about SOTW on Amazon. There are reviews from people who say there are inaccuracies in the facts, not just different opinions about her writing style or how a religious concept is presented or whether or not it is Christian. Those critical reviews also made me concerned about SOTW, though I have not used it personally. I don't know history well enough to be able to read SOTW and judge for myself.

 

Both my kids and I love CHOW (Hillyer) for world history.

 

This year we are also going to delve into Builders of the Old World (Gertrude Hartman) and A Little History of the World (Gombrich) as world history spines.

 

I also bought a used 1992 edition of the Kingfisher Illustrated History of the World (which many people consider a better reference than the updated Kingfisher history altas). In addition (for my own reference) I bought a used copy of the Atlas of World History (John Haywood) which got tremendous reviews on Amazon.

 

I have heard a lot of great and positive things about Truth Quest history, but I haven't used it myself.

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We like the audios and we will read the books with SL. However, I cannot base my history study off of SOTW because of its lack of biblical content. I know I can add, tweak, etc., but I am SO DONE with that! I did that with ds and I have found over the past decade that there are so many choices that it is easier to find something I like and just use it. I am trying to choose for my littles now and stick through K-12. That may sound crazy to some, but I used to be a curriculum hopper/junkie. We lived overseas for many of ds's hsing years, and I also hs'ed other kids while we were there. I bought and sold so much stuff because there were no curriuclum sales, expos, or conventions. That's not to say that I won't drop or add a book to a SL core, or supplement in other areas if I think it is needed. However SOTW should be able to be used as is, and I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

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I like it but the girls tend to zone out when I am reading and the CDs actually are worse for that with them. I read through, discuss, do some of the AG stuff, and then pull in TOG or HO to supplement. I do so much other stuff that they eventually get the info one way or another. If I had a year to do nothing I would organize "the best of" from TOG, HO, CHOW, and SOTW and put it all in a binder!

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I haven't used it, but, after checking the samples online, I do like the look if it. I've been a middle school social studies teacher for years, and I did find an inaccuracy or two. I know that the sample on Roman history mentioned that chariot races were held in the Coliseum. I believe that to be inaccurate because those races were almost always held at a Roman circus, or round track much like where our track and field events are held today. However, I don't think that sort of inaccuracy matters much. I think I will have to get a book and decide for myself.

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We've used it for two years now. Initially, I loved it. Now, I've become disenchanted with it.

 

I've seen a lot of different critiques of it at this point. Some people feel it's not Christian enough. Other people think it's too Christian.

 

After the first volume, I felt like it jumped between different storytelling styles too quickly for my kids to understand what was historical fact and what was historical story (myths, legends about historical figures, and "imagine you were there" history).

 

We got most of the way through the second volume before I decided... I just don't agree with her perspective on history. It's not a Christian/secular thing - but SOTW really focuses strongly on the "great man" approach to history with a lack of focus on any social history at all. I blogged about this a little bit a little while ago here. For us, I realized that it was working at odds to creating a real sense of the change and movement of time. Topics that I considered really essential (the growth of towns, for example) we were turning to other books, like A Little History of the World and Builders of the Old World.

 

It's a good book. There are many wonderful things about it. We're taking a break to do US history any way, but I fully expect we'll return and make use of the 3rd and 4th volumes in some way. But they won't be our spine.

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This is from Robin, who wrote a review on CBD: "I agree it is a nice idea, but in Chapter 7, they take a lot of unbiblical liberty with the stories. They say that Abraham's father died, then God called him to leave. In the Bible, his father lived several years after Abraham left him. Also they include Benjamin as one of the brothers that made fun of Joseph before he was sold into slavery. These things are just plainly not the case in the Bible..."

 

I guess I just went into a bit of a panic earlier because I thought I was all set to start buying stuff and all of a sudden I had to go back to research.

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I have never had a hard copy of SOTW in hand, but I did look at several chapters online, and I was not particularly impressed. The main problematic issue for me was that there seemed to be little differentiation between the historically-accurate parts of the book and the mythology/folklore/religious stories. I understand that the idea is to present history as a story that young children can understand, but I am looking for a history book that presents facts, or at least our best guess at the facts. There are at least a couple people included in SOTW 1, apparently as historic personages, for whom there is little historical evidence that they ever actually lived.

 

I have yet to find an alternative text I like. I also looked at CHOW and didn't think much of it either. It has been a long time since I looked at CHOW, so I don't remember my exact reservations, but I suspect they were similar to the ones I have about SOTW.

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We've used 1 and 2, and I think it's okay. I haven't found anything better, but I definitely don't love it. I feel the same about the AG. We don't really enjoy lots of coloring and wish that wasn't such a big part of the AG. I appreciate the list of sources, but I'm paying for that, right?

 

We own the CDs and I really dislike the way that they are read. We try using them when we can take his monotone voice, but really wish they were a little more lively.

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After the first volume, I felt like it jumped between different storytelling styles too quickly for my kids to understand what was historical fact and what was historical story (myths, legends about historical figures, and "imagine you were there" history).

 

This was my issue with the first volume. It gets worse?

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Gosh, I feel like it's not right to rake such a good set of history volumes. Free Speech and such, but.... I just wanna give a shout out and say ... again... that I love how much my kids love this history!! Lots to choose from... and the best elementary history that I've seen. And, Jim Weiss, although he's not able to "story tell" like on some of his other cds... is someone we can all pleasantly listen to... from the littles to the olders. :)

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The jumping around doesn't bother me as much because I will have other books, like Usborne or Kingfisher to cross reference with. I am off to read some reviews on other supplements. I just want to make sure that what we do get is accurate.

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My children liked it, but I was so-so.

 

At first, I loved the idea of telling history as a story. I thought it was original (I was new to homeschooling at the time). Then, I discovered Children's History of the World (CHOW). I then discovered Mystery of History.

 

I was very enchanted by SOTW, but I did not need to do it twice. That made me disillusioned.

 

The Activities Guides are wonderful. They do enhance the history lessons.

 

I want to share what other moms from other forums not Well Trained Mind. One mom said that she felt the writing talks down to the child. For example, let's pretend to be on a magic carpet and fly over here... As opposed to Children's History of the World, it is as if the child is being challenged to think at a higher level. In my opinion, it does not matter as long as it is well written and captivates the child's attention. Both of these history books are well written.

 

Another mom told me that she did not feel that it had a Christian World view. SOTW tells some Christian history, but not the same way as the Bible. There is also some Muslim history and Jewish history too. I think that it was wise of the author to put the history of the three major religions of the world. So, you teach your child your views.

 

Another mom told me that SOTW is not accurate. I hate to say this, but no history book is totally accurate. SOTW is written from a certain point of view. If you have problems with her views, check out her bibliography in the back of the book. It will tell you where her sources are from. I have a book called, "The 100 most influential people in History." Some of his assessments, I do not agree with at all, but they are based upon certain criteria in his opinion. History is always told from different angles.

 

Finally, I wanted to share that SOTW Volume 4 has been recognized as one of the best modern history children's book out there. There are a lot of history books out there, but SOTW Volume 4 gives a very good accounting of modern history for a young child. It is one of the best. So, for that alone, I would at least purchase that one. In the entire series, Volume 4 is written outstanding. It is accurate. It does not talk down to the child. It is solid for 4th grade and up.

 

Just my experience and thoughts.

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

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This was my issue with the first volume. It gets worse?

 

Actually, I think that (the sense of jumping between storytelling styles) gets better, in part because there's less mythology included. It's still there, but it definitely doesn't get worse.

 

But when put together with the other issues I began to see with it, I realized it wasn't the book for us.

 

I think one of the things I realized was that I just don't personally expect my kids to retain historical details for the long term. I would much rather they understand the flow of history and be able to recognize how things have changed over time. SOTW began to feel like it was focused on covering a checklist of people and events at the expense of telling that story and emphasizing those changes. Other books I've now seen do it much better.

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SOTW began to feel like it was focused on covering a checklist of people and events at the expense of telling that story and emphasizing those changes. Other books I've now seen do it much better.

 

Other books for the younger set do it better? Could you tell me which ones--the others in your previous post? Do you think those are preferable instead if, like you, I don't expect my kids to remember details from this age?

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I'm using SOTW 1 for DD 8, and I really like it, she doesn't like all the reading, but oh well she can just deal. I wouldn't use it for my DS 10, it's to simple plus there is to much religious material. He's very resistant to anything religious, she's more accepting. We are very secular, SOTW being the only "Christian" resource we use. We use Human Odyssey Vol 1 with him. He really likes it as long as I do at least 1/2 the reading out loud for him (dyslexic, eye strain issues).

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We got most of the way through the second volume before I decided... I just don't agree with her perspective on history. It's not a Christian/secular thing - but SOTW really focuses strongly on the "great man" approach to history with a lack of focus on any social history at all. I blogged about this a little bit a little while ago here. For us, I realized that it was working at odds to creating a real sense of the change and movement of time. Topics that I considered really essential (the growth of towns, for example) we were turning to other books, like A Little History of the World and Builders of the Old World.

 

 

This is an interesting point, and resonates with me as a history major and someone who works in social history for a museum. However, for the grammar stage, I'm really focusing on "cultural literacy" with history and I want my kids to know or at least have heard of the great men first, which is why SOTW works for us. Once we hit logic stage I plan to go into much more detail on the social history as well. Plus, social history can be very hard to document, and the logic stage would be a perfect time to talk about traditional and non-traditional sources, dating, validity, historiography, etc.

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Other books for the younger set do it better? Could you tell me which ones--the others in your previous post? Do you think those are preferable instead if, like you, I don't expect my kids to remember details from this age?

 

Yep. If I could go back in time, I would use Builders of the Old World as our spine for the last two years (it covers the ancients through the Renaissance). I would absolutely still buy SOTW and read parts of it to the kids, but I wish I'd used that instead as my base. It isn't perfect either - it's way more Eurocentric than SOTW so I would have ended up supplementing that too. But it reflects my basic outlook on history better and I like it stylistically a lot.

 

I don't think SOTW is bad at all... just not the right program for me.

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I think one of the things I realized was that I just don't personally expect my kids to retain historical details for the long term. I would much rather they understand the flow of history and be able to recognize how things have changed over time. SOTW began to feel like it was focused on covering a checklist of people and events at the expense of telling that story and emphasizing those changes. Other books I've now seen do it much better.

 

I came to the same conclusion as I was mulling and debating history choices for this coming year. The bottom line is that my kid is a brand new 6 year old and a first grader - I want her to be interested in history in general but I don't expect anything else from her at this point. I read the post you linked up thread and I am also using Gobrich's Little History of the World and just adding in library books as we move through an overview of world history this year.

 

It is much more important to me that she understand how humans have shaped our world over the last few thousand years and yet how so many things about human life are still the same as they were then. People generally want the same things even if the physical trappings and comforts, countries, leaders, and religions are different.

 

Thanks for putting into words what I have personally struggled with as I've looked at every history resource out there for young kids and found them all to be not quite what I am looking for.

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This is an interesting point, and resonates with me as a history major and someone who works in social history for a museum. However, for the grammar stage, I'm really focusing on "cultural literacy" with history and I want my kids to know or at least have heard of the great men first, which is why SOTW works for us. Once we hit logic stage I plan to go into much more detail on the social history as well. Plus, social history can be very hard to document, and the logic stage would be a perfect time to talk about traditional and non-traditional sources, dating, validity, historiography, etc.

 

Yes, I think that's the counterpoint - especially from a purely classical standpoint. Essentially, covering historical change and things like social history, which is much more subjective for all sorts of reasons, would be a much more Logic stage sort of thing, while memorizing names, places, etc. and getting a first introduction to stories would be more of a Grammar stage thing. I just personally can't accept that line fully, which is what makes me classically influenced and not a true classical homeschooler. :001_smile:

 

It is much more important to me that she understand how humans have shaped our world over the last few thousand years and yet how so many things about human life are still the same as they were then. People generally want the same things even if the physical trappings and comforts, countries, leaders, and religions are different.

 

Thanks for putting into words what I have personally struggled with as I've looked at every history resource out there for young kids and found them all to be not quite what I am looking for.

 

Thanks. I like how you phrased that as well. Some things are, indeed, so different while others are so much the same.

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I just want to make sure that what we do get is accurate.

 

That's the problem with (and the beauty of!) history. Very often, accuracy is in the eye of the beholder.

 

One of the most important lessons I think history teaches is there is more than one side to any story and each one can be true. That and how unlikely it is we can know the whole truth about anything. We can get "more accurate" and "less accurate" but we don't get definitive truth and that doesn't necessarily mean anyone is lying.

 

Rosie

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That's the problem with (and the beauty of!) history. Very often, accuracy is in the eye of the beholder.

 

One of the most important lessons I think history teaches is there is more than one side to any story and each one can be true. That and how unlikely it is we can know the whole truth about anything. We can get "more accurate" and "less accurate" but we don't get definitive truth and that doesn't necessarily mean anyone is lying.

 

Rosie

:iagree::iagree:

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We have really love SOTW 1 & 2 but I am not liking 3 as much, it does seem to jump around all over the place. A lot of the issues other people have had with it have not bothered me either because I am can slightly change the wording as I read it out loud or supplement with other things to fill out the social history side of it.

 

I would like to get CHOW but can't find it anywhere at an affordable price.

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When I first started using SOTW, it bugged me a bit that the Bible characters were presented as factual, so I put it away for a while and looked around for something better. However, I never found anything I liked better.

 

Ds absolutely loved the books (all four of them), and he learned a great deal from them. He would bring up things he learned from them out of the blue at times yet on topic. He was actually disappointed when we finished reading them.

 

I was able to get around the parts that bugged me by stopping and discussing the different perspectives, which turned into some really good conversations. We read the first three books together, so that was easy to do. By the fourth book, we didn't sit and read all of it side by side together, but we did discuss each chapter after we had both read it.

 

As for inaccuracies, if you can find a perfect history book for me, I'll pay double for it. As Rosie pointed out, there are different perspectives in history, so you'll find different viewpoints in different history books. I also agree with farrarwilliams that some of the complaints are asking too much for books that were written for the grammar stage; those issues are more for the logic stage.

 

Recently ds asked me if SWB had written any history books for older kids. I guess that says something for the books.

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I tried it when the kids were really young, around 6 I think. I did not like the mythical greek god stuff in Vol.1 As we were trying to teach our views (christianity, serving one true God, they got confused with greek gods.) I do like the way the books are very informative and interesting. It might be something we re-visit in a few years when I feel like the kids can differentiate the information.

 

I actually have a copy of SOTW2, and I pulled it out after reading this thread. I was flipping through and came to the two chapters about the Muslim religion and Muhammad. I am a Christian, and I did not like the way SWB wrote these chapters. Out of curiosity, I compared it to A Beka's text, and preferred the way they wrote about it. I also compared it to CHOW, and much preferred CHOW.

 

Just my opinion. I know other's do not share the same POV.

 

You guys do realize that this is a *history* book, not a bible curriculum, right? The Greek god stuff is in there because that culture actually existed and is *historical*. Ditto with Islam and Muhammad. Are Christians supposed to pretend like there is no history other than Christian history? :confused: This POV confuses me.

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I tried it when the kids were really young, around 6 I think. I did not like the mythical greek god stuff in Vol.1 As we were trying to teach our views (christianity, serving one true God, they got confused with greek gods

 

What is confusing about this? You just stop and say "These gods are not real. The ancient Greeks believed in these gods."

 

I don't understand how you could study ancient History and totally omit their religion. So what do you teach your kids? That human civilizations just sat around believing nothing about the unseen world until exposed to Judaism/Christianity?

 

Even Biblical - why did Pharaoh thumb his nose at God? Just because he was arrogant? No, he believed HE was a God, and the whole Pharaoh-worship aspect of Egyptian culture is integral to understanding that story.

 

I'm also not sure how anyone can be truly educated without being familiar with these myths and how they remain in our language and culture to this day - the names of the planets, constellations, days of the week and months, references in literature, etc.

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The other half of the year, we use the Core Knowledge American History topics. That was another issue that I had with SOTW. I really wanted to devote more time to American History!

 

:iagree:

I also teach world history for the first half of the year (accelerating the program) and American history for the second half of the year. One problem I have with a lot of the history programs is there is not enough time spent on American history. I put at least as much effort into teaching them American history as world history every year.

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You guys do realize that this is a *history* book, not a bible curriculum, right? The Greek god stuff is in there because that culture actually existed and is *historical*. Ditto with Islam and Muhammad. Are Christians supposed to pretend like there is no history other than Christian history? :confused: This POV confuses me.

 

:iagree:

 

...and I am an evangelical Christian. How are we supposed to love our neighbors if we don't bother to attain anything like a basic sense of their cultural history? If nothing else, this is basic empathy building material.

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I'm really surprised at how many parents have an issue with teaching their kids about other gods. I consider myself a Christian and didn't grow up with any particular belief system. I loved reading myths and about other culture's gods. Not once did I believe they were real and I was a real literal child.

 

Neither have my literal minded Aspies ever been confused on the issue. I think they think they are like comic book characters. (And some of them were turned into that)

 

I don't need my history text to teach Bible. So STOW was/is a good fit for us. Same thing with Science. I want them to be presented with different viewpoints. It makes my faith stronger to consider other viewpoints.

 

But then I differ in a lot of education areas with other conservative Christians apparently so I probably shouldn't be surprised.

Edited by pdalley
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That's the problem with (and the beauty of!) history. Very often, accuracy is in the eye of the beholder.

 

One of the most important lessons I think history teaches is there is more than one side to any story and each one can be true. That and how unlikely it is we can know the whole truth about anything. We can get "more accurate" and "less accurate" but we don't get definitive truth and that doesn't necessarily mean anyone is lying.

 

Rosie

 

I agree with Rosie! We love SOTW, but we only use the audio cds in the car, and my daughter has learned so much because of them. We have them playing a lot (her request). But we also do a lot of other history - lots of other books, different cds, movies, etc. There are differences in everything we read/see/do - depending on the viewpoint and who it's written for. Doesn't bother me. We just talk about why/how history can be different for different people.

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K12 is not the cheapest history option out there, but we love using the online lessons as our "spine," supplementing with other books and videos, and doing a few history-related activities. And given how much praise the K12 middle school history text gets, I'll probably just continue to use K12 the whole way through, devoting half the academic year to K12 history (we accelerate their lessons).

 

Can you tell me more about K12? Can you sign up for just one subject? How much would it be for a year of primary history, for example?

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