I'm worried about my child...

[Courtney_Ostaff]

I'm worried about my child. We had a play date, and I was ready to pull my hair out by the end.  Granted, the other kid is a high-functioning autistic kid, and granted the other child's mother was all up in their business to make sure they played "right", but my normally sweet, biddable, easy to get along with girl was actually back-talking the other mom.  I was shocked!

 

Then I was wondering...is my child being poorly socialized? Does she need more unstructured play time to practice these skills? How much is enough? What do other parents do. Hence the poll.

[boscopup]

I can't vote because it's requiring me to vote for the grade 9-12 category, which I don't have yet.

 

But my kids see other kids at church twice a week and get to play maybe 15 minutes there. The younger kids sometimes go across the street to play with the neighbor girls for a few hours, but not every day or every week.

 

So I'd vote 0-2 hours for each of those two categories.

 

I think the mom being up in their business was probably the issue. Go to the playground on a day when other kids are there, and you can see how your child reacts with kids in general. My kids only have each other most of the time, but at a playground I stay out of the way and they're fine. I have to worry more about what they're doing to each other than to someone else. :tongue_smilie:

[rebot]

I tried to vote 0-2 for the K-4 age bracket, but something went wrong.  The tough part with your poll is the unstructured part.  I have been looking, and have yet to find, for someone my childs age (6) to just come over and play.  Most of the parents, that I've met anyway, want to plan and structure every bit of their kids day.

 

 

 

 

 

[EmilyGF]

We played outside with neighbors and friends for 6 hours yesterday. I listen in, but the time is unstructured. During the summer the kids get 10+ hours free play with neighbors or friends per week. Maybe 6 or so during the winter.

[SKL]

I estimate about 6ish hours for my 7yo girls.  The poll did not let me vote.

 

I think in the situation you described, your daughter was just stressed out.  That didn't sound like unstructured free play at all.

 

I would just talk to her about respecting elders prior to the next playdate, and relax.  I would also take her to the park where she can meet and play with all kinds of kids on a short-term basis, as she pleases or doesn't please.

[Mandylubug]

Some weeks my kids get zero non family member play time. There are 4 kids, though. They all are near same age and play very well together. I've never felt they were unsocialized. I actually think they are quite well rounded in social situations.

[AimeeM]

6 year old girls can be bossy. *hugs* I really wouldn't look too much into it.

 

ETA: my almost 13 year old gal gets about 30+ hours of unstructured free play with a friend per month. I have to assign it as monthly for polling purposes because the child's dad lives in our neighborhood and the girl is here every other weekend. They play, pretty literally, ALL day saturday and sunday, and most of the evening friday, on the weekends she's here - often they have sleepovers all weekend as well. They swim, roam the neighborhood, play inside - whatever.

On off weeks, DD may see her female cousin (same age) for a few hours here and there.

[Tracy]

If a child needs practice with social skills, you don't do it with another child who even more behind in social skills.  You cannot base your assessment of your child's social skills on a single play date with a child on the spectrum.  

 

During the summer, we see friends generally 2x/week, once at the library and once at the park.  During the school year, we continue meeting at the library weekly, but play dates are 2x/month.  Years ago when my kids were little, I started a play group.  I only invited people to play who have similar values.  I don't mind so much if a child has poor social skills as long as the mom enforces reasonable boundaries (like we don't hit, we don't exclude others, no name-calling, etc.).  New people who join us often remark at how well the children in our group play together.  

[Tress]

:grouphug:

No, I don't think your DD is poorly socialized! She is 6 and still learning. And I would not make changes in play time after one such incident.

I'm not really clear on what 'backtalking' exactly is (I'm not American, English is a foreign language for me), but your DD wasn't yelling or using rude language, right? She was contradicting the mother, or something like that?

If the mother was acting in some kind of official way (Mother sitting away talking with adults, sees something going wrong, walks to the kids and tells them to stop) I would later go over what happened with my kids and do some roleplaying. If the mother was on the ground near the kids, all the time making comments 'let's do this, why don't you get that, no, let so-and-so do this', I can totally see my kids getting confused and treating that mother as a fellow playmate, including contradicting or trying to boss her. I might talk about that with my kids, but would probably just shrug.

My kids play from the time schools go out (3pm) until bedtime outside with neighbourhood kids, so they have a lot of unstructured play time. That's easily 5 hours a day. (Obviously not my 3yo.)

[kitten18]

My kids were in 2nd and 4th grade this year (I went ahead and voted the same for all categories).  I voted 0-2 hours.  We usually play at the park with our friends for about 2-2.5 hours, 1 day a week.

They are around other kids at tkd, chess, and ballet, but the park time is the only unstructured time they usually get.

I'm hoping for some more free play with the neighbors this summer (today is the last day of school for the local kids).

[Reefgazer]

I don't think I would worry over one or two incidents, especially if the situation was "difficult" in any way.  How is she generally?

 

My K-4 gets over 10 hours a week (lots of neighborhood boys, outside and rough-housing constantly.  My middle schooler gets 6-10; she is active outside the home in more structured activities, and there aren't really that many girls her age in our 'hood.

 

ETA:  I had to vote 0-2 for a high schooler, since I don't have one and the poll wouldn't let me vote until I answered.

[SilverMoon]

My 6yo would have no problems back-talking saying it like she sees it to a helicopter parent. She is DC #5 in this family, and has plenty of experience with being bossed around. She just happens to be morally opposed to sugarcoating anything but her oatmeal. (We do role-play what she should've done and attempt teaching her tact.)

 

To actually answer the question, she probably has about 12-15 hours of your requirements weekly, but it would be more like 4-5 if she didn't have older siblings. That said, I think you're over-estimating the effect more hours would actually have. It's normal 6yo behavior. My teens had even less non-sibling kid time when they were small, and their current social life is so full we have to turn down good options to make room for the most important ones.

[FriedClams]

I don't want to be rude, but I don't think a poll about other kid's play time will help you decide whether your kid has poor social skills. I would be very honest with yourself in assessing your DD. Very honest. I'll bet you can find a list of things she's wonderful at and ways she's charming and sweet when dealing with others. I'll bet you can also find a few ugly spots and weaknesses. Wel, praise the good and help her with the stuff she needs to imrove. She's little - and growing and learning. Sometimes play time helps with the shoring up - sometimes it doesn't. Practice, role playing, books about character, being specific ("Today, when you play with June, why don't you give her the first turn...." and discuss how our behavior affects others...).

 

But no, my kid's playtime schedule won't help much with the root of what you want to change. And ETA - typing on a phone. Sorry.

[Courtney_Ostaff]

More backstory: 

I had a baby in March, so we've been home a lot.  Less so than with my first, but since we weren't in a co-op this spring, my daughter has been home with just me and the baby for company most of the time. I want her to have some free-form play time, but....

 

We had a play date with friends that we've known for a couple of years, yesterday, and I was ready to pull my hair out by the end.  Granted, the other child is a high-functioning autistic kid, and granted the parent could *not* bring herself to let them play without directing their interactions....but at one point, my child was actually arguing with the other parent about what she'd said to her child (when the other parent wasn't even there to hear what my child had and had not said). I was really surprised that my child would do that. Then I was wondering...is my child being poorly socialized? Does she need more unstructured play time to practice these skills? How much is enough? *sigh*

 

Part of the problem is that the other child *never* does anything wrong.  *rolling eyes* They were in the back yard, and the other child was rolling down the hill, and my child goes, "___, stop! Stop!" and the other parent goes, "_____ can roll down the hill." The other parent then tries to pressure my child into acknowledging that she can't tell other children what to do.  So I go, "Why do you want ____ to stop?" My child goes, "He might roll into the gravel, and that hurts!!"  Instead of acknowledging that my child was trying to help her child, the other parent was all, "____ knows how to roll down a hill...."  

 

The other parent always immediately assumes that the other kids are being mean, when it's not even the case.  Furthermore, I would never presume to correct some other child's behavior unless it was a safety issue--as in, "You might want to put down the large knife." Or, "do your parents know where you are?"  Part of learning how to get along in life is dealing with people who are mean, and my kid needs to know how to deal with other children who are Not Nice. Occasionally if the other child brings a problem to me, I might disagree with him. But by feeling free to correct other children on how to interact with her child, and training *them* on the *right* way, she pretty much guarantees that her child never has to adjust his behavior. IMHO. It's gotten worse as they've gotten older

 

Earlier in the afternoon of the playdate, she was all arguing with my child, along the lines of "You didn't tell him that you wanted to go outside." My child had (and I trusted to know that),  but the other parent hadn't heard her, so she assumed that my child was (charitably) mistaken or lying.  My child was insisting that she had indeed discussed it with her child, but the other parent was not having any of it, and not until her child said, "Yes, she did mom" (he was sitting listening to this whole thing, as if it were par for the course) did the other parent back down, and then she didn't even apologize! I mean, I don't know what/how to say something to the other parent when she gets like that. I don't want my daughter to get sassy with other adults, but on the other hand...?!

 

Then, later, like today, I feel guilty that I didn't back my daughter up, and that maybe we should just stick to structured play dates with them (lessons, etc). So then I got thinking--we don't really have many (any?) local friends who are willing to do unstructured play dates that we like at all. I don't think lessons are the same thing, you know what I mean? and just seeing kids at lessons isn't the same thing as free-form social skills.  So while I think it's important, do other families think it's important? Am I overthinking this? How much of this do kids need? How much should they get? Etc

[SilverMoon]

*I'd* want to snap at that parent. :P With the information you added I would call your DD's actions standing up for herself, not sass. If she was rude about it I would point out how to do it more respectfully while encouraging her that it was right.

[SilverMoon]

Fwiw, my kids have learned much more about dealing with awkward, unruly, or just plain bad behavior from organized events than unstructured playtime. On the playground you can walk away. When the obnoxious kid is in your tent at camp or lane at swim team practice you are forced to deal with it right or else be in trouble with your scoutmaster/coach yourself.

[Arcadia]

How much of this do kids need? How much should they get? Etc

That has to do with the kid. It is not something that can be quantified.

For free form unstructured play, we go to the parks and children museums. There my boys would have to interact with peers and adults that are strangers.

 

ETA:

So far the adults in charge for my kids outside classes deal with any unruly behavior so kids don't have to deal with it.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Am I overthinking this?

 

Yes. Your child's behavior had nothing to do with how much time she generally spends socializing and everything to do with the particular circumstances of this playdate. I probably wouldn't hang out with these people anymore, as I tend to back away from parents who make get togethers feel more like a chore than a fun time. I think your daughter did fine, but then again, I'm not a fan of a kid (or any person really) who backs down when they know darn well they are right. I'm also not a fan of the double standard that kids are expected to be polite at all times even when adults are being rude to them. 

[Courtney_Ostaff]

My 6yo would have no problems back-talking saying it like she sees it to a helicopter parent. ... She just happens to be morally opposed to sugarcoating anything but her oatmeal. ...

LOL! Love it! My kid came out of the womb with tact. I don't know where she gets it!

 

 

*I'd* want to snap at that parent. :p With the information you added I would call your DD's actions standing up for herself, not sass....t I would point out how to do it more respectfully while encouraging her that it was right.

 

I'm glad it's not just me!  Part of the problem is that I'm not sure what to say to a parent like that, or how to say it!

 

Fwiw, my kids have learned much more about dealing with awkward, unruly, or just plain bad behavior from organized events than unstructured playtime. On the playground you can walk away. When the obnoxious kid is in your tent at camp or lane at swim team practice you are forced to deal with it right or else be in trouble with your scoutmaster/coach yourself.

 

That is a really good point! Love the differing perspectives.  Part of it, for me though, is that I want her to have that ability to make friends in casual situations that lead to casual get togethers later, KWIM?

 

That has to do with the kid. It is not something that can be quantified.

For free form unstructured play, we go to the parks and children museums. There my boys would have to interact with peers and adults that are strangers.

 

ETA:

So far the adults in charge for my kids outside classes deal with any unruly behavior so kids don't have to deal with it.

 

I sure wish the parks around here were populated with kids. We have great parks, and almost never have any children at them. Yeah, I mean, I don't want kids running riot in my kid's classes.

 

Yes. Your child's behavior had nothing to do with how much time she generally spends socializing and everything to do with the particular circumstances of this playdate. I probably wouldn't hang out with these people anymore, as I tend to back away from parents who make get togethers feel more like a chore than a fun time. I think your daughter did fine, but then again, I'm not a fan of a kid (or any person really) who backs down when they know darn well they are right. I'm also not a fan of the double standard that kids are expected to be polite at all times even when adults are being rude to them. 

 

Well, this is a touchy subject. I mean, I agree with you in theory, but in practice, sometimes I find it's just easier to smile and nod.  That said, I live in a very rural and very socially conservative area, so disagreeing with an adult (like my in-laws) is a Bad Thing.  I think it's ridiculous, but I've seen my MIL backhand my niece for arguing with her mother.  That sort of gratuitous rudeness to children is something else that goes on PS here that makes me shudder.  To me, it's amazing that my child is as tactful as she is -- truthfully, I don't know where she gets it, 'cause it's not from me! :)

[Alte Veste Academy]

Also, the poll wouldn't let me vote (they get wonky sometimes), but I agree that it isn't relevant because you will see a seemingly ironic dual increase of time spent with other kids and conflicts with other kids. This is not ironic at all, really. It's common sense.

 

My kids get probably 10ish hours of time playing with friends per week. That's my best guess, but it varies. Lately more like 15, probably... They play with friends at our house, at friends' houses, at the park, at the pool. They get plenty of unsupervised interaction (pool is out of earshot, generally, although obviously supervised in the strictest sense, LOL). They have all kinds of fun. Good times. But, they also have conflicts. They disagree. They get sullen. They walk away. They argue. They occasionally cry. Sometimes over valid stuff and sometimes over ridiculous stuff. They are kids. So really, I do not believe that more time with other kids would have  prevented this particular playdate problem.

 

The truth is, more time with other kids leads to more conflicts.  :laugh:   :001_tt2:  The types of conflicts will change as they get older. My kids are 11, almost 10, and 8, and they don't wrestle over Little People like they used to when they were little. LOL But they have "hurt feelings" over valid things, or just get conflicted when they want to play with a friend but want to do something different from what that friend wants to do that day. You can see they are visibly torn by this. What does this mean for our friendship!? Anyway, my point is that more time with other kids isn't a failsafe against immature interactions. Gaining maturity is. They need play experiences to learn to work things out amongst themselves, but the fact that they need help working things out isn't necessarily an indication that they are woefully unsocialized. LOL They will benefit from an adult stepping in and/or providing private counsel at different ages/stages to help them learn communication skills and navigate through changing friendships. 

[Alte Veste Academy]

Well, this is a touchy subject. I mean, I agree with you in theory, but in practice, sometimes I find it's just easier to smile and nod.  That said, I live in a very rural and very socially conservative area, so disagreeing with an adult (like my in-laws) is a Bad Thing.  I think it's ridiculous, but I've seen my MIL backhand my niece for arguing with her mother.  That sort of gratuitous rudeness to children is something else that goes on PS here that makes me shudder.  To me, it's amazing that my child is as tactful as she is -- truthfully, I don't know where she gets it, 'cause it's not from me! :)

 

Wow. I would freak out like a crazy lady if someone slapped my child. I am decidedly not tactful. 

[Courtney_Ostaff]

....The truth is, more time with other kids leads to more conflicts.  :laugh:   :001_tt2:  ...They need play experiences to learn to work things out amongst themselves, but the fact that they need help working things out isn't necessarily an indication that they are woefully unsocialized. LOL They will benefit from an adult stepping in and/or providing private counsel at different ages/stages to help them learn communication skills and navigate through changing friendships. 

 

Good point! I totally agree that they need experiences to learn to work things out amongst themselves.....  and, IIRC, at no point yesterday did either child come and ask for assistance resolving an issue.  I mean, if they wanted help, I'd provide what I thought appropriate, or if it got out of hand (tears, violence-other-than-playful-roughhousing, general nastiness to each other) I'd step in....but that didn't happen either. It's those experiences to work things out that I want for my child.  

 

Wow. I would freak out like a crazy lady if someone slapped my child. I am decidedly not tactful. 

 

My SIL didn't even blink.  I, OTOH, have shown my in-laws the door for verbally reducing my preschool age DD to a quivering heap of tears on the floor, hiding under a blanket, in less than 10 minutes of interaction.  Note that this is a kid who has a meltdown once every three or four months--she doesn't faze easily.  

[ErinE]

Earlier in the afternoon of the playdate, she was all arguing with my child, along the lines of "You didn't tell him that you wanted to go outside." My child had (and I trusted to know that),  but the other parent hadn't heard her, so she assumed that my child was (charitably) mistaken or lying.  My child was insisting that she had indeed discussed it with her child, but the other parent was not having any of it, and not until her child said, "Yes, she did mom" (he was sitting listening to this whole thing, as if it were par for the course) did the other parent back down, and then she didn't even apologize! I mean, I don't know what/how to say something to the other parent when she gets like that. I don't want my daughter to get sassy with other adults, but on the other hand...?!

 

Then, later, like today, I feel guilty that I didn't back my daughter up, and that maybe we should just stick to structured play dates with them (lessons, etc). So then I got thinking--we don't really have many (any?) local friends who are willing to do unstructured play dates that we like at all. I don't think lessons are the same thing, you know what I mean? and just seeing kids at lessons isn't the same thing as free-form social skills.  So while I think it's important, do other families think it's important? Am I overthinking this? How much of this do kids need? How much should they get? Etc

 

 

I think you need to limit your interaction with this family. I would not be okay with another parent constantly correcting my 6-year old when I'm right there. I don't think your daughter was being sassy; she was defending herself from unfair accusations.

 

At six, my kids' playtime with friends was unstructured. I'd sit outside to make sure no one was doing anything dangerous, but I wouldn't intervene unless it was a safety issue.

[Walking-Iris]

It's hard for me to get a clear idea of what happened in your situation. But my oldest ds is on the spectrum (Asperger's) and I can tell you that at times it can be extremely difficult to not helicopter. Especially when they are younger. (How old was the child? About 6 or so like yours?)

 

Already, a parent with an ASD kiddo is intensely aware of how difficult it is and likely will continue to be for their child to make friends. Already, an ASD parent is intensely aware of how little NT kiddos are actually taught about hanging out with an ASD kiddo. 

 

It sounds as though the mom in question was simply helicoptering a bit (which is really understandable to some degrees with ASD). And it sounds as though your dd may not have been experienced (possibly) with a helicopter Mom. It also sounds that the Mom is concerned with *her* child's social skills.

As all ASD parents are to a lot of degrees.

 

About the kids being mean situation. Honestly, I have personally witnessed kids acting in a way that could be perceived as insensitive to a child with autism, and yet it's obvious they don't really know they are, they're simply confused and inexperienced. I've witnessed parents doing nothing about it (possibly because they are inexperienced and feeling awkward as well?) It isn't being mean. But it is a frustrating place to be in as a parent to see other children not understanding your child's behavior. Things no one else might think of, we do. "If that child moves those cars out of line, he could have  a tantrum, it could escalate, it can be hard to get balanced again. BUT he needs to learn to play with and share, BUT he's going to freak out! And this child has no clue, and then the parent might judge me and my child for the not sharing, or for the tantrum" and so on and so on goes the never ending thought wheel of the ASD parent.

 

I would just try to keep in mind that being a parent with a child on the spectrum (or any other SN) can be a really sad place for the parents to be at times. Keep in mind that they know their children won't just play, NT children won't just be sensitive, NT parents won't just understand what they are going through. It's not easy. So I'd be a bit mor egracious to the other mother.

 

I have no idea if any of this applies to your situation.

 

As far as the backtalking. I would say that *if* your dd spoke to an adult in a way that you were uncomfortable with, then you need to address that. It does no good to analyze the situation and such. If my child behaves in a way that I'm not okay with, regardless of whatever else was going on, then I'll address that. I also try to teach my children that there are different rules at different houses, and to respect that. 

 

 

The amount of time we hang out with non-family members, adults or other children, varies from week to week, and from season to season.

 

I'm sort of freaking out right now because this weekend a babysitter will sit with my children and her little sister (12 years old) will be over as well. I'm beyond a nervous wreck about the social interactions, positive or negative, or lack thereof, that could happen between my own Aspie and this NT child. And I won't be here to help him navigate. 

 

ETA: I hope you don't think about limiting contact with the family. What a sad thought for a parent and the ASD child to feel that there's one more possible social contact gone. Trust me, I know from experience. It's a hard place to be when people don't understand your child and situation, so they limit contact. 

 

The "lying" thing is a bit off. That's odd. I've certainly corrected other children, even with parents right there. Maybe she was worried your dd wasn't interested in playing with the child any longer?

 

I've learned a long time ago that I can't force other children to like or want to hang out with my child. I've also learned a long time ago that parents tend to gravitate towards children their children like to be around. Hard spot for an ASD child to be in.

[Hunter]

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread, but these are my views on socialization.

 

Other children are like candy. Children love them, but too much of a good thing makes them rotten.

 

We are raising children to be adults. They can totally pass over the whole learning child social skills and start on their adult skills.

 

Tweens who do not socialize with other tweens are awkward by TWEEN standards, but it's such a short time, and such an unimportant thing, that who cares?

 

People need people. That's all.

[Alte Veste Academy]

It's hard for me to get a clear idea of what happened in your situation. But my oldest ds is on the spectrum (Asperger's) and I can tell you that at times it can be extremely difficult to not helicopter. Especially when they are younger. (How old was the child? About 6 or so like yours?)

 

Already, a parent with an ASD kiddo is intensely aware of how difficult it is and likely will continue to be for their child to make friends. Already, an ASD parent is intensely aware of how little NT kiddos are actually taught about hanging out with an ASD kiddo. 

 

It sounds as though the mom in question was simply helicoptering a bit (which is really understandable to some degrees with ASD). And it sounds as though your dd may not have been experienced (possibly) with a helicopter Mom. It also sounds that the Mom is concerned with *her* child's social skills.

As all ASD parents are to a lot of degrees.

 

About the kids being mean situation. Honestly, I have personally witnessed kids acting in a way that could be perceived as insensitive to a child with autism, and yet it's obvious they don't really know they are, they're simply confused and inexperienced. I've witnessed parents doing nothing about it (possibly because they are inexperienced and feeling awkward as well?) It isn't being mean. But it is a frustrating place to be in as a parent to see other children not understanding your child's behavior. Things no one else might think of, we do. "If that child moves those cars out of line, he could have  a tantrum, it could escalate, it can be hard to get balanced again. BUT he needs to learn to play with and share, BUT he's going to freak out! And this child has no clue, and then the parent might judge me and my child for the not sharing, or for the tantrum" and so on and so on goes the never ending thought wheel of the ASD parent.

 

I would just try to keep in mind that being a parent with a child on the spectrum (or any other SN) can be a really sad place for the parents to be at times. Keep in mind that they know their children won't just play, NT children won't just be sensitive, NT parents won't just understand what they are going through. It's not easy. So I'd be a bit mor egracious to the other mother.

 

I have no idea if any of this applies to your situation.

 

As far as the backtalking. I would say that *if* your dd spoke to an adult in a way that you were uncomfortable with, then you need to address that. It does no good to analyze the situation and such. If my child behaves in a way that I'm not okay with, regardless of whatever else was going on, then I'll address that. I also try to teach my children that there are different rules at different houses, and to respect that. 

 

 

The amount of time we hang out with non-family members, adults or other children, varies from week to week, and from season to season.

 

I'm sort of freaking out right now because this weekend a babysitter will sit with my children and her little sister (12 years old) will be over as well. I'm beyond a nervous wreck about the social interactions, positive or negative, or lack thereof, that could happen between my own Aspie and this NT child. And I won't be here to help him navigate. 

 

ETA: I hope you don't think about limiting contact with the family. What a sad thought for a parent and the ASD child to feel that there's one more possible social contact gone. Trust me, I know from experience. It's a hard place to be when people don't understand your child and situation, so they limit contact. 

 

The "lying" thing is a bit off. That's odd. I've certainly corrected other children, even with parents right there. Maybe she was worried your dd wasn't interested in playing with the child any longer?

 

Speaking for myself, the helicoptering is what would bother me the least. I understand the need for it. However, I would be bothered by insensitivity to my own child's feelings. If my kid constantly felt like her feelings were being pooh-poohed or that she was always getting the short end of the stick, always the one taking the blame, always getting the lecture, always in the wrong, etc., well then that would be that. I would sincerely hope that a mom who advocates all the time for sensitivity to the needs of her own child would also be sensitive to the needs of her child's friends. If mom is helicoptering/inserting herself into the kids' interactions in an effort to aid the friendship, I understand that. But at the same time, she needs to show as much sensitivity for the play date's feelings and concerns as she does for her own child's or the relationship is doomed. 

[Walking-Iris]

Speaking for myself, the helicoptering is what would bother me the least. I understand the need for it. However, I would be bothered by insensitivity to my own child's feelings. If my kid constantly felt like her feelings were being pooh-poohed or that she was always getting the short end of the stick, always the one taking the blame, always getting the lecture, always in the wrong, etc., well then that would be that. I would sincerely hope that a mom who advocates all the time for sensitivity to the needs of her own child would also be sensitive to the needs of her child's friends. If mom is helicoptering/inserting herself into the kids' interactions in an effort to aid the friendship, I understand that. But at the same time, she needs to show as much sensitivity for the play date's feelings and concerns as she does for her own child's or the relationship is doomed. 

 

And I absolutely agree with you! :)

[SilverMoon]

That is a really good point! Love the differing perspectives. Part of it, for me though, is that I want her to have that ability to make friends in casual situations that lead to casual get togethers later, KWIM?

Ah! I'd still have to say don't overlook organized activities. :) My kids' closest friends are the kids with whom they share common interests, and they found them through scouts, dance, and swim team.

[MomatHWTK]

It's hard for me to get a clear idea of what happened in your situation. But my oldest ds is on the spectrum (Asperger's) and I can tell you that at times it can be extremely difficult to not helicopter. Especially when they are younger. (How old was the child? About 6 or so like yours?)

 

Already, a parent with an ASD kiddo is intensely aware of how difficult it is and likely will continue to be for their child to make friends. Already, an ASD parent is intensely aware of how little NT kiddos are actually taught about hanging out with an ASD kiddo. 

 

It sounds as though the mom in question was simply helicoptering a bit (which is really understandable to some degrees with ASD). And it sounds as though your dd may not have been experienced (possibly) with a helicopter Mom. It also sounds that the Mom is concerned with *her* child's social skills.

As all ASD parents are to a lot of degrees....

:iagree:

[MistyMountain]

My kids get a lot in the summer. When I get together with a friend we let the kids play. We don't direct them. My kids also play on a regular basis with the neighbor kids. In the winter there isn't many kids outside so they get less but they do at least on a weekly basis then when I get together with a friend or arrange a playdate. I do think it is a good thing for kids. That said my kids are still challenging kids who don't always act like perfect little angels in social situations.

[Soror]

Wow. I would freak out like a crazy lady if someone slapped my child. I am decidedly not tactful. 

Totally. I live in a rural and conservative area myself but I've never had anyone even attempt to lay a hand on my kids. I have stood up for my kids when needed in situations like you describe. If someone raised a hand to my kid they would find me in their face real &*^% quick and unless there were profuse apologies they wouldn't be seeing me again. 

 

To answer your original question most of the playtime my kids get is with each other. I don't think there is a big correlation here.

[Walking-Iris]

Totally. I live in a rural and conservative area myself but I've never had anyone even attempt to lay a hand on my kids. I have stood up for my kids when needed in situations like you describe. If someone raised a hand to my kid they would find me in their face real &*^% quick and unless there were profuse apologies they wouldn't be seeing me again. 

 

To answer your original question most of the playtime my kids get is with each other. I don't think there is a big correlation here.

 

Absolutely!!! This seems to be a totally different scenario. TBH I wouldn't mind another parent or adult correcting my child, BUT physical corrections is an automatic out, also tone of voice is important.

 

If someone were being rude, belittling, or sarcastic, snarky, or passive aggressive etc. I would not be cool with it. I've had this happen on more than one occasion, and believe me, that person knows how displeased I am with them. 

 

But say my kid started climbing on someone's couch, and that parent asked them to get down, I'm okay with that. My kid would likely get a look from me to reinforce it. Again tone of voice is important.

 

But as I read the OP's post closer, I may not be okay with a mini lecture, but again I would have to hear tone of voice. 

 

I have an example from just the other night. A friend was over. My dd was pushing against our fence and it was wobbling a bit. There are repairs needed. Our friend was closer to her than us and he (gently) asked her not to push on the fence. She looked at him, and he went on that she could get hurt if it fell, and cost us some money in damage. 

 

Not *exactly* how I would have handled it (I try not to lecture or explain in so many words to young children usually---keep it short and sweet!), but he was quicker than we were and she accepted his small gentle lecture and went on her way. Now if he had yelled or reacted loudly and negatively, I would have to step in.

 

There's another person who I have had words with because he has raised his voice about things that were not important at all. 

 

This goes back to the socialization thing I think. My children know that it is important to listen to other adults. BUT, and this is a really big but, they also know that adults need to be cool too!!! I have told them over and over that no adult has the right to make them feel less than, or scared, and so on. 

 

I try to surround my children with adults that I trust to correct them if they need that guidance. 

 

On the flip side of that is the parent who undermines....if I ask my kid not to climb, or jump on, or whatever, I don't really want another parent saying "oh they're fine." <shudder>

[srs]

I think Walking Iris said it so beautifully: it can be a sad to place to be as a parent with a special needs child. Mine is not on the spectrum, and I hope I don't helicopter, but do understand that she is probably sad, and overreacting, and might even know it but not know how else to cope. Which is not fair to you or your daughter, but it might help you to think of it with that perspective. Her son is likely to have lifelong struggles with social interactions, and regardless of how much unstructured time your daughter has, she is likely to be fine. It can be very hard to watch neurotypical children play when yours isn't. A member of my support group said that she has stopped going to the park because watching the other children makes her too sad. I understand the sentiment.

[RootAnn]

I think it would be tough for my 6 yr old to handle such a situation as beautifully as you describe yours doing so. I know that sometimes *I* don't handle such situations well. I don't expect my kids to do so perfectly. When my ds#1 has his "coach pitch" (baseball) games, my other kids often play on a little play area with other area kids they don't know. It sometimes leads to conflict when my ds#2 is going down the slide and a bigger kid is trying to climb *up* the slide as it is a blind slide (lots of twists from top to bottom) and my kids are taught NOT to climb up because someone coming down could hit them. Thus, when my kid slams into one climbing up and gets yelled at for using the play equipment properly, he is *very* confused & upset. My other kids tend to remove themselves and him from the situation rather than confront the child causing the problem or trying to come up with a compromise solution. To be honest, that's what I would do in an unfamiliar situation (remove myself), so I understand. While I wish they would stick up for their little brother, I can't fault them for just getting the heck out of there (with him).

 

My kids have a lot of unstructured play time with their sibs, but not much on a *regular* basis with non-family members. They don't deal with badly behaved kids very often. When one of those families moved into our neighborhood, we ended up limiting contact between them because of *ahem* incidents. (And when my kid went over with me to apologize for his part in the kerfluffle, the father was as ill-mannered as the children!) So, sometimes limiting contact is a good option. (Sorry W-I!)

[kiwik]

I don't think the play date you described really counts as unstructured play. Perhaps next time you should arrange a specific activity for the kids to do then go home.

 

I probably should hover more. Ds5 has a very low frustration threshold and will respond violently to what the other child meant as innocent teasing. Yesterday he attacked one of his friends at school because the friend was teasing him by moving his bag round. Another parent saw and told the teacher as attacked the other child because they both wanted the same coat hook (as just wanted his bag put back where it was) and the teacher got all bent out of shape because ds denied it. I see her point and it was unacceptable to resort to violence. But he is 5, it was the end of a very long week and he is far more sensitive to things like that than most. He isn't diagnosed but he has behavoir traits that are common in our family which also has a lot of aspergers.

 

But most importantly why would an adult get in a confrontation with a five year old. I picked this teacher because i thought she had more sense. She just couldn't get that in the heat and upset of the moment ds simply isn't able to admit he is wrong but will in a few minutes and also that to him he wasn't lying because he wasn't fighting over the hook but trying to reclaim what was his. I liked the system of having labelled hooks she had 2 years ago bother it.

 

Sorry to derail your thread but i feel better now.

[...................]

One of my kids has mild aspergers and I think on that basis alone, you should judge absolutely nothing by this encounter.

 

My son is extremely literal, extremely intelligent, extremely black and white, and does not understand social cues very well. He believes thT truth and winning rule over all, and therefore is unlikely to ever "let something drop" or give way. Additionally my particular Aspie is also a "lion" personality and very strong willed. Paired with someone who either

 

A is also strong willed

Or

B who is extremely "big picture" and not likely to speak in clear literal terms

 

When he was younger, There could be a lot of frustration.

 

I'm not saying your daughter doesn't need more play time. Only children have to get out to learn giving, sharing, putting others first etcetera.

 

However this particulR boy should not be your bar by which you judge how your dd is doing.

[Farrar]

Ah! I'd still have to say don't overlook organized activities. :) My kids' closest friends are the kids with whom they share common interests, and they found them through scouts, dance, and swim team.

 

I agree.  We made our best friends through activities that are at least somewhat structured.  I particularly think that certain activities, such as good co-ops, community league type sports teams, book clubs, and academic teams like Destination Imagination or Lego First are good places to make friends.  For us at least, the ideal is the activity that has room for free play afterward (kids playing on the adjacent playground post-soccer game, kids hanging out and chatting after a book club, etc.).

 

To me, if you're feeling the need for social time, I usually think that starting something regular with a structure (but with time to play afterward or before) will get you farther than playdates here and there, especially with a family that you don't seem to mesh with very well.

 

I think there's a huge value in having good friends and having unstructured play time with them sometimes.  However, sometimes the structure is what helps kids know how to act when the time becomes unstructured.

 

I will add though...  I don't think any of this correlates with "back talk" or politeness.  That's just a whole other thing.  I agree with others who said that I have zero problem with a child standing up for herself so the whole term "back talk" doesn't sit well with me.  She told the truth and wasn't believed.  Then she expressed an opinion and it wasn't ever really addressed.  There's nothing wrong with any of that, even if maybe she could work on how she presented herself.  But let's be real, what young child couldn't stand to work on that?  But as to polite behavior, I've met kids who are pretty socially isolated from other kids with great manners and kids who are very social all the time with terrible ones.  These things just aren't related.

 

The benefit of having friends and open play time is that you develop a totally different type of social skills - the ability to read emotions, understand how to compromise, deal with defeat and frustration socially, how to negotiate.

[MotherGoose]

 

More backstory:

I had a baby in March, so we've been home a lot. Less so than with my first, but since we weren't in a co-op this spring, my daughter has been home with just me and the baby for company most of the time. I want her to have some free-form play time, but....

 

We had a play date with friends that we've known for a couple of years, yesterday, and I was ready to pull my hair out by the end. Granted, the other child is a high-functioning autistic kid, and granted the parent could *not* bring herself to let them play without directing their interactions....but at one point, my child was actually arguing with the other parent about what she'd said to her child (when the other parent wasn't even there to hear what my child had and had not said). I was really surprised that my child would do that. Then I was wondering...is my child being poorly socialized? Does she need more unstructured play time to practice these skills? How much is enough? *sigh*

 

Part of the problem is that the other child *never* does anything wrong. *rolling eyes* They were in the back yard, and the other child was rolling down the hill, and my child goes, "___, stop! Stop!" and the other parent goes, "_____ can roll down the hill." The other parent then tries to pressure my child into acknowledging that she can't tell other children what to do. So I go, "Why do you want ____ to stop?" My child goes, "He might roll into the gravel, and that hurts!!" Instead of acknowledging that my child was trying to help her child, the other parent was all, "____ knows how to roll down a hill...."

 

The other parent always immediately assumes that the other kids are being mean, when it's not even the case. Furthermore, I would never presume to correct some other child's behavior unless it was a safety issue--as in, "You might want to put down the large knife." Or, "do your parents know where you are?" Part of learning how to get along in life is dealing with people who are mean, and my kid needs to know how to deal with other children who are Not Nice. Occasionally if the other child brings a problem to me, I might disagree with him. But by feeling free to correct other children on how to interact with her child, and training *them* on the *right* way, she pretty much guarantees that her child never has to adjust his behavior. IMHO. It's gotten worse as they've gotten older

 

Earlier in the afternoon of the playdate, she was all arguing with my child, along the lines of "You didn't tell him that you wanted to go outside." My child had (and I trusted to know that), but the other parent hadn't heard her, so she assumed that my child was (charitably) mistaken or lying. My child was insisting that she had indeed discussed it with her child, but the other parent was not having any of it, and not until her child said, "Yes, she did mom" (he was sitting listening to this whole thing, as if it were par for the course) did the other parent back down, and then she didn't even apologize! I mean, I don't know what/how to say something to the other parent when she gets like that. I don't want my daughter to get sassy with other adults, but on the other hand...?!

 

Then, later, like today, I feel guilty that I didn't back my daughter up, and that maybe we should just stick to structured play dates with them (lessons, etc). So then I got thinking--we don't really have many (any?) local friends who are willing to do unstructured play dates that we like at all. I don't think lessons are the same thing, you know what I mean? and just seeing kids at lessons isn't the same thing as free-form social skills. So while I think it's important, do other families think it's important? Am I overthinking this? How much of this do kids need? How much should they get? Etc

Whether or not your child needs more unstructured play is a separate issue. This mom is the problem, not you or your daughter. She's arguing with a 6 year old! I would look for some other friends :) Hugs!

[Jenny in Florida]

I can't vote, because I no longer have little ones. And once they get to be in to their teens, the idea of "unstructured play" is not terribly meaningful.

 

When my kids were little, we participated in a homeschool group or two. We went to park days most weeks, when my kids would spend most of the day running around like maniacs with other kids. I used to tell them that they got the entire week's worth of recess on that one day. Other than that, most of their playtime was on the church playground. 

 

By the time my son was middle school aged (My daughter is a whole other kind of creature, and so I'm mostly leaving her out of this.), we had moved into a neighborhood where there were some kids roughly his age. So, he was able to just go outside and be social for several hours a week. It was great for him.

 

At some point, though, both of my kids began finding most of their social connections and "play" time during and around scheduled activities. Both of mine have been involved in theatre and performing arts, and that has allowed them to get to know other kids who enjoy performing, too. They chat and goof off during downtime at rehearsals. They meet up for lunch before or dinner after shows. That kind of thing. 

 

Each of mine has also been involved in church activities, including youth group as soon as they are old enough for that. And, again, a lot of socializing happens during and around meetings and activities. 

 

My son has sung with a choir for the last seven years, and, in addition to weekly rehearsals, the group has traveled together in-state, domestically and internationally. They arrive at rehearsal a few minutes early, stay a few minutes late and socialize in the church's courtyard during the snack break. They carpool so they can chat on the drive. Many of them text and call each other during the week. They hang out in little clumps during the receptions that follow each performance They've done beach trips and end-of-year parties.

 

Nowadays, my 16-year-old son sees friends each week during choir, at church and at the dance studio (where he spends about 20 hours a week). Once or twice a month, he has some kind of purely social event that allows him to get together with friends outside of those activities. Recently, he's attended one friend's school choir concert, after which a few guys went out for a snack and chatted. He attended two graduation parties, one for two girls he knows through choir and another for a girl at his dance studio. Just this past weekend, one of his friends came to his dance recital, after which my son hung out at his friend's house and then both families went to dinner. Last month, we went out of town to two different dance competitions, which had us staying at hotels, hanging out in the swimming pools and on the beach with the rest of his dance team, going out to lunches and dinners with the group . . .

 

The point of my babbling is that, for my kids, involvement in regularly-scheduled activities that match their interests has provided a foundation for social connections and socializing. And it's tough to count up hours of "unstructured play," since that mostly gets tucked into the context of other things.

[Tohru]

NM

[swellmomma]

I tried to vote but couldn't since it varies wildly.  My dd6 has over 10 hours a week unstructured with her best friend up the street (she calls Mondays and Wednesdays "J____ days" because those are the 2 days she plays pretty much from 10am-6pm non-stop).  Plus the 3 hours a day she is with me at afterschool care playing with all the kids.  ds10 gets zero hours, he has no friends to play with.  ds15 is usually zero with the occasional 2-3 here and there, for him it was better when the teen drop in center was open but it is closed for summer break now.  when it was open he would get 4 hours per week, plus his 1 structured activity with friends (cadets).  dd14 was like ds15 for kids her age, plus another 4 or so hours a week with random kids in the neighborhood, but they are all at least 5 years younger than her.  

As for this playdate OP, it was a one off day for your dd.  Remind her of the rules and see what happens.  I know it seems the other mom was all up in their business, but if it was anything like a friend of dd14s it was needed.  That girl has fairly high functioning autism but for years either mom/dad or the therapist working with her virtually dictated playdates.  She needed the constant cues from them or she did not know how to play.  It actually helped dd14 quite a lot back then too.  Neither child (friend or dd) that their play was so micromanaged.  Skip forward now 9 years, and the 2 girls play together beautifully and no longer have it micromanaged.  It really was for a good 3-4 years before autistic girl could actually play with someone, carry on a proper conversation etc.  So while it may seem like mom was the problem don't jump to that conclusion, sometimes the autistic child really does need that much interaction with mom to have a successful playdate.  Remind your dd of you rules/expectations and try again.  

ETA: Now as for the backstory stuff you added later, the hill incident I agree with the mom, it's not up to your child to tell him to stop when he is doing nothing wrong.  You put that you rolled your eyes that he can do nothing wrong, but in this case he wasn't. He was rolling down a hill and was clearly allowed to.  This wasn't a case of him doing something actually wrong that his parents allowed anyway, your dd told him to stop, the mom said her kid could do it and asked why she felt he shouldn't.  The fact is if she had a worry about her kid rolling she would have said something, that is not her kid never being wrong.  The arguing on the other hand the mom acted like a child, she shouldn't have been arguing about it and when she realized her mistake she should have apologized for it.  That said, I would like to err on the side of caution and say perhaps mom was a frustrated/frazzled with how the playdate was going just as you were and responded in a way she normally wouldn't.  Doesn't make it right but does give hope for future playdates.

I don't know if your dd needs more work on social skills.  A 1 off playdate with this family is not enough to determine if your child does, if the mother is always like that, etc.  I would like to assume the best out of both of them and hope the next one it better.

[Ausmumof3]

I get this from time to time.... The oh no my kid did something wrong oh no must be cause they are homeschooled must go to a million play dates to get them some social skills feeling. Then I realise I just need to correct that one thing and move on...

 

That said I wasn't in the situation but I do sometimes get a bit of the dynamic with girls trying to tell my son what he cannot do and him getting annoyed by it. I'm not saying your dd was being bossy but it can be a thing... I always back up house rules like no climbing on furniture etc in someone else's house but in terms of safety stuff in parks etc I make rules for my own kids don't expect others to follow them and don't necessarily expect my kids to follow another mums rules unless they are expressly under that parents supervision. I think of tree climbing and hill rolling in general as just kid stuff. Obviously I didn't see that particular hill so I have no idea about the specific situation.

 

This might have absolutely no bearing on you at all, and it might just be because I have recently been in a situation where I kept correcting my kids based on another 6 year old girls comments about his behaviour until I realised that most of the time there were two sides to the story and this wasn't just happening with my son but other kids as well. The mum perceived her as very reponsible and in a way she was but it was a little bit irritating too.

[Arcadia]

That said I wasn't in the situation but I do sometimes get a bit of the dynamic with girls trying to tell my son what he cannot do and him getting annoyed by it.

It's not a girl thing. My younger can be just as "bossy" in a "mother hen" tone of voice. I have to remind him to MYOB.

[Ausmumof3]

Totally, just for some reason most of the kids we've been with lately have girls, but yes my toddler is like this and he is a boy!!!

[phathui5]

Having read your post #14, that doesn't sound like a fun playdate at all. I wouldn't use that one experience to assess your dd's behavior.

[SKL]

I can't read all of the replies, but your clarifying post was interesting.  Nobody is perfect here, but I would not necessarily fault your daughter for "talking back" when she feels falsely accused or misunderstood.  It depends on the voice, but the fact that she is trying to articulate and clarify her view of things is a good thing.

 

The rolling down the hill thing and similar - I'd tell your daughter that it is OK to mention the risk one time, but other people get to decide how they want to deal with that risk (to themselves).  If she wants to change what someone is doing, making a positive suggestion "want to do x now?" is better than "no / don't" and if all else fails, she has a right to just not participate after a point.  Though in a guest/host situation (at that age), it is polite to do what the other person wants roughly half of the time.  As I tell my kids, "you can do anything [however tedious] for ___ minutes."

 

About the "yes I did tell him" type stuff, I recommend that you talk to her about how to calmly agree to disagree and move on.  It isn't worth fighting about a minor misunderstanding.  Nobody likes to be misunderstood, but it happens to everyone at times.

 

All of this is a process and I certainly wouldn't lose sleep over the behaviors you described.

[Joyful Journeys]

I can't read all of the replies, but your clarifying post was interesting. Nobody is perfect here, but I would not necessarily fault your daughter for "talking back" when she feels falsely accused or misunderstood. It depends on the voice, but the fact that she is trying to articulate and clarify her view of things is a good thing.

I agree with this especially and a lot of the other sentiments here. Just to offer the flip side, my incredibly sensitive and shy daughter (6.5) would have probably fell into a ball of tears after the first or second encounter with that mom. There is no way she would have had the courage to say anything and would have worried for hours later after it was over what she did wrong. I spend a lot of my days trying to build her up, encouraging her to use her voice and be confident in herself and that if things don't go well, brush it off and move on. I'd say your dd is on the right path already.

[maize]

It does sound like this particular parent-child combination are challenging to have playdates with.

 

More generally, I do think it is good for children to have free play time with other children, though your poll only asked about non sibling play time and I don't think there are huge benefits that can be derived only from playing with non siblings. I have five kids fairly close in age, and most of their play time is with each other. If I had an only child or children far apart in age I think I would work harder to cultivate some close friendships with regular play time.

[Walking-Iris]

It does sound like this particular parent-child combination are challenging to have playdates with.

 

More generally, I do think it is good for children to have free play time with other children, though your poll only asked about non sibling play time and I don't think there are huge benefits that can be derived only from playing with non siblings. I have five kids fairly close in age, and most of their play time is with each other. If I had an only child or children far apart in age I think I would work harder to cultivate some close friendships with regular play time.

 

My kiddos learn more playing with their siblings than non-family children. Mainly because they are better with non-family members in regard to manners, sharing etc. There's way more bickering, teasing, goofiness, manipulation, tattling, frustration, and so on with each other, because they are related. They let the guard down and get more real with their siblings. Which gives me a lot of moments to try to teach them things about interacting with each other. Unfortunately. ;)

[Courtney_Ostaff]

...The truth is, more time with other kids leads to more conflicts.  :laugh:   :001_tt2:  The types of conflicts will change as they get older....They need play experiences to learn to work things out amongst themselves, but the fact that they need help working things out isn't necessarily an indication that they are woefully unsocialized. LOL They will benefit from an adult stepping in and/or providing private counsel at different ages/stages to help them learn communication skills and navigate through changing friendships. 

 

That's a totally good point. Upon reflection, what I found so frustrating about this playdate was that there were no conflicts that they couldn't have worked out by themselves. Lots of times, she would just stop our conversation and ask the kids what they were doing, as if they had to provide a report on their activities! They weren't arguing, they weren't even disagreeing, there was no conflict--she just wanted her son to report on what they were doing--and we were sitting right there!

 

It's hard for me to get a clear idea of what happened in your situation. But my oldest ds is on the spectrum (Asperger's) and I can tell you that at times it can be extremely difficult to not helicopter. Especially when they are younger. (How old was the child? About 6 or so like yours?)

 

Already, a parent with an ASD kiddo is intensely aware of how difficult it is and likely will continue to be for their child to make friends. Already, an ASD parent is intensely aware of how little NT kiddos are actually taught about hanging out with an ASD kiddo. 

 

... But it is a frustrating place to be in as a parent to see other children not understanding your child's behavior....I would just try to keep in mind that being a parent with a child on the spectrum (or any other SN) can be a really sad place for the parents to be at times. Keep in mind that they know their children won't just play, NT children won't just be sensitive, NT parents won't just understand what they are going through. It's not easy. So I'd be a bit mor egracious to the other mother....ETA: I hope you don't think about limiting contact with the family. What a sad thought for a parent and the ASD child to feel that there's one more possible social contact gone. Trust me, I know from experience. It's a hard place to be when people don't understand your child and situation, so they limit contact. 

 

I really appreciate your response.  It's so difficult for me to talk to the other parent about this, because the one time we had a conversation about the affect of ASD, she actually got so upset that she abruptly ended the playdate. I have other friends with ASD kids, kids who are much more affected than her child, and I don't observe this constant mediation of interaction with other children--and they're willing to talk to me about what they're worried about in terms of social interaction.

 

In this case, the other child is six, but they've known each other since they were four. They've had hours-long unstructured playdates in the past--about once a week all summer, last summer. The other child's parent actually volunteered at their private preschool and kindergarten as a full-time aide for 6 months because she felt like her child was wasn't getting enough/appropriate attention from the teacher. It's not like we don't have experience hanging out with them, or that my daughter doesn't have experience in dealing with this mother.

 

It bothers me to think that NT kids have to be "taught" or (in the other mother's parlance) "trained" to hang out with their kids. That puts the onus for the entire situation on the other child(ren), and I don't think that's fair--or in any child's best interest, long term.  My child is no angel, but when we're at other people's houses, we play what they want to play--and when we have guests, we play what they want to play. And when we don't want to play any more, we go home.

 

Perhaps if the other mother was willing to discuss this with me, I'd feel less favorable about limiting contact, but this constant interference in their play drives me bonkers.  

 

Speaking for myself, the helicoptering is what would bother me the least. I understand the need for it. However, I would be bothered by insensitivity to my own child's feelings. If my kid constantly felt like her feelings were being pooh-poohed or that she was always getting the short end of the stick, always the one taking the blame, always getting the lecture, always in the wrong, etc., well then that would be that. I would sincerely hope that a mom who advocates all the time for sensitivity to the needs of her own child would also be sensitive to the needs of her child's friends. If mom is helicoptering/inserting herself into the kids' interactions in an effort to aid the friendship, I understand that. But at the same time, she needs to show as much sensitivity for the play date's feelings and concerns as she does for her own child's or the relationship is doomed. 

 

I think that this is part of what irritates me.  I know she's the mom, and that she values her own child, but the focus is always on her child and what her child wants and/or needs.  She has these rules for how the kids are allowed to play, and she doesn't hesitate to impose them on my child--even at my house, in front of me! Without prior discussion! When it isn't a health or safety issue, and the kids are not in conflict! I hadn't realized until you all discussed this how much it irritates me.

 

 

I think Walking Iris said it so beautifully: it can be a sad to place to be as a parent with a special needs child. Mine is not on the spectrum, and I hope I don't helicopter, but do understand that she is probably sad, and overreacting, and might even know it but not know how else to cope. Which is not fair to you or your daughter, but it might help you to think of it with that perspective. Her son is likely to have lifelong struggles with social interactions, and regardless of how much unstructured time your daughter has, she is likely to be fine. It can be very hard to watch neurotypical children play when yours isn't. A member of my support group said that she has stopped going to the park because watching the other children makes her too sad. I understand the sentiment.

 

That made me stop and think a bit, and I really appreciate the honesty.  But, I don't expect her child to be an angel, or behave beautifully. And, remember, he's really high-functioning--so much so that she's sending him to private school in part because the public school system and the local autism support center wouldn't provide him with services because he's so high-functioning.  There are different degrees of issues.

 

I think it would be tough for my 6 yr old to handle such a situation as beautifully as you describe yours doing so.... My other kids tend to remove themselves and him from the situation rather than confront the child causing the problem or trying to come up with a compromise solution. To be honest, that's what I would do in an unfamiliar situation (remove myself), so I understand. ...My kids have a lot of unstructured play time with their sibs, but not much on a *regular* basis with non-family members. They don't deal with badly behaved kids very often. When one of those families moved into our neighborhood, we ended up limiting contact between them because of *ahem* incidents. (And when my kid went over with me to apologize for his part in the kerfluffle, the father was as ill-mannered as the children!) So, sometimes limiting contact is a good option. (Sorry W-I!)

 

Thank you for the compliment.  I tend to remove us from the situation as well--especially when it's my child that's misbehaving. I have picked her up and carried her off because she was the one climbing up the slide. ;) She was so angry and embarrassed that it never happened again.  But, I think it's important to hang with non-family members because they're less likely to overlook poor behavior. IMHO.  That said, I certainly understand limiting contact with poorly behaved children!

 

I don't think the play date you described really counts as unstructured play. Perhaps next time you should arrange a specific activity for the kids to do then go home. I probably should hover more. Ds5 has a very low frustration threshold and will respond violently to what the other child meant as innocent teasing. ... But most importantly why would an adult get in a confrontation with a five year old. ...

 

Yes, perhaps that's part of what irritates me so much. If you want to run a PE class, go for it.   :)  I think we're just going to do specific activities from now on.  I wouldn't even be upset if that happened to my daughter--I'd put some of the onus on my child not to tease this particular kid anymore, but also, kids have meltdowns. It happens. Life goes on.  I do not understand the point of arguing with a child, though. *rolling eyes*

 

 

To me, if you're feeling the need for social time, I usually think that starting something regular with a structure (but with time to play afterward or before) will get you farther than playdates here and there, especially with a family that you don't seem to mesh with very well.... I agree with others who said that I have zero problem with a child standing up for herself so the whole term "back talk" doesn't sit well with me.  She told the truth and wasn't believed.  Then she expressed an opinion and it wasn't ever really addressed.  There's nothing wrong with any of that, even if maybe she could work on how she presented herself.  But let's be real, what young child couldn't stand to work on that?  But as to polite behavior, I've met kids who are pretty socially isolated from other kids with great manners and kids who are very social all the time with terrible ones.  These things just aren't related. The benefit of having friends and open play time is that you develop a totally different type of social skills - the ability to read emotions, understand how to compromise, deal with defeat and frustration socially, how to negotiate.

 

That seems to be a pretty common opinion, and as a friend reminded me, my child likely wouldn't get much unstructured time if she was in PS.  It's not like HS creates this situation, or that PS automatically creates kids with good social skills. You know, I didn't see my child's behavior like that, but you're absolutely right. FWIW, upon recollection, I'm impressed at how well my child didn't lose her temper. :)

 

As for this playdate OP, it was a one off day for your dd.  Remind her of the rules and see what happens.  I know it seems the other mom was all up in their business, but if it was anything like a friend of dd14s it was needed.  ... So while it may seem like mom was the problem don't jump to that conclusion, sometimes the autistic child really does need that much interaction with mom to have a successful playdate.  Remind your dd of you rules/expectations and try again.  

 

ETA: Now as for the backstory stuff you added later, the hill incident I agree with the mom, it's not up to your child to tell him to stop when he is doing nothing wrong.  You put that you rolled your eyes that he can do nothing wrong, but in this case he wasn't. He was rolling down a hill and was clearly allowed to.  This wasn't a case of him doing something actually wrong that his parents allowed anyway, your dd told him to stop, the mom said her kid could do it and asked why she felt he shouldn't.  The fact is if she had a worry about her kid rolling she would have said something, that is not her kid never being wrong.  The arguing on the other hand the mom acted like a child, she shouldn't have been arguing about it and when she realized her mistake she should have apologized for it.  That said, I would like to err on the side of caution and say perhaps mom was a frustrated/frazzled with how the playdate was going just as you were and responded in a way she normally wouldn't.  Doesn't make it right but does give hope for future playdates.

 

See, I don't think the other child really does. I've babysit him before for the other parent, and he did just fine without her.  I guess that's part of why it irritates me so much.  As for the emphasis, part of the reason I was irritated was that I was the one who asked why she shouldn't. The other mom didn't allow her child the chance to respond to mine.  (Or ignore her ;) ) She just started in on my kid.  I had to jump in to allow my child the chance to defend herself.   The kids really could have handled this themselves, either by her child ignoring or confronting mine, or just moving on.  FWIW, it wasn't that either wasn't allowed to roll down the hill, it was that my child was concerned for the other child, and got verbally confronted for expressing her concern, although granted she didn't continue "___, Stop!" with "____, Stop! You could get hurt!"   

 

The rolling down the hill thing and similar - I'd tell your daughter that it is OK to mention the risk one time, but other people get to decide how they want to deal with that risk (to themselves).  If she wants to change what someone is doing, making a positive suggestion "want to do x now?" is better than "no / don't" and if all else fails, she has a right to just not participate after a point.  Though in a guest/host situation (at that age), it is polite to do what the other person wants roughly half of the time.  As I tell my kids, "you can do anything [however tedious] for ___ minutes." About the "yes I did tell him" type stuff, I recommend that you talk to her about how to calmly agree to disagree and move on.  It isn't worth fighting about a minor misunderstanding.  Nobody likes to be misunderstood, but it happens to everyone at times.

 

I hate to tell my child not to worry about other people getting hurt when they do something foolish, but that's a good life lesson--you can't save everyone!  Truthfully, my child did calmly disagree, but the other parent just wouldn't accept the disagreement. IIRC, she actually started to get up from her chair to move towards my child to further confront her!

 

It does sound like this particular parent-child combination are challenging to have playdates with.

 

More generally, I do think it is good for children to have free play time with other children, though your poll only asked about non sibling play time and I don't think there are huge benefits that can be derived only from playing with non siblings. I have five kids fairly close in age, and most of their play time is with each other. If I had an only child or children far apart in age I think I would work harder to cultivate some close friendships with regular play time.

 

You betcha.  I'm trying to work on those close relationships, but I don't think my nerves can take this one. ;)