For those who selectively vaccinate...

[StaceyinLA]

Which vaccines do you choose to give, and why?

[staceyobu]

I do not give rotavirus (newer vaccine... last version pulled for causing intestinal twisting). I will not give hepatitis b as an infant (but might reconsider as they get older) because of how it is transmitted the risk of a child catching the disease are very low. I do not give hep a because it is typically a mild illness in a child.

 

I give the others on a more delayed schedule. I found the Dr. Sears Vaccine Book very helpful in explaining each disease and the vaccine for it.

[Karen in CO]

One of my kids is fully vaccinated. I didn't start questioning vaccines until my youngest had a severe reaction to DTaP, twice. Her doctor and I go over every vaccine to weigh the risk of the vaccine against the severity of the illness and the chance of catching it.

[HayesW]

I have done a DTaP in the winter to keep pertussis at bay for each of my children once they were about a year old and keep up with those. Also, my bigger children, I try to keep them up to date on Tetanus. They all attend camps where tetanus is more of a possibility, and since I wouldn't be there if something DID happen to be sure they received proper treatment for tetanus, I prefer to know they are more protected.

[Gailmegan]

I wasn't a selective with the older two. Ds1 got everything (except flu or rotovirus). Ds2 got the same except I said no to MMR and Chicken Pox.

 

My two year old has had DTaP (daptacel brand) and HiB (I forget which) - 3 doses of each at 6 mos, 9 mos and a year. At 2 years he received Pneumovax for pneumococcal pneumonia.

 

HiB vaccine (the brand my ped carries) has nothing in it except the virus and saline. And I'm afraid of pertussis in little ones. Daptacel has the least amount of aluminum and no mercury. I am also concerned about pneumococcal pneumonia, but Prevnar caused high fevers in my older two so there was no way I was giving it to ds3. They won't give Pneumovax until two years, so we skipped Prevnar and waited until he was two.

 

I do plan to give tetanus boosters and when my boys are 10 i will order titers for MMR and Chicken Pox. I really hope they get Chicken Pox naturally before then, but I will decide what to do when I cross that bridge.

 

As for the ones I declined all together like Polio and Hep B, I feel there is very low risk of contracting these, but should we need to go to an underdeveloped country, I may reconsider.

 

Flu and rotovirus are no way, no how, ever.

 

Dr Sears' The Vaccine Book is a great resource to help you weigh the pros and cons to decide for yourself.

[Ann@thebeach]

I do not get Hep A or B, chicken pox, pertussis, or anything "new" until it's been around for many years so I can see more long term research on it.

 

I also never give more than 2 shots at a time (easier to isolate vax if there is a reaction) and no shots until after 6 mos. I tend to wait until after 1 yr for most and then space them out as needed. My drs have never had a problem with this. Since many of the shots are "combo" shots I request them to be separate if it's more than 2 vax in 1 shot. Dr has been fine with this.

 

I also always hold and nurse my babies during ALL shots and they rarely cry-if so it's for a few seconds! (and I've never been bit despite the fact the nurses are sure I will be ;) and this is with 4 kids!)

 

There are some great books out there with more info.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Ann in IA

[Parrothead]

Dd had all of the required vaxes, except the Hep B vax, until she was 2. Around her 2nd birthday I stumbled onto a vaccine injury website. Of those the only one I really regret is the chicken pox vax. I really wish she just got the pox.

 

When dd is an adult going into her career field she can decide about the Hep B vax. Prior to college I'll push for her to get the meningitis vax if she is planning on living in the dorms.

 

Actually that is how I feel about a lot of them now. The only vax I insist on is the tetanus shot. She just had that booster about 3 weeks ago.

 

So if I had to do it all over again I'd allow no vaccines as a newborn. About the time she started walking I'd have allowed the DPT(or whatever it is called today) shot(s). I'd have actively looked for a "chicken pox party" any time after she turned 2. If there happened to be an outbreak of something (think measles or polio, not the flu) I'd seriously consider a shot for that specific outbreak.

 

Other than those she can decide as an adult which vaccines she will need for her lifestyle.

[Random]

We don't do flu, chicken pox (until age 13, if they haven't had the virus), rotovirus, pneumococcal, Hep A or B, MMR or HPV.

 

We do DTaP, and will do Meningococcal later than recommended.

 

I am undecided about Polio. Even though it's non-existent in the US, I would never want my kids to contract it.

 

As for the why's, I think the diseases themselves carry less risk than the vaccines. I personally think most of these vaccines are just an income source for those concerned, and can cause serious health problems instead of health benefits.

 

I am very thankful we live in a culture where most of these diseases are not life-threatening.

[tabrizia]

We don't do Rotovirus, Chicken Pox (at least not till teens), Hep A and B (until older), or Flu shots.

 

We also do a very delayed scheduled that starts at 4 months and has them caught up to the vaccines I want them to have at 3.

 

Some of the vaccines we do gt are based off the fact that we visit third world nations where some of the diseases like Polio are still present, if rare.

[ChristusG]

No rotovirus, chicken pox, hep B, meningitis (at least till college), HPV, MMR, or flu shots. The others I'm on the fence about. DD7 is fully vaccinated up till her 2 year old shots. DD4 is fully vaccinated up to her 9 month shots. After that, I began to research. I didn't like what I found so we stopped. I'm unsure of what to get the new baby, but I know it will not get the ones listed above. I'm still researching the others.

[Mama Geek]

I have also read Dr Sear's book and have ended up postponing a lot of the vaccines that we have decided to give dd more due to problems with pediatricians. DD will not be in daycare or preschool and will be home schooled and in the US. That is why we have chosen to not get some of them and to postpone others. If things change and we decide to go out of the country or God forbid :tongue_smilie: end up up putting her in school we will reevaluate.

 

 

I do not get Hep A or B, chicken pox, pertussis, or anything "new" until it's been around for many years so I can see more long term research on it.

 

I also never give more than 2 shots at a time (easier to isolate vax if there is a reaction) and no shots until after 6 mos. I tend to wait until after 1 yr for most and then space them out as needed. My drs have never had a problem with this. Since many of the shots are "combo" shots I request them to be separate if it's more than 2 vax in 1 shot. Dr has been fine with this.

 

I also always hold and nurse my babies during ALL shots and they rarely cry-if so it's for a few seconds! (and I've never been bit despite the fact the nurses are sure I will be ;) and this is with 4 kids!)

 

There are some great books out there with more info.

 

I have had horrible luck finding reasonable Dr's. I have been through several partly due to issues with not wanting to follow the normal vaccine schedule and partly due to slow weight gain in the early months and refusing to supplement with formula.

 

I am back to searching for a Dr. There is a ped about 45 minutes from here that I have found online that will work with the vaccine schedule, but I would love to find someone closer.

[Annie]

We don't do rotavirus, chickenpox (I'll think about it around 11 or 12), hep B (at least not yet, I'll think about it later) or flu. Our pediatrician doesn't recommend MMR until at least 2. I'm still unsure about it, but if we do give it, it won't be any time soon.

 

We do not do more than two vaccines at a time.

 

Our pediatrician is an advocate for a delayed schedule. I can PM it to you if you would like.

[indigomama]

I second Dr Sears book, in fact any of his books. We rarely go to the Dr. because I have found most of my questions and concerns answered in Dr Sears' books.

Also, have your DD (I assume that's who you're asking for) ask her Ped. Our Ped has an alternative schedule already set up for those of us who delay. :001_wub: our Ped.

[RainbowSprinkles]

My first three children have been fully vaccinated. I've never really looked into it or questioned vaccines until a couple of months ago. I'm now 4 months pregnant and have been doing a ton of reading on the subject.

 

I'm obviously not done yet, but so far I've decided NOT to give:

 

HepB, Polio, Chicken Pox, MMR and Rotavirus. Oh, and the flu shot of course.

 

I will most likely do DTaP. I still have to look at all the other ones and decide.

 

HTH

[StaceyinLA]

There are SO many vaccines now! I delayed vaccines, and then didn't fully vax my kids. They were always bf, never in daycare, and we never experienced illnesses at ll. In fact, none had a single antibiotic before their teen years (except ds who was bitten by a brown recluse and had penicillen because the ped was worried about staph as his skin was sloughing off).

 

Anyway, back to the topic. I just want to give my daughter the means to make an informed decision. I'm sending her the book, but I know she is going to ask questions. I can honestly say that if it were me, I'd probably do none and take my chances with a strong immune system, but I want her to make her own decisions based on solid information.

 

I like Dr. Sears' selective vax schedule, but would probably encourage her to eliminate the rotavirus vax based on his comments earlier in the book about bf and non-daycare babies being a low risk for it. It is also still new, and just kinda iffy to me. Dgs had a really horrible reaction to it - he had diarrhea for 3solid WEEKS, like WATER!

 

That basically puts her with DTAP at 2 months alternatining bi-monthly with Pc and HIB. We would request the DTAP that had no human or animal products. Idk if I would encourage delaying the entire series until a bit later, or just sticking with his recs. Ideas???

[Gailmegan]

There are SO many vaccines now! I delayed vaccines, and then didn't fully vax my kids. They were always bf, never in daycare, and we never experienced illnesses at ll. In fact, none had a single antibiotic before their teen years (except ds who was bitten by a brown recluse and had penicillen because the ped was worried about staph as his skin was sloughing off).

 

Anyway, back to the topic. I just want to give my daughter the means to make an informed decision. I'm sending her the book, but I know she is going to ask questions. I can honestly say that if it were me, I'd probably do none and take my chances with a strong immune system, but I want her to make her own decisions based on solid information.

 

I like Dr. Sears' selective vax schedule, but would probably encourage her to eliminate the rotavirus vax based on his comments earlier in the book about bf and non-daycare babies being a low risk for it. It is also still new, and just kinda iffy to me. Dgs had a really horrible reaction to it - he had diarrhea for 3solid WEEKS, like WATER!

 

That basically puts her with DTAP at 2 months alternatining bi-monthly with Pc and HIB. We would request the DTAP that had no human or animal products. Idk if I would encourage delaying the entire series until a bit later, or just sticking with his recs. Ideas???

 

I don't have the book in front of me, but he has a schedule in the back for selective and delayed, explaining how if you start at 6 mos, you only need 3 of the Hib and DTap. I wish i could tell you the page number.

 

We did exactly what Sears recommends with the just HiB and DTap, but skipped the Pc until 2 because of the reactions to Prevnar. Ds3 had no bad reactions to Pneumovax at 2.

[Annie]

We did the dtap earlier than I probably would have otherwise because we were going to be traveling by plane multiple times in my little guy's first year of life. I know there is some discussion around if the vaccine would actually keep you from getting pertussis or just make the symptoms less or something, but honestly, it just felt like the right thing to me.

 

Didn't you mention your daugter and grand baby coming to visit?

 

ETA - I have a very healthy immune system (I think the only time I've had antibiotics was my c section), but I still get sick something like 25% of the time I'm on a plane. However, I also have bad luck and seem to always be seated in front of the person hacking up a lung. :P

Edited April 26, 2011 by Annie

[lllll]

...

[StaceyinLA]

Dd will definitely be flying here with the baby within his first few months. I think I will encourage her to be on target with that DTaP given the situation. If she gives it at 2 months, the way Dr. Sears has the schedule set up, he could probably get his second one before they'd have to fly (I think they'll be flying here when the baby is about 4 months old).

[IrresistibleGrace]

Thank you for this thread! I have just started looking in to the vaccine 'issue', and I do not like what I read/hear.

 

It is "too late" for my oldest dd and ds, but what about my 3yo and 1yo?

 

Does anyone know if it is okay to just stop certain vaccines? (Not get the next reccomended dose)

 

I have not read Dr. Sears' book, but I will be getting it. And I honestly couldn't tell you which vaccines they have had without going to dig out their shot records. But I have always done whatever the ped said to do, and our ped is a big pusher of all vaccines so I'm sure they have had them all (except flu). :glare:

 

Anyway, this was very helpful! Thank you to the OP and for all who replied! :001_smile:

[StaceyinLA]

(and I have always leaned toward anti-vax), was how Dr. Sears, though he presents no real negativity towards vaccinations, presented questions about things like the aluminum overload when babies are getting literally 7 and 8 vaccines at once. I was STUNNED! I mean, the recommendation is for babies not to have more than 50 micrograms at a time, but one round of vaccines at the tender age of 2 months, can have over 1200 micrograms of aluminum! That alone scares me to death, and that is the tip of the iceberg when you look at some of the other ingredients!

 

I just don't believe the repercussions of this have begun to be considered (and I'm just enough of a conspiracy theorist to think that they tell us what they want us to hear).

 

Dr. Sears presents a VERY fair and balanced look at the whole picture, without condmening vaccines as a whole. It makes it much easier for parents to make an informed decision.

[PinkInTheBlue]

Well, I have Dr. Sears' book but I'm not sure what to do about something. We have intentionally not given our 4/almost 5 year old any vaccines yet. However, I don't have the intentions of none at all. I just want to be very, very selective. Reading his delayed section of the book doesn't really address delaying THIS long. I think the pieces of the DTaP are important but I really want them separated. I can't seem to decide what he needs at this age.

 

Any help?

 

Also, all the Peds in our town are in two major groups. They have a group mentality also. All of them in the groups seem to have the same opinions and those are very traditional opinions. Any suggestions of how to have that conversation? Who has the control here? Will they just refuse to do what I want?

 

Thanks!

[beccad777]

Which book is it that everyone is talking about? I am wanting to selective/delay vaccinate my last DS, but I am unsure which ones to get when. He had a strange reaction to his last shots and now I am really leery of giving him more. Thanks!

[Mama Geek]

Well, I have Dr. Sears' book but I'm not sure what to do about something. We have intentionally not given our 4/almost 5 year old any vaccines yet. However, I don't have the intentions of none at all. I just want to be very, very selective. Reading his delayed section of the book doesn't really address delaying THIS long. I think the pieces of the DTaP are important but I really want them separated. I can't seem to decide what he needs at this age.

 

Any help?

 

Also, all the Peds in our town are in two major groups. They have a group mentality also. All of them in the groups seem to have the same opinions and those are very traditional opinions. Any suggestions of how to have that conversation? Who has the control here? Will they just refuse to do what I want?

 

Thanks!

 

I have had pediatricians tell me they will not treat my dd because I will not get her up to date on all her vaccines. As far as I know they can not give a vaccine that you say no to, even though one poster said a nurse tried hard to give a combo vaccine when a single was what the poster wanted. They do apparently have the right to refuse service.

[Mama Geek]

Which book is it that everyone is talking about? I am wanting to selective/delay vaccinate my last DS, but I am unsure which ones to get when. He had a strange reaction to his last shots and now I am really leery of giving him more. Thanks!

 

http://www.askdrsears.com/thevaccinebook/

 

Here is the website for Dr. Sears and you can order his book there or almost anywhere.

[beccad777]

http://www.askdrsears.com/thevaccinebook/

 

Here is the website for Dr. Sears and you can order his book there or almost anywhere.

 

Thanks! :001_smile:

[PinkInTheBlue]

I have had pediatricians tell me they will not treat my dd because I will not get her up to date on all her vaccines. As far as I know they can not give a vaccine that you say no to, even though one poster said a nurse tried hard to give a combo vaccine when a single was what the poster wanted. They do apparently have the right to refuse service.

 

That's what I'm afraid of. Thanks

 

That's also why I haven't kept up with needless well child visits for our 4 year old either. He hasn't been to the dr since he was a baby because he's just never really sick. Also, last time I took him I had to really deflect their questions about vaccines and "why not???". He was only about 6 months old then. I already knew I didn't want to go the route I had with our older boys. I just didn't quite know I'd delay quite this much. I just wish I could find at least one cooperative ped dr around here. So frustrating! Can't these people do some thinking for themselves??? :)

[StaceyinLA]

what you can do if you've delayed to a certain point. He says some you no longer need, some you can give less injections, etc. I know, for instance, that you probably no longer need the HIB at all because it is only an issue for really young children.

 

I gave my son DT only once he was older. He had NOTHING til he got that at 4 or 5. Now, by teen years, my kids were given what they needed to be current for college (though only with Tdap, meningococcal, and maybe MMRs at that point). Other than that - nothing.

 

At 5, I'd feel really comfortable waiting a while longer. He's pretty much past the really worst infant/childhood problems (such as pertussis, HIB strains of meningitis), but not yet to the strains that affect older children and teens.

 

Look back at the book too - I think he has a section that discusses what to do if your child hasn't had anything by this age and what to do to catch them up with your selected vaccines.

[happypamama]

Does anyone know if it is okay to just stop certain vaccines? (Not get the next reccomended dose)

 

 

I don't *think* it is a problem to stop most of them. The child should still have some protection, just maybe not the full recommended protection. I think it could be a problem with a few of them, like the Hep B one -- you'd have to ask the doctor if stopping that one, for instance, would mean having to start it over later.

 

We have done fewer and fewer shots with each child. I've never really been completely comfortable with vaccines, especially the huge number given to infants. With one child, we just did Hib, Prevnar, and DTaP; I knew someone who lost a child to meningitis, which really scared me, so we did Hib and Prevnar because they protect against a couple of common strains of meningitis. Our ped was fine with that, and she felt that being at home and breastfed, our child was at very low risk for most other illnesses. She did think DTaP was good for an infant, though, so I went along with that, though we spread all of them out and delayed them. I think my children are not at great risk for some of the illnesses (like Hep B), and for others, I wasn't comfortable using vaccines cultured in human fetal tissue, and there weren't acceptable alternatives. For some, I'd rather them get the disease, like chicken pox; we can revisit the chicken pox, MMR, etc. vaccines when they're teens, as well. Also, while anecdotes don't equal data and all of that, my child who got the most vaccines (though delayed and spread out) is also the child who tends toward allergies and being hyperactive and such; while all of them are blessedly healthy, the younger two have never had a sick visit at all. It could all be coincidental, of course, but it's always made me wonder.

[scrappyhappymama]

We do the DTaP and Pneummococcal and HiB spread out over the first year. I allow the Pc and HiB together and the DTaP by itself and come in for just shot visits once a months from 2-9 months.

 

We don't do HepB, either as a newborn or later on, although I will revisit as my children approach their teens. We don't do the Rotavirus vaccine, even though two of my children had serious reactions to the disease itself (not the vaccine) and one had to be hospitalized for four days. Even that experience is not enough to convince me to give an newborn a new vaccine. We don't do Chicken Pox or Hep A at all.

 

We delay Polio to after one year old, mostly because I am busy spreading out the other infant immunizations and this one is less important at that age, IMO. We delay the MMR until at least age 3, but my 4 year old hasn't had it yet and I am still debating how to handle this one now that the separate vaccines are no longer available.

 

(and I have always leaned toward anti-vax), was how Dr. Sears, though he presents no real negativity towards vaccinations, presented questions about things like the aluminum overload when babies are getting literally 7 and 8 vaccines at once. I was STUNNED! I mean, the recommendation is for babies not to have more than 50 micrograms at a time, but one round of vaccines at the tender age of 2 months, can have over 1200 micrograms of aluminum! That alone scares me to death, and that is the tip of the iceberg when you look at some of the other ingredients!

 

I just don't believe the repercussions of this have begun to be considered (and I'm just enough of a conspiracy theorist to think that they tell us what they want us to hear).

 

Dr. Sears presents a VERY fair and balanced look at the whole picture, without condmening vaccines as a whole. It makes it much easier for parents to make an informed decision.

 

The aluminum issues illustrates my #1 reason for putting so much effort into delaying and spreading out vaccines, and skipping others. It scares me the issues that are swept under the carpet in the name of "the greater good." I am unwilling to allow my chldren to be experimented upon, and we only allow the vaccines for our children where the potential benefits outweigh the potential risks, or where we are comfortable with the level of risk and see no other drawback to the particular immunization. This is a constantly evolving list for us, and none of my four have had the same combination of vaccines.

 

Well, I have Dr. Sears' book but I'm not sure what to do about something. We have intentionally not given our 4/almost 5 year old any vaccines yet. However, I don't have the intentions of none at all. I just want to be very, very selective. Reading his delayed section of the book doesn't really address delaying THIS long. I think the pieces of the DTaP are important but I really want them separated. I can't seem to decide what he needs at this age.

 

Any help?

 

Also, all the Peds in our town are in two major groups. They have a group mentality also. All of them in the groups seem to have the same opinions and those are very traditional opinions. Any suggestions of how to have that conversation? Who has the control here? Will they just refuse to do what I want?

 

Thanks!

 

Dr. Sears has an online forum, and periodically posts blog updates to include new vaccines and other developments since the book was published. One in particular discusses the fact that the MMR is no longer available in separate components. So he lays out options for parents, from going ahead and accepting the combo shot at an older age, all the way to not doing it at all. One option involves waiting until school age, and I think his discussion of how to proceed with that approach might be helpful to you in deciding how to proceed with your delay-vaccinated child.

 

I can fully appreciate your difficulty in finding a supportive pediatrician. Dr, Sears does list some supportive pediatricians on his site (although we've never been lucky enough to live close to one), and I've had some luck finding referrals on the Mothering "Find your tribe" forum.

 

Which book is it that everyone is talking about? I am wanting to selective/delay vaccinate my last DS, but I am unsure which ones to get when. He had a strange reaction to his last shots and now I am really leery of giving him more. Thanks!

 

Dr. Sears' The Vaccine Book: http://www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Book-Decision-Parenting-Library/dp/0316017507/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303851759&sr=8-1

 

I have had pediatricians tell me they will not treat my dd because I will not get her up to date on all her vaccines. As far as I know they can not give a vaccine that you say no to, even though one poster said a nurse tried hard to give a combo vaccine when a single was what the poster wanted. They do apparently have the right to refuse service.

 

We have been asked to leave a pediatrician's practice (very nicely, but still asked to leave), because the pediatrician did not feel comfortable with our vaccine choices for our children. Also, it's important to consider that some doctors are incentivized or ranked based on their vaccination ratios (vaccinated children/total patient population of the practice), and so parents like us 'hurt' their numbers. One practice we were with for a while required me to sign a waiver to turn down their recommended vaccines. At the time, I didn't mind, but I came to find out she was turning my waivers in to the state, and now years later, I still get vaccine 'reminders' and grave warnings from the state- for that one particular child. I'd rather stay 'off the grid' so to speak as far as my vaccine choices go, and later docs have had no problem with our choices, without requiring me to sign any state forms.

[IrresistibleGrace]

Thank you Sara. :)

 

I have been too afraid to ask the ped, not sure if I can trust her answer! But we will be moving soon and I will be in the market for a new dr. I will have read Dr. Sears' book by then and can question a new ped with a little bit of my own knowledge and research on the issue. Right now I really feel at the mercy of the ped because of my own ignorance. :001_unsure:

[cjzimmer1]

Well, I have Dr. Sears' book but I'm not sure what to do about something. We have intentionally not given our 4/almost 5 year old any vaccines yet. However, I don't have the intentions of none at all. I just want to be very, very selective. Reading his delayed section of the book doesn't really address delaying THIS long. I think the pieces of the DTaP are important but I really want them separated. I can't seem to decide what he needs at this age.

 

Any help?

 

 

Not a ton of help but I'm in the same boat as you. Every now and then the thought crosses my mind that I should revisit the issue and start getting some for the almost 5 year old (2 year old has had none as well) but then I think everything is fine and my original reasons still stand. even when my youngest was 2 months old and they thought she had whopping cough, I still didn't regret my decision about not vaccinating. So I still sit here waiting for a pressing reason why I SHOULD vaccinate and I haven't found any yet.

 

That's what I'm afraid of. Thanks

 

That's also why I haven't kept up with needless well child visits for our 4 year old either. He hasn't been to the dr since he was a baby because he's just never really sick. Also, last time I took him I had to really deflect their questions about vaccines and "why not???". He was only about 6 months old then. I already knew I didn't want to go the route I had with our older boys. I just didn't quite know I'd delay quite this much. I just wish I could find at least one cooperative ped dr around here. So frustrating! Can't these people do some thinking for themselves??? :)

 

When I first said I didn't want shots, my doctor and I had a discussion about my thoughts and why I felt the way I did. She agreed with many of my points and mentioned a couple of shots that she thought I should research more because she felt they were more important than the rest but totally understood if I didn't want any. I had to sign a waiver form and they put it in my file. My kids now have a different primary care doctor in the same clinic. Our first well care visit with him was something like, "I see you have a no vaccination waiver in your chart, is that still what you want?" Me: "yes", him: "okay" and he put a check in the chart and not another word was mentioned. Each time I go for a well visit (which isn't often) I get asked the same question (along with all the other mundane questions, about eating, sleeping, pooping and development). It doesn't seem to phase them at all that I've chosen not to vaccinate.

 

We have been asked to leave a pediatrician's practice (very nicely, but still asked to leave), because the pediatrician did not feel comfortable with our vaccine choices for our children. Also, it's important to consider that some doctors are incentivized or ranked based on their vaccination ratios (vaccinated children/total patient population of the practice), and so parents like us 'hurt' their numbers. One practice we were with for a while required me to sign a waiver to turn down their recommended vaccines. At the time, I didn't mind, but I came to find out she was turning my waivers in to the state, and now years later, I still get vaccine 'reminders' and grave warnings from the state- for that one particular child. I'd rather stay 'off the grid' so to speak as far as my vaccine choices go, and later docs have had no problem with our choices, without requiring me to sign any state forms.

 

I've gotten those same letters. I never really thought about why I got them. I'm sure it is because of the waiver. I guess it's never bothered me, I just toss them in the garbage. Although I only get them for one of my non-vaxed kids (the one I refused anything in the hospital) the one who had the hospital vaxes (because I didn't know better but hasn't had anything since) has never gotten a letter, so maybe it's from the hospitals documentation rather than the doctor's office. But I can understand why you would prefer that this wasn't recorded at all.

[Carrie12345]

Not to hijack, but does anyone know of good sites/resources for finding selective/delayed-friendly doctors? Our peds won't take patients who aren't up to date by age 2, which puts a couple of my kids doctor-less, and they're the kids who will be needing appointments soon!

[RainbowSprinkles]

Not to hijack, but does anyone know of good sites/resources for finding selective/delayed-friendly doctors? Our peds won't take patients who aren't up to date by age 2, which puts a couple of my kids doctor-less, and they're the kids who will be needing appointments soon!

 

 

I believe the Dr. Sears website has a list of doctors.

[CalicoKat]

No rotovirus, chicken pox, hep B, meningitis (at least till college), HPV, MMR, or flu shots. The others I'm on the fence about. DD7 is fully vaccinated up till her 2 year old shots. DD4 is fully vaccinated up to her 9 month shots. After that, I began to research. I didn't like what I found so we stopped. I'm unsure of what to get the new baby, but I know it will not get the ones listed above. I'm still researching the others.

 

we're a no vaccinate family until last summer. The kids that went to camp got the meningitis and an updated tetnus shot. Primarily because of the type of activities kids do and the lack of cleanliness and exposure to horsey environments.

[Carrie12345]

I believe the Dr. Sears website has a list of doctors.

 

Sigh. 1 listing for my entire state. A 69 minute drive may be worth it though. Actually, that isn't all that much longer than our current drive, but it will require taking the turnpike!

[scrappyhappymama]

Sigh. 1 listing for my entire state. A 69 minute drive may be worth it though. Actually, that isn't all that much longer than our current drive, but it will require taking the turnpike!

 

Check the "find your tribe" forum on mothering.com also. Some doctors don't want to be listed on Dr Sear's site because they don't want the hassle from other pro-vax doctors. So there may very well be other supportive doctors closer to you. I was lucky in one place we lived to find a pediatrician who selectively vax'd her own kids! So I knew she was friendly. :001_smile:

[laundrycrisis]

This Yahoo group may help:

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AP_Doctor_Referral/

 

 

I did not selectively vax until our 2nd child.

 

I delayed all until he was 4. Then I had him get the MMR because I really do not want him getting measles. I also have done the first two DTAPs because 1. I was really worried about tetanus because he is always getting cut with dirty things outside and 2. our ped wanted him tested for pertussis every time he got a bad cough due to his unvaxed status and her concerns about pertussis, so I started that series. I have also done the first two Hep B and IPV. On the Hep B I know a lot of adults have reactions to this. I feel there may be a link between the adult reactions and prior diseases they have had (some anecdotal input from our ped here.) I decided I would rather he get this series done before he has had anything than have to get it done later when the risk for reactions may be higher. He had actual chicken pox when he was two so I can always get the titer done for that and he will not need to get that vaccine. I skipped the HIB vaccine because the requirement for it here ends at age 5. So ultimately of the state recommended vaccines he will only skip varicella and HIB. Our ped does not recommend the pneumococcal vaccine (Prevnar) or flu vaccines, and they aren't required, and I don't want them so those will also be skipped.

[beaners]

Check the "find your tribe" forum on mothering.com also. Some doctors don't want to be listed on Dr Sear's site because they don't want the hassle from other pro-vax doctors. So there may very well be other supportive doctors closer to you. I was lucky in one place we lived to find a pediatrician who selectively vax'd her own kids! So I knew she was friendly. :001_smile:

 

Check there, but check with the pediatrician too. There is a pediatrician around here that we chose specifically because he was recommended on a couple local groups. I know that some of the members recommended him on the mothering forums also. He barely tolerates anything less than the normal vaccine schedule. I felt absolutely blindsided during my first visit when I found out his actual preferences. We have stayed at the practice because we like other things about him, but I've found that sometimes people recommend doctors who aren't really anti-vacc.

 

Our family doesn't do HepB for babies, although my children can choose to get it later on if they'd like. We don't do rotavirus. We do polio later on. We do Hib, pneumococcal, and DTaP at approximately the standard times. No chicken pox vaccine unless they haven't contracted it by 8 or 9. We do MMR around 2. We don't do flu. I'm probably forgetting something because I'm doing this off the top of my head.

 

We don't really do a drastically different schedule. We just skip a few and push a few back for a while. I try to weigh the risk compared to the specific need for our family. It's not a problem if I need to be home with someone for a few days because I'm home every day. We have an environment where tetanus could be a risk to any of my children old enough to walk. I'm just plain scared of pertussis, so I'll admit to vaccinating for that out of fear. We don't come into contact with many people from outside of the country, so I'm comfortable letting polio slide for a few years.

 

I don't do enough vaccines for most doctors and parents, but I'm also sacrificing my children according to the staunchest anti-vaccers. It's an interesting place to be.

[Peela]

I would not have vaccinated at all. Dh was very strongly into selective, delayed vaccination, so I did do it. IN my case, I just felt instinctively that my kids would be fine with vaccinations- especially as they were still breastfeeding at the well over 12 months each of them received them.

 

I think we did the standard MMR, polio, tetanus, pertussis when they were over a year old.

Again when they were a few years old.

 

When they were around 12 I was influenced to give them hep B which I regretted but then, what the heck- they are both healthy kids and have never got a reaction from any vaccines. They also got a tetanus booster. My doctor tested their antibodies for MMR and they were still positive- good doctor in that respect- she didnt want to vaccinate them unnecessarily. She is a selective vaccinator herself and her son is the same age as my dd.

 

The only thing I regret with my dd is having her vaccinated for measles. If she had had measles instead, she would be able to pass the antibodies to her breastfed child. Vaccinations do not allow viable antibodies to pass through breastmilk. And measles is not generally too bad a disease. ALthough- I did have to really force my kids to get chickenpox when they were 11/12 by making them play with a kid who had it- because I felt they were getting too old not to have had it. My older was pretty sick with it. They don't tend to get sick easily so maybe its good they were vaccinated since they probably wouldnt have got it as kids, naturally.

 

The thing with vaccinations is....****ed if you do and ****ed if you dont. I probably am more inclined not to vaccinate- dh was more inclined to, but definitely not in that first year when their immune system is just building. We never bothered with the latest ones.

But my kids, my situation. I knew they had healthy immune systems and my mother's instinct has always told me either way is fine for them. They can handle the vaccines.

 

No matter how much research you do, its hard to settle with this issue 100%, so there is risk involved either way. Its worth researching what they do in other countries. The U.S. seems to give their kids a lot more standard vaccinations than many other countries, without consideration for the effect on the immune system of receiving so many.

[FaithManor]

Severe, life threatening immune responses to vaccines run in my side of the family. I was fully vaxed without problems, my brother was a nightmare and it's a wonder that the docs didn't kill him because my mom was unaware of her rights at the time. My brother's youngest son dearly died from his DTaP at 18 months - it was the only one my brother would let him have besides the polio. The ER doc would not listen to my brother about the family history and the ignorant punk attending wouldn't contact the pediatrician's office though it was still open. After holding him down for a spinal tap, the diagnosis was, "oops, vax reaction". GRRRRRR.....

 

I am not anti-vax. I am pro-delayed schedule and not the newest vaxes because they seem to have come to the market too quickly which means, not enough research.

 

Dd also reacts to Hep. We never wanted her to have Hep B, but she works in the medical profession and paramedics cannot opt out in Michigan...no one wants to hire them or even let them do their clinicals without it. So, she had the series, but she was injected at the hospital clinic and then escorted to an ER room to wait for the inevitable. It was scary and though angry that she had to go through it and terrified of permanent damage or even losing her, I was secretly proud of her for being willing to take the risk because of how much she loves working in medicine.

 

Research, research, research and also take as many non-standard medical histories as possible from relatives. As it turns out, when vaccines were first coming on the horizon, my dad had the polio vaccine and spent three days in the hospital with the doctor telling grandpa and grandma to prepare for the worst. My mom never knew this before taking my brother for his first round of vaxes or she might have been better prepared.

 

I'm not trying to scare you at all and again I am not anti-vax. I'm a huge fan of the polio and tetnus vaccines. But there is a small subset of kids that can't handle them and it's hard to determine who is in that subset. So, you may be able to get a clearer picture of this through family research.

 

Also, be aware that a newly vaccinated child should not be around a cancer patient for a couple of weeks and especially if that cancer patient is undergoing radiation or chemo. Ds stepped on a nail and needed to have his tetnus updated...they gave him Dtap instead of straight tetnus, and since they were vaxing for communicable diseases instead of just tetnus and grandpa's immune system was severely compromised, guess who couldn't to Florida to see grandpa one last time before he died. I didn't find out it was DTaP until I happened to see it on his chart after the nurse had given him the shot. You have to watch out for things like that because most docs and nurses do not ask about the possibility of your child coming into close contact with a severely immune compromised person.

 

Research, it's the best thing and only you can know ultimately what is best to do. No judgments here.

 

Faith

[AngieW in Texas]

We did IPV and DT. For college, we are doing bacterial meningitis.

[ocelotmom]

There was an interesting article on medscape the other day:

 

About three quarters of physicians think parents are acting responsibly when they question whether their child should be vaccinated, and roughly two thirds do not feel disrespected when parents disregard their recommendations.

 

At the same time, many physicians are taking steps to protect themselves. Forty-four percent always or often require parents to sign a waiver form if they decline vaccination, and 1 in 10 always or often dismiss such families from their practice if they refuse vaccines in the primary series.

 

(article is at http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/741122 but you may have to be registered to see it.)

 

I find it comforting that so many doctors feel that parents are acting responsibly in questioning! I understand CYA, and am ok with signing a waiver.

 

And frankly, if a doctor is going to disrespect my autonomy as a parent enough to kick me out of their practice for refusing the rotavirus vax for a healthy, breastfed, stay-at-home infant or HepB for a newborn when I've had the HepB series + titers drawn myself, then I don't want them for a doctor anyways! I would not feel safe entrusting my child's care to such a doctor.

 

I wish those docs would learn that you can win more flies with honey. My favorite doctor for my kids shared his views (when we asked for his thoughts) that some vaccines are really beneficial, and others not so much. We ended up going with the vaccines he felt were important because he came across as educated, experienced, and not driven by an ulterior motive (CYA, profit). If he'd simply said "They're all important regardless of personal circumstances because the CDC says so", we likely would have skipped them entirely.

Edited April 27, 2011 by ocelotmom

[Alice]

First the disclaimer, I'm a pediatrician. I always open these threads and then kind of regret it. Without getting into the issues about the vaccines themselves I wanted to respond to a few things.

 

First, we don't make money on vaccines. We just don't. I'm sure many of you won't believe me but we don't. Insurance companies typically reimburse us for what the vaccine costs, sometimes slightly more or even in some cases less. When you factor in things like syringes and alcohol swabs and disposal and other overhead, it's not where we make our money. Some people will say it's a racket to get people to come in for well checks. Personally, I feel strongly that well checks are important even if you don't vaccinate. I've found many things on well checks that the parents were not aware of or concerned about before the visit. Heart conditions, severe scoliosis, kidney disease, autism, eye issues, speech issues, craniosynostosis (premature closing of skull sutures), growth problems due to true hormonal issues, polycystic ovarian syndrome, severe cholesterol disease, infantile spasms (a severe seizure disorder), deafness, etc. These weren't parents who are unaware or uninvolved in their child's health. It was just that we caught the issue early or they just hadn't known it was abnormal. We don't make much money on check-ups either. If we really wanted to just make the most money we'd only see sick kids and do a lot of procedures on them. That's where the insurance companies pay well.

 

Can't these people do some thinking for themselves??? :)

 

I know you put the smiley-face, but I found this a bit offensive. I do think for myself. I'm not part of some vast conspiracy or too stupid to understand vaccines. I've read Dr. Sears's book on vaccines, I've read the What Your Doctor Might not Tell You about Vaccines book, I've read both of Jenny McCarthy's books. I've been to all the websites, including the NVIC website. I've read Andrew Wakefield's original paper. I've also read a lot on the other side and on my own reading and understanding of the issue I passionately believe in the effectiveness, safety and importance of vaccines. You can disagree with me but don't say I'm not thinking for myself.

 

We have been asked to leave a pediatrician's practice (very nicely, but still asked to leave), because the pediatrician did not feel comfortable with our vaccine choices for our children. Also, it's important to consider that some doctors are incentivized or ranked based on their vaccination ratios (vaccinated children/total patient population of the practice), and so parents like us 'hurt' their numbers. One practice we were with for a while required me to sign a waiver to turn down their recommended vaccines. At the time, I didn't mind, but I came to find out she was turning my waivers in to the state, and now years later, I still get vaccine 'reminders' and grave warnings from the state- for that one particular child. I'd rather stay 'off the grid' so to speak as far as my vaccine choices go, and later docs have had no problem with our choices, without requiring me to sign any state forms.

 

We ask our patients to sign waivers also and we do not do anything with them but put them into the chart as a legal protection for us. Most peds I know do the same thing. The waiver is just legal protection and not being reported to anyone.

 

Check there, but check with the pediatrician too. There is a pediatrician around here that we chose specifically because he was recommended on a couple local groups. I know that some of the members recommended him on the mothering forums also. He barely tolerates anything less than the normal vaccine schedule. I felt absolutely blindsided during my first visit when I found out his actual preferences. We have stayed at the practice because we like other things about him, but I've found that sometimes people recommend doctors who aren't really anti-vacc.

 

 

This happened to us too. We got listed on a site as friendly towards those who are anti-vacc. In reality although we accept patients who don't vaccinate we are all strong believers in vaccines. I have no idea how we got listed.

 

 

No matter how much research you do, its hard to settle with this issue 100%, so there is risk involved either way. Its worth researching what they do in other countries. The U.S. seems to give their kids a lot more standard vaccinations than many other countries, without consideration for the effect on the immune system of receiving so many.

 

I don't know the vaccine schedule of many other countries but I don't think this is entirely true. Here is a link to vaccine schedules in Europe and while there are variations many are quite similar to ours. http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/vaccination.html Here is Canada. http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/is-cv/#a Australia: http://www.immunise.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/nips2.

 

In many other countries they also give more combined shots, at least I know they have options for combined shots that we don't have.

 

Also, be aware that a newly vaccinated child should not be around a cancer patient for a couple of weeks and especially if that cancer patient is undergoing radiation or chemo. Ds stepped on a nail and needed to have his tetnus updated...they gave him Dtap instead of straight tetnus, and since they were vaxing for communicable diseases instead of just tetnus and grandpa's immune system was severely compromised, guess who couldn't to Florida to see grandpa one last time before he died. I didn't find out it was DTaP until I happened to see it on his chart after the nurse had given him the shot. You have to watch out for things like that because most docs and nurses do not ask about the possibility of your child coming into close contact with a severely immune compromised person.

 

Pertussis is not a live vaccine, there should be no issue with someone with chemo being around someone who has received a pertussis vaccine.

 

I find it comforting at so many doctors feel that parents are acting responsibly in questioning! I understand CYA, and am ok with signing a waiver.

 

 

You are right that the waiver is mostly CYA, but in this legal climate I feel that is absolutely necessary. We had a case recently where an unvaccinated child got Hib meningitis (not our practice but the hospital where I see patients). One of the first comments from the mother was that if "the pediatrician had told her it could be this bad she would have vaccinated." That may have been the comment of a mom having normal regrets, but as a doctor it's the kind of comment that makes you want to make sure to have that waiver in the chart proving that you had the discussion.

 

Many people made comments about doctors asking them to leave the practice. Part of this is also CYA but it's also concern for the safety of the other patients. I hear a lot from parents who don't vaccinate the argument that their child isn't putting anyone at risk and in fact that their child is more at risk if anything. This is simply not true. Vaccines work if a certain amount of the population is vaccinated. As the vaccine rate falls disease will become more prevalent. There have been/are ongoing several measles and pertussis outbreaks in this country. I know a lot of people feel that they have to make decisions for their own child over the rest of the community. However, as a physician I also have to make sure I am protecting all the kids in my practice.

 

What if an unvaccinated child contracts pertussis and gives it to a 2 week old who hasn't been able to get the vaccine yet in my waiting room? The recent measles outbreak in California was spread through contact from an unvaccinated child who had traveled out of the country and gotten measles. He spread it to among other a 10 month old who wasn't old enough for the vaccine in a doctors' waiting room, in fact, it was Dr. Sears' waiting room. The child was hospitalized for three days and ultimately recovered. However, what if in my waiting room it was my patient on chemo or chronic steroids or post lung transplant or newborn?

 

As much as I have a responsibility to respect the opinion of parent who choose not to vaccinate, I also have a responsibility to provide as safe an environment as possible for all my patients, in particular the most vulnerable. I think a lot of doctors are becoming more and more concerned about this as unvaccinated rates rise. It used to be that someone could safely say we just don't see these diseases much but that is changing rapidly. My fear is that we will start to see Diphtheria or an increase in invasive Hib disease or even Polio. I've traveled and seen Polio and we have many patients in our practice/area who also travel to areas where Polio is still a large concern.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Alice

[ocelotmom]

You are right that the waiver is mostly CYA, but in this legal climate I feel that is absolutely necessary.

 

My comment was not meant in a derogatory way, by the way. Of course you have to CYA by documenting that appropriate education was given, and that is why I have no problem signing a waiver to that effect. If I make a decision that differs from my doctor's advice, I don't want my doctor held responsible for it.

[Alice]

My comment was not meant in a derogatory way, by the way. Of course you have to CYA by documenting that appropriate education was given, and that is why I have no problem signing a waiver to that effect. If I make a decision that differs from my doctor's advice, I don't want my doctor held responsible for it.

 

I didn't think you meant it in a bad way. I hate practicing defensive medicine but unfortunately sometimes it's necessary.