I probably shouldn't have said anything, but I did.

[FlockOfSillies]

We were in the food line at Cub Scout camp today, and I heard a woman ahead of me say, "<Kid's Name>, NO!", while a whole plate of food toppled to the ground. (Yummy chicken cordon bleu, rice pilaf, green beans, mmmm. :drool5: Sorry. Back to the story.) Little boy, about five years old, had knocked the plate out of his mom's hands because he refused to eat the food. He was going off about how he was just going to eat cereal and who knows what else because he didn't like that food and he was going to eat whatever he wanted. Lots of loud, "I don't like that!" and a bunch of other things -- just completely disrespectful. It was the kind of thing where you could tell food battles were the norm at home, and the mom's lack of effective response showed that this kid ran the show.

 

The mom was in tears and muttered that she was going to have a nervous breakdown. She looked like she felt completely helpless. I felt so bad for her. I wanted to help her pick it up, but I had my hands full and no good place to put the food down, so I mentioned to the volunteers that "we need to get this lady another plate of food." They said they'd clean up the mess.

 

I have no idea whether this kid was special needs, or having a bad day, or simply being a spoiled brat, or some combo of the three. But I could tell that Mom was down to her last nerve, and this kid was stomping on it. (I call these "Madagascar Days": a large shipping box, tape, and Media Mail postage to Madagascar. Airholes optional. :lol:)

 

I wanted to say something to the woman to encourage her ("Hey, it's OK. We've all had tough days with our kids," or some such thing), but she just looked like she wanted to be invisible. Kid was still mouthing off, and when he finally paused, I looked at him and said very calmly, "Young man, you do not talk to your mama that way. You need to tell her sorry." He actually got quiet for a minute, but as I turned away he started mouthing off again. Sigh. I wasn't really expecting him to apologize, but maybe I put a thought in both his mind and his mom's that his behavior was out of line, and that she shouldn't have to put up with it. Then again, maybe she was ready to go all mama bear on me for addressing her little angel instead of her. :001_rolleyes:

 

Maybe I crossed a line, but I felt like I had to say something to let this mom know that she wasn't crazy. And to all you moms who've had day after day like this, I just want to say that you're only being driven crazy. You have not yet arrived. Trust me -- not only do I live there, I'm the mayor. :D I hope tomorrow is a better day for each of you. (And if you need a "consultant" to take your little darling on a pilgrimage to the woodshed, I charge a very reasonable fee. :lol:)

[Twilight Woods]

*gasp*

 

 

Remember when we were growing up other parent's could discipline other children...it was kind of expected. Kinda like...Hey you got my back I got yours.

 

 

What happened to that?

 

 

Kudos to you for saying something. :)

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Sometimes you just can't resist!

[Peela]

I think that was a perfect response.

 

Sometimes I think mums need an advocate if they have a very strong kid- a kid whose personality or behaviour overwhelms their ability to deal with it effectively. I don't know what i would have done without dh there as back up on bad days- and plenty of women don't have that back up.

[TN Mama]

If you had said that to my kid, I would have raised an eye....at my kid....as to say "SEE, someone else thinks you are acting like a fool." Wouldn't make me mad at all if I knew my kid deserved it.

 

 

:iagree:

[Matryoshka]

If you had said that to my kid, I would have raised an eye....at my kid....as to say "SEE, someone else thinks you are acting like a fool." Wouldn't make me mad at all if I knew my kid deserved it.

 

:iagree: Personally, I think it's very healthy for kids to know that society has expectations for proper behavior, and it's not just mom making up arbitrary rules.

 

I would've said something too, and if I were the mom in those shoes, I would've appreciated someone else saying it.

[Crispa]

The urge to help is a good one. I might have asked the mom, with a sympathetic smile, "Can I help?" That's a show of support that doesn't risk overstepping any bounds. I wouldn't want a stranger (a church acquaintance, maybe, but not a complete stranger) to try to educate my child (who has Asperger's syndrome) on proper behavior; any attempt would probably become a message-board post from me, lol! "There I was, on my last legs, and then this woman scolded my son! The humiliation! And of course it only confused DS and prompted him to zero in on his case even more."

 

Then again, I don't like to force food issues under already stressful conditions. That's an issue for more controlled conditions. So you don't want the yummy chicken? Tummy hurts or you're too wound up to eat? OK, we'll leave it for somebody who will appreciate it. Cereal it is. This is not a convenient place for a food standoff.

[NanceXToo]

I would have considered that crossing a line. I would not want someone else, especially someone I didn't even know, attempting to discipline my children no matter how stressed I was, and I can see how it might have made that woman feel even worse- like "Does this stranger think she's a better parent than me, or why can someone else get my kid to do something I can't" or whatever.

 

I do think it would have been nice to say something light-hearted to her- "Tough age sometimes isn't it? We've all been there," but I wouldn't have tried to address the kid like that and wouldn't have wanted someone doing that to me.

[ktgrok]

Sorry, I do think that was over the line. As you said, you have no idea if this kid has special needs, etc. He could have been autistic or who knows what. And if that was the case, and I was his mother, your comment would have horrified and embarrassed me. She was having a hard enough time, and didn't need you stepping in and basically acting as if you knew how to handle the situation and she didn't.

 

I have a special needs kid. he wouldn't do what you described, but he has done equally bad things, and maybe you wouldn't like how I was handling it, but I would have my reasons. Having you step in would not be appreciated and would be hurtful.

 

I have NO problem disciplining another person's child, or having someone discipline mine, IF and ONLY IF I am not there handling it already. If I'm there interacting with the kid then back off.

[Ellie]

:hurray::cheers2::001_wub::thumbup:

 

IOW, well done!!!

[the4Rs]

I think you handled it fine. You merely commented to him to apologize. You didn't stay your ground until he did...you moved on. There was nothing wrong with that at all. You didn't physically touch him. You simply told him to respect his mom. I see nothing that would upset me. Maybe embarrass me but it wouldn't be your comment...it would be my child's behavior getting a reaction from a stranger. Does that make sense? But I wouldn't get angry with you.

[ereks mom]

*gasp*

 

 

Remember when we were growing up other parent's could discipline other children...it was kind of expected. Kinda like...Hey you got my back I got yours.

 

 

What happened to that?

 

 

Kudos to you for saying something. :)

 

:iagree:

[Jenny in Florida]

The urge to help is a good one. I might have asked the mom, with a sympathetic smile, "Can I help?" That's a show of support that doesn't risk overstepping any bounds. I wouldn't want a stranger (a church acquaintance, maybe, but not a complete stranger) to try to educate my child (who has Asperger's syndrome) on proper behavior; any attempt would probably become a message-board post from me, lol! "There I was, on my last legs, and then this woman scolded my son! The humiliation! And of course it only confused DS and prompted him to zero in on his case even more."

 

Then again, I don't like to force food issues under already stressful conditions. That's an issue for more controlled conditions. So you don't want the yummy chicken? Tummy hurts or you're too wound up to eat? OK, we'll leave it for somebody who will appreciate it. Cereal it is. This is not a convenient place for a food standoff.

 

I would have considered that crossing a line. I would not want someone else, especially someone I didn't even know, attempting to discipline my children no matter how stressed I was, and I can see how it might have made that woman feel even worse- like "Does this stranger think she's a better parent than me, or why can someone else get my kid to do something I can't" or whatever.

 

I do think it would have been nice to say something light-hearted to her- "Tough age sometimes isn't it? We've all been there," but I wouldn't have tried to address the kid like that and wouldn't have wanted someone doing that to me.

 

Sorry, I do think that was over the line. As you said, you have no idea if this kid has special needs, etc. He could have been autistic or who knows what. And if that was the case, and I was his mother, your comment would have horrified and embarrassed me. She was having a hard enough time, and didn't need you stepping in and basically acting as if you knew how to handle the situation and she didn't.

 

I have a special needs kid. he wouldn't do what you described, but he has done equally bad things, and maybe you wouldn't like how I was handling it, but I would have my reasons. Having you step in would not be appreciated and would be hurtful.

 

I have NO problem disciplining another person's child, or having someone discipline mine, IF and ONLY IF I am not there handling it already. If I'm there interacting with the kid then back off.

 

 

I've got to agree with these comments.

 

I do understand that your actions were prompted by a desire to help, but I absolutely do not think it is appropriate to discpline someone else's child when the parent is standing right there and engaged. You may not approve of the way the parent is handling the situation, but that's not your call to make. (Unless, of course, you'd like me to step in next time I see you in public and disapprove of your parenting approach?)

 

As the mom of a couple of picky eaters, I do think it's a mistake to try and force that sort of thing in crowded, public places. But none of us has any idea what had happened to lead up to that moment you witnessed.

 

A story from my own life: When my kids were four-five and one-two, we were dealing with an unbelievably stressful family situation. It nearly drove our daughter, who is extrememly bright and perceptive and emphathetic, over the edge. She went through a very rough year or so, during which she was having truly terrible, long-lasting tantrums several times a day. She was seeing a counselor, but we weren't making any headway.

 

My husband was working full time, sometimes weird hours, and we had one car. At the height of this, our daughter would frequently refuse to stay in her car seat, making it unsafe for me to drive.

 

Needless to say, this made our lives even more difficult, since it meant I couldn't count on being able to go out of the house, not knowing when she would explode again.

 

One day, things had been fine. We had taken my husband to work and kept the car so we could go to the library and run some errands. We were standing in line at Wal-Mart trying to pay for some groceries, when something set her off. She went into full-on tantrum mode, right there in line. It was the first time she'd ever gotten really awful in public, and I was boxed into a check-out line holding my son in my arms.

 

People were staring at us. They started commenting to each other and tsk-tsk-ing at me.

 

I was stuck there, knowing that if I didn't finish this transaction, I wouldn't go home with groceries. And I'd have to keep the car and try this whole thing over again the next day, with no guarantee of better results.

 

I was appalled, angry and embarassed.

 

As soon as I could extricate us from the line, I apologized to the clerk and the people around us and dragged both kids out of the store, leaving without our groceries.

 

I'm sure many of the folks in that line assumed I was a useless mother with a bratty child. Not one of them, I'm sure, knew that we were stuggling with the question of whether to medicate her or that, within a few months, she would be expressing suicidal thoughts. No one knew that the counselor she had been seeing--at a time when we had lousy insurance and were paying out of pocket for much of that care--would give up on her within a few weeks and refer us to a psychiatrist because our daughter's problems were "out of her league." They were also unaware that our daughter was also in and out of the pediatrician's office regularly because the stress was causing her to have stomach pain. Or that we had made a visit just a couple of weeks ago to the local children's hospital, where I had to physically hold her down on the table for a diagnostic scan.

 

They just saw a brat and a mother who couldn't handle it.

 

I'm sure, if any of them had spoken to my child, tried to take her in hand, it would have made the entire experience that much more devastating for me.

 

Having one single person simply make eye contact and smile sympathetically or even offer to help, on the other hand, would have made all the difference.

 

The point is that you never know what's happening in a family, not from the glimpse you get in a restaurant or grocery store. And I do not believe it is my job to try and "fix" other people's children, since I'm not in the know enough to have any clue what might actually be broken.

 

(For the record, my daughter's problems dissipated within a year or so, once the outside stressors were removed. She still deals with some anxiety, but we'll never have any way of knowing which was the chicken and which the egg. For the most part, she copes really well and is doing great. When I look back on that time in our lives, even I find it hard to believe she's the same kid. And we helped her through it just fine without some stranger taking her to task in public.)

Edited May 1, 2011 by Jenny in Florida

[cin]

I call these "Madagascar Days": a large shipping box, tape, and Media Mail postage to Madagascar. Airholes optional. :lol:

 

 

I have SO got to remember this line!

 

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

[4wildberrys]

:iagree: Personally, I think it's very healthy for kids to know that society has expectations for proper behavior, and it's not just mom making up arbitrary rules.

 

I would've said something too, and if I were the mom in those shoes, I would've appreciated someone else saying it.

:iagree:

 

I know Asperger's etc. can be a challenge, but most people wouldn't guess that was the issue and so commenting by another adult can make you cringe, but then again, the special needs kids ARE going to have to live in society one day too, and maybe knowing that there are appropriate behaviors expected by others, and not just mom and day, can help? I hope that's not offensive to say to mom's dealing with special needs kids ;) But a mom dealing with that type of behavior in public really could use the help as far as I'm concerned and shouldn't have to just sit there and take it while their child wreaks havoc.

[Alphabetika]

*gasp*

 

 

Remember when we were growing up other parent's could discipline other children...it was kind of expected. Kinda like...Hey you got my back I got yours.

 

 

What happened to that?

 

 

Kudos to you for saying something. :)

 

:iagree:Yes! Even if it didn't effect a change right then, I suspect it encouraged this mom and gave her a glimmer of an idea that her son needs stronger discipline. My dh is known to respond the same way in incidents like this. I can't tell you how many times he's told kids in adjoining restaurant booths, as they are hanging over into our booth over the top of the seat, to "Sit down!" My kids cringe, but I think it's an excellent thing for kids to know that they are not living in a vacuum and their behavior does affect others.

[JennyD]

 

I would interpret that comment as being a semi-veiled, somewhat condescending way of saying "I'd just like you to know that I have duly noted your child's bad behavior and by the way, you are doing a poor job as a parent."

 

In a million years it would never occur to me that someone would think that they were actually being helpful, much less that another parent in the same circumstance would find it helpful. It does sound like you honestly had good intentions, though, and at least one other previous poster has said that she would appreciate the backup, so perhaps I'm the cynical outlier here. In any event, helpful, to my mind, would be a sympathetic smile or kind remark. If the intent really is to judge and criticize, then at least have the decency to say it to my face. Don't run it through the kids.

Edited May 1, 2011 by JennyD

[Samiam]

I agree with what others have said. Mind your business.

 

Comfort the mother if you think you must.

 

But unless you know my child, know his situation, understand what is happening both now and behind the scenes (having been to Cub Scout camp, frankly the child was probably beyond exhausted..it's a busy weekend especially for a 5 year old and who knows what conditions he has that are non-visible), please DO NOT PARENT MY CHILD.

 

Speak to me if you have an issue, or a concern, or just want to offer a helping hand.

 

Had you said that to my child, I would have turn to you, and been just as rude as you were, and told you to mind your business, worry less about my situation, and try to focus your perfect parenting with your own perfect children.

[Lily of the Valley]

:iagree: Personally, I think it's very healthy for kids to know that society has expectations for proper behavior, and it's not just mom making up arbitrary rules.

 

I would've said something too, and if I were the mom in those shoes, I would've appreciated someone else saying it.

 

:iagree:

[happypamama]

Wow, I think that was a very hard situation. On the one hand, I agree with the other posters who said it was crossing a line, might make mom feel inadequate and worse, wouldn't want that done to me/my kid, etc. Otoh, I agree with the posters who said that it's good for kids to see that society, not just mom, has some standards for behavior too. And sometimes it takes someone different to have an effect, though generally, it probably works best if that person is obviously the Person In Charge (like when my older son kept forgetting to use his quiet voice in the library, despite many reminders and discussions from me, so I asked the head librarian to have a brief chat with him one day -- her obvious authority did seem to get through to him). I don't know that you really did anything wrong, though, and maybe it did plant a seed in his head.

[CatMomof3]

If the mom was handling it and you stepped in OR you were making comments behind her back that is one thing. But from your post, the mom needed help. There have been times when I have been stressed and strangers have stepped in and tried to help and I have been very grateful AND of course that have been times when my kids have acted like brats and I hear the comments behind my back (that is not so cool). Scouting is fun but can be overwhelming for both the kids and the parents. You did what you thought was right, that is what is important. What kind of society would we be living in if we did not at least TRY.

[QueenCat]

I know Asperger's etc. can be a challenge, but most people wouldn't guess that was the issue and so commenting by another adult can make you cringe, but then again, the special needs kids ARE going to have to live in society one day too, and maybe knowing that there are appropriate behaviors expected by others, and not just mom and day, can help? I hope that's not offensive to say to mom's dealing with special needs kids ;) But a mom dealing with that type of behavior in public really could use the help as far as I'm concerned and shouldn't have to just sit there and take it while their child wreaks havoc.

 

:iagree:I have a child with Aspergers. It is good for him to know that other people expect him to behave, and that certain behaviors are UNACCEPTABLE even if you do have a disability. When he was young, it was tough going for a while. We had to stop what we were doing often to address issues. I would not have tolerated him throwing the food, the behavior would have been addressed, even if I was having a Madagascar kind of day. I would have loved having someone else firmly telling him his behavior was NOT okay. Thankfully, as a high school senior, we are past that but some of his friends with AS are not. The biggest difference I see with those who still have "fits" when they are older is how their behavior was dealt with when they were younger. If it was accepted as "oh, he can't help it, he has AS" and not addressed, these kids still have issues as teens/young adults. Those with parents who said "sorry, I know this is hard for you, but you can't get your way by having a fit" and helped their child learn to deal with what is hard for them, tend to have their children doing much better as young adults/teens.

[Carol in Cal.]

In a situation like this, I usually would talk directly to the mother, or smile at her or something. I would want to reassure her that I'm not judging her based on his behavior. I would want to project calm and strength into her so that she could do what she needed to do.

 

But, you said that she had muttered already about the nervous breakdown, and in that situation, I think that if you spoke calmly when you addressed him, and weren't menacing about it, that it was probably just fine. I'm sure that you don't go around doing this sort of thing very often, and also in a cub scout setting there is a certain increase in 'group authority' that makes this more appropriate than it would be in other settings. It would never be OK in a grocery store line, for instance. It might be OK at a school function or another place where there is a shared community and some common assumption of appropriate behavior. I'm thinking that even then, this would be very rare, and if it weren't, it would not be appropriate.

[Elaine]

*gasp*

 

 

Remember when we were growing up other parent's could discipline other children...it was kind of expected. Kinda like...Hey you got my back I got yours.

 

 

What happened to that?

 

 

Kudos to you for saying something. :)

 

:iagree:

 

 

I probably would have said something, too. There are too many parents out there that allow their children to be in charge. Fast forward 20 years in this child's life. Can you imagine what he is going to be like?

 

Discipline. Get ya some.:D

[TN Mama]

I agree with what others have said. Mind your business.

 

Comfort the mother if you think you must.

 

But unless you know my child, know his situation, understand what is happening both now and behind the scenes (having been to Cub Scout camp, frankly the child was probably beyond exhausted..it's a busy weekend especially for a 5 year old and who knows what conditions he has that are non-visible), please DO NOT PARENT MY CHILD.

 

Speak to me if you have an issue, or a concern, or just want to offer a helping hand.

 

Had you said that to my child, I would have turn to you, and been just as rude as you were, and told you to mind your business, worry less about my situation, and try to focus your perfect parenting with your own perfect children.

 

Wow. I never saw mention of the op's perfect parenting or her perfect children. I'm unsure how one would even come to that conclusion.

[Elaine]

Wow. I never saw mention of the op's perfect parenting or her perfect children. I'm unsure how one would even come to that conclusion.

 

She didn't, but these threads always dissolve into that kind of personal attack, unfortunately.

[cdrumm4448]

I may be in the minority here, but I don't think you crossed a line. I was in a similar situation once (although it wasn't about food, we were in a store and my kids were stomping on music boxes). I was at my wits end trying to make them behave, and all I got were dirty looks from other shoppers. Not one single person said anything to my kids, even though I wished they would have. It seems the general public doesn't like to criticize children, even when they're acting like monsters.

 

If you ever see my kids running amok, feel free to address them. I wouldn't be offended.:D

Edited May 1, 2011 by cdrumm4448

[Heather in OK]

If you had done that to my child, we would have had words. And they wouldn't have been nice. ;)

 

You are right, you have NO idea what that child might be dealing with, what the mother may be dealing with, etc.

 

Giving her some encouraging words probably would have been a more gentle approach.

[Elizabeth in WA]

:iagree:I have a child with Aspergers. It is good for him to know that other people expect him to behave, and that certain behaviors are UNACCEPTABLE even if you do have a disability. When he was young, it was tough going for a while. We had to stop what we were doing often to address issues. I would not have tolerated him throwing the food, the behavior would have been addressed, even if I was having a Madagascar kind of day. I would have loved having someone else firmly telling him his behavior was NOT okay. Thankfully, as a high school senior, we are past that but some of his friends with AS are not. The biggest difference I see with those who still have "fits" when they are older is how their behavior was dealt with when they were younger. If it was accepted as "oh, he can't help it, he has AS" and not addressed, these kids still have issues as teens/young adults. Those with parents who said "sorry, I know this is hard for you, but you can't get your way by having a fit" and helped their child learn to deal with what is hard for them, tend to have their children doing much better as young adults/teens.

 

As another parent of an Aspie, I'll third this sentiment. It really does help them to be aware that expectations go beyond just their mom or family. As much as I am not a fan of "the village" raising kids, I have to admit that I needed the outside assistance with my aspie. From strangers saying something to the child and giving me sympathetic looks to a full on high adult-child ratio special ed social behavior program. But now, at almost 15 and a half, he makes me proud regularly. Actually, I depend even more on other adults for my sub-clinical but often socially "off" eleven year old. No matter what or how much I say it, he really does not fundamentally get that many behavior expectations are societal norms not just arbitrary mom rules. At least, he doesn't until he hears it from someone else, explicitly stated. For whatever reason, some kids, even kids not technically on the spectrum, can be completely oblivious to quiet disapproval from others no matter how painfully obvious it may be to their parents or siblings.

[joysworld]

I would have considered that crossing a line. I would not want someone else, especially someone I didn't even know, attempting to discipline my children no matter how stressed I was, and I can see how it might have made that woman feel even worse- like "Does this stranger think she's a better parent than me, or why can someone else get my kid to do something I can't" or whatever.

 

I do think it would have been nice to say something light-hearted to her- "Tough age sometimes isn't it? We've all been there," but I wouldn't have tried to address the kid like that and wouldn't have wanted someone doing that to me.

 

I'm going to have to agree. I have a special needs son, but he is very high functioning, and appears 'normal' to others. So when he is having a bad day, others look at him and see a normal boy and don't understand why I don't discipline better. I have been the mom out in public that was almost in literal tears. If someone would had said what you said, I would have actual broken down in tears.

 

At one point, I almost stopped going to church because I was tired of picking him up from his class and always getting a negative report about him. Fortunately, his current teacher is simply amazing, and every time I pick him up for her class, I only get raving reviews about him.

 

When we are with associates or out in public, I cringe inside to see eyes on us, and can't help but to feel their judgement.

 

Now, I'm not saying that this boy has neurological issues or anything, but a frustrated mom doesn't usually hand correction of their child well. I would have felt your comment was a judgement of me.

 

Now, after saying this, I feel I must rave about my son. He is an awesome little boy, very smart, and very sweet. He just has 'quirks' that most people don't get:)

[Samiam]

She didn't, but these threads always dissolve into that kind of personal attack, unfortunately.

 

It's not a personal attack at all. OP didn't mention that she had perfect children, but she did judge someone else's parenting technique and child based on standing in line with them for five minutes. Then she had thought it was her right to correct someone else's child according to standards she has set for herself, her parenting techniques and her children.

 

Again, she had no knowledge of any other aspect of this mother and child's life except for this five minutes in a food line. Mother could have been tired, child could have been tired, etc etc etc, etc, various reasons why the scenario was going down the way it was going down, and she knew about NONE of those reasons, just that she didn't agree with how the child was acting or the parenting that mother was doing.

 

Do I agree that children should be taught to act a certain way, absolutely. But on any given day, if you walk in and out of my life for just 5 brief minutes, you could find one my children not acting correctly, and you may even find that I am not parenting to the best of my ability. Don't judge me, or correct my child based on those five minutes. Come back into my life, spend hours, days, get to know us, see the times when we are on our best behaviour and know that we all have those 5 minutes we wish no one would see, let alone COMMENT ON.

 

As I said, those words were what I would have said at that moment had she corrected my child because I would have thought that she was pretty darn rude at that point. Because what she did was not helpful to the mother. There were other ways she could have helped the adult in the situation, which then could have enabled that adult to deal better with her own child.

[Mynyel]

I think your response was perfect.

 

Not like other ladies.

 

I was very pregnant with ds9 and I was trying to get dd14 (well 4 at the time!) to go potty. It was in a public restroom in a camp/day area. Well there was a spider near the toilet sitting in a web (it was near the floor in between the stalls.. She refused to get on the pot but had to go pee bad.

There was a lady in the stall over so there wasn't an option to go to another stall. Anyway to make a long story short I told her to get on the pot with a four letter word (not the f, s or b bomb! Just the d word) thrown in for my angst.

This lady over in the other stall said "Hey, lady cool it" :001_huh: Scuse me? I am already rankled and she said that to me? I told her to mind her own **** business. I said a couple other 4 letter words (this time to goad her :tongue_smilie:) Then she said I really needed to calm down.

Shoulda seen her face when I came barreling out of the stall telling her to mind her own business.

 

My point in the story? It is all in the wording. Is she had said something more like, "Hey you need help?" or "She can have my stall in just a second" OR is she has addressed my daughter in the same manner you addressed this child it would have been a whole different story, but this lady came off all high and mighty and ticked me off even more than I already was.

 

Now granted I realize my... erm... verbage at the time left something to e desired, I know that. Still, don't go yellin at me like you know better. :)

[NavyWifeandMommy]

I have gone thru this with my seven year old quite a few times. I just want to melt away or just leave. Honestly if you came to me and said that I would feel even more horrible of a mom because someone else pointed out my child's negative behavior. It's not like I don't know he's being less than a wonderfuly child at that moment, I don't need someone else to point it out even if you are trying to be helpful. I have actually been there done that with two moms in my community act similar to you and it upsetted me. I didn't tell them I was less than pleased with her comments I just limit my time with them.

[Geo]

I've got to agree with these comments.

 

I do understand that your actions were prompted by a desire to help, but I absolutely do not think it is appropriate to discpline someone else's child when the parent is standing right there and engaged. You may not approve of the way the parent is handling the situation, but that's not your call to make. (Unless, of course, you'd like me to step in next time I see you in public and disapprove of your parenting approach?)

 

As the mom of a couple of picky eaters, I do think it's a mistake to try and force that sort of thing in crowded, public places. But none of us has any idea what had happened to lead up to that moment you witnessed.

 

A story from my own life: When my kids were four-five and one-two, we were dealing with an unbelievably stressful family situation. It nearly drove our daughter, who is extrememly bright and perceptive and emphathetic, over the edge. She went through a very rough year or so, during which she was having truly terrible, long-lasting tantrums several times a day. She was seeing a counselor, but we weren't making any headway.

 

My husband was working full time, sometimes weird hours, and we had one car. At the height of this, our daughter would frequently refuse to stay in her car seat, making it unsafe for me to drive.

 

Needless to say, this made our lives even more difficult, since it meant I couldn't count on being able to go out of the house, not knowing when she would explode again.

 

One day, things had been fine. We had taken my husband to work and kept the car so we could go to the library and run some errands. We were standing in line at Wal-Mart trying to pay for some groceries, when something set her off. She went into full-on tantrum mode, right there in line. It was the first time she'd ever gotten really awful in public, and I was boxed into a check-out line holding my son in my arms.

 

People were staring at us. They started commenting to each other and tsk-tsk-ing at me.

 

I was stuck there, knowing that if I didn't finish this transaction, I wouldn't go home with groceries. And I'd have to keep the car and try this whole thing over again the next day, with no guarantee of better results.

 

I was appalled, angry and embarassed.

 

As soon as I could extricate us from the line, I apologized to the clerk and the people around us and dragged both kids out of the store, leaving without our groceries.

 

I'm sure many of the folks in that line assumed I was a useless mother with a bratty child. Not one of them, I'm sure, knew that we were stuggling with the question of whether to medicate her or that, within a few months, she would be expressing suicidal thoughts. No one knew that the counselor she had been seeing--at a time when we had lousy insurance and were paying out of pocket for much of that care--would give up on her within a few weeks and refer us to a psychiatrist because our daughter's problems were "out of her league." They were also unaware that our daughter was also in and out of the pediatrician's office regularly because the stress was causing her to have stomach pain. Or that we had made a visit just a couple of weeks ago to the local children's hospital, where I had to physically hold her down on the table for a diagnostic scan.

 

They just saw a brat and a mother who couldn't handle it.

 

I'm sure, if any of them had spoken to my child, tried to take her in hand, it would have made the entire experience that much more devastating for me.

 

Having one single person simply make eye contact and smile sympathetically or even offer to help, on the other hand, would have made all the difference.

 

The point is that you never know what's happening in a family, not from the glimpse you get in a restaurant or grocery store. And I do not believe it is my job to try and "fix" other people's children, since I'm not in the know enough to have any clue what might actually be broken.

 

(For the record, my daughter's problems dissipated within a year or so, once the outside stressors were removed. She still deals with some anxiety, but we'll never have any way of knowing which was the chicken and which the egg. For the most part, she copes really well and is doing great. When I look back on that time in our lives, even I find it hard to believe she's the same kid. And we helped her through it just fine without some stranger taking her to task in public.)

 

I understand the good intentions, but I agree with Jenny.

 

I have a special needs kid who is capable of public displays. He looks perfectly normal. He is also a cub scout. This could be us...at any time.

It happens rarely now that he takes medication for an anxiety disorder, but there's no guarantee.

 

One of the hardest parts of parenting him has been the judgement and isolation I have felt from others. You cannot imagine the pain and frustration of being (or living with) someone who struggles with things that are a matter of course for others. We've been robbed of those assumptions.

 

We do handle those situations when they arise, but not publicly...in the heat of battle. Maybe this mom has not yet learned the ropes.

 

This isn't to say that all similar situations involve special needs kids, but we just can't know which ones are. It's wise to practice humility in such things.

 

Geo

Edited May 1, 2011 by Geo
added that we DO we handle it!

[joysworld]

I understand the good intentions, but I agree with Jenny.

 

I have a special needs kid who is capable of public displays. He looks perfectly normal. He is also a cub scout. This could be us...at any time.

It happens rarely now that he takes medication for an anxiety disorder, but there's no guarantee.

 

One of the hardest parts of parenting him has been the judgement and isolation I have felt from others. You cannot imagine the pain and frustration of being (or living with) someone who struggles with things that are a matter of course for others. We've been robbed of those assumptions.

 

 

This isn't to say that all similar situations involve special needs kids, but we just can't know which ones are. It's wise to practice humility in such things.

 

Geo

 

Geo, you are right on target. Even with friends and families, it's hard. I'm constantly having to leave the adults I'm talking with to deal with one of my son's 'quirks'. It is extremely isolating.

[tex-mex]

*gasp*

 

 

Remember when we were growing up other parent's could discipline other children...it was kind of expected. Kinda like...Hey you got my back I got yours.

 

 

What happened to that?

 

 

Kudos to you for saying something. :)

:iagree: I grew up in a small town where everyone knew your business. On the first day of school as a second grader, my mother introduced me to my new teacher. She also said, "If my daughter misbehaves, you have my permission to spank her." ;)

 

I knew if I misbehaved, my mama would find out quick. LOL :lol:

[DianeW88]

*gasp*

 

 

Remember when we were growing up other parent's could discipline other children...it was kind of expected. Kinda like...Hey you got my back I got yours.

 

 

What happened to that?

 

 

Kudos to you for saying something. :)

 

:iagree: I agree. I think you did the right thing.

[Gratia271]

We were in the food line at Cub Scout camp today, and I heard a woman ahead of me say, "<Kid's Name>, NO!", while a whole plate of food toppled to the ground. (Yummy chicken cordon bleu, rice pilaf, green beans, mmmm. :drool5: Sorry. Back to the story.) Little boy, about five years old, had knocked the plate out of his mom's hands because he refused to eat the food. He was going off about how he was just going to eat cereal and who knows what else because he didn't like that food and he was going to eat whatever he wanted. Lots of loud, "I don't like that!" and a bunch of other things -- just completely disrespectful. It was the kind of thing where you could tell food battles were the norm at home, and the mom's lack of effective response showed that this kid ran the show.

 

The mom was in tears and muttered that she was going to have a nervous breakdown. She looked like she felt completely helpless. I felt so bad for her. I wanted to help her pick it up, but I had my hands full and no good place to put the food down, so I mentioned to the volunteers that "we need to get this lady another plate of food." They said they'd clean up the mess.

 

I have no idea whether this kid was special needs, or having a bad day, or simply being a spoiled brat, or some combo of the three. But I could tell that Mom was down to her last nerve, and this kid was stomping on it. (I call these "Madagascar Days": a large shipping box, tape, and Media Mail postage to Madagascar. Airholes optional. :lol:)

 

I wanted to say something to the woman to encourage her ("Hey, it's OK. We've all had tough days with our kids," or some such thing), but she just looked like she wanted to be invisible. Kid was still mouthing off, and when he finally paused, I looked at him and said very calmly, "Young man, you do not talk to your mama that way. You need to tell her sorry." He actually got quiet for a minute, but as I turned away he started mouthing off again. Sigh. I wasn't really expecting him to apologize, but maybe I put a thought in both his mind and his mom's that his behavior was out of line, and that she shouldn't have to put up with it. Then again, maybe she was ready to go all mama bear on me for addressing her little angel instead of her. :001_rolleyes:

 

Maybe I crossed a line, but I felt like I had to say something to let this mom know that she wasn't crazy. And to all you moms who've had day after day like this, I just want to say that you're only being driven crazy. You have not yet arrived. Trust me -- not only do I live there, I'm the mayor. :D I hope tomorrow is a better day for each of you. (And if you need a "consultant" to take your little darling on a pilgrimage to the woodshed, I charge a very reasonable fee. :lol:)

 

This mom clearly needs some support and help. Your intentions were to provide this, and I admire you for caring enough about someone else to stick your neck out! How she construed what you did... well, we can only conjecture in the absence of her replying to you.

 

It saddens me that so many women allow themselves to be treated this way; however, it is their right and it is their business how they wish to maintain their relationships. Maybe this child has special needs, or maybe he is like some of my relatives who are overindulged and listen to EVERYONE but their mother. Well, I don't interpose myself on her behalf because it is her business how she manages them, not mine. At the same time, I no longer listen to her whine about how they listen to and respect everyone but her. ;)

[TravelingChris]

I honestly don't care if the child is special need or not. Talking rudely to his mother is not acceptable and someone backing up the mother on this point is fine with me.

 

Oh and yes, I have two children (now adults) who are ADHD and both had episodes at time. Yes, there were precipitating circumstances- lack of adequate sleep, inadequate medication dosage, etc, etc. Didn't matter- being somewhat hyper was understandable- being rude was and still not. One of the very most important things I had to teach my severely ADHD child was to leave a situation and calm down. It was to teach her how to recognize she is losing control and exit the situation before she does. Why is it such an important lesson- because if it isn't taught and learned arrests and job firings will be happening as the child gets older and still keeps losing control.

[joysworld]

I honestly don't care if the child is special need or not. Talking rudely to his mother is not acceptable and someone backing up the mother on this point is fine with me.

 

Oh and yes, I have two children (now adults) who are ADHD and both had episodes at time. Yes, there were precipitating circumstances- lack of adequate sleep, inadequate medication dosage, etc, etc. Didn't matter- being somewhat hyper was understandable- being rude was and still not. One of the very most important things I had to teach my severely ADHD child was to leave a situation and calm down. It was to teach her how to recognize she is losing control and exit the situation before she does. Why is it such an important lesson- because if it isn't taught and learned arrests and job firings will be happening as the child gets older and still keeps losing control.

 

I agree that talking disrespectful is not acceptable, however we can't all be the best parents every single minute of every single day. Moms have off days, moms will be tired, at their wits ends, stressed out, sick, and whatever else. None of us know what this mom was going through at that moment. Those five minutes do not give us a complete picture as to her parenting abilities and skills.

[TravelingChris]

I understand that we don't know what the mom was going through. BUt even if the mom was only overwhelmed at that time, commenting to the child that he shouldn't scream at his mother or some comment like that is not a slam at the mother, it is a chastisement of the child.

[Matryoshka]

I agree that talking disrespectful is not acceptable, however we can't all be the best parents every single minute of every single day. Moms have off days, moms will be tired, at their wits ends, stressed out, sick, and whatever else. None of us know what this mom was going through at that moment. Those five minutes do not give us a complete picture as to her parenting abilities and skills.

 

Backing a mother up is quite a different thing than questioning her parenting or judging her. I view the OP's actions as showing solidarity and support, not judging.

 

I always appreciate when others' tell my children that they should not speak rudely to me, even if I'm there (and yes, this has happened to me). Maybe y'all are much better parents than I am, but they don't always even believe me that they're out of line, and I love it if they get outside reinforcement. I feel validated and backed up, not judged.

 

It's the golden rule - I do unto others as I would have them do unto me. I realize that not all would have done unto them as I would, but I can't read others' minds, so it's the best I can do.

[joysworld]

Backing a mother up is quite a different thing than questioning her parenting or judging her. I view the OP's actions as showing solidarity and support, not judging.

 

I always appreciate when others' tell my children that they should not speak rudely to me, even if I'm there (and yes, this has happened to me). Maybe y'all are much better parents than I am, but they don't always even believe me that they're out of line, and I love it if they get outside reinforcement.

 

It's the golden rule - I do unto others as I would have them do unto me. I realize that not all would have done unto them as I would, but I can't read others' minds, so it's the best I can do.

 

I understand that the OP was not passing judgement on this mom, but to a distressed mother, help is often viewed as judgement, and only serves to heap shame onto the mom.

[bookfiend]

And now I bet you're thinking, I probably shouldn't have written anything, but I did...

[Rivka]

:iagree:Yes! Even if it didn't effect a change right then, I suspect it encouraged this mom and gave her a glimmer of an idea that her son needs stronger discipline. My dh is known to respond the same way in incidents like this. I can't tell you how many times he's told kids in adjoining restaurant booths, as they are hanging over into our booth over the top of the seat, to "Sit down!" My kids cringe, but I think it's an excellent thing for kids to know that they are not living in a vacuum and their behavior does affect others.

 

To me it's perfectly acceptable to tell children that they are bothering you, as in this example of telling them not to hang into your restaurant booth. What I think goes over the line is commenting on a strange child's behavior when you are not the injured party.

 

I probably would have said something, too. There are too many parents out there that allow their children to be in charge. Fast forward 20 years in this child's life. Can you imagine what he is going to be like?

 

Discipline. Get ya some.:D

 

Wow. A five minute snippet of unacceptable behavior at Cub Scout camp, and you've got the entire history of the kid and parents mapped out for the past and future? Even though you have no idea what the mother's intentions for private discipline regarding that situation were, or what the kid is like in other contexts, or really, anything at all about the family?

 

Yeah. This is why intervening in a situation like this reads as judgment, not help. Because when a person has made the leap from "you're not handling this situation the way I would" to "you are a complete failure at discipline," it's obvious in their tone and manner.

 

Remember when we were growing up other parent's could discipline other children...it was kind of expected. Kinda like...Hey you got my back I got yours.

 

What happened to that?

 

Well, for one thing, we're not a culture that is uniform in its values and expectations for children... if we ever were. I think you'll find that in subgroups which do have closely shared values and parenting styles, people do still discipline each other's kids. Outside that kind of context, no.

[Carol in Cal.]

OK. Look.

 

I have met the OP, and she's not the type to jump into a situation this way. She is cheerful and friendly in affect, and thoughtful and respectful of other people; and I'm sure that this impulse was a good one. I'm sure that she wouldn't do this often or randomly, and I think that her intuition was a good guide in this case.

[cdrumm4448]

As I mentioned, I have been in a similar situation myself. It's interesting to me that many people consider addressing the child in a thoughtful, nonconfrontational manner unacceptable and somehow heaps "shame" upon the mother. There certainly were plenty of dirty looks in my situation. How is that more helpful?

[Jenny in Florida]

Backing a mother up is quite a different thing than questioning her parenting or judging her. I view the OP's actions as showing solidarity and support, not judging.

 

But how would you (or anyone in that situation) know that your chastisement of another's child is consistent with that mother's parenting approach?

 

For example, we've NEVER demanded that our children apologize to us. I've never understood why it's helpful to force a child to lie to me as punishment. Saying the words "I'm sorry," to me, is meaningless until and unless the child actually IS sorry. So, a stranger who insisted that my child go through the motions like that would not only confuse my child but give him or her a mixed message that would NOT be supportive of me as a parent. In fact, it might undermine me.

[NanceXToo]

As I mentioned, I have been in a similar situation myself. It's interesting to me that many people consider addressing the child in a thoughtful, nonconfrontational manner unacceptable and somehow heaps "shame" upon the mother. There certainly were plenty of dirty looks in my situation. How is that more helpful?

 

Look, if I was in that woman's situation, I'd have been mortified. Sometimes we're just not at our best, sometimes our children are just not at our best, and there could be a million and one reasons for that.

 

If my kid was having an off day or an off moment and I was feeling upset about it and saying something to him, and then there's some strange woman I never met in my life standing in line with her own children who are apparently NOT having an off day or an off moment and she decided to discipline my child... Wow.

 

I'd be feeling all sorts of mortified. Like great here's this woman who thinks she knows how to parent better than I do, who apparently sees me as a useless parent who needs someone to step in and parent for her, who thinks she's got the key to what my child needs in regard to discipline all figured out- AND SHE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW US!

 

I don't care how good her intentions were (and I'm sure they were meant to be good), I'd be insulted, embarrassed, and I would have gone home and lost days of sleep thinking back over "Why did I let her do that, should I have said something, are my parenting skills really that bad, are hers really that good, who did she think she was" and so on and so forth.

 

Doing something like that is NOT a way to help, it just comes across as "I'm a better parent than you, so let me show you how you OUGHT to be doing this parenting thing!" rather than helpful.

[Jenny in Florida]

There certainly were plenty of dirty looks in my situation. How is that more helpful?

 

It's not. But I don't think that's the only or the appropriate alternative.

 

In those situations, my usual response it to either politely ignore the situation or to try and catch the mother's eye and smile or say something sympathetic. Even asking if there's anything I can do to help, to me, is better and more supportive than stepping into a parental role with a stranger's child. The mother is an adult. She has the right to either accept my offer of help or tell me to shove off. Her child is a child and does not have that power.