Do you think Barack Obama should have commented?

[Surfside Academy]

I don't know if its already been mentioned in the thread but there was a black police sergeant on scence as well and he came out saying he agreed with the officer's actions 100%.

 

Obama only commented because he has a relationship with the professor, period. He should have said nothing.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I do not think President Obama is the first or last president to ever insert his foot in his mouth. In fact, I am quite certain that every human on earth has been guilty of the same.;) President Obama has already said that his words were unfortunate.

 

I also think that given our history and the many difficulties that black Americans have faced in the past that I can understand how Professor Gates may have felt that race was a factor. So it does not always upset me when the so-called "race card" is played since unfortunately racism still exists.:sad:

[abcinnc]

No, he should not have commented.

[usetoschool]

There are copies of the police report available online. Search gates police report. The officer also had his mic on and I heard on a news report that they are considering whether or not to release the audio. Gates was arrested because he continued to follow the police officer and yell at him and harrass him. And in most places that I am aware of it is illegal to resist, harrass etc. a police officer. The only one who brought race into this is Gates and it makes it hard for cases with real racism to be heard when someone acts like this.

 

And Obama's comment was not helpful or professional.

[TXMomof4]

 

I also think that given our history and the many difficulties that black Americans have faced in the past that I can understand how Professor Gates may have felt that race was a factor. So it does not always upset me when the so-called "race card" is played since unfortunately racism still exists.:sad:

 

Of course, this professor teaches "race relations" at Harvard, right? So this is the example of how to relate? Maybe he's a little hyper-sensitive because he teaches on the topic? If I LOOK for bias, I can generally find it, even if none was intended.

[A.D.]

Someone I know well who has had more than 1 experience in dealing with police officers is of the opinion that no matter what you have or have not actually done, if you are respectful to the officer, they will treat you respectfully. Every time they approach someone they are not exactly sure if that person is a suspect with a weapon or not so they initially treat everyone as though they were. So no, I don't think the president should have commented the way he did. He sets an example for all of us, especially our children.

 

 

While that may be true for the person you know, I (and other African Americans) can give accounts of where we did treat officers politely, were not guilty of any crimes, and were still profiled and treated as criminals for only one apparent reason. Want to guess the reason?

 

I do believe that President Obama went too far with his statement, as from what I can tell both parties were somewhat out of line. I do think the officer in question lost his cool and made an arrest that will not stand up in court, and he should have known better.

 

I do find it amusing when I read the comments from so many who assume their experiences in relation to racial issues as the majority is the same for those of us in the minority. I am sick of the race card as well. I just wish y'all wouldn't use it against us so much.:lurk5:

[elizabeth]

I am very pleased with our President regarding many important issues but this time he really failed . As an attorney he knows how crucial every little fact, every gesture , every word is in ascertaining the truth. It will be interesting to see the reports from police and Prof Gates to see where the variances occur. It is just truly sad all the way around. We take year long classes in learning evidence. For some odd reason Dr Gates' neighbors called the police. What does that say about all parties involved?? No effort to reach out to one another such as cleaning up after a storm together or the taking of baked goods to a neighbor who has lost a parent. Our next door neighbor happens to be African American and let me tell you we watch out for one another . We know one another's friends, family members, pastors,rabbis etc. Our connectedness and interdependence is thankfully rock solid. At minimum I know my neighbors from blocks away by face if not by name . What a sad commentary on people who apparently live in a bubble, disconnected from one another for whatever reason. If you are unfamiliar with Professor Gates' memoirs please read them as his book, Colored People is a wonderful snapshot of a time not so far in our collective past .

[5ray2006]

While that may be true for the person you know, I (and other African Americans) can give accounts of where we did treat officers politely, were not guilty of any crimes, and were still profiled and treated as criminals for only one apparent reason. Want to guess the reason?

 

I do believe that President Obama went too far with his statement, as from what I can tell both parties were somewhat out of line. I do think the officer in question lost his cool and made an arrest that will not stand up in court, and he should have known better.

 

I do find it amusing when I read the comments from so many who assume their experiences in relation to racial issues as the majority is the same for those of us in the minority. I am sick of the race card as well. I just wish y'all wouldn't use it against us so much.:lurk5:

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Debbie in OR]

Looking at it from another direction - can you imagine the uproar if someone HAD been breaking into the home and the cop just said, "Oh, ok, you're the homeowner" and left? If someone was in the home holding a gun on the homeowner and the cop just smiled and said, "Have a good day" and left? That would have been stupid. The procedures are in place for a reason whether anyone likes them or not and verbally attacking the police officer for doing his job doesn't help anyone.

 

 

This was where my train of thought went....if he had not taken this seriously and there HAD been foul play going on, he would have been skewered. The police officer did what he was supposed to and BO should have waited to comment until he had all the info.

[Julie in CA]

I do agree that both parties overreacted, but it still bothers me that Professor Gates was still arrested after showing his Harvard ID and drivers license that he was the homeowner. I don't care how belligerent he may have been!

See, now all of a sudden your opinion seems so skewed to me, that I tend to discount whatever point you had. You can't truly believe this statement, can you? :confused:

(I'm hoping I've misunderstood.)

Edited July 24, 2009 by Julie in CA

[Maria from IN]

I don't know if its already been mentioned in the thread but there was a black police sergeant on scene as well and he came out saying he agreed with the officer's actions 100%.

 

Obama only commented because he has a relationship with the professor, period. He should have said nothing.

 

Exactly. Why is no one mentioning this part? When an African American officer brings in an African American belligerent middle aged man, is it okay then?

[Karen sn]

Again, not the facts. He was NOT arrested for breaking in. You're skewing the facts to fit your own biases, just as Obama did.

 

Lisa

 

NO.......he was arrested for "disturbing the public" or whatever trumped up charge the cop came up with!

I can't even remember now.

 

BUT the cop was there because they thought he was breaking and entering.

Upon discovering it was his house, they should have left.

PERIOD.

 

Even if the man had called the cop a fascist pig, the cop should have shut up and left.

Freedom of speech and being on your own property amount to nothing in this case.

 

If the cops have to arrest this man, they obviously DO NOT have enough work to do and we should let a few go and save some money!!!!

They were there for a robbery. There was none. Now leave. PERIOD.

[Karen sn]

Actually, I think this is more of a case of home-owner idiocy. His neighbor was aware enough to call the police to let them know someone was slamming into the man's front door, trying to break in. They show up to check it out and this man acted like a fool.

 

I was not aware that acting like a fool was a criminal offense.

Wonder why the charges were dropped?

[5kidsforME]

I actually don't think President Obama should have used the word "stupidly." He's a well educated man with a vast vocabulary, and I'm certain he could have done better than that. He probably should have reserved all comment, but at the very least, he should have commented more appropriately, in my opinion. I'm a big old Obama fan, but I can admit all day long that it was an unfortunate move.

 

As far as Mr. Gates' situation, I'm still frustrated and I don't understand it.

 

The way I'm reading it, Mr. Gates provided identification showing who he was and that he was indeed in his own residence. So what if he griped to the cops and called them racists. So what if he used expletives. So what! He was in his own home, he wasn't physically violent. I just think that yelling is not a crime. I yell in my house all the time. I'm not proud of it. They aren't my post shining moments, but it certainly does happen. I think I'd be doing some additional yelling if someone tried to arrest me for it.

 

I'm not of the opinion that cops are gods to be bowed down to. If I've done nothing wrong, I wouldn't appreciate being harassed. Most African Americans, especially the men, already know that giving a police officer any sort of resistance is akin to taking your life into your own hands, but I guess Mr. Gates felt like bucking the status quo that day. It seem he is paying dearly for it.

 

I actually do think there was racial motivation behind it, but that's just my opinion. I'm perfectly fine with everyone else thinking there was no racial motivation. I just disagree.

 

So its ok for someone to cry racism as long is they are in their own home?? It's ok to damage the reputation of the cops that have come to defend your home??

[jacqui in mo]

Actually I think this is a case of racism, reverse racism.This is a black guy going off on a guy just because he's a white cop. I doubt that he would have done the same with a black policeman. Certainly not a case of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[zaichiki]

So what if he was belligerent and making comments regarding the officer's "mamma" (Mr. Gates did deny that, but I certainly wasn't there)? Is that really an arrestable offense? Really? Everytime someone says something offensive and/or ugly to you, are your going to have them arrested? I think a previous poster had it right on when she stated that the cop was power tripping.

 

You don't verbally attack a police officer who is following protocol. You don't verbally attack a police officer period. You can get arrested for that. You don't verbally attack a judge, either. They can hold you in contempt of court.

 

Heck. I guess you CAN verbally attack them, but you should be ready for the consequences.

[Osmosis Mom]

Exactly. Why is no one mentioning this part? When an African American officer brings in an African American belligerent middle aged man, is it okay then?

 

This has been mentioned several times in the news.

 

What I am wondering is why the neighbour did not recognise Gates. He was with a pal, "breaking" into the house from the front porch....

[Michelle in MO]

FWIW, a black police officer who was at the Gates home when Sgt. Crowley asked for his ID has said publicly that he supported Crowley's actions "100 percent", according to this Chicago Tribune article.

[Osmosis Mom]

You don't verbally attack a police officer who is following protocol. You don't verbally attack a police officer period. You can get arrested for that. You don't verbally attack a judge, either. They can hold you in contempt of court.

 

Heck. I guess you CAN verbally attack them, but you should be ready for the consequences.

 

Exactly. I totally agree with this. The reality is that whether it is rightful or not, police tend to arrest people who insult or provoke them.

[Soph the vet]

Given Obama admitted he didn't know all the facts, he most definitely should have kept his mouth shut.

But it doesn't work with the healthcare bill so why should we expect him to keep his mouth shut on this?:lol:

Sorry, I just could not resist the temptation. Slapping own wrist so don't bother!

[LibraryLover]

Perhaps not. I was surprised he did.

 

However, I do like how he is head-on confronting this difficult issue, even if it's a bumpy road. Manny countries have a lot of work to do about confronting racism/class-ism/tribalism. I am not ashamed that Americans have put these difficult isses front and center. Let's deal with it. It's better than pretending race/cultural/etc relationship issues do not exist.

 

I hope this contributes to our positive growth as a great and diverse nation.

[5kidsforME]

Perhaps not. I was surprised he did.

 

However, I do like how he is confronting this difficult issue. Personally, too many countries have a lot of work to do about confronting racism/class-ism/tribalism. I am not ashamed that Americans have put these difficult isses front and center. Let's deal with it. It's better than pretending race/cultural/etc relationship issues do not exist.

 

I hope this contributes to our positive growth as a great and diverse nation.

 

When there is no racism involved I think it does the opposite.

[LibraryLover]

When there is no racism involved I think it does the opposite.

 

 

Rasicm is involved. Whether history or personal experience was responsible for what happened here, we need to deal with it. It happened, and race was involved. Let's talk about it. Confronting these issues honestly will make us a stronger nation.

Edited July 25, 2009 by LibraryLover

[5kidsforME]

Rasicm is involved. Whether history or personal experience was responsible for what happened here, we need to deal with it. It happened, and race was involed. Let's talk about it.

 

The thing is if racism is invloved on the side of Gates (which IMO that is whwre the racism is) Obama getting involved was unfortunate, because he is on the side of racism.

[LibraryLover]

The thing is if racism is invloved on the side of Gates (which IMO that is whwre the racism is) Obama getting involved was unfortunate, because he is on the side of racism.

 

 

Then lets confront it and deal with it. A national debate is not going to hurt. Keeping it all in the closet and pretending this doesn't exist weakens and divides us. Nothing good is gained without hard work and some pain (birth comes to mind). Let's do it.

[KidsHappen]

I have no comment on what President Obama said but I do have to say that if police officers showed up and asked me to step outside I would certainly question their authority to do so. If they did not have a warrant, I really do not think I would be cooperating with them on principal alone.

 

I have had a bad personal experience with officers breaking into my home with guns drawn for a misdemenor offense of someone else present in my home. I was about 8 months pregnant and wearing nothing but a pair of underware at the time. The original charge was dropped entirely anyhow but was apparently worth terrorizing a naked pregnant woman in her own home. :glare:

[elizabeth]

Then lets confront it and deal with it. A national debate is not going to hurt. Keeping it all in the closet and pretending this doesn't exist weakens and divides us. Nothing good is gained without hard work and some pain (birth comes to mind). Let's do it.

I am curious as to whether anyone who has posted on this thread who assumes that we know the facts and that the facts are not in dispute has any idea what a 1983 action is under the law. Nope. I thought not. Link provided for those who are curious about institutional abuses of power. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/1983.html Look ,there is a long history of police turning snarling dogs, firehoses and yes, even organizing lynch mobs to bring "justice," upon people of color who dared to not look at the ground when speaking to a white person.I live three blocks from a courthouse where this happened. Is this what happened today? Certainly not but do not for a moment pretend that you can graft your experience onto that of a person of color in our great nation. They have a shared history with all of us as citizens but there is a part of their history, their consciousness that those of us who are not a minority cannot really appreciate. I do not think this happened here but until an investigation and tapes if any are revealed I think speculation is not helpful. It is also not helpful to once again pretend that institutional racism is not a problem of the past that bleeds its ugliness into our present .

[Blessedfamily]

He should have said, "I don't know the facts in that particular case, and I'm here to talk about health care reform."

[5kidsforME]

Then lets confront it and deal with it. A national debate is not going to hurt. Keeping it all in the closet and pretending this doesn't exist weakens and divides us. Nothing good is gained without hard work and some pain (birth comes to mind). Let's do it.

 

So what would you suggest doing? Short of getting BO on the phone I don't see how us talking about it on the WTM board is going to change anything. This is in no way meant to be snarky either. I am sincere.

[LibraryLover]

I am curious as to whether anyone who has posted on this thread who assumes that we know the facts and that the facts are not in dispute has any idea what a 1983 action is under the law. Nope. I thought not. Link provided for those who are curious about institutional abuses of power. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/1983.html Look ,there is a long history of police turning snarling dogs, firehoses and yes, even organizing lynch mobs to bring "justice," upon people of color who dared to not look at the ground when speaking to a white person.I live three blocks from a courthouse where this happened. Is this what happened today? Certainly not but do not for a moment pretend that you can graft your experience onto that of a person of color in our great nation. They have a shared history with all of us as citizens but there is a part of their history, their consciousness that those of us who are not a minority cannot really appreciate. I do not think this happened here but until an investigation and tapes if any are revealed I think speculation is not helpful. It is also not helpful to once again pretend that institutional racism is not a problem of the past that bleeds its ugliness into our present .

 

 

I agree. A past ignored and/or denied is a present misunderstood and/or unacknowledged. This needs confronting, no matter how difficult and messy.

Edited July 25, 2009 by LibraryLover

[5kidsforME]

I am curious as to whether anyone who has posted on this thread who assumes that we know the facts and that the facts are not in dispute has any idea what a 1983 action is under the law. Nope. I thought not. Link provided for those who are curious about institutional abuses of power. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/1983.html Look ,there is a long history of police turning snarling dogs, firehoses and yes, even organizing lynch mobs to bring "justice," upon people of color who dared to not look at the ground when speaking to a white person.I live three blocks from a courthouse where this happened. Is this what happened today? Certainly not but do not for a moment pretend that you can graft your experience onto that of a person of color in our great nation. They have a shared history with all of us as citizens but there is a part of their history, their consciousness that those of us who are not a minority cannot really appreciate. I do not think this happened here but until an investigation and tapes if any are revealed I think speculation is not helpful. It is also not helpful to once again pretend that institutional racism is not a problem of the past that bleeds its ugliness into our present .

 

 

I guess you meant this to shut all conversation down?

 

No one is arguing that racism has been and even still can be an issue. Obviously in the past a HUGE HUGE problem.

 

If you don't think this happened here why bring it up? To incite more anger and frustration? How does this help heal wounds?

[Joy at Home]

NO.......he was arrested for "disturbing the public" or whatever trumped up charge the cop came up with!

I can't even remember now.

 

BUT the cop was there because they thought he was breaking and entering.

Upon discovering it was his house, they should have left.

PERIOD.

 

Even if the man had called the cop a fascist pig, the cop should have shut up and left.

Freedom of speech and being on your own property amount to nothing in this case.

 

If the cops have to arrest this man, they obviously DO NOT have enough work to do and we should let a few go and save some money!!!!

They were there for a robbery. There was none. Now leave. PERIOD.

 

Well, I guess we'll have wait and hopefully here the tapes and evidence in this case. The officer stated he was attempting to leave but Gates continued yelling and insulting him. I'm sorry, but I don't think any officer would or should put up with that. I don't feel that an officer doing his job and FOLLOWING PROTOCOL should be subjected to complete belligerence and verbal abuse.

 

If there is racism, it is on the parts of Gates. PERIOD.

 

Lisa

[TravelingChris]

There can be racism by any person of any color. In my judgement, the racist comments were made by Prof. Gates and his arrest was not racist at all. I am not familiar with the area in which Prof. Gates lives. Based on the fact that he is a professor, I figure it is an upper class area. I live in such an area. It is a quiet neighborhood. If someone was outside arguing with police loudly and refused police instructions to go back inside, I would expect such a person to be arrested. If my adult son, who has a bad attitude about police, did such a thing, I would expect him to be arrested.

 

Also, if the houses are not very close to each other, the neighbor did the right thing by calling. They were having problems entering the house and were trying to force open the door. Maybe she did know the Professor and knew he was out of town. You don't expect people to try to breakdown their own doors or to be surprised if the police show up when they do such a thing. Gates' first comment out of his mouth was racist.

 

NOw are there some police who stop people because they are black? I am sure there are. When I was with immigration, we had officers who couldn't distinguish between immigrants who were coming on business or actual vacation and those who were trying to enter as illegals. They would end up harassing all Latin Americans who arrived. It was a sign of ignorance. Inspectors who were better mannered and more professional treated everyone with more respect but honed in their questioning on those with suspicious documents or suspect stories. That turns out to be a better investigative tool since you don't waste your time trying to figure out how to charge a millionaire Mexican with trying to enter the country to get a job as a gardener or construction worker.

[OnTheBrink]

I am curious as to whether anyone who has posted on this thread who assumes that we know the facts and that the facts are not in dispute has any idea what a 1983 action is under the law. Nope. I thought not. Link provided for those who are curious about institutional abuses of power. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/1983.html Look ,there is a long history of police turning snarling dogs, firehoses and yes, even organizing lynch mobs to bring "justice," upon people of color who dared to not look at the ground when speaking to a white person.I live three blocks from a courthouse where this happened. Is this what happened today? Certainly not but do not for a moment pretend that you can graft your experience onto that of a person of color in our great nation. They have a shared history with all of us as citizens but there is a part of their history, their consciousness that those of us who are not a minority cannot really appreciate. I do not think this happened here but until an investigation and tapes if any are revealed I think speculation is not helpful. It is also not helpful to once again pretend that institutional racism is not a problem of the past that bleeds its ugliness into our present .

 

I've not seen a post here where anyone's implied they know all the facts. Do you? I'm guessing not.

 

What I'm seeing is people saying that the POTUS should have not commented publicly on a case he knew very little, if anything, about.

[johnandtinagilbert]

This was not a national issue. Without proper examination and a complete knowledge of the facts, he should have not commented to this specific case. I do agree with his continued comment about "unfortunate racism, etc."

 

In the same fashion, perhaps many opinions on this thread are made without all the facts; therefore, I offer them to you. You decide :)

 

Arrest report

 

I am sorry to say I can't find the article I read that mentions the officer. If someone else finds it, please post. I've been searching for 20 min. and need to fold laundry, so I can't keep looking.

 

According to what I read, the officer:

 

1. Teaches the racial profiling class, discouraging such, I believe he either has taught for 5 years or is scheduled as the teacher for 5 years.

 

2. Gave mouth to mouth to a black american (a former Boston Celtic who had an accident). {I don't use African American b/c I believe this man was of American birth}

 

3. A black, American officer was present and found no racism.

 

I do not reject there is racial profiling.

 

I do not reject police officers can have bad attitudes just b/c.

 

I also do not reject there are excellent officers, who are also excellent human beings and not a bone racist.

 

I have been profiled b/c I look white (although only half) and visit regularly a predominantly black neighborhood.

 

I also believe the race card is WAY over played. In my estimation there was no race issue here until Mr. Gates began slinging his prejudice view that all white officers have a problem with all black man. The worst kind of racism, to me, is the kind that projects their hate on to others, accusing them of the same hate they possess. Honestly, I find it repugnant.

 

I, a Latina American, have a problem with Racism. Period. I don't use the term "reverse" racism b/c I find it silly. Racism is racism from any race to another.

 

So, if we really want to have a discussion, please let's consider that racism goes well beyond "whites hate blacks." Any race of people who despises another, are then racist.

Edited July 25, 2009 by johnandtinagilbert
to remove the word "cops" and replace it with something more appropriate, police officer

[Maria from IN]

Look ,there is a long history of police turning snarling dogs, firehoses and yes, even organizing lynch mobs to bring "justice," upon people of color who dared to not look at the ground when speaking to a white person.I live three blocks from a courthouse where this happened. Is this what happened today? Certainly not but do not for a moment pretend that you can graft your experience onto that of a person of color in our great nation. They have a shared history with all of us as citizens but there is a part of their history, their consciousness that those of us who are not a minority cannot really appreciate. .

 

You're right--we cannot fully appreciate that man's past, as well as the past of those of his race. However, especially as a man of his race and education, it behooves him to acknowledge how far we've come as well as the horrors of where we've been, and thank the officers for checking up on his home rather than screaming 'racist' because a white man happens to be checking up on the facts.

[jenL]

I don't think he should have commented.

[johnandtinagilbert]

You're right--we cannot fully appreciate that man's past, as well as the past of those of his race. However, especially as a man of his race and education, it behooves him to acknowledge how far we've come as well as the horrors of where we've been, and thank the officers for checking up on his home rather than screaming 'racist' because a white man happens to be checking up on the facts.

 

Here, here. Have we not moved mountains in this nation? He is a professor where? Our president is what? The time for instantly jumping to the race card, is past. We will never move farther if the abuse continues and people don't stop Assuming everyone they come across is a hater.

[elizabeth]

Here, here. Have we not moved mountains in this nation? He is a professor where? Our president is what? The time for instantly jumping to the race card, is past. We will never move farther if the abuse continues and people don't stop Assuming everyone they come across is a hater.

That is exactly the problem .Despite having a Phd and being one of the most prominent writers on race of the century or being President of the United States, many , many people due to insulated life experiences, ignorance or racism see color before anything else. Their questioning their assessment of a person begins and ends there. It is not at all irrational for a man of color to assume a defensive posture while being ordered around in his own home by a police officer. Was it the appropriate reaction ? Only time will reveal all the facts. Was it gracious? Likely not . Was it wise? Certainly not . But it is to me understandable. To assert that the man was instantly jumping to the conclusion that he was being profiled as a ludicrous position for him to take ignores a great deal of history. It was likely not how I would respond but then again that is my history, my experience, as a highly educated woman , of some means, whose race/ethnicity is not readily apparent . The odd thing about this to me is what a dangerous precedent behaviourally this sets for young African -American men who are seeking role models . Behave this way on the streets in a bad neighborhood and the police will not react at all well. This is how to survive 101. Hands up , behind head and hit the ground. Fail to comply and you are likely to get hurt. Badly. This is my concern that other young men without a male leader figure in their lives will adopt this as a way to react when interacting with police. Needless tragedy occurs every day due to a failure to comply. Tough questions for everybody to consider.

[Urban Girl]

Thank you for saying this!! My dh was pulled over last year for DWB (driving while black). He was in a certain part of town and a cop pulled him over for NO APPARENT REASON. My dh did nothing to warrant the stop. He is a quiet, soft-spoken man. My dh is a law-abiding citizen, an elder in the church and a wonderful man with a pleasant demeanor. He was HUMILIATED!! For those on this board who don't have a clue about what is like being a minority in this country-please try to be somewhat sensitive to the situation. In the black community, we have to teach our children to be very careful when dealing with law enforcement. I've known of several different cases where people have been beaten up or harassed by cops b/c of the color of their skin. My sons are only 8 and 5 yo. But, there will come a time in the very near future that we will have to talk to them about "racial profiling".

 

:iagree: My son is 8, and the police have always been the good guys as far as he's concerned, and we need to prepare him for reality. I think Obama should never have commented.

[Home'scool]

To those who think the cop should have left as soon as the guy showed his ID:

 

What if the guy used to live there but now has a restraining order against him and shouldn't be there? What if the ID was fake?

 

It really isnt as simple as "show me your ID and you can be on your way". There is much more to the situation that the policeman has to verify before he can leave.

 

And, no, a person who is screaming and shouting at a policeman isn't automatically protected by free speech. Not if the policeman is investigating suspicous behavior. Not until it is clear what is going on. The policeman asked the professor to move outside because there was a report of 2 men breaking into the house, and the policeman only had 1 there with him. It was dangerous to be in the house not knowing who else was in there and if there were any weapons around. It was when the professor refused to move outside and kept being beligerent that he was arrested for disorderly conduct. Free speech is protected by the consitution, but being an ass and endangering people is not.

 

You can be an ass in front of a policeman and call him what you want after the policeman is assured that he, you and everyone else at the scene are not in any danger.

[johnandtinagilbert]

That is exactly the problem .Despite having a Phd and being one of the most prominent writers on race of the century or being President of the United States, many , many people due to insulated life experiences, ignorance or racism see color before anything else. Their questioning their assessment of a person begins and ends there. It is not at all irrational for a man of color to assume a defensive posture while being ordered around in his own home by a police officer. Was it the appropriate reaction ? Only time will reveal all the facts. Was it gracious? Likely not . Was it wise? Certainly not . But it is to me understandable. To assert that the man was instantly jumping to the conclusion that he was being profiled as a ludicrous position for him to take ignores a great deal of history. It was likely not how I would respond but then again that is my history, my experience, as a highly educated woman , of some means, whose race/ethnicity is not readily apparent . The odd thing about this to me is what a dangerous precedent behaviourally this sets for young African -American men who are seeking role models . Behave this way on the streets in a bad neighborhood and the police will not react at all well. This is how to survive 101. Hands up , behind head and hit the ground. Fail to comply and you are likely to get hurt. Badly. This is my concern that other young men without a male leader figure in their lives will adopt this as a way to react when interacting with police. Needless tragedy occurs every day due to a failure to comply. Tough questions for everybody to consider.

 

Very well spoken. For a man in the generation of Mr. Gates, I would say understandable lack of trust, but not grounds (considering his position, and our current president) for instantly jumping to the race card.

 

It's also sad for me to note, but pertinent nonetheless, that many of the younger generation (less than 30 perhaps) don't even know black history in America. That being said, and again I think its sad, it is also reflective that race issues in the way Mr. Gates remembers or possibly sees them, are no longer relevant.

 

Many races and socioeconomic classes of people jump to conclusions about police officers.

 

I have no problem calling a spade a spade, I just don't see the race issue in this situation. I'm also sad b/c when this occurs (tossing out the race card incorrectly), I believe it creates a chasm between races, and leads backwards in race issues.

 

Thank you for the kind, civil discussion. I have appreciated it greatly.

[Robin Hood]

It's wrong to argue with cops. Their job is also to keep order and arguing is not orderly. Mr Gates was not just arguing, he was belligerent. Pres Obama, by saying that Off. Crosby acted stupidly has now lowered the public opinion of the role of the police, provoking more arguing, more arrests, and most likely, more race cards. He should have kept quiet.

[pqr]

Now I must admit that reading what two police officers reported and what they are willing to put onto a legal document about civilian witnesses would make me believe

 

1. If there was any racism involved it was on the part of Gates.

 

2. It was inappropriate, no it was absolutely wrong, for anyone (other than perhaps the officers) to pull the race card.

 

3. There was no profiling, "DWB" or anything else here. It seems that this was a case of an elitist professor who instead of appreciating the fact that the police were trying to look after his property went off on a tirade.

 

A copy of the police report

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 2

 

 

 

Copy of report from Officer Figueroa

 

.

 

 

[Debbie in OR]

To those who think the cop should have left as soon as the guy showed his ID:

 

What if the guy used to live there but now has a restraining order against him and shouldn't be there? What if the ID was fake?

 

It really isnt as simple as "show me your ID and you can be on your way". There is much more to the situation that the policeman has to verify before he can leave.

 

And' date=' no, a person who is screaming and shouting at a policeman isn't automatically protected by free speech. Not if the policeman is investigating suspicous behavior. Not until it is clear what is going on. The policeman asked the professor to move outside because there was a report of 2 men breaking into the house, and the policeman only had 1 there with him. It was dangerous to be in the house not knowing who else was in there and if there were any weapons around. It was when the professor refused to move outside and kept being beligerent that he was arrested for disorderly conduct. Free speech is protected by the consitution, but being an ass and endangering people is not.

 

You can be an ass in front of a policeman and call him what you want after the policeman is assured that he, you and everyone else at the scene are not in any danger.[/quote']

 

 

Yep.

[LMA]

A local police chief pointed out that anyone who back talks a police officer can be arrested for disorderly conduct. The term 'disorderly' is broad and if the police officer feels threatened, you can be arrested. Also, you may not be arrested but you can still be brought in and held for a certain amount of time before charges must be pressed or you are released. All of this happens all of the time.

 

In addition, many people are arrested for various offenses but then released with the charges dropped. It happens everyday. We just don't hear about every arrest and dropped charges in the news.

[freeindeed]

Do you think Barack Obama should have commented?

 

No. I think he is too involved in things that he shouldn't even be involved in in the first place. It's as if he is trying to micromanage everyone and everything in our country.

[lionfamily1999]

Pqr, thanks for posting the reports.

 

Interesting side-effect (or my psychic premonition)

 

The next time someone tries to break into his house, none of his neighbors are going to call the police.

 

Since he's already had an attempted break-in, I'm not surprised his neighbor would call the police. I'm also not surprised that the police would arrest him for being so "disorderly." I don't think race had anything to do with this, outside of why Mr. Gates would've responded in such an overly dramatic way.

[zaichiki]

I have watched Henry Gates on PBS shows for YEARS! I've always admired him as an intelligent and well-spoken man. After reading those police reports, I must admit that I am VERY disappointed in Henry Gates' behavior. It's SO sad. Maybe he was drunk or something? I sure hope so! I'd hate to think that kind of behavior was Henry Gates in full control of his faculties. Sigh.

[pqr]

It's SO sad. Maybe he was drunk or something? .

 

If he was drunk I might argue En oino áléthei...In vino veritas....In wine there is truth.

 

I suspect you saw the real man, not the one with his stage face on for his lectures.