Ps teacher just told me something really sad.

[pdalley]

I freely confess I'd of said something snarky to the 'parents don't care to work with the kid' comment. I'm human and with all we're going through with my oldest and his reading issues that would have caused me to say something exactly like that.

 

 

This house is full of books. I read to my kids when they were still in the womb. He was reading some when he went to K. I spent hours after school working with him. He has a reading disability. The school - who told me I couldn't possibly teach him at home - refused to see it. I spent more time at the school the years my sons were in ps than I did at home - more time than I spend teaching them now.

 

 

I spent two solid years telling the ps system here that my son had a reading disability on top of his autism and they called me a liar - it was due to his autism. So we saved money to have him privately tested and here we are - he should be going into 8th grade - still trying to remediate him. He's having a reading tutor consult next week. I used the materials recommended by the tester for a year before I reached this point. We've done everything possible to help this child read and I resent the heck out of anyone implying it's because 'we didn't care enough to work with him'. And that poor teacher would have probably gotten the same type of comment from me. The ps schools here are a train wreck.

 

I have two others with autism who read quite well - the youngest was reading at three with no prompting or pressure from me at all.

 

I feel sorry for the teachers stuck in schools today. I seldom had any problems with teachers - it was administration I could have cheerfully lived without.

 

But still, being human, I recognize I would probably have responded like the OP in that situation. It's not always a case of parents not caring.

[amy g.]

I was teaching Kindergarten 16 years ago when I was pregnant with my oldest. My principal said that we needed to start teaching practice tests the following year.

 

She was a former Kindergarten teacher. I said, "You KNOW how inappropriate this is."

 

She said that she didn't have a choice, so I said that it looked like a good time to retire.

 

Maybe there will be a market for private developly appropriate Kindergartens now.

 

Like in most things, I think that balance is better than either extreme. I was frustrated my teachers who ONLY had play centers and were adamantly opposed to teaching letter recognition or even using lined paper.

 

I chose to have big blocks of time devoted to free-choice centers broken up be 15 minutes of instruction at a time.

 

There are always kids that just are not ready, but they might be more ready the next year if they are at least EXPOSED to letters and numbers.

[simka2]

I was really proud of the way this mom responded. I choose to give the OP the benefit of the doubt and assume that in her original post certain inflections and facial expressions did not come across to us.

 

Yes, the teacher stated some "facts," but common sense tells me that the OP would not have responded the way she did without 100% certainty of the teachers personal bent.

 

I actually had to deal with similar situation, except that it was a private school teacher who wanted my just turned 4yr old to be reading!!!

[SproutMamaK]

Her observance that children who don't read at that age often come from disinterested parents seems accurate to me - not in all instances, but it would certainly make sense that a parent who's not at all proactive with their child's education would have a child that reads later than other.

 

Sorry to quote myself here - I'm not saying that all children who don't read by K have disinterested parents, or that a child SHOULD be reading by K. I'm just saying that, if you could easily split a K class up into two groups - those who have proactive parents and those who do not - the group of children with parents who haven't worked on reading with them would likely have more children who don't read, or don't read as well. It's not a blanket statement that's true in all instances. I certainly don't think that a parent (or child) should be labeled for having a child that doesn't read by K. I just think that overall, a child is more likely to be reading in kindergarten if their parents have tried to help them learn how. If the teacher in the OP meant that ALL children who don't read by K have parents who haven't bothered to teach them, that would certainly be offensive to almost anyone, I think.

[Orthodox6]

 

I said, very calmy, "I homeschool my dc to keep them away from people like you." Then I promptly turned, gathered up my dc, who by the way were sitting quietly at a table coloring while her dc were running around wildly, and left.

 

 

Even though I agree with you completely that this public school is wrong, I would not be able to utter something so unkind. Hardly a persuasive advertisement for homeschooling to any nearby auditor.

[Orthodox6]

That is what is strange about it all to me as well. I specifically remember a p.s. teacher telling me not to teach my oldest to read early because I wasn't a professional and I would mess it up.

 

When I was turning four years old (which would have been in 1959), my mother went to the public elementary school to ask what on earth she should do with me, who frantically wanted to read. They told her to teach me how to read ! This was in the school system of a major city (Houston).

[Nicole M]

:iagree: the PS in the next town over started ALL DAY K about 6 years ago -- so glad my children are home with me. Then, about 2 years ago they started an ALL DAY PRE-K!!!! :001_huh:

 

I'm just so sad for the children...

 

But I believe this has as much (or more) to do with parents' work schedules as it does with parents pressures for academic achievement.

 

The straw that broke the camel's back for me in my decision to homeschool was a meeting for all the parents of incoming 6th graders with the middleschool principal and teachers. We were herded into the gymnasium and listened to 7 minutes of vague discussion of academics, 35 minutes of talk about the behavior code (based on the systems used at reform schools, as I later learned) and then another 40 minutes of talk about sports and after-school programs. At the end of this, we had an opportunity to ask questions. One mom got up and said, "If you aren't offering X sport or any other afterschool activities, what am I supposed to do with my child after school?" I know not all parents are completely self-centered ignoramuses like this woman, but there is that pressure on schools, to provide activities and a place for kids whose parents either can't, because of work situations, or won't, care for them.

 

Schools are in a terrible pickle right now. I feel sorry for the teachers, honestly.

[kmacnchs]

She said in her experience most of those types of children are just lazy or have parents who don't care to work with them.

 

This statement was a little disturbing but other than that, she seems to be a victim just as much as the kids. I've been a ps teacher and you HAVE to do what you are told or you are fired. It sounds like she is upset about having to take away the pretend playstations but she feels as though she has no choice...

[Nicole M]

There is a woman in our church who teaches all day K. The children are kept busy every single moment of the day, they don't even have a "rest" time. I asked her if the kids get tired. She says some of them are nodding off in their seats by the end of the day.

 

I know at least one of my boys would have been in trouble all the time if he had to be in an environment like that.

 

Seriously? No rest time? It used to be that most states required rest time for children under the age of six. I wonder if that's changed. Of course, we don't give children outside play time or recess any more at our local elementary schools because of the push to raise test scores, so it wouldn't surprise me.

[Nicole M]

Even though I agree with you completely that this public school is wrong, I would not be able to utter something so unkind. Hardly a persuasive advertisement for homeschooling to any nearby auditor.

 

I agree. Perhaps something like "I homeschool because the institution you describe does not seem conducive to learning," might have gotten the point across without attacking this woman, who is clearly frustrated. Who wouldn't be, when set up for failure?

[Nicole M]

 

Maybe there will be a market for private developly appropriate Kindergartens now.

 

 

 

There already is, and I suspect that movement will grow, but I fear that it will only widen the gap between the wealthy and the poor in this country.

[Saille]

Or inability to speak English. Or pure tiredness after working 2 full time jobs. Or a myriad of other things. I hate that people assume laziness or indifference when it simply isn't true.

 

Yes! And so many teachers/administrators, who grew up middle class and never had to worry about these things, completely fail to imagine or consider them.

 

I was warned about a particular parent who was "horrible to deal with", "a screamer", etc.. And she did have her issues, including possible oxycontin addiction. But what earthly purpose did alienating her serve when we were supposed to be helping her kid? That year's IEP meeting was the "best IEP meeting" they ever had with her. They were amazed. You know what? I sat next to her. Every time an administrator asked a question, I would say, "Well, M. and I have been talking about that, and it seemed to us that..." I looked right at her. I asked her directly if I was expressing things correctly. That was IT. That was all anyone had to do. How many little moments of school staff members allowing themselves the privilege of being visibly taken aback, how many pregnant pauses did she have to suffer through in these panel-style meetings before she became humiliated, then oppositional? Argh. There were better supervisors there than the people I worked under, but I don't think my bosses were uncommon, either.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

Seriously? No rest time? It used to be that most states required rest time for children under the age of six. I wonder if that's changed. Of course, we don't give children outside play time or recess any more at our local elementary schools because of the push to raise test scores, so it wouldn't surprise me.

 

Nope. No rest time. I specifically asked about that.

[Jami]

I think this is why half-day Kindergarten (if any Kindergarten) is so much better as well. It's *hard* to keep 5-6 year olds busy with seatwork all day. The teacher and students would be so much more energetic and fresh for learning if it were a 2-3 hour time period. But school = free daycare, so we must have all-day options as soon as possible. :P

 

 

 

 

 

I think the public schools are swinging back a bit from "play based" pre-k and kindergarten. Teachers will complain about that, as it causes them to have to teach.

 

When I went to kindergarten many long years ago, there were no play stations. We did phonics and math and writing. We played blocks and trains and such at home. Parents actually bought imaginative toys for their own dc or let them run around and make up their own games (instead of TV.)

 

Then there was a push to move to "play based" learning, with stations of toys and no academics. This was in full swing when my dd hit preschool. Then we saw the sad results of that. Now schools are moving back to a more academic kindergarten.

 

See, THAT is why I homeschool: so that I can follow a long-term, well thought out plan, rather than the latest eduational fad. I don't blame the teachers much for that; they are products of the insane teacher colleges they have to constantly take classes through.

[Orthodox6]

Sounds like one of the many "education seesaws". (kindergarten -- reading/writing instruction -- spelling/creative "spelling" -- old math/new math/fuzzy math/is-it-even-math-anymore-math/etc.)

 

I entered half-day kindergarten in the fall of 1960. Half-day program. Nothing but sitting at long tables doing nobody-can-remember-what, alternated with playing. Lots of playing. Frankly, I had more "toys" at school than I did at home, where money was extremely tight.

 

 

I think the public schools are swinging back a bit from "play based" pre-k and kindergarten. Teachers will complain about that, as it causes them to have to teach.

 

When I went to kindergarten many long years ago, there were no play stations. We did phonics and math and writing. We played blocks and trains and such at home. Parents actually bought imaginative toys for their own dc or let them run around and make up their own games (instead of TV.)

 

Then there was a push to move to "play based" learning, with stations of toys and no academics. This was in full swing when my dd hit preschool. Then we saw the sad results of that. Now schools are moving back to a more academic kindergarten.

 

See, THAT is why I homeschool: so that I can follow a long-term, well thought out plan, rather than the latest eduational fad. I don't blame the teachers much for that; they are products of the insane teacher colleges they have to constantly take classes through.

[LibraryLover]

There already is, and I suspect that movement will grow, but I fear that it will only widen the gap between the wealthy and the poor in this country.

 

 

That is exactly what is happening. If one were to visit any of the 'fancy' secular private schools inthe Boston/Providence area, you would see kindergarten classrooms where children are allowed to play and move.

 

When I think of the poor city kid, on concrete for a few minutes, and forced to sit at a desk for hours, learning to hate writing and reading...I feel that liberal guilt. And then I think 'Well, what the heck are you doing for those kids as a hser?" I can't hide from myself...:confused: :(

Edited May 21, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Perry]

And then I think 'Well, what the heck are you doing for those kids as a hser?" I can't hide from myself...:confused: :(

You are making a statement. It's not your fault they aren't listening.

[Mejane]

This is the problem with public ed today. Teachers, even brilliant, creative ones, are nothing more than flunkies to the admininstration. That's why so many check out, if not physically, then mentally and emotionally.

 

I spent three hours a day in K. We had play time, snack time, nap time, playground time, and read aloud time. There wasn't much time for academics, yet I think we turned out better than okay. The level of expectation placed on a 5yo today is sickening, imo. It may actually be abusive.

Edited May 21, 2010 by Mejane

[happyhomemaker25]

Now, I am just sad. Pregnant people should not read about little five year olds being told school is not supposed to be fun! Nope, it will just leave us depressed for the rest of the day.

I am so excited that my kids are at home. My four yo brings me his Phonics book and asks if we can do "Bonics" today. Then we spend five minutes on OPGTR. He wants math we spend a few minutes playing with manipulatives. We read all day long. He can't hold a pencil or count past 20 without repeating numbers. But he loves "school". I would hate to rip him out of this enviroment and put him in a school where he would be considered remedial.

[TXMary2]

The expectations today are ridiculous. Kindergarten used to be the place where children learned to read and count to 100 - they didn't need to know before they got there! Pre-school was colors, shapes and counting to 10. I am so glad I homeschool.

[Lara in Colo]

I think what is really sad about the whole system is that they push the littles in the beginning and let the older children to die on the vine later.

 

 

Lara

[Harriet Vane]

Yes! And so many teachers/administrators, who grew up middle class and never had to worry about these things, completely fail to imagine or consider them.

 

I was warned about a particular parent who was "horrible to deal with", "a screamer", etc.. And she did have her issues, including possible oxycontin addiction. But what earthly purpose did alienating her serve when we were supposed to be helping her kid? That year's IEP meeting was the "best IEP meeting" they ever had with her. They were amazed. You know what? I sat next to her. Every time an administrator asked a question, I would say, "Well, M. and I have been talking about that, and it seemed to us that..." I looked right at her. I asked her directly if I was expressing things correctly. That was IT. That was all anyone had to do. How many little moments of school staff members allowing themselves the privilege of being visibly taken aback, how many pregnant pauses did she have to suffer through in these panel-style meetings before she became humiliated, then oppositional? Argh. There were better supervisors there than the people I worked under, but I don't think my bosses were uncommon, either.

 

Bless you for your kindness.

 

I have seen this dynamic play out as well, with many people over many years. Right now there is a difficult person in my life--I am convinced he either has ADHD or some other hidden diagnosis. He is very, very difficult to deal with BUT he is a really good-hearted person who is putting ALL his energy into being a good father. I have seen this difficult person marginalized and condescended to time after time.

 

So thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for your compassion and kindness. Treating people as though they are human beings brings remarkable results with even the most difficult people.

[Nicole M]

Bless you for your kindness.

 

I have seen this dynamic play out as well, with many people over many years. Right now there is a difficult person in my life--I am convinced he either has ADHD or some other hidden diagnosis. He is very, very difficult to deal with BUT he is a really good-hearted person who is putting ALL his energy into being a good father. I have seen this difficult person marginalized and condescended to time after time.

 

So thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for your compassion and kindness. Treating people as though they are human beings brings remarkable results with even the most difficult people.

 

Exactly my thoughts.

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 thoughts:

 

1. the ps system which totally ignores individual needs - including developmental ones makes me shudder.

 

2. If this teacher was not anti-homeschooler before this comment, then she is now.

[edithcrawley]

The testing culture has become ridiculous in schools. I remember when I was in preschool (early 90s), it was half day some days and full days other days if your parents wanted you to stay. During the morning session, we did some letters, numbers, colors, shapes, and were read to and played a lot. Right before lunchtime some of the kids went home and the rest of us ate lunch, had rest time, more playing, and then did additional learning stuff like really basic science experiments (floating/sinking) and additional crafts. I was starting to learn how to read before preschool, and a few times a week, a few of the moms would come in and separate us into reading groups. Those that could read would take turns reading aloud, those that couldn't were trying as best they could with help, but there wasn't any pressure to have us reading by the end of the year. (This was a private preschool)

 

Kindergarten was only half day in my district (public), but was essentially the same, we learned more numbers, more letters had playtime etc. We did more academics in kindergarten, but they were structured in such a way that it felt more like play, we didn't have that many worksheets during the yearThey kept working with us on the reading, and started working with us on writing. I remember every week we'd go through a different letter of the alphabet, the teacher had these inflatable letter people things that were shaped like the letter and had faces and arms and legs. All the consonants were male, and all the vowels were female. One week we had a wedding for Mr Q and Mrs U so we'd remember that they always had to go together.

 

I don't think that all play based or all academic based preschool/kindergarten is a good idea. Kids that age need to be able to run around and have fun, but they can still learn while doing so.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

2 thoughts:

 

1. the ps system which totally ignores individual needs - including developmental ones makes me shudder.

 

2. If this teacher was not anti-homeschooler before this comment, then she is now.

 

:iagree:

[Lolly]

Wonder if they are paving the way for mandatory pre-K. That way everyone will be on more equal ground entering K. It will be an opportunity to learn the school and how to sit and how to know the basics needed before reading. It will be....K only a year earlier.

[mommaduck]

She went on to complain about all of the 5 year olds coming into K not knowing how to count to 100, not able to hold a pencil correctly and not knowing atleast beginning CVC words. She said that she didn't understand what parents expect them (teachers) to do with a child that has never gone to preschool and that has never had a parent interested enough to teach them the things they need to know to start K.

 

 

I thought THAT was what Kindy was for?!?! Good grief!

[5LittleMonkeys]

I read through the entire post this morning and made note of the people who criticize me for being rude to this person. I would just like to say that yes, in a perfect world and if I were a perfect person I would not have said what I did. However, the mantle of kindness and virtue that precariously sits upon my shoulders occasionally does indeed fall off and I say what I feel instead of making up some contrived comment in order to remove myself from a conversation that makes me angry and frustrated. I commend all of you who have never let your emotions surface regarding a topic you feel strongly about. I strive to be like you however I often fall short.

 

That being said, last night I called a friend of mine who volunteers in the K classes at the school this teacher teaches at to ask if she could confirm any of what the woman had told me. She did. She said that some of the teachers were already removing the toys from their rooms and she said that she has heard many conversations regarding the push to have the children reading earlier. She asked how I knew and when I told her who I had spoken with she said, "Oh, her." I asked what she meant and she said that in her opinion this person should not be teaching. She said many parents have complained about her and that there are a lot of teachers that don't like her methods.

 

Perhaps those who criticized my words missed this on page 3.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by LibrarianMom

Reading this, I see a K teacher who is trying to do her best with the system which she is forced to adhere. She doesn't come across as being pleased the play stations are being taken away or excited that K'ers have to begin reading so quickly. Do you think that maybe it isn't her preference that children be put into a remedial class right away? Or that perhaps this is a small percentage of the total number of students? It seems like she just doesn't have a choice in the matter. Quite frankly, her comment about parents who don't care to work with their children sounds quite a bit like the complaints about PS parents that are posted frequently on this board.

 

I understand exactly what you are saying and have had conversations with other ps teachers who do complain about their hands being tied, and not liking the way they are required to teach. I have had really great conversations about our different ideas on education in general with other ps teachers.

 

This particular person did seem to be irritated about the toys being taken out. (she commented that it was going to make it more difficult for her to not have the toys to distract the children at certain parts of the day) Her attitude, regarding the K children lacking the necessary skills, was definitely one of irritation at the children and the parents, not the system. She said she felt many of these children were just lazy and when talking about the parents not preparing them, she definitely had no hint of compassion in her voice.

 

I do not think this person is representative of all ps teachers (thank goodness) but there are enough of these types of teachers, and my dc have had the misfortune to have come across atleast two of them, that make me stand by my statement that one of the reasons I homeschool is to keep my dc away from teachers like her.

 

You didn't witness this persons body language nor her tone of voice. Contrary to what you may you may think, there are bad teachers out there. Should I have been kind to her? Yes, however I am only human.

 

Now, if you really want to get riled up about something get riled up about government wanting to implement longer school days and extending the amount of days per year that are required. If this is implemented for the ps schools won't it affect homeschoolers as well?

[kmacnchs]

Now, if you really want to get riled up about something get riled up about government wanting to implement longer school days and extending the amount of days per year that are required. If this is implemented for the ps schools won't it affect homeschoolers as well?

 

I don't get riled up about the gov't very easily b/c (right or wrong) I feel as though there is nothing I can do about it... :001_huh: isn't that sad?

 

at least I can hs...thank the Lord for that!

[jewellsmommy]

You didn't witness this persons body language nor her tone of voice. Contrary to what you may you may think, there are bad teachers out there. Should I have been kind to her? Yes, however I am only human.

 

 

You're right, some things just don't come through in writing. Body language can convey more information then our words. And we all have our snarky days. :D I have jumped on people for less, unfortunately.:blush:

[spradlin02]

I think this is why half-day Kindergarten (if any Kindergarten) is so much better as well. It's *hard* to keep 5-6 year olds busy with seatwork all day. The teacher and students would be so much more energetic and fresh for learning if it were a 2-3 hour time period. But school = free daycare, so we must have all-day options as soon as possible. :P

 

My kids are in Montessori Pre-K (daughter) and Kindergarten (son). They work all day long. Some of it is hard, some of it is easier. Some of it they sit, but if they sit, it's never for long; they have the freedom to roam and work where they wish. The most important thing I've gotten out of the program is that much of their work is self-directed. For the most part, they decide what they want to work on and when. If they focus on one thing for too long, the directress focuses them elsewhere.

 

My point is this, young children have an amazing ability to work hard and for a long time. It's just in how we approach it. I have no problem moving my children into academic work, if they're ready for it. If they're not, we go elsewhere. But I always keep in mind I want them to enjoy the experience of learning.

[freeindeed]

Under the circumstances, I probably would have let loose and said something along the lines of the OP's response to that "teacher", too. I've had to defend our decision to homeschool quite a few times recently, plus I've got PMS right now, not to mention that it's not even summer yet and temps where I live are already in the 90's, my vacuum cleaner is broken again, my oldest dc will leave for basic training in less than 2 months....so, I say, cut her some slack. Sometimes we all speak our minds a little harshly, don't we?;)

[Mejane]

My point is this, young children have an amazing ability to work hard and for a long time. It's just in how we approach it. I have no problem moving my children into academic work, if they're ready for it. If they're not, we go elsewhere. But I always keep in mind I want them to enjoy the experience of learning.

 

Exactly. The problem for many of these kids is that they're not ready for it, then they get labelled and they're screwed. K used to be about school readiness; now that's pre-K. Soon we'll be schooling them in utero. Oh, wait... some people already do. :glare:

[sbgrace]

I had a similar conversation the summer before my boys were to enter full day K. The teacher was going on and on about kids unprepared to write, read, etc. when they entered K. She also spent a long time (disdainfully) talking about boys particularly who couldn't sit still and follow rules. They have a special class that starts two weeks early for those kids "who can't sit still and do K level work" she explained.

 

I pointed out my upcoming K boy enthusiastically pretending to be a train and she told me not to worry because she's good at "getting those types in line fast" and I decided then and there I wasn't even going to consider K. I've since met via homeschooling little boys pulled from that school after a disaster of a start in K. Yuck and sad.

 

As a former high school teacher I've seen those boys when they hit high school. They are the ones who actually had/have the ability but they either don't believe it because they decided they were "bad at school" in early elementary and/or by the time they matured they were hopelessly behind.

Edited May 21, 2010 by sbgrace

[Jean in Newcastle]

Under the circumstances, I probably would have let loose and said something along the lines of the OP's response to that "teacher", too. I've had to defend our decision to homeschool quite a few times recently, plus I've got PMS right now, not to mention that it's not even summer yet and temps where I live are already in the 90's, my vacuum cleaner is broken again, my oldest dc will leave for basic training in less than 2 months....so, I say, cut her some slack. Sometimes we all speak our minds a little harshly, don't we?;)

 

Yes I do. But then I find the person and I apologize with no excuses. "I was out of line" is all that is needed.

[2plus5makes7forme]

Why do we have to put all the dc in the same box? What happened to people being individuals.

 

I have 3 dc that are school age and only 1 of them dd7 whose birthday is in Jan was ready for K when she was 5. My other dd9 now was so far behind in PS standards she would have been put in remedial. That would have killed her love of learning not to mention her sense of self worth!

 

Ds who is 5 1/2 and missed cut off for K by 10 days is definately not ready. If I sent him to PS I am sure they would have put him on meds for being so hyper, but at home I can work with in 5 min intervals then send him to play.

 

So thankful that I can homeschool my dc. And that don't have to deal with the stress of having to fit into someone else's standards.;)

[Renee in NC]

I think what is really sad about the whole system is that they push the littles in the beginning and let the older children to die on the vine later.

 

 

Lara

 

Isn't *that* the truth!

[Jenny in GA]

I haven't had a chance to read all of the responses' date=' but I think you're angry at the wrong person. She said she was unhappy with getting rid of the creative stations. Her use of the word 'force' implies to me that she doesn't agree with that either. But she doesn't have any control over what she's told to do.

 

When she talks about parents not caring- there are plenty of kids out there whose parents DON'T CARE. She might have said they didn't care enough to put them in pre-school, but she meant that they didn't care enough to expose them to life. There will be kids starting K without ever having done a craft project. Without ever having held scissors, seen glue, etc. No one has EVER read a book to them. No one has counted with them, taken them to the zoo or talked about what color shirt they are wearing. If a child has gone to pre-school at least they have been exposed to these things. I'm 99.9% sure that is what she meant. She's not talking about your kids or my kids or the kids who have done the things on that list.

[/quote']

 

:iagree:

 

Wasn't there for the conversation, of course, but I too was shocked at the OP's response to that teacher. I thought the same thing while reading the post -- that the teacher was venting her frustration about the situation.

 

A few years ago my two year old was having in-home speech therapy that was funded by the county. Once, the therapist said something like it was so nice to work with me, that there were so many parents she worked with that just didn't DO things with their children.

 

For example, when she would try to give the parents ideas for how to "practice" for the week, she would say to them, "Well, do you ever go for nature walks together? No ....? Well, how about the park?" The parents would just stare at her blankly and shake their heads. She said many of her families apparently almost never left the house.

 

That really surprised me. I think it's because nobody I know is anything like that, so I just assume, "Oh, no parent would really be like that!" But apparently they are out there.

 

Jenny

[TracyR]

You know it all honesty its amazing about how many people think its the teacher's job to do the teaching. In our area that is a theme that is constant.

Many years ago my friend's son was getting ready to start K(he's in 6th grade now) anyways she complained to me how she thought it was arrogant of the school to expect her to teach her son how to count, write his name, tie his shoes,, etc. That , that was the teacher's job that's why she was sending him to school. Of course she ended up having to hold him back a year because he was a young 5 to begin with, and the standards then were less demanding then they are now.

 

I think that is where the teacher's attitude about uncaring parents is coming from. Honestly its amazing how many parents feel this way. That's its not their job to teach their children. Plug that in with the new standards and how the vast majority of children enter Kindergarden not ever having been to preschool or having a parent who wants to take the time to teach their children what they need to know and I can see where the teacher's attitude is coming from.

 

It would be wonderful if every parent was caring and loving enough to teach their children the things they need to know before they enter a brick and mortar school. For the vast majority though those children who have those families are well, now homeschooling them. Then those on the other side of the fence are in brick and mortar school.

[lisabees]

I got the same feeling as you about this teacher. I don't think she said anything wrong--she was stating the facts, not giving her opinion from what I can tell. I have a good friend who teaches in PS and she says the same things. This teacher never said SHE forces them into remedial classes, just that the kids would be forced. That is likely school board policy, not HER policy. It's not her choice, she just has to do what they tell her to do. A teacher is not a parent and should NOT have to take on the role of mother all day long. She's probably required by the state (Her boss!) to have all the kids to a certain point at the end of the year if she wants to stay employed. So how can you hold it against her to be frustrated if she's supposed to teach them to read and her kids can't even recognize at least SOME of the letters or count to ten?

 

My friend teaches in a low income area. About half of her class can barely speak English at the beginning of the year. They are expected to come into school and learn. SHE has all the pressure of teaching many of them first to speak English, then to teach them to read and count and tie their shoes. She gets no support from the parents. She sends notes home to sign, they don't come back. She sets up teacher conferences, no one shows up. She asks for parent volunteers so they can go on field trips, no one will do it. Oh and she has a class of 27 five year olds every year! She's overwhelmed, she's frustrated and she's stressed. But she does the best she can with what she's given and sees her job as a calling to kids who just don't get what they need at home. And from what I gather, she's just like most other PS teachers who are given an impossible task and expected to get it done.

 

I didn't decide to home school to avoid teachers like the one you spoke with. I home school to avoid my kids making friends with kids who have parents who don't give a crap because uninvolved parents generally lead to trouble-making kids down the road. But I almost decided not to home school because I don't want to deal with "people like you" who are so judgmental of the teachers who are just doing the best they can in the public schools. It may not be right for my kids but at least there are willing people out there, working within the INSANE policies set forth and still do the best they can for the kids.

 

:iagree: I would have been angry if the OP talked to me like that. Why so judgemental? This is probably a teacher doing her best in a broken system. MOST of the teachers I know love what they do and are upset by the system these days. It's no longer about the children.

 

But, these teachers have a job and do what they can to impart wisdom in a loving environment, especially in those younger years.

 

I send my kids to ps and for the most part I am happy; one was homeschooled this year to catch up. Another may stay home next year to move ahead. Nah, it's not perfect and neither is homeschooling.

 

Don't put me in a box or the ps in a box. That's just not cool.

[Orthodox6]

Simple-minded I may be, but I do consider it a school's job to teach the students. My job is to support the school's curricular efforts via in-home reinforcement. Long ago and far away, the schools, also, believed this.

 

Now a parent is expected to teach the child academic basics before the child even enters school, to fork over large sums of money because the school system cannot manage its own budget . . . and is expected to shoulder the blame for everything [ ! ] that fails.

 

It is wrong to blame teachers at outside schools for everything that goes wrong. It is wrong to blame parents for everything that goes wrong. Today, the model for successful outside schools needs to be cooperation of everybody, with the educational welfare of each individual child the priority.

 

If I want to ensure a greater possibility of things "going right", I homeschool and do it myself, with the assistance of hand-selected resources and additional subject-specific teachers.

 

What on earth shall be the fate of my as-yet-unborn grandchildren ???

[happyhomemaker25]

Exactly. The problem for many of these kids is that they're not ready for it, then they get labelled and they're screwed. K used to be about school readiness; now that's pre-K. Soon we'll be schooling them in utero. Oh, wait... some people already do. :glare:

 

Hey! I'm schooling Miss Lily while she is in Utero! She is getting a solid Ambleside education from their reading lists everyday.She kicks and squirms through the whole thing. I think she has ADHD. :tongue_smilie:LOL

She should also know quiet a bit of Grammar thanks to FLL and R&S!

[happyhomemaker25]

You know it all honesty its amazing about how many people think its the teacher's job to do the teaching. In our area that is a theme that is constant.

Many years ago my friend's son was getting ready to start K(he's in 6th grade now) anyways she complained to me how she thought it was arrogant of the school to expect her to teach her son how to count, write his name, tie his shoes,, etc. That , that was the teacher's job that's why she was sending him to school. Of course she ended up having to hold him back a year because he was a young 5 to begin with, and the standards then were less demanding then they are now.

 

I think that is where the teacher's attitude about uncaring parents is coming from. Honestly its amazing how many parents feel this way. That's its not their job to teach their children. Plug that in with the new standards and how the vast majority of children enter Kindergarden not ever having been to preschool or having a parent who wants to take the time to teach their children what they need to know and I can see where the teacher's attitude is coming from.

 

It would be wonderful if every parent was caring and loving enough to teach their children the things they need to know before they enter a brick and mortar school. For the vast majority though those children who have those families are well, now homeschooling them. Then those on the other side of the fence are in brick and mortar school.

 

The problem I have with this statement is that the schools are putting that out there. Most PS administrators think that homeschooling is wrong because parents aren't competent enough to teach their own children. Then, they turn around and call parents lazy because their children show up at school not knowing how to read, write, or count. ??? I'm just a little confused.

[myfunnybunch]

You know it all honesty its amazing about how many people think its the teacher's job to do the teaching.

 

The job title is "teacher."

 

Not "facilitator" or "babysitter" or "reinforcer of academics already taught at home."

 

Teacher means "one that teaches." The idea that teachers are supposed to be given pre-taught children is unrealistic and silly. It sounds like the kind of argument being used to try to make preschool mandatory.

 

If we expect that children enter kindergarten already knowing kindergarten skills, we are doing a disservice to all of those little ones whose parents can't teach them (can't read themselves, working 2-3 jobs, don't know how or even that they need to teach their children) or won't teach them (checked out, don't care, think early childhood is for playing and being read to).

 

Cat

[Carol in Cal.]

Crazy.

 

We are defining MOST CHILDREN as failures at 5 years old! Stop the insanity!

[cathmom]

 

 

A few years ago my two year old was having in-home speech therapy that was funded by the county. Once, the therapist said something like it was so nice to work with me, that there were so many parents she worked with that just didn't DO things with their children.

 

 

Jenny

 

We've received in-home speech and OT from 4 different therapists and they say they all love coming here - that it's like coming into another world, that the dc are playing and doing, etc. It makes me wonder about the other people's houses.

[Tidbits of Learning]

Schools are changing and not for the better. My dd9 and my ds7 both had the same kindergarten teacher-3 years apart. The teacher was the same, but the environment and teaching was totally different.

They had changed reading programs to a program that expected reading fast. To accommodate this better reading program, they implemented another reading resource class with a horrid teacher (not the k-teacher) who taught my son, "You are a failure and will never read". That sentence was all that he said to me the first 3 months of deschooling after graduating kindergarten. So my son was doing this new reading program (Treasures-I believe it was called), Saxon phonics, and Sing, Spell, Read, and Write daily at public kindergarten.

They had to have fill in the bubble tests in k as well. They worked on 2-3 math sheets daily. It was all busy work. They hadn't taken the play kitchen out yet, but it was stuffed into a corner and gathering dust. Rest time had been eliminated to accommodate for the children to switch classes to reading resource, pe, and art. These are kindergarten children.

My son who was doing 1st grade work at a Montessori school for preschool was unable to complete all the seat work or sit still for this long with kindergarten at public school. The teacher often wouldn't let him play at recess b/c he still had work to do at that time.

I remember one day he brought like 6 finished sheets home in his folder and I thought, "Great, he is making progress"...until I saw the 7 unfinished sheets and the concerned letter from the staff. 13 worksheets for 1 day of kindergarten and they were all the same style sheets.

The last week of school I received letters from his reading resource teacher who was thoroughly fed up with my son and he needed to be tested...the art teacher who also expressed concern that my son wasn't performing in art up to a kindergarten standard and his kindergarten teacher who I love from my daughter's k year but who is definitely got her hands tied.

I totally understand where the OP was coming from with her comment. I have been the parent that has lived through what kindergarten has become. It is 1st grade. It is literally what 1st grade was just a few short years ago. If your child doesn't fit in their box, then you should medicate and take them to the child psychologist so that their test scores do not count against the school as a whole.

It is all about test scores b/c that is where the school gets their money and raises. I definitely see a huge problem for boys in this new school mentality. Teachers definitely take their frustrations out on parents and it is all very sad.

[Saille]

I taught kids with severe emotional disturbance. They were pretty cloistered. One of my fears was that they weren't developing any real sense of danger, b/c adult staff members had, by necessity, very controlled reactions to their behavior, and fights were guaranteed to be broken up instantly.

 

As such, I'm not at all sure it was a bad thing for this teacher to hear exactly what a parent thought of her complaining. She is living in the community where she works. She should have known better than to run on at the mouth, and the consequences could have been far worse if she'd been talking to a friend of her principal, or a member of the school board.

 

In addition, OK, maybe she was having a bad day...but maybe she's one of those teachers we dread, and the fact that people never tell her what they think of her attitude enables her to go on being a lousy teacher.

 

I get the whole "turn the other cheek" thing, but teachers are all too often put up on a pedestal, and this woman is influencing the community's children.

[Saille]

You know it all honesty its amazing about how many people think its the teacher's job to do the teaching.

 

That has *always* been the teacher's job. Previous generations have done it far better than this one. I am sick, sick, sick of teachers abdicating responsibility for this. I had little students, five and six and seven year old children whose parents' custodial rights had been *terminated*, the abuse was so bad. And you know what most of those kids had in common? They all thought they were stupid. To a child, they believed they were bad. Not at home. In school. In class. Their cries for help, which had taken the age-appropriate form of acting out, had not initially attracted their teachers' attention to the abuse. It had caused the teachers to villainize the children, because all those teachers could see was the obstacle those children presented on the way to the goal of the happy little classroom in their imaginations. These people had training in child development. They should have been able to look past their own wants and identify a problem before they did more damage to the children. Heaven help the ones who weren't brave enough to yell for help at the tops of their little lungs. Every day in this country, we label children based on the criterion: "Inappropriate behavior or emotions under otherwise normal circumstances", as if school itself is a bubble, and *always* represents normal circumstances. As if a child from a disrupted home can be expected to come to school and behave normally. As if we have the right to expect that, and as if it is *the children* who need behavioral remediation, when in fact they are doing the only thing that makes any sense.

 

Whatever child a teacher gets, teaching that child is the teacher's job. Not moaning and whining about the child they'd like to have. They're not supposed to throw them back, or throw up their hands. But they do. Routinely. And there is a culture within schools that supports these actions.

 

We can get as angry at egregiously irresponsible parents as we like, but in truth there aren't that many of them in any one class...just normal parents who don't think they should have to be a test prep coach for their four-year-olds. The egregiously bad parents...yeah, that's a tough row to hoe. But someone who's feeding the "poor me" party line to a total stranger at Girl Scouts is using those parents as an excuse to fail the children. And that makes me angry.