The saga continues......

[Laura S.]

33 minutes ago, DawnM said:

They are advising her and the attorney for the firm has stepped in.   However, I really dont' know who her "boss" is since they are essentially free agents?   Do you know?

We will meet with an attorney this week (our own) and then when our house actually sells completely, we will most likely call the state licensing board and turn her in.   Not to mention the review we will be leaving.   But again, we just want to get through the sale first.

We close on the next door property on Wed or Thur of this week.   That is what the buyers of our house are waiting for before they give us the rest of the DD.   

Then they have until the 29th to negotiate repairs and/or credits for repairs.   We should have a much better picture of everything by then in terms of the sale going through, how much we have to buy another house, etc....

 

I believe the broker is the person who is ultimately "in charge" of the agents, but my husband is out fishing so I can't check with him. If the attorney for the real estate firm has stepped in, you can bet the powers that be, whatever they are in her office, are involved now & you are beyond the clear it up with a talk with them stage.

I think your plan to meet with your own real estate attorney is a smart idea & they should be able to give you a good idea of your realistic options. My gut feeling is that your best hope of getting the Due diligence, or comparable, is probably through the real estate office's errors & omissions insurance (Maybe its the agent's insurance? We pay for it through fees to my husband's office & I'm not exactly sure if the insurance is his, personally, or the office's technically). They probably aren't going to offer that though, so you will need someone to essentially broker that by pointing out to them "hey, you screwed up in an actionable way. How do you want to settle it?". Assuming of course that your attorney thinks you have that remedy.  I would definitely ask your attorney if you are giving up any options by continuing to close the purchase of the adjacent property & your house sale through this firm before you do that if at all possible.

[Corraleno]

I've never paid (or even heard of) due diligence money, so I looked it up and it seems to be a North Carolina thing that's not mandatory but often expected by NC sellers. The websites I looked said the amount is typically $500-1500 because it's a nonrefundable fee paid to the seller for taking the house off the market while the buyer does inspections and negotiates repairs. Which I can kind of understand in a super hot market where unlisting the house for a month while the buyer does their due diligence could cost the seller a lot of other potential sales. But why on earth would a real estate agent recommend a nonrefundable payment of $8000 when this house had already been on the market for a year, and a month "off the market" was obviously not going to cost him any other sales?

[KungFuPanda]

Could you get it back in small claims court if you sued the seller directly?

[QueenCat]

10 hours ago, DawnM said:

They are advising her and the attorney for the firm has stepped in.   However, I really dont' know who her "boss" is since they are essentially free agents?   Do you know?

 

 

Most agents work for a broker. Unless they are also a broker. The broker needs to know what's going on. 

[DawnM]

7 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I've never paid (or even heard of) due diligence money, so I looked it up and it seems to be a North Carolina thing that's not mandatory but often expected by NC sellers. The websites I looked said the amount is typically $500-1500 because it's a nonrefundable fee paid to the seller for taking the house off the market while the buyer does inspections and negotiates repairs. Which I can kind of understand in a super hot market where unlisting the house for a month while the buyer does their due diligence could cost the seller a lot of other potential sales. But why on earth would a real estate agent recommend a nonrefundable payment of $8000 when this house had already been on the market for a year, and a month "off the market" was obviously not going to cost him any other sales?

That is not the typical fee.   The buyers of our house are giving us $10k in DD.   The normal amount is $5,000-$15,000 OR 1% of the purchase price of the house.   It all depends on several factors.

[DawnM]

7 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Could you get it back in small claims court if you sued the seller directly?

Not if he has already filed for bankruptcy.   I mean, I can, but I won't get it back that way.

We will ask our attorney what our options are.

[DawnM]

30 minutes ago, QueenCat said:

Most agents work for a broker. Unless they are also a broker. The broker needs to know what's going on. 

My husband told me tonight that they do know.   Now that their attorney is involved, they are aware.  

[Corraleno]

5 minutes ago, DawnM said:

That is not the typical fee.   The buyers of our house are giving us $10k in DD.   The normal amount is $5,000-$15,000 OR 1% of the purchase price of the house.   It all depends on several factors.

That would be the earnest money in most other states. It's just blowing my mind that buyers in NC willingly hand sellers up to $15,000 cash that is totally nonrefundable — no matter what the inspections turn up — unless the seller backs out. So you sign a contract to buy a house before you know the actual condition of the property, then you hand the seller thousands of dollars that he gets to keep even if the inspection turns up serious issues. So if the inspection shows major structural/foundation problems, or extensive water or termite damage, or whatever, and you decide not to proceed with the sale, you can get your earnest money back (assuming there was a contingency for that), but you lose the $15K DD. And in NC, sellers apparently have lower disclosure obligations than in many other states. I'm so curious how this ever became a "thing" in NC  — sounds like someone with a lot of dodgy properties to unload lobbied the state legislature pretty hard!

From ncrec.gov:

"The Commission has seen a major increase in complaints from buyers insisting they are owed a due diligence fee refund because a home inspection discovered an issue with the property which was not disclosed prior to going under contract. If a buyer is offering thousands of dollars in due diligence fees to secure a contract, they need to be fully aware that the fee is generally not refundable, even if the inspection reveals material defects in the property." 

[Heartstrings]

12 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

That would be the earnest money in most other states. It's just blowing my mind that buyers in NC willingly hand sellers up to $15,000 cash that is totally nonrefundable — no matter what the inspections turn up — unless the seller backs out. So you sign a contract to buy a house before you know the actual condition of the property, then you hand the seller thousands of dollars that he gets to keep even if the inspection turns up serious issues. So if the inspection shows major structural/foundation problems, or extensive water or termite damage, or whatever, and you decide not to proceed with the sale, you can get your earnest money back (assuming there was a contingency for that), but you lose the $15K DD. And in NC, sellers apparently have lower disclosure obligations than in many other states. I'm so curious how this ever became a "thing" in NC  — sounds like someone with a lot of dodgy properties to unload lobbied the state legislature pretty hard!

From ncrec.gov:

"The Commission has seen a major increase in complaints from buyers insisting they are owed a due diligence fee refund because a home inspection discovered an issue with the property which was not disclosed prior to going under contract. If a buyer is offering thousands of dollars in due diligence fees to secure a contract, they need to be fully aware that the fee is generally not refundable, even if the inspection reveals material defects in the property." 

I think it’s crazy too.  It’s so weird how things vary from state to state.  We’ve bought 3 houses in 2 states and only needed to pay earnest money of around $1000.  I’d still be renting if that was customary where I live. 

[Heartstrings]

Is the Due Diligence money at least credited back to you at closing or is it just a gift to the seller?  
 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Heartstrings

[DawnM]

5 hours ago, Corraleno said:

That would be the earnest money in most other states. It's just blowing my mind that buyers in NC willingly hand sellers up to $15,000 cash that is totally nonrefundable — no matter what the inspections turn up — unless the seller backs out. So you sign a contract to buy a house before you know the actual condition of the property, then you hand the seller thousands of dollars that he gets to keep even if the inspection turns up serious issues. So if the inspection shows major structural/foundation problems, or extensive water or termite damage, or whatever, and you decide not to proceed with the sale, you can get your earnest money back (assuming there was a contingency for that), but you lose the $15K DD. And in NC, sellers apparently have lower disclosure obligations than in many other states. I'm so curious how this ever became a "thing" in NC  — sounds like someone with a lot of dodgy properties to unload lobbied the state legislature pretty hard!

From ncrec.gov:

"The Commission has seen a major increase in complaints from buyers insisting they are owed a due diligence fee refund because a home inspection discovered an issue with the property which was not disclosed prior to going under contract. If a buyer is offering thousands of dollars in due diligence fees to secure a contract, they need to be fully aware that the fee is generally not refundable, even if the inspection reveals material defects in the property." 

I thought there was something in the clause about inspections and allowing you to back out, I would need to look at the contract from the realtor's office.

But there are other ways to get it back as well.   In this case, fraud.

But yeah, I hadn't heard of any of it until I moved here.

[DawnM]

4 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

Is the Due Diligence money at least credited back to you at closing or is it just a gift to the seller?  
 

All of it, the due diligence and earnest money, goes towards the house price at closing.

[scholastica]

I think I understand now why there was so much back and forth about your current house before the buyers made an offer. If I knew that I had to give you thousands of dollars that I can not get back if I discover something is seriously wrong with the property, I would do deep research before even making an offer. That’s a crazy system.

[Faith-manor]

Wow! Note to self, do not buy property in NC. Here, that would not fly. Earnest money is low, and the offer is always contingent on whatever the buyer and seller agree to, usually inspections, and the earnest money refunded if any significant defect if found that was not disclosed by the seller. I think the last time we purchased here in Michigan we put down $1500 earnest, and then waited on inspections. One place turned out to have massive problems that the seller did not disclose so we just pulled the offer and got our money back.

[Bambam]

14 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Wow! Note to self, do not buy property in NC. Here, that would not fly. Earnest money is low, and the offer is always contingent on whatever the buyer and seller agree to, usually inspections, and the earnest money refunded if any significant defect if found that was not disclosed by the seller. I think the last time we purchased here in Michigan we put down $1500 earnest, and then waited on inspections. One place turned out to have massive problems that the seller did not disclose so we just pulled the offer and got our money back.

I agree with this. Wow - I've marked NC off the list of possible retirement places. This due diligence stuff seems bizarre. 

[TravelingChris]

On 9/16/2023 at 4:13 AM, DawnM said:

Yes, he doesn't know what he is doing.    He really doesn't.

Yes, however, we saw the "contingency" part checked and she told us she had done things correctly so we didn't know if the addendum was between her and the seller or if there should be in the paperwork.   We know to ask next time, but we didn't think much of it since the paperwork said the word contingency on it several times and then the box was checked.   Of course we will never make that error again, but we just didn't know.

And she kept saying, "You need to trust me, I am the professional" which at first was reassuring and then got annoying and now infuriates me.

I don't trust anyone who tries to pull the professional line on me.  If you are a professional, you should be able to explain yourself.

[DawnM]

The attorney has sent a letter to the seller and his limited agent with a "you are not in compliance, so the earnest money goes back to the client."

However, the due diligence wasn't mentioned so we may have to fight for that ourselves with our own attorney.  

DH and I are kind of thinking we will lose it.   Thankfully, we did get a full price offer on the house and even with some concessions for repairs, we will come out $8k more than we thought we would, so it has washed out.

We will still fight for it, but I am not holding on to much hope that it will be recovered.

[DawnM]

Ok, update.  The reason the attorney didn't include the DD is because she said since it was already paid, we will have to get a litigation attorney.   She is only a real estate attorney.   

So we will meet with our attorney and see what he says about it.

I was privy to all of his liens and one of them looked like another attempted purchase of the home.   So, he scammed someone else, which is what we thought was going on.

They are focusing on the seller's errors and not the real estate agent's errors, so we will see what the attorney says about that.

[BeachGal]

37 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Ok, update.  The reason the attorney didn't include the DD is because she said since it was already paid, we will have to get a litigation attorney.   She is only a real estate attorney.   

So we will meet with our attorney and see what he says about it.

I was privy to all of his liens and one of them looked like another attempted purchase of the home.   So, he scammed someone else, which is what we thought was going on.

They are focusing on the seller's errors and not the real estate agent's errors, so we will see what the attorney says about that.

Wow, that takes some serious cajones. What a nightmare to deal with all of this.

[Pawz4me]

20 hours ago, Corraleno said:

That would be the earnest money in most other states. It's just blowing my mind that buyers in NC willingly hand sellers up to $15,000 cash that is totally nonrefundable — no matter what the inspections turn up — unless the seller backs out. So you sign a contract to buy a house before you know the actual condition of the property, then you hand the seller thousands of dollars that he gets to keep even if the inspection turns up serious issues. So if the inspection shows major structural/foundation problems, or extensive water or termite damage, or whatever, and you decide not to proceed with the sale, you can get your earnest money back (assuming there was a contingency for that), but you lose the $15K DD. And in NC, sellers apparently have lower disclosure obligations than in many other states. I'm so curious how this ever became a "thing" in NC  — sounds like someone with a lot of dodgy properties to unload lobbied the state legislature pretty hard!

From ncrec.gov:

"The Commission has seen a major increase in complaints from buyers insisting they are owed a due diligence fee refund because a home inspection discovered an issue with the property which was not disclosed prior to going under contract. If a buyer is offering thousands of dollars in due diligence fees to secure a contract, they need to be fully aware that the fee is generally not refundable, even if the inspection reveals material defects in the property." 

FWIW -- We've bought and sold four homes in NC and have never paid any due diligence money. A thousand or two in earnest money, yes. But no DD ever. But we bought this house 7.5 years ago, before the housing market here went bonkers. So I don't know if things have changed or not. I wouldn't doubt it, given how in demand homes are. Some of y'all might not want to move here, but hordes of people do, and that may be what's driving the crazy.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

Ok, update.  The reason the attorney didn't include the DD is because she said since it was already paid, we will have to get a litigation attorney.   She is only a real estate attorney.   

So we will meet with our attorney and see what he says about it.

I was privy to all of his liens and one of them looked like another attempted purchase of the home.   So, he scammed someone else, which is what we thought was going on.

They are focusing on the seller's errors and not the real estate agent's errors, so we will see what the attorney says about that.

So it's been on the market for a year, and basically he puts it on the market, gets this crazy DD money from someone who wants to buy it, then keeps that when the sale falls through due to liens, then does it again to someone else? What a racket

[Clarita]

33 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

So I don't know if things have changed or not. I wouldn't doubt it, given how in demand homes are. Some of y'all might not want to move here, but hordes of people do, and that may be what's driving the crazy.

I live in crazy real estate market California and I don't think I've ever heard of money I just gave to the seller. There were fees that went to bank/government which could be money lost if things fell through or we decided to back out. 

I feel like this is invitations for scams. I mean what is keeping someone from continuously putting their house up for sale, getting a few thousand dollars then backing out of the deal. 

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, Clarita said:

I live in crazy real estate market California and I don't think I've ever heard of money I just gave to the seller. There were fees that went to bank/government which could be money lost if things fell through or we decided to back out. 

I feel like this is invitations for scams. I mean what is keeping someone from continuously putting their house up for sale, getting a few thousand dollars then backing out of the deal. 

I don't know. Like I said, we've bought and sold four homes here w/o any DD money ever being mentioned. Just totally not an issue. I didn't even know it was a thing until this thread. I doubt we'd ever do it. I can't imagine being in a situation where I would give a seller money with no strings attached.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Pawz4me

[ktgrok]

Found this....seems like the amounts have gotten crazy just recently. https://www.ericandrewsrealtor.com/north-carolina-sellers-beware-of-too-much-due-diligence-money-in-real-estate-transactions/

[PeppermintPattie]

6 hours ago, DawnM said:

Ok, update.  The reason the attorney didn't include the DD is because she said since it was already paid, we will have to get a litigation attorney.   She is only a real estate attorney.   

So we will meet with our attorney and see what he says about it.

I was privy to all of his liens and one of them looked like another attempted purchase of the home.   So, he scammed someone else, which is what we thought was going on.

They are focusing on the seller's errors and not the real estate agent's errors, so we will see what the attorney says about that.

Couldn't you sue him through small claims court? Or is it too much money for that?

[DawnM]

3 hours ago, PeppermintPattie said:

Couldn't you sue him through small claims court? Or is it too much money for that?

Honestly, I don't know.

[DawnM]

8 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

FWIW -- We've bought and sold four homes in NC and have never paid any due diligence money. A thousand or two in earnest money, yes. But no DD ever. But we bought this house 7.5 years ago, before the housing market here went bonkers. So I don't know if things have changed or not. I wouldn't doubt it, given how in demand homes are. Some of y'all might not want to move here, but hordes of people do, and that may be what's driving the crazy.

We were surprised when we moved to NC that this was a thing but it was presented to us with our very first home purchase here and we were told it was necessary.   

The first two houses weren't an issue.   But this one is a nightmare.   I mean, ultimately, we aren't buying the house anyway, but ugh.

And yes, the market has gone nuts and with that comes higher DD, etc.....for a long time people from up North were buying houses sight unseen in order to have a house and move down here.   It was really crazy.

But now we are VERY gun shy and prob won't even offer anything on another house until this house is 100% sold and we have the cash in hand.   I hate being "homeless" for a month or more, but not sure what else to do based on my anxiety levels with all of this.

[YaelAldrich]

7 hours ago, DawnM said:

We were surprised when we moved to NC that this was a thing but it was presented to us with our very first home purchase here and we were told it was necessary.   

Maybe it's your specific area because I have multiple friends in the Triad and they never mentioned it. I'll find out personally when I will (eventually) sell my parent's home.

[DawnM]

OH DEAR LORD!   This craziness never ends with this house selling......wanna hear the latest?

So, we are buying the property next door.   The surveyors came out today and survey the area and mark off the lines.    Guess what?   The neighbor's driveway (circular driveway so only one portion of it) is on the land we are buying!   Ugh!

[Faith-manor]

4 minutes ago, DawnM said:

OH DEAR LORD!   This craziness never ends with this house selling......wanna hear the latest?

So, we are buying the property next door.   The surveyors came out today and survey the area and mark off the lines.    Guess what?   The neighbor's driveway (circular driveway so only one portion of it) is on the land we are buying!   Ugh!

Oh my freaking gosh!

[KungFuPanda]

Do you have to disclose that?

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, KungFuPanda said:

Do you have to disclose that?

Yup.

 

The surveyors told my husband that we have 3 options.

1. Ignore it and allow them to continue using their driveway, but know that in 25 years they could claim emanant domain.

2. Give them some sort of easement use in writing and allow them to use it.

3. Make them move their driveway over 20 feet. 

[KungFuPanda]

20 feet is significant! Didn’t they have to get permits to build it in the first place????

Im thinking that the dilemma of what to do will be the choice of the new owners. I wouldn’t make a decision on that if I could avoid it. 

[kbutton]

9 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Yup.

 

The surveyors told my husband that we have 3 options.

1. Ignore it and allow them to continue using their driveway, but know that in 25 years they could claim emanant domain.

2. Give them some sort of easement use in writing and allow them to use it.

3. Make them move their driveway over 20 feet. 

Is this little random chunk of property something the neighbors could buy instead of you buying it since their driveway is on it?

I think I’d try option 2, but if that failed, it seems like it’s time for someone else to suffer, lol! Any chance the neighbor’s builder would be liable for building the driveway in the wrong place?

This should not be your problem.

[DawnM]

6 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Is this little random chunk of property something the neighbors could buy instead of you buying it since their driveway is on it?

I think I’d try option 2, but if that failed, it seems like it’s time for someone else to suffer, lol! Any chance the neighbor’s builder would be liable for building the driveway in the wrong place?

This should not be your problem.

Honestly, it is too late to switch gears and talk to them and wait for them to decide, etc....and our buyers said they will back out if we can't get that property.   So, we are very stuck right now.

The neighbor's builder is the same builder for our house and he is dead, so prob not.

[DawnM]

15 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

20 feet is significant! Didn’t they have to get permits to build it in the first place????

Im thinking that the dilemma of what to do will be the choice of the new owners. I wouldn’t make a decision on that if I could avoid it. 

That is the approach we are hoping for, I don't want to deal with it.   

[kbutton]

Just now, DawnM said:

Honestly, it is too late to switch gears and talk to them and wait for them to decide, etc....and our buyers said they will back out if we can't get that property.   So, we are very stuck right now.

The neighbor's builder is the same builder for our house and he is dead, so prob not.

It seems like it should be at least partly the neighbor’s problem then. You’re already solving a pre-existing dumb problem by buying this plot of land for the buyers.

[Martha in GA]

If the buyers of your house simply don't want the easement to be available for other use, could you split the cost of the purchase of the easement with your neighbor who has the driveway on the property?

[kbutton]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

That is the approach we are hoping for, I don't want to deal with it.   

I didn’t really realize that could be an option to put it back in their plate. That would make the most sense, but I hope it doesn’t make them back out.

You’d think the county or whoever approves building permits would be on the hook too. 

[DawnM]

3 minutes ago, Martha in GA said:

If the buyers of your house simply don't want the easement to be available for other use, could you split the cost of the purchase of the easement with your neighbor who has the driveway on the property?

They want it to be theirs.   And we literally have one week before closing on the property, so not enough time to work something else out.  The lawyer has already drafted all the documents.

[DawnM]

6 minutes ago, kbutton said:

It seems like it should be at least partly the neighbor’s problem then. You’re already solving a pre-existing dumb problem by buying this plot of land for the buyers.

Well, originally it was meant to be a road to connect our section of the neighborhood to the other section.   It was just never developed because the guy who lives behind us never sold his 20 acres or however many acres he has back there.   There is even an airstrip on his property and he has 2 airplanes.   I don't think he flies anymore but his son flies in once a week from New York to visit.

[kbutton]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

Well, originally it was meant to be a road to connect our section of the neighborhood to the other section.   It was just never developed because the guy who lives behind us never sold his 20 acres or however many acres he has back there.   There is even an airstrip on his property and he has 2 airplanes.   I don't think he flies anymore but his son flies in once a week from New York to visit.

That makes a bit more sense, but someone should’ve caught the driveway issue, and if the driveway was a build now and ask permission later kind of thing (like literally everyone but us does about sheds in our neighborhood), then I would not feel bad about sticking it to the neighbor.

I’m so sorry. We’re walking testers of Murphy’s Law in our house, and I’m really indignant on your behalf.

[DawnM]

UGH, I didn't realize that in order for us to get our $10k back, the sellers of that foreclosure home have to sign.   They won't sign.   We are going to court I am sure of it.   We will be on the hook for $18k until we go to court.   This is insane.   What backwards/godless state did we move to?   Sorry, just feeling a little salty today.   

How can the laws protect the scammer and not the scammed?

Anyway, we are still meeting with our attorney in a couple of days and quite frankly, I am ready to sue everyone involved......the agency, the agent, the homeowners and the agent of the homeowners.   I am so angry.

[DawnM]

For those of you who were wondering about the funds.....it is stated this way in the contract that was signed by us and the sellers.  

 

(b) Breach by Seller: In the event of material breach of this Contract by Seller, Buyer may (i) elect to terminate this Contract as a
result of such breach, and shall be entitled to return of both the Earnest Money Deposit and the Due Diligence Fee, together with the
reasonable costs actually incurred by Buyer in connection with Buyer’s Due Diligence (“Due Diligence Costs”), or (ii) elect not to
terminate and instead treat this Contract as remaining in full force and effect and seek the remedy of specific performance.

(c) Attorneys’ Fees: If legal proceedings are brought by Buyer or Seller against the other to collect the Earnest Money Deposit, Due
Diligence Fee, or Due Diligence Costs, the parties agree that a party shall be entitled to recover reasonable attorneys’ fees to the
extent permitted under N.C. Gen. Stat. § 6-21.2. The parties acknowledge and agree that the terms of this Contract with respect to
entitlement to the Earnest Money Deposit, Due Diligence Fee, or Due Diligence Costs each constitute an "evidence of indebtedness"
pursuant to N.C. Gen. Stat. § 6-21.2.

NOTE: A party seeking recovery of attorneys’ fees under N.C. Gen. Stat. § 6-21.2 must first give written notice

[Annie G]

I mean, clearly there was a breach of contract since the seller cannot sell the house that’s being foreclosed on. Not to mention failing to disclose the liens. 
It’s ridiculous that you’re going to have to sue to get your money back. I expected more out of the agent (and her employer) who you hired to professionally guide you through this. 

[Faith-manor]

Dawn, can you also sue all these idiots for your attorney costs, plus interest while the money was tied up since it was a fraud, plus damages? Make this a $40,000 lawsuit or something? If you could, an attorney might take it without retainer in exchange for 30% but then even after that is deducted from $40,000, your take would be $28,000. This seems VERY reasonable to me given the level of fraud from the owners and their agent plus the incompetence of your agent.

[lmrich]

On 9/18/2023 at 9:27 PM, ktgrok said:

Found this....seems like the amounts have gotten crazy just recently. https://www.ericandrewsrealtor.com/north-carolina-sellers-beware-of-too-much-due-diligence-money-in-real-estate-transactions/

YES - we bought a house in 2019  - Due Diligence was $1000,  when  we bought a much  smaller and less expensive property  the dd was $10,000.  

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, lmrich said:

YES - we bought a house in 2019  - Due Diligence was $1000,  when  we bought a much  smaller and less expensive property  the dd was $10,000.  

Given how often things are found out that make a sale fall through after signing the contract, this is insanity. It basically is saying only people who are rich to a certain degree can buy a house - have to be able to lose ten thousand dollars without a problem. 

[ktgrok]

question - can he still sell with the liens? Like, In my head I thought he could, but the proceeds of the sale would first go to pay off the liens, then he gets whatever is left over. Or is it beyond liens and into foreclosure? 

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

Dawn, can you also sue all these idiots for your attorney costs, plus interest while the money was tied up since it was a fraud, plus damages? Make this a $40,000 lawsuit or something? If you could, an attorney might take it without retainer in exchange for 30% but then even after that is deducted from $40,000, your take would be $28,000. This seems VERY reasonable to me given the level of fraud from the owners and their agent plus the incompetence of your agent.

We are planning to ask our attorney Friday what our options are.   If suing everyone is an option, we might pursue it!