Ps teacher just told me something really sad.

[5LittleMonkeys]

While at a Girl Scout thingy this evening I happened to strike up a conversation with a K ps teacher.

 

I asked her if she enjoyed teaching K and she said that she did but that this next year was going to be really different because the school board has instructed them that all of the imaginative "stations" (play kitchen, cars, blocks, dollies, etc.) have to be removed and replaced with purely academic stations. (Number games, books, letter worksheets, etc.). I asked her why and she said they don't want the children to see school as somewhere to play. They need to arrive ready to learn and toys are just too much of a distraction. She said they also are implementing a new push to have K'ers reading 2 weeks into their first year. She went on to complain about all of the 5 year olds coming into K not knowing how to count to 100, not able to hold a pencil correctly and not knowing atleast beginning CVC words. She said that she didn't understand what parents expect them (teachers) to do with a child that has never gone to preschool and that has never had a parent interested enough to teach them the things they need to know to start K.

 

I asked her what they did with children who were developmentally not ready to do all of those things at 5 years old and she said most of them will have to be put into remedial classes so they can be "forced" (yes, she said "forced") to catch up. She said in her experience most of those types of children are just lazy or have parents who don't care to work with them.

 

I stood there with my mouth gaped open for a moment trying to control the wraith I was about to unleash on her when she asked me where my dc attend school. I said, very calmy, "I homeschool my dc to keep them away from people like you." Then I promptly turned, gathered up my dc, who by the way were sitting quietly at a table coloring while her dc were running around wildly, and left.

 

WOW, I am so glad God set me on this path.

[Parrothead]

Wow! I'm speechless.

[jewellsmommy]

And to think I was just reassuring a parent whose child starts K the yr after next that he would be fine and not to stress about what he doesn't know yet. She was lamenting about his lack of counting and alphabet skills. I told her not to pressure him too much and that it was ok to leave some of the teaching to the teacher IF the alternative was a stressed out child and mommy.:001_huh: I guess I messed that one up. The poor kid is going to be put in remedial classes! Kindergarten and remedial should never be in the same sentence.

Edited May 21, 2010 by jewellsmommy
over use of commas!

[m4given]

That is sad on all accounts. Sad for the pressure put on teachers, sad for pressure put on parents, and most of all it's a very sad day for the children. Must say that I've had to bite my tongue many times. I can get so riled up in a discussion like you had.

 

I'm all for children to advance at their pace/understanding - niether to be forced ahead nor to be blocked from advancing forward. Challenge the children? Yes, but not to force them into a nice, neat box.

 

I appreciated the teachers my dd experienced in public school, and yet I heard the pressure of what kids are expected to do younger & younger. Not a justification, and yet I wonder if this teacher feels great pressure & so puts blame on the parents?

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

Kindergarten and remedial should never be in the same sentence.

 

:iagree:

 

Do they never think what this is doing to the children? The long-term implications it will have? :crying:

[MariannNOVA]

I cannot count the number of parents over the years who approach me about tutoring their FOUR year olds to 'get them ready' for Kindergarten! And, these are four year olds who have been in pre-school

(academic pre-school) and the parents STILL want them tutored.

 

I'm just amazed - my oldest is 31 and my youngest are 9.5 (twins) -- ALL of them have had the fun of the pretend kitchen and toys in Kindergarten.

[simka2]

Wow...wow. All, I can say is: "I'm so glad ds is home!!!"

[m4given]

I cannot count the number of parents over the years who approach me about tutoring their FOUR year olds to 'get them ready' for Kindergarten! And, these are four year olds who have been in pre-school

(academic pre-school) and the parents STILL want them tutored.

 

I'm just amazed - my oldest is 31 and my youngest are 9.5 (twins) -- ALL of them have had the fun of the pretend kitchen and toys in Kindergarten.

 

I'm curious ~ How do you handle this request?

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I have had a major problem with kindergarten. Both my boys were expected to write in journals from day one of kindergarten. When I asked, "Wouldn't it be more efficient to teach them to write their letters and how to spell a few words before you force them to write two sentences a day?", they looked at me like I was crazy. Silly me! My kids hated to write or color, so I hadn't taught them how to write anything beside their own first names. The preschool they attended was play-based, so they didn't learn to write their letters there, either. So, last summer was spent teaching both kids how to form all their letters so that this year they could start off writing in their ridiculous journals again. Thank goodness we don't have to continue the nonsense any more!

[Nicole M]

I have had a major problem with kindergarten. Both my boys were expected to write in journals from day one of kindergarten. When I asked, "Wouldn't it be more efficient to teach them to write their letters and how to spell a few words before you force them to write two sentences a day?", they looked at me like I was crazy. Silly me! My kids hated to write or color, so I hadn't taught them how to write anything beside their own first names. The preschool they attended was play-based, so they didn't learn to write their letters there, either. So, last summer was spent teaching both kids how to form all their letters so that this year they could start off writing in their ridiculous journals again. Thank goodness we don't have to continue the nonsense any more!

 

You know, I didn't start homeschooling my oldest until after he'd finished 5th grade in public school. A few summers ago I was sorting out boxes and boxes of "products" that he'd accumulated in all his years of public school (it was all about having a product to bring home), and in one box, I found a "journal" that he'd had to keep in first grade. It was heartbreaking to me that I could. not. read. a. word. I can't even express how distressing this is, it's wrong on so many levels. His little thoughts and ideas, lost. What is the point of "writing" when what is written cannot be deciphered? It's just awful. And now the poor kindergarteners will have to do this, too? It's very sad.

[MariannNOVA]

I'm curious ~ How do you handle this request?

 

I respond by asking them WHY they think their child isn't ready for Kindergarten. In the particular school where I taught (I taught Jr. K which was 'older' four year olds who had missed the cut off for K), parents of 4 yr olds were always asking - we had four classrooms of four year olds - 15 in each class.

 

The parent would usually say that they wanted the child to be able to read BEFORE starting Kindergarten. I would suggest that they speak with the Kindergarten teacher (invariably the parent who asked was keeping the child in the private school) before pursuing any tutoring. After they spoke with the Kindergarten teacher, that would be the end of it.......except, there was one little boy who I did tutor for the summer before Kindergarten. There were learning issues and it was definitely to his benefit that we worked over the summer.

 

Our private school had full day Kindergarten - the kids who were going to public school were going into half-day kindergarten. The parents of the chidlren going to public school seldom asked about tutoring -

[5LittleMonkeys]

And to think I was just reassuring a parent whose child starts K the yr after next that he would be fine and not to stress about what he doesn't know yet. She was lamenting about his lack of counting and alphabet skills. I told her not to pressure him too much and that it was ok to leave some of the teaching to the teacher IF the alternative was a stressed out child and mommy.:001_huh: I guess I messed that one up. The poor kid is going to be put in remedial classes! Kindergarten and remedial should never be in the same sentence.

 

I wouldn't go scaring this mommy about her son's lack of skills.

 

I didn't stick around long enough to ask her if this was just this particular school district or if it was county wide or state wide, etc. I know of other schools in other parts of the country (from relatives) that have incredible Kindergarten classes. I'm am really hoping this isn't something nation wide. I can't bare to think of all those sweet little kiddos not getting to play all day long or being badgered because there little fingers just won't hold that pencil no matter how hard they try.:crying:

[LibrarianMom]

While at a Girl Scout thingy this evening I happened to strike up a conversation with a K ps teacher.

 

I asked her if she enjoyed teaching K and she said that she did but that this next year was going to be really different because the school board has instructed them that all of the imaginative "stations" (play kitchen, cars, blocks, dollies, etc.) have to be removed and replaced with purely academic stations. (Number games, books, letter worksheets, etc.). I asked her why and she said they don't want the children to see school as somewhere to play. They need to arrive ready to learn and toys are just too much of a distraction. She said they also are implementing a new push to have K'ers reading 2 weeks into their first year. She went on to complain about all of the 5 year olds coming into K not knowing how to count to 100, not able to hold a pencil correctly and not knowing atleast beginning CVC words. She said that she didn't understand what parents expect them (teachers) to do with a child that has never gone to preschool and that has never had a parent interested enough to teach them the things they need to know to start K.

 

I asked her what they did with children who were developmentally not ready to do all of those things at 5 years old and she said most of them will have to be put into remedial classes so they can be "forced" (yes, she said "forced") to catch up. She said in her experience most of those types of children are just lazy or have parents who don't care to work with them.

 

I stood there with my mouth gaped open for a moment trying to control the wraith I was about to unleash on her when she asked me where my dc attend school. I said, very calmy, "I homeschool my dc to keep them away from people like you." Then I promptly turned, gathered up my dc, who by the way were sitting quietly at a table coloring while her dc were running around wildly, and left.

 

WOW, I am so glad God set me on this path.

 

Reading this, I see a K teacher who is trying to do her best with the system which she is forced to adhere. She doesn't come across as being pleased the play stations are being taken away or excited that K'ers have to begin reading so quickly. Do you think that maybe it isn't her preference that children be put into a remedial class right away? Or that perhaps this is a small percentage of the total number of students? It seems like she just doesn't have a choice in the matter. Quite frankly, her comment about parents who don't care to work with their children sounds quite a bit like the complaints about PS parents that are posted frequently on this board.

[mom2a&z]

I stood there with my mouth gaped open for a moment trying to control the wraith I was about to unleash on her when she asked me where my dc attend school. I said, very calmy, "I homeschool my dc to keep them away from people like you." Then I promptly turned, gathered up my dc, who by the way were sitting quietly at a table coloring while her dc were running around wildly, and left.

 

I am so impresssed by the fact that you had the presence of mind to formulate a great reply and the guts to actually say it.

[SproutMamaK]

Reading this, I see a K teacher who is trying to do her best with the system which she is forced to adhere. She doesn't come across as being pleased the play stations are being taken away or excited that K'ers have to begin reading so quickly. Do you think that maybe it isn't her preference that children be put into a remedial class right away? Or that perhaps this is a small percentage of the total number of students? It seems like she just doesn't have a choice in the matter. Quite frankly, her comment about parents who don't care to work with their children sounds quite a bit like the complaints about PS parents that are posted frequently on this board.

 

:iagree: I'm guessing there's something that wasn't conveyed via typing, but based on her words alone, she seemed to be saying that she enjoys her job the way it is, and ISN'T looking forward to changing things up next year. Her observance that children who don't read at that age often come from disinterested parents seems accurate to me - not in all instances, but it would certainly make sense that a parent who's not at all proactive with their child's education would have a child that reads later than other. But again, I'm guessing we're missing something you saw in her body language or tone of voice.

[Hillary in KS]

But again, I'm guessing we're missing something you saw in her body language or tone of voice.

 

I surely hope so. Otherwise, that was an incredibly rude and hurtful thing said by the OP. :001_huh:

[jewellsmommy]

I wouldn't go scaring this mommy about her son's lack of skills.

 

I didn't stick around long enough to ask her if this was just this particular school district or if it was county wide or state wide, etc. I know of other schools in other parts of the country (from relatives) that have incredible Kindergarten classes. I'm am really hoping this isn't something nation wide. I can't bare to think of all those sweet little kiddos not getting to play all day long or being badgered because there little fingers just won't hold that pencil no matter how hard they try.:crying:

 

 

Most certainly not! Besides, he still has plenty of time. She is the easily stressed type, which is why I was telling her to not worry in the first place or that little boy would be a neurotic mess before then. I just hope someone else doesn't rev her up! We homeschooled from the beginning so I never went through the pre-k panic that I have seen so many go through. I feel badly for these parents and their children.

[Laurie4b]

I know. I see this with the kids in the neighborhood where I tutor. The kindergarten kids come home loaded with books to read, math worksheets to do,etc. And they wonder why we have an obesity epidemic... school all day..sit on your butt for an hour in the afternoon...winter? oops. too dark to play.

 

When I was in kindergarten, it was half day AND we took a nap, LOL, for part of it. (I had long before stopped napping!) We colored. I remember drawing a picture of a bird. I don't know if we learned ABC's or numbers. I learned to read in first grade with Dick and Jane books and my dad teaching me Dr. Suess books.

 

I think it is all very sad. I don't like it at the high school level, where kids who want to go to selective colleges are forced into AP courses. It pushes all the way down to kindergarten where a little kid can arrive somehow "unprepared." What a croc.

[Daisy]

I'm not surprised though. My husband was just fighting today to save a first grader from being labeled as special ed. The child can BLEND. How in the world do you consider a first grader in need of special education if he can blend? The school cannot put him into special education unless he is 2yrs behind. So explain to me how a first grader can be 2yrs behind? Impossible. My husband was so frustrated today.

 

Believe me, teachers are just as frustrated by the unrealistic demands put on children.

[Momof1plustwins]

Oh my! It is so sad how they expect these babies to give up their childhood. I'm so glad God allows us to homeschool.

[happi duck]

As a former K teacher this makes me so, so sad. This is wrong in so many ways.

 

By the way, kids this age vary greatly in ability and readiness. For the many kids I knew, time was the biggest factor NOT the amount of preschool OR parental involvement. For example: kids with no preschool and preschool grads coming in to K at the same skill level or kids with involved parents who still struggle with letter names and kids with uninvolved parents who come to K able to read etc.

[Joker]

I don't believe the teacher is really to blame. My sister teaches K and she complains all the time about how much they expect of five year olds. There is nothing she can do unless she wants to change occupations. She's been teaching for 15 years. It's not easy out there for the students or the teachers right now.

[Guest]

I used to homeschool under the jurisdiction of the public school system. The year they required kindergartners to write to fulfill a PE requirement was the year I went independent (even though my daughter was past kindergarten age). It was just so symbolic of how the whole system was pressurizing learning down to earlier and earlier levels. Kids were even supposed to write to fulfill their PE requirement! They couldn't draw pictures of what they'd done, or circle pictures on a page showing what types of play or active games they had enjoyed; nope, they had to write sentences. I also thought that the only way you could ever possibly need PE for five-year-olds was if you shut them up in classrooms and expected them to sit at desks for hours, so then you had to require them to move around.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Reading this, I see a K teacher who is trying to do her best with the system which she is forced to adhere. She doesn't come across as being pleased the play stations are being taken away or excited that K'ers have to begin reading so quickly. Do you think that maybe it isn't her preference that children be put into a remedial class right away? Or that perhaps this is a small percentage of the total number of students? It seems like she just doesn't have a choice in the matter. Quite frankly, her comment about parents who don't care to work with their children sounds quite a bit like the complaints about PS parents that are posted frequently on this board.

 

I understand exactly what you are saying and have had conversations with other ps teachers who do complain about their hands being tied, and not liking the way they are required to teach. I have had really great conversations about our different ideas on education in general with other ps teachers.

 

This particular person did seem to be irritated about the toys being taken out. (she commented that it was going to make it more difficult for her to not have the toys to distract the children at certain parts of the day) Her attitude, regarding the K children lacking the necessary skills, was definitely one of irritation at the children and the parents, not the system. She said she felt many of these children were just lazy and when talking about the parents not preparing them, she definitely had no hint of compassion in her voice.

 

I do not think this person is representative of all ps teachers (thank goodness) but there are enough of these types of teachers, and my dc have had the misfortune to have come across atleast two of them, that make me stand by my statement that one of the reasons I homeschool is to keep my dc away from teachers like her.

[jewellsmommy]

:iagree: I'm guessing there's something that wasn't conveyed via typing, but based on her words alone, she seemed to be saying that she enjoys her job the way it is, and ISN'T looking forward to changing things up next year. Her observance that children who don't read at that age often come from disinterested parents seems accurate to me - not in all instances, but it would certainly make sense that a parent who's not at all proactive with their child's education would have a child that reads later than other. But again, I'm guessing we're missing something you saw in her body language or tone of voice.

 

 

Not always and I see that you note that. I would just hate to see a teacher that makes a connection between ability and how much a parent cares. Some children just aren't as ready as others or are more stubborn.:D My friend has a boy (5 yr old) like this and was asked today by their dr. if he was starting to read. He starts ps k in the fall. She said the dr. gave her a disapproving look when she responded that he could if he was not so stubborn. That is untill he refused to stick his tongue out for her and move it around. The dr. finally conceded that perhaps the mom had a point! Her daughter, on the other hand, has the most remarkable memory and reads way better then my dd.

 

My dd was SO one of those difficult children. Part of it was a hearing issue but the rest was a very strong will! Because we homeschooled from the beginning I had the luxury of working her through all the issues. I would be very offended if anyone assumed that I was an uncaring or uninvolved parent based on my dd's reading or lack of it.

[jujsky]

Reading this, I see a K teacher who is trying to do her best with the system which she is forced to adhere. She doesn't come across as being pleased the play stations are being taken away or excited that K'ers have to begin reading so quickly. Do you think that maybe it isn't her preference that children be put into a remedial class right away? Or that perhaps this is a small percentage of the total number of students? It seems like she just doesn't have a choice in the matter. Quite frankly, her comment about parents who don't care to work with their children sounds quite a bit like the complaints about PS parents that are posted frequently on this board.

 

:iagree: I read the OP's post the same way.

[Pink Fairy]

Her observance that children who don't read at that age often come from disinterested parents seems accurate to me - not in all instances, but it would certainly make sense that a parent who's not at all proactive with their child's education would have a child that reads later than other.

 

I disagree with you. A child who is not ready to read can't be made to by either a dedicated parent or a determined kindergarten teacher. All it does is frustrate everyone, rather like trying to force a blind man to see. I've taught four children to read. Two were ready at age 4, one at age 5, and one at age 6. All were perfectly normal. My 6yo simply wasn't ready at ages 4 and 5, and nothing I did or said could have made him ready.

 

I feel very sorry for the teachers who are trying to do the impossible, but a lot sorrier for the poor children.

[HeidiKC]

I just finished reading a book on this very topic: The Trouble With Boys: A Surprising Report Card On Our Sons, Their Problems at School, and What Parents and Educators Must Do by Peg Tyre.

 

It just broke my heart. The first part is all about the problems we're creating with the demand (by parents) for early accelerated curriculum and the fact that most kids are NOT ready for formal schoolwork (reading, writing in particular) at age 5. And all of the problems that this has created in our schools, particularly for boys. The push for "academic" preschools is scary, and the studies have shown that although boys attending these preschools might be a bit ahead starting kindergarten, they fall behind within a year or two and have all sorts of problems - academic, behavior, learning disabilities, etc. It is pretty shocking.

 

I gave copies of this book to all three of the kindergarten teachers at our school and they were very receptive. One of them has been teaching for 30 years and she said something like, "this is what I keep trying to tell everyone". I think the problem is often not the teachers, but the parents who push for early reading and writing. I am telling everyone I know with preschool-aged kids about this book. I can't imagine anyone reading the facts laid out in this book (and the heartbreaking stories/examples) and still thinking that an academic preschool (or even kindergarten) is even a good idea.

[WiseOwlKnits]

I surely hope so. Otherwise, that was an incredibly rude and hurtful thing said by the OP. :001_huh:

 

Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking. I know when I was a PS teacher, I had to do a lot of things I didn't agree with. And to have someone tell me that they hs'ed to keep their kids away from me, when I was doing the best I could under the circumstances would have really upset me....

[IsabelC]

So kids used to learn the 3Rs at school, with kinder being a place to socialize and get used to the school setup and being away from parents. Then they started teaching academics in kinder. And now the kids have to learn reading in preschool so they can get into kinder. What next? Reading tests to get into child care when they're babies? :confused:

[Guest ToGMom]

As a former K teacher this makes me so, so sad. This is wrong in so many ways.

 

By the way, kids this age vary greatly in ability and readiness. For the many kids I knew, time was the biggest factor NOT the amount of preschool OR parental involvement. For example: kids with no preschool and preschool grads coming in to K at the same skill level or kids with involved parents who still struggle with letter names and kids with uninvolved parents who come to K able to read etc.

 

:iagree: the PS in the next town over started ALL DAY K about 6 years ago -- so glad my children are home with me. Then, about 2 years ago they started an ALL DAY PRE-K!!!! :001_huh:

 

I'm just so sad for the children...

[Carrie12345]

.

 

I asked her what they did with children who were developmentally not ready to do all of those things at 5 years old and she said most of them will have to be put into remedial classes so they can be "forced" (yes, she said "forced") to catch up. She said in her experience most of those types of children are just lazy or have parents who don't care to work with them.

 

 

 

THIS is the part that bothers me.

My kids are all pretty smart. As I said in another thread, our homeschool is academically rigorous. None of my kids are "lazy", and they have parents (and siblings!) who ENJOY working with them every single day, school time or not. But my younger daughter was not ready to read at beginning-k age, and would have been shoved into those remedial classes and brought to tears by "forced" "learning".

 

Now, wrapping up her 1st grade year, she can read and comprehend well beyond grade level. There's nothing "remedial" about her brain, and I shudder to think what she'd be doing now if I had left her in the hands of people who are trained to believe otherwise.

[Murmer]

This is why I am quitting teaching ps in 4 weeks. I hate the politics that decide what I teach and when as opposed to my professional judgement on what would be best for the group of students I teach. Tuis is why my children will not go to school because if they don't fit in the pretty box then they will get labeled adhd or lazy when with the right instruction they would do just fine, oh and not being forced to sit quietly in a seat for an hour at a time.

[....]

My son was in "Remedial Kindergarten". Yeah. He was removed from his class during certain times of the schoolday and taken to a special ed teacher.

 

That entire school year was a waste for him. He never did learn how to read. Now that I look back on it, I don't think he was developmentally ready for kindergarten (well, public school's version of kindergarten). He even laid down and fell asleep one day at school. They carried him to the nurse's office and I had to drive over to the school and take him home.

 

I did talk to the special ed teacher about this whole thing. She agreed that most of the kids in her class were boys with spring/summer birthdays. She said there's a huge difference developmentally between early 5 yro boys and late 5/6 yro boys. They're being pushed too hard, too early. The result is...two years down the road, they hate school.

 

My friend read this Boys Adrift book and that book addressed the whole issue of boys being pushed too hard in early grade school years.

 

My issue is...they push the kids soooo hard in Kindergarten and then 3rd/4th/5th grade, the academics just fall off a cliff. By the time the kids start high school, we're like No 27 in the world in academics. I think they've got this *&%^-backwards. :D

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

There is a woman in our church who teaches all day K. The children are kept busy every single moment of the day, they don't even have a "rest" time. I asked her if the kids get tired. She says some of them are nodding off in their seats by the end of the day.

 

I know at least one of my boys would have been in trouble all the time if he had to be in an environment like that.

[TandLMommy28]

Reading this, I see a K teacher who is trying to do her best with the system which she is forced to adhere. She doesn't come across as being pleased the play stations are being taken away or excited that K'ers have to begin reading so quickly. Do you think that maybe it isn't her preference that children be put into a remedial class right away? Or that perhaps this is a small percentage of the total number of students? It seems like she just doesn't have a choice in the matter. Quite frankly, her comment about parents who don't care to work with their children sounds quite a bit like the complaints about PS parents that are posted frequently on this board.

 

I got the same feeling as you about this teacher. I don't think she said anything wrong--she was stating the facts, not giving her opinion from what I can tell. I have a good friend who teaches in PS and she says the same things. This teacher never said SHE forces them into remedial classes, just that the kids would be forced. That is likely school board policy, not HER policy. It's not her choice, she just has to do what they tell her to do. A teacher is not a parent and should NOT have to take on the role of mother all day long. She's probably required by the state (Her boss!) to have all the kids to a certain point at the end of the year if she wants to stay employed. So how can you hold it against her to be frustrated if she's supposed to teach them to read and her kids can't even recognize at least SOME of the letters or count to ten?

 

My friend teaches in a low income area. About half of her class can barely speak English at the beginning of the year. They are expected to come into school and learn. SHE has all the pressure of teaching many of them first to speak English, then to teach them to read and count and tie their shoes. She gets no support from the parents. She sends notes home to sign, they don't come back. She sets up teacher conferences, no one shows up. She asks for parent volunteers so they can go on field trips, no one will do it. Oh and she has a class of 27 five year olds every year! She's overwhelmed, she's frustrated and she's stressed. But she does the best she can with what she's given and sees her job as a calling to kids who just don't get what they need at home. And from what I gather, she's just like most other PS teachers who are given an impossible task and expected to get it done.

 

I didn't decide to home school to avoid teachers like the one you spoke with. I home school to avoid my kids making friends with kids who have parents who don't give a crap because uninvolved parents generally lead to trouble-making kids down the road. But I almost decided not to home school because I don't want to deal with "people like you" who are so judgmental of the teachers who are just doing the best they can in the public schools. It may not be right for my kids but at least there are willing people out there, working within the INSANE policies set forth and still do the best they can for the kids.

[Rhonda in TX]

My children went to a private school for a few years before we started homeschooling. My DD desperately wanted to learn to read, but she just did not get much beyond a few sight words by the end of K. She just wasn't ready. At the end of first grade, she won her class's reading award.

 

I would hate to think that she would have been put in remedial classes when all she needed was a bit of time. My dad (retired PS elementary school teacher and a reading specialist) would be appalled!!

[Saille]

Her observance that children who don't read at that age often come from disinterested parents seems accurate to me - not in all instances, but it would certainly make sense that a parent who's not at all proactive with their child's education would have a child that reads later than other.

 

Certainly I worked with a great many children for whom this was the case...however, this attitude, more or less publicly expressed by a teacher at a Girl Scout function, has the potential to get back to said parent. I've seen this sort of teacher gossip make enemies of parents where otherwise they might have been empowered; teachers frequently live in the community in which they work, and I've heard a conversation like that lead straight into comments about specific families. I've seen children's librarians do this, too. A parent who is unsure of his or her own academic skills is already feeling out of place and vulnerable in a school or library setting. The wrong word at the wrong time puts them right over the edge.

[Saille]

This is why I am quitting teaching ps in 4 weeks. I hate the politics that decide what I teach and when as opposed to my professional judgement on what would be best for the group of students I teach. Tuis is why my children will not go to school because if they don't fit in the pretty box then they will get labeled adhd or lazy when with the right instruction they would do just fine, oh and not being forced to sit quietly in a seat for an hour at a time.

 

LOL, welcome, sister! We should start a social group for ex-public school teachers turned WTM-er.

 

I loved so many people at my ps jobs, but the system itself was a mess, and it certainly enabled some extraordinarily lousy teachers (and a herd of mediocre ones) to have long and flourishing careers.

 

I was considered a "good" teacher. I was awarded TOTY for my building the year my youngest was born (it's a peer nomination/voting process, so there was consensus, anyway). When I look back over those years, my teaching style and the content I was teaching were so different from what I consider important now...different even from what I thought I wanted to do when I first considered homeschooling. I was still living in cross-curricular unit study whole language land. It's very strange to think about.

[Laurie4b]

Really good point.

 

Interesting that the reason parents didn't teach was laziness or indifference--not lack of confidence for instance, which some support might change. (I'd be supporting this point for older kids--for kindergarten children, I don't think academics should be pushed.)

 

Oh and wouldn't this be the same crowd who says that parents aren't qualified to homeschool because professionals should do it but the parents should have taught a kid to read and write before kindergarten?

[Renee in NC]

Really good point.

 

Interesting that the reason parents didn't teach was laziness or indifference--not lack of confidence for instance, which some support might change. (I'd be supporting this point for older kids--for kindergarten children, I don't think academics should be pushed.)

 

Oh and wouldn't this be the same crowd who says that parents aren't qualified to homeschool because professionals should do it but the parents should have taught a kid to read and write before kindergarten?

 

Or inability to speak English. Or pure tiredness after working 2 full time jobs. Or a myriad of other things. I hate that people assume laziness or indifference when it simply isn't true. I am sure that I would have been labeled as such considering my 7yo *still* doesn't read (and his 9yo brother is just starting.)

 

My 6yo does (and did at 5), so I would have been a caring involved parent of her and a lazy, indifferent parent to the boys.

[PineFarmMom]

Oh and wouldn't this be the same crowd who says that parents aren't qualified to homeschool because professionals should do it but the parents should have taught a kid to read and write before kindergarten?

 

 

That is what is strange about it all to me as well. I specifically remember a p.s. teacher telling me not to teach my oldest to read early because I wasn't a professional and I would mess it up.

[angela in ohio]

I think the public schools are swinging back a bit from "play based" pre-k and kindergarten. Teachers will complain about that, as it causes them to have to teach.

 

When I went to kindergarten many long years ago, there were no play stations. We did phonics and math and writing. We played blocks and trains and such at home. Parents actually bought imaginative toys for their own dc or let them run around and make up their own games (instead of TV.)

 

Then there was a push to move to "play based" learning, with stations of toys and no academics. This was in full swing when my dd hit preschool. Then we saw the sad results of that. Now schools are moving back to a more academic kindergarten.

 

See, THAT is why I homeschool: so that I can follow a long-term, well thought out plan, rather than the latest eduational fad. I don't blame the teachers much for that; they are products of the insane teacher colleges they have to constantly take classes through.

[In The Great White North]

Her observance that children who don't read at that age often come from disinterested parents seems accurate to me - not in all instances, but it would certainly make sense that a parent who's not at all proactive with their child's education would have a child that reads later than other.

 

In addition to the child simply not being ready (mine did not read til 8 or 9), not enough time in the day, lack of confidence, etc, some people have philosophical objections to teaching reading to younger children, especially if they've been around Waldorf schools a bit.

[Sahamamama]

Reading this, I see a K teacher who is trying to do her best with the system which she is forced to adhere. She doesn't come across as being pleased the play stations are being taken away or excited that K'ers have to begin reading so quickly. Do you think that maybe it isn't her preference that children be put into a remedial class right away? Or that perhaps this is a small percentage of the total number of students? It seems like she just doesn't have a choice in the matter. Quite frankly, her comment about parents who don't care to work with their children sounds quite a bit like the complaints about PS parents that are posted frequently on this board.

 

:iagree: That's what I thought. Why attack this teacher? She's probably going to have a horrible year.

 

I have a friend who taught the "play-based" type of kindergarten class for 25 years. She loved it, her students and parents loved her, they all had a great K experience, year after tender year. Then the administration decreed, "Thou shalt have reading groups. Thou shalt test to standards." And every toy disappeared from the classroom over the summer -- no more sand tables, no more "kitchen stuff," no more blocks, no more dolls, no more trucks and trains, no more class pets. It was so hard for Fran, so incredibly depressing to her to see groups of pathetic, tear-stained little boys sitting at their "reading pods," saying, "Mrs. __________, I don't know, I don't know, I can't do it..." :crying:

 

You know what Fran did? She retired. She did so with grace and dignity, but also with grief and mourning -- that was 3 years ago, and she still grieves the loss of "what Kindergarten used to be."

 

She said that in the beginning, she was expected to teach children their shapes, colors, how to count to 10, their alphabet (just to recognize the letters), and how to share, play together, put away toys, hang up their jackets, eat a snack together, and sing lots of songs. And read stories. And do Show and Tell. And put on a little class program once a year for parents.

 

As time went by, she no longer needed to teach colors, shapes, and so on, since most of this was already learned by children at home or in preschool. So the K classes then focused more on group and individual play, story time, language development, and class routines. The K-class also became a full-day program. She said it felt very home-like, the children had a "Quiet Time" every day on little mats, and she knew so many parents from having taught several of their older children.

 

Then came the "academic emphasis" for Kindergarten, and my friend was crushed -- and driven out -- by it. Did all the old-fashioned, piano-playing, tune-singing, story-telling, snuggly-huggy teachers get pushed out by this new, colder, harder, modern vision of an "academic" Kindergarten? If so, don't blame the teachers.

 

I wasn't a part of the conversation the OP had with yet another discouraged K teacher, but I feel that her response was overly harsh and judgmental -- maybe the teacher thought she had found a confidante, only to be blasted in the end? Maybe she was simply venting her frustration with a system that forces her to carry out edicts which she does not like but has no power to change?

 

Get angry at the administration, not the teacher. Just my two cents.

[unsinkable]

Really good point.

 

Interesting that the reason parents didn't teach was laziness or indifference--not lack of confidence for instance, which some support might change. (I'd be supporting this point for older kids--for kindergarten children, I don't think academics should be pushed.)

 

Oh and wouldn't this be the same crowd who says that parents aren't qualified to homeschool because professionals should do it but the parents should have taught a kid to read and write before kindergarten?

 

I know, right? :lol:

[juelle]

I asked her what they did with children who were developmentally not ready to do all of those things at 5 years old and she said most of them will have to be put into remedial classes so they can be "forced" (yes, she said "forced") to catch up. She said in her experience most of those types of children are just lazy or have parents who don't care to work with them.

 

.

 

In our district, 1 in 8 of the kindergartners has a 'label' of some kind, a huge proportion of those being on the autism spectrum. My very able dd believed all through elementary school that she was not 'good at school work' because she thought the other kids were pulled out for extra classes on account of their being smarter than she is!

 

There's lots more money for all the mandated provisions for those labelled kids.

 

Makes me sad and angry every time I think about it.

[T'smom]

I haven't had a chance to read all of the responses, but I think you're angry at the wrong person. She said she was unhappy with getting rid of the creative stations. Her use of the word 'force' implies to me that she doesn't agree with that either. But she doesn't have any control over what she's told to do.

When she talks about parents not caring- there are plenty of kids out there whose parents DON'T CARE. She might have said they didn't care enough to put them in pre-school, but she meant that they didn't care enough to expose them to life. There will be kids starting K without ever having done a craft project. Without ever having held scissors, seen glue, etc. No one has EVER read a book to them. No one has counted with them, taken them to the zoo or talked about what color shirt they are wearing. If a child has gone to pre-school at least they have been exposed to these things. I'm 99.9% sure that is what she meant. She's not talking about your kids or my kids or the kids who have done the things on that list.

I used to teach at a school that was literally on the beach of Lake Michigan- you could look out a back window and see the lake. That means that all the kids lived within a few miles of Lake Michigan. A full 1/3 of my 6th grade class had never seen it. (It was a school that just opened- otherwise younger grade teachers would've taken them) I also taught in a tiny town that didn't have more than a tiny grocery store and gas station. In 45 minutes, you could be in a large city with everything that a city has to offer. Probably 25% of my 5th/6th graders had never been to that city. (Though they had been to a town 15 min. away that had Wal-Mart adn McDs) Never been to a zoo or a museum or even a mall.

I agree with the teacher you talked to- there are parents who don't care. Their kids suffer for it. It is highly unlikely (though not impossible) that any of the kids in that category would be able to compete with my kids for jobs/college entrance/etc. She is simply expressing her frustration that these situations exist--I certainly was when I was teaching. There is only so much a teacher can do.

[LuvToRead]

I taught preschool for 4 years. If a child can't read by the time they start K, it has nothing to do with laziness or indifferent parents. Sometimes a child just isn't ready. I knew the parents of the students, and I know most of them worked with their children. Yes, I know I'm preaching to the choir here. My DD5 is not ready to read, she just isn't. I've been working with her for 2 years.

 

I have a friend whose little boy had a tutor in K because he was "so far behind". It was either that, or put him in a remedial class.

[coop]

I pulled my son out of public school not long after a meeting with his K teacher. She was concerned that he was not reading yet! I was sooo fearful that he was going to be labeled. I was in remedial classes as a kid...the stuff I was exposed to...there was no way I was going to let that happen to my ds.

 

Ds now reads everything he can get his hands on and will have no trouble getting into a good college-- just like me. He wasn't ready. I guess we are just slow starters:)

 

Kids are all different and ps is just not able to adapt to every child. They simply have no choice, but to label the kids and move on without them. Praise the Lord that we live in a country where we have the freedom to hs! You have to feel sorry for the kids whose parents don't have the time or interest in helping them reach their full potential.

 

I'm reminded of a scene from "The Blind Side" where a teacher actually takes the time to discover that "Big Mike is not stupid". One teacher out of a room full.....that's all it takes. I have deep respect for teachers like that, but they are few and far between.