Airport security with girls

[fj62]

Considering taking family to Boston, but I can't imagine how I or dh would handle it if either of dds(14 and 6) were patted down. Is it true that you can opt for body scan over pat down? Has anyone gone thru a major city lately who could reassure me?

[Katiebug_1976]

Dd 15 just flew from Wichita, KS to Denver, CO & on to Seattle, WA last month and had no problems at all.

[Dmmetler]

I haven't gone through Boston, but in both Atlanta and Orlando, we've been directed to the metal detector lane over the Full Body Scan lane-presumably because we're traveling with a 6 yr old.

[cin]

We just flew from Cinti to Orlando and back. My daughter's backpack tested postive for explosive residue. :001_huh:

 

As a result, *I* was patted down. It was done by a female TSA officer, and was very professional. I did not feel violated at all and, in fact, if she had asked to pat dd (6yr) down, I would have had no problem with it.

 

Of course, I had a cystoscopy the day before with a Urology student in the room. And the nurse, so maybe I was feeling a little 'wild' at the time :D.

 

To pat down my sensitive areas, she used the back part of her hand, so there was no way she could have groped me, if she wanted too.

 

HTH

 

ETA: We still don't know what triggered the explosive residue in the backpack. colored pencils? old reading books? DWN curriculum?

[Shannon in TN]

I haven't gone through Boston, but in both Atlanta and Orlando, we've been directed to the metal detector lane over the Full Body Scan lane-presumably because we're traveling with a 6 yr old.

 

I'm hoping to fly out to CO with the kids later in the fall and I dread the thought of any of us having either the pat-down or the body scan. It just seems so invasive of my/their personal space.

[Starr]

My dd was patted down in Northern Ireland a few years ago. It happened so quickly I didn't register they had done it. This sounds a little more intrusive. Mostly people are picked by random unless something, like explosive curriculum, sets the machine off.

[Barb_]

Yeah, I'm totally stressing it too. One of my daughters will fly back with my husband and the cats and from what I've read, Chicago (ORD) has completely done away with the metal detectors. They won't allow you to go to through the scan line with the animal, so I'm guessing a grope is in someone's future. :glare: Right now I'm just dealing with it using good old fashioned denial.

[Barb_]

Mostly people are picked by random unless something, like explosive curriculum, sets the machine off.

 

:lol::lol: I saw what you did there.

[WVNA]

I think the TSA has crossed the line with these procedures and they really should have their lawyers read the 4th amendment to the Constitution. For example, the latest abuse was the pat down of an 8 month old baby(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42978267/ns/travel-news/). I'm just shocked that people feel it's ok for the government to touch anybody in that way.

[kchara]

My dad, stepmom, and 8 year old sister flew from Michigan to California a couple of months ago. My dad set off the residue check (he had just pumped gas back into the rental, and apparently had residue on his hands). He was taken and patted down, and his luggage was inspected. Understandable.

 

In the meantime, my sister (who was already slightly freaked out because Daddy was taken away by people in uniforms) was taken from her mom and put into a plexiglass cubical where she was patted down thoroughly, as well. They said she was the random check. She was terrified, and my stepmom was moved out of sight of her. The cubicle was see through, but for some reason, they hurried my stepmom on, and wouldn't let her watch my sister. To me, that's completely unacceptable. She's only 8.

 

DH and I have decided that we won't take the kids flying at all, unless this madness ends. I think it's very dangerous to tell our kids that no one can touch you in your bathing suit area or whatever terms you use... UNLESS that person works for the government and is wearing a uniform.

[Murmer]

Just so you are aware even if you do the scanner if the picture isn't clear, there are pleats or the person checking is an idiot you could still have to endure a pat down and it will be a resolution pat down which could be worse. I refuse to fly with my children since this policy was enacted.

[RanchGirl]

Considering taking family to Boston, but I can't imagine how I or dh would handle it if either of dds(14 and 6) were patted down. Is it true that you can opt for body scan over pat down? Has anyone gone thru a major city lately who could reassure me?

 

If they are using the backspatter machine, they typically will start with the body scan and if you opt out of that, you get the 'enhanced pat down'. Unless they see something on the scan or have some other reason to go right to the pat down as with the previous poster. It's going to vary by airport. I was very nervous flying over spring break. I am not willing to have either the bodyscan (IMO it has not been proven safe) or the invasive pat down for myself or my children, and I would miss a flight if necessary. We lucked out in both directions on our trip, although the people right before and after me on the way home was not so lucky.

[Barb_]

Fwiw, I'm having her wear a loose dress over a one piece swimsuit. Avoids the waistband issue (some can be overzealous in that area I hear) and holds everything together better than just underwear. Hopefully I am worrying for nothing, but I believe in planning ahead when possible.

[workingmom]

We fly a lot and recently the airport had a body scanner and pat down. I was travelling with my husband and 3 kids and we had already decided that if asked we'd only do the body scan. But the officer had me and the kids go through the regular metal detector and my husband go through the body scanner. I'm hoping that airports follow this trend and fine if you set off the metal detector then go through the body scan but definitely no pat downs for me or kids.

[Susan C.]

Its been almost seven years, but when my dad died, we had to get tickets last minute. We were traveling with our kids, aged 10 and 14. Amazing, take a family with kids, search everything. They did try to take dd10 away from us, but I screamed that they could in no terms take her out of my sight..... they didn't.

[Lawana]

We have flown numerous times since dd has had an insulin pump that always sets off the metal detector. She has been "patted down" each time we have flown. This in *not* the enhanced pat down, just the regular one. So far, they have not done anything that has alerted my "mommy" radar. Sometimes they have taken dd to be patted down without alerting me, but it has never occured in an area beyond eyesight. We had one very good experience where the agent came and got me and explained what she was about to do before she did it. Even at the worst, there was nothing done to dd that she was not comfortable with. I understand this varies significantly among individuals. We would not be okay with any male, ever, or female agent that touched her inappropriately.

 

That said, I am extremely leary of the latest procedures. We have not flown since they were implemented. I will not agree to a full body scan for any of us. The technology has not, IMO, been proven safe.

 

We do plan to fly again this summer, but are willing, if need be, to miss a flight if we felt we were being violated.

[KidsHappen]

My hubby flies twice a week every week. Both of the airports that he uses have done away with the metal detectors. Your only options are the body scan or pat down. My hubby always chooses the pat down. The TSA people know him better than our dr. does. He says that they are always very professional and don't appear to be anymore comfortable with it than he is. He talks to them a lot since he sees them every week and they have told him that almost everyone opts for the body scan. They only do the pat down to people who opt for it or the ones that set off the body scan machine but that doesn't necessarily apply to all airports, just the ones he uses.

 

I have seen news reports to the effect that once you have been choosen for the body pat down, you do not have the option to opt out (even by choosing not to fly). So if they chose to you for pat down, there would be no way out. :001_huh: My dds and I will not be flying until this non-sense is over and I can wait a very long time. I haven't flown in almost 15 years and I have one child who has never flown at all. Even my frequent travelers have stopped flying since the machines and pat downs came into regular use. If we can't drive there, we don't go. I am not willing to take the chance.

Edited May 11, 2011 by KidsHappen

[Aggie]

We flew out of Dallas and Dulles recently. No pat downs and no scanners. Just taking shoes off and shoving all our stuff through the metal detectors in both airports. Both places asked each of my dc how old they were.

 

FWIW, I have a friend who flew a few months ago. She got on the plane and realized she was packing. (In her rush to get to the airport, she had forgotten to change purses.) The gun got through security. Isn't that special?

Edited May 11, 2011 by Aggie

[aggieamy]

We just flew from Cinti to Orlando and back. My daughter's backpack tested postive for explosive residue. :001_huh:

 

As a result, *I* was patted down. It was done by a female TSA officer, and was very professional. I did not feel violated at all and, in fact, if she had asked to pat dd (6yr) down, I would have had no problem with it.

 

Of course, I had a cystoscopy the day before with a Urology student in the room. And the nurse, so maybe I was feeling a little 'wild' at the time :D.

 

To pat down my sensitive areas, she used the back part of her hand, so there was no way she could have groped me, if she wanted too.

 

HTH

 

ETA: We still don't know what triggered the explosive residue in the backpack. colored pencils? old reading books? DWN curriculum?

 

This has been my experience as well with the pat downs. It's pretty hard to feel violated by the middle aged gal in the polyester uniform that seems to counting down the minutes until she's off work. She's not getting any enjoyment out of the pat down. It's quick and a necessary evil of flying. I see it as you don't have to fly. It's convenient but it isn't a constitutional right to get on an airplane.

[Abigail4476]

Considering taking family to Boston, but I can't imagine how I or dh would handle it if either of dds(14 and 6) were patted down. Is it true that you can opt for body scan over pat down? Has anyone gone thru a major city lately who could reassure me?

 

My husband and daughter recently flew to Florida. They both had body scans and thought it was no big deal. You'll only get a pat-down if you refuse the scanner. (Or, I assume, unless something suspicious shows up on the scan.)

[cindergretta]

Could someone please clear this up for me? I have been told that "once you are in line, opting out, even to the point of missing your flight, is not a choice. You get scanned/enhanced pat down *if chosen* or get arrested." Is that true?

 

Flying is not a constitutional right. It is a convenience. Going to concerts, baseball games, and the mall aren't constitutionally guaranteed either. Are we all willing to submit to invasion of our personal space to enjoy those "conveniences" or "freedoms?"

 

Enhanced pat downs and high tech screenings aren't keeping us safe. It is utter lunacy to believe that it is. And if we are willing to give up our *constitutional right* to freedom of movement, what next?

 

I think it is a sad day indeed when not only do we allow the government to invade our space, we defend it. :( We really are on the road to total loss of freedoms. <sigh>

[SonshineLearner]

I wouldn't want a body scan of my child... or me. My dad flies all the time and asks to be patted down, versus having anything that is like an x-ray due to the fact that he doesn't want cumulative "rays"....

[Sugarfoot]

Whether or not children go through the scanners really does just depend on the airport. We fly A LOT, and we've seen it both ways. Usually, we're directed to the old metal detectors, but recently we've been in airports that don't even have them anymore, just the new machines. I haven't done that with my little kids yet, so I have no idea how that's going to work, but my DH and I were coming home from our anniversary trip in March through Miami, and the terminal that we were in only had the new machines. Everyone had to go through them or choose a pat-down. There was a little boy about 6 in line in front of me. He did fine. I didn't see anyone with younger children to see how they handled them. I looked, because this is bound to become an issue for us.:glare: There was also someone swabbing every third person's hands. He did mine. Who knows what you could pick up in an airport.:001_huh: We tend to use hand sanitizer every 15-20 minutes. Hopefully there's no weird residue there!:lol:

[Punchie]

I've flown several times w/my girls since the new procedures were implemented. So far, I haven't had any issues. I honestly think it depends on the airport, the day, the individual TSA as to the type of experience going through security will be.

 

Just know that if you feel uncomfortable w/what the agent is doing, you can ask for their supervisor or a police officer. For children, they are supposed to do a modified pat down for the under 12 set (no clue what that is as they don't say). They are also not supposed to remove your child from your sight (which as you can see from a PP's response, they don't always follow their own rules).

 

Also, I would request that the agent put on a new/clean pair of gloves before they pat you down (if you don't notice them putting new gloves on).

 

Maybe if this security actually kept us safer, I would be less leery of it. But it does no good to scan/pat every passenger, and then essentially ignore all of the airport employees who work in the secured area. I think also, that I would have more faith in the body scanners if the previous guy in charge of DHS didn't have a stake in the company that makes them. I know flying isn't a constitutional right, but neither should your 4th Amendment rights be thrown out the door if you want to fly.

[Garga]

Could someone please clear this up for me? I have been told that "once you are in line, opting out, even to the point of missing your flight, is not a choice. You get scanned/enhanced pat down *if chosen* or get arrested." Is that true?

 

Flying is not a constitutional right. It is a convenience. Going to concerts, baseball games, and the mall aren't constitutionally guaranteed either. Are we all willing to submit to invasion of our personal space to enjoy those "conveniences" or "freedoms?"

 

Enhanced pat downs and high tech screenings aren't keeping us safe. It is utter lunacy to believe that it is. And if we are willing to give up our *constitutional right* to freedom of movement, what next?

 

I think it is a sad day indeed when not only do we allow the government to invade our space, we defend it. :( We really are on the road to total loss of freedoms. <sigh>

 

 

That's what I was thinking.

[KS_]

Whether or not children go through the scanners really does just depend on the airport. We fly A LOT, and we've seen it both ways. Usually, we're directed to the old metal detectors, but recently we've been in airports that don't even have them anymore, just the new machines.

 

We just flew out of San Diego a couple weeks ago and decided to just do the full body scanner since we rarely fly and the radiation exposure would be just this time. Dh went through the scanner, then the kids, then me. However, I didn't see how the kids were instructed when they went through (I was back trying to push all our carryon luggage through the machine since everyone left it for me :001_huh:). But afterwards, I was talking about having to hold still for the scan and the kids said they didn't have to, they were told just to walk through. Dh said they directed the kids around the scanner and he thinks through just a metal detector.

[LidiyaDawn]

I guess I'm in the minority here because none of this really bothers me… scanner, pat down, whatever. I don't understand why people toss around terms like "molesting" and "violating" as if these security agents are just laying in wait to prey on people or something.

 

I'd prefer to travel by train than to fly, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with security issues and everything to do with the fact that a train can't fall from 40,000 feet. :p

[gardening momma]

Could someone please clear this up for me? I have been told that "once you are in line, opting out, even to the point of missing your flight, is not a choice. You get scanned/enhanced pat down *if chosen* or get arrested." Is that true?

I think it's because once you enter the airport, if you have a bomb, gun, etc... you are a risk to everyone in the building, not just on the airplanes. So if you refuse a pat down, scan, etc, they have to consider if you'd do anything within airport property (if you do have a bomb, gun, etc).

[WVNA]

Could someone please clear this up for me? I have been told that "once you are in line, opting out, even to the point of missing your flight, is not a choice. You get scanned/enhanced pat down *if chosen* or get arrested." Is that true?

 

Flying is not a constitutional right. It is a convenience. Going to concerts, baseball games, and the mall aren't constitutionally guaranteed either. Are we all willing to submit to invasion of our personal space to enjoy those "conveniences" or "freedoms?"

 

Enhanced pat downs and high tech screenings aren't keeping us safe. It is utter lunacy to believe that it is. And if we are willing to give up our *constitutional right* to freedom of movement, what next?

 

I think it is a sad day indeed when not only do we allow the government to invade our space, we defend it. :( We really are on the road to total loss of freedoms. <sigh>

 

I agree with what you wrote, but want to point one thing out. You are right - flying is not a Constitutional right. However, the people doing the pat downs are US Government employees and the US Government is required to adhere to the 4th amendment.

 

I think that people forget that when somebody is willing to die for what they believe in, there is no amount of security that can prevent them from doing serious harm to others.

[Snickerdoodle]

FWIW, I have a friend who flew a few months ago. She got on the plane and realized she was packing. (In her rush to get to the airport, she had forgotten to change purses.) The gun got through security. Isn't that special?

 

Really?

[ScoutTN]

I think the TSA has crossed the line with these procedures and they really should have their lawyers read the 4th amendment to the Constitution. I'm just shocked that people feel it's ok for the government to touch anybody in that way.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

The frog in the kettle. Now this, what next?!

[Parrothead]

 

Enhanced pat downs and high tech screenings aren't keeping us safe. It is utter lunacy to believe that it is. And if we are willing to give up our *constitutional right* to freedom of movement, what next?

 

I think it is a sad day indeed when not only do we allow the government to invade our space, we defend it. :( We really are on the road to total loss of freedoms. <sigh>

:iagree:

I agree with what you wrote, but want to point one thing out. You are right - flying is not a Constitutional right. However, the people doing the pat downs are US Government employees and the US Government is required to adhere to the 4th amendment.

 

I think that people forget that when somebody is willing to die for what they believe in, there is no amount of security that can prevent them from doing serious harm to others.

Amen, sister.

 

IMO the terrorists have already won because of the irrational fear that now grips the nation. The airplane thing has already been done. They won't do it again with or without the current procedures. Next time will be a train or a shopping mall or a ball stadium.

 

Sadly it is politics as usual instead of the well-being of the citizens of the US.

[Karen in CO]

I think the fact that they have rules that exempt the under-13 group from pat-downs then they perform pat-down on kids under 13, even kids that have gone through the scanner is what bothers people. Then when people complain, the TSA gets supported in its actions. In the recent case of a 6yo girl getting patted down after having the full body scan, Homeland Security defending them saying that they had acted within the rules.

 

This doesn't make us safer.

[Julie in CA]

I don't understand why people toss around terms like "molesting" and "violating" as if these security agents are just laying in wait to prey on people or something.

 

I think it's because the actions themselves *are* the same as what some molesters would do, and in some cases, would be a prosecutable offense if committed by anyone else, in any other venue. It doesn't necessarily matter *who* it is that's feeling up my dd, or what their motives are, the base action is the same.

 

Just how far are we willing to go in the name of some elusive "security"?

Body cavity searches? Would that make us safer? We should probably do it then, right? :001_huh:

 

I'm just not sure that it's making us much safer, and I am very sure that it's an erosion of our expectations (and those of our dc) that we would have control over who we share our bodies with.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Julie in CA

[Aggie]

Really?

 

Yes. She had a gun in her purse, which is legal in Texas if you have a CCL, she meant to change purses and forgot, and it got through airport security.

 

She wanted to throw it down the airplane toilet because she was scared, but her dh told her not to. She flew to her destination with it in her purse.

[Punchie]

Really?

 

You would be surprised (or maybe not) at how frequently guns/knives DON'T get noticed while going through the x-ray. DH has a friend whose job it is to test this, and let's just say that there is a higher failure rate than is comfortable.

[i.love.lucy]

I haven't seen the research or opinions on the safety of the scanners, but I remember reading something about the images being quite "clear" and them being archived even if they aren't supposed to be. I remember being able to clearly see some guys anatomy in a news story.:001_huh:

 

I don't know what to do. I am planning a WDW trip in Sept with the whole family, and then maybe the kids and I fly to CA to see my mom in early Dec. That's 2 flights this year, but likely none next year at all, and none for the last 2 years. I don't know if that's an acceptable level of "rays" or if we should opt for the pat down. My dd is quite shy and would NOT want to be touched by a stranger. I think it would be quite traumatic for her. If you were me, would you opt for the scanners in that case? What is the lesser of the evils?:confused:

[Sugarfoot]

Whether or not children go through the scanners really does just depend on the airport. We fly A LOT, and we've seen it both ways. Usually, we're directed to the old metal detectors, but recently we've been in airports that don't even have them anymore, just the new machines. I haven't done that with my little kids yet, so I have no idea how that's going to work, but my DH and I were coming home from our anniversary trip in March through Miami, and the terminal that we were in only had the new machines. Everyone had to go through them or choose a pat-down. There was a little boy about 6 in line in front of me. He did fine. I didn't see anyone with younger children to see how they handled them. I looked, because this is bound to become an issue for us.:glare: There was also someone swabbing every third person's hands. He did mine. Who knows what you could pick up in an airport.:001_huh: We tend to use hand sanitizer every 15-20 minutes. Hopefully there's no weird residue there!:lol:

 

We just flew out of San Diego a couple weeks ago and decided to just do the full body scanner since we rarely fly and the radiation exposure would be just this time. Dh went through the scanner, then the kids, then me. However, I didn't see how the kids were instructed when they went through (I was back trying to push all our carryon luggage through the machine since everyone left it for me :001_huh:). But afterwards, I was talking about having to hold still for the scan and the kids said they didn't have to, they were told just to walk through. Dh said they directed the kids around the scanner and he thinks through just a metal detector.

 

This would be preferable. In Miami, though, there were only the new machines, and the all of the kids were instructed to stand just like the adults. :glare: There's no way my 3 and 4 year olds could do it. And I'm not really comfortable having them "pat down." What a ridiculous waste of resources that is...good grief.

[Harriet Vane]

I think it's because the actions themselves *are* the same as what some molesters would do, and in some cases, would be a prosecutable offense if committed by anyone else, in any other venue. It doesn't necessarily matter *who* it is that's feeling up my dd, or what their motives are, the base action is the same.

 

Just how far are we willing to go in the name of some elusive "security".

Body cavity searches? Would that make us safer? We should probably do it then, right? :001_huh:

 

I'm just not sure that it's making us much safer, and I am very sure that it's an erosion of our expectations (and those of our dc) that we would have control over who we share our bodies with.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[DianeW88]

We flew to and from Orlando in March. My dd and I opted to be patted down because the line for the metal detectors was a mile long and we didn't want to miss our flight. It was absolutely No. Big. Deal. Both patdowns done by a female TSA agent and not even close to what I would consider violating, molesting, groping, etc. Many others opted for it as well, including small children, and there wasn't one problem. No children crying, carted away from parents or being fondled inappropriately. Nothing. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. It really was much faster.

[kchara]

:iagree:

 

Amen, sister.

 

IMO the terrorists have already won because of the irrational fear that now grips the nation. The airplane thing has already been done. They won't do it again with or without the current procedures. Next time will be a train or a shopping mall or a ball stadium.

 

Sadly it is politics as usual instead of the well-being of the citizens of the US.

 

:iagree: Wholeheartedly. Especially with the bolded part (I bolded, btw).

[Barb_]

This has been my experience as well with the pat downs. It's pretty hard to feel violated by the middle aged gal in the polyester uniform that seems to counting down the minutes until she's off work. She's not getting any enjoyment out of the pat down. It's quick and a necessary evil of flying. I see it as you don't have to fly. It's convenient but it isn't a constitutional right to get on an airplane.

 

Yeah, but how will you feel about it on Trains? Boats? City Metros? Government buildings? High schools? Napalitono is on record saying she would like to see these scanners and enhanced pat downs in a variety of situations. Pretty soon people will be saying, "Hey, it's not in the Constitution that you MUST leave your house."

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/130549-next-step-for-body-scanners-could-be-trains-boats-and-the-metro-

 

Also, Why Did the TSA Pat Down Kids, Adults Getting off Train?

Edited May 12, 2011 by Barb F. PA in AZ

[HLDoll]

You would be surprised (or maybe not) at how frequently guns/knives DON'T get noticed while going through the x-ray. DH has a friend whose job it is to test this, and let's just say that there is a higher failure rate than is comfortable.

 

It happens all the time. I flew with my boss from Dulles to Tennessee. His honkin' big pocketknife made it through Dulles. He didn't really even think about it - he just always put it in his pocket with his wallet in the morning. He put the knife in the tray with his keys when he walked through the metal detector and no one ever noticed it. But the TN airport caught it when we were flying back to Dulles. They were appalled that he'd been able to fly with it already and confiscated it.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Whether you have the standard metal detector, body scan or pat down is all quite random these days. You might get one--you might get more. So far everyone I've dealt with has been professional and kind.

 

Saying that you will wait to fly until all this ends is futile. IMHO it isn't going to end. Don't fly if you don't like it but don't expect it to go away anytime soon.

[WistfulRidge]

DH and I are planning on flying out to my parents for Christmas this year. I'm not really worried about anything - but that is partly because I have never had a bad experience with airport security. I've been told I have Jedi-like powers with airport employees, security especially (lol). The key to a good flying experience, IMO, is to know exactly what they're allowed to do, what makes their jobs easier (like having shoes off, things sorted, strollers folded, boarding pass and id out etc before they ask), be calm, confident/authoritative, and just move through as quickly as possible. Be polite, especially to those in security. Most of them think the new stuff is just as ridiculous/pointless/invasive as the rest of us and have to take a lot of crap for things that they don't have any control over.

 

However, if you go through all tense, nervous, freaking out, and/or you lash out, even slightly, at them you are going to have a more difficult trip. My parents are some of those that have talked up the security stuff to the point that my 9 year old sister is terrified of airport security. She was freaking out so badly last time my family flew that the airport thought she was being kidnapped - because her blind/fear panic read that way, so she and my family had to be patted down/questioned etc.

 

Are the security procedures largely pointless... oh yes. Someone really bent on doing damage is going to do damage, period, and a lot of stuff makes it through screening that really shouldn't. My brother once, in a flurry of packing, forgot to take his machete out of his bag from a recent camping trip. It was tucked in a side pocket and he totally forgot about it. He flew across the country with it and security never uttered a peep. Like a pp said, we've let the whole fear of terrorism take such root in our country and how we allow it to be run that while we'd all privately love a less invasive government at this point I don't think it's likely that we'll ever get one.