Boy can't attend grad. ceremony b/c of prank and FB post

[unsinkable]

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/tech/Facebook-F-bomb-Implodes-Seniors-Graduation--96096574.html

 

This is a private Catholic high school and the boy dropped water balloons and then posted F--- the teachers who said I'd never amount to anything.

 

The school said he can finish his course work and graduate, but not attend the ceremony.

 

Good for the school.

[Chris in VA]

Better he learn it now than when his boss fires him.

[unsinkable]

Better he learn it now than when his boss fires him.

 

:lol: :iagree:

[Pamela H in Texas]

eh, I have mixed feelings about it.

 

He shouldn't have done what he did and I think he was terribly disrespectful. Being private school, he's probably fortunate he didn't get expelled.

 

However, graduation is a once in a lifetime thing. I don't know that I would EVER take that away from someone unless it was something that made their presence there inappropriate (terroist threats?).

 

And at the same time, I think the school needs to uphold it's rules and be clear and firm.

 

Blah on him for putting the school and it's staff and his mother in this position!

[NanceXToo]

So he cursed on his facebook page- uh, if that was written on his own personal computer, his own personal facebook page, on his own personal time (i.e. not at school using a school computer), then the school should NOT have any authority to "punish" him for that. That's between him and his parents.

 

So for me what this means is that they are preventing him from the graduation ceremony because he dropped some water balloons.

 

Too harsh?

 

IMHO- yes.

 

P.S. And if he really had teachers who said he'd never amount to anything, there's a bigger issue here than what he did wrong. And I wouldn't be surprised if it were true, since I can recall a particular 10th grade social studies teacher who asked one day "Does anyone have any questions?" And when I raised my hand, she looked at me, said "Hold on, let me get an intelligent question first" and then pointed to a boy behind me. This was at a private catholic school, btw (and I'm not Catholic but my mother had thought it might be a better/safer school at the time than the public schools in our area). Some teachers are just nasty.

Edited June 14, 2010 by NanceXToo

[elegantlion]

So he cursed on his facebook page- uh, if that was written on his own personal computer, his own personal facebook page, on his own personal time (i.e. not at school using a school computer), then the school should NOT have any authority to "punish" him for that. That's between him and his parents.

 

So for me what this means is that they are preventing him from the graduation ceremony because he dropped some water balloons.

 

Too harsh?

 

IMHO- yes.

 

P.S. And if he really had teachers who said he'd never amount to anything, there's a bigger issue here than what he did wrong. And I wouldn't be surprised if it were true, since I can recall a particular 10th grade social studies teacher who asked one day "Does anyone have any questions?" And when I raised my hand, she looked at me, said "Hold on, let me get an intelligent question first" and then pointed to a boy behind me. This was at a private catholic school, btw (and I'm not Catholic but my mother had thought it might be a better/safer school at the time than the public schools in our area). Some teachers are just nasty.

 

:iagree: It says he "participated in a senior prank", which sounds like more than one person was involved. Did they all get suspended from walking?

 

I agree again F-ing the teachers is freedom of speech, it was not a threat.

 

I'm more upset that there are teachers in private schools that tell their students they will never amount to anything, whether it's literally said or implied (as in the above example).

Edited June 14, 2010 by elegantlion
first cup of coffee corrections

[unsinkable]

So he cursed on his facebook page- uh, if that was written on his own personal computer, his own personal facebook page, on his own personal time (i.e. not at school using a school computer), then the school should NOT have any authority to "punish" him for that. That's between him and his parents.

 

So for me what this means is that they are preventing him from the graduation ceremony because he dropped some water balloons.

 

Too harsh?

 

IMHO- yes.

 

P.S. And if he really had teachers who said he'd never amount to anything, there's a bigger issue here than what he did wrong. And I wouldn't be surprised if it were true, since I can recall a particular 10th grade social studies teacher who asked one day "Does anyone have any questions?" And when I raised my hand, she looked at me, said "Hold on, let me get an intelligent question first" and then pointed to a boy behind me. This was at a private catholic school, btw (and I'm not Catholic but my mother had thought it might be a better/safer school at the time than the public schools in our area). Some teachers are just nasty.

 

:grouphug: What a witch!

 

I went to a Catholic girls high school and I can still remember some of the hurtful things teachers said. But I also had 2 nuns who changed my life in a positive direction. One "made" me go to Al-anon. The other taught/mentored me in an independant study class so I could graduate. I needed the credit b/c this jerk of a history teacher kicked me out of his class b/c I skipped too many classes. Another teacher told me the jerk was very offended by my behavior b/c I went from being his best student to not caring. Red flag for a troubled student, anyone? And instead of helping me, this jerk kicked me out.

[dangermom]

I'm not sure what to think. I don't buy the "freedom of speech" argument--he's not being punished by the government and he hasn't been silenced. He says himself that he had been warned but had never taken it seriously until he got some consequences.

 

Perhaps facebook ought to be between a kid and his parents, but it's public too. And FB/online events routinely disrupt school these days. It's a difficult issue, and I don't think it can be dealt with easily.

[unsinkable]

What about this aspect...what if this boy has as his FB info his high school and then he swears like that on FB.

 

Is right (or wrong) for the school not to want that lang. associated with the school?

 

ETA: We also don't know for sure what the teachers said to this boy.

[ciyates]

The boy was warned. He was warned about what he writes and the prank he committed. He deserves whatever punishment they give him.

 

Graduate is a ceremony the school honest to honor the graduates. This young man showed no respect to the school or the teachers. Why should they honor him as well?

[Tidbits of Learning]

So he cursed on his facebook page- uh, if that was written on his own personal computer, his own personal facebook page, on his own personal time (i.e. not at school using a school computer), then the school should NOT have any authority to "punish" him for that. That's between him and his parents.

 

So for me what this means is that they are preventing him from the graduation ceremony because he dropped some water balloons.

 

Too harsh?

 

IMHO- yes.

 

 

 

Most private schools/religious schools do make you sign a code of conduct when enrolling. Your parents do if you do not and activity off campus as well as on reflects on the school. It isn't public school. You can be punished for acts that are considered to break the school's moral and ethical policies. It will be in the handbook and would have been went over at every orientation at the beginning of the year. This being a Catholic school. I am sure that it was went over and the boy knew what he was risking.

I went to private schools for 10 years. I have seen others that were seniors thrown out for their behavior at off campus parties and such.

When you attend a private/religious school you are representing their belief and values on campus and off.

[Tidbits of Learning]

 

I'm more upset that there are teachers in private schools that tell their students they will never amount to anything, whether it's literally said or implied (as in the above example).

 

I have been to both public and private schools and there are teachers at both that belittle students b/c they have the power. We have no clue how this boy's teachers treated him.

[Mary in VA]

He was involved in a senior prank involving water balloons and was awaiting punishment for that. Instead of silently waiting to find out what the consequences would be, he had to mouth off on FB. To me this demonstrates a terrible attitude and poor decision making! I would bet the punishment for the water balloons alone would have been minor. But he was totally disrespectful to the administrators and teachers. Yes he exercised his freedom of speech and now he is reaping the consequences! And although the article doesn't mention past behavior, I wouldn't be surprised if this student hasn't demonstrated this same attitude in the past.

 

Mary

[Mom2J112903]

So he cursed on his facebook page- uh, if that was written on his own personal computer, his own personal facebook page, on his own personal time (i.e. not at school using a school computer), then the school should NOT have any authority to "punish" him for that. That's between him and his parents.

 

So for me what this means is that they are preventing him from the graduation ceremony because he dropped some water balloons.

 

Too harsh?

 

IMHO- yes.

 

P.S. And if he really had teachers who said he'd never amount to anything, there's a bigger issue here than what he did wrong. And I wouldn't be surprised if it were true, since I can recall a particular 10th grade social studies teacher who asked one day "Does anyone have any questions?" And when I raised my hand, she looked at me, said "Hold on, let me get an intelligent question first" and then pointed to a boy behind me. This was at a private catholic school, btw (and I'm not Catholic but my mother had thought it might be a better/safer school at the time than the public schools in our area). Some teachers are just nasty.

 

:iagree:100%

[Tidbits of Learning]

I'm not sure what to think. I don't buy the "freedom of speech" argument--he's not being punished by the government and he hasn't been silenced. He says himself that he had been warned but had never taken it seriously until he got some consequences.

 

Perhaps facebook ought to be between a kid and his parents, but it's public too. And FB/online events routinely disrupt school these days. It's a difficult issue, and I don't think it can be dealt with easily.

 

I think it is better for kids to learn that social networks are seen by everyone and can have dire consequences. Look at all the people on the internet getting fired for something they posted on facebook or myspace. It happens. IF you write it and put it out there, it can come back to haunt you.

Kids today are a little too free with their words and actions and pictures on these sites. It is as if they think it is a little bubble and no one outside their bubble can see it. I think it is a good lesson learned before you go out into the real world and can't get a job b/c your future boss has looked you up on facebook and no longer thinks you would represent his business well.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Freedom of speech means that you can say your mind without being jailed. It doesn't mean that there won't be any social consequences. I would consider the reaction of the private school that he went to as a social consequence. This is also factoring in what was said earlier about being warned etc.

[angela in ohio]

Better he learn it now than when his boss fires him.

 

I agree. Dh recently fired someone for inappropriate statements on FB. Employers are catching up to this.

 

And I agree, we have no idea what his teachers said to him. We know what a boy who swears on FB and drops water balloons tells us they said.

[Mabelen]

Most private schools/religious schools do make you sign a code of conduct when enrolling. Your parents do if you do not and activity off campus as well as on reflects on the school. It isn't public school. You can be punished for acts that are considered to break the school's moral and ethical policies. It will be in the handbook and would have been went over at every orientation at the beginning of the year. This being a Catholic school. I am sure that it was went over and the boy knew what he was risking.

I went to private schools for 10 years. I have seen others that were seniors thrown out for their behavior at off campus parties and such.

When you attend a private/religious school you are representing their belief and values on campus and off.

 

This has been our experience too. Students are warned that cyberspace missbehavior is subject to consequences too. They are supposed to read and sign the contract, as are their parents or legal guardians. I am sorry for the family and I am sorry the student had bad experiences with certain teachers but he is learning a very important lesson.

[Unicorn.]

So he cursed on his facebook page- uh, if that was written on his own personal computer, his own personal facebook page, on his own personal time (i.e. not at school using a school computer), then the school should NOT have any authority to "punish" him for that. That's between him and his parents.

 

So for me what this means is that they are preventing him from the graduation ceremony because he dropped some water balloons.

 

Too harsh?

 

IMHO- yes.

 

P.S. And if he really had teachers who said he'd never amount to anything, there's a bigger issue here than what he did wrong. And I wouldn't be surprised if it were true, since I can recall a particular 10th grade social studies teacher who asked one day "Does anyone have any questions?" And when I raised my hand, she looked at me, said "Hold on, let me get an intelligent question first" and then pointed to a boy behind me. This was at a private catholic school, btw (and I'm not Catholic but my mother had thought it might be a better/safer school at the time than the public schools in our area). Some teachers are just nasty.

 

:iagree: I think that we forget that just because by law someone is an adult at 18, doesn't mean they have reached an adult level of maturity. Seniors need to blow off steam. I'd rather my kids blow off steam w/ water balloons and cussing on their FB pages, than by getting drunk or worse. And I don't think the school has a right to punish him for what is on his FB page. jmho

[Pretty in Pink]

I think the student got what he deserved. If he needed to blow off steam he should have gone for a jog or hit a punching bag or something. His behavior was unacceptable.

[pqr]

He learned a wonderful lesson, hopefully he will take it to heart.

 

The school also taught all the other students a good lesson.

 

Well done to the school....as to the punk....think next time.

[kalanamak]

I'm more upset that there are teachers in private schools that tell their students they will never amount to anything, whether it's literally said or implied (as in the above example).

 

I still want to eat old garlic and go laugh in the face of the school counselor who told me I would fail in life because I was dropping out of his clic-ridden, jock-dominated, racially tense school with slack academic standards.

 

(Everyone hold your nose) HAH-HAH-HAH.

 

But, I digress. Graduations are overrated. A nice walk with a dog would be more valuable.

[AndyJoy]

Freedom of speech means that you can say your mind without being jailed. It doesn't mean that there won't be any social consequences. I would consider the reaction of the private school that he went to as a social consequence. This is also factoring in what was said earlier about being warned etc.

 

:iagree:He has the freedom to speak, they have the freedom to respond as they see fit.

[SproutMamaK]

“I think it's really too harsh. I know it's a public thing but it's on my personal page, it's freedom of speech,†Camacho said. “ I was always taught to forgive one another. Everyone deserves a second chance,†Camacho said.

 

Hm. And where was his forgiveness for his teachers? He lashed out at them vindictively and then says the onus is on THEM to forgive and forget. how convenient.

 

By the same token, if we're to hold both the student and the teachers to the same standard, this boy is being punished for his actions. Herego, the teachers should be punished for theirs, ie, telling a student he'd be a failure. it seems that both sides are trying to pretend that their actions don't have consequences.

 

 

[scrappyhappymama]

Not allowing him to graduate would be too harsh. Not allowing him to celebrate graduating at a ceremony hosted by the school, seems perfectly within reason to me.

[asta]

:iagree:He has the freedom to speak, they have the freedom to respond as they see fit.

 

Yep.

 

No one threw him in jail for speaking out.

 

 

World. Wide. Web. People need to start getting a clue.

 

 

a

[Renee in NC]

My dh's employee handbook spelled out what was and was not appropriate on social networking sites. People at his job *can* get fired for things they post on Facebook.

 

As for the student, I tell my boys (17 and 12) that you really need to weigh the consequences of the things you do. Be prepared to face the consequences of your decisions.

 

If my ds was the boy in question and was prevented from walking because of the prank, I would be upset if he was singled out over all the others who participated. There is an expectation that if you participate in a senior prank, you will be punished (as long as everyone is punished!)

 

This boy was being punished for plain out nastiness. If he were my ds, I would tell him that he brought this upon himself by not thinking it through before he posted the things he did. A student who said those things to his principal/teachers in person would likely be suspended - this boy said them in a public venue, even.

 

I like that - freedom of speech doesn't mean you get to avoid the social consequences of what you say. I'll have to use that.

[hillfarm]

Re high school graduation ceremony, I haven't thought about mine since a month or so after the event. Hardly one of the most important events of my life. BTW, attendance and recognition at it was a privilege, not a right. And I was a public school student. I imagine my "rights" would have been even less in a private school situation where I had signed a code of conduct and where the administrators have even more power.

 

So back when all these teachers were telling the kid he wouldn't amount to anything, did he or his parents do anything to deal with that then? If it was a problem, did they not care that they were paying for better?

 

IMO, this is an example of someone learning that actions have consequences. Welcome to the real world, Sonny. Free speech is not without consequence, never has been. Just ask the signers of the Declaration of Independence. At least they incurred their consequences while trying to secure "freedom" for a nation, instead of for the impudent thrill of internationally badmouthing the institution their family had just paid to educate them. (Does anyone else here see the irony of him badmouthing the institution his family chose to educate him and upon which potential endorsement he intends to sway colleges to accept him?)

 

This kid needs to take his knocks, learn some valuable lessons, and get on with his life. I hope he now learns the lesson that words are powerful and not to be used thoughtlessly. An 18yo should already know this, but perhaps this kid is a bit slower to pick up on the concept. I don't buy the "18yo seniors need to blow off steam" idea. In many cultures, he would already be a responsible member of the community and head of a household, in charge of feeding and sheltering a wife and children. He needs to step up, take responsibility for his actions and deal with it. Prolonging his apparently undisciplined childhood will not be doing him any favors in the long run.

[May]

:iagree:Actions have consequences. It is a private school and they have the right to make to rules.

[mommaduck]

So he cursed on his facebook page- uh, if that was written on his own personal computer, his own personal facebook page, on his own personal time (i.e. not at school using a school computer), then the school should NOT have any authority to "punish" him for that. That's between him and his parents.

 

So for me what this means is that they are preventing him from the graduation ceremony because he dropped some water balloons.

 

Too harsh?

 

IMHO- yes.

 

P.S. And if he really had teachers who said he'd never amount to anything, there's a bigger issue here than what he did wrong. And I wouldn't be surprised if it were true, since I can recall a particular 10th grade social studies teacher who asked one day "Does anyone have any questions?" And when I raised my hand, she looked at me, said "Hold on, let me get an intelligent question first" and then pointed to a boy behind me. This was at a private catholic school, btw (and I'm not Catholic but my mother had thought it might be a better/safer school at the time than the public schools in our area). Some teachers are just nasty.

 

These were the issues I had. Yes, the kid was disrespectful, but on his own time and on his own turf. The water balloons are not just cause.

 

Most of all, I have a MAJOR issue with ANY teacher that tells a person that "they will never amount to anything"!

[bookfiend]

Since we don't know what the warning entailed, we don't know if he was aware that graduation might have been in jeopardy.

 

What will the lesson be if he is allow to participate in the ceremony? Just say you are sorry and all the unplesantness you caused will vanish?

 

I agree with the principal - being given a diploma (to an institution you have publically ridiculed and disparaged) is being merciful.

[FaithManor]

As a former teacher in a Parochial school, I would like to first say that just because the kid said a teacher or teachers said he'd never amount to anything, doesn't mean it happened! More than once, junior & senior highers at our school who did not like the grade they were given because they refused to do the work, accused teachers of all kinds of "she said this, she said that" and it wasn't true. I hate to say it, but some kids with bad attitudes are also major liars. I am not saying that the teacher/s didn't say it, but without proof, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion either.

 

Secondly, he's a high schooler and I seriously doubt that he was in the school without signing a code of conduct or behavioral contract or some acknowledgement that he'd read the student handbook. In our school, the student had to read the handbook and sign that they'd read it starting in 6th grade or they weren't admitted. Parents also had to sign that they'd read it or no admission. So, if the school has already outlined their position and he knew it ahead of time, then they are not in the wrong.

 

Thirdly, we don't know who he bombed with the water balloons. Another student might be one thing, the 85 year old grandma showing up to see the senior play would be a whole lot worse! So, without more information, we really can't be certain just how bad the incident was. In college, we had students with water balloon launchers made of nylon and surgical tubing. They could launch a water balloon one full block away and when it hit, it was like being smacked with something very hard. One college senior missed out on his degree that year for nailing the college president! He didn't mean to (was aiming for his buddy across the sidewalk) but the bruise on the president's face took more than a week to heal. He looked like he'd been cornered and punched. So, again, we don't really have all the details. The water balloons my kids toss around our blow-up pool are one thing, but some kids take these kinds of antics to rather serious levels.

 

Fourthly, in our school, there were cumulative disciplines. I.E. how long have you been having behavioral problems? If it has been quite a while and all other methods of dealing with you reasonably have been exhausted, then you can bet the next incident is going to be cause for some very serious disciplinary action. So, if this is just one more thing in a long string of inappropriate actions, then he'd have been in serious trouble at our school and I would suspect that this could be the case for this school as well.

 

At any rate, we don't know the whole story so I would side with the school until evidence to the contrary were presented. But, that's coming from a teacher who has been on the receiving end of false accusations "She said this, she said that" just because the student was trying to get out of punishment for stealing. Fortunately, his classmates stood up for me and the administration knew my character and history of excellent interpersonal skills and supported me.

 

As for free speech, well, constitutionally protected free speech means that the government can not prosecute you for your opinion and that includes criticizing the government. But, that does not hold to personal relationships or private enterprise. In this country, one can sue for libel if one's character is maligned without substantiating proof. Speech affects relationships and this is no different. The school provided the boy and his parents with a service, he exercised his free speech to malign them in a public forum (yes, facebook is a public forum - courts have held that there is no expectation of privacy on facebook/my space), and they have taken appropriate action to protect their reputation. He's lucky it wasn't the parochial school I taught at before homeschooling. They would have expelled him and there would not have been a diploma issued. End of discussion! Not negotiable....violation of the student handbook...he would have had to sign the behavioral contract prior to admission. So, no diploma. He would have to transfer his credits to the public school and then wait until next year to graduate through them.

 

Now, if there is substantiation for the allegations against the teacher/s, I am all for them losing their jobs. They are paid to do a job and that job is to attempt to teach and motivate ALL of the students. Yes, some will refuse to do the work, but they weren't hired to go around maligning any student. Their job is to lead to the water. Some won't drink, but that's not their call to make.

 

In the end, they may be doing him a favor because employers are not taking this kind of thing on the chin. The company my husband works for has issued warnings about not talking about sensitive information from work or about conflicts that you have at work in public forums. That's what HR is for and they will take action if libel takes place. Well, eight people were fired from the company last year for going off about their bosses or co-workers on facebook. Because guess what, you friend somebody, who friended somebody, who friended somebody, who knew somebody, .........It gets around and if you can't susbtantiate the claim with evidence, it's libel and it's actionable and it can cause the company a very big legal headache. Additionally, someone else was fired, not for libel, but for leaking company secrets on facebook because he wanted to brag about the work he was doing. Not too smart given that he was contracted to a Department of Defense project!

 

Maybe this life lesson will help him make wiser choices in the future.

Faith

Edited June 23, 2010 by FaithManor

[mommaduck]

The reason I'm willing to believe the young man is telling the truth about what his teachers said is that I have seen and heard it happen in schools, personally, over and over and over again. And every one opts to "side with the teachers" unless the kid has parents that are willing to crawl up the school admins rear end or threaten a lawsuit. Unfortunately, many of these same teachers target the kids they know don't have those parents.

 

If we are going to side based on "enough information" then don't take a side at all.

 

Yes, I'm for personal responsibility on the kid's part. At the same time, there is definitely suspicion that there is more going on here to trigger this kid's response.

Edited June 23, 2010 by mommaduck

[Heather in Neverland]

Hey Faith...you go girl! After having taught high school for 11 years and working in admin for 5 (currently IN a private school) I can say this stuff happens literally every year. EVERY SINGLE YEAR I taught there were some seniors who pulled some prank, did or said something stupid and were pulled from the graduation ceremony.

 

My favorite was the year they swapped out the tape of the morning announcements that goes over the TV in each classroom with PORN. Oh, and maybe the year they released about 200 mice in the building at the same time. etc. Those kids and many like them did not get to walk at graduation and this was in a PUBLIC school.

 

This year, at a private christian school, a senior cheated on one of his final exams and was EXPELLED. No graduation. Period. I told my students the same thing every year as the buzz about what the senior prank would be that year began...If you are gonna play the game then you better know the rules and you better be prepared to lose.

 

Even if the teacher did say something negative about the student, is lashing out at the teacher on FB using vulgar language really the way we want to teach our next generation to handle the situation? By condoning it that is essentially what we are doing.