Jill Duggar Counting the Cost

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

Is anyone else reading this? I had pre ordered and it was released today.

I am only a few chapters in but Jill is really holding nothing back.  I hope this book is a #1 best seller and the world truly sees Jim Bob and IBLP for what they are.

[Katy]

Yes, and do far it’s SO good. She’s definitely been in therapy and doing hard work. And I totally agree, I hope everyone gets it now. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I read it (insomnia last night). I don’t want to spoil things, so I will state this vaguely: Michelle’s midnight car trip. Did JB know? 

[prairiewindmomma]

Also: the flying monkey lineup: who is on your list. Jessa, Jed, Jana….who do you think was sent to get Jill to fall in line? 

[Mothersweets]

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

Is anyone else reading this? I had pre ordered and it was released today.

I am only a few chapters in but Jill is really holding nothing back.  I hope this book is a #1 best seller and the world truly sees Jim Bob and IBLP for what they are.

I am so glad to hear this - go Jill! 

I have the book on hold at my library - think I'm 21st in line and hopefully it will go quicklly!

[Lostinabook]

Mine is arriving today. I was going to just get it from the library but then I saw the excerpts in People and felt like I needed to support her willingness to be transparent. 

[wisdomandtreasures]

Adding to my cart right now!

[MercyA]

I'm #332, waiting for 8 digital copies. 🙂 

I almost never buy new books but I am sorely tempted this time.

[Sharpie]

1 hour ago, Lostinabook said:

Mine is arriving today. I was going to just get it from the library but then I saw the excerpts in People and felt like I needed to support her willingness to be transparent. 

Me too.

[Mona]

Just bought this on Audible. Thank you! I have book credits I need to use.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I read it (insomnia last night). I don’t want to spoil things, so I will state this vaguely: Michelle’s midnight car trip. Did JB know? 

I would be happy to read spoilers. Can you just say SPOILER ALERT at the beginning of the post?
 

What car trip?

[itsheresomewhere]

Her calling her brother a P to her Dad shows how much her therapy has empowered her.  Her therapist and Derrick have done a wonderful job with supporting her and showing her how to help herself. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I read it (insomnia last night). I don’t want to spoil things, so I will state this vaguely: Michelle’s midnight car trip. Did JB know? 

I wondered this too.

I kind of feel like no. That and the part where she yells at Josh to stop smirking because he was the cause of the problem kind of shocked me.

[lauraw4321]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I would be happy to read spoilers. Can you just say SPOILER ALERT at the beginning of the post?
 

What car trip?

Agree. I won’t be able to read for a long long time and would enjoy a WTM summary / spoiler. 

[sweet2ndchance]

If someone wants to post a spoiler, tap the eyeball icon on the toolbar above the comment writing area.

Spoiler

Then just type your message in this box. Only people who click on the box will be able to see what you write in here.

Hope this helps.

I wouldn't mind spoilers either. I won't be able to read it for a long while either. 😉

 

[BusyMom5]

I would also like to read spoilers- my library says at least 6 month wait.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I should be packing and cleaning before flying out for vacation tomorrow morning but instead I read the entire book.

Tomorrow I can put up some spoilers if no one has beaten me to it but…everyone looks bad except Derick and Jill(she does say Jinger supported them, but the rest of the siblings seemed not to). A couple points for Michelle.  JB is worse than even I had imagined.  
I hope this books is a #1 bestseller and Jill can live forever in the comfort, safety and security she was always denied. 
 

(Not quite a spoiler since we all kind of knew it, but avoid if you want….

 

JB really pushed Derick on Jill. She wasn’t interested but he pushed it big time.

Obviously it turned out well for Jill, but I hope JB is ranting and raving about that decision now.)

Edited September 12, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[Tenaj]

I'm number 484 on the digital library wait-list.  Maybe they'll buy more copies.

[catz]

I usually avoiding supporting any Duggar financially like the plauge, but I may use an audible credit on this one.  Thanks for the reminder.

[prairiewindmomma]

I can post spoilers once Youngest has been educated for the day if someone else hasn’t beat me to it.

Also…I want to discuss the itemized “bill”, for those who have read it. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Youngest has decided to read ahead a bit in one of her assignments, so I will start the spoiler:

Spoiler

Prologue: the sled incident. Feb 2014.   She and Derick and a lot of the kids are outside playing in the snow. Derick is talking about his job as an accountant Walmart HQ, Jill is talking about her student midwife work (both young professional conversations, iykwim) and Michelle steps onto the front porch and yells, "No boys and girls on the same sled!".  Jill responds, "Yes, ma'am" and jumps away.  Derick is stunned by the reprimand.  Jill states, "I'm sorry, I could have known better." Derick is "bewildered". Jill frames this as this was her normal, but her time of bewilderment was coming.

Chapter One: Sweet Jelly Muffin. She paints an idyllic childhood, but one in which her family is called to a higher calling with more strict rules because they are Christians--no dancing, full length skirts/dresses (going to the beach fully clothed), etc. She acknowledges some of her friends' families had different rules and her parents taught their kids to say, "Others may, we may not."  She describes Michelle as a "homemaker and full-time mama who knew how to nurture her babies with patience."  This is one of the moments in which I think Jill really hasn't processed her upbringing fully. She seems to have been totally ok with the blanket training that we know happened in the house....the complete abdication of responsibility for childcare that her mother did (Jill had THREE buddies.....and was assigned a BABY to care for at age TEN!) ( I remember my own deconstruction process and it was a series of painful revelations and I think she is self-protecting herself still because she needs more healing before she can really deal with the personal relationships aspect fully.)  Jill spends a lot of time talking about how she became an approval seeker...trying to be a hard worker and the most obedient to receive praise from her family.  She also talks about the family's first trip to an ILBP conference in the mid to late 1990s, and seeing "Model Families" and realizing how far her family is from that.Honestly, the description of the Model Family as all being musicians makes me wonder if this is why we saw so many videos of them all playing instruments. JB was trying to chase being a Model Family.  This chapter also covers JB running for office (after flipping a coin three times) and losing--and how the brief press exposure brought TLC to their doors.  We also read about "Nike", the first mention of "defrauding", their leaving of Temple Baptist church after a Christmas program where there was dancing, and how her parents brought her in to their room to privately discuss that Josh "confessed about some stuff that he's done."  The chapter ends with her speaking with her parents.

 

[Lecka]

It might take having a 10yo herself to realize how inappropriate it was.  

[prairiewindmomma]

Spoiler

chapter 2: "When Josh went away, we didn't talk much.....Mom and Pop gave us the bare details about Josh, and so all I really know was that he'd been sent away to stay with some of their friends, that he would be working construction, and hopefully it would't be long before he would return to us."

I think this is the chapter of Jill's non-dealing with the SA that happened. There's a brief mention about how instruction to "not stir up contention" "became a tool for silence, for control, for guilt."  And I think this gets to the heart of it---she was silenced, she felt guilty because nearly everyone who is SA feels like it was their fault and she got NO effective therapy to process what had happened, nor was there any true accountability for Josh, no protection for the girls, etc.  The rest of the chapter talks about JB's political campaign in more detail, and JB's ambition--one of his phrases was "window of opportunity".  This is the money quote from the chapter, "In time, whenever I would hear anyone talk about how that first decision to bring the TV cameras into our home was a window of opportunity, all I would think about was secrets and lies."  Jill talks about early filming---one of the first trips to Aldi happened on the show budget, and so they were able to buy all kinds of special foods they normally didn't have access to--like" ice cream sandwiches, frozen pizza, and all beef chimichangas". By the time 14 Kids and Counting was done (one-time special) filming, Josh had returned to the fold.  Time passed--more specials--and some life improvements happened--building the 7000sq ft steel framed Warehouse, babies 15, 16, and 17, and the transition from specials to full time filming. The house is furnished by TLC.  Whereas the first five specials were filmed over 3 years, the new filming schedule was 3 days a week, 5 or more hours a day.  They could order in food on the TLC budget, and the older kids were given a debit card to run errands with as needed while the older kids were driving siblings to lessons, medical appointments, etc. (Remember the debit card!)  We see JB reveling in the attention he receives, including attention from IBLP leadership.  Jana is invited by Mr. Gothard to be a Gothard girl "everyone knew Mr. Gothard liked blond girls", and Jill attends Journey to the Heart. They are being transformed into a  model family.  One day, while they are socializing with other families from church, a father with 13 children (anyone know who this is?) is upset the kids are all out playing with water balloons outside. Jill knows that the root of his anger is from "The Letter."

When Josh was courting Kayleigh Holt (I think that's how you spell it, she is not named in the book), Josh confessed his prior sexual sins to her--generally--and Kayleigh wrote a letter to him in anger. Rather than send the letter, she tucked it into a book and forgot about it. In 2006, that book was lent to a friend at church, and the letter resurfaced.  It was read by someone else at their church and she phoned the DHS hotline. The story broke as they were about to record with Oprah, and about to attend the IBLP Headquarters Christmas party afterwards.  Jill writes about this vaguely--but the girls were interviewed, attended a closed court session, and DHS workers would come at the house at random times to verify locks on the doors, and people "Sleeping where they were supposed to be sleeping."

(Ok, I'm going to put on my personal hat here and say I want to talk about this child protection plan later. !!!!!!)

Jill's focus is on her feelings---that anything she says might result in her being the one that tears the family apart. 

The fallout from this event---JB no longer allows church to be hosted at his home, the church splits, and again Jill just wants things to move on.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

6 minutes ago, Lecka said:

It might take having a 10yo herself to realize how inappropriate it was.  

This has been true for me in my own life, in many regards.  My heart really aches for her.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

My mom used to say “Others may, we may not,” frequently.  Even though my parents sat through the basic seminar and then decided Gothard was nutso, I think my mom still idolized some of the Gothardite moms we knew as well as others more national figures in those circles and absorbed a lot of it.

The letter thing makes more sense now that I know it was written TO Josh and just never sent.

[mommyoffive]

The Biggest Bombshells from Jill Duggar's New Memoir 'Counting the Cost' (people.com)

[prairiewindmomma]

Spoiler

Chapter 3: Clipped Wings and Hills to Die On

Opens with Jill doing a book tour

Filming is now taking place 10-11 months of the year, and it is wearing Jill down.  She likes some of the perks--especially the travel--but the push for new content can't all come just from travel.  Jill is feeling stressed. "Either I was trying to bury my discomfort and anxiety when they sprung a surprise on us, or fake my joy when we were filming something we'd already rehearsed. I had to keep my reality far away from the TV."

She writes about some of the negative attention they had started to receive as well--she felt "encouraged" by the negative reactions, feeling like it was an inevitable hardship that comes from ministry work.  JB begins counseling other families who sought his attention, and JB begins his real estate empire.  Josh is given some land to rent to start up a used car sales lot. IBLP is discussed more--especially how fear based all of the teachings were, and how children were expected to honor their parents even into adulthood and after marriage.

One of the main anecdotes centers around one man who questioned JB. JB is crowing about all of the people he is able to reach and minister too and someone said, "That's very interesting, Mr. Duggar, but you know, Jesus talked to people one on one too.....and if God had told me to go and talk to the person under the bleachers instead of the thousands in the stadium, then I'd have to obey." JB replies, "No way. God would never tell you to do that." This story is shared because it was one of the first times Jill is left confused and sad---she realizes that maybe her dad is not infallible.

Jill talks about how she would need the approval of her parents to even meet a guy, and that she was content with not courting. Her life was full with filming, being a nurse midwife, and tending to her three buddies---their personal care, schooling, etc.

We see JB pushing Derick onto Jill....inviting her in to listen on phone calls he had with Derick, pushing his blog onto her to read, and suggesting that they should go visit Derick in Nepal. She declines the first opportunity, because the trip to Japan and China didn't leave enough time to go to Nepal given her midwifery study schedule.  In March 2013, JB pushes Jill into a video call, "Why don't you go ahead and tell her a bit about yourself and your testimony."  Jill talks about how invasive the filming crew is---her wisdom tooth removal, Michelle's births, and so on. There's a push for new drama to push ratings, always, and there is pressure to film everything, but everything is so orchestrated because it has to be scheduled with the crew, etc.  JB pushes Jill to invite TLC to go to Nepal with her to go meet Derick. The crew could only go for five days, but Jill pushes to stay for two weeks in November 2013. She replied, "You go for five days if you want, but if I'm going to decide whether this guy is someone I want to spend the rest of my life with, I need two weeks. I'll do whatever you want. We can film a pretend goodbye scene and I'll turn on the tears for you, but I'm not doing this in five days. I just can't."  This is one of the first times we see Jill advocating for herself.

She states she fell deeply in love with Derick (in the two weeks before she left Nepal).Derick came back to the US in January 2014, in March he proposes, and on Easter, Derick learns his mom has cancer.  It's just before the wedding, and Jana takes over a lot of the last minute details so Jill can support Derick as his mother is very very ill.  Just before the wedding, JB has some papers for Jill to sign on the countertop.  There are just a couple of pages that need her signature, and, trusting her dad, she signs.

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by prairiewindmomma

[prairiewindmomma]

17 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

The Biggest Bombshells from Jill Duggar's New Memoir 'Counting the Cost' (people.com)

This nails it, IMO.

[mommyoffive]

I feel so bad for these kids that were/are being exploited on the internet or tv by their parents.  Between what the Duggar kids went through and what Ruby Franke's kids went through, things need to changed for family vloggers and reality tv kids. They need to be protected because their parents are not doing it.

[prairiewindmomma]

Ok, I can knock out chapter 4 while Youngest reads her science, and then I will have to duck back in later....

Spoiler

Chapter 4: Costs

Jill gets married, and refuses to allow them to film the honeymoon, given the humiliating experience Josh and Anna had had.  They return home to broke newlywed life.  JB has set up a shop at the Warehouse to serve as a studio. Derick is working 45 hours a week at Walmart on a team that handles the company's tax audits, and Jill is newly pregnant (on their one month anniversary). They are trying to fit in 20 hours a week of filming in the evenings.  Michelle had already given birth six times on tv, Anna thrice, and Jill has been told she has to announce her pregnancy on camera. Jill bends the rules, telling a couple of her sisters and buddies first, and then is filmed telling her parents.  TLC tries to spin the release of the news so as not to detract from Blessa's wedding and People magazine (coordinated through TLC) breaks the story.  Derick hits a breaking point, "I don't like being a dancing monkey who has to perform at these stupid photo shoots. And I don't like having to bend to the demands of when and how we're going to post our own family announcements!.... So, we're basically slaves of TLC and your dad. Is that how it is?"

Yes, Derick, that's how it is.

Family mission trip to El Salvador December 2014, in her third trimester of pregnancy. Mike, the director of the missions, invites Jill and Derick to serve there.

Scott wants to film Jill's childbirth, Jill doesn't want to, and Scott freaking "tears up" during his efforts to pressure Jill. The compromise: Michelle and Jana will film.  After 68 hours of labor, in which baby somehow flips breech transverse after they've gone to the hospital (40 hours in), Israel is born by C-section.  Another People magazine release.

New baby life. Filming. Prepping to leave for El Salvador. May 2015, JB announces that In Touch magazine got the police report from the initial investigation and is going to release it. Jill is retraumatized, and tells Derick she wishes she was "dead".  She felt like she was being paraded naked through the streets, her sexual abuse experience offered up as entertainment.

---and folks, at this point, I'm questioning whether I should have bought the book. I want to support Jill's opportunity to cash in and own her own narrative, and also, I really have been reexamining my ethical stance on reality tv consumption and its fruits for the last few years--

JB's family escapes to the ranch of a friend, and Josh and Anna join them. Josh is the smarmy @$$ he always is and Michelle calls him on it, "Josh, it's not your fault this was released, but you need to know that you were behind all this. Don't be so arrogant."  JB, "We need to help TLC understand that this happened in the past, that this was something we have already dealt with." Chad (the agent) offers an exclusive interview with Fox news, on the Megyn Kelly show. Jill, "the world wasn't able to see that my parents were good people just trying to do good things". 

Woof. Girlfriend is being retraumatized, humiliated, shamed, and victimized again and she and Blessa go to be interviewed....with Josh watching the interview offstage from a couch. WTAF.

 

 

[itsheresomewhere]

So far, is anyone thinking that theory that Derrick went on the Twitter war with the crap was really him trying to get them kicked off the show was correct? 
 

No matter what I hope this book helps someone out there who is in a similar position and gets them the inspiration they need to get out/help.  

[Resilient]

FYI: if you are making a buying vs digital library decision, you should know that increasingly, authors make as much or money on library use as the do on paper-based sales.  

[prairiewindmomma]

Chapter five summary: "Tearing Apart"

Spoiler

Derick and Jill decide to go to El Salvador as self-supporting missionaries. Journalists find them right away, with the British tabloid The Sun posting their details, potentially making them targets for kidnappings (and IMO, this is a legitimate worry). Jill cares for Israel and runs groups for local women and girls. Derick is happy, the filming schedule is manageable, and then the Ashley Madison/Josh scandal breaks.  Jill texted Josh directly. Josh does not reply. Michelle called, "It's devastating for Anna and the kids."  Unfortunately, the timing of the filming schedule means that Jill and Derick are returning in the aftermath of the scandal, and everyone is stressed.  Jill notes JB worked hard to keep the paparazzi from finding where Josh had been sent for rehab, and contrasts that with the lack of protection she had been offered.

Counting On is pitched while they are in town, and Derick and Jill are reluctant to sign on. Derick and Jill don't give a commitment (or an outright declination), and return to El Salvador. Chad, Jim Bob's assistant, is supposed to be helping the Dillards fundraise for their own support for the mission (a 501c3), but money is slow to come in. Violence picks up in the mission. Family comes to town to film, and JB buys Jill a washing machine and a rice cooker while they are in town. (This is relevant later.)  Money remains tight, and Derick wants to how much income is coming in from the show, Derick asks, and JB states, "I was the one who was able to negotiate a good deal for our family. I could retire right now. The only reason I'm still doing this is for you kids." Total dodge. Derick asks for a percentage of the income. JB's response, "We used to pay Josh, but decided not to do that after a while because it wasn't a very good idea. Michelle is the one that has had all these kids. We wouldn't even have this show if it weren't for her." Derick: "Yes, that's true, but we've also added a lot of value to the show and done a lot to contribute. After all, the show is called Jill and Jesse: Counting On."

----Indeed, Derick, it is.----

JB and Derick continue their word chess for a bit, and JB offers Derick $10-12/hour. Derick notes that "you can't appraise the value of a worker to a business until you know what the whole business is worth". Thank you, educated accountant Derick.  JB, ....God brought this opportunity to us, and we really feel like he has blessed it and helped us reach so many people, many who would otherwise never foot in a church....."

----Does it really, JB??? Are there really people who go to church from watching you eat Tater Tot casserole and spray your hair to look like a Lego head?"---

Jill goes into an anxiety spiral because she's not used to any confrontation with JB at all.  You see the conditioning kicking in on her thought process. The rest of the visit goes ok, and she falls back into her mission routine. More people loosely connected to the mission die. The first season of the show drops, and negotiations for season 2 pick up.  

Despite this being a "new" show-the structure is the same. Scott is the producer. JB is the only one being paid and is in control of the contract. Chad is JB's assistant, and in charge of wrangling things together for filming. 

During their October visit, Jill and Derick stated that they were going to stay in El Salvador until July 2016. Chad demands that they go to Houston for filming. He starts by trying to bribe them (the show will shop and pack things for you). Jill says she's going to talk to her parents. They offer to green screen film via email to Chad. Chad doesn't agree. Derick calls Chad and Chad drops a bomb, "Jill has a contractual obligation. She has to return." Chad references the contract in a subsequent email: fixed five year contract, appearances, all promo activities, etc. Jill and Derick ask for a copy of the contract, JB and Chad refuse.  JB and Chad keep pressuring them to show up.  

JB lines from these events:

"Is this you or is this Derick who is being the problem?"

"This isn't like you, Sweet Jilly Muffin."...."Are you having financial problems? Are you depressed?" (note the shame and guilt here!)

"Just think about it, if you don[t come to this shoot and TLC cancels the show again, everyone is going to look at you and know it is your fault and that you could have stopped it. Are you gonna be okay carrying that burden?" (shame guilt)

then a threat... "You are failing your family and leading them down a path of destruction. Are you prepared for that? Do you know what happens if you break a legally binding contract?"

Boom. He admits there is a contract.

 "You know, maybe you should flip a coin?" (this is his attempt to distract, imo)

then threat again, "Let me tell you something now! You're gonna get sued! You're gonna need whatever money you have, because you are going to be sued"

Jill anxiety spirals again. 

JB and Michelle show up on their doorstep in El Salvador on the day they were supposed to be in Houston filming, cameras in hand.

 

 

[Katy]

Thanks for posting the spoilers @prairiewindmomma. I got the audible but I like Jill’s voice so I slowed it down to normal speed. And between one sick kid that’s unusually needy and one that was having problems with a teacher not following their IEP I’ve been unable to get past chapter 4.

I am slightly critical of her approach to telling the tiny amount she shared about Josh’s abuse. She used the story of her dad informing her, which is what she said on the tv interview. But people who leaked the story who went to church with them said that not only did Jill punch Josh, she’s the one who told their parents. And Josh accused her of her being a tattletale on him on camera at her wedding. It made the show. I wish she’d either addressed the disparity or indicated she didn’t want to talk about her abuse. As it is she seems like she’s lying about it. And while I don’t feel I’m entitled to private and complicated feelings, if she is going to discuss it I wish she cleared that up. 
 

Otherwise she seems remarkably candid so far. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Chapter six summary "No Agreement"....note the time jump from December 2015 (JB and Michelle on their doorstep in El Salvador) to August 2016 (flying home to Arkansas from El Salvador at the end of their mission, in anticipation of Derick's sister's wedding and Jinger's wedding)

Spoiler

The Dillards fly back. Lots of filming in anticipation of Jinger's wedding. Israel is one. A few months earlier Chad gave a partial copy of the contract to the Dillards, showing Jill's obligations: announce pregnancy, filming, etc.  Jill discover's the date of her signature on the contract---the day before her wedding. The papers on the countertop of the Warehouse must have been the contract.

They briefly settle back in the Warehouse life, and then Jill discovers she's pregnant. They choose not to return to El Salvador due to the Zika virus.  She's still obligated to do a promo shoot in December, so Mike agrees that they can put their mission on hiatus for a few months.

October 2016: Josh has a new car lot business. Everyone is offered $80k (first time they have ever been offered pay in their whole dang lives) and JB states, "You guys can thank Derick for this. He's been talking to me about paying some of you guys." "All I'm going to need is for y'all to sign something. I'm having the paperwork drawn up now. Once you've signed, I'll get you the money." "If you have any issues, don't go stirring contention among the brethren; you come to me."

----There we go, folks. JB is still a manipulative jerk.----

Paperwork comes through. 4 pages. Contract is with their mom and dad directly under their DBA "Mad Family Inc." In exchange for 80k, a firm seven years plus an unlimited number of years beyond that if the company chose, an obligation to make themselves and all their children, including future children, available to any show Mad Family created or participated in.  They would be paid for future work at a rate they had to accept without negotiation. They had to sign a lifetime NDA.

---I want to talk about these terms.---

A few siblings ask if the Dillards are going to sign (Who, I wonder?!! I have my .02 on James.)

During a family visit to Branson, they try to clear the air.  The Dillards refuse to sign. JB appears on her doorstep at the end of December, check in hand, "I know y'all have been thinking over the contract and talking with Chad about revisions, and we had hoped to get all that wrapped up before the end of the year, but we can continue those conversations. Mom and I talked about this (---Oooh, I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for those---) and we really want to go ahead and give y'all your payment now. We really love you guys." 

Jill does not feel the love bombing deep in her soul.

The Dillards return to El Salvador in February. The Dillards begin looking for new mission opportunities. Jill and Jessa file against In Touch and all over the privacy breach.  The new mission opportunity won't let them sign unless she is contractually free from filming. The Dillards file a resignation letter with everyone, giving a date of May 31, 2017. Chad and TLC flip out. TLC won't give them a full copy of the contract. Chad logjams--won't let the Dillards talk to TLC directly. More people die in El Salvador.  They return to the US May 2017, dead broke and 33 weeks pregnant. Chad resigns from Dillard Family Ministries, and sweeps funds out of the bank account, leaving only a few hundred dollars.  They film exit interviews, which are never aired.

 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

Chapter 7 summary: Dying. Inside and Out.  I've got to skim lightly on this chapter because I have IRL delivery trauma of the being in pools of blood myself variety, so if someone wants to detail the implications of that more, go for it

Spoiler

She goes into labor at Cold Stone Creamery, while out with her parents and friends. She goes to the hospital. 36 hours into labor, half an hour into pushing with an epidural, baby stops descending. Baby's heart rate decels, and she has a crash c-section due to a uterine rupture the size of a fist. (Y'all, she and baby would have likely died if she hadn't already been hospitalized WITH an attending doctor present.) She lost half her blood volume, but they saved the uterus. She doesn't meet the baby for four days. Samuel (the baby) has a brain bleed, and they won't know for years if there is any significant impact from the bleed. JB shows up unannounced in the NICU (how! NW Arkansas, use your hospital security!) Derick sees a text come through on JB's phone--Chad wants a pic of the baby to leak to TLC. Derick sees the text and texts Chad directly, refusing. Chad denies he made the request. They go home after 9 days in the NICU.

Joseph has a batchelor party at Beaver Lake shortly thereafter, and Jill takes Samuel to say hi to her siblings before leaving them withDerick's mom's on supplemental oxygen. The film crew is at the lake, and Jill holds back the details of the birth and Samuel's prognosis. They were surprised to see the baby on oxygen.  Samuel is given the all clear at his three month old MRI in terms of visible lasting damage, but continues to be followed to evaluate for developmental delays.  They move from Grandma Duggar's house to a small duplex and meet real people.  Jill goes into a guilt/fear spiral as she copes with the trauma from childbearing. JB is a jackass and states, "We don't know for sure now, do we?" when Jill discloses concerns about future childbearing. (Usually once you rupture, they strongly advise against future pregnancies, especially when you've already had a couple of c-sections. It's not straightforward by any means, but perinatology is less than enthused about it.)

In addition to her fear spiral about fertility, Jill is feeling out of the loop with the Warehouse circus crowd as she lives 30 miles away.  She doesn't know how to connect with people IRL, as she has a lot of fear and trust issues.  She wrestles with perfectionism.  She contemplates wearing pants. Derick, despite knowing she has never worn them and comes from a family that preaches against them, seems somewhat unfussed about her contemplating wearing them.  

----I don't know whether this is some dancing around the truth to smooth things for the book or whether Derick is completely oblivious....but I have to say in my household, when I began showing my shoulders and knees in 2020, it was a big freaking deal and my dh understood my trauma around clothing choices. This glossing over of the issue makes me wonder all of what Jill is hiding or feeling emotionally, iykwim.---

Apparently Jinger can wear pants because she and her husband went to JB and Michelle directly with scriptures, but Jilly Muffin can't wear leggings and long t-shirts to a theme park on a wet day because that is sinful according to JB even though JB saw her that very day and didn't recognize she wasn't in a skirt.  Jinger offers quiet support behind the scenes.  The Dillards try alcohol. Jill doesn't like it. (My husband didn't like it either when he tried it, age 49, for the first time either.)

Jill also gets a nose piercing. ---I relate to this deeply.  One of the very first things I did after leaving my church was go and get my ears pierced a second time. Bodily autonomy. I support it.---  Jilly Muffin is banned from the Warehouse unless JB is there for being the sexual temptress she is. 🤮

 

 

[Grace Hopper]

I just put it on hold at the library, I am #137 in line. 
 

I am aware of the Duggars and have a basic knowledge of their public lives. Will I be able to follow along? Must one be well versed in Duggar Lore to follow what she writes about in this book?

[prairiewindmomma]

Just now, Grace Hopper said:

I just put it on hold at the library, I am #137 in line. 
 

I am aware of the Duggars and have a basic knowledge of their public lives. Will I be able to follow along? Must one be well versed in Duggar Lore to follow what she writes about in this book?

You can totally follow the book with a basic knowledge. I suspect some things will hit differently. If you have any issues with sexual abuse, narcissism, patriarchy, or the like, parts of this may hit nerves.  One of the reasons I'm willing to post summaries on this book is because I know other boardies feel this close to home, and I can put enough emotional distance in that they don't have to re-feel this deeply, iykwim.  This is my nod of respect and acknowledgment of pain to them. ❤️

[Ginevra]

Ohh! I didn’t know it was out today…off to order…

[prairiewindmomma]

Chapter 8 summary: Pushed Aside.   Ah, yes, the Narcissistic dynamic: Flying Monkeys and Discard.

Spoiler

2018. Chad said that the contract ran for five years, which dated from their wedding in June 2014 would mean they are obligated to film through June 2019. No mission wants to take them on. No Panama. Jill discloses they are jobless to Michelle, who tells JB. JB plays the need-to-know-info-manipulation game again, "You should have told me. I'm sure we could have worked something out." Oh, and BTW, the contract expires June 2018. 

Derick takes the LSAT, applies to law school. In Touch filed a motion to dismiss arguing that the Dillards were public figures with fewer privacy rights. Derick shoots his mouth off publically, and is reprimanded by JB (deservedly, I think, as Derick is also a homophobic and transphobic @$$) and Derick and Jill shoot off a 27 page rant to JB. JB does not fly off the handle. (Why, do you ask? I want to discuss this also.)

Jill receives a tax bill from the IRS. Apparently JB's accountant has been reporting that Jilly has been declaring that she has been paid income from the show....not just the $80k one time, but about $137,000 more on top of that. Oh, and they want their tax money.

JB's helpful advice, when confronted about this, "It's important not to live off your life savings but to reinvest it." They should flip houses. Oh, and they are ungrateful. If they raise any fuss and want to actually receive the money that had been declared, JB would have to evict some families he'd been giving free rent to. (Duggar fans--this is the Caldwells, right?)  JB wants a number of what Derick thinks the Dillards are owed.

----Holy Tax Fraud----. Y'all, there are a lot of people you can manipulate and lie to, but the tax man is not one of them.

Jilly wants to meet with her parents with a mediator present. Jilly has a wishlist from this session (good on the articulated goals). 1. A declaration that she is not sinful for wearing pants or a nose ring. 2. Acknowledgment of the deception around the contract. 3. Release of the full 2014 contract. 4. To make the income declared on the taxes be the correct number--a payment of $130, 249.98.  This mediation session does not go well (this shouldn't be a surprise, Jilly) and JB uses this session basically to chew out Jill for sending the letter. Cue the narcissistic rage. I'm not going to detail this, because it's painful, but Jill drops a truth bomb here, "You treat me like I'm a prodigal who's turned her back on you. You treat me worth than you treat my pedophile brother."  The mediator calls for a break, the session goes nowhere, and at the end of it all, the mediator suggests therapy for Jill and Derick.

Jill starts therapy with Ray. Months pass. Jill asks for funds from JB to fund Derick's law school, as the declared income on their taxes knocks them out of financial aid eligibility.  JB sends back an email itemizing funds that have been expended on Jill, conveniently totalling $129,940 and adding that JB had also helped them get AC, a stove, and a washing machine in El Salvador. He offers them $20k, offer valid only through Monday. "Love, Daddy Duggar".

They respond by hiring an attorney to make a formal demand for the 2014 contract and copies of the Mad Family Inc bylaws, minutes and other details that she, as a shareholder, should have access to.  JB responds as we expect a narcissist would respond: daily texts, voicemails, and calls. When that doesn't work, he sends her siblings as Flying Monkeys to call, voicemail, and text for him. When that doesn't work, the Monkeys show up on her doorstep both day and night, spending hours pushing the issue.

Why are they willing to fly? In 2017, JB had started trickling money to them, per episode. One sibling (and my money is on James, again) said, "Pops is telling everyone that if we don't stand against you both on this, then we're standing against him. He said none of us can be neutral here, and this affects all of us. He says we might all be sued as a result of what you're doing."

Cue Jill's anxiety spiral.

One sibling shows up with a 24hour offer from JB. 20k in trade for a NDA.

Time passes.

12:15 am, someone is pounding on the storm door, and Jill sees it's her mom, walking back to her car. 15 minutes later, a text comes through. "Jill & Derick, we love you all. I took the discovery contract in its entirety to your house late last night. I apologize for going by so late. I left it in between your screen door and the front door. Heart emoticons. Mom."

They read the contract. 

30 min episode: $50k

1 hr episode: $65k

If they hit year 4, $58k/$73k respectively.

They cranked the numbers, and it appears JB was reporting roughly 3% of earnings in phantom payments to each kid to the IRS.  TLC had paid $8,000,000 total to JB. $100,000 for the Dillard wedding, and a similar amount for Israel's birth episodes. (But JB wouldn't pay their medical expenses for that same birth of around $10k+.)

The Dillards start an email to their attorney, and a sibling (who?) called relaying an offer from JB: $130k, NDA, no attorney.

January 2019: they get some Mad family documents, no NDA, $175,000.  It didn't feel like a victory.

----It never does, Jill.  You always lose when dealing with a narcissist.----

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by prairiewindmomma

[Katy]

Wow. I hope that jerk goes to jail for tax fraud 

[Pam in CT]

(deleted bc do not want to spoil}

Edited September 13, 2023 by Pam in CT

[prairiewindmomma]

Chapter 9 Summary: Real. Not Fake. 

Spoiler

This is mostly about her baby steps away from IBLP.  They send their kids to public school. She has an alcoholic drink. (JB sees Derick drinking a beer on social media and offers to send her "alcoholic" husband to the same "rehab" they had send Josh.) They are re-banned from the Warehouse in April 2019. She keeps going to therapy.  She learns about emotional connection in a healthy way.  She talks about how leaving IBLP =/= leaving Christianity.  

---This part of the conversation felt real to me.  IME of leaving the church, I see a lot of church remainers accusing the leavers of being sinners, or lowering their standards, or lacking faith.  IME, it was my integrity that caused me to leave.---

Grandma Duggar dies. Jill goes to the Warehouse to offer condolences to her dad.  After the funeral, JB invites them to the Warehouse. She declines. Months pass. Jilly continues therapy.  While they are at church in November, the Homeland Security raid of the car lot drops.

----It really is always something with Josh, isn't it!!---

A sibling relates the family meeting: "might be a setup" "pray for this to end real quick" "no statements to anybody"  Jill wonders if it was an immigration issue.

October 2020: the Dillards make a social media video about some of the issues with the Duggar family.  They do a People magazine interview about it. No response from JB and all.

March 5, 2021: Homeland Security shows up at their door to interview Jill. Jill refuses to talk about her previous abuse incident due to pending litigation and because she doesn't want to. The Sun shows up on their doorstep a few days later, announcing Josh is about to be arrested. He is.  Cue the trauma spin.  She's deposed for seven hours, and comes home and dry heaves.

September: she's pregnant again, and then has a miscarriage in October. Cue the fertility anxiety spiral.

October/November: Jill hears that JB was an ass in court. She went to a day of Josh's trial, and stays home the next. She's relieved when he is found guilty.  "I was finally able to see my eldest brother for what he was---a man unable to control himself, totally detached from the reality of how deeply he was hurting others."  Friends rally around her.  They make a post verdict statement to social media, and after posting that, Derick asks her what she wants people to know. "That we have been lied to so much. But that finally, today, we got the truth."

 

[prairiewindmomma]

Epilogue: A Photo

Spoiler

8 months pregnant Jill is sitting in a coffee shop with a "friend": "All I'm saying, Jill, is don't go throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I owe a lot to your parent. They're good people"

Jill notes she'd had similar conversations with others including the father of a kid engaged to one of her siblings.

----This really resonated with me. "Every time I find myself talking with someone who is curious about my family, especially when it's someone who shares an IBLP background, I ask myself some questions. How much truth can they handle? How much truth do they need? Do they actually seem genuinely interested in knowing more or do they seem combative? Will my conversation be beneficial for them in trying to help them figure things out?" Yes, Jill, yes!!! I ask myself those very same questions when I am around people of my former faith.  Rarely do they ever ask why I left directly.  They don't want to know. They are afraid to know. They worry that leaving may be contagious. They risk contamination even talking to me, so most don't.  They barely make eye contact in the grocery store.  We spend dozens of hours a week together, and I have cleaned your house, and fed your kids, and know the deep down intimacies of your relationships with your family and now you can't even look me in the eye and wave from 50 feet away.

Jill makes the gratitude wave--an acknowledgment of good things that came from her upbringing, and she kind of acknowledges that she has some ongoing wounds (minimizes them, I think) and states, "Only now can I look back and see things clearly, like the way IBLP fostered a culture of manipulation and abuse, and the fact that Pops eventually put the show above his own children, or the toll it took on my own mental health."

May 2022. She goes into labor, which triggers an early (planned) c-section. Her mom is there for the birth. Her dad comes to pick up Michelle a couple of days later, and comes in to their house (first time in three years) and holds baby Freddy.  They take a photo of JB and Freddy. She talks about this moment of needing to re-map reality: her parents are the same, but different, but the same.  I could really relate to that also.  Reframing relationships does that to you, I think.

 

Acknowledgments include the usual evangelical faith shoutout to Jesus and quoting of scripture, and are otherwise the usual list of thanks to people involved with the writing of the book and family and friends.

 

[TechWife]

I’m 32nd on the wait list for it. 
 

OK, I’m giving in. Kindle, here I come.

Edited September 13, 2023 by TechWife

[Kidlit]

Just used an Audible credit on it. Thanks for the reminder! Now--the question--do I finish the book I'm currently listening to or do I stop and listen to this one?  (I think I know the answer to this. .  .)

[Junie]

@prairiewindmomma Thank you so much!

[Katy]

58 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

Wow on that midnight drive.  On, like, eleventy-eleven different levels.

Please spoil the drive!

[Faith-manor]

I have a ton of thoughts. One of the deepest ones is that she called Josh a Pedophile to JB's face. That is huge. To IBLP dads,  that first born son is the golden child, never to be besmirched by anyone, all excuses for all disgusting behavior will be made. There is a reason that though my brother had four different affairs during his first marriage, my father did every kind of damage control he could think of, lied and claimed his son never did those things, and acted like a rabid dog at me for taking my sister in law's side when she couldn't take it anymore and kicked my stupid brother to the curb. It is absolutely HUGE that she used this term to his face. It is, in my opinion, the crucial, the crux moment in which her brain and heart were finally able to cut the cord that bound her to the lies, the deception, the abuse, the manipulation. She admitted to wanting the truth to be known, and for her brother to go to prison for a very long time. It was, in my mind, the defining moment for Jill to be free from the darkness her father had submersed her in her whole life.

Beyond that, I am still processing. However, I do want to post a trigger warning. Some folks might not want to read the section on Sam's birth. It is bad. It is astounding that she and that baby survived. If you have been through something like that, it is e going to be an easy read AND when you read next, the abusive antics of JimBob, it may trigger some not good thoughts.

[Faith-manor]

3 hours ago, Katy said:

Thanks for posting the spoilers @prairiewindmomma. I got the audible but I like Jill’s voice so I slowed it down to normal speed. And between one sick kid that’s unusually needy and one that was having problems with a teacher not following their IEP I’ve been unable to get past chapter 4.

I am slightly critical of her approach to telling the tiny amount she shared about Josh’s abuse. She used the story of her dad informing her, which is what she said on the tv interview. But people who leaked the story who went to church with them said that not only did Jill punch Josh, she’s the one who told their parents. And Josh accused her of her being a tattletale on him on camera at her wedding. It made the show. I wish she’d either addressed the disparity or indicated she didn’t want to talk about her abuse. As it is she seems like she’s lying about it. And while I don’t feel I’m entitled to private and complicated feelings, if she is going to discuss it I wish she cleared that up. 
 

Otherwise she seems remarkably candid so far. 

Jill has been fiercely protective of her siblings' privacy in this matter. I don't know that she can clear up the sequence of events without bringing them into it. I am pretty certain since Joy was on her "buddy team", which is code for " Joy's real mother", she is willing to let people think what they think than hurt the other victims by discussing it in detail and bringing even more focus to it.

The interview was concocted by JB and Megan Kelly, and the girls were under TLC contract to follow the script. She didn't have a choice about what she said in that interview, and Josh was kept off screen but in their line of vision which I can only imagine was for intimidation purposes. Sick. I really hope that a bevy of Eliot Ness like FBI and IRS agents descend upon James Robert Duggar like the plague that he so richly deserves!