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Have you ever felt "cherished?"


Jenny in Florida
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1 minute ago, hjffkj said:

Haha, that reminded me of an old neighbor we had. She was a single mom of 2 teenagers and a 6 year old at the time. She came over my house and asked if she was home. I let her know he wasn't and asked if there was a problem I could help her with. She said there was just a huge spider in her living room that she was wondering if he'd kill for her. I was dumbfounded but told her I'd do it and walked into her room to find both teenagers sitting on the couch staring at it. I scooped it up and took it outside.

I couldn't believe anyone would need a man to get rid of a spider for them and was incredulous when another woman was so easily capable of it. And to top it off two teenagers couldn't it either.

Spiders, mice, overflowing toilets I've taken care of them all and so many of my friends have not.  Though I admit when a huge family of mice all froze in our cellar while I was pregnant and had a one year old I made DH take care of cleaning that.  

 

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6 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Do you know what makes dh and I look starry eyed at each other and say "I am so glad that I married you?"  When we have a in depth (often theological) discussion where we have a meeting of the minds (and souls).  I have a friend who married someone who does the little notes and the gifts and the running to the  open the door etc. etc. but it's all "noise" to her because they don't really have a meeting of the minds on the things which she sees as highest priority.  (Not saying that many people can't have both.) 

I had this rosy picture of family life (along with the homeschool life with everyone gathered around the rocking chair hanging on my every word as I read aloud).  But it didn't take into account real life people with their own likes and dislikes and personalities.  For me, this sort of thing fits into that category.  My kids could bake but only did it as a business.  My dh couldn't bake to save his life.  So we go for a dessert date at Whole Foods for my birthday.  It gives me a treat that meets all of my food sensitivities etc. and is still special. 

This is certainly another way in which I feel loved, valued, and respected (ie cherished.) None of the other stuff would mean much if dh and I weren't compatible on a deeper level.

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1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Do you know what makes dh and I look starry eyed at each other and say "I am so glad that I married you?"  When we have a in depth (often theological) discussion where we have a meeting of the minds (and souls).  I have a friend who married someone who does the little notes and the gifts and the running to the  open the door etc. etc. but it's all "noise" to her because they don't really have a meeting of the minds on the things which she sees as highest priority.  (Not saying that many people can't have both.) 

I had this rosy picture of family life (along with the homeschool life with everyone gathered around the rocking chair hanging on my every word as I read aloud).  But it didn't take into account real life people with their own likes and dislikes and personalities.  For me, this sort of thing fits into that category.  My kids could bake but only did it as a business.  My dh couldn't bake to save his life.  So we go for a dessert date at Whole Foods for my birthday.  It gives me a treat that meets all of my food sensitivities etc. and is still special. 

I would love to have those kinds of discussions, too. However, given my husband's increasing challenges with anxiety over the last several years (and, yes, he is being treated -- this is the improved version), lengthy, focused conversations just aren't a thing. I don't dare approach those topics with my daughter, because if I say something to offend her, it blows up in my face. My son and I do have those conversations now and then, although much less often now that he's grown up and moved out and no longer dependent on me to drive him to classes and activities. 

My husband would happily buy me dessert, too. But having someone spend money on me isn't meaningful for me. I grew up in a household in which "things" were everywhere and attention was in short supply.  Also, it's not about the food, but about the effort of remembering and doing what makes me feel loved.

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1 minute ago, rebcoola said:

Spiders, mice, overflowing toilets I've taken care of them all and so many of my friends have not.  Though I admit when a huge family of mice all froze in our cellar while I was pregnant and had a one year old I made DH take care of cleaning that.  

 

Dh does take care of the mice in this house. But that isn't because I wouldn't, I just decided I'd deal with a lot of things but if I didn't have to mice isn't one of those things. Spiders, snakes, birds in the house, toilets, fixing appliances, installing flooring,  mowing the lawn, and handling car maintenance are all things I have done many times in our marriage.

Bats are the only other think I don't do. I could if I needed to but don't if dh is home

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I've been thinking about this thread a lot. Sometimes I feel cherished, sometimes I don't. But as I'm thinking through what makes me feel cherished, I don't always know the answer to that. So I think that maybe it would be hard for dh to know at times. I don't like mushy or some romantic gestures--it feels uncomfortable to me. I think it's that I do appreciate being thought of. Like @Jean in Newcastle, having a good, deep conversation makes me feel cherished. I like how @Baseballandhockey described ways we interpret others' actions. Sometimes it is things like filling the gas tank or washing the dishes. Sometimes it is things like getting me something as a gift (Amazon card) that isn't what he would prefer to choose (clothes or jewelry), but he does it because he knows that is what I would prefer. But I think I will talk about this with dh tonight--what makes him feel cherished? (I do know one thing he will say 🫖😉.) Because I'm pretty sure that he is better about this than I am. It should be interesting to hear what he says.

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4 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

 

My husband would happily buy me dessert, too. But having someone spend money on me isn't meaningful for me. I grew up in a household in which "things" were everywhere and attention was in short supply.  Also, it's not about the food, but about the effort of remembering and doing what makes me feel loved.

I can completely relate to this. Birthdays have been a sore spot many years in our marriage. They are literally one of the only times I haven't felt valued by dh. We have a tradition that the birthday person gets the dinner and dessert they want with the expectation that they wont have to do the work to get or make it. Dh has a tendency to ask what I want the night before but by then there isn't actually enough time for him to plan for what I want so I am usually left feeling unimportant.  

I know it is unintentional but it doesn't make it hurt less. 

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I actually gave up on celebrating my birthday years ago. I started having trouble with it when I was a teenager and went in and out of phases when I tolerated and sometimes appreciated having it acknowledged in a quiet way. About a decade ago, I explicitly told my family that, while I appreciate having my loved ones wish me a happy day, my preference is not to have anything do anything more than that. (I've asked the HR department at work to leave my name off the list of monthly birthdays, too.) I dislike being the center of attention and find it exhausting to have to be cheerful and grateful on demand.

So, the cake thing is no longer a point of contention. I was just using it as an example of how I often feel like my own loving actions are not reciprocated.

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1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Do you know what makes dh and I look starry eyed at each other and say "I am so glad that I married you?"  When we have a in depth (often theological) discussion where we have a meeting of the minds (and souls). 

This.  I meant to post something similar earlier.  But after being married to someone with completely different fundamental beliefs and values, I REALLY appreciate how much dh and I share in those areas.  

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37 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

Texted my dh the question, "What makes you feel cherished?" 🤣 He replied, "What? That question was unexpected. I'll have to think about it." Sounds like we might have some good conversation about that this evening.😊 

I am going to do that too.  Although I am quite sure I know the answer.  lol

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1 hour ago, Jaybee said:

Texted my dh the question, "What makes you feel cherished?" 🤣 He replied, "What? That question was unexpected. I'll have to think about it." Sounds like we might have some good conversation about that this evening.😊 

Dh and talked about this last night. He agreed with me that the word cherished isn't what we would ever use to describe our feelings loved, respected, and valued but when asked that is what cherished means to us.

It was interesting to figure out that we have a pretty good idea of each other's love languages even though we've never discussed it before. Although, he put words of affirmation too high on my list than I did. 

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Cherish means to care for and protect. 

The more paternalistic connotations come from 'protect'.

I don't think people should automatically feel bad that some other people don't experience the protection aspect.

Were someone to offer me care linked with protection, I'd turn then down. Reluctantly, but definitely.

I tend to cherish things more than people. I cherish a piece of family jewellery, for example. I also cherish particular memories. 

I care for lots of people but I don't feel called to offer protective cherishment. 

 

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1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Cherish means to care for and protect. 

Where are you getting that definition?  It's not one I've ever heard, and it's not coming up in the 3 online dictionaries I use most frequently.  

I think of it the way @DreamerGirldoes, as part of many traditional Protestant wedding vows, and it's used in both directions.  

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I met DH when I was 18 and in college.  He spent lots of time with me and my roommate when I was in college.  Years later, my roommate commented on how devoted DH always was to me from the very beginning.  I don't know if that's much different than cherished but I feel both from DH - that he cherishes me and that he's devoted to me.  

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I don’t ever *feel* cherished, but I know I am cherished. I know my husband loves me dearly, but he doesn’t speak my love language well at all.  My love language isn’t acts of service, so that particular example of cherished (he does things for me) doesn’t resonate with me.

My love language is an equal mix of words of affirmation and quality time. So, if he spent time with me and sweet talked me, boy oh boy would I feel cherished! Oh, I would just melt!! But it’s just not his strength. He just can’t really do it. He doesn’t have the words and when he tries, they aren’t convincing at all! It’s just not in him to sweet talk. 

And while I love him dearly, I also don’t think he feels cherished, because his love language is physical touch. I have sometimes wondered if I have a bit of my dad’s autism because I dislike being touched so very much. I don’t like shaking people’s hands and I never hug friends when I see them. Sometimes I accidentally physically recoil when someone touches me, before I can catch myself.  I have to try to remember to do things like hold my husband’s hand or pat him on the shoulder when I walk by, or whatever, because I could easily go a year without touching him and not even think about it. 

What a pair we are! So, I *know* I’m cherished, but I don’t *feel* it. I hope my husband knows I cherish him, but I do a terrible job of speaking his love language, so he most likely doesn’t feel it. (This is a good reminder for me to work on that.)

Edited by Garga
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Ordinary spiders are fine, but I do not do huntsman spiders at all.  If I see one I am afraid I do scream. They run so fast and drop onto you if you are under them.  They do not make webs but rather run around and catch their prey. They are often found inside on the ceiling on hot evenings before a weather change. I have found them in my bed before. I check the ceiling every single night before going to bed. Dh always removes them if he is around. I have asked complete strangers multiple times to remove them from my car. 

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1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

Cherish means to care for and protect. 

Where are you getting this definition from ? 

I can get care for, but protect ?

In the traditional Anglican vows for the man, it is 'love, cherish and protect' in my church and for the woman it is 'love, cherish and obey/submit'.

So the direct correlation to protect is submit/obey. Cherish is a whole different word and both say that. So where is the the protect coming from ? 

DH and I got married before Prince William and Kate, but the whole literally battle in the church about the word obey and submit has been raging way before us. It directly relates to both husband and wife being considered equals in a marriage and the woman not saying submit/obey. Cherish has always been used for equality. Honor has been rejected as resembling protect. 

This is the wedding vows of Prince William and Kate. It happened before the Queen who is the head of the Anglican Church and they both say 'love and cherish'. Vows start at 3:00.

This was not always so. The Queen famously said obey during her wedding vows. She was not the head of the Anglican Church at the time of her wedding, her father was. Both Prince Philip and her say cherish. She alone says obey. Vows start around 13:00

Diana famously did not say obey.

Cherish does not mean protect, it means care for in the context of the Anglican wedding vows and both man and woman say it. 

It may mean whatever to a person, in the context of the church where people have literally battled for years for a woman to be considered equals in marriage especially in gendered societies, cherish does not mean protect. It means care for, value each other and especially in the context of the church considered an equal to the husband. Protect is used, obey is used to mean a husband is above a wife in marriage, a hierarchy. But cherish means value each other and respect. Sorry I have to heavily disagree on this because this represents a change in the way the church considers marriage to me.

Edited by DreamerGirl
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Cambridge English Dictionary. 

Man, there is zero need to get precious about it. If you like being cherished and you are, awesome! If you'd like it but you aren't, I'm sorry and hope you are in the future. If it's all a bit meaningless to you, that's fine too. 

I don't know why you're talking about the Church and Diana etc. What's that got to do with anything?!

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24 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Cambridge English Dictionary. 

Man, there is zero need to get precious about it. If you like being cherished and you are, awesome! If you'd like it but you aren't, I'm sorry and hope you are in the future. If it's all a bit meaningless to you, that's fine too. 

I don't know why you're talking about the Church and Diana etc. What's that got to do with anything?!

Because words like cherish, obey, protect mean something in the context of religious vows in a marriage conducted in a church and cannot be just dismissed as being precious about it. It sets the tone of what is the role of women in church especially in a gendered society like my country of origin. 

When DH and I got married, it was a battle to take out the obey and it was said that if it was good enough for the Queen it was good enough for me. I had to research wedding vows to find out who said what in that family and that is why I know all that extra info.

I am on a journey outside the church right now, but my religion and my church has been a deeply defining part of me for most of my life and the words of my wedding vows would set the tone of my marriage. It meant I said those vows in front of God. So for me, those were not just words and their meanings meant a lot and I researched the heck out of them.

It may not mean anything to many others, but for me those words reflected who I was as a woman, what I envisioned my relationship with my husband and even had a role in choosing a spouse who would honor that. 

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18 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Ok.  

Maybe take it up with Cambridge dictionary? 

Well, apparently even dictionaries cannot agree on that word.

18 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I'm profoundly disinterested in other people's wedding vows

Me too. Unfortunately when I got married and in my country of origin since it is a gendered society I could not and many still cannot because of family pressure or church pressure and look deeply at the meanings. In discussions like these, it helps to have that perspective. 

18 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Please disregard somehow got here and cannot delete. 

2 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

I don't think people should automatically feel bad that some other people don't experience the protection aspect.

 

I thought we were all discussing on what it meant to each of us. I  certainly did not feel bad, but this was certainly generalizing and this felt a bit condescending,

56 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Man, there is zero need to get precious about it

This felt extremely condescending in the context of taking the meaning of words in a vow.

56 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

If you like being cherished and you are, awesome! If you'd like it but you aren't, I'm sorry and hope you are in the future. If it's all a bit meaningless to you, that's fine too. 

 

Agreed 10000%. Extra zeros for extra agreement, 

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5 minutes ago, DreamerGirl said:

Well, apparently even dictionaries cannot agree on that word.

Me too. Unfortunately when I got married and in my country of origin since it is a gendered society I could not and many still cannot because of family pressure or church pressure and look deeply at the meanings. In discussions like these, it helps to have that perspective. 

I thought we were all discussing on what it meant to each of us. I  certainly did not feel bad, but this was certainly generalizing and this felt a bit condescending,

This felt extremely condescending in the context of taking the meaning of words in a vow.

Agreed 10000%. Extra zeros for extra agreement, 

It's also awfully condescending when ppl express feeling badly for others who don't feel 'cherished'. Some of us have not great associations with that word. 

Anyway, it's making me get itchy and allergic to keep typing 'cherish', so I'm going to go and try to forget this thread, lol. 

(I would literally run a mile from a bloke who said he wanted to cherish me!)

 

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18 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

It's also awfully condescending when ppl express feeling badly for others who don't feel 'cherished'. Some of us have not great associations with that word. 

Anyway, it's making me get itchy and allergic to keep typing 'cherish', so I'm going to go and try to forget this thread, lol. 

I think it is very evident how this one word is triggering for a lot of people. Mine is obey/submit. Cherish was something wonderful compared that that. 😄

18 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

(I would literally run a mile from a bloke who said he wanted to cherish me!)

 

For me, that was obey.

One quick fire way of eliminating potential spouses who did not meet my basic criteria of how I wanted me to be treated in a marriage was 'how do you feel if I do not say obey in vows".

 It sounds funny now but I feel sad because so many of us seem to associate words with how we want to be treated in a marriage or in a relationship especially with a husband or a SO. 

This thread has been incredibly eye opening. Have a good one !

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@Gargayours resonated with me too. I have zero doubt that DH loves me. He’s my person. I feel totally confident in our relationship and I think we both agree we have a great one. 
He does everything listed here for me- literally everything- fill my gas tank, clean the house, kill any and all bugs and rodents, laundry if it needs done, pick me up dinner if he’s out. He asks me almost every morning- what can I help You with today. He also does almost all those things for a lot of other people 😂 he’s just a good person with lots of extra energy whose love language is acts of service and is happiest if he’s productive and efficient with his time. 
Mine is words of affirmation. Hmmm, he’s honest to a fault and not one for romantic talk. He does say nice things to me, he writes nice but brief cards for my birthday, but that is definitely not his thing. Somehow I still know he loves me. I’m not sure I would have ever said cherished though. Interesting conversation. 

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10 minutes ago, DreamerGirl said:

I think it is very evident how this one word is triggering for a lot of people. Mine is obey/submit. Cherish was something wonderful compared that that. 😄

For me, that was obey.

One quick fire way of eliminating potential spouses who did not meet my basic criteria of how I wanted me to be treated in a marriage was 'how do you feel if I do not say obey in vows".

 It sounds funny now but I feel sad because so many of us seem to associate words with how we want to be treated in a marriage or in a relationship especially with a husband or a SO. 

This thread has been incredibly eye opening. Have a good one !

I also just don't like the 'ch', :r' and sh' sounds together like that, so don't mind me! 

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5 hours ago, Jaybee said:

Texted my dh the question, "What makes you feel cherished?" 🤣 He replied, "What? That question was unexpected. I'll have to think about it." Sounds like we might have some good conversation about that this evening.😊 

 

5 hours ago, Scarlett said:

This.  I meant to post something similar earlier.  But after being married to someone with completely different fundamental beliefs and values, I REALLY appreciate how much dh and I share in those areas.  

I was wrong. I asked him if he feels cherished by me,  he immediately answered yes.  I asked him what specifically makes him feel that way and he said, ‘your touch and when you smile at me.’   💕💕💕😍😍

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Neither of us have really resonated with the love languages tool. We can see that it is helpful for some, but it just never seemed to fit us. Basically, we want to be respected and valued. We don't want to be dismissed. And being respected and valued can be covered in a variety of ways. I want to be thought of. I want to be treated with kindness. It's been a thought-provoking thread to follow, and I'm still pondering on it.

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For the last 22 years, every time I have thrown up, my husband has cleaned up anything that needed to be cleaned up.  And I swear while I do aim for the bowl, I don’t have the best record.  There have been some real disgusting messes.  That stuff splatters and seems to get all the places.  I’ve never asked him to do this.  He always makes sure I get something to drink, gets me settled in to bed and then grabs the disinfectant. 

I threw up every.single.day that I was pregnant with our younger son, often several times a day.  

That man loves me.  

I do feel cherished, a lot of ways, and (I promise) not just when I am sick.  

I can think of lots of things that make me feel cherished and protected.  I can also think of many ways I cherish him.  For me it feels like knowing that someone else doesn’t think twice when he sees a way that he can make my day either easier or nicer.    

Edited by LucyStoner
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1 hour ago, wintermom said:

This meme just seemed to explemplify the honest and practical way my dh and I "cherish" each other now after 25 years. 

May be an image of text that says 'Valentine's Day (Newlyweds) Mushy cards, roses, chocolates, lingerie, dinner reservations at a nice restaurant. Might Be Funny Valentine's Day (Married 20 years) "You beliene they're charging $7.99 for a card?" "Eight bucks for a CARD? Ridiculous!" "I won't get you a card if you don't get me a card." "Deal. don't even want a card. want an air fryer." I Might Be Funny'

Dh and I must have been married in another life then because my newlywed years were more like the married 20 years behavior 😂

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2 hours ago, wintermom said:

This meme just seemed to explemplify the honest and practical way my dh and I "cherish" each other now after 25 years. 

May be an image of text that says 'Valentine's Day (Newlyweds) Mushy cards, roses, chocolates, lingerie, dinner reservations at a nice restaurant. Might Be Funny Valentine's Day (Married 20 years) "You beliene they're charging $7.99 for a card?" "Eight bucks for a CARD? Ridiculous!" "I won't get you a card if you don't get me a card." "Deal. don't even want a card. want an air fryer." I Might Be Funny'

I have friends who, on special occasions like Valentine's Day or an anniversary, go to the card section and read the cards together, lol. It's a fun tradition for them, and they are a hoot anyway, so I can imagine it being a great date.

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7 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

I have friends who, on special occasions like Valentine's Day or an anniversary, go to the card section and read the cards together, lol. It's a fun tradition for them, and they are a hoot anyway, so I can imagine it being a great date.

I thought someone here did that.  Maybe @hjffkj?  Sorry if I got that wrong.  

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2 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I thought someone here did that.  Maybe @hjffkj?  Sorry if I got that wrong.  

Nope, I actually really hate cards. Like with a fiery passion hate. To me, a store bought card is a complete waste of money, not personal, and I just have never understood the appeal. One way I knew dh was a keeper was he took me seriously when I first told him I didn't like cards. He didn't decide that on Valentine's Day he knew better than me and got me a card anyway, like every other guy I'd ever dated. 

Dh has made me cards before, doesn't do it every year but they are always exactly targeted to my humor and love. Like the year he made me a construction paper card that said 'Will you bee mine' and created a construction paper bee on it. A reference to an often quoted Simpson's scene in our relationship. Or the year he made me a card with a bunch of stupid puns revolving around coffee. Actually those are the only two cards he's ever given me.

I gave him a blank card once and on the outside wrote, 'sorry you're feeling so..' a Brian Regan joke.

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Actually, I may have once mentioned that we have done that when picking cards for other people, which only happens when we forget a gift for someone and have to shove money in a card 5 minutes before we're gonna see them. But it is more of us just pulling random cards making fun of them. It makes an unenjoyable task fun

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49 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

Nope, I actually really hate cards. Like with a fiery passion hate.

LOL, I absolutely had the wrong person - sorry!  

We don't like cards either.  We make our own when we feel like it or we do signs or little notes or whatever.  

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3 hours ago, hjffkj said:

Dh and I must have been married in another life then because my newlywed years were more like the married 20 years behavior 😂

I think this meme also highlights the expectations, often unexpressed between the individuals, that are often out there - be it newlyweds or at any point in the relationship. Clear and honest communication and expectations is so helpful.

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I know they love me.   My husband drives me crazy when he knows I am going on a trip and just has to check every little bit of the car before I leave.....the tires, the oil, etc.....but when I talked to a woman who was in a bad marriage and I complained about it, she said, "I wish my husband cared enough about me to check the car before I left."
 

that made me realize that he does it because he does value me and wants me to stick around and be safe.   Even if he doesn't verbalize it.   

So, yes, my family makes sure I am safe and well, and that is enough.   I don't need to hear "Mom, you are the best mom in the world" platitudes.   I am content with the genuine care my family gives me.   There are things I wish they would do, but I know they care and love me, and they are all MEN.....so there is that.  😂

Edited by DawnM
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if you are having trouble with the word cherish, this is the meaning:

🎼🎶  

Cherish is the word I use to describe
All the feeling that I have hiding here for you inside
You don't know how many times I've wished that I had told you
You don't know how many times I've wished that I could hold you
You don't know how many times I've wished that I could
Mold you into someone who could
Cherish me as much as I cherish you

🎹🎵

🙃

 

 

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16 minutes ago, DawnM said:

if you are having trouble with the word cherish, this is the meaning:

🎼🎶  

Cherish is the word I use to describe
All the feeling that I have hiding here for you inside
You don't know how many times I've wished that I had told you
You don't know how many times I've wished that I could hold you
You don't know how many times I've wished that I could
Mold you into someone who could
Cherish me as much as I cherish you

🎹🎵

🙃

 

 

Well, someone who doesn't accept me for who I am, but who feels like they have to mold me into someone different is not someone I consider a healthy relationship partner. . . .

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35 minutes ago, DawnM said:

if you are having trouble with the word cherish, this is the meaning:

🎼🎶  

Cherish is the word I use to describe
All the feeling that I have hiding here for you inside
You don't know how many times I've wished that I had told you
You don't know how many times I've wished that I could hold you
You don't know how many times I've wished that I could
Mold you into someone who could
Cherish me as much as I cherish you

🎹🎵

🙃

 

 

I've had that song stuck in my head since this thread started! 

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1 hour ago, DawnM said:

if you are having trouble with the word cherish, this is the meaning:

🎼🎶  

Cherish is the word I use to describe
All the feeling that I have hiding here for you inside
You don't know how many times I've wished that I had told you
You don't know how many times I've wished that I could hold you
You don't know how many times I've wished that I could
Mold you into someone who could
Cherish me as much as I cherish you

🎹🎵

🙃

 

 

Ok, that was just cruel.

😉 

 

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2 hours ago, DawnM said:

if you are having trouble with the word cherish, this is the meaning:

🎼🎶  

Cherish is the word I use to describe
All the feeling that I have hiding here for you inside
You don't know how many times I've wished that I had told you
You don't know how many times I've wished that I could hold you
You don't know how many times I've wished that I could
Mold you into someone who could
Cherish me as much as I cherish you

🎹🎵

🙃

 

 

Haha, dh started singing this song to me when I first brought up this thread and I just stared at him blankly for a few seconds. Then I told him I had never heard that song

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