Thanks

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[fairfarmhand]

Really in your shoes, I would not do anything because as an in law, there’s no winning this. Just be kind and sweet and inclusive. 
 

what can you do? It’s insecurity and other than being loving, you can’t fix somebody else’s insecurities.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

No advice, but I’ve seen it in both sides of my family growing up.  One on side, my aunt felt my grandmother favored my family and my mom thoughf grandma favored my aunt and her kids.  In reality, Grandma just was a homebody who didn’t have much in common or to talk about with her daughter or DIL and instead talked to each about the others’ wonderful family and it came off like favoritism.  Unfortunately it caused a huge rift that didn’t heal until 20 years after Grandma’s death, and so I grew up not really knowing my cousins even though we were the same age and just miles apart.

On the other side of my family, there’s probably some truth that my grandma favors a couple grandkids over others.  I’m the oldest cousin at 40 years old, and grandma there is 88, and I don’t see anything changing.  Some of the accusations are accurate and some aren’t—like grandma taking one granddaughter on a high school graduation cruise and not the other one also graduating that year, but that one had a baby while in high school and so obviously a cruise wouldn’t have been practical. Yet the grandma could have given an equal cash gift or something and didn’t.  
 

If you’re comfortable talking to your SIL, I’d start there.  Or to the relatives showing the favoritism.  But sometimes the bottom line is that one set of relatives need more help than others for a period of time, or just click better, and that comes off as favoritism.

[KungFuPanda]

Wait, are you the one with the in-laws where the whole family took care of their kids for ages so they wouldn't have to?  Or am I mixing up stories?  Either way I can't see how your in-laws feelings toward your SIL is anything YOU can alter.  Why is your SIL putting this on you?  Why are you willing to carry it?

[Tanaqui]

Why do feel you need to respond to this? This has nothing to do with you. This is between her and them.

[footballmom]

I guess my response / next steps would depend on a lot of variables including:

1) how did this information come out and were you present when she shared her feelings I.e. we’re you a part of the immediate conversation

2) is she generally a reasonable person  and not manipulative (I am sensitive to being manipulated due to FOO issues)

You aren’t responsible for ILs actions / treatment and you aren’t responsible for her feelings.  You also aren’t the bridge.  But, if the feelings were shared with me directly, I would want her to know I hear her / see her and you sympathize with her feelings.

 

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[HS Mom in NC]

 It's an issue between her and your father in law.  If she brings it up to you, tell her that's a conversation for her to have with your father in law as he's an autonomous adult and you have no control over him. If someone other than your spouse told you, tell them that's between SIL and FIL and they'll have to address it, as it's not your place to comment on their relationship.

[katilac]

11 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

 Why is this on me?  Because it impacts every interaction between the two of us, and makes it hard to plan family stuff.  

It's still not for you to respond to. You can't speak for other people. 

Plus, what do you think you could say that would make them feel better about it? Assuring her that you think that's it's largely due to circumstances is not going to make her feel better or more accepting. 

If she wants to have a conversation about it, she needs to speak directly to the family members she feels are playing favorites. We have actually had to do this, and I never in a million years would have discussed it with the favored ones. There was no action for them to take. fwiw, our conversation was along the lines of, "We realize much of it is circumstantial, but here are the (very easy) things you can do that would them not feel slighted." Or me slighted on their behalf, lol. 

This is not a problem for you to solve. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by katilac

[JustEm]

This is a relationship issue between sil and her father. There is nothing for you to deal with other than say 'I'm sorry you feel this way, you should really discuss this with your father.' 

Your family has been dealing with medical emergencies for years and the level of help you get from your in-laws is amazing but that doesn't mean they favor you. They just know you need more specific help and are able to offer it just as your file and you were able to offer her family help when they needed it.

[readinmom]

As bad as you feel about this, it's not in your control.  I've lived this from the other side for 30 years.  My kids were/still are the less favored...  There is nothing you can do but make the relationship between the two of you/your kids a great one.  This is what we chose to focus on, establish a good rapport, in laws aside.  You can't make someone change...   You do have the power to make them feel accepted and loved for who/what they are.  

[freesia]

Well the reality is that your family has probably needed way more support over the past few years than they have.  I found the amount of help you all gave her around the birth of her baby extraordinary.  It seemed like longer than a month you were caring for her kids and you were also doing all the cooking for months, too, right?  I find it sad that she can't see the you all have really needed the help, but that even though her family didn't need help that badly, folks still did for her.

I am agreeing though, that there is not really anything you can do in general.  I think if you see specific examples of favoritism like one child getting a cruise and the other not, you can talk to FIL about it or refuse it for your child.  However, I wouldn't apply that to a situation like FIL or an uncle stepping in to help when a child's father can't be there for whatever reason--just big major things.  If FIL, etc are aware of her feelings, hopefully they will work this out in their hearts and with her.  I'd just keep loving and encouraging her.  But please don't stop asking for the help you may need. She's very good at asking for what she needs and taking care of herself.

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[freesia]

16 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I don't think I have that power.  

To be clear, I don't think my FIL is doing anything wrong.  

I agree you don't have the power to actually make them feel the love and acceptance, but you do have the power to accept and love them.  My dh said early on that no matter what we were going to be my nephews' cheerleaders.  It was so hard sometimes, but we really worked on just being positive about them to my mother and each other and praising them to my SIL and brother.  It created and awesome culture around our families' relationship long term.  I would think that that is what the pp meant.  Long term, if she experiences acceptance and love from your family and you work hard to push away the natural judgement that comes within these relationships and with these situations, she may relax and have perspective.  For some reason, she seems very focused on herself and very needy.  I don't know if she's always been in that place, or if she is overwhelmed right now. But I don't think any one thing will help short term.  And doing too much will actually make her feel like she is right. Just focus on what you can which is trying not to judge her even though she is wrong and telling her how great her kids are.

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Lecka]

There is ridiculous favoritism in some parts of my family.

One grandparent will never be allowed to be alone with any of my husband and I’s kids again.  

There are greater issues there.  The favoritism is a minor side issue.  
 

This is someone who favors girls, and at this point has 6 grandchildren, and our daughter is the only girl.  It crosses into offensive.

 

Then there is another grandparent who has shown very marked favoritism toward the children of my sister, the favorite one of his kids.

 

This is a lot easier to handle, but it has resulted in a lessening of the relationship with this grandparent.  
 

I resolved not to let it effect my relationship with my sister, and sometimes this has been an effort, but my sister has done nothing wrong and I know that.  

 

[catz]

You experienced something as a family they shouldn’t ever hope to.  Their expectations for help  what seemed to be a pretty normal 4th pregnancy were off the charts IMO.   Close families step up in a crises, they should grateful they haven’t had your circumstances   

this is an in law too correct so she shouldn’t even be commenting out loud. Honestly, it seems like she has lingering ppd or something and I say that as someone who dealt with that.  You should feel no need to respond at all because it won’t matter.  You have shown a lot of love and caring with your actions but she is still thinking this.  When someone’s perceptions are so misaligned to reality nothing will help with that.  

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[katilac]

10 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

So, she feels that it would be nice for her kids to have a Thanksgiving dinner that's all foods that they like, with nothing on the table they don't like. So, she chose the menu and I agreed to make it.  But my DH really loves my stuffing, which wasn't on the menu, so I planned to make some and take some to him, and then my kids and Pop could have it with leftovers.  

Anyway, my FIL found out the plan, and he didn't think it was reasonable.  He feels like Pop should be able to have stuffing with his meal.  This came up at a conversation while we were together, and she became really upset, saying it's not fair that my kids always get what they want.  

 

Who did it come up in conversation with? You and her, or you, her, FIL? Whoever brought it up in front of her should not have done so. 

I agree that it's unreasonable, but the problem is that you agreed to it. And when I say unreasonable, I mean pretty extraordinarily unreasonable, but FIL should not have jumped in and said that in front of her. Ideally, you would have asked her what their top choices were. promised to include them, and left it at that, but that ship has sailed. If FIL brought it up privately, I probably would have told her that you think Pop would enjoy stuffing with the meal, so you're sending some, but she can go ahead and leave it in the kitchen, lol. 

I feel like I know some quite-unreasonable people, and I can't imagine them asking for this. How did she even say it?

"This is the menu I'd like you to make, and I also don't want you to make anything else." 

"Here is what my kids would really enjoy having. Can you please make sure you don't make anything extra that they wouldn't like, because that will just destroy their enjoyment of the five dishes they do like?" 

Inquiring minds want to know. 

 

 

[freesia]

OK. She’s being ridiculous. This isn’t even about your kids. It’s about Pop. You are making the entire meal for her to order and dropping it off??????and she is only taking her kids preferences into account???? I don’t even know anyone who cooked the meal themselves who would do that. Why the heck can’t her kids look at food they don’t eat??? And no one mentioned your kids with regard to stuffing. 
Honestly, I would not let this bother you at all. You are very kind. If she says it to you I’d just ask what pop getting stuffing has to do with your kids and change the subject. Hopefully FIL will have a sit down with her. It sounds like he is confronting her. 

[katilac]

1 minute ago, freesia said:

 Hopefully FIL will have a sit down with her. It sounds like he is confronting her. 

Which is absolutely his right to do, but he should do it privately, not when poor B&H is standing there. 

[freesia]

1 minute ago, katilac said:

Which is absolutely his right to do, but he should do it privately, not when poor B&H is standing there. 

Yes, absolutely. 

[freesia]

I think there is some tweaking that needs to be done with regard to treatment. Is her dh receptive to concern?

[catz]

A loving and engaged in law would have said “It must be so hard to have DH away for the holiday.  I will host pop and the kids.  If your kids have favorites for thanksgiving other than what we serve, you are welcome to send something.”  She sounds not rational at all.  That food request was not reasonable in the first place and the she tantrums about having a single additional dish the oldest member of the family likes? 🙄  how about she steps foot in a kitchen?   

It sounds like she needs a sit down talk with FIL.  

[Moonhawk]

Okay, this is a horrible situation to be in, I'm sorry for the extra emotional work this is dropping at your door.

...but I just lol'd at how this was revealed and her reaction to this situation. Ridiculous. Outrageously so.

Ignore it, this is not something that is solvable, and not solvable by you even if there was a solution. Maybe she's still really hormonal post-pregnancy or something, but I don't think I've heard more ridiculous "woe is me, I'm the unfavored one" than this.

I hope they resolve this "stuffing tragedy" without having to involve you. I'd be appalled at telling any relative, let alone Pop, they can't have stuffing on the table at Thanksgiving because my kids are *checks notes* not as spoiled as their cousins? When a whole Thanksgiving dinner is being catered to them, a tailor-made menu? And dropped off?! SIGN ME UP for this unfavored role.

Serious lol, don't let it get to you, it will blow over I think, one way or another.

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Moonhawk

[freesia]

1 minute ago, FuzzyCatz said:

A loving and engaged in law would have said “It must be so hard to have DH away for the holiday.  I will host pop and the kids.  If your kids have favorites for thanksgiving other than what we serve, you are welcome to send something.”  She sounds not rational at all.  That food request was not reasonable in the first place and the she tantrums about having a single additional dish the oldest member of the family likes? 🙄  how about she steps foot in a kitchen?   

It sounds like she needs a sit down talk with FIL.  

Yes, it absolutely boggles my mind that this was not how it played out. Under the same circumstances I would have prioritized B&H’s kid’s preferences. They are the ones not eating with their parents. And I don’t love to cook either. 

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Lecka]

I think maybe there is a long history there that goes back to things that happened a long time ago.

We have things like that.  
 

It’s just impossible because people don’t remember things the same way, etc.  

 

[City Mouse]

So, you are making all the thanksgiving foods and sending it to her house so she doesn’t have to prepare anything? And she is upset that her dad wants to include the stuffing for the grandfather? And she is blaming that on favoritism toward your kids? It seems a bit irrational to me unless there is some family culture that the kids have to eat everything that is served even if they don’t like it.

I have a kid who only eats mashed potatoes and Mac and cheese on Thanksgiving. It doesn’t seem reasonable to not serve other foods just because some people don’t like it.
I would assume that this example is probably just a sample of what SIL sees as a larger issues. At last I hope so.

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Tanaqui]

Okay, it does not even remotely "sound reasonable" that she told you that it wasn't enough to have things on the table that her kids like, but that you shouldn't make ANYTHING ELSE when YOU were doing all the cooking and, apparently, were willing to do so.

There is something extremely wrong with your perception if you think that's even a little reasonable, and there's something extremely wrong with her if she thinks so as well.

You are being a pushover. If she wants to host and not cook next year, recommend a few caterers. When you host, make some things her kids like and otherwise do what you want. Do not let anybody drag you into fights between her and anybody else. If it has nothing to do with you - then it has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU, and if she insists on making things hard, oh well. Tell her she's welcome to bring it up with her therapist but you are not willing to discuss it with her.

[freesia]

6 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

He and Pop and my oldest son were over there helping out with some stuff, and FIL asked what was the menu for Thanksgiving.  Poor guy probably thought it was a safe topic of conversation.  My kids are weirdly into cooking and menu planning so my son told him the menu, and asked why there was no stuffing, and my kid was like "Well you'll have stuffing because mom's going to make some for Dad, and we'll have some at home with our leftovers."  

So, he texted me and was like "What is up with the stuffing?" So, I just said that she'd chosen the meal to be "kid friendly". Then I was over there that evening, and he brought it up saying "Pop really likes stuffing, I think you should have some at the meal since you're already making it."  And then things kind of exploded. 

So, we were texting back and forth "What about this, what about that?"  And each time I texted a food that her kids don't eat (they are like normal kid picky, not super picky), she'd say "let's not have that, my kids don't like it".  So, finally her sister, said "Can't we serve anything they don't like?" and she says "you serve things the boys (my kids) like all the time, it seems fair that if we're at my house we should have things my kids like."  Which is one of those things that sounds reasonable.  Except my boys are at the teenage stage where they'll eat anything since they are starving all the time from growing, plus we always make sure that every shared meal has multiple things on the table that her kids like.  We just also serve other things.

I really needed a place for my kids and Pop to have Thanksgiving dinner.  So, I was willing to agree to anything to keep the peace 

 

But it only sounds reasonable if she’s doing the cooking or maybe if the other joint meals don’t have things her kids like ever or often. She isn’t cooking for her kids. You are. I would send the stuffing.  I might even send things my kids and Pop like that she didn’t want. But I guess that would be too much drama. 

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Harriet Vane]

Stuffing should not be such a huge, ugly deal. 

She's not being rational. 

Her statements about the menu are ridiculous.

Stop engaging. Just let it go. There's no way to explain your way through this. Do your awesome plan and let her grouse. 

 

As a counterpoint--I have to eat both gluten free and dairy free. It's so high maintenance. I have never once asked dh's relatives (who we are usually with on the holidays) to shift the menu to accommodate me. I bring my own stuff and when they offer to accommodate me I tell them it's okay and not to worry about it. Every single time, they DO do something to make me feel included with safe foods. Every single time. They did exactly the same for my ds when he had lactose issues as a little guy. That's what families do. We don't rant at each other about who gets their favorite food and who doesn't like to even see other people's food on the table. Sheesh.

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Harriet Vane]

2 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I am being a pushover because I need her to host.  She doesn't want to host, but I need a place for my kids and Pop to go.  FIL really wants to see his son.  So, she's in this position where she has all the power.  

 

I am really, really sorry that she doesn't offer a warm, welcoming place for her family (your kids and Pop) to be when there is a long-term, serious crisis for you and your kids. What a princess.

[Harriet Vane]

5 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

The only food allergy issue is one of her kids and nuts.  Since I cook for them so much, I already keep a nut free kitchen.  But that's totally different.  Of course, keeping her safe is a priority.  

Right--I was not suggesting any food allergy worries for her. I was giving the example that loving families make room for everyone to be together. She's being a princess about the menu--food she is not even preparing. She shouldn't be refusing one dish because her kids aren't crazy about it. 

Edited to add: This is the part that was my real point directed at HER, not you:

We don't rant at each other about who gets their favorite food and who doesn't like to even see other people's food on the table. Sheesh.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Harriet Vane
clarification

[prairiewindmomma]

In your shoes, I would crack a bottle of wine and pour a glass while shaking my head because she is straight up way out of line. You didn’t cause this problem, you can’t solve it, and likely engaging with her on this is going to just fuel the drama. You have enough on your plate (apparently figuratively and literally) that I would save my emotional energy for other things.

In a pinch, could you and your FIL take turns sitting in the car in the parking lot of the facility with the boys or leave them at home for a couple of hours? I’d be hesitant to put myself in a position of feeling like she’s holding a holiday hostage.  

[Moonhawk]

10 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I am being a pushover because I need her to host.  She doesn't want to host, but I need a place for my kids and Pop to go.  FIL really wants to see his son.  So, she's in this position where she has all the power.  

 

But I mean, what is all that power even worth if she has to have stuffing on the table at Thanksgiving?

/end sarcasm.

I'm sorry, I think I am getting ticked off for you more than you are, which doesn't seem quite fair. I get why you're being accommodating. I guess I just don't want you to feel like you've done something wrong by her feeling like she's less favored than you, because if this (and similar) proof is what she's leaning on, you guying are showing a lot of love and favor to her.

Yes, every relationship has times where there is unequal attention being given, based on who needs it and who can give it, but that's what family is for. You guys have been great family to her, and it shouldn't be held against you that you've needed them to be great family sometimes too. She is keeping score when there isn't a game being played, it's life; and frankly she won the lottery having a supportive and patient family that is willing to even listen to these types of complaints.

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Carol in Cal.]

There are some people who always complain, and most of the time this benefits them, so they are encouraged by that to keep doing so.

IME the only way to stop this is to not let their complaints benefit them, sort of cheerfully do what you want to anyway.

[Tap]

Yes, I have dealt with it, but honestly it doesn't matter much to me. My mom helped raise my sisters kids (they lived with her for years) so she favored them.  My in-laws greatly favor one set of grandkids, but they also lived with them for a while. I think it is just a bit natural for that to happen. They just know each other on a more familiar level. My kids are great but honestly, we weren't around as much as the other families, so the grandparents didn't really know my kids.

As far as you situation, I would just go with what she wants and leave it at that. The host should try to accommodate her guests, but she does control the menu, so can dictate what she wants on the menu. If you want to make another Thanksgiving dinner on another day, do it!  That way you can make all the foods, in the combinations you and your family want! 

I do think it is really odd, that she wants to be so controlling over the foods, but everyone has thier thing that they are fussy about. Personally, I would just silently roll my eyes, and move on, being happy to have family to fuss about 🙂 

[Slache]

No one favors her because she's a jerk. If she'd stop being a jerk her problem would go away. I'm not denying anything you've said in this thread, but she's still a jerk. Unfortunately, as long as she chooses to be a jerk these issues will continue no matter what you do.

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I am being a pushover because I need her to host.  She doesn't want to host, but I need a place for my kids and Pop to go.  FIL really wants to see his son.  So, she's in this position where she has all the power.  

 

So, the fact she doesn't want to host jumps out at me. PPD + four kids - I can see that.

Is this part of her unreasonableness? Is she being unreasonable over stuffing because she's passive-aggressively avoiding asserting boundaries about what's actually bothering her, which is that she doesn't want to host? 

It all sounds very complicated, because it sounds like there are multiple elephants in the room. 

You're feeling used, she's feeling resentful, you and other sis are allies, casting this sis as the problem,  menfolk are oblivious and waiting on stuffing?

My advice is to either have a conversation about the elephants with the SIL, or just back away, don't fret about it, and just send the stuffing. 

[Tanaqui]

She doesn't have all the power. I'm sorry, it's just not true.

You are choosing to GIVE her the power here.

Let's go back to the ridiculous conversation where she apparently bamboozled you into thinking her absolutely bizarre demand was reasonable. (Again - it wasn't.)

Why did you even let it get that far? You must know how she is. This can NOT be new. Why didn't you say "Name five foods you want to see on the table, I'll make them" and then hang up the phone and come up with the rest of the menu alone?

Or if she really blindsided you, why didn't you say "That's ridiculous. I'll make what your kids like, but they're not going to suffer if everybody else has their faves too"? Do you really think she was going to say "Fine, well, I won't host" at that point? If so - why are you even talking about sneaking around with stuffing? Do you *like* creating more work and drama for yourself? She's not going to throw you out once you show up at the door, so why didn't you just plan to make the stuffing and the veggies and whatever all else for everybody and, once you got there, put it on the table? "Oh, I thought we agreed to this menu! Must've gotten confused, so sorry!"

(Or, really, why did you agree to cook? Again - this is what caterers are for, so when your ridiculous SIL wants to host but not cook, you can agree to go halfsies on having it professionally done. If she wants everybody to cater to her, that is literally their job.)

You want to have some time away from the kids on the holiday. Your kids want to play kickball with their cousins. Okay. Next year, agree to have the cousins over Friday night through Saturday morning, hire a babysitter for a few of those hours. Everybody eats Thanksgiving dinner at home. If your husband feels he's not spending enough time with his sister, niblings, and/or father, tell him that he can do the planning for a monthly game night or whatever throughout the year. It's his family, he can arrange it. Done, done, and done.

She does not, in fact, have all the power. If you stop playing her games, you will be amazed at how quickly she stops trying to drag you into them.

[Carrie12345]

I read the initial post with one thought in mind, and by the end… Wow!

I’m sorry this is a thing. I don’t know how or why SIL has made a leap from whatever her root issue is to being bizarrely obnoxious and taking it out on everyone… over stuffing. 

I can relate to “normal”, general jealousy. I am the jealous one in my FOO. My siblings know this. My siblings aren’t responsible for it. And I’d never let my nieces and nephew pay for it. So, even with my own crazy family, I’m struggling to find something to draw on here.

Logistically, I don’t know what to say. Emotionally, this is not about you. Don’t forget that. You’ve done nothing wrong. You do go above and beyond. At the very MOST, “I’m sorry you feel that way” seems plenty to offer for a situation not of your making.

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 4, 2021 by Baseballandhockey