Travel to poor countries…..helpful to them or harmful?

[Ottakee]

I just went on an amazing trip with a friend to an all inclusive in Cancun.  We got a steal of a deal…..2 people, 5 nights for $250….so about $25/person/day and that included ocean front room,  all meals, drinks,  activities, etc.

We did tip well but I sorta felt bad knowing that we were having all of these people serve us who then went home to very limited resources.  Knowing that they likely didn’t earn enough to be able to eat the meals we did, enjoy a pool, etc.

Is tourism like this helpful to the local people or does it make things worse for them?  I can see both sides but wondered if there are any good studies, etc that are more objective.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Ottakee

[Arcadia]

I am wondering the same about service trips e.g.

”Guatemala 2023 Service Leadership

Aug. 16-28, 2023

Cost: $2,650 (included, housing, meals, activities, and airfare out of SFO). 

About the Program

Spend the week volunteering in the mountainous villages of Vuelta Grande and El Hato, where you'll support school sites and experience what daily life is like in rural Guatemala.

Free time and evenings are spent in the colonial tourist town of Antigua. Volunteer work on this trip may include school beautification work in Vuelta Grande, as well as tutoring and helping in the classroom at a secondary school in Antigua.”

[Faith-manor]

44 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

I am wondering the same about service trips e.g.

”Guatemala 2023 Service Leadership

Aug. 16-28, 2023

Cost: $2,650 (included, housing, meals, activities, and airfare out of SFO). 

About the Program

Spend the week volunteering in the mountainous villages of Vuelta Grande and El Hato, where you'll support school sites and experience what daily life is like in rural Guatemala.

Free time and evenings are spent in the colonial tourist town of Antigua. Volunteer work on this trip may include school beautification work in Vuelta Grande, as well as tutoring and helping in the classroom at a secondary school in Antigua.”

I think many countries, in general and though poor, do have some dependence and need for tourism dollars. This goes beyond just the wage/tip of the individual because usually tourists are buying things, using their dollars in country. I am not sure it helps the nation to see a huge dip in tourism. It certainly hurt Egypt, and they have not recovered.

But in terms of service trips where Americans go to "help", I think that these are just a type of tourism that makes the tourist feel altruistic, yet is not of benefit. Doctors Without Borders, World Kitchen, and other NGO's that bring professionals with very specific skill sets to do specialized things, are of high value. Joe regular showing up to build a little house or preach or whatever? Hard no. The dollars being used to send " Joe not a professional and his teenage son" or whatever would be far better used to pay local folks to build the house. Tutoring would only be of value IF the person is fluent in the local language AND dialect. Otherwise, interpreters would need to be hired. Better to pay to educate the citizens of the local area to become teachers and tutors, and then provide wages for the work. That has long term value. Someone breezing into town for a week and needing an interpreter, then going back home, does not bring a long term value to the country.

Frankly, unless one is going to have a career overseas, there is zero benefit to the country to have anyone come just to "experience" life. I know I would not be thrilled with someone from say, Brazil or wherever, wanting to come stay in my village to experience my life, and then take off patting themselves on the back to help. It would be better if those people spent their dollars to go to the beach, eat out, get a massage, buy some rum or whatever.

[saraha]

59 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

I am wondering the same about service trips e.g.

”Guatemala 2023 Service Leadership

Aug. 16-28, 2023

Cost: $2,650 (included, housing, meals, activities, and airfare out of SFO). 

About the Program

Spend the week volunteering in the mountainous villages of Vuelta Grande and El Hato, where you'll support school sites and experience what daily life is like in rural Guatemala.

Free time and evenings are spent in the colonial tourist town of Antigua. Volunteer work on this trip may include school beautification work in Vuelta Grande, as well as tutoring and helping in the classroom at a secondary school in Antigua.”

I did a very similar trip in 2008 through the Nazarene church. The missionaries that lived in country ended up leaving the denomination and started their own no affiliated group. He was native Guatemalan and had definite ideas of how his country could be helped about mission trips. It was eye opening to hear him talk about the corruption in government of his childhood and to have him talk candidly with those of us who were able to see a little deeper. Not everyone on that trip was willing to think past the vbs type activities and the good feels.
The idea that our district superintendent lived in a huge house and drove a Lexus compared to their district superintendent who lived in a building owned by the church and was there at its leisure and had no actual kitchen to cook in was eye opening. That trip was life changing for me.

As for the community, I have mixed feelings. We flooded their school with cheap vbs trinkets and set up a Polaroid picture booth. We brought school supplies, vitamins and money to buy building materials. We left all of our clothes except what we were wearing for the flight back behind to be given away. The missionary encouraged everyone to be generous with all the people that tried ti sell us stuff. We built a church/community center and because I was a nursing mom, the missionary’s wife had me demonstrate how to use a hand pump to the young mothers while she talked. I know basic Spanish and she was explaining to them that having a pump like that meant they could feed their babies without being tied down to them. It left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by saraha

[Carol in Cal.]

I mostly agree with you, Faith, but also I think that often people come back from an exposure like that with a new zeal to be of help down the road, and that that can bear good fruit.

It is a complicated issue.

One of my favorite novels treats it more or less from all sides—“Cause Celeb”—the debut novel of Helen Fielding of ‘Bridget Jones’ fame.  Before becoming an author she worked in Africa for a while.

[prairiewindmomma]

I always ask the question: “Who does the money go to?” and “Is this a living wage?” 
 

So, for the guy who owns a parasailing day trip company, tourism is a great deal. For the construction worker in Dubai who has his passport taken by his employer and who is housed in a concrete hut with inadequate food and sanitation—tourism is not a good deal.

Mission trips have even more mixed pictures, I think. First, there is the danger of white savior syndrome. Second, the funds used by your travel could actually help more directly invested into locals. Third, where possible, efforts should be made to stimulate local economies in perpetuating ways rather than bring in outside resources.

So, fund a scholarship and laptop for a Honduran girl living in a bordo rather than spend a week volunteering in a Honduran school.

[Arcadia]

@Faith-manor@saraha the one I quoted is co-organized by the community college my teens take classes at. So I was wondering if the service trip is mutually beneficial.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Ottakee said:

I just went on an amazing trip with a friend to an all inclusive in Cancun.  We got a steal of a deal…..2 people, 5 nights for $250….so about $25/person/day and that included ocean front room,  all meals, drinks,  activities, etc.

We did tip well but I sorta felt bad knowing that we were having all of these people serve us who then went home to very limited resources.  Knowing that they likely didn’t earn enough to be able to eat the meals we did, enjoy a pool, etc.

Is tourism like this helpful to the local people or does it make things worse for them?  I can see both sides but wondered if there are any good studies, etc that are more objective.

I'm going to read the replies, but wanted to say thank you for asking such an excellent question! I think I've had this same question in the back of my mind, but never been able to fully put it into words. 

[ktgrok]

I think looking into working conditions and if they are paid a living wage (which may very well be much different than a living wage here) is a good starting point - although I admit I wouldn't know exactly HOW to do that. Heck, I'm hesitant to even get my nails done anymore after reading about human trafficking and inhumane practices within the Vietnamese staffed nail salons - which are most of them. But if/when I get my toenail fungus fixed (follow up laser treatment is next week...sigh...I'm about ready to say just remove the dang nail) I'd LOVE a pedicure! But not if I'm worried that my money is supporting a form of slavery. And that's IN the US. Vetting a place outside the US seems even more difficult. 

[ktgrok]

Regarding mission trips...ugh. I'm of mixed mind. The ones that involve untrained youth going to sing bible songs and hand out trinkets I'm 100% opposed to. 

Our church is doing one, and it seems more legit, but I am just wary of anything related to the word "mission trip". They are going to a reservation in South Dakota. They were invited, they will be building sustainable infrastructure withot the locals - things like hoop houses and other agricultural needs. Again, this is at the invitation of the people there, and the church will NOT be preaching or handing out Bibles or trying to convert anyone. It is a work trip. There will be worship, but back at home base just for the people that are on the trip, not something aimed at the locals. 

Part of me still gets that icky feeling with the whole white savior thing. Another part of me resonates with Pope Francis' thoughts about needing to get your hands dirty, not just donate money, in order to learn compassion. But then again it is not the job of people living on a reservation in poverty to teach people from Florida compassion. So it is using them to do so? Or is it a symbiosis that is good for everyone - the people volunteering interacting with a community of people they otherwise wouldn't, and the locals seeing that people across the country do care about them, and of course the tangible benefit of the actual work done.  I don't know the answer. I was uneasy enough about the entire idea that we did not sign up to go on the trip (of course, I also didn't want the time commitment of raising money for it - travel costs are covered mostly by fundraisers). 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

I should nuance my above post a bit. My definition of living wage is a bit broader than I posted above…my old neighbor has a charitable organization based out of San Pedro Sula in Honduras. She teaches people how to do hand sewing (which they do on their own time, and which they do because they don’t have access to sewing machines etc. in their homes) but pays them in material goods because any cash given to them would be taken either by the gangs in the bordo or by their partners. It felt very paternalistic to me when I first heard why she was handling things that way, but as she explained the situation, it made more sense. 
So, they work towards a concrete floor or a tin roof or school fees or whatever they choose—but aren’t paid in the way we typically think of compensation. I am ok with that kind of model.

[athena1277]

I think it depends on the organization or person.  Consider 2 churches I know of who do mission work in India.  Neither is takes large groups, but does occasionally send small group to teach/encourage/check on the work and supports full time missionaries.  Church A doesn’t send money or items except for things like build a church building and financial support for the missionary.  They believe that if they give members things like clothes, they will convert just for the physical stuff.  Church B supports the missionary/church, but also started an orphanage to help keep parentless kids off the street and give them an education.  The orphanage is run by widows because there is a stigma there about second marriages and it’s very hard for widows to support themselves.  They also give some women sewing machines (old school style that doesn’t need electricity) and teaches them to sew so they can support themselves.  Sometimes they buy saris and blankets for the orphanages.  Those are bought with donations from Americans, but bought locally in India.  
 

While Church A have valid reasons for the way they are doing things, church B is having a much greater impact.  They can’t change the entire country, but they are making a significant difference in the area they are working in, spiritually and physically.

[Faith-manor]

4 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Regarding mission trips...ugh. I'm of mixed mind. The ones that involve untrained youth going to sing bible songs and hand out trinkets I'm 100% opposed to. 

Our church is doing one, and it seems more legit, but I am just wary of anything related to the word "mission trip". They are going to a reservation in South Dakota. They were invited, they will be building sustainable infrastructure withot the locals - things like hoop houses and other agricultural needs. Again, this is at the invitation of the people there, and the church will NOT be preaching or handing out Bibles or trying to convert anyone. It is a work trip. There will be worship, but back at home base just for the people that are on the trip, not something aimed at the locals. 

Part of me still gets that icky feeling with the whole white savior thing. Another part of me resonates with Pope Francis' thoughts about needing to get your hands dirty, not just donate money, in order to learn compassion. But then again it is not the job of people living on a reservation in poverty to teach people from Florida compassion. So it is using them to do so? Or is it a symbiosis that is good for everyone - the people volunteering interacting with a community of people they otherwise wouldn't, and the locals seeing that people across the country do care about them, and of course the tangible benefit of the actual work done.  I don't know the answer. I was uneasy enough about the entire idea that we did not sign up to go on the trip (of course, I also didn't want the time commitment of raising money for it - travel costs are covered mostly by fundraisers). 

 

See. same. I know so many that are just proselytizing and teens holding a "Vbs" and they don't even speak the language.

But on the other hand, when my mother in law was still working as a pediatric nurse, she went annually to Nicaragua, and did pediatric nursing. One month of vaccines, teaching, administering antibiotics for infections, assisting doctors with treatments, running full on pop up health clinics, and prenatal care as well. That is beneficial because every single person on the team was a professional medical practitioner.  I also didn't have a problem when Mark's cousin, a well driller, bought equipment to be kept in Haiti, and goes every three years to dig needed wells in villages without healthy water. Again, does a professional thing and leaves, and all at his own expense. What he doesn't do is run around preaching, and making people pat him on the back for being there or have to convert in order to be helped, and there is so much of that kind of thing attached to missions tourism that I tend to be SUPER skeptical.

[Faith-manor]

I should also state that my husband has been to foreign lands to do volunteer IT and electrical engineering work for DWB. He works 12-14 hour days. So we do have personal experience with it. I have personally been to a foreign country, a very poor one, twice to provide personal care for a friend who is a trauma therapist working there, but needed surgery. I took care of her, her children the house, getting the kids to and from school. I most certainly had exposure to local life, and experienced a lot of things - it isn't easy to grocery shop when you do not speak very much of the language - but my purpose in being there was for her and her family, not to pretend I was doing a great thing for the people.

[ktgrok]

11 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I should also state that my husband has been to foreign lands to do volunteer IT and electrical engineering work for DWB. He works 12-14 hour days. So we do have personal experience with it. I have personally been to a foreign country, a very poor one, twice to provide personal care for a friend who is a trauma therapist working there, but needed surgery. I took care of her, her children the house, getting the kids to and from school. I most certainly had exposure to local life, and experienced a lot of things - it isn't easy to grocery shop when you do not speak very much of the language - but my purpose in being there was for her and her family, not to pretend I was doing a great thing for the people.

So, two questions.

1. IT people are needed to help DWB???? I wonder if infosec people would be needed at any point? DH would be all about that. 

2. Do you think that your family's experience changed them in a way that helped them to be better people, or to be more compassionate in a way that just donating would not have?

Bonus question for anyone reading - if such volunteering DOES change the individual doing it, in a way that makes them a better person who is more of a force for good in the rest of their lives, IS that a valid reason to be involved in such a thing. Or does that dehumanize the people they are helping? OR does being immersed in the community they are helping truly help them be better allies? I'm thinking of something sort of related to the idea that our hearts grow and are changed via relationships more than facts. So working in relationship together with othe rpeople is more likely to make you an ally than just reading about them and donating? Obviously we SHOULD be empathetic anyway, but there is a different level when there is lived experience I think? 

[fairfarmhand]

2 hours ago, Arcadia said:

I am wondering the same about service trips e.g.

”Guatemala 2023 Service Leadership

Aug. 16-28, 2023

Cost: $2,650 (included, housing, meals, activities, and airfare out of SFO). 

About the Program

Spend the week volunteering in the mountainous villages of Vuelta Grande and El Hato, where you'll support school sites and experience what daily life is like in rural Guatemala.

Free time and evenings are spent in the colonial tourist town of Antigua. Volunteer work on this trip may include school beautification work in Vuelta Grande, as well as tutoring and helping in the classroom at a secondary school in Antigua.”

Yeah. Mission/service trips I definitely have mixed feeling about. Not necessarily the ones where doctors and dentists and engineers go to places where there are none, but more things like the above.

my relative lives overseas and does missions in a country that’s not all that friendly to Christians. They hate it when most missions groups come through. Handing out tracts and street witnessing in their country can increase persecution of the existing Christians in that place. And most Americans are oblivious that their form of helping actually hurts.

[Faith-manor]

Just now, ktgrok said:

So, two questions.

1. IT people are needed to help DWB???? I wonder if infosec people would be needed at any point? DH would be all about that. 

2. Do you think that your family's experience changed them in a way that helped them to be better people, or to be more compassionate in a way that just donating would not have?

Bonus question for anyone reading - if such volunteering DOES change the individual doing it, in a way that makes them a better person who is more of a force for good in the rest of their lives, IS that a valid reason to be involved in such a thing. Or does that dehumanize the people they are helping? OR does being immersed in the community they are helping truly help them be better allies? I'm thinking of something sort of related to the idea that our hearts grow and are changed via relationships more than facts. So working in relationship together with othe rpeople is more likely to make you an ally than just reading about them and donating? Obviously we SHOULD be empathetic anyway, but there is a different level when there is lived experience I think? 

The situation was one of needing help with computerized equipment that needed a lot of updates and repairs that could not be done remotely, and needed some expertise. Specific situation, specific hospital/clinic/outpost...can't say here. He was asked specifically because he is best buddies with one of the doctors. I can't really say more. 

As for family. I mean, I don't think I am a better or worse person for helping her. It just needed to be done. I was there for her, not "the country". Family members who have engaged in missionary work, a week or two at a time with more of the generic "go have a VBS or go give away trinkets or go build a 10'x12' building" type trips came back excited about helping for about a month, and then life went back to normal, and the only thing heard about ever again was all about the tourism activities. They loved the beach, the mountain hike, the snorkeling, the whatever, crickets on everything else, and they did not become active in anyway with future anything in those countries. Mil? Well, nursing and pediatrics was her thing. Her passion. She had passion before she left, and passion when she got back. She went three times, and always with a group of professionals, and she would have continued going if a certain person had not been elected to the presidency, and shut down their program. Well drilling cousin does not go with any mission group. He funds everything he does - cousin has some serious bucks - and is committed to the country. However, he was committed to it before he ever went. He and his wife adopted a baby of a relative from that country, and he felt it was important that he use his skills in a practical way to help. His actions are not also linked specifically to religion either. My sister taught for one year on an N.A. reservation. It affected her. But she also has HUGE issues, just epic issues, with mission tourism. According to her, it causes more problems than the minimal benefit of it. I have had three nieces and two nephews go on "mission trips", and they were absolutely colossal wastes of money and resources. None of the people had anything to offer.

Here is my ultimate thought. I don't think other countries owe Americans a life changing experience in order to motivate them to have compassion for others or promote better policies or give money to genuine causes. It is a bit demeaning or something. I don't know that much thought is given to the perspective of the people putting up with the mission tourists who come.

[Clemsondana]

I'm dubious about some mission trips, but I also know of situations where unskilled hands are needed.  Some disaster clean-up efforts just need people who will work.  There are obviously needs for skilled workers to do construction, but moving debris after a hurricane just needs workers.  My mom's church sent workers to a domestic location for a decade after a major hurricane hit - the news goes away after a few weeks, but it takes much longer to get everybody back into houses.  A youth group that I know of did many small local mission projects - wheelchair ramps, etc - and once there was a crew that could actually do something, a group went to Puerto Rico to work.  Following a couple of natural disasters, there weren't enough people to do the work so just sending money wouldn't have helped.  They went to the same church twice - I know that one time they dug, by hand, a trench to run drain pipes to stop the continued flooding of the building.  

Another situation that I know of involved a group from a church going to Belize every year for 5+ years.  They went to the same place and got to know the people.  They took machines and taught sewing one year.  Another year they took/bought bikes and repair supplies so that the kids could get to school.  The group would stay 1-2 weeks, but there were some members who stayed longer or make another trip during the year.  

I don't tend to be a fan of the 'do a Bible school' thing or other make-work projects, but I do think that there are times when a group can go to do a particular job and establish long-term relationships so that they can find out what is actually needed.  But, I think the same thing about most domestic volunteer work.  I've done volunteer gigs at after-school places, and have stayed at each 2, 6, and 3 (and counting) years.  You can help a little any time, but become much more effective once you've been someplace a while and know the needs and the kids.  I'd imagine that's true of most places unless, as with the examples above, they just need hands (our youth once spent an afternoon locally helping to move junk into a dumpster, for instance - one and done is fine for that).  

[SKL]

Yes, tourism is helpful to the local workers.  What would be the benefit of them not having a paying job?  They need that money to provide food and education to their kids.  Maybe allow the kids to stay in school a little longer before they have to go get a job themselves.  And yes, tips are great.  Hopefully they are kept by the workers.

Even US tourism involves service workers who can't afford the luxuries they are providing.

We just came back from Guatemala.  We went there to observe some unique customs related to Holy Week.  When leaving, we had some leftover food.  We asked the hotel people if they could use it or if we should toss it.  They were very thankful to have it.

I'm not sure about service mission trips ... I guess it depends on the specifics of the trip.  While it's nice to build things, there might be more bang for one's charitable buck in donating the cash for local people to buy local materials and do the work.

There are pros and cons in spending US money to "see the world."  I believe that seeing how most of the world lives is good for our kids.  Whether it's helpful (or at least neutral) for the parts of the world being visited depends on what they do there.

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

So, two questions.

1. IT people are needed to help DWB???? I wonder if infosec people would be needed at any point? DH would be all about that. 

2. Do you think that your family's experience changed them in a way that helped them to be better people, or to be more compassionate in a way that just donating would not have?

Bonus question for anyone reading - if such volunteering DOES change the individual doing it, in a way that makes them a better person who is more of a force for good in the rest of their lives, IS that a valid reason to be involved in such a thing. Or does that dehumanize the people they are helping? OR does being immersed in the community they are helping truly help them be better allies? I'm thinking of something sort of related to the idea that our hearts grow and are changed via relationships more than facts. So working in relationship together with othe rpeople is more likely to make you an ally than just reading about them and donating? Obviously we SHOULD be empathetic anyway, but there is a different level when there is lived experience I think? 

Just seeing how people live who are not as materially endowed as you can make people far more empathetic.  I have seen this over and over.  I don’t know whether it always ‘takes’ and lasts but I know it happens, even from exposure here in the US.

[ktgrok]

8 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Just seeing how people live who are not as materially endowed as you can make people far more empathetic.  I have seen this over and over.  I don’t know whether it always ‘takes’ and lasts but I know it happens, even from exposure here in the US.

I tend to agree...even people from a different culture from you - even a slightly different one, expands one's perspective. I know that I consider the year I attended a majority African American school, and was one of only three white people in the combined marching band/flag corp, to have been very important as far as my life experiences go. But on the other hand, I was there 5 days a week for 9 months, not for a week. Attending religious services different from my own gives me a different perspective as well, etc etc. 

[SKL]

9 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Just seeing how people live who are not as materially endowed as you can make people far more empathetic.  I have seen this over and over.  I don’t know whether it always ‘takes’ and lasts but I know it happens, even from exposure here in the US.

In addition, it can hopefully reduce the sense of entitlement that first world living can create.  The "I was sad that I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet" concept.  I know it was a big deal for me in my 20s to see just how poor "poor" is in certain Asian countries.  Families sleeping on the road with nothing between their faces and the filthy pavement.  Children never receiving any academic education because they have to work and can't afford the school uniform.  Some of the things my kids whine about are so freaking ridiculous.  I hope world travel grounds them a bit.

And while there's no direct benefit in that to the local people, hopefully it impacts the way tourists spend their money and time back home.  How many pairs of jeans / shoes do I need, and can I really not use this coat for another year?  How many children could that money feed and educate in another place?

[Faith-manor]

Just now, Carol in Cal. said:

Just seeing how people live who are not as materially endowed as you can make people far more empathetic.  I have seen this over and over.  I don’t know whether it always ‘takes’ and lasts but I know it happens, even from exposure here in the US.

But the thing is, it is kind of exploitative. When other nations send us relief aid for hurricanes and what not, they don't need to see it to believe it. Why are Americans so different? There is enough journalism with photos about these things that it is really disturbing that someone has to go into someone else's backyard in order to feel compassion.

It really bothers me.

I also don't know how to get our culture to be more empathetic.

 

[Faith-manor]

8 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I tend to agree...even people from a different culture from you - even a slightly different one, expands one's perspective. I know that I consider the year I attended a majority African American school, and was one of only three white people in the combined marching band/flag corp, to have been very important as far as my life experiences go. But on the other hand, I was there 5 days a week for 9 months, not for a week. Attending religious services different from my own gives me a different perspective as well, etc etc. 

Definitely, duration is the thing. Going for a week or two doesn't foster cultural sensitivity or empathy. A year? Absolutely can be life changing.

[SKL]

23 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

But the thing is, it is kind of exploitative. When other nations send us relief aid for hurricanes and what not, they don't need to see it to believe it. Why are Americans so different? There is enough journalism with photos about these things that it is really disturbing that someone has to go into someone else's backyard in order to feel compassion.

It really bothers me.

I also don't know how to get our culture to be more empathetic.

There are multiple reasons why everyone (not just Americans) need to see it to believe it.

For one thing, you can't believe the majority of what you see on TV or the internet ... especially things that include "please send money."

For another thing, we've trained ourselves to view 2D things as unreal, because so much of it is unreal or distorted.  Recently someone posted a video of people watching a film of an approaching train for the first time.  They got scared, thinking the train was going to actually hit them.  But before we were born, our population understood that whatever's on that box is not really happening in real life.  Dorothy didn't really get picked up by a tornado.  The horses in the Civil War movies didn't really die.  Even "true stories" sometimes end up not being true.

Thirdly, even if you believe stunting hunger and illiteracy exist, it's a whole different understanding when you look into the actual people's eyes and feel their vibrations.  For me, the most moving thing was seeing how much the people smiled despite everything.  How much they valued the things they did have ... their family, friends, music, dance, a basic meal earned by a day of work or given as "god food" at a temple.  Little kids at the village school being asked to recite the nursery rhymes they learned.  It shows how much real spiritual and material potential there is in everyone, and I do think that impacts our priorities back home.

Edited April 12, 2023 by SKL

[Ottakee]

2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I'm going to read the replies, but wanted to say thank you for asking such an excellent question! I think I've had this same question in the back of my mind, but never been able to fully put it into words. 

I did’t Word it well but that is my heart pondering this.

[bookbard]

They did research on this years ago, I think it was based on the Peace Corps, whether they helped - it was between 'negative and neutral'. That was in 90s, probably a heap of research since then. I agree that travel definitely broadens the mind, though. 

[SKL]

I would also say that Cancun probably isn't "poor" from a global perspective.

It was pointed out to me this week that Guatemala is, per the World Bank, an "upper-middle-income country."

Just another perspective thing.  We really need to understand how different the US, Canada, Australia, Western Europe, and a few other places are from the rest of the world population.

[ktgrok]

I think in my head some of it is motive. "Look at these poor savages! I'm so lucky I'm not like them" is SO icky. "Hey, these are people just like you and I, lets lend a hand" seems less icky. 

[Clarita]

I'm really torn about this stuff. Tourism dollars are certainly apart of many country's economies, even the US. So obviously those can be good. To me one issue that stems from mission trip types of tourism (I don't know what to call the non-religious ones) is I feel some come out with a mentality that either all the people of that country are living in extreme poverty and/or that entire region can never be out of poverty. 

I have a friend who would go on these mission trips and one time they just took a regular vacation to China. they were super disappointed that the bathroom in their hotel room was a regular bathroom you know with plumbing and a working toilet, because they wanted a "immersive cultural experience" and thus expected a floor toilet and not working plumbing (??).  It was very offensive because being in poverty is not anyone's culture. This interaction made me feel that sometimes one of the impacts these short term, look at people less fortunate than you, vacations also breeds weird thoughts in people that other countries culture includes their poverty.

[Ottakee]

Thanks for all of the thoughtful responses.   
 

I do think relationships over time do influence giving and ties to an area, etc. for example, I am much more likely to give money to support a medical student in Haiti because I know the missionary there that raised him for 12 years and have followed his story all that time.    
 

That mission in Haiti has one white man and about 20 native Haitians working there so it is very much a support the locals and hire them type situation.

[Clarita]

I'm pretty sure I didn't word my comments right, but these types of thoughts and statements are really jarring for me. I think in part because some of these mission trip destinations are also actual vacation spots that I would go to because they are also actually nice places. 

[Carol in Cal.]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

But the thing is, it is kind of exploitative. When other nations send us relief aid for hurricanes and what not, they don't need to see it to believe it. Why are Americans so different? There is enough journalism with photos about these things that it is really disturbing that someone has to go into someone else's backyard in order to feel compassion.

It really bothers me.

I also don't know how to get our culture to be more empathetic.

 

I don’t think that you necessarily have to go to someone else’s backyard, but the photos tend to be pretty sanitized, and the full import of what you hear and see is not usually as extreme as the grinding reality.  I was an adult before I realized that slave ships involved people chained up and lying in their own excrement for weeks.  I heard the version with the nasty bucket in the corner and the trips to the deck, which sounded more frequent than they actually were.  I had a lot of sympathy (and outrage!) for the victims of the Middle Passage but I did not even remotely understand the extent of it.

Lots of things are like that.

And frankly, we are one of the most habitually generous countries and peoples in the world, and part of that is personal witness/personal testimony.

[Carol in Cal.]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Definitely, duration is the thing. Going for a week or two doesn't foster cultural sensitivity or empathy. A year? Absolutely can be life changing.

I’ve seen otherwise though.

Locally we have mostly fairly class-income linked neighborhoods.  It’s really easy not to realize that there are very poor people here if you never see where they live.  I grew up in San Francisco and largely wasn’t allowed to even take a bus or drive through neighborhoods where people lived marginally, because it was literally dangerous to do so, but that meant that until I had a compelling reason to start sneaking there I did not know that there were families of 4 that lived in a walk up studio with lots of roaches and a bunch of very overpriced grocery stores being the only ones they could reach because they were within walking distance.  

Where I live now there are boarding houses with entire families crowded into SRO rooms, barely making rent even on those.  And relatively few of the people I deal with most days have any direct experience seeing that.  So just realizing that is quite eye opening, and it can definitely change the way people view poverty, marginal economics, and other issues.

When my DD started at her brick and mortar high school that drew girls from all over the city, she was the only freshman who was allowed to take the bus.  Just being on the bus exposed her to types of people that her classmates literally never saw.

I helped chaperone a bunch of them to a ‘volunteer day’ introduction to the schools volunteering requirements and opportunities and subsequently to visit an elementary school within walking distance.  I listened to the girls talking on the way back.  They were stunned that there were children who were 3 years behind grade level in their state testing—something they had never ever experienced.  A bunch of them committed and followed through to volunteer tutoring weekly for the whole school year, far exceeding the requirement, because they were so struck by the need.  (BTW, these kids were well dressed in their school uniforms, and articulate, and intelligent.  But they were way behind, for various reasons, especially no way to study outside of school and also virtually all of them being ESL kids.)

Sometimes it just takes a couple of hours to learn something very new.

[Amira]

I have many concerns about humanitarian tourism, most of which have been mentioned above, but one thing I want to say is that every country is worth visiting.  Every country has interesting history, beautiful sites, delicious food, and capable people. Some aren’t possible to visit as a tourist for different reasons, but they’re still inherently worth visiting. Humanitarian tourism or mission trips are too often marketed as a way to see the difficulties people and nations are having. No one wants someone to come to their neighborhood and gawk at that.  Countries that are open to tourism want you to come see the good there. If I want to learn about the challenges a country is having, then I read a book.  Find out the causes of those difficulties.  Learn which groups are actually working locally, with local ideas and staff, to make a difference. And if I want to spend my money to help alleviate those challenges, I donate to people who know what they’re doing. If you want to experience a new place, both the good and the challenging, because that’s the way every country is, then go, and be a conscientious tourist and pay attention to how your tourism dollars are spent and used. But don’t make other people’s problems what you’re looking at, and don’t think you can solve anyone’s problems.

I’ve lived for years in low- and middle-income countries.  I’ve reminded people not to take photos of piles of trash (or even to look like they are), to not call neighborhoods “Garbage City” instead of their real names, and to realize that when enough tourists complain about a “dirty” neighborhood near a tourist site, it might get razed and the residents displaced with no compensation.  Tourists have a lot of influence and they should pay attention to the impact they have.

To be clear, this isn’t directed at anyone in this thread.  I’m thinking more of the many years of bad tourist behavior I’ve seen and how tourists and humanitarians can do better.

[Faith-manor]

Amira, thank you. You came up with the word I was struggling to find. Gawking. I do feel like missions/humanitarian tourism is gawking. I think there are a lot of unintended consequences, as you say, like getting an area razed because people who do not understand the situation decide to vocalize an opinion.

You are so right though. Every country has its own unique wonderfulness, and seeing it and spending appropriately and conscientiously around the world is a good thing.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Faith-manor said:

Amira, thank you. You came up with the word I was struggling to find. Gawking. I do feel like missions/humanitarian tourism is gawking. I think there are a lot of unintended consequences, as you say, like getting an area razed because people who do not understand the situation decide to vocalize an opinion.

You are so right though. Every country has its own unique wonderfulness, and seeing it and spending appropriately and conscientiously around the world is a good thing.

Yes! Gawking vs making friends and building relationships. 

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

Yes! Gawking vs making friends and building relationships. 

Perfect. And making friends and building relationships takes time, sensitivity, education/skill, and patience.

[sassenach]

7 hours ago, Ottakee said:

I just went on an amazing trip with a friend to an all inclusive in Cancun.  We got a steal of a deal…..2 people, 5 nights for $250….so about $25/person/day and that included ocean front room,  all meals, drinks,  activities, etc.

We did tip well but I sorta felt bad knowing that we were having all of these people serve us who then went home to very limited resources.  Knowing that they likely didn’t earn enough to be able to eat the meals we did, enjoy a pool, etc.

Is tourism like this helpful to the local people or does it make things worse for them?  I can see both sides but wondered if there are any good studies, etc that are more objective.

We tip every single person we interact with when we go to Mexico. I think for an area where tourism is their main resource, it is helpful to  contribute to that resource as long as you don't exploit it (ie: not tipping is exploiting it, imo).

BTW that's an absolute steal- where did you go? We've been to Mexico several times and while it's cheaper than Hawaii, it's never been anywhere near $500 for 5 days.

[Carol in Cal.]

A book to read with your kids about some of these issues is The Braids Girl.  I recommend it.

[SKL]

Just thought I'd clarify that my first trip to India was as a guest of someone from there.  We spent 3 weeks traveling all around India, mostly by car.  We saw fabulous places rich in culture and history, and passed many rural villages in between.  It wasn't slum tourism nor a mission trip.  But my friend had been active in charity work (tutoring orphan girls etc.) when she lived in India, and she took us to visit some of the organizations she worked with.  We saw the kids recite, joined them for a meal on the floor, and helped tuck the littlest ones into bed.

The contrast from our life is inescapable.  You can't help seeing it.  I don't think I was gawking; if anything, I pretended not to see a lot of things.  But I took the feel of the whole experience back with me.

[kirstenhill]

39 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Yes! Gawking vs making friends and building relationships. 

33 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Perfect. And making friends and building relationships takes time, sensitivity, education/skill, and patience.

I also think long term relationships can open the door for helpful, appropriate shorter term trips.  One of the pastors at our church has developed long term friendships with a couple different pastors in Latin American countries.  One his friends, a pastor in Honduras, invited our church to bring a team to help them with medical clinics they wanted to hold.  Our church sent nurses, as well as unskilled volunteers (including my DH and DS16), and skilled and unskilled volunteers alike were able to help put the clinic on in a way that the local church didn't have the manpower to do.  Whether it is setting up a room to be used as a clinic, playing with kids while parents or siblings are being seen in the clinic, or the nurses helping with the medical care, they did what the local church found it helpful for them to do.   DH and DS16 both said it was wonderful to get to know families from the church there and see how much they have in common in the faith, even across cultures. 

[Momto6inIN]

We came home from our Cancun trip with many of the same feelings. We tipped well, and we hoped our tourism dollars contributed to the resort employees having a steady source of income. But it was an odd feeling to be waited on hand and foot and it made me feel vaguely uncomfortable.

Missions trips can do a lot of good, but they can also do a lot of harm. Our church youth group is going to a long-established village for deaf people in Jamaica this summer. The long term missionaries there are very appreciative of people coming to visit, as it is encouraging to them to fellowship with other believers and to be reminded that they are cared about. It fosters good relationships. But they do warn against some of the common mistakes short-term mission groups make and asked the group to read and discuss the book Helping Without Hurting and watch the related videos before coming. The videos/book have been very eye-opening for the students and the parents as well.

[Ottakee]

8 hours ago, sassenach said:

We tip every single person we interact with when we go to Mexico. I think for an area where tourism is their main resource, it is helpful to  contribute to that resource as long as you don't exploit it (ie: not tipping is exploiting it, imo).

BTW that's an absolute steal- where did you go? We've been to Mexico several times and while it's cheaper than Hawaii, it's never been anywhere near $500 for 5 days.

We went to Gar Solaris in Cancun.  It was actually $250 for the 5 days total for 2 of us……$$125 each.

[Carrie12345]

15 hours ago, Ottakee said:

I just went on an amazing trip with a friend to an all inclusive in Cancun.  We got a steal of a deal…..2 people, 5 nights for $250….so about $25/person/day and that included ocean front room,  all meals, drinks,  activities, etc.

We did tip well but I sorta felt bad knowing that we were having all of these people serve us who then went home to very limited resources.  Knowing that they likely didn’t earn enough to be able to eat the meals we did, enjoy a pool, etc.

Is tourism like this helpful to the local people or does it make things worse for them?  I can see both sides but wondered if there are any good studies, etc that are more objective.

I live in a US location that leans heavily on tourism. I would absolutely prefer that this lovely area NOT do that but, honestly, how does a place divorce themself from that? Once established, the only thing to really do is manage it as ethically as possible.

I don’t know about the cost of living specifically in Cancun. I do know the coat of living here and that resorts and attractions don’t pay living wages to the average worker, but neither do the typical places of employment for similarly skilled jobs… here or in any given US town with franchises or corporate retail/hospitality.

Is that justification? No. Is it the current reality? Yes.

 Dirt cheap travel to other countries does give me a yuck feeling, but I’m programmed to think in US dollars and lifestyles. It doesn’t work to measure apples against oranges.

When it comes to volunteerism, that’s a whole other thing. Providing genuine support might be good. Providing Americanism (or any other brand of colonizing thought) is a different ball of wax.

[vonfirmath]

11 hours ago, kirstenhill said:

I also think long term relationships can open the door for helpful, appropriate shorter term trips.  One of the pastors at our church has developed long term friendships with a couple different pastors in Latin American countries.  One his friends, a pastor in Honduras, invited our church to bring a team to help them with medical clinics they wanted to hold.  Our church sent nurses, as well as unskilled volunteers (including my DH and DS16), and skilled and unskilled volunteers alike were able to help put the clinic on in a way that the local church didn't have the manpower to do.  Whether it is setting up a room to be used as a clinic, playing with kids while parents or siblings are being seen in the clinic, or the nurses helping with the medical care, they did what the local church found it helpful for them to do.   DH and DS16 both said it was wonderful to get to know families from the church there and see how much they have in common in the faith, even across cultures. 

I am planning to take my son to Honduras next summer and it is a lot like this. We sponsor several kids in the churches there through a  mission program and they organize trips to help take care of certain tasks that need more manpower. (in February, for example -- to distribute the backpacks and update information on all the kids in the program). But yes -- some of it is accountability. We get to see the kids we have been writing to and how our money is being spent.  They also said that they encourage people to come on these trips because they find they become much more effective communicators back in America if they can catch the vision there.  And some go on to become full time mission workers after they catch the vision so throughly and move and go on to consider Honduras their home.   Not all of us have medical training (though they did just have a medical group go down) But we all have relationships there and visiting fosters the relationship.

[SKL]

Coincidentally, last week I was a tourist in the same town where some of my scholarship students reside.  I could have asked to arrange a meeting with them through the sponsoring organization.  However, I didn't choose to do that.  I feel like the children will be (or feel) expected to act a certain way to show appreciation or whatever ... and while there's nothing wrong with appreciation, I don't feel the demonstration should be forced, especially from anyone over, say, 8yo.  I feel like it would be somewhat dehumanizing.

It would also be a bit awkward for my daughters, who regret not having learned enough Spanish to interact with locals in their birth country.

Maybe there could be a way for me to meet these beautiful young ladies in a way that respects them as my daughters' equals.  I haven't yet figured out how that would work though.

Edited April 13, 2023 by SKL