ASD, internet addiction, and PS-issued Chromebook

[Quarter Note]

Time to delete for privacy.  Thank you.

 

Edited January 3 by Quarter Note

[lmrich]

A short reply -  you can  change the internet password at night. Your dh can still access it.  

Sometimes things are going to be hard. Internet addiction/gaming addiction is serious. You might want to get professional help. 

[Quarter Note]

Thank you, @lmrich.  We are getting professional help.  It's just not doing much and it's simply not fast enough.

[Katy]

You might need to change the router to change the wifi password morning and night. 

Another option is changing his IEP so that he has no homework and cannot take the chromebook home. I’d probably do both. Our school district has chromebooks for every kid and I get emails about every site each kid visited in the past week AND every search term used, so it is possible for them to do a better job at tracking this. It sounds to me like the last thing he needs is internet, especially if he’s obsessed with weapons and violence. 

[Quarter Note]

@Katy, I love your suggestion for changing the IEP.  The school keeps dragging their feet on even getting one in place!  We'll be sending an e-mail to the special ed coordinator before the next semester starts, and I'll see if they'll do your suggestions (though I'm not going to get up hope.).

[Lecka]

Whatever the school hasn’t been willing to do, they haven’t been willing to do “yet.”  
 

I think really investigate options to escalate with the school.  Can you get an IEP advocate.  Is there an alternative school that might work for him.  There are often options that are not possible just by talking to teachers and the counselor.  They are possible by IEPs, documenting problems, etc etc.  

 

Also, at a certain point, if he’s not doing his homework anyway, there’s no reason to justify him having the laptop after school.  However — that doesn’t solve your problem of getting it away from him.  I don’t have a suggestion.  I am just agreeing — it doesn’t make sense and the school process being recommended makes no sense for your situation.  

[*****]

This sounds very difficult, I'm sorry you are going through this. I agree with Katy, those sound like good ideas, especially not bringing Chromebook home in the first place.  

20 minutes ago, Quarter Note said:

And I am more angry than I can say that the school handed him an internet device without any way for us parents to keep tabs on what he’s feeding his mind with.

Probably most parents aren't aware of this and they should be.  Speaking to the principal about this should be number 1.  If he doesn't do anything, get yourself on the agenda for school board meetings, educating other parents about this and asking administrators to  change this. Repeat your request monthly if they do nothing.  At least you are doing your part in trying to keep all kids safe, not just your own. And hopefully other parents will see the need to help make a change. These are just a few ideas, I look forward to what others have to say.  

[Lecka]

Okay, sometimes people are better off to keep things in the sphere of “my kid is still within the usual kids” and operate within those limits.  
 

Sometimes people are better off to be like — no, we are going to say upsetting things and bother people at school, because whether it’s recognized or not, this is not a usual situation and can’t be handled within the usual situation.  
 

So — is he really functioning well in school in many ways?  Is he really going along with the school routine and participating?  Or are you just not being told about problems.  If he’s really functioning well at school in many ways, that is a situation that is different than if he’s not doing well at school but it’s not at the point you are being told about it.  
 

Is he aggressive towards your husband as well, can your husband be the one to enforce things with him for a while?  
 

Definitely look at library books about IEP advocacy.  It is really set up that you have to do things in that way.  Talking to a teacher or talking to a counselor are just not ways (often) to handle this process.  It seems like it would be, but often it’s not.  


It sounds like you have private providers.  What do they think, have you told them about school, can they recommend an IEP advocate, etc.  Can they write a letter for you to help with the IEP, etc.  

 

Coming from homeschool, realistically is this an issue where it has escalated, or is this an issue where similar kids would have been identified at a younger age.  This can make a difference with how you’re responded to, they may be used to a paper trail and minimize things because — wouldn’t there be a paper trail.   But I think point that out!!!!!!!

[bookbard]

I don't have any practical solutions but do want to give my sympathy. I went to the psych with my child this year and tried to get her to back me up on internet limits. Nope. Was told in front of child that she was intellectually about 19 so therefore we had to back off and give her internet freedom. Well, she is gifted, but she's 12 and has no life experience. I don't think she's googling porn (I know she isn't - I have qustodio on her device), but I want fewer hours before bedtime so she sleeps! I feel like some of the psychs just don't have the experience in this field. A friend of mine whose child also has both ADHD and Autism was told to allow her son on instagram so that he could be part of the social scene. As you can imagine it ended up with major bullying because he could not understand the social nuances. 

You are in an even more stressful situation in the USA because guns are accessible. My kids make jokes about guns as 'dark humour', but of course over here they've never even seen one and probably never will. I feel for you and I really hope you find someone to listen to you. 

[kcw87]

I have a kid who needs to have Internet usage restricted heavily & frequently.

If the school is using a Google account for the students, you can do this:

 

1. Powerwash the Chromebook. (You will have to find a way to login once to do this. The school IT people should definitely be able to access his password if it is a school-issued email account.

 

2. Create a personal Google account for your son, supervised by your Google account.

 

3. Login to the Chromebook with the personal account, and use Family Link (the Google parental supervision tool) to:

 

Restrict profile creation.

Restrict guest browsing.

Restrict websites and apps.

You can also lock & unlock devices from Family Link.

 

For all of these steps, it is pretty easy to find instructions on the internet. It takes a little time to set up, but it is worth it for me to be able to have a completely school-focused device that I can shut off at anytime. Hope this helps, good luck!

[almondbutterandjelly]

I have no advice except pay attention to your mama gut.  ((hugs))

[AmandaVT]

1 hour ago, Quarter Note said:

@Katy, I love your suggestion for changing the IEP.  The school keeps dragging their feet on even getting one in place!  We'll be sending an e-mail to the special ed coordinator before the next semester starts, and I'll see if they'll do your suggestions (though I'm not going to get up hope.).

Has he had an eval? There are legal time limits in place for a school team to move on an IEP. 

If you request a meeting to discuss an IEP, the team has 15 days to set it up. Then, they have 60 days to complete an evaluation for special education and hold the eligibility meeting. This link is VT-specific, but much of the info should still be relevant. 

[Ausmumof3]

I may be totally wrong but I feel like focusing on connection might be the most critical thing here? My DH and I married very young. He went through a stage where he and many mates were into first person shooter games and at night that was all he was doing. I was angry and frustrated. What I ended up doing was sitting with him, watching him play, commentating 😂😂😂 

He got through the game and quit playing and never started a new one. No idea if anything I did made a difference or he just had a non-addictive personality. 
 

I don’t have experience with ASD but I feel like figuring out a way for you or your DH to connect over his interests is going to be more productive than trying to control the situation. I also like the idea of looking for professional help to manage it. 

[freesia]

Get a wi-fi router and turn off his internet access. 
 

He needs to turn in his computer to you at bedtime. If you are afraid of him and so he can do whatever he wants that is not a safe healthy dynamic. He is being abusive. Your dh needs to step in. He needs consequences. There is absolutely no reason for him to stop doing exactly what he wants right now. 
 

He 100% needs to give you access to the computer. In my house, I would confiscate the computer until that happens. If he then in violent, I would deal with that. By placating him you are avoiding the fact that he is violent when he doesn’t get what he wants and you are not teaching him another way. He needs counseling and you need counseling to figure out how to make your way through this. 
 

Your dh can do his work another way (porting from a cell phone?). Why isn’t he helping with this?

 

[freesia]

1 hour ago, AmandaVT said:

Has he had an eval? There are legal time limits in place for a school team to move on an IEP. 

If you request a meeting to discuss an IEP, the team has 15 days to set it up. Then, they have 60 days to complete an evaluation for special education and hold the eligibility meeting. This link is VT-specific, but much of the info should still be relevant. 

This. There are time limits. They aren’t allowed to put off the IEP meeting. 

[freesia]

2 hours ago, ***** said:

This sounds very difficult, I'm sorry you are going through this. I agree with Katy, those sound like good ideas, especially not bringing Chromebook home in the first place.  

Probably most parents aren't aware of this and they should be.  Speaking to the principal about this should be number 1.  If he doesn't do anything, get yourself on the agenda for school board meetings, educating other parents about this and asking administrators to  change this. Repeat your request monthly if they do nothing.  At least you are doing your part in trying to keep all kids safe, not just your own. And hopefully other parents will see the need to help make a change. These are just a few ideas, I look forward to what others have to say.  

Yes. 

[Pam in CT]

re "starting the clock" to effect changes in the IEP

3 hours ago, AmandaVT said:

Has he had an eval? There are legal time limits in place for a school team to move on an IEP. 

If you request a meeting to discuss an IEP, the team has 15 days to set it up. Then, they have 60 days to complete an evaluation for special education and hold the eligibility meeting. This link is VT-specific, but much of the info should still be relevant. 

 

1 hour ago, freesia said:

This. There are time limits. They aren’t allowed to put off the IEP meeting. 

This.

ALL requests related to the IEP need to be *in writing,* not through calling or stopping by to chat with the teacher / special ed professional / principal.  The clock only starts with written requests (for changes, for a status meeting, for additional assessment, etc).  These are the timelines under Connecticut state law & state DOE guidelines, but all state rules have to nestle within IDEA federal law, so the basic process is similar (though not identical; we have had several state-level settlements that affect our guidelines) across all states.

[Lecka]

This is really true.  Things are just chatting or conversation if you are not following the IEP process.  
 

Or put another way, you have tried chatting and conversation, and that level has not been sufficient or satisfactory.  It would be for a lot of people.  It’s not for you — it’s time to take it up to an IEP advocacy level.  
 

This is things like sending an official letter to request an evaluation for an IEP.  
 

This is things like keeping records and sending e-mail summaries and cc-ing them to people.  
 

For example — for a while with one of my kids, all my emails between myself and a teacher were cc-ed to the principal on both sides.  
 

Was it totally appropriate for the principal to be in the loop on my son’s situation at this level?  Yes.  
 

Does it mean he read every email, or more that there was a paper trail for the teacher and myself?  Yes.  
 

Then things got resolved in a lot of ways and it’s just not necessary.  (Aka — my son’s behavior issues improved…. They were at a level it was appropriate for the principal to be aware of what was going on, and what steps were being tried, and for the teacher and I to both want a paper trail.)  
 

There is not automatically any communication or follow-up from chatting or conversations.  It is often just not necessary.  If it’s necessary then it’s very needed, and following IEP advocacy is the mechanism.

 

Ironically something good about that situation was that the school also thought it was a problem and took it seriously!!!!!!!  I was not getting blown off.  The IEP advocacy process was still the way for me to show “hey I’m acting in a professional way and I’m taking this seriously.”  There was also a high level of needing to coordinate between home, school, and private therapy, which is a lot of moving parts. 

[Quarter Note]

14 hours ago, ***** said:

Probably most parents aren't aware of this and they should be.  

*****, you are absolutely right about going to school board meetings, etc. - but I don't have this kind of fight left in me.  Maybe in a few years...  

[Quarter Note]

14 hours ago, bookbard said:

I feel like some of the psychs just don't have the experience in this field.

Oh, bookbard, I don't want to quote what you shared but I am also shocked at what you were told!   Thank you for your sympathy, too.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Quarter Note

[ScoutTN]

Seconding turning the internet off via the router. Your internet provider has an app that will do this easily from a phone. Very easy with a smartphone.

If there is violence or physical damage in a meltdown, you and your Dh should be prepared to call the police. 

[Quarter Note]

13 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I may be totally wrong but I feel like focusing on connection might be the most critical thing here?

Ausmumof3, I don't want to quote what you shared but I really want to say that I admire you for what you did.  It was very strong of you to be so fully present with your husband when he was engaging in that behavior.  Your presence said to him, "Come back to real life.  Make better choices with your time."

I'd like to think that that might help with my son, but I'm not sure.  First of all, he would scream at me if I sat next to him while he was playing his games...

[Hilltopmom]

Having dealt with this ourselves mostly by hoping it would go away- you need to intervene. Don’t wait until he’s even bigger and older.

Let the psych know what you’re going to do (take away devices), make a safety plan with them for how to react when your child gets violent (you will call crisis team, or ambulance, police, etc)- transport to hospital for in patient psych hold, etc.

the computer addiction won’t go away on its own & if you’re not dealing with it because of worry about your safety, you need a solid plan.

I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this and yes, it’s not common knowledge how to treat. Throw in the ASD and ODD and people don’t know what to do.

There are meds to help with the violence and instability that could be trialed during an inpatient pediatric psych hold. 

There are facilities that handle internet addiction but they’re pricey.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Hilltopmom

[Quarter Note]

Deleted for privacy.  Thank you.

Edited January 3 by Quarter Note

[Ausmumof3]

13 minutes ago, Quarter Note said:

Ausmumof3, I don't want to quote what you shared but I really want to say that I admire you for what you did.  It was very strong of you to be so fully present with your husband when he was engaging in that behavior.  Your presence said to him, "Come back to real life.  Make better choices with your time."

I'd like to think that that might help with my son, but I'm not sure.  First of all, he would scream at me if I sat next to him while he was playing his games...

That makes sense, I think ASD plus parental relationship probably makes it different. I hope you do find the key though. I’m finding these teen years something else 

[pinball]

3 minutes ago, Quarter Note said:

We sadly just want to protect ourselves until our kids go to college or jail and leave us alone so we can be happy again.

This is an abdication of your moral and (probably legal) parental responsibilities.

[maize]

We use Google Nest wifi and I can control it through an app on my phone; this lets me turn it on and off to individual devices or groups of devices at will. 

[maize]

3 minutes ago, pinball said:

This is an abdication of your moral and (probably legal) parental responsibilities.

The stark reality is that no human, even a parent, has actual control over the behavior of another human. 

Particularly once our kids are near adult-size, sometimes all we can do is try to protect ourselves. 

And where neurodivergence and mental illness are both at play, there is no amount of either reasoning or attempted consequences that is guaranteed results. Brains don't always function in a rational way, and rationality is necessary to understand cause and effect and to make consequence-informed choices.

Recognizing the limits of one's power in a situation isn't abdication of responsibility. It's recognition of reality.

[freesia]

7 minutes ago, Quarter Note said:

To everyone regarding the IEP:  I feel completely in the dark about what has really happened.  We had a big, huge meeting at the school - me, my husband, my son, and about eight school people.  We talked about accommodations.  Someone send me notes afterwards.  Did I sign off on an "IEP"?  I don't know.  They haven't been very clear about anything.

Regarding my husband and me being united on this:  absolutely.  

( let me know if you want me to delete more of this quote)

Quarter Note, all that is so hard.  I apologize if I didn’t come off as sympathetic. I was posting at night after a long drive. You are in a really really hard place. I absolutely believe it’s exhausting and frightening. All I really wanted to emphasize is that the screen issue isn’t the thing Is focus on. You seem to be asking if we know a way to get that under control without you getting hurt. I don’t think we can help with that. The school can’t either. I think you know that. I think you should be considering something like inpatient evaluation/med trials or intensive out patient therapy ( where they live at home but spend the day in therapy.)

as exhausting as it is, I think you should call the school and find out what type of meeting you had—IEP? 504?  

[Pam in CT]

(( @Quarter Note ))   Holding you, your husband, your son and the rest of your family in the light.  This is so, so, so very hard.

 

On the specific question of the outcome of the meeting you attended / whether or not your son has an "IEP" vs 504 or informal accommodations...

17 minutes ago, Quarter Note said:

To everyone regarding the IEP:  I feel completely in the dark about what has really happened.  We had a big, huge meeting at the school - me, my husband, my son, and about eight school people.  We talked about accommodations.  Someone send me notes afterwards.  Did I sign off on an "IEP"?  I don't know.  They haven't been very clear about anything....

... as soon as possible -- before the holiday break is over -- send a formal request in writing for a copy of the minutes/notes of the meeting, including the decisions taken and planned next steps.  (This can be as short and sweet as

Quote

dear [principal]

Hope you had a restful break. I am writing to formally request a copy of the minutes/notes of our meeting of [date], including the decisions taken and planned next steps. 

regards, quarternote

Once you have that in hand, you can loop back for more on the differences between IEP v 504 v informal accommodations; and also -- if the outcome of the meeting was that the school is *developing* an IEP, input on how to affect what is in it.

 

 

ETA because of the way the mandatory clocks under IDEA function, I would strongly advise that you write, rather than call

4 minutes ago, freesia said:

...as exhausting as it is, I think you should call the school and find out what type of meeting you had—IEP? 504?  

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Pam in CT

[freesia]

2 minutes ago, maize said:

The stark reality is that no human, even a parent, has actual control over the behavior of another human. 

Particularly once our kids are near adult-size, sometimes all we can do is try to protect ourselves. 

And where neurodivergence and mental illness are both at play, there is no amount of either reasoning or attempted consequences that is guaranteed results. Brains don't always function in a rational way, and rationality is necessary to understand cause and effect and to make consequence-informed choices.

Recognizing the limits of one's power in a situation isn't abdication of responsibility. It's recognition of reality.

I agree with this, but I’ve also seen irl that the neurodivergent kids who had consequences had better outcome than the ones who didn’t even try bc i”they wouldn’t work” I know this isn’t what you are saying—to not even try. I think you are saying we can’t control whether they work. It’s just that they can work and children feel safer when they aren’t in control. 

[pinball]

8 minutes ago, maize said:

The stark reality is that no human, even a parent, has actual control over the behavior of another human. 

Particularly once our kids are near adult-size, sometimes all we can do is try to protect ourselves. 

And where neurodivergence and mental illness are both at play, there is no amount of either reasoning or attempted consequences that is guaranteed results. Brains don't always function in a rational way, and rationality is necessary to understand cause and effect and to make consequence-informed choices.

Recognizing the limits of one's power in a situation isn't abdication of responsibility. It's recognition of reality.

She wants to hide until the kids go to jail or college. 

This is the 2nd time she’s posted something to that effect

She’s talking about a 12 yo and 14 yo.

I’m glad to see you condone it. 
 

What will you say when the kids turn on each other? Just let Lord of the Flies behavior reign?

Sickening, just vile

 

 

[City Mouse]

I’m not sure the following is helpful, but I do want you to know that there are other people going through this.

My sister is in a similar situation with a son with many special needs. She is the physical target for his anger, and the police have been called to her home many times. The most difficult part is that even when they/the police want him in a facility, the few facilities that take kids his age are nearly always full. One time, the boy had to be taken 3 hrs away in the back of a police car to a hospital with the father following behind in his own car. The saddest part to me is that this boy’s brain is truly broken (he was adopted from Extreme abuse and drug exposure) and there is no good way to get him the help he needs. My sister is just biding her time until he turns 17/18 and will enter the adult criminal justice system. She is so broken down that she doesn’t see any other way out, and I don’t see one for her either.

As I think about it more, I have had three different extended family members go through serious mental health challenges with kids ( all were adopted from foster care from abuse situations) that resulted in frequent police visits in 2 different states. It is a shame that our system has so little resources to help the kids and parents. 

All the IEPs in the world, meeting all the deadlines and following all the rules, didn’t do anything to help at home. My sister and her now ex are both sped teachers. A different family member with a different kid was also a SPED teacher. You can focus on fighting with the school, but that won’t make much difference. My sister does what she needs to do at home even when the school wants to handle things a different way. 
 

The only good thing I can think of in my sister’s case is that the boy doesn’t target his siblings. Another family member with a different child, allowed the boy to terrorize his sibling to the point that the sibling left home as soon as she could and avoids any contact with the now adult brother. 

[EKS]

I would inform the school that you will be turning in his school issued computer because it is being used for inappropriate activities and wreaking havoc on your home life.  Then have it written into his IEP that he will complete all homework either at school (preferred) or at home without a computer.

I think it is ridiculous that schools issue devices that they then expect the parents to set and enforce boundaries around.

That said, to some extent you can use the router to manage your son's internet use.  You can set time limits on his particular device, change the password, and if all else fails, unplug it and take it to bed with you each night (ask me how I know about this last one!).

[maize]

From one parent of neurodivergent sons who are larger than me to another, I see you.

I know the struggle.

My thoughts on things you might be able to do:

Absolutely get an IEP if one isn't already in place. Find out if there are parent advocates in your state. Join parent groups for your area or in general for kids with ASD; check for these on Facebook. Since his disability is impacting his ability to succeed in school, he should qualify for an IEP but you may have to fight for it--some schools make it hard when the kid is bright and intellectually capable. "No homework" is a reasonable IEP accommodation--one of my kids had that when they were in school.

Get a wifi router that you can control from an app, and make sure the password you use for that account is a strong password.

Focus on mental health, and on building a relationship. 

Does your son have any extracurriculars? Is he doing anything physical on a regular basis? Those kinds of things can be a huge boost to mental health. Martial arts and theatre are two things that have been good for my kids.

Regarding homeschooling, if you want to consider it again: mental health takes precedence over academics. It has to. We've had years at a time where the primary focus was just mental health. If a kid is depressed, they aren't going to learn much regardless of the school situation. Work on nutrition, physical activity, therapy, or just letting them get enough sleep and keeping stress as low as possible for a period; adolescence can be really, really hard on neurodivergent kids. Several of mine have done well with online, one-on-one tutoring; we've found inexpensive tutors through preply.com (advertises primarily as a language learning site but we've found tutors for every subject). That takes the strain of the parent-child relationship out of the learning equation while still giving the kid the benefit of the focused attention of a teacher.

 

[PeterPan]

As far as the medication, you might look into what is being addressed and how. Irritability in autism is usually dopamine, so going on ADHD meds can make that *worse*. It really depends on their chemistry. The teen years, starting around 12, were HORRIBLY unstable for my ds. Nice was gone, out the window, and it really didn't return till we got him on an appropriate psych med. I hear you on the abusive nature of this and how hard it is to live with. That is chemistry, not rational, so the answer is chemistry. I know when the chemistry in our house is right because my ds becomes nice again. The meds let the person he is inside show.

Then, I will be controversial and suggest that you cannot keep someone from everything. It is possible to go down the weapons road (as they have a healthy place in any culture, especially as a way to get FOOD) and then chain and get it back to a safer place. I'm also a HUGE advocate of safety, so commercial grade locks, no access EVER unsupervised for people who require meds for mood, etc. But whether it's internet or weapons, you're just not going to keep them away permanently. There has to be some learning and supervising. 

My ds has this fascination with coke/pepsi, but it's because he never gets it. When you completely try to shield someone, you set it up as this great lure. 

I'm not saying unsupervised. Ever. But it could be a gun safety course. It could be a hunting license course. It could be attending safety courses taught by a police officer or even joining a shooting club with high quality role models for gun safety. Never ever unsupervised access, but leaning in and doing it in a super respectful, super serious way can tone that down. And meds. 

When my ds' meds are right, he can give up something with warning/pre-announcement. When they are not right, hang it up. My stress level directly connects to his meds not being right and it's not helpful for us to take the blame for someone else's chemistry. There is nothing rational about teen chemistry.

Interoception work has been amazingly beneficial here, so I encourage you to look into how you could make it happen. It can have IEP goals if you can get an OT, SLP, psych, or someone at the school on board.

I love the suggestion to ditch the homework and the chromebook coming home. You have enough trouble without supervising the problems someone else makes. 

For passwords, I add my facial recognition to any device my ds has and he is not allowed to have a device I cannot access. That's just end of discussion. Take it back to the school and have them issue a new one or reset it or whatever so you have the password. That is just total hogwash. Or get access to his email and reset the password. You cannot supervise and help someone when they are that age and able to keep secrets from you. Things can go south so quickly. That's a hill to die on. The thing gets run over by a car. Don't fight with him over it. Just find another way and make it happen.

You may need to take some breaks to yourself. Probably with a break you will feel refreshed and able to problem solve some of this stuff. Sometimes you get caught in the psycho and it's just hard to bust out. Take a break for a couple days, go see someone without any crazy people tagging along. Get your sanity back so you can be the strong person you are able to be. Our behaviorist told me to take a break every 3 months. She had been making data and that was just the data on my reality of how often I needed a sanity break. It could be big or small, swank or free. Just get away and get your centered sense of calm back.

Homeschooling this age? Not a lot of school work, not with this mix, not in our house. We do work, but it's a LOT of work on being sane. Interoception, self regulation, read alouds, anything I can do that engages him. It shifts quite a bit.

School does not solve problems, nor does homeschooling frankly. If school gets you access to a TEAM and you get a vision for what you're trying to make happen and they help you, it's a great thing. Sharing the load is a great thing. I would NEVER want to go it alone. My ds has access to therapies via tele and I make sure he has sessions with someone almost every day of the week, at least one a day, sometimes more. I CANNOT do it alone. If homeschooling in your state/situation would leave you isolated, that would be very unwise. If he goes to school willingly, that's a good thing. If that's the case, then the advice to advocate there and problem solve there is spot on. You would only bring him home if  you could do BETTER or if the school team gets in the way of what needs to happen by having skewed priorities. Like with my ds, if they hyperfocused on academics, stressed him out, and destabilized him as a person, we wouldn't be where we are. So I'm getting done what *I* think is most important. 

I can tell you what *doesn't* work is trusting some professional to solve things. There is no counselor, no psych, where you're going to walk in, plunk your dc an hour a week, and boom this is better. It's a complex situation and you're going to need to understand the issues and advocate hard for your TEAM to work together, all addressing the issues. 

Does he have another minor/secondary interest they could harness in school work? It's not considered wise to use a *primary* perseverative interest in academics but you can use a secondary. I've had therapists who got my ds onto chess. The SLP was a gamer and it occurred to her that a smart gamer might go for chess. My ds now watches chess on youtube, plays chess avidly on his phone, and is quite into it!!

The shooter video games rev their dopamine, which is both why it's addictive/compulsive and why it makes them irritable. So you can use a med to chill some of that (Abilify, which acts on some of the dopamine and chills the irritability as well as bumping serotonin and overall mood a bit) BUT the real answer honestly is interoception. After we worked on interoception/self awareness enough, my ds started changing his screen habits ON HIS OWN. He started saying things like "when I play xxxxx I get screen rage, so I'm giving it up." He has gone back to that game on rare occasions, but he actually can tell what it does to him. The meds helped get his norm to calm, so you pair that new stable/zen with the recognition that xyz is messing it up and they actually begin to choose better.

But you don't get there by harping or being rational or regulating. You can find a course on Outschool about screen addiction and you can find articles on it. You can try to be rational, but this situation is NOT RATIONAL. To be rational, the person needs stable chemistry and self awareness. So make those your goal and maybe eventually you'll get rational problem solving from him. It took a couple years of working that process of self awareness (interoception intervention) and the meds, but my ds is, in general, in a much better place. If he had his druthers he would play video games all day, but he can choose to break from them, can do his work, can leave the house and do other things, and that's how we got there.

Good luck. I'm sorry it's hard, sigh. 

[Pam in CT]

re What Comes First

5 minutes ago, maize said:

From one parent of neurodivergent sons who are larger than me to another, I see you.

I know the struggle.

My thoughts on things you might be able to do:

Absolutely get an IEP if one isn't already in place. Find out if there are parent advocates in your state. Join parent groups for your area or in general for kids with ASD; check for these on Facebook. Since his disability is impacting his ability to succeed in school, he should qualify for an IEP but you may have to fight for it--some schools make it hard when the kid is bright and intellectually capable. "No homework" is a reasonable IEP accommodation--one of my kids had that when they were in school.

Get a wifi router that you can control from an app, and make sure the password you use for that account is a strong password.

Focus on mental health, and on building a relationship. 

Does your son have any extracurriculars? Is he doing anything physical on a regular basis? Those kinds of things can be a huge boost to mental health. Martial arts and theatre are two things that have been good for my kids.

Regarding homeschooling, if you want to consider it again: mental health takes precedence over academics. It has to. We've had years at a time where the primary focus was just mental health. If a kid is depressed, they aren't going to learn much regardless of the school situation. Work on nutrition, physical activity, therapy, or just letting them get enough sleep and keeping stress as low as possible for a period; adolescence can be really, really hard on neurodivergent kids. Several of mine have done well with online, one-on-one tutoring; we've found inexpensive tutors through preply.com (advertises primarily as a language learning site but we've found tutors for every subject). That takes the strain of the parent-child relationship out of the learning equation while still giving the kid the benefit of the focused attention of a teacher.

 

Every.word.of.this.

 

(And amplifying, under the circumstances you're describing, an IEP -- perhaps under the identified category of Emotional Disturbance rather than ASD or other more academically-oriented categories) is definitely warranted and you CAN get it. But also amplifying, doing so may require that you fight for it.  I don't know what state you're in, but in mine and many others there are very active parent groups that can point you in the right direction to get the advocacy resources you need.)

[PeterPan]

33 minutes ago, pinball said:

This is an abdication of your moral and (probably legal) parental responsibilities.

Only a person who has never btdt would say something so stupid.

Reality is @Quarter Note is in a very hard place. There are a few of us on the boards here who have had kids SO HARD that we've been pressed to pretty hard places. People here have sent their kids away for medical placements. People here have had it nearly break up their homes. People here have had at least one parent wish the dc had never been born.

It's a NORMAL STAGE OF GRIEF to realize something is so hard and not like you thought that you despair. It's NORMAL to go through grief and venting and all these feelings, and it's OK to be honest about them. You don't stay there, but it's normal to start there and feel it. It's ok to SAY it and get it off your chest, because it's a reflection of just how hard it is.

I had times before my ds was on meds (and was at least as hard as op's dc, more dangerous honestly but in that vein) that I was like I don't have to be here, I don't have to do this. It's OK to be honest about our feelings. It's a later stage of grief where we're ready to problem solve and come to the other side (acceptance and action). 

So for @Quarter Note I can tell you I had that discussion about jail with my providers and I absolutely know what you mean. No this will not go away, and no it does not have to be this way. But keeping him away from stuff will not solve the problem. Solve the REAL PROBLEMS, kwim? The deepest issues are chemistry and a lack of self-awareness (interoception). You get those two and he will be able to learn, able to grow, able to problem solve. I suggest giving up on anything but stability and safety for the next two years. Maybe by 15 he will be sane. My ds is still not selfaware enough to completely drive his own self-advocacy, but he's in a better place. Probably now, at 15, I would say we're at a place where I have *more hope* that it doesn't have to end up in a bad way. I can see what we're doing WORKING and how with his growth PLUS lots of continued support we can have an ok, safe, stable outcome. 

But I hear you on the jail thing. We live it. There are people who ASK for their adult dc to be put in jail to keep them safe. People get pushed really hard. But our understanding of how to help is improving. Get access to these better tools (better meds, better interventions). You can come to the other side.

[Longtime Lurker]

16 hours ago, Katy said:

You might need to change the router to change the wifi password morning and night. 

Another option is changing his IEP so that he has no homework and cannot take the chromebook home. I’d probably do both. Our school district has chromebooks for every kid and I get emails about every site each kid visited in the past week AND every search term used, so it is possible for them to do a better job at tracking this. It sounds to me like the last thing he needs is internet, especially if he’s obsessed with weapons and violence. 

I work at a school and I know there are students that are required to turn in their chromebook at the end of the school day instead of taking it home. If they have homework, the teachers print things out for them to do at home instead of doing it on the chromebook.

46 minutes ago, Quarter Note said:

To everyone regarding the IEP:  I feel completely in the dark about what has really happened.  We had a big, huge meeting at the school - me, my husband, my son, and about eight school people.  We talked about accommodations.  Someone send me notes afterwards.  Did I sign off on an "IEP"?  I don't know.  They haven't been very clear about anything.

Regarding my husband and me being united on this:  absolutely.  Yes, my son is as aggressive to him as to me, though the size differential is less.  The problem is that my husband is, if anything, even more depressed about parenting than I am.  He doesn't have any fight left in him either.  Yes, we're on our third family therapist.  (We should have realized that the first two were a waste of time, money, and energy when they both said that they didn't know much about ASD.). We sadly just want to protect ourselves until our kids go to college or jail and leave us alone so we can be happy again.

To everyone:  please don't judge me for not being "strong enough".  I really thought that I was when I started this parenting journey.  I really thought that I would be great at the "loving but firm" parenting model.  (I read The Collapse of Parenting three times!). But for the last few years every confrontation involves a risk assessment:  Will this be the time that he sends me to the ER with a broken bone?  Do I really want to stare at yet another hole in the drywall?  Will he break another household item that will required either an expensive repair or replacement?  Please, friends, if you haven't had to live through a life like this, please don't tell me that I am too weak.

I have a son with ASD and aggressive behaviors. The difference is that he is very low-functioning and thus cannot make decisions like internet browsing, etc. on his own. Also, he is not aggressive to get his own way, but rather to express pain or inability to communicate. At one point, we thought that he would move elsewhere when he turned 18, but now he is 25 and still living at home. Appropriate supports make all the difference. My situation is very different from yours, but I understand what you are feeling. Others have good advice about calling the police if he is violent. Also, maybe he needs medication but it sounds like it may be difficult to get him to comply. It is sad that resources for struggling youth under 18 are so, so limited. Even after 18, it is hard.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Longtime Lurker
grammar

[PeterPan]

Just now, Pam in CT said:

identified category

I would fight ED and push for ASD as the disabling condition. Every provider is reading that IEP and ED => willful. ODD, same deal. Push against labels like that and fight for ASD. Do not let them imply your dc is merely "bad" and that if he would comply the problems would be solved. He has deep neurological differences and chemistry issues that have to be addressed. 

[pinball]

4 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Only a person who has never btdt would say something so stupid.

Good to know you support her in doing nothing, too

 

[PeterPan]

I'm not sure why people are telling you to call the police. In some areas the police have a de-escalation teams and training in autism. In general though, that's a good way to get your dc shot or tasered. I was told NOT to do that. There are police safety courses you can do specifically for autism. Unless you have talked with your police, know their training, and have him registered with them so they're sending that special team, I would NOT call. 

Get the real help you need. If he's on ADHD meds and aggressive, the meds are wrong. If he's depressed, the meds are wrong. I ran genetics to get my ds targeted medications that meet him exactly where he is with less trial and error.

Are you getting in home professional behavioral help? Have you been referred by your doc for behavioral help? We had a behaviorist in home for several years, and honestly there's a LOT you can do with de-escalation. Sometimes (you can laugh) I would back off and call someone else in. Sometimes we just have to be really patient and calm things down. We needed the meds. Those are awful days. I asked for the meds we are on now and psychs were just slow to do it. Don't even get me started on how pissy stupid and barbaric psychiatry is. 

It is ok to walk away. It is ok to be patient, back off, de-escalate, and give them time to cool down. The teen chemistry is not rational. It is ok to prioritize safety over accomplishment. There will come a time when you will get accomplishment again, but this is not it. 

How is your dc's vitamin D? Has anyone run bloodwork on him? My ds had some unexpectedly low, like clinically low, B vitamins I was not expecting. It's not only the meds that stabilize the mood but getting their body in a better place. Thyroid, iron, B vitamins, D, etc. all will play a part. 

[ScoutTN]

@PeterPan How does one “work” on interoception?  Esp with a challenging teen. 

[PeterPan]

Just now, ScoutTN said:

@PeterPan How does one “work” on interoception?  Esp with a challenging teen. 

https://www.kelly-mahler.com/what-is-interoception/

There is curriculum, there is online training you can do. Parents can do it or they can hire a professional (SLP, psych, OT, etc) to do it. 

I hear you on the challenging thing. There are some OTs now on the interocpetion fb group who are working with teens via tele. You need someone who has the right demeanor to get in their head. Kelly talks about the idea of *inviting* someone to participate in the activities. Remember, this oppositional stuff is super common. There are even studies and anecdotal evidence that *watching* other people work on their interoception and do the activities bumps the viewer's interoception. Remember, at it's core interoception is self awareness, turning attention to your body signals. So even a seemingly passive approach, if it's paired with some willingness or congeniality, can give surprising results.

Kelly also has a youtube feed with videos showing practitioners implementing interoception intervention in a variety of settings. 

[freesia]

3 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I'm not sure why people are telling you to call the police. In some areas the police have a de-escalation teams and training in autism. In general though, that's a good way to get your dc shot or tasered. I was told NOT to do that. There are police safety courses you can do specifically for autism. Unless you have talked with your police, know their training, and have him registered with them so they're sending that special team, I would NOT call. 

Get the real help you need. If he's on ADHD meds and aggressive, the meds are wrong. If he's depressed, the meds are wrong. I ran genetics to get my ds targeted medications that meet him exactly where he is with less trial and error.

Are you getting in home professional behavioral help? Have you been referred by your doc for behavioral help? We had a behaviorist in home for several years, and honestly there's a LOT you can do with de-escalation. Sometimes (you can laugh) I would back off and call someone else in. Sometimes we just have to be really patient and calm things down. We needed the meds. Those are awful days. I asked for the meds we are on now and psychs were just slow to do it. Don't even get me started on how pissy stupid and barbaric psychiatry is. 

It is ok to walk away. It is ok to be patient, back off, de-escalate, and give them time to cool down. The teen chemistry is not rational. It is ok to prioritize safety over accomplishment. There will come a time when you will get accomplishment again, but this is not it. 

How is your dc's vitamin D? Has anyone run bloodwork on him? My ds had some unexpectedly low, like clinically low, B vitamins I was not expecting. It's not only the meds that stabilize the mood but getting their body in a better place. Thyroid, iron, B vitamins, D, etc. all will play a part. 

Your plans are good ones. I am pretty sure people are recommending the police bc she is in actual danger from this child. While she’s getting the meds sorted, she needs to know she can do this. She does not have to be beat up bc she’s afraid of what the police will do to her child. She not getting hurt is as valid as her child not getting hurt. However her getting hurt is the actual thing happening; his getting hurt is theoretical. Telling her not to call only adds to her fear and guilt. 

[PeterPan]

45 minutes ago, maize said:

The stark reality is that no human, even a parent, has actual control over the behavior of another human. 

Bingo. I cannot control the outcomes my ds chooses for himself over the course of his lifetime. I *can* control what interventions I try to bring to him to get into his head. And the school system still is not doing enough of what is up to date and known that could be done. 

[PeterPan]

Just now, freesia said:

she is in actual danger from this child.

My ds has given me two concussions. I've been told by multiple sources not to call the police. De-escalate, walk away. Go into a room and lock the door. Btdt. Multiple times. When we get stressed and are in danger our problem solving goes down. That's why I'm saying, having btdt, that there *can* be answer that is very careful problem solving. You get yourself to safety. You take a deep breath and calm down. You stop and get back to rational and think of other ways to get this calmed down. Could you wait and do nothing? Could you drop demands? Could you call someone else to come? 

The risk of people with ASD being shot or tasered is significant. I'm not saying allow something unsafe to happen, but sometimes we can stop, get ourselves to a place of safety, and make a rational choice.

Has op done work learning about the Zones of Reg? If they work on Interoception and read about the Zones of Reg, they may get enough understanding to remove themselves and drop demands and de-escalate BEFORE these behaviors occur.

Think about it. What tool do the police (or anyone else for that matter) have that you do not?? When things are hard we want magic cures, experts, someone to solve it for us. We assume professionals and paid people know. We have to be very realistic about this. 

 

[Pam in CT]

re most helpful IDEA category

4 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I would fight ED and push for ASD as the disabling condition. Every provider is reading that IEP and ED => willful. ODD, same deal. Push against labels like that and fight for ASD. Do not let them imply your dc is merely "bad" and that if he would comply the problems would be solved. He has deep neurological differences and chemistry issues that have to be addressed. 

Yes, many parents do fight hard to "get" the IDEA label they see as most helpful.  And many disabilities are "co-morbid" with others; so a given individual may well exhibit difficulties / behavior outlined in the definitions in more than one IDEA label.

The way I think of IDEA is a portal enabling access to expensive resources. There are occasions when parents' reluctance to accept labels that sound scary precludes access to resources that would otherwise be available.  To my mind, access to funding, trained professionals, medical care, and where necessary specialized residential schools (which may well be what OP's kid needs, at least for some period of time) is more helpful than avoiding a label that sounds scary.

 

(I'm sure you know, but the OP may not): ASD is not among the formal categories identified under IDEA; "autism" is.  The definition under the law for "autism" is

Quote

(i) Autism means a developmental disability significantly affecting verbal and nonverbal communication and social interaction, generally evident before age three, that adversely affects a child’s educational performance. Other characteristics often associated with autism are engagement in repetitive activities and stereotyped movements, resistance to environmental change or change in daily routines, and unusual responses to sensory experiences.

 

(ii) Autism does not apply if a child’s educational performance is adversely affected primarily because the child has an emotional disturbance, as defined in paragraph (c)(4) of this section.

 

(iii) A child who manifests the characteristics of autism after age three could be identified as having autism if the criteria in paragraph (c)(1)(i) of this section are satisfied.

 

and the definition under the law for "emotional disturbance" is

Quote

(i) Emotional disturbance means a condition exhibiting one or more of the following characteristics over a long period of time and to a marked degree that adversely affects a child’s educational performance:

 

(A) An inability to learn that cannot be explained by intellectual, sensory, or health factors.

(B) An inability to build or maintain satisfactory interpersonal relationships with peers and teachers.

(C) Inappropriate types of behavior or feelings under normal circumstances.

(D) A general pervasive mood of unhappiness or depression.

(E) A tendency to develop physical symptoms or fears associated with personal or school problems.

 

(ii) Emotional disturbance includes schizophrenia. The term does not apply to children who are socially maladjusted, unless it is determined that they have an emotional disturbance under paragraph (c)(4)(i) of this section.

I obviously don't know the OP's kid, but given what has been described **in this thread**, along with the cri de coeur that suggests a residential placement may be called for... I would NOT advice the OP to resist the ED label because some folks might read "wilfull."

 

 

 

[Hilltopmom]

In my area, calling the ambulance/police would be the only way to get the child admitted to inpatient mental health treatment. That’s why I suggest it as an option after discussing it with your providers(make a safety plan).

[Lecka]

I can’t say what is true for everyone everywhere, but I think there are people who have a heart and a calling to work with kids with ASD of all kinds, and that is where their heart is.  I think there are also people who have a heart and a calling to work with kids who would be classified as ED.  
 

I think there are times people feel like “they can do this but not that” for various reasons.  But I don’t think that there is automatically more stigma for one diagnosis or another.  I really don’t think that is true.  
 

I think there are people who are fair and non-judgmental and honestly enjoy the challenges and joys of working with all kinds of kids.  
 

I think what category to be in should be based on where a child would be best served and the honest opinion of people making that determination.  
 

I think that in general, I don’t know what would be best in this situation. 
 

My son has been in the programs where people say “keep your kid out of that program.”  Guess what, it’s the right fit for some kids, and some kids it’s true shouldn’t be in a “one size fits all by diagnosis” situation.  But putting a stigma on kids in a program by saying “keep kids out of that program, it’s the stigmatized one” can be something that is not a good way to make a decision.