Can someone just assure me that this is not normal behavior? (my mom)

[luuknam]

I appreciate the feedback. I do also want to know if my sister's behavior was out of line too.

 

Like I said, I'd suggest keeping social media involving mom separate from social media involving friends. I thought it was facebook, but same thing holds for instagram or w/e. Would your sister have invited her friends and her mom to her house for a fun gathering and shown the picture and made that joke in front of all her friends and your mom? No? Then don't do it on instagram or w/e either. I wouldn't say your sister was "out-of-line", I mostly just think it wasn't smart, knowing how your mom reacts.

[pinkmint]

And as far as using, she takes painkillers now as opposed to illegal drugs.

[mamiof5]

I'm so sorry!! I just can't imagine any mom talking to their kids like that. Very sad :( No, not normal at all

[MistyMountain]

The response was way over the line and verbally abusive. To me it sounded like a light hearted post that is pretty common more then a dig and I am pretty sensitive to digs. I can see how someone was hurt but you do not rage on someone, curse at them and insult innocent people over it. I do not think it is a rare response. I know people who blow things out of proportion and insult but it is not healthy and makes having a meaningful relationship hard.

Edited April 27, 2016 by MistyMountain

[gardenmom5]

I haven't read all the replies.

no - her reaction was not normal.

as other's have suggested, personality disorder is a possibility.  the drugs causing lasting personality change is a possibility.

I'm sorry for you and your sister she made such poor choices.  I do know how hard that can be.  there is only one thing you can do . .

 

it sounds like she's always been this way, and the only thing you can really do is - boundaries. there are different degrees of boundaries, from not tolerating certain things, limiting contact or the extreme of severing contact.  you're a grown-up now, and you don't have to submit to her behavior.  there are certain things you should not tolerate - abuse being at the top.  if she starts hurling invective verbal abuse - "bye mom, i'll talk to you later.".    you are under NO obligation to listen to it.  only you will know what level of contact is 'safe' to have with her.

 

decide ahead of time what you will and will not tolerate.  incidentally, you will be doing her a favor in not allowing her to abuse you or  your children. (while protecting your kids and saving your sanity.)

[Tita Gidge]

It's not normal for functional relationships, but this is clearly not a healthy, functional relationship. :sad:

 

But I'll say, I admire the acceptance you and your sister show your mom.  My mother is a saint, she's awesome and always has been.  My best friend's mom was a junkie who used my friend's SSN and effectively had her in credit hell before she was old enough for a driver's license. She forced her to work starting at 15 and to pay the rent so Mom's dealer boyfriends could live with them and they could get high all day. But my friend has forgiven her mom and continues to show grace for the woman she is still today (clean and sober, but very much in denial about my friend's childhood and still on the "you owe me for bringing you into this world" mentality). I'm in awe of her ability to forgive and accept her mom where she is and for who she is. The same is true of you. I don't think I could, or would.

 

I think it's normal for people to look back at their childhoods and laugh at certain excerpts - especially if there's photographic proof.  We've all had crap haircuts, or worse - home perms LOL.  I also think it's normal for some people to cope or process certain childhood events through humor. I can see why your mom over-reacted but I don't think your sister was out of line. That she removed the caption suggests she values a relationship (however dysfunctional) with your mom, and that she didn't intend it as any kind of jab. Hopefully your mom realizes that once she simmers down. And if not, at least you and your sister have each other, and can support each other through these situations as they (no doubt will continue to) come up.

 

[mamiof5]

I guess the keyword is "relationship".

 

It's my hope that I am building the kind of relationship with my kids where they wouldn't post stuff on social media that insults my best and honest parenting efforts. My mom never forged any sort of relationship with us. And now that she's aging and doesn't have much else going on (fading beauty, can't attract the men) she wants to cash in on something she didn't invest in. She wants a relationship, but one where we have to pretend the past doesn't exist.

 

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that it's not surprising my sister made that remark about our hair. It wasn't the best idea for her to say that. It just feels tame compared to some stuff we could say like "Saw a crackpipe on the sidewalk today. Brings back memories of mom's boyfriend from when I was in 4th grade." or "Saw a cockroach today. Reminds me of how mom used to tell us that we kids are like cockroaches in her life."

I honestly just cannot imagine. Stuff happened in my childhood, and yes, it shouldn't have happened. But oh well. However, my mom truly apologized for some of it. Lots of stuff happened, and I am sure if I confronted her with specific events she might not own up to some of them. My sister does this sometimes, and keeps bringing it up sometimes. It's sad. I took her apology and moved on. Your mom cannot want any sort of relationship with you before owning up to some of her mistakes in the past. Healing won't be able to take place unless she apologizes. Sounds like you are trying to give your kids something SO different!!! Keep trying and don't give up, it's well worth it :)

[Mimm]

I disagree that she lacks a mental condition. Look into borderline personality disorder or narcissism. Or something along those lines. Not to excuse her abusive behavior by any means. It's not normal and not something you should subject yourself to.

 

Agree with this. Soooo not normal OP.

 

 I can understand where this is coming from. My kids growing up to not like me, and point out my failures is a fear of mine. 

 

At the same time, how do you even know where to start in having a relationship with a mom like this? I won't say it's right but I'll just be honest in saying it feels like adding insult to injury to have had a childhood so messed up that no one you know even has a frame of reference for the type of stuff you went through, and then have to tip toe around the feelings of the person who caused much of it. It's hard, let's just say that. 

 

There's about a zero percent chance she's willing to go to counseling or anything of that nature, based on how things have been so far. So I don't know how productive it is to expect something like that. It just leaves me in a hard place not knowing how to handle this relationship. I'm not expecting anyone on here to figure it out for me. Just talking. 

 

Sometimes you simply don't have a relationship with someone like that. If a parent is incapable of having a healthy relationship that doesn't harm you, you don't owe them an unhealthy relationship that harms you.

 

I assumed it wasn't about fashion but rather a bad home haircut. Then it's about the care that the mother gave the children.  If it's about a terrible home haircut, it's probably also about poverty or lack of access to certain things... it goes to critiquing a parent's abilities, not just fashions or whims. 

 

What if our homeschooled children post 30 years from now: "Found a box of old schoolwork. Look at my awful handwriting! My teacher should have been fired." 

 

 

Yeah, still not a normal reaction. Personally, I would laugh and make some remark about how their teacher was probably drinking wine hiding in the closet during that lesson.

[Carol in Cal.]

I honestly just cannot imagine. Stuff happened in my childhood, and yes, it shouldn't have happened. But oh well. However, my mom truly apologized for some of it. Lots of stuff happened, and I am sure if I confronted her with specific events she might not own up to some of them. My sister does this sometimes, and keeps bringing it up sometimes. It's sad. I took her apology and moved on. Your mom cannot want any sort of relationship with you before owning up to some of her mistakes in the past. Healing won't be able to take place unless she apologizes. Sounds like you are trying to give your kids something SO different!!! Keep trying and don't give up, it's well worth it :)

People like this don't apologize unless it's part of their 12 steps or they have a huge change of heart.  The question is whether and how to have a relationship anyway.  I agree that this woman SHOULD apologize, but I don't think it's likely.

[MotherGoose]

She was definitely way out of line, no excuses for that. However, from experiences in dealing with a relative who has a similar hair trigger and had some definite parenting deficiencies (in denial about them), I've encouraged the adult child in question to avoid things that are potentially triggers to set her off. Of course, sometimes you have no idea what might set her off, but it could see how there might have been some inkling that this one might have been touchy for her. No you and sister shouldn't have to tiptoe around her, and she shouldn't react like this. She should laugh it off. But she's not normal, and nothing you can do will ever make her normal. To cut down on the drama, I've advised the adult child I know of this relative to just back away from potential drama situations. He knows when he's pushing her buttons deliberately, and perhaps your sister knew too. I I get why she'd want to do that. I get why they person I know wants to do it too. You wish you had some shared childhood experiences you could look back on with yr mom and laugh about together. But you don't. You can only control you and what you say. It might make family gatherings more peaceful in the future, or she might become enraged about someone sitting at the traffic light beside her or the temperature of the room and let that ruin the day. You can't control that. I hope this makes sense. Im in no way excusing her. Just thinking about the realities of her future reactions to things. SHE is not going to change. Yes, it's sad for the kids, and for all of you.

[TammyS]

. I do also want to know if my sister's behavior was out of line too. Editef to add: I want us to be responsible for our own behavior even if our mom won't be.

 

 

 

I think your sister's behavior was fine.  I think we all have bad haircuts and other type photos from our childhood that we could post and make fun of.  It doesn't come across to me as hurtful or mean in anyway.  However, if your mother had been hurt/embarassed and expressed it like a sane person, I think the kind thing would be to take it down, as an act of kindness (even though I would still think mom was being over sensitive).    But once she went nutso, I would leave it up to make sure I didn't reward nutso behavior, even if I would have otherwise taken it down.

[6packofun]

Wow, I am so sorry.  I think many of us have had to grieve the parent-child relationship that we wanted and will never ever get because of all sorts of issues.  You sound incredibly well-adjusted, IMO, considering.

[OnMyOwn]

Your sister's comment seems fairly mild to me and, in our family, would be taken in a joking tone.  If this is something your sister knew your mom would be upset about, I can understand your mom having a reaction.  How she expressed it was completely inappropriate, though.  I could even understand an over-the-top emotional response in the moment, but would expect her to feel remorseful about it within an hour or two.  Still being angry a week or two later seems incredibly immature.

[zoobie]

Your sister's mistake was allowing her access to the post knowing she's unhinged, not the post itself IMO.

[pinkmint]

Wow, I am so sorry. I think many of us have had to grieve the parent-child relationship that we wanted and will never ever get because of all sorts of issues. You sound incredibly well-adjusted, IMO, considering.

Giving all the credit to Jesus. That's my only explanation. Whatever is normal and healthy is his doing.

 

I started my adult life following in my mom's footsteps except I took it to the next level.

[Corraleno]

Sometimes you simply don't have a relationship with someone like that. If a parent is incapable of having a healthy relationship that doesn't harm you, you don't owe them an unhealthy relationship that harms you.

 

THIS. 

 

You do not owe an abusive parent a lifetime of walking on eggshells and pretending that your horrific childhood never happened. You are not obligated to sacrifice your own mental health and peace of mind in order to enable a narcissist. I'm a little shocked by the people suggesting that your sister was out of line, and that the best way to deal with a crazy, abusive parent is to avoid provoking them. WTH? Would we ever tell a woman who is being emotionally abused by her husband that maybe if she'd stop provoking him, he'd stop treating her like sh*t? Why is this any different???

 

OP, I spent decades wishing that I could have some kind of normal relationship with my mother, hoping that one day she would realize that what she put me through was inexcusable and wrong and she would apologize. So I spent years being superficially pleasant, hoping that by not pissing her off, not mentioning the hell she put me through, maybe someday she would see things clearly. It took me a while to realize how completely delusional that was. So one day, after receiving an especially vicious letter from her telling me what a terrible person I was (and what a paragon of virtue she was), I calmly sat down and wrote back, telling her exactly how I felt about my childhood and about what she had done to me (and allowed to be done to me). And the moment I put that letter in the mail, I felt like a 20 ton weight was lifted from my shoulders. I knew the truth — that she was NPD and would never change and that I would never have a "real mother," no matter how long I waited or how much I might wish for it.

 

If you can find a way to let go of that hope, if you can accept the fact that, although you deserved far better, you had a really shitty excuse for a mother and there's simply no way to change or fix that, you may find that quite liberating. It may also help you set firmer boundaries, because it's much easier to do that when you know exactly where you stand. It's hard to draw a line in the sand if you're constantly edging forward and backward trying to figure out where you want to be (and where the abuser wants you to be). 

 

Many  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  from someone who gets it.

[mamiof5]

People like this don't apologize unless it's part of their 12 steps or they have a huge change of heart. The question is whether and how to have a relationship anyway. I agree that this woman SHOULD apologize, but I don't think it's likely.

What a sad situation :(

[amy g.]

I do not believe your sister did anything wrong other than letting mom have access to her social media. That is coming from someone whose adult children have criticized my homeschooling and parenting sometimes even publicly. I take it in stride because while they are adults, they are young adults and they were homeschooled their whole lives and they really don't have anything to compare their childhoods and education to. I get it. I'm the mom. I get over it because that is what moms do and I value the relationship with my children SO MUCH!

 

I'm not going to say that you should cut off contact with your mom, but today I got to see a pretty nice side effect of cutting off mine.

 

I was in the car with my 17 year old this morning. She was saying that she is worried about a friend who has had issues with mean girls. My daughter doesn't understand why they are still friends. She has never allowed anyone to treat her that way, in part because she hasn't grown up with a role model of my walking on eggshells, letting myself and my children be disrespected just to preserve some surface "relationship".

 

The hardest part for me has been how my cutting off the relationship with my mother has hurt my siblings. I just found out that my brother, who has always hoped for a reconciliation, gave our mother access to my FB photos.

 

She said something so hateful about my 17 year old that he had to call and tell me that I did our whole family the biggest favor by not letting her destructive influence around these beautiful, HEALTHY children.

 

Again, I'm not saying you should break off contact, just that if she never wants to talk to your sister again, it may be a blessing in disguise.

 

Much love to you on your journey. It is so difficult to be the nurturing mother who was never nurtured as a child, but it is also the ultimate hero tale.

[Mimm]

THIS. 

 

You do not owe an abusive parent a lifetime of walking on eggshells and pretending that your horrific childhood never happened. You are not obligated to sacrifice your own mental health and peace of mind in order to enable a narcissist. I'm a little shocked by the people suggesting that your sister was out of line, and that the best way to deal with a crazy, abusive parent is to avoid provoking them. WTH? Would we ever tell a woman who is being emotionally abused by her husband that maybe if she'd stop provoking him, he'd stop treating her like sh*t? Why is this any different???

 

 

:iagree:   Agree with this so so much, especially the bolded. I have very frequently encountered an expectation people have that adult children should continually subject themselves to abuse from their parents. It's absolutely mind boggling. People who are perfectly willing to tell a wife to leave an abusive husband, would tell her to put up with an abusive parent.

[LMD]

THIS.

 

You do not owe an abusive parent a lifetime of walking on eggshells and pretending that your horrific childhood never happened. You are not obligated to sacrifice your own mental health and peace of mind in order to enable a narcissist. I'm a little shocked by the people suggesting that your sister was out of line, and that the best way to deal with a crazy, abusive parent is to avoid provoking them. WTH? Would we ever tell a woman who is being emotionally abused by her husband that maybe if she'd stop provoking him, he'd stop treating her like sh*t? Why is this any different???

 

OP, I spent decades wishing that I could have some kind of normal relationship with my mother, hoping that one day she would realize that what she put me through was inexcusable and wrong and she would apologize. So I spent years being superficially pleasant, hoping that by not pissing her off, not mentioning the hell she put me through, maybe someday she would see things clearly. It took me a while to realize how completely delusional that was. So one day, after receiving an especially vicious letter from her telling me what a terrible person I was (and what a paragon of virtue she was), I calmly sat down and wrote back, telling her exactly how I felt about my childhood and about what she had done to me (and allowed to be done to me). And the moment I put that letter in the mail, I felt like a 20 ton weight was lifted from my shoulders. I knew the truth — that she was NPD and would never change and that I would never have a "real mother," no matter how long I waited or how much I might wish for it.

 

If you can find a way to let go of that hope, if you can accept the fact that, although you deserved far better, you had a really shitty excuse for a mother and there's simply no way to change or fix that, you may find that quite liberating. It may also help you set firmer boundaries, because it's much easier to do that when you know exactly where you stand. It's hard to draw a line in the sand if you're constantly edging forward and backward trying to figure out where you want to be (and where the abuser wants you to be).

 

Many :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: from someone who gets it.

I'm dying to know how she reacted to the letter! (Please don't feel obligated to answer)

I just ignored the nasty, gaslighting letter. No point responding, may as well bang my head against a brick wall. Now I'm wondering if it would have been somewhat cathartic!

[LucyStoner]

As the adult child of an addict and someone who was neglected as a child (your food money shouldn't have gone to meth etc), you need to give yourself the space and time to heal. I would strongly reccomend that you read the book Boundaries. Seeing your own counselor would not be a bad idea either.

 

Often times addictions are a manisfestation of mental illness- it's called self medicating. Regardless, her illness doesn't excuse her mistreatment of those around her. You and your sister don't deserve this. Don't let her pit you against your sister.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

Wow!  I just can't even imagine my mom ever speaking to me or anyone else like that.  I'm really sorry but that should never be considered "normal".  

[Corraleno]

 It is so difficult to be the nurturing mother who was never nurtured as a child, but it is also the ultimate hero tale.

 

Beautifully said.   :crying:  

[Corraleno]

I'm dying to know how she reacted to the letter! (Please don't feel obligated to answer)

I just ignored the nasty, gaslighting letter. No point responding, may as well bang my head against a brick wall. Now I'm wondering if it would have been somewhat cathartic!

 

She was incandescent with rage — but luckily I didn't have to hear any of it, since she stopped speaking to me (I heard about it from siblings). We had no contact at all for about 5 years, and then my sister (the classic "golden child," who is still totally under my mother's thumb) started trying to arrange for us to meet in casual "just sort of happened" kinds of ways. Like we'd be visiting my sister, and she would casually mention that my mother (who lives in another state) would be stopping by for dinner. After several years of her ambushing me like that, I finally told her the truth about what my mother did, and she was stunned. I'm still not sure she believes it, but at least she's stopped trying to bring about a reconciliation. 

 

The letter was incredibly cathartic and I wished I'd sent it years earlier. For years and years I'd had a recurring dream (nightmare, really) where I'd be at a big family gathering, with all the extended family there, and my mother would be criticizing and sniping at me and I would finally stand up and tell everyone what kind of "mother" she really was and what she had done to me, and I would wake up in a sweat with my heart pounding, feeling incredibly angry and upset. That went on for years. After I sent her the letter and cut off contact, I never had that dream again.

[LMD]

Thanks for sharing Corraleno. I'm sorry that you went through that. I have some identical stories, ambushed by the golden sister and all!

[foxbridgeacademy]

not normal.  We tease my mom all the time, we, my sisters and I(DH too), tease each other ALL THE TIME.  That's normal.

 

 DH's mother was very similar in that you couldn't say anything negative about her, even in jest.  She'd get very cold and then weeks, months later she do something very destructive like cancelling babysitting on a special night, turning off our electricity(in Dh's name but it's the same as his dad's name), telling people we used drugs :huh:, and MUCH worse ..... all to "get even".  She was sugar sweet to your face though.  We stopped speaking to her about 12 years ago, life has been much calmer. Side note, my kids don't miss her and she and my DD would have probably come to blows at some point in their lives, we're just better off.

[Arcadia]

Since I have relatives who swear and have anger management issues, I would say not normal but expected.

 

As for social media, I have saved photos of my younger nephews and nieces off Facebook and Instagram because I didn't get to see them grow up being in different countries. So we are wary of what photos we put up on social media.

 

When we hire tutors for our kids, we look at the Facebook and LinkedIn pages of the tutors too before interviewing them.

[Ausmumof3]

I have given my kids some bad hair cuts when we couldn't afford the hairdresser and would probably be a little upset in time if they had a gentle dig even if it wasn't meant maliciously. There's a heck of a lot of stuff we've given up so their needs are met most of the time.

 

However, that reaction is incredibly over the top and I suspect you are dealing with some kind of mental disorder plus possibly tapping into years of guilt over bad parenting decisions.

[Liz CA]

 I can understand where this is coming from. My kids growing up to not like me, and point out my failures is a fear of mine. 

 

At the same time, how do you even know where to start in having a relationship with a mom like this? I won't say it's right but I'll just be honest in saying it feels like adding insult to injury to have had a childhood so messed up that no one you know even has a frame of reference for the type of stuff you went through, and then have to tip toe around the feelings of the person who caused much of it. It's hard, let's just say that. 

 

There's about a zero percent chance she's willing to go to counseling or anything of that nature, based on how things have been so far. So I don't know how productive it is to expect something like that. It just leaves me in a hard place not knowing how to handle this relationship. I'm not expecting anyone on here to figure it out for me. Just talking. 

 

I just want to say - very gently - that it will likely be very difficult to have any kind of normal relationship with someone like this. This incident aside, it seems there is much more. You may have to come to terms with the fact that even though she may be your biological mother, she may never be the mother you always wanted, needed and deserved. This is a painful realization but IMHO, only very firm boundaries with her would allow any kind of relationship or contact with someone like this - for your own peace and continued healing of your heart and soul and for the safety and peace of your children and dh.

 

You mentioned there is zero chance she'll go to counseling. Would you go to counseling so you can get a good feeling of what healthy woman to woman relationships are, why good boundaries are so helpful and to process all the losses in your life? My heart just hurts for all you have been through.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Liz CA

[Katy]

Your sister's post was fine, and some members of my family are extra sensitive to sarcasm, so I'm usually quite careful about such things.  Everyone has horrible childhood haircut pictures, and most people think they are adorable, and everyone understands the need to get the hair out of that child's eyes right now even if the bangs are a little crooked, or cutting out the knot, or that kids cut their hair themselves sometimes. 

 

Most people can accept teasing about how awful they did the kids' hair when they were little with a shrug and a smile and a, "Yep, they needed a haircut and in those days I couldn't afford to take them to cost cutters every 6 weeks," and not assume child is criticizing everything they did wrong as a parent.

 

Also, given your history if your mom was healthy now, she would accept responsibility for her actions, and all the ways she genuinely failed as a mother.  And I don't meanjust the wrong choices she made regarding to you each individually, but the massive ways she failed to give you a safe, stable, and loving home life.  In the scheme of things, it should be obvious to her that a haircut is nothing and she could take responsibility for it. She's not.  Being forced to walk on eggshells around her, her not accepting teasing or responsibility for anything she did wrong is a sign something is wrong.  It could just be addiction.  It could be a personality disorder.  My guess is it's both.

 

That Stop Walking on Eggshells book I recommended up thread and the Boundaries book by Henry Cloud Townsend were both answers to my prayers when I was younger and trying to figure out what normal meant.  I know for sure that the Boundaries one is Christian and scripture based.  The Eggshells one is a bit more secular, but more in line with how to deal with this sort of behavior specifically.  I highly recommend you read both.  I think I may have recommended them both in a thread about your dad too. Both are bestsellers so if you live in a medium-sized city it's highly possible your libraries have copies of both that you can read for free.  I think once you read them you'll want copies, but if you're anything like me you'll loan them out or give them away so frequently you'll need to order them again. Also, if you hate reading, there are audiobooks of each.  If you haven't used your free trial of audible.com yet you can download them both for free and listen to them while doing something else. I frequently listen to audiobooks and podcasts while cooking and cleaning.