Teens who go "awry"

[Heather in Neverland]

Define "awry" however you wish... and this may be a tough question but...if you have a teen or young adult child who has gone "awry" ... and hindsight being 20/20 as they say... can you point to a "pivotal" moment when things started to go wrong for that child? If you could go back in time and change one thing that might send their life in a different direction, could you pick out that moment?

 

Personal example: my youngest brother (who is now 35 yo) is a raging alcoholic, drug-user, cheated on his wife constantly, can't hold down a job, been arrested several times for drunk driving, drunk and disorderly, domestic violence, etc.

 

He is an absolute anomaly in my family. The proverbial black sheep and it breaks my heart. When I look back at his life and when things started to go awry I can pick at least one big decision my parents made that they would change if they could (and they have said so).

 

My brother is an amazingly talented singer and musician. At 15yo he and his friends put together a "garage band" and entered a battle of the bands contest. They won. They got a small recording contract and the next thing you know this group of 15 and 16 yo kids were playing in bars and other concert venues all over the place every weekend.

 

Well you can imagine the type of people he spent his time with and the lifestyle it lead to. You can't let a 15yo hang out in a bar til all hours every weekend and think nothing bad is going to happen. :glare: The drinking, the drugs, the girls...it's been all downhill since then. He now qualifies as a "has-been" who has squandered his talent and reduced himself to a cliche. And my mom says if she could change ONE thing she would never have let him enter that world (at least while she still had a say in his life as a young teen).

 

It scares me...the idea that as parents we can make one error, one crucial mistake and our children's lives can spiral down a path we never intended. It's not so much about self-condemnation as it is being more discerning and taking even seemingly small decisions seriously. I know we can't predict everything. But I look at my 3 kids and think how important every little decision is and am I making the right ones?

 

Or maybe I am just upset because I talked to him last night and he is still a mess. :confused:

Edited December 29, 2010 by Heather in NC

[LibraryLover]

Unless it was lethal, I would never think one mistake would be the end of anything except that one mistake.

 

One club gig changed his whole life for the worse?

Edited December 29, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Heather in Neverland]

One club gig changed who he was supposed to be?

 

I don't know. What I know is that one club gig lead to two which lead to three and so on. One drink at a club gig while hanging out with people far older than him lead to two drinks which lead to three and then to his first joint and then to his first hit of acid and so on. And all these things took place at the bars or after hours when the gig was over, etc.

 

If a 15yo had never been playing in a bar til 2am to begin with maybe....????

[NanceXToo]

And they could have told him no, they weren't going to approve that lifestyle, and he could have been crushed and furious that they were getting in the way of his dream, and he could have totally rebelled, and started hanging out with the wrong people and doing the wrong things anyway...

 

I agree that one mistake in your teens should not be the end of one's whole life. And at some point regardless of what happened or didn't happen in your teens, you just man or woman up and be a grown up.

 

For whatever reason, your brother isn't doing that. But I really doubt it's all because he was in a band or a bar or whatever in his teens and that if your parents had only done that one thing differently he'd have this amazing life now...

 

With that said- I do know what you mean. I have a brother who has battled drug abuse, too. And it's natural for parents to question and worry whether they are making the right decisions for their kids. But we can only do our best- and at some point they have to take the reins and make their own choices, regardless of which ones we made or didn't make or let them make or didn't let them make when they were young.

 

P.S. At his age I was drinking too...and sneaking into bars not long after...and a few other things, too. But I'm currently not a drug abuser or an alcoholic or an adulterer or an ex convict or any of those things. I just don't think it can be chalked up to something so simple. But who knows!

[LibraryLover]

I would never send a 15 yr old off to that without an adult.

 

Lots of young people lose their heads, but many with strong parental support do not.

[NanceXToo]

I would never send a 15 yr old off to that without an adult.

 

Lots of young people lose their heads, but many with strong parental support do not.

 

True, too! I don't think I'd have denied my 15 y/o the opportunity- but I'd have been there with him at those gigs!

[Trish]

Define "awry" however you wish... and this may be a tough question but...if you have a teen or young adult child who has gone "awry" ... and hindsight being 20/20 as they say... can you point to a "pivotal" moment when things started to go wrong for that child? If you could go back in time and change one thing that might send their life in a different direction, could you pick out that moment?

 

Personal example: my youngest brother (who is now 35 yo) is a raging alcoholic, drug-user, cheated on his wife constantly, can't hold down a job, been arrested several times for drunk driving, drunk and disorderly, domestic violence, etc.

 

He is an absolute anomaly in my family. The proverbial black sheep and it breaks my heart. When I look back at his life and when things started to go awry I can pick at least one big decision my parents made that they would change if they could (and they have said so).

 

My brother is an amazingly talented singer and musician. At 15yo he and his friends put together a "garage band" and entered a battle of the bands contest. They won. They got a small recording contract and the next thing you know this group of 15 and 16 yo kids were playing in bars and other concert venues all over the place every weekend.

 

Well you can imagine the type of people he spent his time with and the lifestyle it lead to. You can't let a 15yo hang out in a bar til all hours every weekend and think nothing bad is going to happen. :glare: The drinking, the drugs, the girls...it's been all downhill since then. He now qualifies as a "has-been" who has squandered his talent and reduced himself to a cliche. And my mom says if she could change ONE thing she would never have let him enter that world (at least while she still had a say in his life as a young teen).

 

It scares me...the idea that as parents we can make one error, one crucial mistake and our children's lives can spiral down a path we never intended. It's not so much about self-condemnation as it is being more discerning and taking even seemingly small decisions seriously. I know we can't predict everything. But I look at my 3 kids and think how important every little decision is and am I making the right ones?

 

Or maybe I am just upset because I talked to him last night and he is still a mess. :confused:

 

So sad! Did they ever explain why they allowed this? Didn't want to squelch his talent? Afraid to say no? Didn't see anything wrong with it? Thought the bar manager would supervise, somehow?

Edited December 29, 2010 by Trish

[snipsnsnailsx5]

I went awry as a teen. It started with hanging out with the bad crowd. My parents didn't let me go to these friends' houses. I didn't have much after school life unless I picked better friends. Soon I started sneaking out of the house. Eventually I got pregnant at 16.

 

Where did it start? My parents were not overly religious, but I still was baptized and had the fear of God. I could have gotten into a lot more trouble then I did, but some part of me held back. I was pretty reckless when I started have s*x at the age of 16. But beyond that I didn't do much that got me into trouble.

 

So what happened? I could blame it on my parents getting separated for awhile. I could blame it on my mom's bipolar disease that went untreated until I was already gone and out of the house. I could blame it on a lot of things...but sometimes parents can do everything right and still a child goes "awry".

 

The best thing that you as a parent can do is to be loving, supportive, and consistent. Make sure they know from an early age where the boundaries lie. Already with homeschooling we are one-step ahead of our kiddos by being able to see them every day and know exactly what they're doing and who they are interacting with. ;)

I really think that friends make a BIG difference with kids that go awry. Peer pressure is brutal.

 

That's one of the main reasons we decided to homeschool our kids. One less thing to worry about, ya know? The high schools are horrid these days. :(

 

Also, thought of something else...open communication. MAKE sure your child knows that they can come to you about anything without fear of major trouble. Open communication can prevent a lot of things from happening if the child feels they can come to you with questions, things going on or things they've seen....etc.

[zaichiki]

I don't know. What I know is that one club gig lead to two which lead to three and so on. One drink at a club gig while hanging out with people far older than him lead to two drinks which lead to three and then to his first joint and then to his first hit of acid and so on. And all these things took place at the bars or after hours when the gig was over, etc.

 

If a 15yo had never been playing in a bar til 2am to begin with maybe....????

 

Maybe he'd find other negative influences.

 

We can't keep our children from interacting with the world. Some kids have more addictive personalities. Some seem to be born leaders while others are born followers. I have children who are so different from one another (like everyone here, of course!). One is easily influenced by others and one is not. I do not believe the difference is environmental.

 

It sounds like your brother made a whole slew of bad choices. I don't think I'd blame the gigs and/or the bars. Either he didn't know the choices he was making weren't good ones, or he isn't very capable of thinking things through before he acts.

 

It could be that his brain is wired differently. Is he more impulsive? Doesn't consider consequences? Less able to think about others' feelings? Maybe he was just "made that way." Even if your parents had not allowed him contact with the negative influences at 15, he probably would have found them anyway.

 

Please talk to your parents about seeing this another way. It would be horrible if they continued to blame themselves for his life choices.

[bookfiend]

I have a similar brother story, and there were a few key things in his teen years that could have been handled differently by my parents. However, IMO, none of that excuses the life he continues to choose to lead 25 years later. Lots of bitter recriminations, lots of victim thinking, lots of anger - and all the while, I wonder; why doesn't he just change.

[Trish]

We could probably keep them out of bars at 15, though! I'm thinking a lot of parents think their kids will never be influenced by what's around them. Somehow. Some kids will abuse "freedom," some won't. But you never know!

[zaichiki]

So what happened? I could blame it on my parents getting separated for awhile. I could blame it on my mom's bipolar disease that went untreated until I was already gone and out of the house. I could blame it on a lot of things...but sometimes parents can do everything right and still a child goes "awry".

 

I agree.

 

My parents separated when I was very young and my mother had bipolar that wasn't treated properly while I was growing up and I was a goody-two-shoes.

 

I don't think it's environmental.

 

I honestly think kids come with different personalities.

[snipsnsnailsx5]

Oh and as for your brother...what a sad story. I'm so sorry. : ( :grouphug:

 

I don't think we can even guess our selves which of our choices may lead to something like this.

 

It wasn't just one choice though, but rather probably a string of things that had to occur together for this to happen.

 

True, it probably wasn't best to let a 15 yr old go play in bars. I would have wanted to support my child, but I think maybe a good compromise would be to find other venues, where *I* was always along with him (or another responsible adult) and ban bars all together.

 

:grouphug:

[Sophia]

Define "awry" however you wish... and this may be a tough question but...if you have a teen or young adult child who has gone "awry" ... and hindsight being 20/20 as they say... can you point to a "pivotal" moment when things started to go wrong for that child? If you could go back in time and change one thing that might send their life in a different direction, could you pick out that moment?

 

 

I don't think there is one moment that makes a person's life go awry, as you say, but a window of time.

 

My ds had the potential to take the "wrong" path during his middle school years, and if dh and I had been more permissive in our parenting, I have no doubt he would be a different person today.

 

Too much freedom is poison for teens.

[Renee in NC]

I don't think there is one moment that makes a person's life go awry, as you say, but a window of time.

 

My ds had the potential to take the "wrong" path during his middle school years, and if dh and I had been more permissive in our parenting, I have no doubt he would be a different person today.

 

Too much freedom is poison for teens.

 

I agree that too much freedom is poison, but so is too much control - it's a fine line we walk as parents. You can't keep them from everything and then send them out to the world. However, you can't just turn them out into the world without guidance, either. I am familiar with a situation where a teen was not allowed to make decisions of his own until he was 18 and then the parents wonder why he has made the choices he has? My dh was the same way - he wasn't allowed to do anything on his own until he left for the Army and his choices afterwards show clearly that he was "drunk" with his new found freedom.

 

I went "awry" as a teen, too. I was one of those who was on her own at 12 because my parents pretty much "checked out" on me. That was the *end* of the list, though - there are a whole slew of things that show up on the "causes for kids at risk" list.:tongue_smilie: Playing in bars at 15? I was doing shots of tequila with my stepmother (wife #4) when I was 14:001_huh:.

 

Really, though, I had to pull myself together and get on with life. I can't blame my parents now - what good does that do except give me an excuse to screw up? I have used it as a warning of what *not* to do, but also keep in mind my dh's upbringing and try not to do that, too.

[Mommyof4ks]

I don't have teens, but my parents had teenage foster children for 10 years after I became and adult. Some of those kids came from TERRIBLE situations incest, drugs, violence and so on. Personally after what some of them went through I am amazed they were even able to function, but we still hear from some of them now as 20 somethings and regardless of age and circumstance when they came to my parents' house there is a wide range of 'how they turned out'. As PPs said, at some point some people man up and some don't. I really cannot imagine that one decision could lead a person down a path of destruction through adulthood. I know as parents we want to think that we can control our kids and their future, but we can't, we don't have that power. We can do is love them and pray for them.

[jld]

I think it's a sign of a good conscience when parents wonder what they could have done, if anything, for a child who has gotten himself into serious trouble. Even just the willingness to discuss with the child, offer an apology, and most importantly, be open to hearing how maybe things could have been done differently, can be very healing. I think that an attitude of, "What can we do now to help?" could go nicely along with that.

 

I think it's helpful when people share their experiences here, even when there is sharp disagreement on the experiences. You never know when you might reread a thread later and think, wow, now I finally know where they were coming from . . .

[OrganicAnn]

I think it is a combination of factors. Some people have a predilection for addictions and it will be easier for them to become addicted to something. Same with mental illness, depression etc. Life events might contribute or hamper the likelihood of going down that bad path. I heard recently that they think they've found where promiscuity has a genetic component.

 

There is no way to know if a parent or kid took a different path, if they wouldn't still end up with the same result.

[Renee in NC]

I think it is a combination of factors. Some people have a predilection for addictions and it will be easier for them to become addicted to something. Same with mental illness, depression etc. Life events might contribute or hamper the likelihood of going down that bad path. I heard recently that they think they've found where promiscuity has a genetic component.

 

There is no way to know if a parent or kid took a different path, if they wouldn't still end up with the same result.

 

Definitely. If it were simply early exposure and consumption of alcohol, I would be an alcoholic. I am not, though, and rarely drink at all as an adult.

[Rebel]

I think the personality of the child plays a bigger factor than "where" he is hanging out. I also think it is irresponsible for an adult to blame the mistakes they are STILL making on something their parents should have done differently. I'm not saying your brother is doing this, but I have known a few people like this.

 

For what it's worth, my son plays in a couple of garage bands and three bands at the local community college. Both garage bands and one of the CC bands have played at bars. Since he is not yet 18, I usually still have to attend. You would not believe how many bars (and one hooka lounge) I've visited in the last year. It is just soooo much fun to be at a gig that starts at 11pm on a Thursday night... (The CC commercial music department does not have classes on Fridays, but I still do.)

 

I have not found any of his band mates to be bad influences.

[Ruthie]

Not one decision per say, but my gut told me to tell my sis to not go away to college. She was one of those kids who should have stayed at home with the family support surrounding her until marriage.

 

For every kid, it's different. I went away, as all the sibs and we're fine, but she should not have. I felt it in my gut. My parents struggled with it. Everyone else told us to let her go away. That it would be a wonderful growing experience. It changed her life for the worse, for the rest of her life. Those people offering advice then are not around anymore. But here we are, constantly picking up the pieces left behind.

 

I'm sorry about the pain your brother has caused your family

[AnitaMcC]

True, too! I don't think I'd have denied my 15 y/o the opportunity- but I'd have been there with him at those gigs!

 

This is what we do with our Dd.

 

She plays guitar in a metal band. She is 15, the rest of the band is over 21... some way over. She is never doing anything with the band without Dh or I there. But then again.. she has to get there and we have to drive her... and we are not driving an hour one way (or more) and just drop her off. And we are not going to let her go alone with 5 men....

 

So Dh and/or I are right there with her...

[MorganClassicalPrep]

hm. I'm torn on this. I definitely am a believer in the whole, every moment leads to a certain path, and if a different decision was made at any instant in time, things could be very different.

 

However... at some point, one can no longer look back on the past/their childhood, and should take responsibility for themselves in the present. And I'm saying this as someone who lived with drug/alcohol addiction prominent in my family and struggled with it myself, so I do understand what it's like.

 

(With that said, I can look back at a single moment and see where my relationship with my mother changed forever. There was something I revealed to her, she was unsupportive, and from that moment on I felt... well. Many things, none good.)

[AnitaMcC]

I have a similar brother story, and there were a few key things in his teen years that could have been handled differently by my parents. However, IMO, none of that excuses the life he continues to choose to lead 25 years later. Lots of bitter recriminations, lots of victim thinking, lots of anger - and all the while, I wonder; why doesn't he just change.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Joanne]

FWIW, I don't believe that alcoholics are made. I believe they are born. Having worked in bars (sober) for the past 3 years, there are plenty of bands, and regulars who drink normally. Alcoholism is made when alcohol is put in a body that is predisposed.

 

Street drugs are a different story.

[myfunnybunch]

As parents, we have to do the best we can with what we've got and trust God.

 

It's easy to try to pinpoint what went wrong, or to believe that every choice we make for our children will prevent bad choices because that gives us the illusion of control. The reality is that we set them up for success the best we can by making mindful choices for and with them, then we pray that they make good ones on their own.

 

We can't do any more than that precisely because we *can't* go back and undo any moments.

 

:grouphug: I am sorry about your brother.

 

Cat

[Trish]

This is what we do with our Dd.

 

She plays guitar in a metal band. She is 15, the rest of the band is over 21... some way over. She is never doing anything with the band without Dh or I there. But then again.. she has to get there and we have to drive her... and we are not driving an hour one way (or more) and just drop her off. And we are not going to let her go alone with 5 men....

 

So Dh and/or I are right there with her...

 

I guess it's the practices that would worry me.

[katemary63]

I would change several things about my son's childhood. I don't know that they would have changed that fact that as an adult, he chose to reject his faith, but at least I would feel like I had done all I could to direct his path while I was "on watch." At this point, I know I failed him in several ways.

 

1. I would not have let him attend the PS that he did. Years afterward, I heard all the stories...like how when he was in 6th grade, the 8th grade girls would lift their shirts (bras and all) and call his name in the hall. He'd turn to look and get an eyefull.

 

2. I would have put him on ADD meds. We thought avoiding meds was best for him. Turns out it was quite the opposite (his opinion also - he's now on them). I think if he had been on meds, he'd have been able to make better decisions all along that would have led him to other better decisions or away from bad ones. Once he saw himself as a failure at school, he was more willing to actually become one in other areas of his life as well.

 

3. I would have monitored his time away from home more closely. Turns out his best friend for 6 years didn't have quite the quality parents that I thought. They seemed good to me, but had I dug a little deeper and asked more questions, I would have found out some things. Like the fact that this friend was given all his dad's old playboys. So my son grew up reading playboy at his friend's house. (Makes me sick to think about it) Or the fact that these people were prejudiced against African Americans. I had NO IDEA! And now my son mimicks some of their thinking. (Not entirely, but some - breaks my heart)

 

4. If I could change anything about myself as his mom, I would have not yelled so much. It hurt our relationship. Yes, he loves me now, but at the time, it hurt my ability to communicate with him, even when I wasn't yelling. He learned to stop listening to me. And at the same time he was NOT listening to me, he WAS listening to people who didn't really love him or have the truth to share with him.

[Laura Corin]

Not exactly awry, but my eldest brother has never fulfilled his potential. His school assumed that, as he came from an academically-inclined family, he should continue to struggle through academic courses instead of learning a trade. My parents didn't step in and he came out of school with poor qualifications. He went to university, but dropped out after one year, unable to keep up with the academic work.

 

I do see a possible parallel life for him, in which he became a well-respected and competent tradesman. Instead - after long periods of unemployment and mental illness - he works in a supermarket, checking the supplies and driving a forklift in the stores. The lack of self esteem has, I believe, also affected his private life.

 

Laura

[Pippen]

It scares me...the idea that as parents we can make one error, one crucial mistake and our children's lives can spiral down a path we never intended. It's not so much about self-condemnation as it is being more discerning and taking even seemingly small decisions seriously. I know we can't predict everything. But I look at my 3 kids and think how important every little decision is and am I making the right ones?

 

I think there's SO much more to who we grow up to be than one parental mistake--temperament, environment, other influences, divine direrection for those who believe, etc. My brothers and I grew up in a home environment and genetics that by all reckoning should have left us both with mental illnesses and totally dysfunctional as adults and yet 2 of the 3 of us are leading healthy, productive lives free from mental illness. (Seriously, anyone who hears our stories is shocked my brother and I aren't a total mess. The third died young and had a lot of trouble in life.)

 

All you can do here is be the best parent you can be. Love your children. Spend time with them. Be a good example to them. Give them a stable home life. Build positive influences into their lives. Protect them when they need protecting and nudge them forward when they need nudging. Follow your instincts. Teach them about the world. Give them good critical thinking skills. If they find the thing they love in life, encourage them in ways that are acceptable, sacrifically if needed. Be willing to say no. Let them fail sometimes. Love them no matter what. Respect their interests and skills. Pray.

[Heather in Neverland]

Just to clarify...I absolutely believe my brother should take control of his life and make better choices regardless of the mistakes he has made in the past and I tell him so all the time (especially as he now has full custody of his 5yo boy).

 

But he has this "too far gone" mindset. It makes me wonder how some of you who went awry as a teen were able to pull yourselves out of it and become productive citizens while my brother seems unable to? Actually, it's more like he is unwilling to... sigh...

 

We had the SAME parents...how did we turn out so differently? I do have another brother who also did not go down a bad path...just the youngest did.

 

But it is amazing to me how one bad decision does lead to another bad decision and another... my brother's choice of friends, then his decision to join a band, then to start drinking and doing drugs, then the sleeping around, then the "even worse inlfuence" girlfriend that he met at a bar while he was drunk and playing a gig, that lead to marrying her that lead to their mutual alcohol and drug abuse, that lead to cheating, that lead to divorce, that lead to........

 

Do you see where I am coming from? So while I agree that one decision may not necessarily destroy our lives, one bad decision CAN lead to a string of bad decisions until you are so far down a road it seems impossible to turn around and go back.

 

And my heart hurts for my brother tonight. All I can do is pray. This is something only God can change I think.

[Renee in NC]

Just to clarify...I absolutely believe my brother should take control of his life and make better choices regardless of the mistakes he has made in the past and I tell him so all the time (especially as he now has full custody of his 5yo boy).

 

But he has this "too far gone" mindset. It makes me wonder how some of you who went awry as a teen were able to pull yourselves out of it and become productive citizens while my brother seems unable to? Actually, it's more like he is unwilling to... sigh...

 

We had the SAME parents...how did we turn out so differently? I do have another brother who also did not go down a bad path...just the youngest did.

 

But it is amazing to me how one bad decision does lead to another bad decision and another... my brother's choice of friends, then his decision to join a band, then to start drinking and doing drugs, then the sleeping around, then the "even worse inlfuence" girlfriend that he met at a bar while he was drunk and playing a gig, that lead to marrying her that lead to their mutual alcohol and drug abuse, that lead to cheating, that lead to divorce, that lead to........

 

Do you see where I am coming from? So while I agree that one decision may not necessarily destroy our lives, one bad decision CAN lead to a string of bad decisions until you are so far down a road it seems impossible to turn around and go back.

 

And my heart hurts for my brother tonight. All I can do is pray. This is something only God can change I think.

 

The thing is, Heather, that one bad decision can lead to another and so on, but none of us are perfect. We will make decisions that are bad for our dc at times. We do the best we can do. Even if we, as parents, make all the right decisions, our dc might not. It could be that your brother would be right where he is today even if your parents *didn't* let him play in bands. As Joanne said, alcoholics are born and not made.

 

I try to remember that as a parent I only have but so much influence. The choices that my 17yo makes are not my own. Do I regret some decisions I made with him? Of course!

 

My brother said something to me a couple of weeks ago about parenting. He said if parents worry about where they went wrong, or what they could have done better, or things that they should have done differently, then they are GOOD parents. He said bad parents spend their time trying to convince others that they were good parents and that anything that went wrong is not their fault.;)

[Tess in the Burbs]

absolutely a defining moment can change a person's life, but it's how they react to it as well that determines the future outcome.

 

My parents divorced when I was in 9th grade. My mom left 3 days before final exams. She asked me to go with her. It was devastating.

 

My sister is still suffering from this experience. She still sees her shrink weekly and it all comes back to mom leaving that led her down a dangerous path.

 

My sister is an alcoholic who has walked away from 3 car crashes every time the police/emt's said no one could survive but a drunk. Her blood alcohol levels have made records at local hospitals for someone to live much less walk in and speak while that drunk.

 

My sister is anorexic/bulimic. This too started when mom left. If she's not drinking she's controlling about food. Currently she's no longer eating meat. A typical meal for her is 4 club crackers, a handful of peppermints and maybe a yogurt or fruit. that is her day. Oh, instant coffee. she does drink instant coffee. When she drinks she doesn't eat at all. If left alone in a kitchen with food she will scarf down as much as she can until another person comes in and then she goes to throw up.

 

She's 36 now. We never know when a bad day will come. She just had back surgery and starts a new job next week. She's hoping to get an apt soon. Her husband lives 4 hours away and no longer caters to her issues. He has a good job and family where he lives/works. So he's staying and my sister can deal on her own. She makes no efforts to change or get better.

 

I had my issues after mom left. I partied some. But I get that life isn't always happy and I have responsibilities. My sister believes she should be happy 24/7. She's not, so she drinks or starves herself. And yes, it all goes back to mom leaving. She says so herself

[zaichiki]

My brother said something to me a couple of weeks ago about parenting. He said if parents worry about where they went wrong, or what they could have done better, or things that they should have done differently, then they are GOOD parents. He said bad parents spend their time trying to convince others that they were good parents and that anything that went wrong is not their fault.;)

 

No. I disagree with this. Many things that go wrong are not the parents' fault. If the parents see this, and communicate it to others, they are not by default bad parents.

 

OP,

One bad decision does not necessarily lead to another. The string of bad choices, I believe, is just a repetition of the same type of choice. I don't think they are sewn together.

 

We have a choice to make *each* time. God gives us innumerable second chances. Your brother can, at any time, choose to change. He is not "too far gone." It may just be that for whatever reason (and I'm going with "personality" or the way his brain was made) he continues to choose the same way he has in the past.

 

I think the question you asked about what makes someone who *has* gone "awry" decide to change and/or "come back" is a very good one. I have wondered the same thing many times.

[Hikin' Mama]

for one single thing to drastically alter it, barring serious accident or tragedy. Like previous posters have said, so many factors are involved in the choices we make. I had wonderful parents and I made some bad choices as a young adult, and I can't say it was anything they did. There are things I've done differently than my parents, but that's because I'm different than them, not better or worse, just different.

 

I know people who have had some pretty nasty parenting and are now wonderful parents. I know people who have had nasty parenting and are following in their parents' footsteps. It's fascinating to me why some people rise above their circumstances and others don't. And why people with the same parents can turn out so differently.

 

:grouphug: to you, OP. I would be hurting too if my little brother, who is one of my best friends, was living this lifestyle.

[Renee in NC]

No. I disagree with this. Many things that go wrong are not the parents' fault. If the parents see this, and communicate it to others, they are not by default bad parents.

 

 

 

Good parents don't spend their time trying to convince others that they were good parents - they spend their time parenting and worrying about their children and what they could've done differently. I can't imagine a parent sitting around talking to all their freinds about what a good job they did with that child, but how xyz happened when he was an adult and all their good parenting just went out the window. Yes, that *does* happen, but good parents are like Heather's parents - they express sorrow, rather than deflecting blame.

[Pippen]

absolutely a defining moment can change a person's life, but it's how they react to it as well that determines the future outcome.

 

My parents divorced when I was in 9th grade. My mom left 3 days before final exams. She asked me to go with her. It was devastating.

 

My sister is still suffering from this experience. She still sees her shrink weekly and it all comes back to mom leaving that led her down a dangerous path.

 

 

I don't in ANY WAY discount how devestating this was on your family, but I also have to think that by nature some people are just more resiliant than others. Those that are less resiliant seem to crash when the going gets rough. While your sister points all of her problems back to that one event, it's also possible that had it not happened she would have crashed due to a different trigger.

 

There's just no telling what would have happened had another path been open. My brother who died when he was younger would have probably fared better in a more stable home environment, but I suspect he would have found his way to trouble anyway.

[rwilliams]

Maybe he'd find other negative influences.

 

We can't keep our children from interacting with the world. Some kids have more addictive personalities. Some seem to be born leaders while others are born followers. I have children who are so different from one another (like everyone here, of course!). One is easily influenced by others and one is not. I do not believe the difference is environmental.

 

It sounds like your brother made a whole slew of bad choices. I don't think I'd blame the gigs and/or the bars. Either he didn't know the choices he was making weren't good ones, or he isn't very capable of thinking things through before he acts.

 

It could be that his brain is wired differently. Is he more impulsive? Doesn't consider consequences? Less able to think about others' feelings? Maybe he was just "made that way." Even if your parents had not allowed him contact with the negative influences at 15, he probably would have found them anyway.

 

Please talk to your parents about seeing this another way. It would be horrible if they continued to blame themselves for his life choices.

 

 

I agree with this but wanted to add this: I think that we as parents have a responsiblitiy to assess our kids strengths and weaknesses. If our child has tendencies towards impulsiviity, we have to work harder to help them develop skills for success. If our kid has trouble seeing more than one step past a decision, we have to teach that skill. I have worked very hard to teach my child what I call good thinking skills. I have worked with or observed so many kids who I feel would have been much more successful if someone had been able to teach certain skills before it was too late.....meaning teeage years and lose of parental control. And I do feel that these are lifeskills that can be taught if addressed early enough.

[mom4him]

Define "awry" however you wish... and this may be a tough question but...if you have a teen or young adult child who has gone "awry" ... and hindsight being 20/20 as they say... can you point to a "pivotal" moment when things started to go wrong for that child? If you could go back in time and change one thing that might send their life in a different direction, could you pick out that moment?

 

Personal example: my youngest brother (who is now 35 yo) is a raging alcoholic, drug-user, cheated on his wife constantly, can't hold down a job, been arrested several times for drunk driving, drunk and disorderly, domestic violence, etc.

 

He is an absolute anomaly in my family. The proverbial black sheep and it breaks my heart. When I look back at his life and when things started to go awry I can pick at least one big decision my parents made that they would change if they could (and they have said so).

 

My brother is an amazingly talented singer and musician. At 15yo he and his friends put together a "garage band" and entered a battle of the bands contest. They won. They got a small recording contract and the next thing you know this group of 15 and 16 yo kids were playing in bars and other concert venues all over the place every weekend.

 

Well you can imagine the type of people he spent his time with and the lifestyle it lead to. You can't let a 15yo hang out in a bar til all hours every weekend and think nothing bad is going to happen. :glare: The drinking, the drugs, the girls...it's been all downhill since then. He now qualifies as a "has-been" who has squandered his talent and reduced himself to a cliche. And my mom says if she could change ONE thing she would never have let him enter that world (at least while she still had a say in his life as a young teen).

 

It scares me...the idea that as parents we can make one error, one crucial mistake and our children's lives can spiral down a path we never intended. It's not so much about self-condemnation as it is being more discerning and taking even seemingly small decisions seriously. I know we can't predict everything. But I look at my 3 kids and think how important every little decision is and am I making the right ones?

 

Or maybe I am just upset because I talked to him last night and he is still a mess. :confused:

:grouphug: Heather, I do not believe that what a child does as an adult is the total result of what the parent does or doesn't do. Of course it influences that person but we all have a free will. It probably was a big mistake to allow your brother the type of venue he had at the age he was but he is continuing to make that choice and I believe he probably knows that wrongness of those choices.

As a parent we make mistakes, we are human. The biggest thing is to ask for Gods forgiveness, ask the child's forgiveness, if the child is still a child turn the situation around but mainly cover that person with prayer. Your brother may look hopeless but there is always hope with God.

I will share our summer. While our oldest ds was in the hospital in Denver and I was literally living there with him, my dh and two younger children were in an extended stay hotel. We bought each of the kids skateboards and my dh would take them to skate parks. I did not realize what was going on until my ds was on a major down hill roll. His language very quickly became extremely unacceptable and his attitude in general was out of control. I was with them possibly 1-2 days a wk and spent most of my time addressing the situation both with my ds AND with my dh but dh is not a disciplinarian. By the time we got home I was ready to take my ds and attach him to the flag pole out front.:tongue_smilie:

I started coming down on him very hard. The first couple months he was grounded much more than he was free.(one week grounded. language was under control. Off grounding for a couple of hrs, language was out of control, back to being grounded.:001_huh:) This really was the way our time went. When he was grounded he watched very carefully as I would add days if he was disrespectful to anyone in my hearing.

Lets fast forward to present. He has now become the neighbor hood language police.:lol: If I slip and say 'darn' he is on me..... He hasn't been grounded now for about 3 wks.:D If he slips back into those habits he will be though. I also dealt with heart issues at the same time and I feel that he is truly gaining an understanding there also. Also how that language can become such a part of us that it just flows when we use it a lot.

I don't know if this helps or not but with your own dc you simple need to stay in prayer with them, deal with heart issues when they come up, be ready to ask forgiveness when appropriate and enjoy life with them.

Have a blessed New Year in your adventure as parent.

[Peela]

I guess people might have said the same about me. My parents separated when I was 13 and I went "off the rails" after that. I often think...when they asked me if I wanted counselling, they should never have *asked* because I was too young to even know what that meant! I said no- it seemed shameful to me to get counselling. They should have insisted! It might have saved everyone years of heartache, most of all me, if I had had counselling. Instead I "went off the rails" but I came good (in my late twenties). My brother was the good child and went to uni and got a good career etc. However....the lessons I learned, my experiences....I am so grateful in so many ways for the path I took, because it was unique and I have had a very interesting life. If I had just done what my brother did, I would not be happy. So...everyone has their own path to tread and you can't really say they never needed to do it.

 

My dh has some very strong ideas regarding the kids. His oldest dd- my stepdd21- has a model's body and she wanted to become a model for a while. He was very, very firm in his No Way. Not because of anything moral except...he didn't want her having that lifestyle, around those sorts of people, with that mentality. He didn't want her in an envonment that had potential danger involved. He has been the same about the kids being in bands and that sort of thing, actually. He doesnt want the lifestyle attached to it, for them. And...he has had a VERY wild life, and mine hasnt exactly been sheltered...so its not so much conservatism as a having been rather worldly, and wanting to protect the teens from the most obvious potential pitfalls...from his perspective.

 

But I think there is a tendency to look at your kids and go "where did I go wrong' if they appear to go wrong. But it doesn't always work like that at all. We do our best. Our parents did their best. People who go off the rails are actually doing their best, too, from their own perspective.

[Chris in VA]

As a parent of a teen that has gone awry, I've come to realize that, while there are things I could have done differently, I am not responsible for every choice made by my teen.

I am not responsible for his DNA.

I am not responsible for his peers' behavior.

 

I DO NOT HAVE THAT MUCH CONTROL over his life, and, while ITA that parents have enormous responsibility, children are not just the product of their parents' parenting.

 

I simply can't spend that much time looking over the past and lamenting mistakes. There is no defining moment that, if changed, would have guaranteed he wouldn't be the person he is. I cannot see the future, or know what would have happened if certain things hadn't taken place.

 

To live a sane life, I simply can't spend an inordinate amount of time lamenting, second-guessing, etc. For sure, I have repented of not being a good parent at various times, but I have given myself the grace to forgive my faults, forgive my human-ness, and to understand that I am not perfect.

 

Moreover, there is no formula for insuring your kids will not mess up their lives. It is not some sort of mathematical equation. "Do this and this, and they will be this way." You'd think that providing a stable home, good medical care, good nutrition, monitored peer interactions, values, modeling of unselfish/kind/loving behavior, clear channels of communication, love and affection, good boundaries--all of these--would guarantee that someone would choose healthy, wholesome, wonderful behaviors and would "turn out" a great kid.

 

Not always true. Maybe more likely, but NOT ALWAYS.

 

So, forget the fear of messing up.

 

YOU WILL.

 

Don't try to be God.

[Joanne]

As a parent of a teen that has gone awry, I've come to realize that, while there are things I could have done differently, I am not responsible for every choice made by my teen.

I am not responsible for his DNA.

I am not responsible for his peers' behavior.

 

I DO NOT HAVE THAT MUCH CONTROL over his life, and, while ITA that parents have enormous responsibility, children are not just the product of their parents' parenting.

 

I simply can't spend that much time looking over the past and lamenting mistakes. There is no defining moment that, if changed, would have guaranteed he wouldn't be the person he is. I cannot see the future, or know what would have happened if certain things hadn't taken place.

 

To live a sane life, I simply can't spend an inordinate amount of time lamenting, second-guessing, etc. For sure, I have repented of not being a good parent at various times, but I have given myself the grace to forgive my faults, forgive my human-ness, and to understand that I am not perfect.

 

Moreover, there is no formula for insuring your kids will not mess up their lives. It is not some sort of mathematical equation. "Do this and this, and they will be this way." You'd think that providing a stable home, good medical care, good nutrition, monitored peer interactions, values, modeling of unselfish/kind/loving behavior, clear channels of communication, love and affection, good boundaries--all of these--would guarantee that someone would choose healthy, wholesome, wonderful behaviors and would "turn out" a great kid.

 

Not always true. Maybe more likely, but NOT ALWAYS.

 

So, forget the fear of messing up.

 

YOU WILL.

 

Don't try to be God.

 

{{{Chris in VA}}}

 

My parents were married, hard working, I attended church (and a generous, lighthearted, non legalistic one), had lots of extended family support and events.

 

Yea, there were some childhood moments that were not "good" and some dramatically bad events.

 

It wasn't my parents fault - at all - that I became an alcoholic.

 

It's not your fault that your son did.

[Dobela]

I have been watching the show on A&E called Intervention lots lately. Unless your kids are older you don't want to let them watch with you because it shows people using the drugs, buying them, and so on because they have been told they are in a documentary about addictions. It can be pretty graphic. After showing how desperate a person's situation is, and interviews with the family, an intervention is done to get the person to agree to leave for rehab in another state to get clean. A couple of times I have seen other family members will go to a rehab or special counseling centers as well to get help dealing with their co-dependancy and their own emotional issues that don't pertain to alcohol or drugs.

 

For each of the people involved there was not just one incident that triggered the lifestyle. Some had tragic things happen that led to depression and then to treat it the person began using rather than get help. For some it is a heart of rebellion that led to the beginning use. Others came from homes with no boundaries. Some had very strict families. Some use the family backgrounds as an excuse for behavior. One family was unable to recognize or address the special emotional needs of one child they had adopted as a toddler. The dad just kept talking about how God could heal his son if the son would just want it. The dad thought he was giving the child/young man hope in heaven but the child just felt judged and detached even more fom family. Some seem to have very low self esteem, others seem to have high self regard.

 

There isn't a perfect solution or magic method. I have 2 children and they respond very differently to discipline and praise. At some point however they are responsible for their own actions.

[lamamaloca]

As a parent of a teen that has gone awry, I've come to realize that, while there are things I could have done differently, I am not responsible for every choice made by my teen.

I am not responsible for his DNA.

I am not responsible for his peers' behavior.

 

I DO NOT HAVE THAT MUCH CONTROL over his life, and, while ITA that parents have enormous responsibility, children are not just the product of their parents' parenting.

 

I simply can't spend that much time looking over the past and lamenting mistakes. There is no defining moment that, if changed, would have guaranteed he wouldn't be the person he is. I cannot see the future, or know what would have happened if certain things hadn't taken place.

 

I don't have a teen, but I so believe that this is true. Parents, do the best you can, but you are not responsible for how your child turns out, you are responsible for having done your best. Period.

[justamouse]

As a parent of a teen that has gone awry, I've come to realize that, while there are things I could have done differently, I am not responsible for every choice made by my teen.

I am not responsible for his DNA.

I am not responsible for his peers' behavior.

 

I DO NOT HAVE THAT MUCH CONTROL over his life, and, while ITA that parents have enormous responsibility, children are not just the product of their parents' parenting.

 

I simply can't spend that much time looking over the past and lamenting mistakes. There is no defining moment that, if changed, would have guaranteed he wouldn't be the person he is. I cannot see the future, or know what would have happened if certain things hadn't taken place.

 

To live a sane life, I simply can't spend an inordinate amount of time lamenting, second-guessing, etc. For sure, I have repented of not being a good parent at various times, but I have given myself the grace to forgive my faults, forgive my human-ness, and to understand that I am not perfect.

 

Moreover, there is no formula for insuring your kids will not mess up their lives. It is not some sort of mathematical equation. "Do this and this, and they will be this way." You'd think that providing a stable home, good medical care, good nutrition, monitored peer interactions, values, modeling of unselfish/kind/loving behavior, clear channels of communication, love and affection, good boundaries--all of these--would guarantee that someone would choose healthy, wholesome, wonderful behaviors and would "turn out" a great kid.

 

Not always true. Maybe more likely, but NOT ALWAYS.

 

So, forget the fear of messing up.

 

YOU WILL.

 

Don't try to be God.

 

 

What Chris said. And it's SO **** HARD to not blame yourself, but you know what? I taught him right from wrong-I had a lot to learn as far as parenting--I was very punitive back then, but he still knew right from wrong. It was his choice to make the decisions he did. And it's up to him to fix them.

 

It's hard--esp when other parents want to blame--you take that guilt up again so easily, but it's still not the parent's fault. When it comes down to it, the parent did not make the kid _______. Most likely, they heard the voice of their parent in their head saying "no, no, no," but did it anyway.

 

:grouphug:

[cathmom]

Adam and Eve had a son who MURDERED their other son. Jesus had a disciple who BETRAYED Him and gave Him up to die. PLEASE do not blame parents for choices their children make. It can happen to anyone, no matter what they have done or not done.

[Impish]

Well...

 

I know for ME, there is one defining moment that directly impacted the rest of my life.

 

If I could go back and change it, would I? Probably. At least, possibly.

 

But then I wouldn't be the person I am today, married to my dh, have my kids.

 

I think there's a reason God doesn't allow us to yell, "Do over!" :lol:

 

As parents, we do the best we can, and that's all we can do.

[Denisemomof4]

I have good boys but we have teen issues I never thought we'd face. With certainty, putting my boys into ps, the youngest half way through 5th grade, the oldest started in 9th is the cause of it. Being in ps has changed their attitudes and wreaked havoc on our family.

 

My oldest is an unbelievable kid. He's such a wonderful person. He would make any parent proud and he's the most unbelievable boyfriend and will be THE BEST husband. He entered ps with an attitude of loving and accepting everyone. He entered school with a burning passion for God. He didn't have a mean bone in his body. He's a handsome boy and girls took to him immediately, including the SENIOR who was voted prettiest girl. She had a crush on him until she found out he was a freshman and then she never talked to him again. :lol: The boys were pretty tough on him and he was even bullied by teachers. He entered school with straight A's and honor classes. After the PSAT and SAT teachers AND the principal sought him out to congratulate him on his test scores, and also wanted to know where he got his English/grammar instruction because they knew it wasn't in their school system. :glare: By the time he graduated, he barely slid by. He took mostly honors classes but in the classes where the teachers were mean to him, he just didn't apply himself. Putting him into school killed his passion of learning and he's not even enjoying college right now. The mean teachers and the worst of the bullies really changed who he was and it KILLS me that I didn't see this sooner. In the 10th grade he sunk into a deep depression and I can't believe I didn't notice it myself until he talked to me about how bad it was. This is when my parents went downhill fast so I was distracted and away hom home a lot. I will live with regret, sadness and guilt over that forever. I had to help my parents, but I should have realized what was going on with my preciosu son.

 

I had him do dual enrollment in the 11th grade and he graduated last year. He has done some things I didn't think he ever would (not bad, I can tell you I was a good kid but did far more then he has!) but the ONE good thing that came out of ps is that he has a WONDERFUL girlfriend. They were friends all four years and she had a crush on him from day one. She always liked him because he was so nice to everyone. They started to date weeks before the end of school and have been together 7 months and are talking marriage. Still, it got so bad and he has attitude like he never did. He had to learn to change who he was, become mean to some kids, to be able to fit in. He doesn't put up with disrespect, even by teachers. And I don't care what anyone thinks, some adults don't deserve to be respected. I know what some of these "adult" teachers put him through and I would NEVER get angry at him if he disrespected them and we got called. He decided enough was enough and one bully came after him (student, not teacher!) and he knocked him to the ground so hard the bully cried. It was the last time someone picked on him. But he's got this hard edge I never thought he would. He's such a kind, generous soul and people take advantage of him. I watched this in my father my entire life and hope he can learn not to allow this at a young age. I didn't learn until my dad died and I've changed who I am now. Ds is a very intolerant person right now and he doesn't put up with ANYTHING. This is a learned behavior. He thinks people are bad, he's pretty most lost faith in the human race. I do wish that he never entered ps because it has forever scarred him. He has friends, always has, but he's just not a person who can put up with bullying, but it's FAR harder for him to watch someone else get bullied and he always gets sucked in and sticks up for them.

 

I do hope that he can one day restore his faith in the human race but for now, the scars run deep. He's the happiest he's ever been, has friends, has a wonderful girlfriend. But in college he isn't even trying to get to know anyone because he's just fed up.

 

The high school my boys go to has a very bad reputation. I don't think it's really much different than any other school, though. I was so burnt out that I had to put my boys in school but if I could do things differently, this is what I would change.

 

Younger ds is doing fine but he's got attitude that drives me crazy.

 

I hope one day ds can heal and realize that he's a FANTASTIC person. I hope that one day he can realize that to the people who don't accept them: THEIR LOSS. He's still loving and kind to those who are the same way to him, but it still cuts him like a knife when someone doesn't like him. He obviously knows that people suck, people are mean, there are TONS of bad people. I do hope he can once again learn, and more importantly EXPERIENCE, many, many good people out there.

 

In ending, church scarred him as deep or even deeper than PS. I've spoken about that many times, too. I do also wish we never stepped foot into church. I mention this in ending because church was only a few hours per week while school was all day, every day.

 

I'm trying to word things right but I'm having a hard time of it today. I hope I'm making sense!

[Renee in NC]

Adam and Eve had a son who MURDERED their other son. Jesus had a disciple who BETRAYED Him and gave Him up to die. PLEASE do not blame parents for choices their children make. It can happen to anyone, no matter what they have done or not done.

 

Exactly!

 

I bet you Adam and Eve still wondered where they had gone wrong, don't you think? I think it is a natural part of parenting that we wonder, "What if...?"

[Catwoman]

I don't know. What I know is that one club gig lead to two which lead to three and so on. One drink at a club gig while hanging out with people far older than him lead to two drinks which lead to three and then to his first joint and then to his first hit of acid and so on. And all these things took place at the bars or after hours when the gig was over, etc.

 

If a 15yo had never been playing in a bar til 2am to begin with maybe....????

 

IMO, if it was going to happen, it was going to happen, whether he was 15 or 18 or 21.

 

Many people are exposed to bad things and don't turn into drug addicts or alcoholics. I understand why your parents blame themselves, but honestly, I don't blame them -- I blame your brother for his own actions. He could have said no to many of the temptations, but he chose not to.

 

Cat