Oscars/Will Smith

[Tanaqui]

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My question was did Chris Rock know that she had alopecia? If so, then yes, horribly bad taste and crossing the line.

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The joke was likely scripted and if the academy knew of the diagnosis they should have cut the joke.

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If CR didn't know the joke would be fine.  She looked gorgeous. She is an actress.  It could very well have been for a role.

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If she just had a super short haircut, that would be one thing - but she has alopecia. In that case, I consider hair jokes out of line.  (or for anything medical related.)

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To anyone who didn’t know that Will Smith’s wife has a medical condition, there was nothing wrong with the joke. Demi Moore was the butt of constant jokes for her GI Jane crew cut.

 

What the heck is wrong with all of you? Do you all seriously think it's okay to make a comment about another person's appearance and call it a "joke" just so long as you don't know they have a diagnosis of some sort?

That's not okay, and it's not a joke, and it's not funny. It's just meanness.

[KungFuPanda]

4 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Can someone pls. explain to me how being compared to a TOTALLY SHREDDED Demi Moore in GI Jane is an insult? Make it make sense.

This is my question.  GI Jane was a Bad Ass.  I'd have to actually listen to the joke to get it.

My other question is A Slap?  That was a weird choice.  Did he go all the way up there to punch the guy and downgrade it at the last second? Or did he mean to go with a slap all along?

Then there was him laughing first.  Did he just feel SO horrible that he was punishing Chris for making HIM feel bad? His wife saw him laugh.  He's in trouble anyway.  

I'm also curious because Will Smith has a LOT of money and can afford top notch therapy.  How is "go smack him" anywhere on his list of immediate responses?  I get wanting to do it.  I don't quite get actually following through.

[Kassia]

3 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

This is my question.  GI Jane was a Bad Ass.  I'd have to actually listen to the joke to get it.

My other question is A Slap?  That was a weird choice.  Did he go all the way up there to punch the guy and downgrade it at the last second? Or did he mean to go with a slap all along?

 

And would he have done it if a woman told the joke instead of Chris Rock?  

I also was baffled by it being *just* a slap.  I'm glad he didn't hurt anyone but the whole thing was so strange - the slap, the fact that security never got involved, etc. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Kassia

[livetoread]

2 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I'm also curious because Will Smith has a LOT of money and can afford top notch therapy.  How is "go smack him" anywhere on his list of immediate responses?  I get wanting to do it.  I don't quite get actually following through.

Isn't he Scientology-ish? Pretty sure they both have at least dabbled here and there, so his idea of therapy and my idea of therapy may differ, lol.

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

What the heck is wrong with all of you? Do you all seriously think it's okay to make a comment about another person's appearance and call it a "joke" just so long as you don't know they have a diagnosis of some sort?

That's not okay, and it's not a joke, and it's not funny. It's just meanness.

It’s comedy. There’s always a certain amount of self-deprecation or meanness in comedy. Someone or something or some absurdity is exposed to public censure. Thats comedy. The best jokes center around truisms that endict and convict and expose. It’s part of the genre.

[SKL]

10 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

The only reason any of us is talking about this right now is because Will Smith made it into a big issue. If he had let it go, and perhaps spoken with Chris Rock privately after the ceremony, the joke would have been immediately forgotten by everyone but the Smiths.

Well this is the problem with people letting things go.  Mean people get away with being mean and then they keep doing it.  And the wrong things get normalized.  That's why I think it was appropriate to do something in the moment.

I don't think the slap was a great action either, but I wish there was some way to highlight in the moment "hey, this kind of talk is not OK.  Don't do this."

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well this is the problem with people letting things go.  Mean people get away with being mean and then they keep doing it.  And the wrong things get normalized.  That's why I think it was appropriate to do something in the moment.

I don't think the slap was a great action either, but I wish there was some way to highlight in the moment "hey, this kind of talk is not OK.  Don't do this."

But that’s what comics like Chris Rock do. They poke fun at people. And it happens every year on awards shows, so this is nothing new and is nothing surprising. 

The only surprising thing here is how thin skinned the Smiths appear to be, and how they are seemingly the only people at the Oscars who were unable to take a joke.

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

But that’s what comics like Chris Rock do. They poke fun at people. And it happens every year on awards shows, so this is nothing new and is nothing surprising. 

The only surprising thing here is how thin skinned the Smiths appear to be, and how they are seemingly the only people at the Oscars who were unable to take a joke.

Well I was taught that a roast is supposed to be good-natured, which this wasn't. 

If you can't think of enough acceptable funny things to say during the Oscars, then maybe it's time to step aside and let someone else host.

[SKL]

Also, I've listened to a lot of Chris Rock and I don't agree that he has to be putting named individuals down in order to do his show.  I've seen him talk for hours without naming any individuals.

[Melissa Louise]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/andscape.com/features/will-smiths-slap-at-the-oscars-wasnt-protecting-anyone-certainly-not-his-wife/amp/

[Corraleno]

16 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

This is my question.  GI Jane was a Bad Ass.  I'd have to actually listen to the joke to get it.

He said "Jada, love ya, GI Jane 2, can't wait to see it." That's it, that's the whole thing. Will Smith laughed, then saw Jada wasn't happy, then ran up on stage and slapped him. 

[Vintage81]

https://www.tmz.com/2022/03/28/will-smith-apologizes-chris-rock-slap-at-oscars-jada-pinkett-smith/
 

Note…this apology seems to have been made after the Academy announced a “formal review” of the incident. 

[KSera]

29 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

But the thing is, Jada Smith chose to go public about it, and she apparently made it very clear that she was ok with it, and that she was proud of her new look, so it seems a little disingenuous to act like the victim in this situation, where it seems that Chris Rock didn’t even know about her condition, and his joke was a one-liner in the middle of a monologue that wasn’t even focused on her alone. 

And as I said earlier, if Jada is truly that self-conscious about her hair loss, she certainly has all of the money in the world to have beautiful, comfortable wigs made for her to wear to public events.

I feel like no one is actually reading my posts about this, but just keeps repeating the same thing over and over. It's pretty awful to me to hear someone double down that if someone is self conscious about their hair loss they should have to wear a wig, otherwise making cracks about it is fair game. I have said multiple times, those of you saying she is clearly okay and proud of it because she went public and shared her new look very obviously don't get it. You don't. And that's okay. I'm glad you haven't been there. But you might think to listen to those who have who are saying, no, that's not what that means and people shouldn't have to cover up their medical conditions if they don't want anyone to comment on them. Again, the stupid slap thing was wrong and I'm not commenting on that, but the comments about how she should be glad to be compared to Demi Moore, and that she should wear a wig if she doesn't want comments and that obviously she must be proud of it because she decided to go public show a profound lack of awareness or compassion about what people with this condition go through, and it might be wise to listen rather than continue to say things that come across as extremely insensitive.

[gstharr]

43 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well I was taught that a roast is supposed to be good-natured, which this wasn't. 

If you can't think of enough acceptable funny things to say during the Oscars, then maybe it's time to step aside and let someone else host.

 

44 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well I was taught that a roast is supposed to be good-natured, which this wasn't. 

I guess .most of you are too young to know Dean Martin's Friar"s Club Celebrity Rosst.  You can find them on YouTube. Never saw a punch thrown.  That  humor crossed every line.

.

[Melissa Louise]

44 minutes ago, Vintage81 said:

https://www.tmz.com/2022/03/28/will-smith-apologizes-chris-rock-slap-at-oscars-jada-pinkett-smith/
 

Note…this apology seems to have been made after the Academy announced a “formal review” of the incident. 

Whoever does his PR wrote this, 100%.

[Sneezyone]

33 minutes ago, KSera said:

I feel like no one is actually reading my posts about this, but just keeps repeating the same thing over and over. It's pretty awful to me to hear someone double down that if someone is self conscious about their hair loss they should have to wear a wig, otherwise making cracks about it is fair game. I have said multiple times, those of you saying she is clearly okay and proud of it because she went public and shared her new look very obviously don't get it. You don't. And that's okay. I'm glad you haven't been there. But you might think to listen to those who have who are saying, no, that's not what that means and people shouldn't have to cover up their medical conditions if they don't want anyone to comment on them. Again, the stupid slap thing was wrong and I'm not commenting on that, but the comments about how she should be glad to be compared to Demi Moore, and that she should wear a wig if she doesn't want comments and that obviously she must be proud of it because she decided to go public show a profound lack of awareness or compassion about what people with this condition go through, and it might be wise to listen rather than continue to say things that come across as extremely insensitive.

Your assumption is that all people with this condition feel as your loved one does. Do they? Do they really? My cousins, whom I speak to regularly and are major supports for me, found the whole incident ridiculous. It drew a lot more attention to her than either the of them were comfy with, not because if the throwaway line but because of the toxic masculinity. While Jada may be sensitive, the line wasn’t an insult.

[katilac]

30 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well I was taught that a roast is supposed to be good-natured, which this wasn't. 

Nooooo, lol. The person being roasted is supposed to be good-natured about it; most of the jokes go far, far beyond this comment. Very little is off limits in a comedy roast - which the Oscars aren't, but just so you know, here are a few examples from actual roasts.  

Amy Schumer to Charlie Sheen: "Charlie, you get a bad rap, but you're just like Bruce Willis. You know, you were big in the '80s and now your old slot's being filled with Ashton Kutcher."

Joan Rivers to Tom Arnold: "You were in Betty Ford more times than Gerald was!"

Al Franken to Chevy Chase: "No one laughed harder than Chevy when the town of Chevy Chase, Maryland tried to change its name to Not Funny, Maryland."

Jeffery Ross to Courtney Love: "How is it that Courtney Love looks worse than Kurt Cobain right now?"

And that's with me deleting half a dozen that I decided were a bit too much for the boards. 

 

 

 

[Corraleno]

2 minutes ago, KSera said:

I feel like no one is actually reading my posts about this, but just keeps repeating the same thing over and over. It's pretty awful to me to hear someone double down that if someone is self conscious about their hair loss they should have to wear a wig, otherwise making cracks about it is fair game. I have said multiple times, those of you saying she is clearly okay and proud of it because she went public and shared her new look very obviously don't get it. You don't. And that's okay. I'm glad you haven't been there. But you might think to listen to those who have who are saying, no, that's not what that means and people shouldn't have to cover up their medical conditions if they don't want anyone to comment on them. Again, the stupid slap thing was wrong and I'm not commenting on that, but the comments about how she should be glad to be compared to Demi Moore, and that she should wear a wig if she doesn't want comments and that obviously she must be proud of it because she decided to go public show a profound lack of awareness or compassion about what people with this condition go through, and it might be wise to listen rather than continue to say things that come across as extremely insensitive.

FWIW, I didn't bring up the fact that she was posting photos of herself with positive comments to imply that she couldn't also be sensitive about it — my point was to counter the claims that Chris Rock should obviously have known she was super sensitive about her hair and he purposely mocked her disability. All he's likely to have seen of her in recent social media was that she was proudly rocking a shaved head like her daughter, so why would he be expected to know that she would be so hurt by a one-line ad-libbed joke about GI Jane that her husband would storm the stage and assault him? I can understand BOTH why she was hurt AND why it wouldn't have occurred to him that the joke was hurtful. And the whole thing would have been over in 10 seconds if Will Smith hadn't decided to escalate things in the most bizarre way possible. So now everyone in the world knows that JPS has alopecia and is super sensitive about her hair. I can't imagine how that helps her or makes her feel less self-conscious, since now every time she appears in public people are going to be staring at her head and asking her about the The Slap. 

 

[Catwoman]

49 minutes ago, KSera said:

I feel like no one is actually reading my posts about this, but just keeps repeating the same thing over and over. It's pretty awful to me to hear someone double down that if someone is self conscious about their hair loss they should have to wear a wig, otherwise making cracks about it is fair game. I have said multiple times, those of you saying she is clearly okay and proud of it because she went public and shared her new look very obviously don't get it. You don't. And that's okay. I'm glad you haven't been there. But you might think to listen to those who have who are saying, no, that's not what that means and people shouldn't have to cover up their medical conditions if they don't want anyone to comment on them. Again, the stupid slap thing was wrong and I'm not commenting on that, but the comments about how she should be glad to be compared to Demi Moore, and that she should wear a wig if she doesn't want comments and that obviously she must be proud of it because she decided to go public show a profound lack of awareness or compassion about what people with this condition go through, and it might be wise to listen rather than continue to say things that come across as extremely insensitive.

But no one is saying that Chris Rock should have intentionally made fun of Jada Smith’s medical condition — we are saying that he seems to not have known she had one.

As for the wigs, I suggested that if she was really uncomfortable with her appearance, Jada should have worn a head covering or a wig, because she needs to take responsibility for her own emotional health. She can’t control what other people say about her, but she can control her own actions. If she doesn’t want to be noticed for her hair loss, that is absolutely understandable, but the fact is that people notice a bald woman, even if they don’t make any comments to or about her. If Jada doesn’t want to be noticed, she has choices that include head coverings and wigs. 

In her case, though, she appears to be comfortable with her very short haircut, and I haven’t heard anyone say that she looks anything but great, so I think you may be getting overly offended on her behalf. She has publicly embraced her new appearance, and I think that’s wonderful. But she can’t control what other people say. And really, Chris Rock’s joke was one short little one-liner. If she is going to get so upset over one little joke in the middle of a comedy routine, maybe she is actually uncomfortable with her appearance — but if that’s the case, the only person who can change that is Jada Smith, and she should do whatever it is she needs to do in order to feel more powerful and not like a victim.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Catwoman

[KSera]

14 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Your assumption is that all people with this condition feel as your loved one does. Do they? Do they really? My cousins, whom I speak to regularly and are major supports for me, found the whole incident ridiculous. It drew a lot more attention to her than either the of them were comfy with, not because if the throwaway line but because of the toxic masculinity. While Jada may be sensitive, the line wasn’t an insult.

No, I don't think that at all. But I think that just because some people *don't* feel that way makes everyone with the condition fair game. Clearly from Jada's face, she was not pleased. You err in the direction of kindness. The thing I am pushing back on most in this thread is the idea that she shouldn't care about comments about it because she isn't keeping her head covered up and that she should be happy to be compared to another beautiful bald woman. The slap was ridiculous and wrong and shouldn't have happened and I would be more upset with my husband than with Chris Rock if I were Jada in this position. But none of that negates that just because we all agree Jada looks great bald doesn't mean she doesn't have the right to not want her medical condition joked about.

[Stacia]

 

Quote

roast

verb

gerund or present participle: roasting

 

cook (food, especially meat) by prolonged exposure to heat in an oven or over a fire.

 

Some synonyms for roasting: blazing, blistering, burning, scorching, ...

 

 

BBM.

 

Yeah, roasts aren't nice & sweet. They're meant to have a bit of sting. And, not that the entire Oscar show is supposed to be a roast, but hosts through the years have pretty routinely roasted attending celebrities. If you're a celebrity at the Oscars, being roasted by a joke shouldn't be unexpected.

 

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen (or the Oscars)?

Edited March 29, 2022 by Stacia

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Also, I've listened to a lot of Chris Rock and I don't agree that he has to be putting named individuals down in order to do his show.  I've seen him talk for hours without naming any individuals.

It’s the Academy Awards. The hosts and performers have always poked fun at the famous people in the audience, and they always name names. 

[Catwoman]

4 minutes ago, KSera said:

No, I don't think that at all. But I think that just because some people *don't* feel that way makes everyone with the condition fair game. Clearly from Jada's face, she was not pleased. You err in the direction of kindness. The thing I am pushing back on most in this thread is the idea that she shouldn't care about comments about it because she isn't keeping her head covered up and that she should be happy to be compared to another beautiful bald woman. The slap was ridiculous and wrong and shouldn't have happened and I would be more upset with my husband than with Chris Rock if I were Jada in this position. But none of that negates that just because we all agree Jada looks great bald doesn't mean she doesn't have the right to not want her medical condition joked about.

The problem is, it’s not her decision to make. And again, Chris Rock did not know she had a medical condition. 

I seriously doubt he would have made the joke if he knew that Jada Smith had a medical condition that caused her to lose her hair. He probably assumed it was just a style choice.

[KSera]

12 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

If she doesn’t want to be noticed for her hair loss, that is absolutely understandable, but the fact is that people notice a bald woman, even if they don’t make any comments to or about her. If Jada doesn’t want to be noticed, she has choices that include head coverings and wigs. 

😔 It seems to be a lost cause to try to explain how offensive this is. Leave Jada out of it and consider all the other people with medical hair loss. You think they should all wear wigs or head coverings if they don't want people to make rude comments? Should everyone with a facial difference wear a veil if they don't want people to comment about it?

Edited March 29, 2022 by KSera

[teachermom2834]

Well I don’t care whether CR knew or not. CR can be a total jerk and say WAY worse than what he said even if he did know and for me it still doesn’t justify WS doing what he did. I’m not usually one to hang around posting repetitively on threads and I’m even less likely to care about celebrities but I’m just so gobsmacked that the prevailing narrative on this seems to be that WS was justified, maybe even heroic, and at the very least who could blame him?  
 

 

[Catwoman]

21 minutes ago, KSera said:

😔 It seems to be a lost cause to try to explain how offensive this is. Leave Jada out of it and consider all the other people with medical hair loss. You think they should all wear wigs or head coverings if they don't want people to make rude comments? Should everyone with a facial difference wear a veil if they don't want people to comment about it? Shouldn't adults be able to learn the difference between what is rude and what is kind and stick to the kind?

But no one is saying that people shouldn’t be kind. No one is saying that people should make rude comments. But this wasn’t everyday life. This was a big awards show where it is traditional to roast the celebrities who are in attendance. And the comment was so brief that most people wouldn’t have even thought twice about it had Will Smith not behaved so badly.

What I’m saying is that if I am super-sensitive about a real or perceived physical flaw that I have, and I don’t feel comfortable confronting mean people or I find it too upsetting to hear any comments about my appearance, my best defense may be to camouflage that flaw, not to accentuate it, so that hopefully people won’t notice it or comment about it. It’s not that I should have to do that, but that it may be the best way for me to feel comfortable. I can’t control what other people say, so I have to control my own actions and reactions. And if I’m losing my hair and I’m really upset about it and fearful that people will notice and comment on it or ask me awkward questions, then yes, I should consider wearing wigs or head coverings — not for other people’s benefit, but for my own emotional health and to reduce my own personal stress level. 

Some people are mean. They just are. And as unfortunate and unfair as it is, we are all stuck dealing with those people sometimes, so we have to do whatever is necessary to protect ourselves and our feelings from the mean comments. That doesn’t mean I don’t feel sorry for Jada Smith if Chris Rock’s joke upset her. But if she got that upset over a one-liner, maybe she needs some counseling to help her better cope with her diagnosis. I don’t mean that in a snarky way — I want her to find a way to be able to brush off comments like that,  because I don’t like to see anyone feeling hurt or upset, or like there is something wrong with their appearance. Because there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way Jada looks.

Edited to add: @KSera I am so sorry that I seem to keep offending you. It really isn’t my intention, and I feel like I’m phrasing everything the wrong way. 😞 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Catwoman
Forgot something!

[Ausmumof3]

19 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

But no one is saying that people shouldn’t be kind. No one is saying that people should make rude comments. But this wasn’t everyday life. This was a big awards show where it is traditional to roast the celebrities who are in attendance. And the comment was so brief that most people wouldn’t have even thought twice about it had Will Smith not behaved so badly.

What I’m saying is that if I am super-sensitive about a real or perceived physical flaw that I have, and I don’t feel comfortable confronting mean people or I find it too upsetting to hear any comments about my appearance, my best defense may be to camouflage that flaw, not to accentuate it, so that hopefully people won’t notice it or comment about it. It’s not that I should have to do that, but that it may be the best way for me to feel comfortable. I can’t control what other people say, so I have to control my own actions and reactions. And if I’m losing my hair and I’m really upset about it and fearful that people will notice and comment on it or ask me awkward questions, then yes, I should consider wearing wigs or head coverings — not for other people’s benefit, but for my own emotional health and to reduce my own personal stress level. 

Some people are mean. They just are. And as unfortunate and unfair as it is, we are all stuck dealing with those people sometimes, so we have to do whatever is necessary to protect ourselves and our feelings from the mean comments. That doesn’t mean I don’t feel sorry for Jada Smith if Chris Rock’s joke upset her. But if she got that upset over a one-liner, maybe she needs some counseling to help her better cope with her diagnosis. I don’t mean that in a snarky way — I want her to find a way to be able to brush off comments like that,  because I don’t like to see anyone feeling hurt or upset, or like there is something wrong with their appearance. Because there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way Jada looks.

Edited to add: @KSera I am so sorry that I seem to keep offending you. It really isn’t my intention, and I feel like I’m phrasing everything the wrong way. 😞 

I don’t think what Will Smith did was right but I really don’t think not covering up a physical condition makes it fair game. It doesn’t seem like you to argue that either because you are usually a very kind person. 
 

Also Jada is not the person who did something wrong here! She looked upset about the comment is all. She didn’t slap someone in the face. Presumably she didn’t expect to have her hair commented on or maybe she felt she could handle it and in the moment the comment hit her in a certain way.

It really seems like a case of two wrongs don’t make a right to me.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I don’t think what Will Smith did was right but I really don’t think not covering up a physical condition makes it fair game. It doesn’t seem like you to argue that either because you are usually a very kind person. 
 

Also Jada is not the person who did something wrong here! She looked upset about the comment is all. She didn’t slap someone in the face. Presumably she didn’t expect to have her hair commented on or maybe she felt she could handle it and in the moment the comment hit her in a certain way.

It really seems like a case of two wrongs don’t make a right to me.

But again, Chris Rock didn’t know it was a physical condition. He probably assumed, as I (and others here) did, that her very short hair was a style choice, so he made a GI Jane joke because of her hair and her very chiseled physique. Obviously, if he knew that she had a medical condition and still went out of his way to intentionally insult her, I would be disgusted and livid on her behalf. But apparently he really didn’t know, and he joked about her, just as he joked about other celebrities.

I agree that she did absolutely nothing wrong. Her husband was an idiot, but she was perfectly composed. I’m also not entirely convinced that she was particularly upset — surprised, yes —  but a few people seem to be assuming she was crushed by the joke, and I seriously doubt that. She’s a tough cookie and if she was very upset, I think she would have made it very clear. She doesn’t seem like the kind of woman who needs her husband to fight her battles for her. She has always seemed like the stronger person in that relationship.

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

But again, Chris Rock didn’t know it was a physical condition. He probably assumed, as I (and others here) did, that her very short hair was a style choice, so he made a GI Jane joke because of her hair and her very chiseled physique. Obviously, if he knew that she had a medical condition and still went out of his way to intentionally insult her, I would be disgusted and livid on her behalf. But apparently he really didn’t know, and he joked about her, just as he joked about other celebrities.

I agree that she did absolutely nothing wrong. Her husband was an idiot, but she was perfectly composed. I’m also not entirely convinced that she was particularly upset — surprised, yes —  but a few people seem to be assuming she was crushed by the joke, and I seriously doubt that. She’s a tough cookie and if she was very upset, I think she would have made it very clear. She doesn’t seem like the kind of woman who needs her husband to fight her battles for her. She has always seemed like the stronger person in that relationship.

Did you see the video of her face? 
 

I hadn’t heard that he didn’t know. Everyone has said it was common knowledge and unlikely he wouldn’t have known. If he didn’t know it was a dumb joke but not over the line in the same way. Maybe he needs to stick to the approved script next time.

Yes, Will seems like he’s in quite an unstable place right now. 

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Did you see the video of her face? 
 

I hadn’t heard that he didn’t know. Everyone has said it was common knowledge and unlikely he wouldn’t have known. If he didn’t know it was a dumb joke but not over the line in the same way. Maybe he needs to stick to the approved script next time.

Yes, Will seems like he’s in quite an unstable place right now. 

I’m making the assumption that he was telling the truth when he said he didn’t know. If he did know, that changes everything in my mind. 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

No, I don't think that at all. But I think that just because some people *don't* feel that way makes everyone with the condition fair game. Clearly from Jada's face, she was not pleased. You err in the direction of kindness. The thing I am pushing back on most in this thread is the idea that she shouldn't care about comments about it because she isn't keeping her head covered up and that she should be happy to be compared to another beautiful bald woman. The slap was ridiculous and wrong and shouldn't have happened and I would be more upset with my husband than with Chris Rock if I were Jada in this position. But none of that negates that just because we all agree Jada looks great bald doesn't mean she doesn't have the right to not want her medical condition joked about.

I don’t think she needs to cover her head. My cousin doesn’t. We simply disagree that her condition was joked about in a negative way. She’s a VERY public person, having openly discussed both her ‘entanglement’ and medical condition (the latter I didn’t see because the infidelity discussion was enough foolishness for me to see they’re well and truly lost) and people will have jokes. If that’s not something someone can handle, maybe being super public isn’t the best choice.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Amy in NH]

2 hours ago, KSera said:

I feel like no one is actually reading my posts about this, but just keeps repeating the same thing over and over. It's pretty awful to me to hear someone double down that if someone is self conscious about their hair loss they should have to wear a wig, otherwise making cracks about it is fair game. I have said multiple times, those of you saying she is clearly okay and proud of it because she went public and shared her new look very obviously don't get it. You don't. And that's okay. I'm glad you haven't been there. But you might think to listen to those who have who are saying, no, that's not what that means and people shouldn't have to cover up their medical conditions if they don't want anyone to comment on them. Again, the stupid slap thing was wrong and I'm not commenting on that, but the comments about how she should be glad to be compared to Demi Moore, and that she should wear a wig if she doesn't want comments and that obviously she must be proud of it because she decided to go public show a profound lack of awareness or compassion about what people with this condition go through, and it might be wise to listen rather than continue to say things that come across as extremely insensitive.

Some people are unwilling to confront their enculturated able-ist biases.

[Melissa Louise]

Alopecia is not a disability. Yes, I've known women with the condition. It's been a challenge for them to deal with it emotionally. It still isn't a disability. 

 

 

[KSera]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Alopecia is not a disability. Yes, I've known women with the condition. It's been a challenge for them to deal with it emotionally. It still isn't a disability. 

 

 

I don’t think anyone called it a disability? I’m pretty sure I’ve only called it a medical condition. 

[Melissa Louise]

2 minutes ago, KSera said:

I don’t think anyone called it a disability? I’m pretty sure I’ve only called it a medical condition. 

Ableism refers to biases around disability. 

The poster above refers to 'ableist biases.' 

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Melissa Louise

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

I don’t think anyone called it a disability? I’m pretty sure I’ve only called it a medical condition. 

It probably has something to do with the ableism tag flying freely in the thread. Alopecia, while difficult, doesn’t affect any major life function.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Sneezyone

[SKL]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

The problem is, it’s not her decision to make. And again, Chris Rock did not know she had a medical condition. 

I seriously doubt he would have made the joke if he knew that Jada Smith had a medical condition that caused her to lose her hair. He probably assumed it was just a style choice.

The wording of CR's apology implies he did know.

Edited March 29, 2022 by SKL

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Amy in NH said:

Some people are unwilling to confront their enculturated able-ist biases.

Honest question— what should Jada Smith do, if she knows she will be upset when someone makes an unkind comment about her lack of hair? How should she handle it? 

She can’t stop people from saying whatever they want to say, so what would you suggest that she do in order to feel more comfortable and confident? Apparently my suggestions are ableist, so I’m honestly wondering how you and @KSera would advise her to handle it. 

Please don’t think I’m being snarky— I genuinely want to know.

 

[Amy in NH]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It probably has something to do with the ableism tag flying freely in the thread. Alopecia, while difficult, doesn’t affect any major life function.

Aside from the ability to grow hair and wear it in the way others do, and the resulting psychosocial consequences such as depression and anxiety.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

CR's apology implies he did know.

What makes you believe that? All of the reports I read have said he didn’t know.

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Honest question— what should Jada Smith do, if she knows she will be upset when someone makes an unkind comment about her lack of hair? How should she handle it? 

She can’t stop people from saying whatever they want to say, so what would you suggest that she do in order to feel more comfortable and confident? Apparently my suggestions are ableist, so I’m honestly wondering how you and @KSera would advise her to handle it. 

Please don’t think I’m being snarky— I genuinely want to know.

 

What should an obese person do if she thinks she won't enjoy fat jokes about her at the Oscars?

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

What should an obese person do if she thinks she won't enjoy fat jokes about her at the Oscars?

I don’t know. You seem to have all the answers. You tell me. 

[Ausmumof3]

7 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Honest question— what should Jada Smith do, if she knows she will be upset when someone makes an unkind comment about her lack of hair? How should she handle it? 

She can’t stop people from saying whatever they want to say, so what would you suggest that she do in order to feel more comfortable and confident? Apparently my suggestions are ableist, so I’m honestly wondering how you and @KSera would advise her to handle it. 

Please don’t think I’m being snarky— I genuinely want to know.

 

I think what she’s doing is the best thing she can do. Find a style that looks as good as possible and own it. 

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, Amy in NH said:

Aside from the ability to grow hair and wear it in the way others do, and the resulting psychosocial consequences such as depression and anxiety.

Pert near half the black women in America don’t/can’t grow and wear their hair the way others do. It’s a challenge, to be sure. Not a disability.

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, SKL said:

What should an obese person do if she thinks she won't enjoy fat jokes about her at the Oscars?

Pass the word from agent to producer to host. They all have people.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Sneezyone

[SKL]

Just now, Catwoman said:

What makes you believe that? All of the reports I read have said he didn’t know.

Apparently the apology I saw was fake news.  It is amazing what people will lie about these days.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think what she’s doing is the best thing she can do. Find a style that looks as good as possible and own it. 

I think she looks amazing!

But if she was hurt by Chris Rock’s joke, maybe she’s not really “owning” that look. If she was, there would have been no reason for Will Smith to attack Chris Rock.

That’s why I’m asking what else she can do, because there are always going to be mean people out there, and a hairless woman is usually going to be noticed, so if my suggestion that she cover her head or wear a wig to avoid unwanted attention is a terrible and ableist idea, what should she do? 

I really want to know. I would like to be more informed about this if I’m really being offensive.

[Catwoman]

4 minutes ago, SKL said:

Apparently the apology I saw was fake news.  It is amazing what people will lie about these days.

Thanks — I hadn’t seen an apology, but I thought you might have seen something that I had missed. 

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Pass the word from agent to producer to host. They all have people.

This brings up another thing I wanted to say.  In a case like this, why wouldn't the speaker check first with the person having the medical issue - "hey Jada, are you OK with me making a little joke about ___?"  Unless he actually doesn't care or wants to hurt the person?

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

This brings up another thing I wanted to say.  In a case like this, why wouldn't the speaker check first with the person having the medical issue - "hey Jada, are you OK with me making a little joke about ___?"  Unless he actually doesn't care or wants to hurt the person?

Because there are HUNDREDS of industry professionals in the room getting awards who know toasty jokes are on the menu. It’s their job. This is what they do as entertainers. Grin, glad-hand, give sappy remarks. They’re not all friends. If someone has a specific issue, much like a dietary restriction, *they* inform the relevant planners.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Sneezyone