Ottakee Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 We had to put our old lab mix to sleep as she couldn't even walk anymore. Yesterday we looked at the local animal shelter to see what they had there. There was one nice looking yellow lab that was turned in because he was "destructive inside" yet when I asked about him being an outdoor dog, I was told that the dogs all need to be INDOOR dogs--no being left outside alone, no sleeping outside, etc. Well, we have 5 1/2 acres, a barn, 3 horses, 11 chickens, and 2 barn cats. We are looking for a dog that can be outside with us in the barn, maybe tag along while we go riding, go for walks with my husband, etc. Issue is, I really don't want a full time in the house dog. I don't mind if they come in some or even sleep inside in the winter, etc. but I won't lie to the shelter to say the dog would never be left outside in the large run with insulated dog house, or in the barn, etc. Is this common? They would rather keep the dog in a tiny cage at the shelter or put them down rather than let them roam a farm and sleep in the barn (with the coop inside the barn). Guess we will look elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooooom Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 don't forget that these people work with animals, and are there to represent the interests of the animals, NOT the people that might like to adopt them. I have worked in rescue for many years, animal rescue people want the animals they've rescued to have indoor homes. However, if you look at specific, very hardy breeds, the kinds that prefer to be outdoors, you are likely to be able to reach a compromise. Dogs like Great Pyrs, huskies, malamutes... I would look for a breed specific rescue for dogs of this nature. I commend you for being honest, someone who works with a breed specific rescue will most likely be able to match you up with a dog who would be happy to live in the situation you can provide - you wouldn't want a dog that wouldn't be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I've heard about this more and more lately, and I'll admit I just plain don't understand. I feel so *sorry* for dogs that were bred as herding types and such stuck in doors all of the time! I can't imagine how my dear, dear collie from when I was a child would have survived spending even a portion of her days inside. She *needed* to be on a big plot of land where she could run all the time -- not just walk with us a couple of times a day. I don't have a dog and don't care to, but if we had lots of land outside of town, I can certainly imagine wanting a mostly-outdoor dog. It's cooping one up in my house full time that seems cruel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomLovesClassics Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I hate to say it but some are picky. My son was refused, because he was not married. He had to go to another shelter to adopt his dog, and he has her inside. I would try other shelters in the area. I attempted to adopt a kitten in another state, but was told I would have to come in person. Some shelters will adopt out of state. Some shelters are way too picky. I find it sad, because sometimes there are good loving homes available, and those animals could be living in a loving home instead. go to petfinder.com and see if there are others in the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma23peas Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Check Craigs List or petfinder.com ...you're very likely to find a family pet that would love the outdoors but whose parents are either to busy to care for it or are moving to an area they can't have dogs. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinMominTX Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 It's ridiculous. Do not ever tell them you are there to get a barn cat. They'll freak...even though the cat will be fat and happy in its barn home. I've been turned off by the inconsistencies of rescue/shelter organizations. They have 100's of dogs that need homes, but they've become so picky that I really don't think they are doing the waiting dogs any favors. I have two Australian Shepherds. They would go insane (as would I) if they were confined to the house. They were never meant to be inside dogs. They come in periodically, but they much prefer being outdoors. Anthropomorphism - the attributing of human characteristics to animals - is a real problem among many rescue organizations. Just because we liket to be indoors doesn't mean that all dogs do as well! Try craigslist.org or another site like that. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I volunteer three days a week at an animal shelter, and we have eight animals and three fosters from the shelter. I think what shelters are trying to avoid is the situation that many of their dogs came from: being tied to a stake outside and left there, with no interaction with their people and little shelter from the elements. It sounds like you want an animal companion who occasionally stays outside. I see no problem with that, but remember that animals who live outside generally have shorter lives than indoor animals. Did the shelter actually say that you can't adopt? Did you explain the situation to them? Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Yes, I've run into the same thing. You even have to sign a paper stating that you will not ever keep them outside. Also, if ever you should have to get rid of the animal you will return it to them; not find a home for it yourself. I understand their reasoning, but it is getting to be ridiculous and out of hand. I no longer support them in any manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amy g. Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 When we adopted our lab 10 years ago, the center said that he had to be an indoor only dog. Dh was so distressed about not being able to get him. I said, "I don't mind lying for you." So I went back in, and signed all of the papers promising to keep him indoors. What a happy life he has had playing in the creek, taking trips in the truck to the feedstore, and having lots of kids to play with him. The bad part is that I never wanted to be treated that way again, so the last 5 dogs I've bought have all been from breeders. Some people don't realize that they are their own worst enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) It's ridiculous. I've been turned off by the inconsistencies of rescue/shelter organizations. They have 100's of dogs that need homes, but they've become so picky that I really don't think they are doing the waiting dogs any favors. I have two Australian Shepherds. They would go insane (as would I) if they were confined to the house. They were never meant to be inside dogs. They come in periodically, but they much prefer being outdoors. Anthropomorphism - the attributing of human characteristics to animals - is a real problem among many rescue organizations. Just because we liket to be indoors doesn't mean that all dogs do as well! Try craigslist.org or another site like that. Good luck! Yeah, stupid. I have 5 outdoor dogs and they are happy as clams. They certainly have a better life then living in a kennel in an INDOOR shelter! Another shocking fact: Dogs are not people. Think about this....the ONLY acceptable place for a DOG to live is inside a PEOPLE house?? A house that most people, if you consider the entire world, aren't even fortunate enough to have???? Nuts. Anyway, you can find a great pyrenese or Anatolian shepherd mix if you search livestock guardian dogs. They are the BEST farm dogs EVER. We have three and we love them! Gentle with people, love being guard of the barnyard, don't chase chickens, come along on horse rides, run along with the 4-wheeler....they are awesome. You can usually get a puppy for $50 from a goat or sheep breeder. We like the Anatolian influence, it makes for a less heavy dog and mine (3/4 anatolian, 1/4 pyr) are short haired but very resistant to ticks and fleas. You can see lots of pictures of our dogs as adults and adorable puppies here. FYI: They are not white. http://harmonpfarms.blogspot.com/search/label/Pups Good luck finding your new farm dog. Sorry about your last one. Oh, ps. Come to Arkansas: They let anyone adopt anything! ( not saying that's good either, but it's true.) Edited August 23, 2009 by katemary63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsrevmeg Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I think it is pretty common. We had some dogs dumped off in our yard, and called a no-kill shelter to take them in. They told us no because they already had a lot of big dogs that nobody wanted to keep indoors. I think it cruel to keep an active, big dog inside all the time. The dogs that came into our yard liked to run and swim in the lake. They would have been miserable cooped up inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita in NC Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Was this the SPCA? They are extremely picky. They wouldn't let me adopt a dog because they did a vet check and there were no evidence of shots because I do my own shots on the dogs (except for rabies). So I went to the local county run pound who will adopt to anyone that has the $100 adoption fee. I adopted my dog from there. 4 years later and he is a happy dog, sleeps on the bed every night and I still do my own shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheilaZ Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 All of our pets, 2 dogs and 2 cats, have been thrown away animals. We either found them on the street or they were found by other people. We have two large dogs who spend all day outside. They have a huge yard to play in and a shelter with its own heat and A/C. We must be good owners because are dogs are healthy and active even though they are 15 years old. Our vet is shocked because large breeds don't normally live that long. He's been preparing us for the dogs' demise for the last 5 years. But we're back every year for their check up. Even though we take good care of our pets, we can't adopt from out local humane society because we won't agree to keep the pets as strictly indoor animals. So when our old dogs finally pass, we hope a new puppy will wander into our lives like the old ones did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amy g. Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Well, I do keep my tiny Yorkie inside. She would make a perfect tidbit for a passing hawk. I only do it because we are home all day. I think about how many families are at work and school all day long. I can not imagine a dog being happy to be indoors only in that situation. It would be much better to live outside with a canine friend, and cars to bark at, and squirrels to chase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your pet :grouphug:. I know that that looking for a "replacement" is tough anyway. Then to get this?! When we adopted years ago the requirement was for a fenced yard. Has it really been changed to strictly indoors? What about the breeds that just don't do well indoors? My guess is that this is just coming from a minority of shelters.....please tell me I'm right. I didn't read all of the replies, but I agree with those who stated that if this is what your local place told you, that I would be looking elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Is this common? They would rather keep the dog in a tiny cage at the shelter or put them down rather than let them roam a farm and sleep in the barn (with the coop inside the barn). These poor people don't know you from Adam. Still, I just hated looking for a dog. 1) It will be only YOUR dog? If your husband can't be bothered to come down and practically have to put a coat over his lap he's so excited about getting a dog, then NO. 2) You WORK all day. Fat chance. 3) You SAY you'll have it inside or with you all the time, but you don't have a fenced yard. You have to fence your yard. (I ended up buying fencing and paying a contractor, who was in on the deal, showing them the receipts, and then canceling and returning the moment I had the dog. We had many good years together, and yes, she was either inside with me, or I was outside with her. Never lost.) Can you tell how angry this made me? As I was leaving shelter #1, a woman left with me. She was a spry woman in walkers. She said they turned her down because she was 60. 60! She looked like she was ready to walk 10 miles, but they had an age limit so people wouldn't abandon the dog 10 years later when they went into a nursing home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Just curious. If you are a good home and you don't have to be dishonest (just not completely telling it all), how do they know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amy g. Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 to adopt our lab, I had to sign papers promising he would be an indoor only dog. I only did it because Dh was already in love with him. I'm not willing to do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I don't think animal shelters realize how many more dogs/cats would be adopted if they were not so narrow minded. Our kitty came from our vet who takes in stray animals. She had been left at his backdoor one Saturday morning. When I adopted from a shelter I had to have 2 references (who had to be home at the same time so they could call and speak with them), a vet reference plus a huge adoption fee. Plus both my kids had to be in attendance. I went through their hoops only to discover they had lied about the age of the cat (they said it was 1, when we had to return it they said it was 4/5). I adopted from a "rescue group" who happily gave me a dog with behaviour issues (that they were well aware of, but just happily glossed over). When I tried to give the dog back (per their rules) they refused. I feel horrible for all the pets in shelters but I have been burned too many times. My next dog will come from a respectable breeder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Just curious. If you are a good home and you don't have to be dishonest (just not completely telling it all), how do they know? They specifically ask you, and you are required to sign papers stating that the animal will not be outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthwestMom Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 We are planning to adopt a new dog in September. Our old family dog died last winter, and we wanted to finish summer travel so we would not have to leave a new dog at a kennel. I already know that several local organizations will not give us an animal because of our the age of our youngest child - 4yo. The face that she's grown up with a dog doesn't matter; I'll be home all day, we have a 6 ft privacy fence, we plan to do obedience school, we want an older dog, medium size (no tiny breeds that might get hurt, or puppies) - that doesn't matter. The 4yo kills the deal. It's so aggravating. I'm hesitant to just get a dog from animal control, because I'd like to know how the dog will do with cats and kids, and many rescues do behavior tests to determine this. We are going to keep looking - I'm sure there's some place that will finally give us the dog we're looking for. And there's Craigslist - there's dozens of dogs listed there everyday. On a positive note, I did see a sheepdog listed on Petfinder and they were asking for a farm with sheep on it for the dog. I thought that was pretty cool - this dog knew her job and wanted to keep working. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthwestMom Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I am especially grumpy about one organization for whom our youth group at our former church did a petfood drive. The kids worked hard at gathering and delivering donations, and later we found out that none of their families would have actually been able to adopt a pet there, due to the ages of the kids. They're old enough to donate pet food, but not old enough live in the same house as a dog or cat?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 If it's supported by your city or county you might try making a big fuss. I keep hearing about how some tax-supported shelters in our area may have to close because of the economic mess. If the dog you're interested in is at a shelter that you support with taxes I'd start contacting the top dog at the shelter, the mayor, the media, etc. Would your veterinarian write a letter on your behalf? Even if it's a privately run shelter you could still keep after them. Maybe you could convince someone to visit your home and see where the dog would be living. Maybe your persistence will pay off. I can't believe that the dog would turn you down. You've got a dog's wonderland set up for him and it makes me so mad that they're turning you down because you won't keep a high-energy dog inside the house. What do they think...he'd be better off spending his days crated inside a home in the city and just getting out for the occasional walk and maybe a weekend trip to the dog park? There's a doggie daycare near us and people pay them to take their dogs for day trips to a rural property just to run around! I hope you win because then the dog wins, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Poor doggies. :( Dogs aren't people and they aren't meant to be stuck in people houses all day. Heck, even my KIDS aren't meant to be stuck inside all day, either! We want to adopt a dog as soon as our back yard fence is repaired, but there's NO WAY I'd force the poor dog to be cooped up all day inside except for a walk or potty break. Blech. That's just unkind to the dog. Oh, and we have a cat who spends most of her time outside. Horrors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 We have been denied even though we did want an indoor dog, just because our huge yard is not fenced. When we told them we had a dog line, it didn't matter. I've owned a dog my entire life, never had a fenced yard, and SOMEHOW they all were happy and healthy! I read a book a few years ago about shelters. It was mainly about the no-kill issue, but it clearly showed that many shelters consider the general public to be the cause of the problem, and that is clear in their attitude. I wonder if that is where this is coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I've had shelters lie to me too. A cat I got a long time ago, they told me she was young, and then the vet said she couldn't have been less than 7 or 8. And the dog we have now, they told us he was older than he was. He couldn't have been more than 6 months old when we got him. That also happened to my mom - she thought she was getting a medium sized dog. It turned out the dog was not done growing and she ended up with a large dog. So, it's OK for the shelters to lie to us, but we have to pass a detailed screening to give a dog a home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I think people are misunderstanding what "indoor pet" means. This does not mean a dog who never goes outside. Of course dogs go outside, spend time in the yard, go in the car with people, etc. What "indoor" generally means is that the animal is fed inside and sleeps inside and is brought inside during inclement weather. My dog is an indoor dog who spends plenty of time playing in the yard, going for walks, riding in the car. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Until you have been the person on the other side of the organization, the person who holds the dogs while they get the 'pink liquid', the person who holds & cuddles them and tells them they're good dogs while they're being put to sleep - until you do that hundreds and hundreds of times, you won't get it. And I know you'll say now - well, if they're so over crowded, why don't they just adopt the dog out to anyone who asks? And the answer is BIG PICTURE. It's about these dogs and it's also about the state of animal welfare as a whole. Criteria are put in because we see the dogs come IN. From yards, chained in fences, living in a cramped dog house all their lives. Most pets have over 5 owners in their lives - because people keep handing them off to friends, family, through craigslist & dumped in shelters or picked up as strays or seized in cruelty investigations. Some shelters have dogs that come & in out several times - one of the strategies is to implement stricter adoption criteria so that the home is the 'forever home'. There ARE people who can have outside dogs & do a good job of caring for them. Unfortunately, they are RARE. Most outside dogs are neglected, don't see vets, don't get the training they need. Until we get that big picutre cultural shift changed, the animal advocates are doing their best for each and every dog that comes into the system. It is a very awful, heartbreaking thing. People think they can walk in & get anything they want. They don't understand the home visits, the checking of references, the application forms. And they don't understand they may be denied. I know it's hard & I know rescues & shelters are often stumbling about & I know mistakes are made. But it is one piece of changing the perception, the value, the commitment to animals in our culture. YOU would provide great care. Most people won't. I can't tell you how sad this work is ----- & I'm on the periphery of it, nowhere near the center of the --itstorm where all the ugliness happens. When we hear outdoor home, THIS is what we think of: photos: http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com/pictures.html video of Judith & her happy ending http://www.animaladvocates.com/videos/judith/?showvideo=true&video=1&format=flash What a difference a day makes - Eddy's story: http://www.animaladvocates.com/videos/happy-endings/?showvideo=true&video=2&format=windowsmedia These are short clips. I hope everyone will watch them & for just a moment try to find the empathy which makes some humane societies & rescues act the way they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 We looked at shelters and rescues last year. Because Tazzie and Princess are under 7, SPCA said nope. Rescues wanted home inspection, dog visits with return to foster parents and such before we *might* get approved. We did get a lab from an out of town shelter last year. It nearly took Princess' face off when she was petting it, and was returned. That was the end of shelter/rescues for us. We bought our current dog a few weeks ago from a farm, for about the same as a rescue would have cost, without the hoop jumping. We know her history, she's only 3 mths old, and met her parents, etc. Never again will we even attempt the shelter/rescue route. Especially when we have young children...but since I'm basically one armed now, a dog with a chancy history, with who knows what behavioural issues just isn't something I want or feel capable of dealing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) n Edited August 23, 2009 by Lolly duplicate post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Until you have been the person on the other side of the organization, the person who holds the dogs while they get the 'pink liquid', the person who holds & cuddles them and tells them they're good dogs while they're being put to sleep - until you do that hundreds and hundreds of times, you won't get it. And I know you'll say now - well, if they're so over crowded, why don't they just adopt the dog out to anyone who asks? And the answer is BIG PICTURE. It's about these dogs and it's also about the state of animal welfare as a whole. Criteria are put in because we see the dogs come IN. From yards, chained in fences, living in a cramped dog house all their lives. Most pets have over 5 owners in their lives - because people keep handing them off to friends, family, through craigslist & dumped in shelters or picked up as strays or seized in cruelty investigations. Some shelters have dogs that come & in out several times - one of the strategies is to implement stricter adoption criteria so that the home is the 'forever home'. There ARE people who can have outside dogs & do a good job of caring for them. Unfortunately, they are RARE. Most outside dogs are neglected, don't see vets, don't get the training they need. Until we get that big picutre cultural shift changed, the animal advocates are doing their best for each and every dog that comes into the system. It is a very awful, heartbreaking thing. People think they can walk in & get anything they want. They don't understand the home visits, the checking of references, the application forms. And they don't understand they may be denied. I know it's hard & I know rescues & shelters are often stumbling about & I know mistakes are made. But it is one piece of changing the perception, the value, the commitment to animals in our culture. YOU would provide great care. Most people won't. I can't tell you how sad this work is ----- & I'm on the periphery of it, nowhere near the center of the --itstorm where all the ugliness happens. When we hear outdoor home, THIS is what we think of: photos: http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com/pictures.html video of Judith & her happy ending http://www.animaladvocates.com/videos/judith/?showvideo=true&video=1&format=flash What a difference a day makes - Eddy's story: http://www.animaladvocates.com/videos/happy-endings/?showvideo=true&video=2&format=windowsmedia These are short clips. I hope everyone will watch them & for just a moment try to find the empathy which makes some humane societies & rescues act the way they do. Here is the problem. Do you have proof of this? I do believe that most outdoor dogs who come to the shelters fit this description. But, not most outdoor dogs. The outdoor dogs who do not do not go to the shelter. Because of the types of situations the animal shelter workers come in contact with, they feel that this is the case. How on earth could something like that be proven? You would have to have a survey to check on a large number of outdoor dogs at random. This doesn't happen. If it were to happen, people with outdoor dogs certainly wouldn't be marking themselves down as being neglectful. There simply is not a way to prove this statement. I also have trouble with the pets having an average of 5 owners. Granted, I am going on personal experience here, but I have known a very large number of people who have pets. Very, very few of them ever get rid of a pet. Honestly, I have seen this as an issue on this board much more often than in real life. In fact other than here, the only times I have seen an animal be passed on have been due to a baby's birth (baby had allergy), the death of an elderly owner, and a lost animal that someone took in (I am assuming someone owned it before). Once have I known someone who got rid of a dog who turned out to be more than they could handle. They found an owner for that dog themselves. One where they could go and visit the dog. The experiences of the workers at shelters have colored their perception of what type of owner the average person will be. Because of their jobs, they tend to see the worst and expect the worst. As you can see, this perception can keep good people from adopting from shelters. Shelters are shooting themselves in the foot by putting these requirements on adoptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 No, at this shelter you must sign a paper that the dog will not sleep outside, will be in the house most of the time--except when he is out and about with his people, etc. There is NO way you can get a barn cat from them either as that is cruel to have a cat sleeping in a hay loft---even if they have shelter, food, water, and a liter box in addition to the fun of catching mice, sitting on the horses stall doors, following the kids around, and even going for "walks" with us. Our last dog slept in an insulated dog house in the garage where she had food, a heated water dish, nice doggie bed, etc. She was free to roam with the kids, hang out in the horse barn, etc. We would bring her in when the weather was really bad but most often she would be in for 15-20 minutes and ask to be let outside again. She wanted to be outside. I do have an ad on Craig's list and put the word out with friends. I think that being free to roam around when we are outside and having the freedom of a large fenced in yard and dog run when we are gone (you aren't supposed to leave them outside alone when you leave) is better than being in a crate 6-8 hours at a stretch just so they can be inside. I know that some breeds can't tolerate the cold, heat, etc. of living outside but other breeds really thrive on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I think people are misunderstanding what "indoor pet" means. This does not mean a dog who never goes outside. Of course dogs go outside, spend time in the yard, go in the car with people, etc. What "indoor" generally means is that the animal is fed inside and sleeps inside and is brought inside during inclement weather. My dog is an indoor dog who spends plenty of time playing in the yard, going for walks, riding in the car. Tara No, I think people know what an indoor pet is. Outdoor pets can be well cared for, trained, and socialized; especially on farms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 So, it's OK for the shelters to lie to us People who adopt from shelters have to understand that there are no guarantees. People who work for shelters *rarely* know the animal's history or parentage. Trying to look at a mixed-breed dog and guess what that dog's heritage may be or how large it will grow is just that, a guess. I have children adopted from orphanages whose ages are guesstimates. The same thing is true in shelters. Mistakes are made. To assume that the shelter has lied to you because you didn't get what you expected says less about the shelter and more about your attitude toward the shelter. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Outdoor pets can be well cared for, trained, and socialized; especially on farms. I completely agree, and I have no problem with dogs being outdoor dogs when they are properly cared for. But coming from someone who is in a shelter many hours a week and sees all the horror stories, I also understand and support a shelter's decision to decline to place dogs with families who say they will be outdoor dogs. People had mentioned dogs going out with their families as examples of ways that dogs were no longer "indoor dogs," which is what prompted my post. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I just went through all of this too. I sympathize. Really. Fax the vet records, you took a test, didn't give the shot. Hmmm. (test was negative, why would I give the shot?) You admit to feeding a neighbors cat who isn't spayed or an indoor cat? *DENIED* (Not to mention a home visit, a family visit and an adoption fee of over 400.) Which was best for both of us, really, because a week later someone who knew I was looking for a lab called me up. They were moving and couldn't take her with them. She's chocolate, and thriving with my Dobie (whom the shelter didn't like). She hasn't been trained a lick, so it's hard right now, but she's not stupid and coming along fine. Too bad for the 8 YO sweet lab I was willing to adopt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 People who adopt from shelters have to understand that there are no guarantees. People who work for shelters *rarely* know the animal's history or parentage. Trying to look at a mixed-breed dog and guess what that dog's heritage may be or how large it will grow is just that, a guess. I have children adopted from orphanages whose ages are guesstimates. The same thing is true in shelters. Mistakes are made. To assume that the shelter has lied to you because you didn't get what you expected says less about the shelter and more about your attitude toward the shelter. Tara I don't expect some volunteer to know the difference, but our current dog was seen at a vet school to be neutered and have his shots before we adopted him. Apparently no one there could look at his teeth and see that he wasn't fully grown. I don't care because I like big dogs and was fine with the 100 lb full grown version, I'm just giving this as an illustration. I actually do have a bad attitude toward shelters in general and it's based on the information in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Redemption-Myth-Overpopulation-Revolution-America/dp/0979074304/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251049948&sr=1-1 The author makes the point that shelters are, as a PP said, shooting themselves in the foot by considering the general public to be irresponsible pet owners, and their solution is to kill animals, instead of using various no-kill solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginevra Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 We had to put our old lab mix to sleep as she couldn't even walk anymore. Yesterday we looked at the local animal shelter to see what they had there. There was one nice looking yellow lab that was turned in because he was "destructive inside" yet when I asked about him being an outdoor dog, I was told that the dogs all need to be INDOOR dogs--no being left outside alone, no sleeping outside, etc. Well, we have 5 1/2 acres, a barn, 3 horses, 11 chickens, and 2 barn cats. We are looking for a dog that can be outside with us in the barn, maybe tag along while we go riding, go for walks with my husband, etc. Issue is, I really don't want a full time in the house dog. I don't mind if they come in some or even sleep inside in the winter, etc. but I won't lie to the shelter to say the dog would never be left outside in the large run with insulated dog house, or in the barn, etc. Is this common? They would rather keep the dog in a tiny cage at the shelter or put them down rather than let them roam a farm and sleep in the barn (with the coop inside the barn). Guess we will look elsewhere. It's common. I think it is dumb. My animals are mostly outside. They sleep in the garage at night and I bring them in (to the garage) for inclement weather. I cannot understand how that somehow equates to a sub-par life for a pet. I looked for a while on a German Shepherd rescue site; this is the breed I most like (and I have one). There were two fine dogs that had been mostly outside dogs living on a farm, yet the rescue specifically requires that they now become indoor dogs by the rescuing family. This makes no sense to me whatsoever! It's sad because there are dogs and cats I would readily adopt that are not easily adopted otherwise, for example, I have no particular use for a kitten and would readily adopt a grown cat. But I guess they would rather have grown cats shut up in a cage, waiting for an adoption that never comes, rather than have a home in my garage and surrounding ten acres. :confused: I had a friend who constantly chided me for leaving my dog outside all day every day. She had a terrier that she kept in a cage for ten hours a day while she was at work. :confused: That was a real non sequitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amy g. Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I feel sorry for the dogs at the shelter. I need another Great Pyrenees. I know that there are rescue dogs that would do great on our acreage with goats and birds to protect and another Pyrenees friend, but we do not have perimeter fencing, so I know better than to look for a rescue dog. I'm getting a puppy from a breeder. I told him that I don't have perimeter fencing, but my 3 year old Pyr knows exactly where the boarders of our land are, and she never crosses them. He said that she should teach the puppy to do the same. I understand that shelter workers just want the best home possible for each and every dog. I just feel like they do the animals a disservice by being so shortsighted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I think people are misunderstanding what "indoor pet" means. This does not mean a dog who never goes outside. Of course dogs go outside, spend time in the yard, go in the car with people, etc. What "indoor" generally means is that the animal is fed inside and sleeps inside and is brought inside during inclement weather. My dog is an indoor dog who spends plenty of time playing in the yard, going for walks, riding in the car. Tara No. At our shelter indoor pet means they never go outside. This is defined in the paperwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I think this discussion is fundamentally about the conflict of what's best for the individual vs. what's best for the community. There's a lot of 'me, me, me. I want it now. I don't want hoops. This is what's best for me.' And it has to be balanced against what is best for the community (animal & people) as a whole. And it's always tough to balance these rights & yeah, things go wrong. Shelter reform is a huge issue right now - there are some shelters which are killing pretty much all the animals coming in. They're not 'sheltering'; they're killing. They make it pretty bleeding impossible for anyone to adopt - they don't put the animals on www.petfinder.org ; they hold them for only a day or two; they're not open to the public in evenings or on weekends...... I highly recommend the book Redemption by Nathan Winograd if you're interesed in shelter reform & improving the lives of homeless animals, about 4-5 million of which are killed each year. Check out his website: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ (BTW, when you buy from a reputable breeder, it's not instant either - most reputable breeders have wait lists & they will check you out as well to make sure their pup is going to the best possible home. Getting an animal should not be like buying a pair of shoes....... ) And anyone who wants a barn cat only has to contact a cat rescue & ask about ferals. While tame housecats will generally not be adopted out to outside situations, there are usually groups doing TNR - trap/neuter/release on feral cat populations & there's often a demand for relocating ferals. One of the local cat rescues here has been putting out an ongoing plea for barns etc to take ferals which are being relocated from a suburb. There are simply not enough barns and farms willing to take them here...... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 No. At our shelter indoor pet means they never go outside. This is defined in the paperwork. That is true for cats. Cats here can go outside only in a fully enclosed outdoor cat recreation area like this: http://images.google.com/images?rls=com.microsoft:en-ca:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&q=cat+enclosure&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=mYeRSrNsi8ixA6_AmAw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=7 or on leash. My cat is leash trained. It could also be true for bunnies as there's some controversy in that community about indoor v. outdoor hutches & the house bunny society is advocating for 'free range' indoor bunnies. I have never heard of anything like that for dogs. Indoor dogs are like these ones on this blog by a local border collie rescuer who lives in an apartment with 3 (used to be 4) of her own border collies, cats & various fosters: http://threewoofs.blogspot.com/ These dogs have earned titles in agility, they have tried sheepherding & they spend their lives in various dog parks & beaches. They're indoor dogs living one heck of an 'indoor' life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 They specifically ask you, and you are required to sign papers stating that the animal will not be outside. Yes, you sign a contract. Many rescues will follow up & make sure the terms of the contract are being followed. How enforceable the contract is depends on whether the rescue got legal advice when writing it up & what the local laws are. I know of one recent case where a rescue pursued legal action & won & got the animal back as the terms of the contract had been violated. I'm sure there have been more cases like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I don't expect some volunteer to know the difference, but our current dog was seen at a vet school to be neutered and have his shots before we adopted him. Apparently no one there could look at his teeth and see that he wasn't fully grown. I don't care because I like big dogs and was fine with the 100 lb full grown version, I'm just giving this as an illustration. I actually do have a bad attitude toward shelters in general and it's based on the information in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Redemption-Myth-Overpopulation-Revolution-America/dp/0979074304/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251049948&sr=1-1 The author makes the point that shelters are, as a PP said, shooting themselves in the foot by considering the general public to be irresponsible pet owners, and their solution is to kill animals, instead of using various no-kill solutions. This book appears to advocate no-kill shelters. The problem with no-kill shelters is that they do not accept all animals. There is an excellent review on amazon that addresses this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammaruss Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 We wanted to adopt a german shepherd from a rescue and we were turned down because our entire 160 acres was not fenced!!! Nevermind that we own a DOG TRAINING kennel and dh has been training various breeds in protection, all breed obedience and also hunting dogs as a professional for over 25 years!! We called another rescue and they would not even come meet with us because they do not deal with people in our area code!! :confused: We plodded on determined to rescue a gs......next one turned us down because our oldest ds is visually impaired!!! grrrrrrrrrrr!! We finally found a lady that has her own private rescue that lives over 300 miles from us--we met her halfway and were able to adopt our loyal and loving Zoey! Zoey needed a new home because her family could not handle her "energy"!! Zoey is laying at my feet as I type this and is a spoiled furry family companion that has provided us with a ton of laughs, love, kisses and who is our youngest ds phy ed/recess companion and together they wear each other out!! Keep trying and good luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginevra Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I think this discussion is fundamentally about the conflict of what's best for the individual vs. what's best for the community. There's a lot of 'me, me, me. I want it now. I don't want hoops. This is what's best for me.' I completely disagree. What's best for the individuals who are speaking about this issue is also what's best for the community. If someone needs to unload their German Shepherd who has been outdoors on the farm for five years, how is it good for ANYONE involved for that dog to go to someone who promises to keep it INDOORS? The dog will not even understand the perameters of living indoors and will have to relearn the entire way of being. German Shepherds were not bred to sit on an LLBean pillow by the fireplace. How is it better for a cat that I would adopt to be euthanized than it would for the cat to live in the garage and out on my property? How is that better for "the community" OR the cat itself? In your earlier statement, you said that outdoor animals kept in proper care are rare. I do not agree. Outdoor animals who wind up in a shelter who have been kept in proper care are rare. Being outdoors is not automatically equated with not being given vet care, affection, training, etc. When I choose a pet, I pick them for life. It would take a very extraordinary change of circumstances for me to give up a pet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassiemc Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Until you have been the person on the other side of the organization, the person who holds the dogs while they get the 'pink liquid', the person who holds & cuddles them and tells them they're good dogs while they're being put to sleep - until you do that hundreds and hundreds of times, you won't get it. And I know you'll say now - well, if they're so over crowded, why don't they just adopt the dog out to anyone who asks? And the answer is BIG PICTURE. It's about these dogs and it's also about the state of animal welfare as a whole. Criteria are put in because we see the dogs come IN. From yards, chained in fences, living in a cramped dog house all their lives. Most pets have over 5 owners in their lives - because people keep handing them off to friends, family, through craigslist & dumped in shelters or picked up as strays or seized in cruelty investigations. Some shelters have dogs that come & in out several times - one of the strategies is to implement stricter adoption criteria so that the home is the 'forever home'. There ARE people who can have outside dogs & do a good job of caring for them. Unfortunately, they are RARE. Most outside dogs are neglected, don't see vets, don't get the training they need. Until we get that big picutre cultural shift changed, the animal advocates are doing their best for each and every dog that comes into the system. It is a very awful, heartbreaking thing. People think they can walk in & get anything they want. They don't understand the home visits, the checking of references, the application forms. And they don't understand they may be denied. I know it's hard & I know rescues & shelters are often stumbling about & I know mistakes are made. But it is one piece of changing the perception, the value, the commitment to animals in our culture. YOU would provide great care. Most people won't. I can't tell you how sad this work is ----- & I'm on the periphery of it, nowhere near the center of the --itstorm where all the ugliness happens. When we hear outdoor home, THIS is what we think of: photos: http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com/pictures.html video of Judith & her happy ending http://www.animaladvocates.com/videos/judith/?showvideo=true&video=1&format=flash What a difference a day makes - Eddy's story: http://www.animaladvocates.com/videos/happy-endings/?showvideo=true&video=2&format=windowsmedia These are short clips. I hope everyone will watch them & for just a moment try to find the empathy which makes some humane societies & rescues act the way they do. This post has made me cry :( I can't imagine holding a sweet dog while putting it to sleep. That takes a very special person. We have adopted 3 dogs from shelters. They were/are all inside dogs. They each get exactly what they need. I promise you that our dogs love their nice, warm, cozy beds to sleep in inside our home. We had one little dog (he died last year, after 15 years with us) and now we have 2 big dogs. I could never leave them outside 24/7. We are on vacation right now and they are with us, inside. If you don't agree with the shelters rule, then find somewhere else. Rules are rules and they are for the benefit of the animals. I will also never buy a dog from a breeder or store, not gonna happen! There are so many dogs waiting for good homes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 That is true for cats. Cats here can go outside only in a fully enclosed outdoor cat recreation area like this: http://images.google.com/images?rls=com.microsoft:en-ca:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&q=cat+enclosure&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=mYeRSrNsi8ixA6_AmAw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=7 or on leash. My cat is leash trained. It could also be true for bunnies as there's some controversy in that community about indoor v. outdoor hutches & the house bunny society is advocating for 'free range' indoor bunnies. I have never heard of anything like that for dogs. Indoor dogs are like these ones on this blog by a local border collie rescuer who lives in an apartment with 3 (used to be 4) of her own border collies, cats & various fosters: http://threewoofs.blogspot.com/ These dogs have earned titles in agility, they have tried sheepherding & they spend their lives in various dog parks & beaches. They're indoor dogs living one heck of an 'indoor' life. Every shelter I've been to has this rule for dogs as well. Indoors or on a leash/with owner when outside. They are not allowed to be left alone out of doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Does not mean that you want some feral, wild animal. Would you want an animal like that interacting with your children or even other animals? Cat bites are very dangerous - regardless of how healthy the animal is. Our barn cat (neutered and up on shots and has flea protection monthly, mind you), is one of the family. I just will not allow cats in my house. He has free reign of our whole property. He knows his boundaries and loves his family, as we do him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) Well, if you really want an outdoor dog... we got our Great Pyr from an LGD rescue group. They insisted we have a certain amount of acreage and livestock so the dog could express his nature adequately (meaning "have some real work to do). That was 12 years ago though. He's still hanging in there. If that's not what you need, I'd suggest combing the ads (newspaper, Craigslist, etc) for some pups needing homes. Forget the shelter. They have their own agenda, for which I won't fault them, but which doesn't mesh with what you need. So, instead of expending energy on arguing with them, find a dog elsewhere. Edited August 23, 2009 by Audrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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