I am sooooo pissed at ds's swim coach..vent

[Tap]

The background:

 

 

Let me start by saying that ds14 is an awesome kid. He is easy going and helpful. Never says anything hurtful to anyone and is a good Christian. He is a dream child! His teammates adore him and any adult that meets him does too. He is just one of those people who beam kindness.

 

 

He was on one swim team for a year, and then switched teams to follow his coach who went to this other team. The team he is on now is an elite team, and they practice very, very hard. This coach doesn't give a complement unless it is deserved. Ds is used to that and just really relishes getting any personal kudos at all from this coach (one comment every few months is common). Ds is close to state times, but still swims with the state/sectional swimmers (faster kids) because he is consistently dropping times (getting faster himself) and is getting close. Ds has had mono since early fall but is still dropping time. We reduced his pool time to 4 days a week, and spinning class 3 days. He has been slowly feeling better until Dec. He has struggled imensly these past month because they swim in an outdoor pool and it has been below freezing at night. He is 5'10" and 110 lbs, he doesn't have any fat on him to help insulate him in the weather. Due to his mono, during a recent ice storm I pulled him from practice for 10 days and he swam in an indoor pool (a few other parents did the same). He is just now back to the outdoor pool because it is in the 40s at night again.

 

 

Here is the vent,

 

Knowing all that ds has been through this fall, and how hard he has been trying. When he was working on dives tonight, his coach angrily yelled across the pool:

 

"Your worthless!

 

You may as well cut off your legs since

your dive... looks like a cripple getting out of a wheel chair!"

 

 

I am pissed, I am hurt for ds and I am pissed! This kid has committed 24 hours a week to swimming between commute, wait, spinning class and swimming... and that is what he has to say to him! I called the coach, left a voicemail that his insult was uncalled for and told him that ds was off the team. I think the lack of positive feedback, makes this comment even more hurtful and it was downright rude! Despite him swimming through mono, he has not said one thing to him about it, or his singular performance lately. Only this mean spirited name calling. The only positive feedback in the past few months has been group 'good job' comments.

 

There are about 9 competitive teams in our area and we are commuting 30-45 minutes each way to be on this team. We definitely have other options! Maybe I will feel differently in the morning, but tonight I am fuming! I don't know where this comment came from, ds is devastated. He is so hurt and angry to be treated this way.

 

 

Sorry vent over, thanks for listening, I really needed to put it all in context.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Tap, tap, tap

[Kris]

I understand why you're upset -- I totally agree with you. But, unless I missed it, you don't mention what your son thinks of all of this, other than he wanted to switch teams so he could follow this coach.

 

What is it about this guy that your son likes? Respects? He surely had this "style" before he switched teams, so why did your son want to follow him?

 

Personally? I wouldn't have put up with this kind of crap for five minutes, let along followed him to another team. There is *always* something positive to say to a kid who is working that hard, and in your son's case, you don't have to even look very hard! What he has accomplished is amazing.

 

But I know my son will put up with *a lot* for reasons that only he understands.

 

The guy sounds like a total jerk -- one that has no business working with kids, that's for sure.

[Tap]

I understand why you're upset -- I totally agree with you. But, unless I missed it, you don't mention what your son thinks of all of this, other than he wanted to switch teams so he could follow this coach.

 

What is it about this guy that your son likes? Respects? He surely had this "style" before he switched teams, so why did your son want to follow him?

 

Personally? I wouldn't have put up with this kind of crap for five minutes, let along followed him to another team. There is *always* something positive to say to a kid who is working that hard, and in your son's case, you don't have to even look very hard! What he has accomplished is amazing.

 

But I know my son will put up with *a lot* for reasons that only he understands.

 

The guy sounds like a total jerk -- one that has no business working with kids, that's for sure.

 

Ds is hurt and mad. He feels like he just got slammed against the wall. He has been pushing so hard for so long and he was already physically at his max. This comment just couldn't have come at a worse time.

 

Before this ds was okay with the coaches lack of kudos. He is a technical coach and he doesn't say you did a good job unless you did it consistently perfect. But when you get a kudos from him, it really means something. Ds was used to that but on the old team he was in the top 5 on the team, so he had a feeling of ranking on the top of the team. There was a sense of pride in knowing that. On this new team he is probably down around #20. It is an elite team and there are kids on his team that rank in the top 15for the US. There are possible Olympians on his team and this coach has coached Olympians in the past. This is why ds chose to follow him, ds knows that he is a great coach. But now, I know that the coach has lost our respect as parents, and I know, more importantly he has lost my sons respect.

[Kris]

Ds is hurt and mad. He feels like he just got slammed against the wall. He has been pushing so hard for so long and he was already physically at his max. This comment just couldn't have come at a worse time.

 

Before this ds was okay with the coaches lack of kudos. He is a technical coach and he doesn't say you did a good job unless you did it consistently perfect. But when you get a kudos from him, it really means something. Ds was used to that but on the old team he was in the top 5 on the team, so he had a feeling of ranking on the top of the team. There was a sense of pride in knowing that. On this new team he is probably down around #20. It is an elite team and there are kids on his team that rank in the top 15for the US. There are possible Olympians on his team and this coach has coached Olympians in the past. This is why ds chose to follow him, ds knows that he is a great coach. But now, I know that the coach has lost our respect as parents, and I know, more importantly he has lost my sons respect.

 

Thank you for taking the time to explain all of that. Please give your son this:

 

:grouphug:

 

He sounds like a great, hardworking kid and certainly did NOT deserve to be talked to like that, especially with all that he has accomplished despite the problems he's had.

 

I'm so sorry he's having to deal with this -- and you, too, Mom! -- and I really hope his new coach recognizes how wonderful your son really is! AND tells him so!

[klmama]

:grouphug: Your son sounds like a great boy - hardworking, willing to endure personal hardship to achieve a goal, and totally dedicated to his sport. I hope mine has the same attitude and work ethic when he is that age!

 

So sorry about the coach. It's time to make a move. Surely, there are other good coaches who will be more positive and helpful. Find one, and don't look back!

[linders]

First, hugs to DS - sounds like a great kid!

 

The coach's comment bothers me on two levels. First, it was such destructive criticism for your DS in particular, but second, and to me, more important, what an amazing display of ignorance, prejudice, and insensitivity towards those who are disabled. He may fancy himself a national-caliber coach but I doubt a national-caliber coach would last long if such comments were overheard by the media! And I hardly view him as a good role model for young athletes.

 

I'm glad there are other options for your DS, and I'm sure you will find coaches with more constructive swim programs.

[Danestress]

What a total jerk head. But for the grace of God he could be confined to a wheel chair, and I think he owes an apology not just to your son, but to every brave soul living out their lives with a disability that they didn't go sign up for. Jerk.

 

I'm also sorry for your son. I have a swimmer too, and while the coaches can be tough and demanding, one of the things I have liked about swimming is that overall, the older kids and coaches have been such a positive influence on the team.

 

I'm so sorry your son had to be subjected to that. I hope he can go with a different team and really thrive.

[pqr]

A male perspective, and yes I know that I will be very unpopular after posting this.

 

Get over it.

 

1. The coach may have been a little rough, but so what. life is rough and if the worst thing that ever happens to a 14 year old is getting put down (yes I admit harshly and publicly) by a man he respects than he is a very lucky 14 year old.

 

2. By pulling the boy from the team what have you taught him? You certainly did not teach him to stick it out, even after all the other hard work he had put in. I would under no circumstances let my boy leave the team.

 

3. Today's coaches who fill their practice sessions with "atta boys," "way to go," and "good try" do little to create adults and much to generate today's generation of mamby-pamby boys who expect praise even when they do not deserve it. Your coach, who is sparse with his praise, has helped generate (and I am sure that you have done far more than the coach) in your son a work ethic and a realistic understanding that praise when given has been earned. He should be thanked for this.

 

4. You never told us, was your son diving badly? If so then while the verbiage used may have been, in today's rather soft environment, harsh; the criticism may have been justified.

 

5. Does the coach say this type of thing to other boys? If so then it is an accepted practice and you really do not have much to complain about.

 

6. What are the other boys on the team going to say to and about your son? To be honest by leaving the team your son, not the coach, is letting his teammates down.

 

7. Your son might be angry, but what does he want?

 

 

Were it me, I would call the coach back and tell him that I spoke in haste and that my son wants to stay on the team. I might need to eat some humble pie but in the long run I would have helped my son learn a valuable lesson.

[imeverywoman]

Your son sounds like an amazing young man. Congratulations to you for raising such a wonderful person, and for the where-with-all to stand your ground and demand that he be treated with respect.

 

I'm sure he will excel with his next team, especially since it will be without all the berating words.

 

Hugs to you...:grouphug:

[unsinkable]

t,t,t

 

The guy sounds like a jerk but this kind of talk is common in competative sports.

 

It sounds like you have other options, so that is a good thing.

[kalanamak]

t,t,t

 

The guy sounds like a jerk but this kind of talk is common in competative sports.

 

 

:iagree: Which is why I hope kiddo isn't on fire for such activities when older.

This coach is used to being judged on *ends* not means. I am only a fan of the ends, not means camp when we are talking about severe situations (war e.g.).

[Danestress]

which is why many of us choose swimming for our sons. I've spent many many hours watching kids of all aged coached in swimming - some of the top swimmers in the state, and I have never heard a coach mock the disabled.

 

I do regularly hear coaches be hard on kids and push them very hard, and I think kids need to learn to deal with that if they want to be in competitive sports. But this went further than anything I have witnessed, and I wouldn't let the "cripple" comment go without addressing it, that's for sure.

[Remudamom]

:iagree: Which is why I hope kiddo isn't on fire for such activities when older.

This coach is used to being judged on *ends* not means. I am only a fan of the ends, not means camp when we are talking about severe situations (war e.g.).

 

Well, men work differently than women do, but I think the means to the end matters too. The journey is just as important as the destination, maybe more so. I'd be interested in what he had to say about his outburst.

[unsinkable]

which is why many of us choose swimming for our sons. I've spent many many hours watching kids of all aged coached in swimming - some of the top swimmers in the state, and I have never heard a coach mock the disabled.

 

I do regularly hear coaches be hard on kids and push them very hard, and I think kids need to learn to deal with that if they want to be in competitive sports. But this went further than anything I have witnessed, and I wouldn't let the "cripple" comment go without addressing it, that's for sure.

 

What do you mean that is why you choose swimming for your sons? Do you only have sons? If it is important that coaches are not verbally abusive (which I think it is) why wouldn't it matter for sons and daughters?

[Annie G]

My biggest problem with the comment is that if he hands out kudos on a rare basis and receiving one indicates he really means the compliment, do the kids take these insults just as seriously? I'm guessing your ds remembers the last kudo, and how long will he hang on to this insult? Yes, I think it was an insult. A criticism could have been worded more constructively.

I agree that when kids enter a competitive environment that they have to grow thick skin. But they are still kids (teens) and the coaches need to keep that in mind.

I probably wouldn't leave the team just yet, but perhaps it is time to talk to the coach.

[unsinkable]

The background:

 

 

Let me start by saying that ds14 is an awesome kid. He is easy going and helpful. Never says anything hurtful to anyone and is a good Christian. He is a dream child! His teammates adore him and any adult that meets him does too. He is just one of those people who beam kindness.

 

 

He was on one swim team for a year, and then switched teams to follow his coach who went to this other team. The team he is on now is an elite team, and they practice very, very hard. This coach doesn't give a complement unless it is deserved. Ds is used to that and just really relishes getting any personal kudos at all from this coach (one comment every few months is common). Ds is close to state times, but still swims with the state/sectional swimmers (faster kids) because he is consistently dropping times (getting faster himself) and is getting close. Ds has had mono since early fall but is still dropping time. We reduced his pool time to 4 days a week, and spinning class 3 days. He has been slowly feeling better until Dec. He has struggled imensly these past month because they swim in an outdoor pool and it has been below freezing at night. He is 5'10" and 110 lbs, he doesn't have any fat on him to help insulate him in the weather. Due to his mono, during a recent ice storm I pulled him from practice for 10 days and he swam in an indoor pool (a few other parents did the same). He is just now back to the outdoor pool because it is in the 40s at night again.

 

 

Here is the vent,

 

Knowing all that ds has been through this fall, and how hard he has been trying. When he was working on dives tonight, his coach angrily yelled across the pool:

 

"Your worthless!

 

You may as well cut off your legs since

your dive... looks like a cripple getting out of a wheel chair!"

 

 

I am pissed, I am hurt for ds and I am pissed! This kid has committed 24 hours a week to swimming between commute, wait, spinning class and swimming... and that is what he has to say to him! I called the coach, left a voicemail that his insult was uncalled for and told him that ds was off the team. I think the lack of positive feedback, makes this comment even more hurtful and it was downright rude! Despite him swimming through mono, he has not said one thing to him about it, or his singular performance lately. Only this mean spirited name calling. The only positive feedback in the past few months has been group 'good job' comments.

 

There are about 9 competitive teams in our area and we are commuting 30-45 minutes each way to be on this team. We definitely have other options! Maybe I will feel differently in the morning, but tonight I am fuming! I don't know where this comment came from, ds is devastated. He is so hurt and angry to be treated this way.

 

 

Sorry vent over, thanks for listening, I really needed to put it all in context.

 

I'm just curious...have you heard him talk this way to others before this incident with your son?

 

There are coaches who just don't like certain kids. Do you think this is the case? That he doesn't like your son in particular?

[beansprouts]

I am a Mama Bear with sharp claws and teeth. If anybody hurts one of my children they are likely to get torn to pieces. However, I do think that pqr raises some good points that are worth considering. I know the time will come that Mama Bear has to take a breather while she watches her boys become Men.

 

A male perspective, and yes I know that I will be very unpopular after posting this.

 

Get over it.

 

1. The coach may have been a little rough, but so what. life is rough and if the worst thing that ever happens to a 14 year old is getting put down (yes I admit harshly and publicly) by a man he respects than he is a very lucky 14 year old.

 

2. By pulling the boy from the team what have you taught him? You certainly did not teach him to stick it out, even after all the other hard work he had put in. I would under no circumstances let my boy leave the team.

 

3. Today's coaches who fill their practice sessions with "atta boys," "way to go," and "good try" do little to create adults and much to generate today's generation of mamby-pamby boys who expect praise even when they do not deserve it. Your coach, who is sparse with his praise, has helped generate (and I am sure that you have done far more than the coach) in your son a work ethic and a realistic understanding that praise when given has been earned. He should be thanked for this.

 

4. You never told us, was your son diving badly? If so then while the verbiage used may have been, in today's rather soft environment, harsh; the criticism may have been justified.

 

5. Does the coach say this type of thing to other boys? If so then it is an accepted practice and you really do not have much to complain about.

 

6. What are the other boys on the team going to say to and about your son? To be honest by leaving the team your son, not the coach, is letting his teammates down.

 

7. Your son might be angry, but what does he want?

 

 

Were it me, I would call the coach back and tell him that I spoke in haste and that my son wants to stay on the team. I might need to eat some humble pie but in the long run I would have helped my son learn a valuable lesson.

Edited December 31, 2008 by beansprouts

[unsinkable]

My biggest problem with the comment is that if he hands out kudos on a rare basis and receiving one indicates he really means the compliment, do the kids take these insults just as seriously? I'm guessing your ds remembers the last kudo, and how long will he hang on to this insult? Yes, I think it was an insult. A criticism could have been worded more constructively.

I agree that when kids enter a competitive environment that they have to grow thick skin. But they are still kids (teens) and the coaches need to keep that in mind.

I probably wouldn't leave the team just yet, but perhaps it is time to talk to the coach.[/QUOTE]

 

She already left a voicemail for the coach, telling him her ds is off the team.

[Renee in NC]

This is why I can't go to my oldest's basketball games/practices - his coach makes me NUTS! However, I feel at 15 my ds is old enough to determine whether he can handle harsh criticism/name calling, etc. He isn't happy and DID come to me about quitting the team, but I told him he had to finish out the season. I will remind him next year about how he feels right now.

 

I would only step in if I thought it reached the level of abuse and/or my ds was the only one being treated as such (which would indicate some other problem.)

[Danestress]

And wouldn't want daughters verbally abused either, though I tend to think girls get a bit less of that (though I realize I am opening myself up to a thousand antecdotes here, lol).

 

My son works hard at swimming - we are about to leave for his 5th 2 hour practice of the week. And I pay a lot of money to allow him to do it. I am fine with the coach being tough. Sometimes I just cringe when he is pushing a kid, but I think we have to sit back and let coaches coach.

 

But the "cripple" comment and "worthless" seem a bit much to me. My son's coach is young, and I would have no trouble calling him and telling him that I think he crossed a line.

[beansprouts]

I wonder if, whether than "mommying" the young man through the situation, maybe it would be better to teach him how to stand up for himself respectfully. I think it would go further for earning the coach's respect, and if not, it teaches him an iimportant lesson about dealing with difficult personalities.

[unsinkable]

And wouldn't want daughters verbally abused either, though I tend to think girls get a bit less of that (though I realize I am opening myself up to a thousand antecdotes here, lol).

 

My son works hard at swimming - we are about to leave for his 5th 2 hour practice of the week. And I pay a lot of money to allow him to do it. I am fine with the coach being tough. Sometimes I just cringe when he is pushing a kid, but I think we have to sit back and let coaches coach.

 

But the "cripple" comment and "worthless" seem a bit much to me. My son's coach is young, and I would have no trouble calling him and telling him that I think he crossed a line.

 

That is so funny! This is the board for that!

 

I agree the coach is so, so wrong.

[beansprouts]

And wouldn't want daughters verbally abused either, though I tend to think girls get a bit less of that (though I realize I am opening myself up to a thousand antecdotes here, lol).

 

My dd was an ice skater for two years, and I have heard the advanced coaches make some pretty rough "observations". They were GOOD, though and they brought out the best in their kids. I don't know if that makes it right, though. Competitive skating can be an ugly environment, and I am not sure it is healthy overall...

[Danestress]

But I do think swim teams are a little different from teams in other sports. There's not the same "letting the team down" affect when someone leaves, unless they are one of the very top swimmers in the organization. Also, incidentally, the other swimmers aren't all "boys."

 

I do think you are right that kids have to get used to being pushed and driven, and that all the "great jobs" for half hearted performances are a disservice to our young people. Overall, I think we need to let coaches coach, and we need to sit on our hands and shut our mouths when they do it.

 

BUT the "cripple" comment just shows so much immaturity and lack of judgment. It's the sign of a small minded man, and I would prefer a coach with more character.

[beansprouts]

BUT the "cripple" comment just shows so much immaturity and lack of judgment. It's the sign of a small minded man, and I would prefer a coach with more character.

 

It was rude and out of line, but unless such insults are common I am not sure quitting the team is the most dignified response for the young man.

[dirty ethel rackham]

A male perspective, and yes I know that I will be very unpopular after posting this.

 

Get over it.

 

 

 

Excuse me! Did you read the part where this boy had MONO and still swam hard 4 days a week and took spin class 3 days a week? That his times were still dropping in spite of having mono? Everyone I know who had mono was IN BED for two weeks, barely able to get themselves to the bathroom and took MONTHS to get back to even 3/4 strength. To me, this kind of herculean effort alone should have been worth a drop of that elusive praise. His comments were uncalled for in any situation, but most of all, in this one.

 

I had mono in college and I almost had to drop out for a semester. I had been very fit - taking an advanced ballet class and a swim class each day, walking or biking over 3 miles a day between classes. Not elite swimmer fit, but definitely not a couch potato. I did have to drop ballet and swim and could barely get to my classes after 2 weeks in bed. My experience was not unique. When my husband got mono at 28 (he was very fit at the time) I nursed him back to health - 2 weeks in bed, 2 weeks of half-days at work. It took months before he was able to take a walk with me around the block after a day at work.

 

This to me sounds more like the straw that broke the camel's back, not necessarily a rash, angry decision.

[Tracey in TX]

There is NO excuse for this behavior. A coach is a child's mentor and should be expected to behave as a kind human being. TALK to this coach, give him a piece of your mind before you make a decision. He needs to hear how his words affect others, and give him an opportunity to apologize. We all have stress that others can't see--did he get awful news prior to practice? That will never make his comments acceptable, but if this is inconsistent with his normal behavior I might delve into it before pulling my child from his team.

[unsinkable]

Excuse me! Did you read the part where this boy had MONO and still swam hard 4 days a week and took spin class 3 days a week? That his times were still dropping in spite of having mono? Everyone I know who had mono was IN BED for two weeks, barely able to get themselves to the bathroom and took MONTHS to get back to even 3/4 strength. To me, this kind of herculean effort alone should have been worth a drop of that elusive praise. His comments were uncalled for in any situation, but most of all, in this one.

 

I had mono in college and I almost had to drop out for a semester. I had been very fit - taking an advanced ballet class and a swim class each day, walking or biking over 3 miles a day between classes. Not elite swimmer fit, but definitely not a couch potato. I did have to drop ballet and swim and could barely get to my classes after 2 weeks in bed. My experience was not unique. When my husband got mono at 28 (he was very fit at the time) I nursed him back to health - 2 weeks in bed, 2 weeks of half-days at work. It took months before he was able to take a walk with me around the block after a day at work.

 

This to me sounds more like the straw that broke the camel's back, not necessarily a rash, angry decision.

 

No offense intended, but many coaches don't think this way. If you are not sick, you're at practice. Period. If you're at practice, you give it everything. Period.

 

You think differently from the coach, it seems.

 

And, let me reiterate, I think what the coach said this time is wrong.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Ds is hurt and mad. He feels like he just got slammed against the wall. He has been pushing so hard for so long and he was already physically at his max. This comment just couldn't have come at a worse time.

<snip>

This is why ds chose to follow him, ds knows that he is a great coach. But now, I know that the coach has lost our respect as parents, and I know, more importantly he has lost my sons respect.

 

This for me is key - that this coach lost your son's respect. A coach cannot coach effectively if he does not have the respect of his athletes. I say Kudos for standing up for your son.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Have you ever had mono? Do you realize how dangerous it is to overtax yourself? One of my friends had to have her spleen removed because she didn't take it seriously. We are not talking about a cold here, we are talking about a serious, potentially chronic and life altering illness. I am not kidding about the not getting out of bed thing. We were actually close to hospitalizing my husband because he was so sick. To tell you the truth, he has not been the same and it was 17 years ago. Dh is no whiny baby when he is sick. He is one of those "perfect attendence" kind of guys. Nearly dropping out of college is not taken lightly either. Not only would it have been a huge financial hit to have wasted a semester's tuition, I would have rather walked on hot coals than admit failure, even for health reasons.

[mommaduck]

I know several people with mono, including one of my daughters. I'm shocked your son was able to push himself so hard...at that pace, many would run into severe liver issues that could be life threatening. My daughter starts to feel better, but if she even plays too hard, she's back in bed...thus I have to limit even normal activities for her.

Edited December 31, 2008 by mommaduck

[Tap]

[/color]

A male perspective, and yes I know that I will be very unpopular after posting this.

 

Get over it.

 

1. The coach may have been a little rough, but so what. life is rough and if the worst thing that ever happens to a 14 year old is getting put down (yes I admit harshly and publicly) by a man he respects than he is a very lucky 14 year old. being put down, corrected, told to try harder, suck it up, pull your head out of you a## comments are fine, telling someone they are worthless and using derogatory comments...is not. Ds is used to being 'coached' by this guy, he isn't used to being berated and told he is worthless

 

2. By pulling the boy from the team what have you taught him? You certainly did not teach him to stick it out, even after all the other hard work he had put in. I would under no circumstances let my boy leave the team.It is the end of short course season for ds, there are two breaks per year that moves are most logical, this is one of them.

 

3. Today's coaches who fill their practice sessions with "atta boys," "way to go," and "good try" do little to create adults and much to generate today's generation of mamby-pamby boys who expect praise even when they do not deserve it. Your coach, who is sparse with his praise, has helped generate (and I am sure that you have done far more than the coach) in your son a work ethic and a realistic understanding that praise when given has been earned. He should be thanked for this. I agree and ds never had a problem with this coaches lack of positive comments. He knew that a complement meant something from this coach...I already said that. This is not a mushy, gushy coach...never has been. This coach pushes hard! and corrects the kids often. He is a technical coach, he is expected to criticize the kids if their fingers aren't bent the right way. He doesn't have the right to shout derogatory statements across a pool of 10-16yo kids.

 

4. You never told us, was your son diving badly? If so then while the verbiage used may have been, in today's rather soft environment, harsh; the criticism may have been justified. Of course it was a bad dive, otherwise he wouldn't have insulted him over it. He was probably freezing waiting for his turn to dive and his body wasn't loose. He usually has a decent dive.

 

5. Does the coach say this type of thing to other boys? If so then it is an accepted practice and you really do not have much to complain about. No, in fact I emailed another mom about it and she agreed that she would be pissed to. Her son has worked for this coach for 2 years, and the mom hasn't seen the coach berate a kid before. He absolutely pushes hard, but not to the point of calling immature names.

 

6. What are the other boys on the team going to say to and about your son? To be honest by leaving the team your son, not the coach, is letting his teammates down.Sure, it will let them down. He is well liked. But kids come and go in swimming all year. It is a year long sport with a short break between two seasons. It isn't like most sports that are 4-5 mths, and then over for the year. Swimming is an individual sport. His leaving won't affect the team like most sports.

 

7. Your son might be angry, but what does he want? To be coached and not taunted. To get a criticism that is useful in making corrections to his swimming not his "worthlessness". Had the coach pulled him and said, your dives 'suck tonight' and "your not paying attention. Your legs are pulled up and your not getting off the block in a parallel position", ds would have been fine. To be told that he is "worthless" by a man he respects, cuts a lot deeper than coaching a single dive. I want ds respected and to be taught to respect. I want him taught to stand on his own two feet, and to not let anyone make him feel 'worthless'.

 

 

Were it me, I would call the coach back and tell him that I spoke in haste and that my son wants to stay on the team. I might need to eat some humble pie but in the long run I would have helped my son learn a valuable lesson.

Uh, yeah, not going to happen. Ds doesn't want to stay on the team. I am not humble, I am pissed, dh is pissed, and ds is pissed. The lesson my son will walk away from, is that you create your own destiny and your own path. If you don't like the situation your in, don't stand by an let someone kick you when your down. Stand up, and dust your self off, and then change your situation.

 

I want him to learn that when you are in a position of authority, your respect is all you have, and you need to treat people with respect.

 

 

What is he learning: to not let anyone push you around, even if they are in a power of authority over you. Sometimes, you do have to stick it out no matter what, this is not one of those times, and I hope my son learns that sticking it out, isn't always the best policy. Sometimes, you have to recognize it is time to leave a situation and find a new one. Once a coach has lost respect of a student, there really isn't any point of continuing. Ds won't swim for him the same way again. He didn't just berate ds, he threw his respect out the window.

 

Ds has learned in the past how to stick things out. Swimming is all about dropping mere seconds off 20 minute, mile long events. They spend 5-6 days a week swimming and training, to drop fractions of seconds sometimes. You don't become a swimmer if you are a quitter. No one on the team carries a swimmer, it is only you and what you can do. He has perseverance and ambition. These kids are pushed to the breaking point, this coach just pushed too far...and ds's spirit broke. You don't just get over that.

 

 

 

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

No offense intended, but many coaches don't think this way. If you are not sick, you're at practice. Period. If you're at practice, you give it everything. Period.

 

You think differently from the coach, it seems.

 

And, let me reiterate, I think what the coach said this time is wrong.

 

 

I think that this was very well put by Unsinkable.

 

In an unusual fashion the coach has been paying your son a compliment. Your son, despite his illness, has insisted on continuing and the coach is treating him like the rest of the team. Your son is reaching an age where he needs to decide for himself (with your advice and guidance of course) how he feels about the situation. As a parent I would have advised sleeping on this before making a decision. Perhaps agreeing as a family that he would continue and you are prepared to back him up if such treatment becomes unbearable and he decides to quit or explore other options.

 

That being said, the coach's choice of words were wrong and unfortunate in my opinion. However the need to critique may not be wrong. I hope he has been aware of your sons medical condition (as he would need to be when supervising such activity) and your son deserves a pat on the back for his hard work in the face of such adversity. Does that mean his dives or times can lag? Probably not on this team. If this is not a pattern of behavior in the coach then perhaps everyone needs to figure of what happened. If he has been becoming progressively more abusive that is a different issue.

Edited December 31, 2008 by JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst
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[beansprouts]

No, in fact I emailed another mom about it and she agreed that she would be pissed to. Her son has worked for this coach for 2 years, and the mom hasn't seen the coach berate a kid before. He absolutely pushes hard, but not to the point of calling immature names.

 

 

 

So it is an isolated incident.

[PiCO]

[/color]Ds has learned in the past how to stick things out. Swimming is all about dropping mere seconds off 20 minute, mile long events. They spend 5-6 days a week swimming and training, to drop fractions of seconds sometimes. You don't become a swimmer if you are a quitter. No one on the team carries a swimmer, it is only you and what you can do. He has perseverance and ambition. These kids are pushed to the breaking point, this coach just pushed too far...and ds's spirit broke. You don't just get over that.

 

 

I've been wondering- has the coach contacted you about your phone call last night quitting? If this is an isolated incident, I wouldn't be surprised if the coach called to apologize.

 

I do think you made the right decision though. I just hope the coach learns a lesson also.

[unsinkable]

Have you ever had mono? Do you realize how dangerous it is to overtax yourself? One of my friends had to have her spleen removed because she didn't take it seriously. We are not talking about a cold here, we are talking about a serious, potentially chronic and life altering illness. I am not kidding about the not getting out of bed thing. We were actually close to hospitalizing my husband because he was so sick. To tell you the truth, he has not been the same and it was 17 years ago. Dh is no whiny baby when he is sick. He is one of those "perfect attendence" kind of guys. Nearly dropping out of college is not taken lightly either. Not only would it have been a huge financial hit to have wasted a semester's tuition, I would have rather walked on hot coals than admit failure, even for health reasons.

 

That is not germaine to my point. I'm sharing my perspective about how some coaches think. The boy was at practice...that is what the coach saw. For some coaches (and I am speculating that this coach is like this), you are are at practice unless you are in bed. Once you are at practice, you give it your all. It doesn't matter to them why you were gone. If you're back, you're back.

[Hillary in KS]

I just asked ds 13 (who is also a competitive swimmer) about this situation, and asked what he would do.

 

His first question: "Well, just how bad was the kid's dive?" :)

 

He then went on to say that he would probably tell the coach that his comment hurt his feelings, but he didn't think it would be something to quit the team over.

 

Women and men handle things differently, and I'd definitely run this through dh and ds' manly filters and let them handle it. I think I agree with my ds, and also pqr's comments.

 

Were I the OP, and had already called the coach, I'd call him back and speak to *him* (not voice mail) to tell him I'd overreacted. If I were to say anything, I would maybe address the disabled comment, letting him know that I thought that was over the line, but I might not even do that.

 

The Mama Bear instinct is a fierce one, but with a 14 yo ds, my concern would be with how to help ds handle the situation and the criticism. This is a great teaching situation for dh and ds to work through how a man responds to embarrassment, hurt, criticism, etc. There'll be much more of it throughout his life, and mommy won't always be there to handle it.

[Tap]

 

So it is an isolated incident.

 

For our son, yes it seems isolated.

 

But unfortunately, because this coach has created an environment of 'a little goes a long way' with his comments, this onecomment, has the impact of many. He created this power of his words, he just lost that power with ds.

 

Swimmers have thier head in the water. They don't listen to what is said to other swimmers. They are in constant motion, they have 2-5 second breaks between sets. Coaches yell a name, give a comment and the other swimmers can't really hear it unless they strain to. They aren't worried about other kids, they are concentrating on what set they are doing and trying to remember it. There are 20 other kids swimming at the same time, the pool literally sounds like an ocean when the kids are in practice. Then they are on the go again. Unless the comment is made to them directly, or to someone in their lane, they aren't likely to hear it. Ds's situation was different because they were diving. Everyone was stopped. Everyone heard.

 

This isn't a case of a momma bear, ds pushed himself hard, he has maintained his spot on the team, despite the mono. To be on the Sr State/Sectional team is earned not given. He is the one who got him self to where he is at. By thousands of hours of hard work. These kids push to the point of exhaustion day after day. A quality coach recognizes when the kids are to the breaking point. A quality coach encourages, criticizes, and draws the best out of athletes. The coach screwed up, maybe only once, but it was the wrong kid on the wrong day. The coach has the personal responsibility to not screw up the kids. He crossed that line. He broke ds's spirit. He lost his respect. Going back isn't going to fix that, the coach lost something that he won't get back. He is the main coach for this level. Ds will not look at him the same way for a very long time, if ever. You can't push as hard as these swimmers do, and not respect who is pushing you. Ds wouldn't have to like him, he will have to respect him.

 

With the little kids parents often sit pool side, but most parents (especially in an outdoor pool) do not. So, we don't hear the comments made to the older swimmers.

Edited December 31, 2008 by Tap, tap, tap

[beansprouts]

This isn't a case of a momma bear, ds pushed himself hard, he has maintained his spot on the team, despite the mono. To be on the Sr State/Sectional team is earned not given. He is the one who got him self to where he is at. By thousands of hours of hard work. These kids push to the point of exhaustion day after day.

 

I respect your choice, and I can see that your son is becoming a very strong young man who doesn't give up easily.

 

So will he have the same opportunities on a new team? I would hate to think he would lose all that hard work.

Edited December 31, 2008 by beansprouts

[unsinkable]

For our son, yes it seems isolated.

 

But unfortunately, because this coach has created an environment of 'a little goes a long way' with his comments, this onecomment, has the impact of many. He created this power of his words, he just lost that power with ds.

 

Swimmers have thier head in the water. They don't listen to what is said to other swimmers. They are in constant motion, they have 2-5 second breaks between sets. Coaches yell a name, give a comment and the other swimmers can't really hear it unless they strain to. They aren't worried about other kids, they are concentrating on what set they are doing and trying to remember it. There are 20 other kids swimming at the same time, the pool literally sounds like an ocean when the kids are in practice. Then they are on the go again. Unless the comment is made to them directly, or to someone in their lane, they aren't likely to hear it. Ds's situation was different because they were diving. Everyone was stopped. Everyone heard.

 

This isn't a case of a momma bear, ds pushed himself hard, he has maintained his spot on the team, despite the mono. To be on the Sr State/Sectional team is earned not given. He is the one who got him self to where he is at. By thousands of hours of hard work. These kids push to the point of exhaustion day after day. A quality coach recognizes when the kids are to the breaking point. A quality coach encourages, criticizes, and draws the best out of athletes. The coach screwed up, maybe only once, but it was the wrong kid on the wrong day. The coach has the personal responsibility to not screw up the kids. He crossed that line. He broke ds's spirit. He lost his respect. Going back isn't going to fix that, the coach lost something that he won't get back. He is the main coach for this level. Ds will not look at him the same way for a very long time, if ever. You can't push as hard as these swimmers do, and not respect who is pushing you. Ds wouldn't have to like him, he will have to respect him.

 

With the little kids parents often sit pool side, but most parents (especially in an outdoor pool) do not. So, we don't hear the comments made to the older swimmers.

 

I'm saying this very gently, ds is going to work that hard and then be beaten by one (albeit powerful) comment?

[pqr]

[/color] These kids are pushed to the breaking point, this coach just pushed too far...and ds's spirit broke. You don't just get over that.

 

 

 

 

Tap,

 

Beansprouts perhaps put it best when she stated "I am a Mama Bear with sharp claws and teeth. If anybody hurts one of my children they are likely to get torn to pieces." I suspect that this is where you are.

 

He is your son and he will do, and should do, as you decide, but excuses, justifications, red typeface and everything else aside a few words drove him from a team. He has lost the opportunity to be coached by what you describe as a superb coach, he will have to live with this.

 

You state, If you don't like the situation your in, don't stand by an let someone kick you when your down. Stand up, and dust your self off, and then change your situation, I agree. Climb back on that horse, prove the coach wrong by doing better.

 

What is worse and what would eventually resonate with many boys is (your words) These kids are pushed to the breaking point, this coach just pushed too far...and ds's spirit broke.. That would be hard for any boy to live with. I suspect that your son may need your support in that one, because this (sense of failure in that his spirit broke), far more than anything else can hurt. Indeed you stated You don't just get over that. It is for this reason that I would never have allowed my son to quit.

 

Boys are not kind and, alas your son may also have to live with the jibes of those who remained on the team. You can, I suspect, imagine what they will say, as will those on the new team.

 

What is he learning: to not let anyone push you around, I would beg to disagree. From my perspective (no offense meant) it looks like he is backing off from an unpleasant situation rather than facing it.

 

I have many friends, some not much older than your son, in the military. Perhaps this is why I look at the entire incident in a different light. What was said to your son has no comparison to what boys as little as 3 years older endure in basic training. Incidentally they do survive this and generally come out better men. Further what was said bears no comparison to what boys say to each other, even those as young as 14.

 

I understand your anger, I sympathise, but I think you are being too thin skinned.

 

I wish you and your son the best and hope this works out well.

 

Sincerely pqr

[Tap]

I'm saying this very gently, ds is going to work that hard and then be beaten by one (albeit powerful) comment?

 

I think ds just hit the breaking point. Ds has was giving 110%, and now he feels like it was all for nothing, and it wasn't good enough, that he is 'worthless' at swimming in his coaches eyes. He had given up everything else in his life to do this sport, and he was at the wall. A little encouragement was what he needed, even if it was a simple comment after practice "you struggled today, and your dive suffered, but I know your working hard, keep working and you'll come back stronger." He didn't have to lie and say he did good, ds knows how he dove, there is no disillusionment there. It was how the coach decided to 'coach' the moment.

 

The coach just gave the wrong comment to the wrong kid on the wrong day. He broke his spirit.

 

I can't undo what the coach did. He chose his words and they can't be erased. It is one of those moments in life, that ds will probably never forget. He has so much emotion around it. He feels so defeated and let down by his coach.

[Lakeside]

The coach's comment bothers me on two levels. First, it was such destructive criticism for your DS in particular, but second, and to me, more important, what an amazing display of ignorance, prejudice, and insensitivity towards those who are disabled. He may fancy himself a national-caliber coach but I doubt a national-caliber coach would last long if such comments were overheard by the media! And I hardly view him as a good role model for young athletes.

:iagree:

This is wrong on so many levels. I'm sorry you all are dealing with this and I hope you are able to find another team for your son.:grouphug:

[dawn of ns]

A male perspective, and yes I know that I will be very unpopular after posting this.

 

Get over it.

 

1. The coach may have been a little rough, but so what. life is rough and if the worst thing that ever happens to a 14 year old is getting put down (yes I admit harshly and publicly) by a man he respects than he is a very lucky 14 year old.

 

Excusing bad things by saying worse things happen isn't great logic. It was okay that that guy hit another guy with a wrench because it could have been worse. Could've been a car. I'd like to see that defense to an assault charge.

 

The coach was a jerk and needs that pointed out. The guy is an adult and should be able to control himself or, failing that, take it when someone reams him out for being a jerk. You come too close to excusing the coach in my mind.

 

2. By pulling the boy from the team what have you taught him? You certainly did not teach him to stick it out, even after all the other hard work he had put in. I would under no circumstances let my boy leave the team.

 

*shrug* And the comment by others could be that by not letting your son leave the team you're teaching to him that he has to take the crap others dump on him.

 

I actually agree that he shouldn't have been pulled from the team but I don't agree with your reasoning.

 

3. Today's coaches who fill their practice sessions with "atta boys," "way to go," and "good try" do little to create adults and much to generate today's generation of mamby-pamby boys who expect praise even when they do not deserve it. Your coach, who is sparse with his praise, has helped generate (and I am sure that you have done far more than the coach) in your son a work ethic and a realistic understanding that praise when given has been earned. He should be thanked for this.

 

Noting that there is an extreme at the other end of the spectrum doesn't prove anything. There is in fact a wide middle ground where most good coaches operate where praise isn't overdone and kids are not insulted.

 

4. You never told us, was your son diving badly? If so then while the verbiage used may have been, in today's rather soft environment, harsh; the criticism may have been justified.

 

The problem is equating an insult with critcism. Real critcism points out faults and gives the person real information to build on. "You're useless," IS useless.

 

5. Does the coach say this type of thing to other boys? If so then it is an accepted practice and you really do not have much to complain about.

 

If something is accepted practice that makes it automatically okay? If everyone else jumps off a bridge are you going to join them? How does that thinking give a kid a firm foundation for ethical reasoning and moral choices outside of the swimming pool?

 

6. What are the other boys on the team going to say to and about your son? To be honest by leaving the team your son, not the coach, is letting his teammates down.

 

Again, "Make decisions based on what others may think of you," isn't something I think the OP or her son needs to consider.

 

What I agree with you on - the son shouln't be pulled. These kind of situations DO pop up a lot and he needs to learn to deal with it properly.

 

To the OP - I'd arrange to speak with the coach about this and make it plain that if he thinks you should expect that kind of behaviour in the future, then you're gone. Otherwise, your son would appreciate a clear criticism of what he was doing wrong.

 

Keep in mind that the coach may have been dealing with stuff you don't know about. If this behaviour is out of character then I think he needs to be given the benefit of the doubt and a chance to repair his relationship with your son. But also needs the full impact of what he did laid out for him.

 

This won't be the first time this happens to your son. But the answer to that isn't to simply lie down and take it or to walk away but rather to work through this with the coach and see if it can be fixed.

Edited December 31, 2008 by dawn of ns

[Bee]

Other swim teams, other coaches.Maybe it's just time to try somewhere and someone else.The best teacher in the world isn't the best for every single person.Your son may find another place and another coach that work better for him.If your son doesn't want to stay with that coach then switch.Isn't that kind of like keeping your child in a bad school situation for him just because the school gets high scores on standardized tests?It doesn't necessarily mean your child will get high scores,especially if he is unhappy and stressed by it.

[mcconnellboys]

I'd definitely communicate this immediately to the coach. And if he's not the head coach, I'd probably communicate all of it to the head coach, as well. Your son does sound absolutely awesome. Swimming is a thankless, hugely time consuming sport. To swim as he has AND OUTSIDE, which I've never even heard of in our area of the country, during a course of mono, is absolutely phenomenal. Any college coach should prick up his ears over such a kid.

 

I allowed my son to stay in a group with an absolutely horrid coach for an entire year and it almost killed his love of swimming completely. He lost time all year. I had to FORCE him to leave the team and move to another this year.

 

His coach now is a wonderful, respectful man that is a true leader and just leaches leadership skills into these kids as they're around him. Now, we really don't want a swim scholarship. And I don't even know where he is right now with relation to state cuts, because I haven't looked yet this year. But he LOVES swimming again, he's happy on a daily basis with his entire team, his coach is both stern AND kind, and he's learning valuable life lessons from being with this team. There's no need of cuelty in imposing a stern work ethic. I see this man do it every day without ever a hint of cruelty. He even swims WITH the kids sometimes, doing the same workout as them.

 

Protect your son. Don't allow his love of swimming to be damaged. Don't allow a poor coach to damage his self-esteem, either. Swimming is already too hard and too thankless for a coach not to reward the efforts of kids who are really trying - even through illness.

 

Blessings to you as we move into a new year!

[lionfamily1999]

What a total jerk head.

:iagree:

[Jean in Newcastle]

The coach was out of line. He was unprofessional. His comments wouldn't be tolerated "in public" and should not be tolerated in this setting. Not only that, but it is just bad coaching. Yes, a coach should know how and when to push. But that wasn't the way to do it.

[Tammyla]

I think the comment was so out of line in any situation. He owes everyone an apology.

Edited December 31, 2008 by Tammyla

[pqr]

Originally Posted by pqr

 

 

pqr in blue:

Dawn in black

A male perspective, and yes I know that I will be very unpopular after posting this.

 

Get over it.

 

1. The coach may have been a little rough, but so what. life is rough and if the worst thing that ever happens to a 14 year old is getting put down (yes I admit harshly and publicly) by a man he respects than he is a very lucky 14 year old.

Excusing bad things by saying worse things happen isn't great logic. It was okay that that guy hit another guy with a wrench because it could have been worse. Could've been a car. I'd like to see that defense to an assault charge.

 

The coach was a jerk and needs that pointed out. The guy is an adult and should be able to control himself or, failing that, take it when someone reams him out for being a jerk. You come too close to excusing the coach in my mind.

 

 

Quote:

2. By pulling the boy from the team what have you taught him? You certainly did not teach him to stick it out, even after all the other hard work he had put in. I would under no circumstances let my boy leave the team.

*shrug* And the comment by others could be that by not letting your son leave the team you're teaching to him that he has to take the crap others dump on him.

 

I actually agree that he shouldn't have been pulled from the team but I don't agree with your reasoning.

 

 

Quote:

3. Today's coaches who fill their practice sessions with "atta boys," "way to go," and "good try" do little to create adults and much to generate today's generation of mamby-pamby boys who expect praise even when they do not deserve it. Your coach, who is sparse with his praise, has helped generate (and I am sure that you have done far more than the coach) in your son a work ethic and a realistic understanding that praise when given has been earned. He should be thanked for this.

Noting that there is an extreme at the other end of the spectrum doesn't prove anything. There is in fact a wide middle ground where most good coaches operate where praise isn't overdone and kids are not insulted.

 

 

Quote:

4. You never told us, was your son diving badly? If so then while the verbiage used may have been, in today's rather soft environment, harsh; the criticism may have been justified.

The problem is equating an insult with critcism. Real critcism points out faults and gives the person real information to build on. "You're useless," IS useless.

 

 

Quote:

5. Does the coach say this type of thing to other boys? If so then it is an accepted practice and you really do not have much to complain about.

If something is accepted practice that makes it automatically okay? If everyone else jumps off a bridge are you going to join them? How does that thinking give a kid a firm foundation for ethical reasoning and moral choices outside of the swimming pool?

 

 

Quote:

6. What are the other boys on the team going to say to and about your son? To be honest by leaving the team your son, not the coach, is letting his teammates down.

Again, "Make decisions based on what others may think of you," isn't something I think the OP or her son needs to consider.

.

 

Come on Dawn, this was not a case of jumping off a bridge or hitting people with wrenches It defies logic (or perhaps to quote you I should say "isn't great logic") to look at what happened and then argue on the mythical case of a physical assault with a deadly weapon. This really is a case of comparing apples and oranges. This was simply a coach who made a few inapproprate comments.

 

Regarding the idea of "If something is accepted practice that makes it automatically okay?"... No it does not, but if you join a team, indeed follow a coach who behaves like that then you can not complain. You went in with your eyes open.

 

As far as "Make decisions based on what others may think of you," we all live in this world and this is a consideration especially for a 14 year boy. Further respect is something that is lost when you quit a team over a few words.

 

On the spectrum comment. I was not referring to the extreme end, I was referring to the norm. Yes, I far prefer the style of coaching displayed, OBVIOUSLY without the last tirade. Would that it were the middle ground.

 

Unsinkable put it best, and most kindly...

I'm saying this very gently, ds is going to work that hard and then be beaten by one (albeit powerful) comment?