Do your kids say the Pledge of Allegiance for homeschool?

[lauracolumbus]

Sagira,

It's only mindless mumbling if you make it mindless mumbling. The same could be said of rote prayers or anything else we teach our children. I teach my kids the ideals behind the words. I teach them how the belief in liberty, justice and freedom so moved Thomas Jefferson to write the Declaration of Independence and how seeing the flag flying after the bombardment at Ft. McHenry so moved Francis Scott Key to write the Star Spangled Banner and that it was the scourge of slavery and war that inspired Lincoln to write the Gettysburg Address (which btw is supposed to be the source of the Pledge's inclusion of the phrase "under God").

 

Laura

[lauracolumbus]

Eliana, I think that is a wonderful point about it being a communal activity. Maybe that's why many of us feel a bit uncomfortable saying it in a private setting. I think the reason the flag is more likely to be 'the' symbol of the ideals of our country (in addition to our country itself) is b/c it's easier to capture visually. The Dec. of Independence and the Constitution as well as numerous other artifacts could be used, but the flag is simplistic and noble in my mind--kind of like the eagle, but w/more symbolism due to its being carried into battle, on top of buildings, and even to the moon. When I saw the United Nations building I was struck by the granduer and elegance of all the flags waving in unison.

 

Laura

[tricia]

Not really. But I do ensure they know it and know what it means.

[KristenS]

We don't generally, but once in a while the kids want to. It wasn't something I had thought to teach till Ted became a Tiger Cub ... he memorized the Cub materials quickly and we had to teach him the pledge ... while the other kids already knew the pledge and struggled with the Cub stuff. LOL. He picked it up though.

 

I think, for cultural literacy at the very least, it ought to be taught. And explained. And then the child can choose or not, based on that.

[TammyinTN]

Awesome! I was hoping to hear from someone who says the pledge. May I ask what your motivations are in saying the pledge everyday? For example, do you do it is as a sign of respect or to exhibit your own patriotism or to teach your children patriotism?? TIA for your reply. :)

 

First off were a military family and also when I started homeschooling with A Beka they always did the pledges and songs as well as praying for our President. I absolutely love it and this year even though I'm doing all the teaching we will keep it up as well as our patriotic songs. I definitely think it's a sign of respect and he will always stand and show reverence to the flag.

[TammyinTN]

What is the Christian Flag and its pledge?

 

Pledge to the Christian Flag

 

I pledge allegiance to Christian Flag and to the Savior for whose Kingdom it stands. One Savior, crucified, risen and coming again with life and liberty to all who believe.

[Jenny in Florida]

Recently, I read a good suggestion for those kids/parents that are very uncomfortable with "under God" an interesting, and I think a proper solution - saying "under law" instead.

 

I've never said the "under God" part, even when I was in school as a kid. I just left that out.

 

And, no, we don't say it regularly. My kids learned it at some point, but it's not a regular part of our lives. It's always felt artificial and formulaic to me. I'd much rather my kids devote that energy to actually learning about their country's history and the Constitution, both of which are a whole lot more meaningful that a memorized paragraph.

[AndyJoy]

Pledge to the Christian Flag

 

I pledge allegiance to Christian Flag and to the Savior for whose Kingdom it stands. One Savior, crucified, risen and coming again with life and liberty to all who believe.

 

This is the way it's said at the Christian school where I sub, but when I was in elementary school (late 80s) we learned

 

I pledge allegiance to Christian Flag and to the Savior for whose Kingdom it stands. One brotherhood uniting all Christians in service and in love.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

No. They learned it when they were little, and say it in public meetings, but we don't say it at home.

 

Same with the National Anthem. They know it, and sing it beautifully, but we don't do ceremony or ritual at home.

[Peek a Boo]

.... unless they were actively teaching it.

that's the only time we recite it too. I consider it a more cultural piece of knowledge than patriotic piece of knowledge.

 

 

I believe the addition of "under God" in 1954 makes the Pledge unconstitutional, and a form of "coerced prayer". So I refrain.

 

I think the pledge itself is too socialist to be Constitutional, which is why we refrain :)

 

....When I make my pledge it is to the ideals of democracy and freedom, ... It is similar to the vow I made to my dh--I will love and honor him, altho I know he will sometimes fail. Not that I would want to carry that analogy too far.

 

 

yeah. That's why i don't care if others say it. :)

 

and I do think the communal part is a big draw.

[chaik76]

Pledge to the Christian Flag

 

I pledge allegiance to Christian Flag and to the Savior for whose Kingdom it stands. One Savior, crucified, risen and coming again with life and liberty to all who believe.

I think we said this in school when I was little.

 

I stoped saying the American Pledge when I was in middle school. First, I really can't pledge allegiance to a flag...I think it's silly to pledge something made out of cloth, that can easily be destroyed... and then there are some other things that people have mentioned to that are also issues for me.

The God thing isn't ,but I can see how it would be for people.

[Ibbygirl]

We say it periodically, usually when one of the dc ask to say it.

 

The pledge, the national anthem, etc. has come to mean more to me and my dc since my son has been serving in the Marine Corp. We are more aware of the price others have paid throughout the history of our country. No matter what your political leanings are, those men who are serving are making enormous sacrifices for us every day.

 

 

Amen, MamaT. I cannot agree more. You words gave me goosebumps all over when I read them. My family is a military family too and I always have the impression that those that serve are the shoulders on which the rest of us stand. I have a profound respect for all those who serve and whenever I see anyone in uniform I go up to them and thank them.

 

I too have become more patriotic as I've gotten older. But it has been more the result of my own journey of understanding and not so much becuase of things like saying the pledge. I am ashamed to admit this, but it would be dishonest of me not to, but I remember very vividly when I was a saucy little brat back in Middle and High School how I would purposely put my left hand on my chest instead of my right and mockingly say the pledge. I didn't understand the point of it all and I didn't care either way. It was extremely disrespectful on my part and I can see that now, but therein lies my quandry and my purpose for creating this thread. Even though I didn't say it with respect at the time, BUT I still learned it by heart. I know the pledge backwards and forwards and if I say it today I do say it with respect for my country and for all those who have sacrificed so greatly for it. So was it ultimately a bad thing that I was forced to say it each day in school??

 

That is the question that got me starting this thread in the first place. I really wanted to hear other people's takes on this thing and I wonder if having a child say this everyday or even to sing the national anthem is a good means of instilling patriotism?? I also know all the words to the national anthem and I it moves me to tears when I sing it now. So again, is it a good thing or a bad thing to have the kids do this??

 

Oh and this isn't all on your shoulders btw, MamaT. hehe :) I don't expect you to have the burden of answering all my questions, but rather I wanted to address your post especially to say how much I appreciate your family's sacrifice, but the rest of my musings were for people in general to comment on. ;) :D

 

May God richly bless you and your family. :patriot: Interestingly, the "title" of that smilie with the flag is "patriot" . :)

 

Jen

Edited April 27, 2009 by Ibbygirl

[Ibbygirl]

Besides, nobody wants me singing *anything* in this house. "Out of tune" doesn't even begin to describe it. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

LOOOOL I feel your pain. When I was pregnant the first time I always had these daydreams of wearing some flowing white nightgown with my long hair loose and flowing (think Cher in the 70's) and nursing my baby in the rocker while singing softly to her and her looking up into my face with love and security in her eyes.....

 

REALITY>>>> My hair is a rat's nest piled up on my head because baby's love to pull your hair (didn't know that) I have bags and circles under my eyes from staying up all night long every night from my daughter's 6 months of colic... the floor is covered in baby toys and tubs of baby wipes. I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt. I sit down in the rocking chair to nurse my baby. I sing to her and she starts to cry! :eek: :confused:

 

hehehe

 

In fact, whenever I sing at all, people kindly (or not so kindly) ask me to shut it! hehehe ;)

[Ibbygirl]

I did for about a month or so, just long enough to teach my youngest the words. But we say the original pledge (before they added "under God" and such)

 

I do not make them say it, but we do stand up and put our hands over our hearts. We do the same for the national anthem. We also remove our hats, if we are wearing any. If another country's anthem is playing we will stand without our hands over our hearts to show respect.

 

 

Awesome!! I really like that. I think it is so important to show respect for other people's anthems as well. I'm so glad to hear you're doing that and teaching your children that. Way to go mom! YAY! :)

[Ibbygirl]

We say the pledge at home (not daily) and once a week at a co-op. We come from a very military family--almost all males have served--and I was in the Reserves for about 10 years. We also go to Memorial Day parades, 4th of July parades and show our love for this country every chance we get. We went to Washington DC last summer and watched the changing of the guards at Arlington. I want my children to be appreciative of the sacrifice of those who came before them and the freedoms they enjoy. We listen to patriotic songs like the National Anthem, America the Beautiful, and Hail to the Chief as well. For me, it's about respect--especially at sites like Arlington National Cemetery. It's hard not to get teary-eyed at a ceremony with grizzly old War War II vets saluting the flag as they too get teary-eyed. I see nothing wrong w/paying tribute to a symbol of our freedom--esp. when I see the image of the Marines raising the flag at Iwo Jima or the firefighters at the site of the WTC bombing.

 

Laura

 

 

Beautiful words. Thank you Laura. :) God bless you and your family for your service. :grouphug:

[Ibbygirl]

Nope, we have objections to it. And I was refused entrance to my brother's graduation because of it and the fact that I come from a military family (it was my brother and stepfather that refused our entrance...the other option was that they would refuse to sit next to us).

 

 

Woah! That's a little harsh. Sorry to hear that. :(

[Ibbygirl]

I chose other. When we first started homeschooling we did. My two were used to starting the day that way in school and they wanted to say it. I went along. It slowly fizzled out. My dd asked me recently why we don't say it. I told her loyalty to your country is something you feel in your heart and show with your actions. You don't need to say the pledge to be a patriot. We also did a brief discussion on how saying the words does not show you mean them. I also told her that if she wants to say the pledge I will support that decision.

 

 

That's awesome! I lean more towards what you are saying as well. On the one hand I think it is good for them to know that the pledge and the anthem actually exist and to know the history behind it and the reason for it and even the words to it, but ultimately it has to come from them out of a feeling of true patriotism. What still makes me wonder is if the introduction of the pledge/anthem helps them along that path or hinders them??

[Peek a Boo]

I really wanted to hear other people's takes on this thing and I wonder if having a child say this everyday or even to sing the national anthem is a good means of instilling patriotism?? .... So again, is it a good thing or a bad thing to have the kids do this??

 

 

well, even my Marine Corps officer li'l bro reports that the Pledge/ Flag isn't what the military [at least, the units he's been involved in the last 12 years] looks for in seeing Real Patriotism. [My parents and sis were all military at one time too and say the same thing.] A simple, sincere Thank You is plenty. If you have to choose between spending $100 on a flag and pole vs donating it to a military cause, donate the money. If you can afford to do both, do both. :)

 

I have picked up three flags at thrift stores: we keep them on hand for practice and to fly at certain times. Especially w/ Scouts and 4-H and voter registration drives.

 

and no --simply reciting the pledge/anthem is not a good means of instilling patriotism.

 

I think a solid course in Citizenship in the Community and Activism is a much more effective means of letting those who are dying for us know that we really understand and appreciate the process that they are willing to protect w/ their lives.

 

So is it a bad thing? not necessarily.

Is it a good thing? It can be :)

 

However, since there ARE so many that see much benefit in the pledge, flag, and anthem, it is important as servants for us to know those tools to uplift certain people.

[Ibbygirl]

Yep, don't you know that it was my stepfather alone that kept this country free and all of that? :glare: What do I expect out of someone with an inflated ego? Thing was, I warned my brother ahead of time so he could tell me whether or not to come. He said it would be fine, then I showed up (with husband and two babies in tow) only to be yelled and screamed at by stepdad and have brother stand there and say I "deserved it" :confused:

 

 

That is so messed up on so many levels! :mad:

[Ibbygirl]

Laura, have you ever researched the history of the pledge and carefully considered each line of it. It is a vow, not a symbol. Scripture speaks to tread very carefully where vows are concerned (as do many other faiths). The flag is a symbol, the national anthem is symbolic. The pledge is neither.

 

 

Interesting point. Thanks for that.

[KrissiK]

Yes, we do. Every day. We also recite poetry and sing "traditional American songs" as part of the beginning of our day.

[Ibbygirl]

Oh so many wonderful and interesting responses. I'm really enjoying reading your answers. I hope to hear more. Thank you ladies for being so candid and honest. I really appreciate your participation in this thread. And again to all you military families, thank you for your sacrifice and service. :patriot:

 

Blessings,

Jennifer

[Ibbygirl]

well, even my Marine Corps officer li'l bro reports that the Pledge/ Flag isn't what the military [at least, the units he's been involved in the last 12 years] looks for in seeing Real Patriotism. [My parents and sis were all military at one time too and say the same thing.] A simple, sincere Thank You is plenty. If you have to choose between spending $100 on a flag and pole vs donating it to a military cause, donate the money. If you can afford to do both, do both. :)

 

I have picked up three flags at thrift stores: we keep them on hand for practice and to fly at certain times. Especially w/ Scouts and 4-H and voter registration drives.

 

and no --simply reciting the pledge/anthem is not a good means of instilling patriotism.

 

I think a solid course in Citizenship in the Community and Activism is a much more effective means of letting those who are dying for us know that we really understand and appreciate the process that they are willing to protect w/ their lives.

 

So is it a bad thing? not necessarily.

Is it a good thing? It can be :)

 

However, since there ARE so many that see much benefit in the pledge, flag, and anthem, it is important as servants for us to know those tools to uplift certain people.

 

 

Thank you for your comments. You have a gift for putting words together. :) Do you know of a good course in Citizenship and Activism? I'd love to hear some suggestions. :) I think that is an excellent idea. :)

[Peek a Boo]

Thank you for your comments. You have a gift for putting words together. :) Do you know of a good course in Citizenship and Activism? I'd love to hear some suggestions. :) I think that is an excellent idea.

 

sometimes that gift works, other times it backfires, lol!

 

As for a COURSE? no, not really. The closest i can think of would be the 3 Boy Scout Merit badges of Citizenship in the Community/Nation/World + lots of active serving.

The merit badge books are only about $4 each and can be bought by ANYONE. there are also free worksheets online for each badge.

 

for us, it looks like this:

 

1. We helped the homeschool dad down the street get elected to mayor a couple years ago. We helped create mailouts and doorknob hangars and went door to door for him. DS realized how important it is to serve: i [along w/ others on other boards] was asked for my personal endorsement that appeared in a large newspaper ad [well, it's a small newspaper, lol]. Serving on a campaign can be a big lesson in itself.

 

2. We attend lots of city meetings: that includes reading the agendas, following the agendas, writing speeches to read at the citizens forum time, and sometimes speaking impromptu. oldest ds has spoken at city council meetings a couple times and watched the open Meetings Act videos online. I am a fairly regular contributor to sending out emails [CC'ing the paper as well as the city officials] voicing my opinion of items discussed at meetings. hanging out at Whataburger w/ a couple key city people afterwards is fun too. :D

 

 

2. a.} We are also very active about other local issues. We have a looming toll road that has been proposed not far from us. When i found out, we made up hundreds of flyers and went door to door [in a different section of the town --they were directly in its path] and distributed a TON of info. The city ended up changing their council resolution from supporting one alignment to supporting a different alignment. I think i have the reputation of being the wacko mom that has a printer and isn't afraid to use it... ;) {{this would fall more under Activism than Citizenship}}

 

3. I served on the Parks and rec Board and am currently VP of our Library Board. oldest ds volunteers at our library and attends meetings w/ me. he is also attending the first Teen Council they are setting up this week. We are also active at other libraries and visit them regularly to discuss issues specific to how libraries serve the communities.

 

4. I'm community leader for our local Crime watch group: the kids helped create flyers and contact lists and went door to door as we were planning meetings. [This is a job i need to delegate out --getting it started was the hard part. i think it can be pretty much self-propelled for now....]

 

5. At the advice of THSC, I became a Volunteer Deputy Voter Registrar: I am authorized to assist people in filling out voter registration forms and can accept them to be turned in. We used this in tandem w/ him setting up a couple of voter registration drives. The Voter Registrar also let the kids sit in on the training. :) {{this is our bit of introduction to county level gvt -- i still need to tackle that a bit more eventually}}

 

6. oldest DS is Prez of his 4-H club --they are always looking for ways to get involved and serve the community. they also get to see/ hear how other clubs are serving the community.

 

7. Scouting: my 3 oldest boys are in Scouts [2 Boy Scouts, 1 cub scout]. I serve as a den leader for the youngest, and assist the older two in merit badge work [including the one i mentioned]. Through their Troop, they are involved in other community service projects like Scouting for Food, fundraising, and various Eagle Projects.

 

8. Meals on Wheels: we just started doing this, and I must say, it is an EASY way to involve even young children in community service. :) We invited MoW [and other organizations] to attend our homeschool expo: it increased awareness for them and gave other families w/ young children the chance to ask questions and sign up.

 

9. We follow what happens a bit in Congress via my sister in law: she's a military aid on Sen Corker's staff in DC, presents stuff before Congress, and travels around the world. Her dh-- my li'l bro-- is a Marine Corps HUMINT officer: Human Intelligence. counter intelligence.

 

9.a) We tried to attend several Presidential candidate rallies last year. we were able to see Obama and Ron Paul in teh dallas area. had to settle for research and videos for the others....

 

10. We are active in attending homeschool leadership meetings that discuss regional/ state politics wrt parental/ educational rights. the daytime curfews issue is the latest biggie.

 

but it's easy to confuse general community service w/ *citizenship*:

Citizenship implies action in the political process. Sometimes those general community service projects overlap w/ political citizenship projects [like when MoW invited mayors and other city/ county officials to volunteer on a specific day- Mayors on Wheels :) ], but I do think it important to include a healthy dose of both.

 

Activism is just you exercising your abilities/ talents on a topic of personal issue to you. Mine happens to be homeschooling and abortion, so we do a lot of work w/ organizations that might not be considered general citizenship OR general community service. Awhile back, karen asked about ways to get involved in cleaning up the garbage in the ocean and I offered a quick checklist off the top of my head. I'll have to find that post.... But that's something that can be applied to any topic: religious, political, community, or personal. Oh yeah - we attended a local tea Party on the 15th, but I'm not ready to be involved in organizing one....

 

Of all the above, i think the most important for Citizenship is attending the local meetings and RESPONDING to them. The next most important would be to actually RUN for office-- I may be ready to VOTE, but if the people I have to choose from are all interested in only one thing [their own agenda] then my vote doesn't count for much. It's really not that difficult to FILE and RUN. It can be as cheap or expensive as you let it be.

I would, but i REALLY don't want to until my youngest is quite a bit older [14yos, 11yos, 7yos, 5yod, 3yos]. My plate is pretty full........

 

Keep in mind that you might not do ALL of these EVERY year. They can be done in spurts. We are in Scouting for the long haul, and I think it's important to attend city council meetings [even tho they always say the Pledge :D] as often as possible, even if you only listen most of the time. i would encourage everyone to serve on a board for at least one term [usually two years]. we don't say the pledge at our library board meetings. ;)

[Ibbygirl]

2. a.} We are also very active about other local issues. We have a looming toll road that has been proposed not far from us. When i found out, we made up hundreds of flyers and went door to door [in a different section of the town --they were directly in its path] and distributed a TON of info. The city ended up changing their council resolution from supporting one alignment to supporting a different alignment. I think i have the reputation of being the wacko mom that has a printer and isn't afraid to use it... ;) {{this would fall more under Activism than Citizenship}}

 

Wow! That is really impressive. It has to be very empowering as well I imagine. I mean, there are so many things wrong in this world, I think it is so easy to just throw up your hands and say, "what can I do? I'm just one person." But I think what you just wrote there shows what just one person can do when she puts her mind to it! That's totally awesome! :hurray: :party:

 

I would, but i REALLY don't want to until my youngest is quite a bit older [14yos, 11yos, 7yos, 5yod, 3yos]. My plate is pretty full........

 

 

 

That gets my vote for the understatement of the year. ;) :D You go girl! :grouphug:

 

Thank you so much for your post. It is truly inspiring! Now I have to see what I can do. :)

[Friederike in Persia]

Not American! I'd be shocked if anyone here was to sing the national anthem in their homeschool unless they were actively teaching it. Few people here even know the second, let alone third verse!

 

:)

Rosie- in the former colony populated by Poms with lazy patriotism genes.

 

I loooooooove the 2nd verse of the British one, it gets me :lol: each time! (It's all about the queen's horrible enemies being killed off), so much more fun than the German one, where so many difficult/bad historic memories are attached!

My kid's also know the Tajik one, but to be honest, the words are so complicated that I don't really understand it (together with half of the population here).

[Starr]

They learned it in 4-H.

[Firefly]

Mine know it from doing K and 1st in school. But at home we never do it.

[WishboneDawn]

Well, I'm Canadian but I don't make the kids sing our anthem at any regular interval. I think the real reason lies in an experience we had when we had to run up to a local school one morning to pick up a prize I'd won in a craft fair. Anyway, we got there just as Oh Canada was playing. It was even blasted out into the parking lot and everyone, even someone walking through the school doors, had stopped and was standing still until it was done. It was downright creepy. The anthem stopped and everyone picked up where they left off. My kids thought it was the most bizarre thing they'd seen in ages.

 

It seemed liked programming people that day. Not respect or any kind of meaningful reflection on the anthem just routine programming to instill a specific response whenever people heard the anthem. Not my cup of tea.

[Strawberry Queen]

In Canada we don't have a pledge. In my school experience we only had the anthem on Monday mornings??? I make sure my kids know it, but we don't do it regularly.

 

ETA: just a few thoughts

 

Overt patriotism isn't encouraged in Canada. It's basically too american. We are just more reserved and only cheer at sporting events, namely hockey:-)

Edited April 28, 2009 by Strawberry Queen

[Ibbygirl]

In Canada we don't have a pledge. In my school experience we only had the anthem on Monday mornings??? I make sure my kids know it, but we don't do it regularly.

 

ETA: just a few thoughts

 

Overt patriotism isn't encouraged in Canada. It's basically too american. We are just more reserved and only cheer at sporting events, namely hockey:-)

 

 

Thank you for your post. :) So are you saying that Canadians aren't encouraged to be patriotic in front of others because they don't want to appear to be from the United States?? Did I read interpret that correctly??

 

Is it just a form of distinction to otherwise distinguish two similar peoples or is out of some sort of ambivalence?

 

I'm not saying that in any kind of negative way. I don't know how to say this in any way that doesn't "read bad" over the internet. If you could see my face you'd know that what you wrote isn't being taken in any kind of bad way, I'm just asking this question out of a desire to understand the dynamics between our two countries since I am not Canadian and cannot see the Canadian perspective without someone showing it to me.

 

Thanks. :)

 

Jen

[CactusPair]

I am uncomfortable with the premise behind the American Pledge of Allegiance, as well as the idea of pledging allegiance to anything, particularly an object such as a flag. I know the flag represents the country and stands as a symbol, but the practice makes me take pause nonetheless.

 

Therefore, we do not say the pledge in homeschool. I plan to teach the dc the words at some point as part of cultural literacy, and also why we do not agree with the idea of a "pledge of allegiance".

 

I also take issue with the addition of "under god", but still would not say the pledge even if those words were removed.

[Jill- OK]

...to say, "No".

 

I was a military wife for fourteen years. (My husband served for a total of twenty-seven). I've celebrated holidays and given birth without my husband present (War on Terror), and I've watched him sit down with our kids and tell them that even if he didn't see them again in this life, he'd see them in the next one.

 

I don't say the pledge at home, and honestly...I don't say it in public, because I don't unequivocally pledge allegiance to the flag. I absolutely pledge a limited allegiance to it--one that probably surpasses many folks' devotion, since I committed to a military life and was prepared to become a single mom if necessary, for my country--but my only unequivocal allegiance is to my faith. If the republic for which the flag stands ever makes changes which would be contradictory to my faith belief set...then my faith-based belief system wins.

 

I know it seems like so much semantical nit-picking, and it may well be, lol...but that's how I am. I probably take pledges and the like waaaay too seriously.

 

I'll leave it up to my children, as to whether or not they say it, but I will require them to stand and be respectful, just as I do, and they'll learn it from me, as part of our cultural education.

[Spy Car]

I think the pledge itself is too socialist to be Constitutional, which is why we refrain :)

 

 

:confused:

 

I like the indivisible and liberty and justice for all parts :D

[Ibbygirl]

...to say, "No".

 

I was a military wife for fourteen years. (My husband served for a total of twenty-seven). I've celebrated holidays and given birth without my husband present (War on Terror), and I've watched him sit down with our kids and tell them that even if he didn't see them again in this life, he'd see them in the next one.

 

I don't say the pledge at home, and honestly...I don't say it in public, because I don't unequivocally pledge allegiance to the flag. I absolutely pledge a limited allegiance to it--one that probably surpasses many folks' devotion, since I committed to a military life and was prepared to become a single mom if necessary, for my country--but my only unequivocal allegiance is to my faith. If the republic for which the flag stands ever makes changes which would be contradictory to my faith belief set...then my faith-based belief system wins.

 

I know it seems like so much semantical nit-picking, and it may well be, lol...but that's how I am. I probably take pledges and the like waaaay too seriously.

 

I'll leave it up to my children, as to whether or not they say it, but I will require them to stand and be respectful, just as I do, and they'll learn it from me, as part of our cultural education.

 

Yeah I can see what you mean. I am a Christian also and I agree that it is a bit of a sticky situation when it comes to the Pledge. Jesus talks about not taking oaths in Matthew 5:33-37 specifically saying to "let your 'yes' be 'yes' and your 'no' be 'no' for whatever is more than these comes from the evil one" But would the Pledge be considered an oath??

 

An oath in my understanding is binding and a covenant type arrangement. But what are you even really bound to by the Pledge?? The words are pretty ambiguous. "I pledge allegiance to the flag", but what does that really even mean? :confused::confused:

 

What do ya'll think?

 

Maybe I am thinking about this way too much, but the more I think about it, the more confused I feel. What the heck is the Pledge of Allegiance really saying and what is the purpose for it? I mean, if it is an oath of allegiance to the country, what is it exactly that you are pledging to do?? The Pledge doesn't give any specifics at all so what are we really pledging anyway and why pledge to do something that is unknown?? :confused::confused:

 

Ay, my brain is starting to hurt. ;) :D

[Jackie in AR]

No, we've never done that at home.

 

And that is one criticism a friend had when we first began homeschooling almost a decade ago. She was a ps first grade teacher, and insisted the pledge was a *must* for beginning any school day.

[mommaduck]

No, we've never done that at home.

 

And that is one criticism a friend had when we first began homeschooling almost a decade ago. She was a ps first grade teacher, and insisted the pledge was a *must* for beginning any school day.

Oh goodness. And what, pray tell, did we do before it was written?

[Elaine]

I definitely think it's a sign of respect and he will always stand and show reverence to the flag.

 

I agree, Tammy.:001_smile:

[MyBlueLobsters]

We don't pledge allegiance to anyone but Christ.

:iagree:

[Rosie_0801]

I can't remember our anthem properly despite singing it every Monday morning for 6 years! Miss Tot woke up in a foul mood yesterday, so there I was on the bed with her and the baby, singing my little heart out trying to calm her down. I went through all the nursery rhymes I could think of, the folk songs, Christmas carols and started on the anthem, just to find myself mixing up the ending of the first verse with the ending of the second!

 

!!

Rosie

[phathui5]

Nope.

[Jackie in NE]

I voted "always".

 

We start every day with the Pledge of Allegiance, The Lord's Prayer, and then devotionals and read-alouds.

 

At the beginning of each semester we go through each line of the pledge and the Lord's prayer, and we talk about what each line means, and what we are pledging allegiance to, and why.

 

I was truly shocked to see how many people voted "never".

 

At the time of this post, there were something like 84 posts to this thread. I'm in the middle of cooking dinner, and don't have time to read them all......

 

.... but let me just say that I love this country. And I pledge allegiance to our flag every day because I am thankful for the freedoms that we have (to homeschool, for one), and for all the sacrifices that have been made over the years by our men (and women) in uniform. Do I agree with every war we've ever fought? No. Decisions are made by human beings, and human beings are fallible. But I stand by the country I call my home. If I can't pledge allegiance to my flag, perhaps it's time for me to find a new place to call "home".

[amyco]

We only say it when we put up the flag outside on patriotic holidays.

[KristenS]

Wow, lots of things to ponder here!

 

I will agree, though I don't mind saying the pledge, an American pledge is not going to override my Christian faith. If I ever had to choose between the two, I'd choose (I hope I'd choose) the Christian decision.

 

My only time I refuse to say the pledge is when they occasionally do it in church (like on patriotic holidays or Scout Sunday). I have this weird belief that church ground is Holy Ground ... not American soil. Kind of like an embassy. :) And it bugs me to pieces to pledge to any nation's flag in the church. In the past, I'd make my point, such as it was, by remaining seated, but now if I know ahead of time it will be happening, I just stay home. They haven't done it in a few years, fortunately.

 

I do respect the contributions of servicemen (there have been several in my family as well) ... and I wouldn't disrespect them for anything.

 

I love the discussions about citizenship and activisim and patriotism ... never really thought of splitting them all out like that...

[specialmama]

Thank you for your post. :) So are you saying that Canadians aren't encouraged to be patriotic in front of others because they don't want to appear to be from the United States?? Did I read interpret that correctly??

 

Is it just a form of distinction to otherwise distinguish two similar peoples or is out of some sort of ambivalence?

 

I'm not saying that in any kind of negative way. I don't know how to say this in any way that doesn't "read bad" over the internet. If you could see my face you'd know that what you wrote isn't being taken in any kind of bad way, I'm just asking this question out of a desire to understand the dynamics between our two countries since I am not Canadian and cannot see the Canadian perspective without someone showing it to me.

 

Thanks. :)

 

Jen

 

 

I'm not Strawberry Queen, but believe me, neither is she! :lol: She's more like Coffee Queen or Fresh Bread Queen... but I digress... I am Canadian so I'll give my interpretation of what SQ means.

 

It's like playing musical chairs, and when the music stops, Canada sees that the States is already making a bold dash for the chair, so Canada steps back and says "here you go, please, sit and be comfy. No no, I insist!" Now, Canada would give up her seat to pretty much any country, but the US does have a pretty big butt, so she just figures that since the US is doing a mighty fine job of keeping that seat warm, then she'll just smile and be happy for them.

 

Ya, that's pretty much it. Canadians, for the most part, are fine with just standing in the back and not being too bold and rowdy... except at a hockey game! :tongue_smilie:

Edited April 29, 2009 by specialmama

[specialmama]

Thank you for your post. :) So are you saying that Canadians aren't encouraged to be patriotic in front of others because they don't want to appear to be from the United States?? Did I read interpret that correctly??

 

Is it just a form of distinction to otherwise distinguish two similar peoples or is out of some sort of ambivalence?

 

I'm not saying that in any kind of negative way. I don't know how to say this in any way that doesn't "read bad" over the internet. If you could see my face you'd know that what you wrote isn't being taken in any kind of bad way, I'm just asking this question out of a desire to understand the dynamics between our two countries since I am not Canadian and cannot see the Canadian perspective without someone showing it to me.

 

Thanks. :)

 

Jen

 

 

I'm not Strawberry Queen, but believe me, neither is she! :lol: She's more like Coffee Queen or Fresh Bread Queen... but I digress... I am Canadian so I'll give my interpretation of what SQ means.

 

It's like playing musical chairs, and when the music stops, Canada sees that the States is already making a bold dash for the chair, so Canada steps back and says "here you go, please, sit and be comfy. No no, I insist!" Now, Canada would give up her seat to pretty much any country, but the US does have a pretty big butt, so she just figures that since the US is doing a mighty fine job of keeping that seat warm, then she'll just smile and be happy for them.

 

Ya, that's pretty much it. Canadians, for the most part, are fine with just standing in the back and not being too bold and rowdy... except at a hockey game! :tongue_smilie:

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Now, Canada would give up her seat to pretty much any country, but the US does have a pretty big butt, so she just figures that since the US is doing a mighty fine job of keeping that seat warm, then she'll just smile and be happy for them.

 

Bwahahahaha! Ha! :lol:

 

Perfect.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

.... but let me just say that I love this country. And I pledge allegiance to our flag every day because I am thankful for the freedoms that we have (to homeschool, for one), and for all the sacrifices that have been made over the years by our men (and women) in uniform. Do I agree with every war we've ever fought? No. Decisions are made by human beings, and human beings are fallible. But I stand by the country I call my home. If I can't pledge allegiance to my flag, perhaps it's time for me to find a new place to call "home".

 

I love my country, too. I figure I waved the flag every time I washed dh's BDU's or waited for a call from Bosnia or was left to raise his kids by myself. I've never had a permanent place to call home in my entire adult life. I went where my country sent us/him.

 

I'm very thankful for him and his band of brothers and sisters who lay their lives on the line for their country every single day and night.

 

But I have to say, my loyalty isn't to a flag. My allegiance is to my country and my family. Wearing a flag or waving one or saluting one doesn't make me more or less patriotic. The pledge is very important to some patriotic Americans, but it's not so much to this patriotic American.

 

And if one person on this thread is saying to you that you cannot pledge allegiance to your flag or your country or your God or your family, I'd love to see that. I'm not sure you're going to find that in this thread. We're just answering what the choices are for *our* families, not making a value judgment on what the choices are for other families.

[Peek a Boo]

:confused:

 

I like the indivisible and liberty and justice for all parts :D

 

well sure -- they were put in because the more specific words of equality and fraternity would be too controversial at the time ;)

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating public or state ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equality for all individuals, with a fair or egalitarian method of compensation

 

as a free-market capitalist w/ heavy leanings towards Objectivism and a very conservative philosophy, I think a pledge to a gvt smacks pretty hard of socialism.

 

I can pledge to do my best to help the individuals around me, because as a pretty selfish person i want to be surrounded by the BEST- the best neighbors, the best schools, the best parks, the best churches, the best stores, the best hospitals, the best roads, etc, etc.

 

In order to get The Best for stuff around me, I know the concept of liberty and justice for all is what drives people to BE the Best. The gvt has a looong habit of denying liberties in the name of "justice" and "equality." So pledging to a gvt? No thanks. I'm not really interested. That the pledge was WRITTEN by a Socialist doesn't surprise me. check out the original salute to the pledge at wiki.

 

 

But would the Pledge be considered an oath??

 

....But what are you even really bound to by the Pledge?? The words are pretty ambiguous. "I pledge allegiance to the flag", but what does that really even mean? :confused::confused:

 

What do ya'll think?

 

...What the heck is the Pledge of Allegiance really saying and what is the purpose for it? I mean, if it is an oath of allegiance to the country, what is it exactly that you are pledging to do?? The Pledge doesn't give any specifics at all so what are we really pledging anyway and why pledge to do something that is unknown??

 

...and to give another side to what i just posted to SpyCar above....

 

there isn't any cut n dried Gvt Response of Interpretation to what the Pledge is supposed to mean. It *is* vague -- written by a socialist, in a free country, it HAD to be vague to become so popular. And since Americans try to beat every other nation on how many patriotic symbols/ things/ traditions we do, a Pledge can become* another ....point... in the patriotism game.

 

*not necessarily IS, just, can become :)

 

Americans tend to be pretty independent. Insisting that a specific meaning/ response be tacked on would raise hackles :D

 

AND --because it is so vague, it is up to each person to decide exactly what kind or limit of allegiance it is they are pledging: back to whoever posted the spouse analogy :)

[clarkacademy]

I voted "always".

 

We start every day with the Pledge of Allegiance, The Lord's Prayer, and then devotionals and read-alouds.

 

At the beginning of each semester we go through each line of the pledge and the Lord's prayer, and we talk about what each line means, and what we are pledging allegiance to, and why.

 

I was truly shocked to see how many people voted "never".

 

At the time of this post, there were something like 84 posts to this thread. I'm in the middle of cooking dinner, and don't have time to read them all......

 

.... but let me just say that I love this country. And I pledge allegiance to our flag every day because I am thankful for the freedoms that we have (to homeschool, for one), and for all the sacrifices that have been made over the years by our men (and women) in uniform. Do I agree with every war we've ever fought? No. Decisions are made by human beings, and human beings are fallible. But I stand by the country I call my home. If I can't pledge allegiance to my flag, perhaps it's time for me to find a new place to call "home".[/quo

 

 

well said