Statement of faith??

[woolybear]

There is a coop in the area. I am curious about it, but I haven't contacted them yet. I have heard you have to sign a statement of faith. Can anyone tell me just what this means?

 

TIA.

[SailorMom]

Well, in general terms, they are asking you to sign a preprepared statement that their co-op has approved that includes the sort of religious beliefs the co-op accepts. Usually they are pretty run of the mill protestan/Catholic ideas. Sometimes they will include old-Earth creation or infallible Bible statements. This has stopped my family from participating in a local co-op here.

[gpsings]

Our homeschool group has us sign one at membership, just basically stating that we are a christian family and believe in God. It's no big deal for us. ;)

[Lindy]

I'm currently organizing a co-op and we've had our participants sign a statement of faith. The leaders and I debated whether to include it or not and we ultimately decided that we'd encourage participants to sign it because the co-op is held at a local church and we want to uphold their values. We basically took the church's own statement of faith and simplified it to make room for those who are Christian but a part of other denominations. Also, because our co-op is specifically for Christians--all of our core curriculum is unabashedly Christian--we want like-minded families to participate and not worry about offending someone of another faith.

[Anne in CA]

I just wanted to point out that in the case of our coop it just means that you won't teach anything contrary to the statement of faith if you teach a class. A person of any faith at all could sign it in good conscience, you would just have to agree not to influence anyone's children away from those beliefs.

[woolybear]

Thank you! One of the things I love about this board is that you usually get a response fast. I posted this, then went to check on my son, folded some towels and came back. whew, that was quick.

[elegantlion]

Some statement of faiths go beyond "I am a Christian" statement. Our local group includes a YE creationist statement and that you believe that marriage is between man/woman. I don't have a problem with the "I am a Christian" statement, it's the science and politics being added as measures of faith that have kept me from joining said local group.

[littlebug42]

Most of the groups around here that require a statement of faith are always worded such that as a Catholic, there is no way I can sign it. Ask for a copy and see if the SOF is something you can live with.

[Mynyel]

Or the ones that say if you are single and "co-habitating" with the parent of your child you can't be raising you child in a loving home.

 

"we reject transitory co-habitational relationships as being equally in violation of God's laws and incapable of providing long-term nurture and instruction needed by children as commanded by God"

 

Yup...I didn't join. I couldn't. My sister is a single mom living with her boyfriend and his son. They are happy, she loves her kids, she nurtures them. It goes against me to believe something like this.

 

*shrug* What can ya do?

 

Edited June 30, 2010 by Mynyel

[KnitWit]

I want my *church* to have a statement of faith, but I don't do other groups. (Seriously, I need a t-shirt that says "Warning: Doesn't Play Well With Others!") I guess I'm glad! If someone else had *pre-sifted* all my relationships for me, I'd miss some good friends. :)

 

I think that *everyone* can find *some* piece of common ground...even if it's *just* big enough to stand *nose to nose* on. We don't need to *always* feel like we need to *change* people. I kind of feel like that's not my job.

 

I could see asking a *teacher* within a group to sign a statement of faith and then providing *that* to the diverse group of members, so THEY can choose whether or not they want their kids TAUGHT by that person, rather than such a broad exclusion on the front end.

 

I think it's kind of boring with everyone sitting around agreeing with each all the time. LOL!

[3littlekeets]

Most of the groups around here that require a statement of faith are always worded such that as a Catholic, there is no way I can sign it. Ask for a copy and see if the SOF is something you can live with.

 

 

Here, I found the same thing. It found some searching to find a cover school that would work for us!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Most of the groups around here that require a statement of faith are always worded such that as a Catholic, there is no way I can sign it. Ask for a copy and see if the SOF is something you can live with.

 

May I ask what parts of a statement of faith you have been unwilling to sign?

 

I ask because I've been on the board of a couple and at the fringes of leadership of others. I don't know that I would recognize a SOF that would feel exclusionary to a Catholic family. I'd like to be able to identify that and help the group make changes to the SOF.

 

I'm sure that I would notice a SOF that called the Catholic church names or bad mouthed the Pope. But what other things might go over my mostly protestant head?

[dangermom]

Yeah, SOFs are usually worded to keep people like me out of the club. I guess that's OK, since I don't approve of them on principle anyway.

[happyWImom]

Our co-op has a Statement of Faith that they provide members with, but we aren't required to sign it. It is basically to inform members to be what the group is all about. Because we do bible songs before and after class, we pray, and many of the classes have Christian content. But, anyone can join the group, regardless of their beliefs.

[littlebug42]

May I ask what parts of a statement of faith you have been unwilling to sign?

 

I ask because I've been on the board of a couple and at the fringes of leadership of others. I don't know that I would recognize a SOF that would feel exclusionary to a Catholic family. I'd like to be able to identify that and help the group make changes to the SOF.

 

I'm sure that I would notice a SOF that called the Catholic church names or bad mouthed the Pope. But what other things might go over my mostly protestant head?

 

The places I have encountered problems usually have to do with two specific areas. The first being the Sola Scriptura doctrine where the Bible is the sole authority and the other has to do with salvation by faith alone.

[AngieW in Texas]

I have seen statements of faith worded specifically to exclude some Christian religions. I remember a family where the dh was an Eastern Orthodox priest that was denied membership because they weren't considered Christian according to the statement of faith the group had.

[Parrothead]

I want my *church* to have a statement of faith, but I don't do other groups. (Seriously, I need a t-shirt that says "Warning: Doesn't Play Well With Others!") I guess I'm glad! If someone else had *pre-sifted* all my relationships for me, I'd miss some good friends. :)

 

I think that *everyone* can find *some* piece of common ground...even if it's *just* big enough to stand *nose to nose* on. We don't need to *always* feel like we need to *change* people. I kind of feel like that's not my job.

 

I could see asking a *teacher* within a group to sign a statement of faith and then providing *that* to the diverse group of members, so THEY can choose whether or not they want their kids TAUGHT by that person, rather than such a broad exclusion on the front end.

 

I think it's kind of boring with everyone sitting around agreeing with each all the time. LOL!

OMG! I want that T-shirt.

 

Yeah, SOFs are usually worded to keep people like me out of the club. I guess that's OK, since I don't approve of them on principle anyway.

This.

 

I often wonder how children who are so limited in who they are allowed to associate with able to deal with society in general. Children that are homeschooled, go to church and church co-ops for their only interaction with other people. The whole "like-minded people" thing is so very limiting. How does one associate only with like-minded people?

 

Isn't this how bigotry is perpetuated?

 

And before someone goes off half cocked, I'm not calling anyone a bigot.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Parrothead

[OnTheBrink]

Nah, I think bigotry is created when there is a hatred toward those who are of "different mind" expressed and embraced. I don't necessarily believe that a child who's home schooled, and sees mostly others who share his world view as bigots.

 

My dd only has friends from church or her hs music class. Not by intent, really, but that's how it's worked out. She's not "against" anyone else. She realizes there are other people in the world who think and believe differently than we do. It's a non-issue, really. I mean, we don't point at Muslims (and I pick them because it's easy to pick out a Muslim woman due to her dress) and think evil of them. Same with people of other nationalities or faiths. They're just there. In my house, being different than we are doesn't equate being allowed to arbitrarily hate, ridicule, or disparage.

[milovany]

I remember a family where the dh was an Eastern Orthodox priest that was denied membership because they weren't considered Christian according to the statement of faith the group had.

 

:blink:

[Ellie]

I would not join a *support group* that required a statement of faith, even though I fully believed everything in it, just on principle. I would join one that required the *leaders* to sign it, but not the members. The requirement to sign a SOF makes the group just too isolated and exclusionist and elitest.

[Parrothead]

Nah, I think bigotry is created when there is a hatred toward those who are of "different mind" expressed and embraced. I don't necessarily believe that a child who's home schooled, and sees mostly others who share his world view as bigots.

 

My dd only has friends from church or her hs music class. Not by intent, really, but that's how it's worked out. She's not "against" anyone else. She realizes there are other people in the world who think and believe differently than we do. It's a non-issue, really. I mean, we don't point at Muslims (and I pick them because it's easy to pick out a Muslim woman due to her dress) and think evil of them. Same with people of other nationalities or faiths. They're just there. In my house, being different than we are doesn't equate being allowed to arbitrarily hate, ridicule, or disparage.

Okay, maybe not bigotry since by definition bigotry includes hate. I suppose the term would be old fashioned discrimination. "We do not want you in our group because you are ________>" Or, "We do not want you in our group because you do not believe_______."

 

I don't know. Either way I will not join a group that requires a SOF. I'd rather base my associations with people on something other than faith or politics. I suppose since I've been on the wrong end of religious discrimination I look at things differently.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Parrothead

[KnitWit]

I would not join a *support group* that required a statement of faith, even though I fully believed everything in it, just on principle. I would join one that required the *leaders* to sign it, but not the members. The requirement to sign a SOF makes the group just too isolated and exclusionist and elitest.

 

We are very much alike. I have this rebellious, non-conformist side that wells up in certain situations...

 

I guess I have to say, also, I don't necessarily need a support group to provide *spiritual instruction* of any kind for my child. I'll take care of that at home and through my church. I think they should cover the academics and field trips...but therein lies another problem for me...I absolutely DESPISE homeschool *group* field trips! LOL! See...I need that shirt! LOL!

[Joanne]

I believe in the right of groups to develop and hold one.

 

In general, though, I would not want my family to participate in groups that require one.

 

Oddly, I believe in the Apostles Creed meaning I am believe in the general idea most Christians do. But I generally don't believe the other stuff that usually goes with groups of homeschooling Christians who would want, sign, embrace and require a SOF.

[kiana]

I'd have no problem with a statement of faith for leaders/teachers and a statement of respect and behaviour for others, but I really don't like the idea of the statement required for anyone in the group. I wouldn't join one, just on principle, even if I believed everything it said.

 

This is not to say they don't have a right to have whatever statement they want, but I have an equal right to start my own group/join a different one if I don't like their policies.

[Rosy]

I often wonder how children who are so limited in who they are allowed to associate with able to deal with society in general. Children that are homeschooled, go to church and church co-ops for their only interaction with other people. The whole "like-minded people" thing is so very limiting. How does one associate only with like-minded people?

I think it's quite an assumption that a family who participates in a co-op that requires a SOF does not interact or associate with anyone who isn't like-minded. Most of the Christian homeschoolers I know are in a wide variety of activities beside church and co-op, many are not limited to Christians only. And that's not getting into neighbors, family members, etc.

 

Wanting a co-op experience to conform to a set of beliefs does not mean someone is a bigot or doesn't welcome relationships with people who are ideologically different. For me, it means that in a situation where I won't be directly supervising my kids, I can trust that the people who are with them are not teaching them something fundamentally different than what I believe. (And FTR, we only require a SOF of teachers, not members.)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The places I have encountered problems usually have to do with two specific areas. The first being the Sola Scriptura doctrine where the Bible is the sole authority and the other has to do with salvation by faith alone.

 

Hmm. Thanks.

 

I haven't had been in a group that required signing an SOF for membership but was in one that required it for potential board members. (Though it was more than the SOF requirement that made me hesitate to be a leader.) Thinking back, that SOF probably would have been a sticking point.

 

I'll try to keep this in mind so if I run into it again I can ask if that is the intention of the SOF. I don't think that either requirement would have made me think twice because it IS so common within protestant circles.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I want my *church* to have a statement of faith, but I don't do other groups. (Seriously, I need a t-shirt that says "Warning: Doesn't Play Well With Others!") I guess I'm glad! If someone else had *pre-sifted* all my relationships for me, I'd miss some good friends. :)

 

I think that *everyone* can find *some* piece of common ground...even if it's *just* big enough to stand *nose to nose* on. We don't need to *always* feel like we need to *change* people. I kind of feel like that's not my job.

 

I could see asking a *teacher* within a group to sign a statement of faith and then providing *that* to the diverse group of members, so THEY can choose whether or not they want their kids TAUGHT by that person, rather than such a broad exclusion on the front end.

 

I think it's kind of boring with everyone sitting around agreeing with each all the time. LOL!

 

I can understand that some groups consider their homeschool support group to be an extension of their faith community, either within a church framework or as part of their larger faith community. If faith centered or infused education is one of their priorities, I can hardly blame them for wanting that to be a condition of membership.

 

I was amused several years back when I asked to join a Yahoo Group for DC area homeschoolers. It was an inclusive list that had as a requirement that you already be a member of an inclusive group. And they decided what was considered an inclusive group. Although to give them credit, they did change this requirement when I asked about it. (But it did make me chuckle.)

[NanceXToo]

All I can say, is I'm SO glad that the homeschool group I am a part of is the way it is. No "statements of faith." No exclusionary tactics. See, my family has a Jewish background, not a Christian one, and our lifestyle is not a particularly religious one... but I'm a mom. I homeschool. I want to be around other homeschooling moms, and I want my kids to be around other homeschooling kids, and I want to chat about how homeschooling is going, and help organize fun activities and things of that nature- and I'm glad I have the opportunity to do all of that.

 

The majority of the women in my group are Christian. And that's fine. I respect their beliefs, and fortunately, they respect mine. I enjoy chatting with them on topics other than religion, they know I'm not Christian and yet we can still 'hang out' and socialize and our kids can still enjoy each other's company. They know I'm a nice person. They know my kids are friendly kids. They know I'm not going to corrupt their children, that I'm not trying to lure them away from Jesus in some devious plot for their souls, and that Jewishness isn't contagious haha... I'm not some horrid, immoral person they need to watch out for at all costs. I'm just another homeschooling mom.

 

I mean, why do people have to think and feel and believe just like everybody else to get together in a homeschooling group? Why does it have to be some "Christians only" exclusive club? I mean I guess if people want to be a part of that... more power to them. But is tolerance and acceptance and diversity really so awful?

 

I'm glad that the people in my group aren't like that, because I've made some good friends in this group- Christian and otherwise. And I like to think that I've had a lot to OFFER the group, too, since I've been made a co-organizer and do a lot of planning and helping when it comes to our classes, activities and field trips.

 

I wouldn't sign a "statement of faith." I wouldn't join a group that required one. And I'd never start a group that required one, either.

 

And my kids and I would probably have been pretty discouraged/hurt/lonely these days if the only group we'd been able to find in our area was one that didn't want any part of us because we came from a Jewish background (or whatever)...and making someone feel like that doesn't seem very "Christian" to me.

 

ETA: After reading the two posts below I want to add that I would not mind an informal statement that basically meant that I understood that members might talk about their religion, pray, etc., and that I shouldn't teach anything in a class that was against their religious beliefs, etc. That stuff is fine and not the same as "You must believe X or you can't join."

Edited July 1, 2010 by NanceXToo

[Violet Crown]

Our local Catholic hs support group used to have an informal Statement of Faith. When somebody would ask the group leader what the policy for non-Catholics was, she would answer, "If you don't mind that we're Catholic, we don't mind that you're not."

 

I often wished we had t-shirts with that.

[angela in ohio]

Our local Catholic hs support group used to have an informal Statement of Faith. When somebody would ask the group leader what the policy for non-Catholics was, she would answer, "If you don't mind that we're Catholic, we don't mind that you're not."

 

 

That was basically how the statement of faith works for most groups I have been in locally. You don't have to personally agree with the statement, you are just acknowledging that it is the group's foundation and that you won't be outraged when someone prays or talks about God.

[fivetails]

The group that we belong to has a SOF, but it isn't required unless you want to hold a "leadership" position. I do think that some members would like it to be required, but I hope that doesn't happen.

 

Woolybear, here's an example of an SOF (this is from the group we joined)

 

We believe:

 

The Bible is the only inspired and infallible written Word of God. (2 Timothy 3:16)

 

There is one living and true God who exists in three persons; Father, Son and Holy Spirit (the Trinity). (Matthew 28:19)

 

All men are sinners and in need of salvation. (Romans 3:23)

 

The Lord Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, died on the cross, rose bodily from the dead and ascended into heaven.

 

We are saved by grace through faith, which is a gift of God, not of our own works. Those who confess that Jesus is Lord, and believe in their hearts that He rose from the dead, will be saved. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9)

 

That our hope is not in the things of this world, but on our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have received eternal life. (2 Corinthians 4:16-18)

 

 

I've known a few people who signed SOFs even when they didn't fully agree with them, because it was the only way to participate in any activities with other homeschoolers....I'm not saying it's right or wrong of them to do it, I'm just saying that I've known of it happening in places that only had one homeschool group/very few homeschoolers.

[SailorMom]

Oh, I agree completely with a group having a SOF just to be upfront about the group's main religious beliefs, you know - we're going to talk about this, and our leaders feel this way....My dc and I are open to all religious beliefs and very respectful of them, so we don't mind hearing about it all....

Also - I think every group has a right to run anyway they'd like to, even if it does exclude many from the group. They are private, and do not have to be inclusive.

When it came to me signing the SOF, I couldn't - since I did not share the beliefs. It did make me sad for our kids, though.

I will say, that the other co-op in our area which is VERY Christian, for a long time did not have a SOF, and we were very involved for about three years. But then they decided to combine with a larger group in the area which did have one as part of becoming a member- we ended up extricating ourselves from the group completely. Again, it was sad that my kids no longer had any contact with the friends made there.

[KnitWit]

An observation based on reading some current threads here:

 

It is interesting to me how *we* Christians feel the need to EXCLUDE those who are not of the same belief as us from all possible opportunities for *relationship* (i.e. our groups, our circle of friends, our homes). Yet, we think we can be *effective witnesses* with people who don't know us from Adam and Eve via discussion on *message boards* or from posting one-liners on FB status.

 

It's so much easier to *say it* than to *live it*.

 

This is just a *general thought*, for a *general group of people*, regarding *general situations* and is not meant to inflame or judge any particular poster(s). :)

[Karenciavo]

Oh, I agree completely with a group having a SOF just to be upfront about the group's main religious beliefs, you know - we're going to talk about this, and our leaders feel this way....My dc and I are open to all religious beliefs and very respectful of them, so we don't mind hearing about it all....

Also - I think every group has a right to run anyway they'd like to, even if it does exclude many from the group. They are private, and do not have to be inclusive.

 

Thank you for posting this.

[littlebug42]

The group that we belong to has a SOF, but it isn't required unless you want to hold a "leadership" position. I do think that some members would like it to be required, but I hope that doesn't happen.

 

Woolybear, here's an example of an SOF (this is from the group we joined)

 

We believe:

 

The Bible is the only inspired and infallible written Word of God. (2 Timothy 3:16)

 

There is one living and true God who exists in three persons; Father, Son and Holy Spirit (the Trinity). (Matthew 28:19)

 

All men are sinners and in need of salvation. (Romans 3:23)

 

The Lord Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, died on the cross, rose bodily from the dead and ascended into heaven.

 

We are saved by grace through faith, which is a gift of God, not of our own works. Those who confess that Jesus is Lord, and believe in their hearts that He rose from the dead, will be saved. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9)

That our hope is not in the things of this world, but on our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have received eternal life. (2 Corinthians 4:16-18)

 

 

I've known a few people who signed SOFs even when they didn't fully agree with them, because it was the only way to participate in any activities with other homeschoolers....I'm not saying it's right or wrong of them to do it, I'm just saying that I've known of it happening in places that only had one homeschool group/very few homeschoolers.

 

The bolded part is a more concrete example of a SOF that I could not sign as a Catholic. I did encounter one co-op group here that told me I didn't have to believe it, I just had to sign it. I cannot in good conscience sign something that I don't believe just so my kids can take a drama class.

[Karenciavo]

The bolded part is a more concrete example of a SOF that I could not sign as a Catholic. I did encounter one co-op group here that told me I didn't have to believe it, I just had to sign it. I cannot in good conscience sign something that I don't believe just so my kids can take a drama class.

 

:001_huh: Ok, kind of defeats the purpose. :lol: I wouldn't want to be in that group either.

[fivetails]

The group that we belong to has a SOF, but it isn't required unless you want to hold a "leadership" position. I do think that some members would like it to be required, but I hope that doesn't happen.

 

Woolybear, here's an example of an SOF (this is from the group we joined)

 

We believe:

 

The Bible is the only inspired and infallible written Word of God. (2 Timothy 3:16)

 

There is one living and true God who exists in three persons; Father, Son and Holy Spirit (the Trinity). (Matthew 28:19)

 

All men are sinners and in need of salvation. (Romans 3:23)

 

The Lord Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, died on the cross, rose bodily from the dead and ascended into heaven.

 

We are saved by grace through faith, which is a gift of God, not of our own works. Those who confess that Jesus is Lord, and believe in their hearts that He rose from the dead, will be saved. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9)

 

That our hope is not in the things of this world, but on our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have received eternal life. (2 Corinthians 4:16-18)

 

 

I've known a few people who signed SOFs even when they didn't fully agree with them, because it was the only way to participate in any activities with other homeschoolers....I'm not saying it's right or wrong of them to do it, I'm just saying that I've known of it happening in places that only had one homeschool group/very few homeschoolers.

 

The bolded part is a more concrete example of a SOF that I could not sign as a Catholic. I did encounter one co-op group here that told me I didn't have to believe it, I just had to sign it. I cannot in good conscience sign something that I don't believe just so my kids can take a drama class.

 

Ahhhh. I don't know very much about the Catholic faith (although dd13 and I did attend a Catholic service - mass? - the other week to see what it was like. I was/am curious about it) so I wouldn't have caught/known that. I didn't write the SOF (we're the newest in the group, members for a year and a half) but it gets discussed sometimes... maybe I can point that out to the others.

 

The people I've known who signed SOFs regardless of beliefs weren't trying to do anything wrong, I don't think - just wanting to be connected with the homeschool community in there town/city/etc.

[KnitWit]

Oh, I agree completely with a group having a SOF just to be upfront about the group's main religious beliefs, you know - we're going to talk about this, and our leaders feel this way....My dc and I are open to all religious beliefs and very respectful of them, so we don't mind hearing about it all....

Also - I think every group has a right to run anyway they'd like to, even if it does exclude many from the group. They are private, and do not have to be inclusive.

When it came to me signing the SOF, I couldn't - since I did not share the beliefs. It did make me sad for our kids, though.

I will say, that the other co-op in our area which is VERY Christian, for a long time did not have a SOF, and we were very involved for about three years. But then they decided to combine with a larger group in the area which did have one as part of becoming a member- we ended up extricating ourselves from the group completely. Again, it was sad that my kids no longer had any contact with the friends made there.

 

For the record, I *do* agree with this principle. I would just *prefer* another setting...*if* I were to decide to be in a gr.... gro..... group! There! I said it!

[NanceXToo]

Sure they have the right. But there's a difference between having the right to do something, and something being the right thing to do. Just my opinion!

 

Also, serious question here, not meant to be inflammatory: From what I do know of Christianity and Jesus- (after living two years in a methodist foster home as a teen, and having an ex husband who is Catholic) I don't think Jesus would have turned the Jews away (for example). Right? I mean, seriously, can you picture him starting a group and saying "No Jews allowed?" Unfathomable! So why would his followers? If anything, you'd think they'd be glad to have "outside" members who they might rub off on so to speak lol. Again, I can see saying: "You don't have to be X religion to join but most of us are and so you should know that there may be religious leanings, prayer etc." or "You should know that our group is founded by X religion's leaders and so some of our classes may be religious in nature and you have to decide whether to attend; and/or you may not teach classes that are against our religious teachings if you were to teach a co-op class" or some such. And then just leave it up to the person if they still want to join.

 

But just outright we won't welcome you if you don't believe the exact same way we believe? You can't join? Again, like I said: Yep, they have the right to say that. But having the right doesn't make doing it the right thing to do.

 

Not that I'd want to be in a group with people who felt like that anyway.

[Kathleen in VA]

I think the two kinds of groups being discussed here - support groups and co-ops - are two very different things. The very nature of a co-op (if I understand the term correctly) implies that everyone who is a member will end up being in some sort of leadership position eventually. Isn't the idea of a co-op to share the responsibilities of teaching the children, hence cooperative?

 

Anyway, I think it is a kindness for a group to state their beliefs up front so everyone knows what page they are on. For the same reason that I homeschool my children - want them to learn what I believe is the truth about the world, etc. - I wouldn't want someone teaching my child in a class something that went against my fundamental beliefs. I am not against introducing my children to the idea that others don't agree with me and that there are other viewpoints out there, I just don't want them being told by a person in authority that those things are true.

 

I believe a co-op situation warrants that the parents sign something that shows they agree with the purpose of the co-op, which in many cases is to teach from a biblical perspective. Obviously if that is not your cup of tea, then don't sign it and don't participate. Start your own co-op. But the very nature of a co-op pretty much demands that everyone be in agreement, right?

[NanceXToo]

But the very nature of a co-op pretty much demands that everyone be in agreement, right?

 

Well, I guess it depends. If the idea is to teach all religious based classes, then I guess so.

 

Our group does both social stuff and some classes. The classes aren't religious in nature at all, they're just...like, I don't know. One might be a "tinkering" class where the kids take things apart and put them back together. One might be a "science experiment class" where you do all these different things with eggs. One might be a "short story workshop" where you talk about plot and setting and characters and so on. They aren't the kind of thing that's going to TEACH religion- they also aren't the kind of thing that's going to go against anyone else's religious beliefs.

[Parrothead]

I think it's quite an assumption that a family who participates in a co-op that requires a SOF does not interact or associate with anyone who isn't like-minded. Most of the Christian homeschoolers I know are in a wide variety of activities beside church and co-op, many are not limited to Christians only. And that's not getting into neighbors, family members, etc.

 

Wanting a co-op experience to conform to a set of beliefs does not mean someone is a bigot or doesn't welcome relationships with people who are ideologically different. For me, it means that in a situation where I won't be directly supervising my kids, I can trust that the people who are with them are not teaching them something fundamentally different than what I believe. (And FTR, we only require a SOF of teachers, not members.)

Like, I said, I have been on the other end of it. I know every one is different, but I only have my experience to go by. We were left out of the loop for homeschool activities and never got newsletter. It was so bad that the family that was "in charge" shut down the children's church ministry that they ran because we were the wrong kind of Christians and they did not want dd to come. So yeah, I do have issues with people who only want to associate with their kind. I do think it is discriminatory, and depending on what one is teaching one's kids it could possibly be bigotry.

 

At what point do you allow your children to learn about the differences that are out in the world?

[KnitWit]

I see your point Kathleen...but sometimes it goes beyond that.

 

I was once a part of a *Christian* homeschooling group that met in a large Southern Baptist church and most of the members were members of said church. There was a really neat family who were also members. Both parents worked, but it was so neat to see them tag-teaming homeschooling. Dad frequently came when Mom was working, vice versa. GREAT kids! So pleasant to be around. Happy people, I really liked them. Anyway, about two years into it, I guess someone got to know them to the point of ferreting out the info that they were MORMONS. <gasp> Now, mind you, for two years they had respected the beliefs of this group enough that it took THAT LONG for someone to find out. But, find out she did, and went straight to the leadership with it and they were turned away at that point!! I was flabbergasted!

 

I figure it was their loss. Great friends they were. I was sad when they moved.

[Parrothead]

Oh, I agree completely with a group having a SOF just to be upfront about the group's main religious beliefs, you know - we're going to talk about this, and our leaders feel this way....My dc and I are open to all religious beliefs and very respectful of them, so we don't mind hearing about it all....

Also - I think every group has a right to run anyway they'd like to, even if it does exclude many from the group. They are private, and do not have to be inclusive.

.

This is true, but one would think that if one wanted to join a group of homeschoolers because one was a homeschooler that there would be fairly simple to do. But that isn't the case. In many cases, one has to be the right kind of homeschooler to join the local group. And often this group is the only local group.

[Sweetest]

In my area, the biggest homeschool group requires a SOF that I can't sign as a Catholic. To me it is blatantly Anti-catholic, and I wonder if the person who wrote it did specifically intend to exclude Catholics. For those of you who were interested in what makes a SOF unsignable for a Catholic, here is a perfect example from my local group (bolded lines are problematic):

 

Our Statement of Faith

 

We believe the Bible to be the only God-inspired, infallible, supreme and final authority for all faith and life.

 

We believe that there is one God, eternally in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

We believe in the deity of Lord, Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal return in power and glory.

 

We believe that people were created in the image of God, but fell into sin and are therefore lost, and only those who are born of the Holy Spirit are saved from their sins.

 

We believe that salvation is a gift of God's grace and we do not trust in personal works, but only in the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ.

 

We believe the ministry of the Holy Spirit is to convict individuals; and to indwell, guide, instruct, and empower the believer for godly living and service.

 

We believe in the bodily resurrection of both the saved and the lost: the saved to everlasting blessedness and joy with God, the lost to judgment and everlasting conscious punishment.

 

We believe in the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord, Jesus Christ.

 

The problem with the first statement is the word "only". Catholics do believe all those things about the bible, we just don't believe the bible is the "only" authority - our belief also includes the authority of Sacred Tradition and the Pope. Take out the word only and I could agree with this statement.

 

If the second statement stopped at the word "grace", Catholics could accept this statement. However, we do trust in personal works (the sacraments) when they are accompanied by faith. While, we do believe that Jesus' sacrificial death is paramount to our salvation, we don't believe it is the "only" thing that is important.

 

I'm not saying I don't think this group should exclude me. If their intent is to exclude Catholic, then that is their right. It does make me sad that many people in this group probably don't even realize that they exclude Catholics, or that Catholics join the group without understanding that the SOF is not in accord with our beliefs.

 

Also, I must admit that thier name bothers me: "Christian Home Educators", I would be much more understanding if the called themselves "Protestant Home Educators" :glare:

[milovany]

We did the "Bible Bee" last year and had to sign a statement of faith that as Orthodox Christians we weren't fully aligned with (the sola scriptura thing). I called to ask, and was told that we didn't have to agree with it, just agree not to question it or create a ruckus of any kind about it.

[Sweetest]

We did the "Bible Bee" last year and had to sign a statement of faith that as Orthodox Christians we weren't fully aligned with (the sola scriptura thing). I called to ask, and was told that we didn't have to agree with it, just agree not to question it or create a ruckus of any kind about it.

 

I think this is the right way to do it. Unfortunately the SOF I would have to sign requires me to actually "believe". I would be perfectly willing to sign a form agreeing to respect and not violate the groups SOF, that's something I do every day anyway :001_smile:

 

I understand why Christian groups want their views to be respected and propagated, I just don't see why we have to exclude others in order to achieve this. I would agree with one of the PPs that such exclusion is counterintuitive to our Christian faith. Jesus didn't shun people because they didn't yet accept him, why should we be any different?

[KnitWit]

We did the "Bible Bee" last year and had to sign a statement of faith that as Orthodox Christians we weren't fully aligned with (the sola scriptura thing). I called to ask, and was told that we didn't have to agree with it, just agree not to question it or create a ruckus of any kind about it.

 

This is how my Mormon friends viewed agreeing to be in that group.

[Ellie]

We are very much alike. I have this rebellious, non-conformist side that wells up in certain situations...

(((soul sister)))):D

 

I guess I have to say, also, I don't necessarily need a support group to provide *spiritual instruction* of any kind for my child. I'll take care of that at home and through my church.

Oh, but see, what they're worried about is that your spiritual beliefs might spill over onto someone else's children and contaminate them.

 

I think they should cover the academics and field trips...but therein lies another problem for me...I absolutely DESPISE homeschool *group* field trips! LOL! See...I need that shirt! LOL!

I don't think a support group should have anything to do with academics at all. That's what the parents are doing. :D

 

I'm not fond of many homeschool field trips, but I think you'd like mine. They're orderly and start on time.:D

[weaver_67579]

I think it's quite an assumption that a family who participates in a co-op that requires a SOF does not interact or associate with anyone who isn't like-minded. Most of the Christian homeschoolers I know are in a wide variety of activities beside church and co-op, many are not limited to Christians only. And that's not getting into neighbors, family members, etc.

 

Wanting a co-op experience to conform to a set of beliefs does not mean someone is a bigot or doesn't welcome relationships with people who are ideologically different. For me, it means that in a situation where I won't be directly supervising my kids, I can trust that the people who are with them are not teaching them something fundamentally different than what I believe. (And FTR, we only require a SOF of teachers, not members.)

 

that someone that doesn't hold the exact same beliefs would be so rude as to indoctrinate the kids of others? I would find it incredibly rude for others to tell me or my kids how to believe and would not push my beliefs on anyone else.

 

I heard of a group starting to form and volunteered to teach science. I am a major science nerd and worked in a laboratory for 11 years. They would not let me teach chemistry experiments to elementary kids because I did not hold the same exact beliefs as the person setting it up. What did they think I was going to teach when I was dumping chemicals? There would have been no reason for any subject causing trouble to come up. If It did, I would have told the kid to ask his/her parents and said so to the leader. Did she assume I was lying?

 

Do such groups that do exclude others not exactly like them assume everyone is out to drag the kids from their family's beliefs? I don't know if I have ever met anyone so rude as to try that among my less conservative Christian friends. Now on the other side-some of the we don't want you because you are not like me people have been rude to me and even felt the need to send me tracts and websites so I could "see the light". Do they also think that at 40 years of age I am too much of an idiot to make up my own mind on belifs or that some arguments from their church would sway me on the spot?

 

BTW a bunch of us rejects from the conservative groups have started our own group and are having a blast. There are a wide variety of faiths or lack of and we get along very well. Nobody has pushed their faith or lack of on anyone else and we focus on homechooling the kids-not what church we go to. I have never fit into a homeschool group as well as this one and am thankful it is here. I have belonged to some Christian groups and never seemed to fit well-even though I am a Christian. They seemed a bit too clicky to me.

 

Obviously as to the OP-I'm not a big statement of faith person. I find it is just an exclusionary tactic. Why say you are a Christian group instead of what you really mean is we are group of people that go to XYZ church and/or adhere to their standards? That would save poor scleps like me from even going farther than looking at your website or application.

 

DISCLAIMER

You is a generic you-not a specific person.

 

Really I am not trying to be snarky, but I am trying to understand why I would be excluded from such groups (not that I would want to be included in one at this point-but there was a time when that was the only option in my area when I was beginning to homeschool). I do wonder if/why such groups seem to assume the worst in others as far at the penchant for rude behavior.

Edited July 1, 2010 by weaver_67579