Vent: College not cancelling classes

[Soror]

For the second time in less than a week dh's college has not cancelled classes. All of the other schools have cancelled. The local government offices are cancelled. It's ridiculous. Yes, lots of students are on campus but a sizeable amount also commute. Besides the fact that as slick as my deck is I can't imagine all the sidewalks are safe. I sent them a very ranty message. Not that they care but it made me feel better.

[Kassia]

Oh, this makes me so mad.  Some colleges are known for never closing.  It's just too dangerous and risky IMO to hold classes in icy conditions.  I've heard of students slipping on ice and breaking bones and, of course, there are all the driving issues too.  No one can drive safely on ice.  Glad you sent a message.  

[HomeAgain]

Good for you!

I've had professors send out messages to all their classes stating "if you can't make it to campus, don't worry.  The notes will be posted online.  It's more important to stay safe than attend class."  Even those of us in the Zoom option got the messages.

Hopefully the professors at your college have the same sort of latitude and best interests at heart, even if the campus doesn't.

[Katy]

I totally agree. Why is attendance more important than safety?

[cjzimmer1]

53 minutes ago, Soror said:

For the second time in less than a week dh's college has not cancelled classes. All of the other schools have cancelled. The local government offices are cancelled. It's ridiculous. Yes, lots of students are on campus but a sizeable amount also commute. Besides the fact that as slick as my deck is I can't imagine all the sidewalks are safe. I sent them a very ranty message. Not that they care but it made me feel better.

My son went to a college like this.  Didn't close no matter what.  I remember one year the actual HIGH temp for the day was predicted at-14 and windchill was something like -35.  Yep they still had classes.  The campus is huge most students have 10-15 minute walks even when they live on campus and more if they commute.  We live close enough to campus that son wasn't even eligible to get a parking pass so he had to roam the streets trying to find a parking spot and it wasn't uncommon for him to have a 20-30 minute walk from wherever he could find space.  Even though it was about 15 minutes away.  I drove him to class and then drove down midday to move him to his next class (15 minute walk from the first) and then drove down again to pick up him.  Even if the school thought that was acceptable to make everyone walk in that, I wasn't willing to do that to him. 

[BusyMom5]

Ours called at 6:06 to cancel all classes, including online.  I don't get that part- I guess so professors don't have to come in?  I wouldn't have him go, its supposed to ice more later today.  Not worth it to go that far.  

[mommyoffive]

I don't remember our college EVER cancelling classes.  Yes probably not fair to people who commute.  We had a small campus so walking while cold to one end to the other was ok.  I was a lot tougher in those days.  -60 or -80 and class would still be on.  We had great staff that cleared the sidewalks constantly.

It is so much easier nowadays to just switch to virtual.

[Carrie12345]

Our CC seems to do a decent job of handling weather.   
Our PS district usually has over the last couple of years, too (not further back than that.) Except last week when busses were actually sliding off roads. 😔

[Faith-manor]

We have two colleges within 90 minutes of us whose student bodies are 70% or so commuter students. They refuse to close no matter how bad it gets outside unless the sheriff of their respective counties actually orders them to close and begins shutting down roads to emergency vehicles only. Every year they have a few students die trying to make it to class because of the zero tolerance policies on attendance. I have heard that some professors don't always want to drive on it, and will hold a zoom lecture from home so students do not have to drive for that class.

[Dmmetler]

For colleges that are heavily commuter, cancel or go virtual. 

 

For residential colleges, I can understand leaving it up to individual professors because the students have a fairly short walk across campus (and probably need someone there to open food service, even if it's just unlocking the campus convience store so they can use their meal swipes to get cup of noodles and protein bars). 

[Soror]

There wasn't much here on the roads. Just a little slickness on the bridges. And checking the forecast before he left we weren't really supposed to get any more until he'd be back home. But when he got closer to campus it got slicker and slicker. Traffic was going 30mph on the 70 mph interstate and they had highway patrol on the bridges making sure people didn't take them too fast. Dh is older and he needs to go whenever he can, especially for his one super hard class. Missing instruction time is very hard on him. As expected, the sidewalks were very icy. There isn't enough daylight for them to get them clear before classes start at 8. 

I went to the same college as dh. I remember he had to drive me over there at least once in his 4WD truck. You shouldn't have to have 4WD to make it to class.

I also remember one professor chewing me out because I missed class on 9/11. I was on my way when I heard about it on the radio. Of course when it first started we didn't know what the heck was going on and I didn't want to be so far from home. I still think what an ahole he was about that.

Now the local CC here cancelled but dh is in a 4 yr college now and they rarely cancel for anything.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Soror

[PinkTulip]

I’ll join you in your rant over this. My son is at a school where it was -24 at 8:00 this morning, with a wind chill of -37. They did not cancel class and he has an in-class quiz in one class that is worth a lot of points and can’t be made up. 

[regentrude]

In the age of the internet, there is no reason to cancel classes. The students should contact their instructor and explain that they cannot make it to campus and request that the instructor stream the class on Zoom.
I had an 8 am class today. I simply ran a Zoom and taught hybrid, like we did at the height of the pandemic. Those who made it in attended in person; those who couldn't were there via Zoom. (And the ones who didn't bother and stayed in bed will need to self-teach from the book and will have a hard time learning the material.)
(ETA: after I got the 4th email from a student that they could not safely make it in, I messaged the entire class with the Zoom link. Before, I sent it out in response to each individual request. So, just because no Zoom link is posted because normally the class is not streamed does not mean students can't contact their prof and ask. They need to be a bit resourceful.)

We had a day last week when it snowed and campus was closed but classes were not canceled; profs either teach on Zoom, provide recorded lectures, or give self-study assignments.

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by regentrude

[bolt.]

I can see why colleges are reluctant to cancel classes. Students pay money (often a *lot* of money) for 12 or 13 class sessions. Reducing that total by one really reduces the amount of value they are getting for their money, and it could compromise their ability to be successful.

If students don't come because it's not safe for them to travel -- that's fine. Nobody is faulting them for it.

But if the college actually chooses not to even offer the paid-for level of instruction due to weather conditions that are not ideal, but fairly surmountable -- I think that college would be letting the students down. It's nearly a 10% reduction in what they are being taught (because some of the classes are intro-and-conclusion type stuff). Students who can't come should be offered recordings, notes, lesson plan, PowerPoints, zoom-in accessibility, etc. Students should be making their own safety calls, and it would be kind of profs to remind them of that particular personal responsibility. But students who could make it shouldn't be deprived of the education they are paying for unless the weather is actually insurmountable for like 90% of the whole student body.

[Spy Car]

Due to the heavy rains here in CA two weeks ago my son's classes at UC Santa Cruz all went "virtual" for a week, as many of the roads in the area were unsafe due to flooding.

Since they had all the infrastructure in place to go online (due to the pandemic experience) it seemed like the smart play.

Cancelling classes is never a great option, but in extreme weather holding classes online is smart.

Bill

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Spy Car

[J-rap]

I don't remember my small college ever cancelling for weather conditions even though we had a lot of blizzards and icy roads.  However, most of the students lived on campus.   Come to think of it, our state's big university probably has thousands of students who live off campus, and I don't recall them ever cancelling.  I'm sure they accommodate students who live off campus though and don't expect them to risk their lives getting there. 

[Faith-manor]

46 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I can see why colleges are reluctant to cancel classes. Students pay money (often a *lot* of money) for 12 or 13 class sessions. Reducing that total by one really reduces the amount of value they are getting for their money, and it could compromise their ability to be successful.

If students don't come because it's not safe for them to travel -- that's fine. Nobody is faulting them for it.

But if the college actually chooses not to even offer the paid-for level of instruction due to weather conditions that are not ideal, but fairly surmountable -- I think that college would be letting the students down. It's nearly a 10% reduction in what they are being taught (because some of the classes are intro-and-conclusion type stuff). Students who can't come should be offered recordings, notes, lesson plan, PowerPoints, zoom-in accessibility, etc. Students should be making their own safety calls, and it would be kind of profs to remind them of that particular personal responsibility. But students who could make it shouldn't be deprived of the education they are paying for unless the weather is actually insurmountable for like 90% of the whole student body.

I agree with this. But our local universities only allow the pivot to virtual if they dictate it. Some professors will do it anyway, on the down low for the students who come a long way and would be risking life and limb to come so far. With a zero tolerance attendance policy, this is a huge safety burden on the students because they cannot afford to fail a class simply because they don't want to end up in a car accident. The money these students and parents pay becomes a deciding factor which is very sad. I really hate these kinda of policies. Let the students and faculty determine the way to handle an absence when road conditions are dangerous. It is especially crazy when 70% of the student body are commuters.

Ds is a guest lecturer at one of these schools. He refused to go in today. He is disabled, and this school does not even bother to clear the sidewalks or handicap parking. He would be trudging a long distance in 6-8" of snow with his cane. That is illegal, but it isn't like the schools care, and apart from an occasional slap on the wrist, nothing comes of lodging a complaint. I never recommend disabled persons attend that college. Ds does not care if they fire him/take him off the guest lecturer list. He has other sources of income, and the pay for this is pathetic. He likes to do it, but it isn't necessary.

[bolt.]

8 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I agree with this. But our local universities only allow the pivot to virtual if they dictate it. Some professors will do it anyway, on the down low for the students who come a long way and would be risking life and limb to come so far. With a zero tolerance attendance policy, this is a huge safety burden on the students because they cannot afford to fail a class simply because they don't want to end up in a car accident. The money these students and parents pay becomes a deciding factor which is very sad. I really hate these kinda of policies. Let the students and faculty determine the way to handle an absence when road conditions are dangerous. It is especially crazy when 70% of the student body are commuters.

Ds is a guest lecturer at one of these schools. He refused to go in today. He is disabled, and this school does not even bother to clear the sidewalks or handicap parking. He would be trudging a long distance in 6-8" of snow with his cane. That is illegal, but it isn't like the schools care, and apart from an occasional slap on the wrist, nothing comes of lodging a complaint. I never recommend disabled persons attend that college. Ds does not care if they fire him/take him off the guest lecturer list. He has other sources of income, and the pay for this is pathetic. He likes to do it, but it isn't necessary.

Yes, I agree with you too. There is a difference between "If it's safe for you, we're still operating the classes you have paid for" and "Come in, no matter the conditions, or you fail the course".

I think everything should be digitally possible to attend (or make up) without impacting the students who are making safe decisions -- beyond the obvious impacts that learning isn't as awesome when delivered in those ways.

Although I don't love leaving it up to the factuality each individually, because then different students are going to get treated fairly/well while other hard-nosed teachers are going to persist with negative impacts and no accommodations -- just based on the luck of which instructor they have that day. I think it should be school-wide, or department-wide, or degree-specific, or some other level of organized response or policy... but I think the policy should be that pivoting to virtual or hybrid delivery is the norm for most situations of dangerous weather, unless unusual circumstances apply.

As an adjunct prof, I do know that if a class gets cancelled in a basic semester-long course -- those students do learn less than they otherwise would have.

A 'snow day' leaves it up to me to decide which things are going to get skipped, treated more lightly, rushed through, or delivered more efficiently but less effectively. If it happens early in the semester, you can kinda spread the missed 10% over the remaining many classes -- but then you have to redo all your lesson plans, all your timings, all your PowerPoints for the whole semester. It's a pain! It's better if you "catch up" (or gloss over) the missed material within the following 1 or 2 classes. Then you can get back onto your lesson plans for the rest of the semester. But if the 'snow day' happens late in the semester, the usual result is that stuff just ends up not being covered. And that is a learning loss that matters to me as an educator.

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, bolt. said:

A 'snow day' leaves it up to me to decide which things are going to get skipped, treated more lightly, rushed through, or delivered more efficiently but less effectively. If it happens early in the semester, you can kinda spread the missed 10% over the remaining many classes -- but then you have to redo all your lesson plans, all your timings, all your PowerPoints for the whole semester. It's a pain! It's better if you "catch up" (or gloss over) the missed material within the following 1 or 2 classes. Then you can get back onto your lesson plans for the rest of the semester.

And if you are teaching multiple sections of the same course that have common exams, it is impossible to adjust the schedule in one affected section and not in the others. It can also be impossible to cram the content into subsequent classes which are already filled with content - there is absolutely no way I can do that in my engineering physics class which has to cover a set amount of content as per ABET requirements. Canceling classes is a major PITA.
(A few years back, before Covid, they closed our school just because it was cold. No snow, no traffic hazards. Just cold. Didn't make the instructors happy)

[Bootsie]

I am glad I am not the person at my university who has to make this call.  The university where I teach closed at noon today (I taught from 8-12).  There are many factors to take into consideration.  Regional accreditation requirements as well as discipline specific requirements for contact hours come into play; this can be a major consideration when classses that meet once a week are cancelled.  What happens with student teachers?  Does it apply to internships?  Does it apply to student nurses?  How takes care of the animals in the lab?  It is so much more than a frehsman history lecture that is being cancelled.  

My university does not allow for any online or virtual instruction when the university closes.  Even if I had a homework assignment that had been assigned weeks before that is supposed to be turned in by midnight this evening--once the campus closed at noon today that deadline is no longer binding.  

Luckily, I have four sections and was able to teach all four sections this morning before campus closed--if I had gotten through a couple and had my sections on different pages, I don't know what I would do, especially given that our first quiz is scheduled for Friday.

[regentrude]

4 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

My university does not allow for any online or virtual instruction when the university closes.  Even if I had a homework assignment that had been assigned weeks before that is supposed to be turned in by midnight this evening--once the campus closed at noon today that deadline is no longer binding.  

That is ridiculous. What is the rationale for not permitting a homework deadline?

[Bootsie]

14 minutes ago, regentrude said:

That is ridiculous. What is the rationale for not permitting a homework deadline?

Two years ago we had unprecdented freezing conditions that left many people without electricity (and heat) for several days.  People were being asked to no use any more electricity than absolutely necessary--so there were some students who could not access online materials, there were some professors who could not update information, and there were those who were lucky enough to have electricity who were being asked NOT to use it.  

Since then we have had situations of flooding and a tornado which impacted some of the student body and employees.  The university decided that it is best to have people focus on taking care of what needs to be taken care of in those situations rather than worrying about deadlines, trying to get to a computer, etc.

But, one of the major issues has been about equity.   We have some students who depend upon library computers and other campus resources to complete their work.  Or, there may be seven family members all trying to share a computer and slow internet at home, and no quiet spot for coursework to be completed when everyone is home from work/school.  There is a strong desire for these students not to be at a disadvantage.  

 

[skimomma]

10 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

 

But, one of the major issues has been about equity.   We have some students who depend upon library computers and other campus resources to complete their work.  

 

We have "weather" today and everything locally is closed....except for the university that dd attends and that is my employer.  Even the other university and CC in town are closed.  Our school, which is MUCH larger almost never closes even though at least half of the students live off campus.  Many of the reasons have already been discussed.  But this is a significant one for why homework due dates are moot during a school closing.  Dd needs to use the campus computer labs for a lot of her work. The software is either not affordable or takes too much power to run on her own laptop.

As an instructor (in my former life), I would always work with any student that did not feel safe traveling to campus and that has also been the case for dd.  We live in an area in which the local schools usually far exceed their allowable snow days each year.  A university just cannot operate that way.  If it closed as often as the public schools, the disruption would be unfathomable.  Just pivoting to Zoom is not at all practical for many classes, especially labs, exam days, and for people who teach in styles that does not automatically translate to Zoom with little notice.  So I expect and appreciate that closing the whole school is not done lightly.  In our case, we generally do not close unless the state has closed the highway or the county has pulled the plows.  Cold weather is never a reason for closure.  Students, staff, and faculty are all advised to use their best judgement and make individual arrangements if needed.

[theelfqueen]

5 minutes ago, skimomma said:

We have "weather" today and everything locally is closed....except for the university that dd 

As an instructor (in my former life), I would always work with any student that did not feel safe traveling to campus and that has also been the case for dd...Students, staff, and faculty are all advised to use their best judgement and make individual arrangements if needed.

Last semester DS was doing FT DE at the CC (ooh acronyms) ... the CC is generous with snow days but hadn't called  on this particular day. DS got in the car drove about 2 blocks, not making it out of our neighborhood ... slid through an intersection, all the way across the street and down about one house. He called me freaking out. I asked if he could drive home or get the car parked and walk? He said he thought he could drive. I reminded him that the worst roads he would encounter would be in our neighborhood (which doesn't get plowed). He felt strongly that driving to school was dangerous. He came home and messaged the instructor that the roads in our area were unsafe and he wouldn't be able to make it - offered to join the class online, attend one od the online sections of the same class, etc. His instructor was super understanding and helpful and told him he has made the right call. 

 

[regentrude]

45 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

But, one of the major issues has been about equity.   We have some students who depend upon library computers and other campus resources to complete their work.  Or, there may be seven family members all trying to share a computer and slow internet at home, and no quiet spot for coursework to be completed when everyone is home from work/school.  There is a strong desire for these students not to be at a disadvantage.  

okay that makes sense.

[athena1277]

After reading this thread, I made sure my college dd was aware that they are supposed to be getting ice tonight to Wednesday.  She said the school had sent reminders to students to look at their “ice plan.”  They have a map of priority walkways where they will clear ice so they can get to class.  If it gets too bad to have classes, there’s a plan to at least make sure they can safely get to the cafeteria.  This school is unusual in that almost all students live on campus all 4 years, so getting there in ice is mostly a problem for faculty and staff.  
 

I hope everyone stays safe in the winter weather.  I personally cannot wait for spring!

[Soror]

1 hour ago, athena1277 said:

After reading this thread, I made sure my college dd was aware that they are supposed to be getting ice tonight to Wednesday.  She said the school had sent reminders to students to look at their “ice plan.”  They have a map of priority walkways where they will clear ice so they can get to class.  If it gets too bad to have classes, there’s a plan to at least make sure they can safely get to the cafeteria.  This school is unusual in that almost all students live on campus all 4 years, so getting there in ice is mostly a problem for faculty and staff.  
 

I hope everyone stays safe in the winter weather.  I personally cannot wait for spring!

That is very smart that there is an ice plan.

2 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Two years ago we had unprecdented freezing conditions that left many people without electricity (and heat) for several days.  People were being asked to no use any more electricity than absolutely necessary--so there were some students who could not access online materials, there were some professors who could not update information, and there were those who were lucky enough to have electricity who were being asked NOT to use it.  

Since then we have had situations of flooding and a tornado which impacted some of the student body and employees.  The university decided that it is best to have people focus on taking care of what needs to be taken care of in those situations rather than worrying about deadlines, trying to get to a computer, etc.

But, one of the major issues has been about equity.   We have some students who depend upon library computers and other campus resources to complete their work.  Or, there may be seven family members all trying to share a computer and slow internet at home, and no quiet spot for coursework to be completed when everyone is home from work/school.  There is a strong desire for these students not to be at a disadvantage.  

 

I get that. We heard a lot about the equity here as well. However, there is no equity for the commuter student that can't get to class either when there is inclement weather. If the lecture isn't made available via electronics they are just SOL. For some reason we could do online school through the pandemic but we can't do it when we get dangerous weather?

They finally cancelled classes around 3 today. I'm trying not to stress and think about dh out driving in this crap. He's almost made it home. It's sleeting hard here.

[Bootsie]

My university announced at about 2:00 this afternoon that it will be closed again tomorrow.  This announcement came along with the reminder that all activities must cease--no homework due dates, no online classes, no work by support staff, etc.  Within 30 minutes of the announcement, I received emails regarding two different faculty meetings that will be moved online tomorrow!

[TechWife]

I think my college only closed once and just for a day or two. At the time  under grand commuters were rare - the school had maybe 100 out of a 3000 person student body. But, that was “back in the day” where you had to live on campus if under 25 unless you were married, owned property or were living with parents within a certain # of miles, IIRC. Things sure are different there now, that’s for sure! 

[Bootsie]

Now my worst case scenario:

I teach four sections of the same class--8, 9, 10 and 11am Mon, Wed, and Fri.  We had class on Monday (about 9:40 am my classroom almost exploded with phones vibrating announcing that the university would close at noon).  Then, classes were cancelled on Wednesday.  The first quiz is planned in the class for Friday.  I told students on Monday that the quiz would still be on, even if we didn't have class on Wed., and would just cover material through Monday's class.  The univ just announced it will open at 10am tomorrow--so two of my sections won't meet but two will.  The quizzes in this class are online--students have 50 minutes for the quiz, but they are open from 8-12, essentially letting students take the quiz in any of the four sections they choose AND they do not have to come to the classroom to take the quiz--they can take it at home, in the library, in the classroom, or out of town at their brother's wedding....  

But, as I posted upthread, my university does not allow anything to be due while the university is closed.  So, I cannot require the 8am or 9a section students to take the quiz tomorrow morning--they do not have to take it during their classtime and then could have a 10am and 11am class and not simply take the quiz once the university is open.  UGG. 

So, I am going to have to come up with another plan, which in order to get the class back on some type of track will mean providing a longer window that the quiz is open than I originally intended to so that no one can complain that they had to take the quiz whiile the univ was closed (and I do know two people near me that have been without electrcity today as power lines have been down due to ice).  I have to figure out what is a "reasonable window" given that we are going into a weekend and students may have to take the quiz outside of their regular classtime (I realize some students stack their weekends full of work hours to keep their week free for classes and studying).  At the same time I know the longer the quiz is open the more the questions leak out, which isn't a good precedent to set with the first quiz of the semester.