Blueridge Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Please help me to come up with something to help my dh. He is in a very difficult situation at work and is asking me for my encouragement and opinions. He has been in this job for 1 1/2 years, and is generally so happy with it. The only real problem is his co-worker. It's a 2 man office, and there is plenty of work for 2-3 people. The boss in 2,000 miles away in NH, so they are on the honor system. The co-worker has been scamming for the last year. He is a real friendly person, but has a shrewish wife who calls him on average of 12-15 times a day. Complaining. Screaming. Telling him to leave early to take one of their kids to xyz practice or lessons. My dh was so sympathetic for the first 6 months or so, but the last year it has escalated badly. The co-worker comes in at 10 when he decides to come at all (work starts at 8) and sometimes leaves at 2 or 3. Half the time he is sitting asleep in his chair or playing computer games. Sometimes he writes dh an email and says that he has decided to work from home that day. A few months ago he started volunteering for night projects each week, which is usually fine with dh since he wants to be home at night. :) His wife started a night time job from their home, so that has been a huge part of the problem. Now the man is insisting on working each and every night (he gets overtime differential) even if there is no work to be done that night. My dh recently found out that, most of the time, this man is not even coming to work at all. Never checks his email, never sends out a night report. The man isn't working, which means that my dh has double the work load. But, my dear hubby has a heart of gold. He realizes that his co-worker is committing time sheet fraud, and he knows that if he breathes a word of this to their boss, the man will be fired. So, my dh is still putting up with it all. I feel badly for him. But things are falling through the cracks when he is thinking that the co-worker is handling work projects and then finds out that they haven't been done. He is really struggling with knowing what to do. The boss really likes this man for some reason, and he has been with the company for 8 years. My dh would never want to cost a man his job, but it is hurting him to keep enduring the ethical dilemma with no escape. How should I help him? So far he has kept completely quiet, but it has been a year of watching this man take advantage of him and his company. I think dh is breaking because he handles all the work, all the time, and I feel sorry for him because he doesn't want to cause trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 That is really a tough situation your dh is in. Wish I could help with the ethical questions, but I better just offer :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Well it sounds like he knows what is the right thing to do. Tough, but if things continue to go downhill he could put his own job in jeopardy. I would note all the incidents he has information on and schedule a time to talk to his boss. The consequences of this man's actions are not your dh's responsibility. I assume this other man is well aware of his behavior. By not sharing this with his employer could he be compromising his own job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindyD Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 That's tough, and part of the problem is that dh has given implicit permission to this guy to treat your dh this way. Does your dh have any real proof that he can show their boss? If not, it's a he said/he said situation. If he has undeniable proof, I'd go to the boss. If he doesn't have a lot of evidence to back up his claims it could go either way. If the other guy has been at the company for so long and the boss likes him, your dh could end up being the one let go. If you try to talk to the other guy first, he very well might strike first and blame your dh first. He's already proven himself to be unethical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcarolinamom Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Well it sounds like he knows what is the right thing to do. Tough, but if things continue to go downhill he could put his own job in jeopardy. I would note all the incidents he has information on and schedule a time to talk to his boss. The consequences of this man's actions are not your dh's responsibility. I assume this other man is well aware of his behavior. By not sharing this with his employer could he be compromising his own job? :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 This other man is stealing from the company, and your husband hasn't reported it. He needs to report it ASAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 That's so awful, and so difficult for your DH :( Would he speak to the coworker about it first? Tell him that he knows the guy's having a hard time, but that he really needs to straighten up, start pulling his weight, stop messing around with the time sheets, etc., or else your DH will need to say something to the boss? Or would that just make things worse? If he doesn't feel comfortable talking to the guy, then yes, I'd say that he needs to report the guy to the boss. Elegantlion is right--this guy's problems are not your DH's problem, and he shouldn't take them on. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 First let me say I am sorry your dh is in this situation. If I were him I would begin to document what he observes. As another poster said I would gather any concrete proof and maybe keep a time journal. Only if and when he has adequate proof would I consider saying anything to the boss. In a situation like this sometimes all you can do is cover your own skin and let the chips fall where they will. Good luck to him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 That's tough, and part of the problem is that dh has given implicit permission to this guy to treat your dh this way. Does your dh have any real proof that he can show their boss? If not, it's a he said/he said situation. If he has undeniable proof, I'd go to the boss. If he doesn't have a lot of evidence to back up his claims it could go either way. If the other guy has been at the company for so long and the boss likes him, your dh could end up being the one let go. If you try to talk to the other guy first, he very well might strike first and blame your dh first. He's already proven himself to be unethical. Also very good points, all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoyfulMama Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I think your dh needs to have a conversation with his co-worker, along the lines of... "I'm struggling with balancing things right now. It is difficult to communicate with you on projects when our work schedules seem to be so different, and I have received feedback on projects where I think we have dropped the ball because of it." If this doesn't go anywhere, I'd take the same approach with the boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 That's tough, and part of the problem is that dh has given implicit permission to this guy to treat your dh this way. Does your dh have any real proof that he can show their boss? If not, it's a he said/he said situation. If he has undeniable proof, I'd go to the boss. If he doesn't have a lot of evidence to back up his claims it could go either way. If the other guy has been at the company for so long and the boss likes him, your dh could end up being the one let go. If you try to talk to the other guy first, he very well might strike first and blame your dh first. He's already proven himself to be unethical. :iagree:I would be very worried that if he talks to the guy, the guy will make it look like the opposite has happened. Your dh needs to make sure he is documenting his work, and the lack of the other guy's. And then go to the boss. If I were the boss, I'd say both employees are not acting in the best interest of the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 Thank you, your suggestions are helping me. I have been afraid that my dh could be putting his own job at risk by being too nice. Poor guy. It's just a hateful situation, and he really feels cheated by this man because he has been trusting him and taking him at his word. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Can he request seperate work loads or a better defined job description? Something with clear expectations? My concern about going to the boss, is that if he does "like" this other employee...your dh might end up on the losing end. Hope that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonshine Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Is there any way for your dh to start documenting which work is his? Then the boss may notice that all the work is signed by your dh. Of course, it would have to be in a way that the other guy can't sign his name to your dh's work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 My dh's job is set up in a similar manner - off-site boss, and a few guys sorting out a schedule or coverage of sorts. The only way it manages to work is that everyone is very direct. With each other, and with their boss(es). They're all very strong personalities (including dh) and would steamroll the first overly-accommodating person. I'd definitely recommend talking to the other guy first, to make sure he's aware of the issue AND the fact that your dh isn't willing to put up with it any more. Then take it to the boss if there's no change. Honestly, there's a potential downside to any route he takes, but jumping from 18 months of silence and going straight to the boss *could* be seen as a weakness in his problem solving abilities. I doubt they'd be pleased to know how long it's been going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Well it sounds like he knows what is the right thing to do. Tough, but if things continue to go downhill he could put his own job in jeopardy. I would note all the incidents he has information on and schedule a time to talk to his boss. The consequences of this man's actions are not your dh's responsibility. I assume this other man is well aware of his behavior. By not sharing this with his employer could he be compromising his own job? :iagree: I think it's awful that this man is taking advantage of his boss, and he's taking advantage of your husband, too. Your husband is very kind, and that's wonderful. But, I know he's not intending to, but he's enabling this person. I understand how tough this situation is, I think, but it's really tough out there and it makes me angry that someone is taking advantage of this situation while someone else desperately needs a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I would suggest that your DH try to create a situation where it dawns on the boss that the co-worker isn't working. One idea is for your husband to suggest a brief conference call each week where they both discuss the work that they accomplished the last week, what they are currently working on and what they hope to be working on next. Or that he suggest to the boss that they begin emailing the same info (what you've finished, what you are working on and what you are going to work on next). It is a come business thing, so maybe it would work. It helps with planning and helps to document work completed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Is there absolutely no accountability in this job? or is hubby pretending that his own work is both of theirs? It would seem to me that this other guy would have no "progress" to report of any kind. Maybe your hubby should document how much of the work HE DOES on his own, leaving the other guy showing little or nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 But if he's culpable in this fraud, through his silence, might not he be fired, too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 But if he's culpable in this fraud, through his silence, might not he be fired, too? Not to mention that if the business goes under because things aren't being taken care of, he would lose his job anyway. The other man sounds like he's having serious marital difficulties. But there's a point when it can't be allowed to interfere with his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 If the other guy is cheating and stealing from the company as blatantly as you describe, he doesn't deserve a "warning". I mean 2 hours of work a day? come on. I would advise dh to document it and let the boss know that he is uncomfortable sharing projects due to a difference in work styles/hours/ethics, then give examples of what he is concerned about. That way the boss can choose to ignore the theft if he thinks this is all fine (and hopefully if that is the case your dh will be assigned to separate projects), or, more likely in my opinion, the thief will get fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misidawnrn Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Is there anyway for your DH to find a way to implement an electronic time card...checking in online or even an old fashioned punch card that shows time punched in, time punched out. That would make the guy responsible for actually clocking in and out and the boss would find out what he is up to. Sorry he has to deal with it but it is fraud and should be reported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I think your dh needs to have a conversation with his co-worker, along the lines of... "I'm struggling with balancing things right now. It is difficult to communicate with you on projects when our work schedules seem to be so different, and I have received feedback on projects where I think we have dropped the ball because of it." If this doesn't go anywhere, I'd take the same approach with the boss. I would just go to the boss. In my bitter experience, the real goof-offs have an ace up the sleeve and will bash you with a swift retaliation: porno on your computer, a complaint of being poisoned, you name it. If he's been with them for 8 years, he has either been extraordinarily lucky or a real con artist. The latter had make your life miserable. He is bilking the boss. I'd have no trouble getting him canned (in my mind), but I'd look into who had your spot before you, why they left, etc. This slothful guy could be a real snake in the grass. I see this at work all too often. The lazy employees have other faults as well. Think of it this way: this man is a liar. What lie can he tell about you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Your dh needs to start documenting things and then within the next 30 days send a copy of the documentation to the boss. Don't say a word to the other employee. It is not your dh's place to counsel him in any way. In doing so your dh also runs the risk of the other guy setting things up so it looks like your dh is the culprit. Or worse. By not saying anything your dh is jeopardizing his job. What happens when the boss finds out what is going on and asks your dh why he did not report it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 But if he's culpable in this fraud, through his silence, might not he be fired, too? The guy could claim your hubby was taking a cut to be quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abigail4476 Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 First let me say I am sorry your dh is in this situation. If I were him I would begin to document what he observes. As another poster said I would gather any concrete proof and maybe keep a time journal. Only if and when he has adequate proof would I consider saying anything to the boss. In a situation like this sometimes all you can do is cover your own skin and let the chips fall where they will. Good luck to him! :iagree: If your husband decides to address this to the boss, then he needs to have specific examples, proof and logs with dates/times to show. He might have to put up with it for another month or two just to get what he needs, but that's the only way to cover his own behind. I also like the suggestion of your husband documenting which work is his, so that the other guy's name is mysteriously missing from everything. It could prompt a conversation with the boss at any rate. Unfortunately, if the boss and the other guy are friends, the whole thing could backfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abigail4476 Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Your dh needs to start documenting things and then within the next 30 days send a copy of the documentation to the boss. Don't say a word to the other employee. It is not your dh's place to counsel him in any way. In doing so your dh also runs the risk of the other guy setting things up so it looks like your dh is the culprit. Or worse. By not saying anything your dh is jeopardizing his job. What happens when the boss finds out what is going on and asks your dh why he did not report it? I agree with this, too. In a workplace situation, you go to the boss; not the fellow employee. Otherwise, they can fight dirty and get your husband fired before he even knows what's happened. You don't give a heads up in this type of situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 Thank you all so much for your wisdom. I have been saying for a while now that I was worried that this dishonest man could easily turn on dh and point some kind of finger at him. Dh is so trusting and such a hard worker that he just couldn't believe that the guy could say anything negative about him or his work LOL. After reading all your honest responses to him last night, something seemed to *click* and now he sees the potential for disaster. He's been seeing this man as a real friendly guy who has a lot of personal issues and needs a break. :tongue_smilie: Ironically, next week is a meeting of all the area offices and the bosses, to discuss *accountability*! Then each employee has a 1-on-1 review with the boss. Dh intends to clear the air by asking the boss if he has approved the other man's night work routine (when there is no official night project scheduled). That way he can put it on their supervisor's radar. He knows that the boss hates unnecessary overtime charges because of his budget. ;) We'll be praying for what to do next. In the mean time, dh will be documenting all the unusual habits of this man and keeping them in a file. Thank you all for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingM Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Go to the boss. Your husband's responsibility is to the company. If he lets this guy get away with theft, not only does he undermine his employer, but he becomes an accomplice in this guy's crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I would just go to the boss. In my bitter experience, the real goof-offs have an ace up the sleeve and will bash you with a swift retaliation: porno on your computer, a complaint of being poisoned, you name it. If he's been with them for 8 years, he has either been extraordinarily lucky or a real con artist. The latter had make your life miserable. He is bilking the boss. I'd have no trouble getting him canned (in my mind), but I'd look into who had your spot before you, why they left, etc. This slothful guy could be a real snake in the grass. I see this at work all too often. The lazy employees have other faults as well. Think of it this way: this man is a liar. What lie can he tell about you? :iagree: You can try to be the bigger person, but an unethical person is an unethical person, and you have to deal with them for what they are. You have to be wise enough to expect the worst and speak up, before it's too late and they have spun their web of lies during your polite silence. (I learned this recently the hard way.) This man will not likely go down without trying to drag your dh with him by concocting some sort of scheme or story. Your dh is not his boss. He needs to follow the chain of command and report it up the ranks. It is not his job, nor should he, try to take care of it himself. That is not appropriate. And the longer he waits, the more culpable he himself is for not reporting known fraud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Well it sounds like he knows what is the right thing to do. Tough, but if things continue to go downhill he could put his own job in jeopardy. I would note all the incidents he has information on and schedule a time to talk to his boss. The consequences of this man's actions are not your dh's responsibility. I assume this other man is well aware of his behavior. By not sharing this with his employer could he be compromising his own job? This other man is stealing from the company, and your husband hasn't reported it. He needs to report it ASAP But if he's culpable in this fraud, through his silence, might not he be fired, too? Go to the boss. Your husband's responsibility is to the company. If he lets this guy get away with theft, not only does he undermine his employer, but he becomes an accomplice in this guy's crime. :iagree: with all of the above. Your dh, by *not* speaking out, has put himself in a precarious situation. At the very least, your dh needs to ensure that *he's* the first one to speak to the boss, so he can lay it all out on the table. Otherwise, this jerk might point the finger at your dh. I'm thinking a call to the boss to say, "There's something concerning me, that I really need to talk to you about when you're here for the 1-1 meetings. If at all possible, could we meet first thing?" I've worked for companies that stated any employee that witnesses stealing and doesn't report it will be fired along with the thief when the issue comes to light. He needs to document in a BOUND notebook. Not loose paper, not a spiral bound notebook. A spiral and a folder is too easy to falsify. A bound book, you can tell if pages have been ripped out, etc. Your dh needs to do more than CYA. He needs to armour plate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 If it's legal, I'd record the conversation... (w/o letting him know... depends on the state you live in...) If it's not, I'd send an email to the guy after, commenting on the points. "I'm struggling with balancing things right now. It is difficult to communicate with you on projects when our work schedules seem to be so different, and I have received feedback on projects where I think we have dropped the ball because of it."... I also like this... and then add....something about that you need him to email you with the times that he'll be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 Y'all are so gracious to continue to give us such great advice. I am sending him all your suggestions and comments and he is very appreciative. So very relieved that he is planning to finally say something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in Appalachia Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Your dh needs to start documenting things and then within the next 30 days send a copy of the documentation to the boss. Don't say a word to the other employee. It is not your dh's place to counsel him in any way. In doing so your dh also runs the risk of the other guy setting things up so it looks like your dh is the culprit. Or worse. By not saying anything your dh is jeopardizing his job. What happens when the boss finds out what is going on and asks your dh why he did not report it? :iagree: He should not say anything, but document everything and report it to his boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Thank you all so much for your wisdom. I have been saying for a while now that I was worried that this dishonest man could easily turn on dh and point some kind of finger at him. Dh is so trusting and such a hard worker that he just couldn't believe that the guy could say anything negative about him or his work LOL. After reading all your honest responses to him last night, something seemed to *click* and now he sees the potential for disaster. He's been seeing this man as a real friendly guy who has a lot of personal issues and needs a break. :tongue_smilie: Ironically, next week is a meeting of all the area offices and the bosses, to discuss *accountability*! Then each employee has a 1-on-1 review with the boss. Dh intends to clear the air by asking the boss if he has approved the other man's night work routine (when there is no official night project scheduled). That way he can put it on their supervisor's radar. He knows that the boss hates unnecessary overtime charges because of his budget. ;) We'll be praying for what to do next. In the mean time, dh will be documenting all the unusual habits of this man and keeping them in a file. Thank you all for your help! Glad to hear your dh is taking this seriously. I'd just recommend, along the lines of what Kalanamak stated, to keep his documentation at home or otherwise secure it. You never know what this guy might do if he finds your dh's file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 what a lousy thing! i'm thinking your dh should password protect his computer to the nth, or even better yet take it with him when he's not in the office. a few "unfortunate" downloads by the other employee would be the end of his job.... and reputation. sigh.... ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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