S/O on the college funding threads

[Jane in NC]

My perspective is that of a parent whose child has been going through the college application process this year. He is an only, we are reasonably well off. So there is no financial hardship for us to contribute to his college education although we said from the get go that we would not be paying $50,000+ annually. The expectation was that my son would pursue merit scholarships.

 

There are a lot of ideas that are regularly floated based on how things worked in the past when parents attended college. Or on how a friend or family member is doing things now. But all of the anecdotes are based on assumptions that are not necessarily true for all.

 

One regularly mentioned idea: community college. My son did attend the local CC where he accrued 26 hours but after three semesters he exhausted the possibilities there. His first English class was terrific, his second a waste of time. General Chem II was excellent, his two other lab science courses very good. There are a couple of issues here: not all community college instruction is top notched, the student population is often indifferent to education (not always, but some of the students at our CC are duds!), and there are limited course offerings. We know many families who thought their students would do two and two: CC followed by public uni. But it is usually two and three since neither CCs nor universities offer all of a students needed courses every semester. In fact, just yesterday I met up with a regional university student from Germany whom I have befriended. There is a class that she must take for graduation. It is full. Despite pleas from her adviser and the student, the professor is not budging. This could mean that the student will have to spend an additional semester at the university as her spring internship could take her to another city.

 

Many parents say that they plan on having their students reside at home and attend a regional university. Our regional university (in driving distance) does not have departments in my son's areas of interest. It does not offer engineering for those wishing to pursue that field. Anyone in my geographic area who wishes to pursue a pharmacy degree or certain medical related fields must leave the region. One young lady whom we know is studying speech therapy. Two years at the local school gave her some foundational courses, but she has to do more than two years at her university to complete the requirements.

 

What about AP? It used to be that many colleges gave credit for students earning 3 or above on the AP exam. Now credit for a 3 is less common. Some schools give credit for 4's or 5's--some just use the test for placement purposes. This is one of the situations that require one to check with the college.

 

Most of the colleges to which my son applied do not give credit for CLEP. I suspect that many schools will tighten this policy even more since they want your money!

 

Not all colleges give merit aid. Many of the most competitive schools only provide financial assistance. Great, many parents say. We should qualify for a boatload. These same parents pick themselves off the floor when they fill out the FAFSA. There is an assumption that all parents are saving for their children's educations all along.

 

Private colleges are more likely to give merit aid than state universities. (YMMV.) My son received generous offers which make the private schools the same price or less than public universities. Further, many private schools are selling themselves on how their students can complete a degree within four years.

 

And what about all of those scholarships that go unclaimed annually? Or supposedly go unclaimed? We had a chat about that on the College Board (here). No one is going to turn down $1000, but a thousand dollars does not go very far to pay the college bills these days.

 

A number of us over on the college/high school board have concluded that the best bet for an affordable college education is high performance on standardized testing, a rigorous high school transcript and a focused student--then look for a college offering merit aid where your student is a good fit. It is hard work being the college counselor, but there can be a reward for the labor. But I would not expect a full ride reward without some parental contribution and/or student loan. This is rare indeed.

 

Not all of the readers of the General Board follow the threads on the College Board where we have been involved in the nitty-gritty (and realities) of testing, applications (including supplements), FAFSAs, CSS Profiles, etc. I hope that some of these parents might contribute to this thread to assist those of you with younger children in some of your long term planning.

 

Best,

Jane

[elegantlion]

Thank you, Jane.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Thank you for this wonderful post.

[melissel]

Yes, thank you Jane. I'm going to hide under my bed now :(

 

(I kid, of course :D But seriously, this is such scary stuff, especially since I just quit my job to stay home! Thank you for sharing your experience with us.)

[emubird]

From fiddling with different scenarios on the FAFSA, I came to the conclusion that parental assets aren't being weighted all that heavily. It's the current income that seems to matter most. So saving for college probably doesn't do much to reduce the need based aid. (As long as it's saved in the parents' name).

 

CLEP -- I was seeing that few colleges are taking much CLEP credit now. Is it maybe more common at the public universities?

[Mejane]

We've run into many of the problems you've mentioned. Our cc has slim pickings, and many of the classes fill quickly. As well, our state univ does not accept CLEP credits. It can be incredibly frustrating.

 

Although it seems lacking to many people, online school looks better all the time.

[Jane in NC]

From fiddling with different scenarios on the FAFSA, I came to the conclusion that parental assets aren't being weighted all that heavily. It's the current income that seems to matter most. So saving for college probably doesn't do much to reduce the need based aid. (As long as it's saved in the parents' name).

 

 

 

Regarding parental assets: some colleges do take them into account. In addition to the FAFSA, some schools require a supplemental form that could ask questions regarding real property. The CSS Profile, used by a number of elite schools, does include all assets. It was the most invasive document I have ever encountered.

[Nicole M]

I am so glad that you brought this up, Jane. There was a thread a month or so on the K-8 board that was started to encourage parents to begin saving for their children's educations now, while they are young. I was so disheartened by the general tone of the folks responding, which I interpreted as no way, no how. I know that these are hard times, financially for many of us, but still, I am hard pressed to imagine that even $5 or $10 asking too much. For some, yes, that is too much.

 

Unlike many parents, I felt our EFC (expected family contribution) generated by the FAFSA was absolutely fair. My husband and I both work at a small liberal arts college that participates in the National Tuition Exchange program. The NTE set dollar amount award this year is $30,000. Colleges vary in how many scholarships they offer, but typically they try to give take in as many students as they have going out to other schools. Staff salaries on most campuses are not anywhere near to comparable to those in the "real world" so the tuition remission is a huge selling point in drawing employees. Many of us on campus earn an annual salary that is significantly less than the cost of tuition. It was difficult, on our salaries, to save very much, but we saved a little. We were totally banking on the tuition exchange.

 

Yesterday we finally received my son's financial aid package for his first choice school. They had already let us know in his acceptance letter that they had decided to change their NTE policy. Rather than give out the award to some and not others, they have decided to give half the award to all applicants. So the 30K / year amount would be given only during the student's junior and senior year. This was just devastating news. I understand the motivation -- they will not have to give any new students money for the next two years. But it's a sneaky way of getting out of offering the award, because they must know that folks cannot afford those first two years. They offered him a huge merit award, 19K plus work study and loans, but still, the dollar amount that we would be responsible for each year is about 4/5th of my salary, three times our EFC. Even beans and rice cost something.

 

My son does have another option, but it is hard to have a door closed in your face. I wish now that we'd saved more. I wish a lot of things. Yesterday, getting that news, I could not stop crying (and I was at work! mortifying!), I could not stop questioning every decision I'd made up until that point. It was ridiculous. But as I was walking home, I was remembering that thread on the K-8 board, and hoping that we could revisit this discussion. I was remembering that thread and thinking exactly what you said, Jane, that the protests about saving were based on incorrect assumptions.

 

My son also took courses at the Community College. Since we know so many people in the academic community here, we were able to hand-pick his courses. One of the professors from where I work regularly moonlights at the CC, so my son was able to take Geology with him, which was fantastic. On the whole, his CC experience has been better than can be expected because of our connections. But again, as Jane mentioned, the school where I work, for instance, will not accept any credits from that CC. (Snobby. And yes, they want your money.) Colleges are allowed to simply say, we won't accept those CC credits. So that is something to consider as well.

 

I know things will work out, but as is often the case with big life choices / changes, this is messier and harder than I imagined. I wish the best to other parents with younger children, and would encourage them to tuck away at least a small amount, just as a contingency plan.

[Karenciavo]

Jane, you are such an asset on this forum. Thank you for posting this.

[LibraryLover]

Excellent.

 

I am not participating in the college funding threads because too many peole have no idea what is going on out there, and do not want to know.

 

There was nothing for our high -scoring, straight A college-age ds at the local CC. Dank. Nada. The local uni majors also didn't work for him, although for another child of ours those offerrings will fit. So, yk, we had to move out of the 10 block/live at home radius.

 

If one can find a great nieghborhood school fit, tons of financial aid, a huge merit package (don't take SATs in MA or NY etc) , and the young person can make 20k or so during the summer, well, yk, I won't wake you from that nice dream. I still dream it. lol :)

 

OK, back to the point: Good post.

Edited April 24, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Nicole M]

As an aside, I will mention that we feel that living on campus is non-negotiable, at least for the first year. Even if my son were attending the college where we work, which is less than a mile from our house, we would insist that he live on campus that first year. Technically, he could get a $49,000 education for about $300 (student fees) if he lived at home and went to school there. And yes, he would be getting a fine education. But college to me, and apparently it seems I'm in the minority on these boards, is about more than the degree or the classes themselves.

 

For parents whose children are happy at home, that's awesome. My son wants and needs to be away and on his own, and has worked hard to do that. If financial disaster hit, and he had to live at home next year, we'd suck it up.

[JFSinIL]

Not all colleges give merit aid. Many of the most competitive schools only provide financial assistance. Great, many parents say. We should qualify for a boatload. These same parents pick themselves off the floor when they fill out the FAFSA. There is an assumption that all parents are saving for their children's educations all along.

 

Yup - before ds applied anywhere we used an on-line calculator to get an idea of our EFC - we used TWO, in fact, and got two numbers $4,000 apart.We were alarmed, but hoped the lesser number would prevail.

 

The higher number still ended up off by $6,000!!! when the FAFSA was done!!!!

 

Private colleges are more likely to give merit aid than state universities. (YMMV.) My son received generous offers which make the private schools the same price or less than public universities. Further, many private schools are selling themselves on how their students can complete a degree within four years.

 

Yes - this is what we found, too - so ds is going to a LAC three hours from home with a total of $18,500 in merit aid, which with work study, Stafford loans and a small outside scholarship he just won still leaves us owing over $14,000 a year :glare:(this was our higher end original figure, pre-FAFSA) Less than our EFC - thank you, Augustana College for LISTENING!!!

 

Note - his AP scores will only get him general ed credits at Augie. Oh, well. I think they did help him win those merit scholarships, though!

 

 

 

!!!!! I messed up - my bits got mixed in with the quoted stuff in the blue box. I am still not good at this technology stuff. Too old.

[JFSinIL]

Regarding parental assets: some colleges do take them into account. In addition to the FAFSA, some schools require a supplemental form that could ask questions regarding real property. The CSS Profile, used by a number of elite schools, does include all assets. It was the most invasive document I have ever encountered.

 

For us,one of the three schools (out of 11) that required the Profile actually offered the most money, coming in below the EFC (Gettysburg). Another had a financial aid office that was a stinker about sticking to the EFC (Il. Wesleyan).

[MIch elle]

Thank you for taking the time to help inform us! :001_smile:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Thanks for the info:) I think the cost of college education these days is a monumental problem and I hope something is done about it since it is truly becoming unaffordable IMHO. It also drives me nuts that colleges have in place many policies that do not allow for easy transfer of credits or getting credit via testing:glare:

[6packofun]

I know, I'm terrified! I'm especially terrified as the mother of an *average* student and as a low-income family who hasn't been able to provide the opportunities I would have loved for my kids to have. :( In some ways, being poor can be a real hindrance to a good education and getting aid. Yes, yes, we must all try to rise above our circumstances, yada yada, but the reality is harsh. I'll take all the info and advice I can get. lol

[Jane in NC]

I am so glad that you brought this up, Jane. There was a thread a month or so on the K-8 board that was started to encourage parents to begin saving for their children's educations now, while they are young. I was so disheartened by the general tone of the folks responding, which I interpreted as no way, no how. I know that these are hard times, financially for many of us, but still, I am hard pressed to imagine that even $5 or $10 asking too much. For some, yes, that is too much.

 

 

First let me recognize the responders to my initial post: You are welcome and I am warmed by your kind words.

 

Secondly, as a follow up to Nicole's comment above: Here is the thread.

[Jane in NC]

I know, I'm terrified! I'm especially terrified as the mother of an *average* student and as a low-income family who hasn't been able to provide the opportunities I would have loved for my kids to have. :( In some ways, being poor can be a real hindrance to a good education and getting aid. Yes, yes, we must all try to rise above our circumstances, yada yada, but the reality is harsh. I'll take all the info and advice I can get. lol

 

I was not an average student, but I did grow up in a lower income, blue collar family where, interestingly enough, education was a priority. My mother made sure that I made a weekly trip to the public library. My father had a bookcase of the Great Books sitting next to "his" chair in the living room.

 

No financial prerequisites for reading Plato, you know?

 

Be well.

Jane

[Brilliant]

...If financial disaster hit, and he had to live at home next year, we'd suck it up.

 

But, Nicole, I thought you said in your previous post that financial disaster HAD hit? That colleges are not honoring the tuition exchange you thought you'd get?

[FairProspects]

As an aside, I will mention that we feel that living on campus is non-negotiable, at least for the first year. Even if my son were attending the college where we work, which is less than a mile from our house, we would insist that he live on campus that first year. Technically, he could get a $49,000 education for about $300 (student fees) if he lived at home and went to school there. And yes, he would be getting a fine education. But college to me, and apparently it seems I'm in the minority on these boards, is about more than the degree or the classes themselves.

 

For parents whose children are happy at home, that's awesome. My son wants and needs to be away and on his own, and has worked hard to do that. If financial disaster hit, and he had to live at home next year, we'd suck it up.

 

Although we are still years from this (thankfully, as we are currently working hard to pay off our own education), I fully :iagree:. Thank you for expressing this as it is not an opinion I find to be popular on the boards!

[Nicole M]

But, Nicole, I thought you said in your previous post that financial disaster HAD hit? That colleges are not honoring the tuition exchange you thought you'd get?

 

One college, Knox, did offer the tuition exchange scholarship. We haven't seen it yet, though, and their music program is not as strong as ds's first choice school. So we're swooping out for a visit next week. They get major points in the category of best deal for liberal arts colleges -- their tuition is "only" 32K! I was thinking more in terms of my husband's job being outsourced as a disaster category. (Which one is the wry smile emoticon?)

[cathmom]

I have one in college. I think that right now, sadly enough, we are in the best possible position for him - good student with good test scores and an impressive transcript, very low family income with no assets, and an EFC of 0. But most people probably would not like to live like this LOL. I'm hoping that things change in the college market before my younger children become college age, especially since 3 of them could be in college at the same time for five years!

 

Thanks, Jane, for explaining it all so clearly!

 

Nicole, we felt the same way about our oldest living on campus. For years I had been advocating living at home during college (this is what both dh and I did), but in his situation, I felt living on campus was best. Back in the day when I commuted, gas was cheap. Now with needing a car and all the related expenses to commute, it may be about the same to live on campus!

[creekland]

As an aside, I will mention that we feel that living on campus is non-negotiable, at least for the first year. ... But college to me, and apparently it seems I'm in the minority on these boards, is about more than the degree or the classes themselves.

 

 

 

:iagree: I'm with you in the minority here. My boys are going to 4 year schools and living on campus - at least to start. I consider that as worthy an investment as the academics.

 

We've also had experience with cc classes and I don't consider them anywhere near the same as what I expect from the 4 year schools, so there's no way we're doing 2 and 2. The cc classes I've seen would be similar to honors high school classes in my experience. In effect, that's what we're using them for. (I've heard there are better ones out there - that might be true.) I also know not all 4 year schools are the same in educational/academic level. A school my money and my kid go to (to paraphrase a popular bumper sticker) has to meet certain levels of educational value within their major for me. I don't want to pay a ton for a mediocre education. We're also not paying a ton for prestige or name brand. We did a lot of work to find the best fit for my son's planned future - and will do the same for the next two down the line.

 

Fortunately for us, oldest son scored well in the merit aid category. Unfortunately for us, our investments that were carefully planned for college did extremely poorly with us losing quite a bit of what we put in as well as not making anything off of it (I wish we'd taken the month long trips to Africa and Asia instead of investing to be honest... as we would have lost less, but hindsight never really helps out). Therefore, his extra will be met with loans + I'm working more. He should graduate with no more than 20K in loans - possibly less. If we can, we'll help him pay those off too. I can't imagine anyone having 100K+ in loans.

[Jane in NC]

While the oldest has put off a four-year degree until after his service in the USMC, the two younger children plan to either (a) transfer from the local college to a state school via a transfer agreement or (b) attend college abroad. (See Maya Frost's The New Global Student to better understand their plan -- a plan that is exciting not only for its obvious educational benefits but also for its fiscal wisdom: Universidad de Buenos Aires, for example, is free to all students, including foreigners.) Both girls are looking at science-oriented fields: scientific illustration and and science education.

 

 

 

Here is a discussion of Maya Frost's book for those who missed it.

 

How fortunate that your local college has courses in scientific illustration! This is rare indeed.

 

Best,

Jane

[Nicole M]

:iagree: I'm with you in the minority here. My boys are going to 4 year schools and living on campus - at least to start. I consider that as worthy an investment as the academics.

 

We've also had experience with cc classes and I don't consider them anywhere near the same as what I expect from the 4 year schools, so there's no way we're doing 2 and 2. The cc classes I've seen would be similar to honors high school classes in my experience. In effect, that's what we're using them for. (I've heard there are better ones out there - that might be true.) I also know not all 4 year schools are the same in educational/academic level. A school my money and my kid go to (to paraphrase a popular bumper sticker) has to meet certain levels of educational value within their major for me. I don't want to pay a ton for a mediocre education. We're also not paying a ton for prestige or name brand. We did a lot of work to find the best fit for my son's planned future - and will do the same for the next two down the line.

 

I agree with you that community college courses can be mediocre. Although my son has worked with really wonderful professors, I would say that the writing that is required is both not enough and not of the caliber that will be expected of him at a four year institution. My son is not a natural writer, so I have had to help him quite a bit, and I expect that next year he will need to take full advantage of the writing center at whichever four year school he attends.

 

Fortunately for us, oldest son scored well in the merit aid category. Unfortunately for us, our investments that were carefully planned for college did extremely poorly with us losing quite a bit of what we put in as well as not making anything off of it (I wish we'd taken the month long trips to Africa and Asia instead of investing to be honest... as we would have lost less, but hindsight never really helps out). Therefore, his extra will be met with loans + I'm working more. He should graduate with no more than 20K in loans - possibly less. If we can, we'll help him pay those off too. I can't imagine anyone having 100K+ in loans.

 

I'm sorry about your investments. (Truly sorry, but every time I think about the economy, I remember that commercial with the eTrade baby: "I wanna punch the economy in the face!") Today I was giving myself a pep talk about our choices, and remembering that while, yes, I've given up a lot of income in my not-exactly-a-career choice, I wouldn't trade the experiences we've had living and working on a campus for more income. My son (and I) have met Robert Pinskey, Sherman Alexie, Terri Tempest Williams, Steven Prothero, Chris Hughes, Philip Glass... amazing thinkers and artists of our times. Hindsight, right, not helpful, but perspective, yes, helpful.

 

And I'm glad you're able to swing a quality education and minimize the debt, though I'm sorry this isn't working out how you'd have wanted. I totally agree about starting out with so much debt, how hard that would be.

[Caroline]

For us,one of the three schools (out of 11) that required the Profile actually offered the most money, coming in below the EFC (Gettysburg). Another had a financial aid office that was a stinker about sticking to the EFC (Il. Wesleyan).

 

JFS, I think your family situation should allow your kids to get more financial aid than families not in your situation. I think medical care of a sibling (or even the college applicant himself) should warrant a special category of financial aid, and it amazes me that it isn't automatically taken into account. I would love to work to change that. I don't know how to go about that, though. If you figure out whom I should write to, call, etc, please let me know.

 

As the mom of a high school freshman, soon to be sophomore, I appreciate all of the information I read on the College Board. You all are an incredible source of information, anecdotal evidence, and support. Now, if I could just figure out how to add our afterschooled classes to my son's high school transcript... I am wondering if I could just send in a second transcript with his Latin and extra math classes.

[Jane in NC]

 

As the mom of a high school freshman, soon to be sophomore, I appreciate all of the information I read on the College Board. You all are an incredible source of information, anecdotal evidence, and support. Now, if I could just figure out how to add our afterschooled classes to my son's high school transcript... I am wondering if I could just send in a second transcript with his Latin and extra math classes.

 

Caroline, I would. You could create a second transcript or write a parental letter of support that documents these other accomplishments. Of course, your son's afterschool Latin class might also be something that he could write about in his personal statement on the Common App if he is going that route.

 

As homeschool parents we can attach all sorts of documents to an application. I don't see why you could not create some extra things to include in his file. The college can then choose to read it or ignore it. It has been my experience that admissions counselors like to know their applicants and hence welcome any extra information.

 

Also, this is the sort of information that a student includes on an application to an honor's program at a state university. So that might be another way of bringing it to the table.

 

Best,

Jane

[Kareni]

Thanks for starting this great discussion, Jane.

 

As an aside, I will mention that we feel that living on campus is non-negotiable, at least for the first year. ....

 

For parents whose children are happy at home, that's awesome. My son wants and needs to be away and on his own, and has worked hard to do that.

 

 

 

I'm another who feels strongly that her child needs to live away from home. (Not only for the experience but also because I'd be guilty of attempting to micro-manage her life and studies!) I gained so much from living on campus as a student -- 2:00am philosophical discussions and all night study sessions to name just two. My husband who lived off campus as an undergraduate spent a lot of time commuting and managing daily life (i.e., shopping and cooking). He missed out on group study sessions as well as camaraderie with fellow students.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[TravelingChris]

All of my kids will go away for college. In the case of my oldest, we were living in Belgium when he went to college. He had no viable local option. He did go to a college for 2.5 years and then got sick. He is finishing going to a good state university with a strong program in his major that just happens to be about 5 miles away. Now we are hoping that we don't get transferred before he graduates but if we are, back to dorms or to a shared apt. he goes. For our next one, we won;t know where we will be living when she actually goes to college when she is applying (unless we do move this summer). Obviously she has to apply to places she wants to attend and we will move wherever the AF sends us. IN the third ones case, she needs to go to an engineering school and she is also our most social one. Going away to a good engineering school is what's in store for her. We don't know where we will be living but I do know that I want her doing basic engineering, math, and physics courses at a good school and not at a CC. SHe can do things like calculus or other science courses at CC but I would expect her to do more advanced calculus and other math at the school she chooses,

 

Now in terms of EFC, I have tried the calculators. They are saying we should be able to pay 44k and that isn't counting any savings since our savings are below the threshold that they count. I can well tell you that we do not have anything like that kind of money. WHat we are planning for number three is that she is a very smart girl going into a very male dominated field and even more unusually, she is also an extrovert. I think that will bring in enough merit aid that it will be affordable for us. (Once my dh retires and gets another job plus retirement, I think we will be able to afford something like 25K). 44k is simply out of the question when we don't have much savings and we don't own a house and only own older used cars.

[Matryoshka]

If one can find a great nieghborhood school fit, tons of financial aid, a huge merit package (don't take SATs in MA or NY etc)

 

Library, would you mind elaborating on what you mean there? Do you mean if you live in MA you should drive to NH to take the SATs, or you should take the ACTs intstead, or you're screwed when it comes to merit aid no matter what? :glare:

[LibraryLover]

Library, would you mind elaborating on what you mean there? Do you mean if you live in MA you should drive to NH to take the SATs, or you should take the ACTs intstead, or you're screwed when it comes to merit aid no matter what? :glare:

 

 

:) You need to take SATs where you live. MA and a few other states demand much higher scores to qualify for SAT Merit Scholarships.

[DawnM]

I am one who commented that we could afford to send our own children to the local 4 year school and have them live at home, other than that, they will have to pay the difference.

 

I should add a caveat to that. IF my child were to score well and want to go into a field that would indeed require him to attend a particular school (like medicine), you can bet we would make every effort to help him however we could so that he could achieve that end.

 

However, for MOST undergraduate degrees, it isn't as important where you attended undergrad and you can specialize as needed in grad school.

 

I also have no idea where we will live when the boys are college age. When we lived in Los Angeles, the options for college locally were limitless. DH and I both went to grad school in SoCal.

 

We also have a son with some learning disabilities (our oldest) and we have no problem with him living at home while going to school and NOT working as it may be too overwhelming for him to work and try to finish college. We would rather him FINISH and then work.

 

Dawn

[Matryoshka]

:) You need to take SATs where you live. MA and a few other states demand much higher scores to qualify for SAT Merit Scholarships.

 

Ah. Figures. :glare:

 

It's not bad enough that the cost of living here is so much higher, and the schools here are ridiculously expensive, but kids need *higher* scores to get financial aid. :glare::glare:

[Photo Ninja]

This is a timely thread. Thinking about college expenses keep me up at night - really. I can't get past it. I don't know how to work it out.

 

Yes, where you live affects SAT merit scholarships. My understanding is that the score needed for merit scholarship is determined by the scores of other students in the area where you live. If you score high in an area where other students' scores are generally low, you need a lower score to get the scholarship. If you live in an area where students tend to score high (we do), then you need a very high score to get the merit scholarship. My dc would have received merit scholarships had we lived in other states. Their scores were high enough for that, but not high enough for where we live.

 

We have three dc in college. The cc option has worked well for them, and all the classes transfer to the universities for two dc. Most the classes transferred for my other dc. Apparently we are fortunate that way, considering what other posters have said about their cc classes. The cc option for two years has saved a lot of college expense for two of our dc. Our other ds completed a semester of classes while in high school and they all transferred to his university.

 

Our FAFSA EFC, added together for 3 dc full time in college, is over 1/3 of our yearly income. It is not possible for us to devote over 1/3 of our income to college expenses. It is not a realistic expectation. We don't qualify for any grants, work study, etc. My dc all have jobs. One has a good merit scholarship. Another is on track to hopefully get a good transfer merit scholarship. But those still don't cover all the costs. Loans are the only option if they want to go to college - and they do. They can only achieve their long term goals if they go to college.

 

Honestly, I am afraid that since we have to co-sign for their student loans (or they can't get them) that we will accumulate too much debt and the lenders will refuse to issue another loan, resulting in our dc not being able to finish college.

[jld]

PhotoNinja, I just showed your post to dh, and he said he thinks your lender will feel it is in their best interest to loan you the money so your kids can finish college, and with their degrees, be able to pay back the loans. Hope this provides some encouragement!

[creekland]

I'm sorry about your investments. (Truly sorry, but every time I think about the economy, I remember that commercial with the eTrade baby: "I wanna punch the economy in the face!") Today I was giving myself a pep talk about our choices, and remembering that while, yes, I've given up a lot of income in my not-exactly-a-career choice, I wouldn't trade the experiences we've had living and working on a campus for more income. My son (and I) have met Robert Pinskey, Sherman Alexie, Terri Tempest Williams, Steven Prothero, Chris Hughes, Philip Glass... amazing thinkers and artists of our times. Hindsight, right, not helpful, but perspective, yes, helpful.

 

And I'm glad you're able to swing a quality education and minimize the debt, though I'm sorry this isn't working out how you'd have wanted. I totally agree about starting out with so much debt, how hard that would be.

 

Well, you won't see me posting on any investment advice threads on here, that's for sure! Otherwise, I agree with you about life choices. Since our kids were born we opted for me to stay home (and later, work part time) so that we could devote more than the usual time for family time. When our investments took a hit, we seriously thought about having me go full time - and it's still a consideration due to hubby's job being super slow. He's not unemployed, he's self-employed, and work that used to be lined up months in advance is now just slow, slow, slow (for about 18 months and counting). It's that way among all the folks in his line of work (Civil Engineering). Some have had to quit. We're hanging on.

 

However, we talked about it and our first choice is for me to go full time once the youngest goes to college (4 years). We've decided we can work till we're 80 if need be (shouldn't, but still...). We can't ever get these last few years as a family back. And, if the economy comes back before we cash out at a severe loss, that's a plus. If not, well, investing is gambling, so losses are a fact of life. Win some, lose some. At least we still have our house and food. We can't complain.

[Beth in OH]

I know, I'm terrified! I'm especially terrified as the mother of an *average* student and as a low-income family who hasn't been able to provide the opportunities I would have loved for my kids to have. :( In some ways, being poor can be a real hindrance to a good education and getting aid.

 

I am a trustee of a state university with an access mission. We strive to be the place where students who haven't always had the "best of the best" preparation and resources can blossom. Many of our students are first generation college students. 60-70% of our students have $0 Estimated Family Contribution on the FAFSA (in other words their family financial situation is such that FAFSA deems the family unable to pay anything toward the college education). A student with a 22-24 ACT score will probably qualify for very good merit aid.

 

There are colleges out there with this same mission, and some such as DePaul Univ. in Chicago, are private, . Make sure you have a complete list of all of your state supported colleges and universities--it's not unusual for a state to have a couple of lesser known schools that you may not be aware of. Ohio has 16 state schools--I used to know of only about 10. These schools might not promote their access mission, so look for markers such as lower ACT/SAT midranges and higher percentage of students receiving need based aid. Then, start asking questions--what is the school's year 1 to year 2 retention rate, and what strategies does the school employ to increase the rate? You want to see a school that recognizes that this population might need some extra assistance early on to ensure classroom success. While a lot of school "hand holding" might not seem very collegiate to some, it is important in the access schools, especially during the freshman year.

 

Now, I'm sure some of you reading this post might equate lower SAT/ACT scores with a 2nd rate education. Not necessarily so. Again, you have to dig a bit to see if the school recognizes and responds to its special mission. If so, it is probably seeking to provide a "value added" education so that its graduates are competitive with those of the schools who have a better prepared incoming class. This type of college is a very empowering place and is so good for society. I have loved my experience on this board, and we turn out some AMAZING graduates--who entered college with ACT scores of 15-18.

 

Beth

[Luckymama]

:) You need to take SATs where you live. MA and a few other states demand much higher scores to qualify for SAT Merit Scholarships.

 

 

Actually these are scholarships from the scores on the PSAT, taken in the junior year. The PSAT is actually titled PSAT/NMSQT, or Preliminary SAT/National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test. Each state has its own "cut off" for moving ahead to the National Merit Scholarship semifinalist level. The number can and may fluctuate from year-to-year. You can get a good idea of your state's number on the College Confidential forums----there is usually a thread for each year.

 

PSAT scores can be roughly translated to SAT scores by adding a 0 to the end of the score. So if your kid scores a 60 on the math section, that would be approximately equivalent to a 600 on the SAT math section.

 

There is a second cutoff for the Commended Level, which is usually around 200ish.

[Kareni]

I also have no idea where we will live when the boys are college age. When we lived in Los Angeles, the options for college locally were limitless. DH and I both went to grad school in SoCal.

 

 

Sadly, options in California are less than they used to be. Tuition at the UC system rose, I believe, 30% this past year.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[LibraryLover]

Yes, you are correct. PSAT.

 

Actually these are scholarships from the scores on the PSAT, taken in the junior year. The PSAT is actually titled PSAT/NMSQT, or Preliminary SAT/National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test. Each state has its own "cut off" for moving ahead to the National Merit Scholarship semifinalist level. The number can and may fluctuate from year-to-year. You can get a good idea of your state's number on the College Confidential forums----there is usually a thread for each year.

 

PSAT scores can be roughly translated to SAT scores by adding a 0 to the end of the score. So if your kid scores a 60 on the math section, that would be approximately equivalent to a 600 on the SAT math section.

 

There is a second cutoff for the Commended Level, which is usually around 200ish.