Help me with answering these type questions please

[Scarlett]

My mom, whom I love dearly, asks me questions in a way that drives me bonkers.  Here are two examples----via text.

'Have you picked up groceries yet?'  To clarify, I had not talked to her all day, she had no knowledge of my grocery buying plans for the week, much less that day.  And what does 'yet' mean?  I had picked up the day before but I will pick up groceries again, but to cut to the chase I can surmise that she probably needs something and I am MORE than willing to drop everything and run to the store for her.  So I thought about it for a minute and said, 'do you need me to get something for you?'  (she did and I got it for her)  Later she made mention that she couldn't even get me to answer if I had picked up groceries yet.....but I just want her to ask for what she needs/wants and let me decide if I can accomplish it for her. Am I being weird?

Yesterday at 3 pm, via text she says 'Do you have dinner planned?'  So I just answered 'yes.'  Later I called her and she said, 'well, I was going to make pork chops and have you guys come for dinner, but you already have plans'.  I said, 'mom, are you inviting us to dinner? Because we can put off our plan for making dinner.'  Again, she acts like I am weird and say, 'no I was just talking about making pork chops for no reason.'  Dh was listening and just said, 'sure we can come for dinner' and so we did and it was great. 

I just don't know how to deal with vague questions about my plans.  I really want to be a good and kind human and daughter.  How to I communicate with her without bossing her around about how to communicate with me?  I want to say, 'please just ask what you want to ask without trying to determine what I have planned already.'

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Scarlett

[regentrude]

This sounds very familiar. She asks this way because she does not want to inconvenience you. She wouldn't tell you to go shopping for her, unless you're still going anyway. She wouldn't want you to change your dinner plans, but in case you didn't, she'd love to have you. She is trying to tread carefully and not impose on you.

Now that you have identified the pattern, you can interpret her vague questions, and the next time she asks something like this, you can preemptively ask "Do you need anything?". I don't think you will be able to change the way she communicates, because these patterns have been established over decades. 

ETA: Women have been conditioned not to express their needs and wishes directly. It wasn't considered appropriate. While the lack of directness can be maddening, I see it as the result of societal expectations on what polite behavior for a woman looks like.

Edited November 15, 2021 by regentrude

[prairiewindmomma]

This is a Midwest culture thing. I always respond back:

1. Oh, what do you need?

2. What did you have in mind?

She’s not asking directly because that would be rude for the cultural time frame she grew up in. She knows you are busy and doesn’t want to be a bother.

Fwiw, if she has spoken directly before and isn’t now she either:

1. Thinks you are upset with her or

2. is starting to slip a little cognitively and can’t switch to speaking directly as easily for you. She is reverting back to old patterns.

[Katy]

“Why do you ask?”

[HS Mom in NC]

You're not weird.  It drives me nuts when people are vague and indirect.  They probably don't realize how incredibly grating it is to others. They probably see it as a form of "being nice." I hate board games, guessing games, riddles etc. so I don't play a version of "guess what I really mean" when dealing with an adult over stuff like this.

I assume there's some sort of personality trait or subcultural background that creates an environment that trains children to do this. Directness is probably considered rude rather than neutral like it really is.

My husband is sort of prone to it, so I force the issue and he's been mostly broken of his bad habit. When he says something vague I matter of factly ask a series of questions about what he could possible mean.  So using your examples, here's how I would respond:

Mom: "Have you picked up groceries yet?"
Me: "Are you asking if I can go pick something up at the store for you or are you making conversation about what I've been up to lately or something else?"

Mom: "Do you have dinner planned?"
Me: "Are you asking about my dinner plans to make chit chat or are you inviting to me to come over for dinner or something else?"

Or I'll go with a standard, "Why do you ask?"

The key is keeping the tone matter of fact or pleasant if you can manage pleasant.  Sometimes I can't manage pleasant.

[Scarlett]

The weird part of this is that my mom is the most direct and blunt person I know to the point that she gets herself in trouble hurting people's feelings.  This might be new since their accident a year ago....not sure.  

I think I am going to start using the 'why do you ask?' but I know she considers that rude because my niece does it and she doesn't like it.  But honestly it might open up a chance for me to tell her I just need her to ask what she is really asking.

[Moonhawk]

So the "straight to the point" responses of how you handled it make sense to me and I think are acceptable. But since it seems to be bothering her, I'd answer her actual question in a way that shows it doesn't matter WHAT the answer is, you want to hear why she's asking and it's not an inconvenience.

"Have you picked up groceries yet?" "Yes, but I'm thinking of going out again, what do you need?"

"Do you have dinner planned?" "Yes, but it isn't set in stone yet, what were you thinking?"

[Scarlett]

16 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

You're not weird.  It drives me nuts when people are vague and indirect.  They probably don't realize how incredibly grating it is to others. They probably see it as a form of "being nice." I hate board games, guessing games, riddles etc. so I don't play a version of "guess what I really mean" when dealing with an adult over stuff like this.



The key is keeping the tone matter of fact or pleasant if you can manage pleasant.  Sometimes I can't manage pleasant.

The bolded is what I am striving for.  I don't want to make her feel bad and honestly she is 76 and I don't feel like retraining her because that will hurt her feelings....but maybe I can gently get her to see her questions need to be more direct.

[PeterPan]

27 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

What did you have in mind?

I like this better than asking Why, as why is bristling. Asking what she has in mind is receptive and positive. I hate when people reply to my social attempts with why or asking whether I need anything. It's sort of putting up a wall, like they're saying I annoy them and they don't want to engage. 

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

This might be new since their accident a year ago....not sure. 

Oh maybe, or she's gotten burnt so much she's trying to figure out a new way. Or both. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by PeterPan

[fairfarmhand]

My MIL would do this. It was maddening. You had to figure out what her angle was before you could answer. It felt very manipulative at times. 

I think for her it was 1. Conditioning that directness was considered rude, especially for women. 2. Didn't want to be a bother, not realizing that people having to turn circles mentally before answering was MORE of a bother than just coming out to say what she needed. 3. She didnt have the confidence that if it was inconvenient someone would say, Now isn't a good time. They would just resentfully do what she asked (I think this is because she had poor boundaries, had a hard time saying no, and then felt put out/stressed for having to do the thing she couldn't say no to. In other words, she projected her stuff onto other people.)

[SKL]

I agree that she is trying to let you know she wants something without demanding it.  It is how she was taught to be considerate.  It gives you the option of saying, "yes, I'm all set and I won't have time to go shopping again until Friday," without actually saying "no" to her.  🙂

Or "yes we have a ham in the oven" instead of "no we don't want to come for dinner.

But you are also conditioned to know what she wants and how to accommodate her if that's what you choose to do.

"Did you need something?" was the right answer for #1 in this case.

"Did you have something in mind?" would be a great answer for #2.  Or, "we do have a ham in the oven, but we are open on Thursday if you wanted to do something together."

Yes, it's a dance, but I don't think it's a bad thing.

[Scarlett]

12 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I like this better than asking Why, as why is bristling. Asking what she has in mind is receptive and positive. I hate when people reply to my social attempts with why or asking whether I need anything. It's sort of putting up a wall, like they're saying I annoy them and they don't want to engage. 

 

Thank you for this.  That is very helpful, especially since I do know she considers the 'why do you ask?' phrase to be bristling (that is a good word to describe it.  

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

My MIL would do this. It was maddening. You had to figure out what her angle was before you could answer. It felt very manipulative at times. 

I think for her it was 1. Conditioning that directness was considered rude, especially for women. 2. Didn't want to be a bother, not realizing that people having to turn circles mentally before answering was MORE of a bother than just coming out to say what she needed. 3. She didnt have the confidence that if it was inconvenient someone would say, Now isn't a good time. They would just resentfully do what she asked (I think this is because she had poor boundaries, had a hard time saying no, and then felt put out/stressed for having to do the thing she couldn't say no to. In other words, she projected her stuff onto other people.)

This.  And with the store question I was able to say to her, 'Mom, I drive past WM 4 times a day.  I can stop any of those times to get anything you need and I am HAPPY to do it.  You aren't bothering me at all.'  I think that was helpful...because a time or two after that she did directly ask me to do something for her.'

[Katy]

31 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

The weird part of this is that my mom is the most direct and blunt person I know to the point that she gets herself in trouble hurting people's feelings.  This might be new since their accident a year ago....not sure.  

I think I am going to start using the 'why do you ask?' but I know she considers that rude because my niece does it and she doesn't like it.  But honestly it might open up a chance for me to tell her I just need her to ask what she is really asking.

Being vague is rude, and possibly manipulative. So I wouldn’t worry about that. 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Katy said:

Being vague is rude, and possibly manipulative. So I wouldn’t worry about that. 

Well, I do worry about my mom's feelings.  She is 76 and I I believe elderly people need kindness more than they need anything nearly.  I want to not feel irritated about the way she asks questions, so I am trying to find a balance of being kind and try to cut to the chase.

[regentrude]

Actually, I am totally guilty of asking friends "Do you have plans tonight?", and I have been on the receiving end of the question. It seems to be fairly standard
If a person has no plans, the next question is "Do you want to hang out?". If they have plans, then the question is not asked.
I see this as fully equivalent to asking first "do you want to hang out?" and then being told "No, I have plans".

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

This sounds very familiar. She asks this way because she does not want to inconvenience you. She wouldn't tell you to go shopping for her, unless you're still going anyway. She wouldn't want you to change your dinner plans, but in case you didn't, she'd love to have you. She is trying to tread carefully and not impose on you.

Now that you have identified the pattern, you can interpret her vague questions, and the next time she asks something like this, you can preemptively ask "Do you need anything?". I don't think you will be able to change the way she communicates, because these patterns have been established over decades. 

ETA: Women have been conditioned not to express their needs and wishes directly. It wasn't considered appropriate. While the lack of directness can be maddening, I see it as the result of societal expectations on what polite behavior for a woman looks like.

I am so sorry about the loss of your father.  I just now saw you mention it in another thread.  😞

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Actually, I am totally guilty of asking friends "Do you have plans tonight?", and I have been on the receiving end of the question. It seems to be fairly standard
If a person has no plans, the next question is "Do you want to hang out?". If they have plans, then the question is not asked.
I see this as fully equivalent to asking first "do you want to hang out?" and then being told "No, I have plans".

I much prefer you ask me if I want to hang out and let me answer yes or no.  I mean maybe I don't have plans but I don't want to hang out.  LOL

[lauraw4321]

I have the same struggle with an elder in my life, but I really like the ideas you’ve been given here. And you are so right about elders needing kindness. 

[PeterPan]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well, I do worry about my mom's feelings.  She is 76 and I I believe elderly people need kindness more than they need anything nearly.  I want to not feel irritated about the way she asks questions, so I am trying to find a balance of being kind and try to cut to the chase.

I think you're handling it exactly the right way then, emphasizing kindness over taking offense. She seems like a spectrumy sort of person, maybe someone with some social thinking difficulties, and it's probably late to change that or do any big thing. I think just kindness and learning how to live together on the planet is enough. It's what most people want, and the fact that she's reaching out is something. It is a supreme kindness not to be easily offended.

[PeterPan]

15 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

try to cut to the chase.

You also live at different tempos of life. Just saying. I find that with my father I have to hit the pause button and be very intentional, even if it's just for 7 minutes (our average daily phone call). 

[HS Mom in NC]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

I like this better than asking Why, as why is bristling. Asking what she has in mind is receptive and positive. I hate when people reply to my social attempts with why or asking whether I need anything. It's sort of putting up a wall, like they're saying I annoy them and they don't want to engage. 

 

Aaand that thinking is exactly what perpetuates the problem. Why is perfectly neutral and precise. Neutral is just as good as overtly positive. It's not putting up a wall, it's giving you an entry point to engage. All this imagined meaning should've ended a long time ago. 

[Carrie12345]

I don’t have a high tolerance for vagueness, so I just answer the questions I’m given, and I don’t see why that would be considered rude of me.

That said, my mother lives hundreds of miles away, so it isn’t much of an issue with her. She might text asking me if I’m busy, but that clearly means “Do you have time to talk” when there is zero chance of her needing anything else, lol.

”Are you busy <whenever>” IS a small pet peeve of mine. I’m happy to rearrange plans for some things, but will fake plans for others. Meet for coffee? Sure! Come to a party with mostly strangers? Kill me! Pick me up from the auto shop? Absolutely. Watch my snake? I  hate you.  I need to know what I’m getting into.  It’s not you, it’s the activity.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t have a high tolerance for vagueness, so I just answer the questions I’m given, and I don’t see why that would be considered rude of me.

That said, my mother lives hundreds of miles away, so it isn’t much of an issue with her. She might text asking me if I’m busy, but that clearly means “Do you have time to talk” when there is zero chance of her needing anything else, lol.

”Are you busy <whenever>” IS a small pet peeve of mine. I’m happy to rearrange plans for some things, but will fake plans for others. Meet for coffee? Sure! Come to a party with mostly strangers? Kill me! Pick me up from the auto shop? Absolutely. Watch my snake? I  hate you.  I need to know what I’m getting into.  It’s not you, it’s the activity.

Exactly!

[Farrar]

24 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

Aaand that thinking is exactly what perpetuates the problem. Why is perfectly neutral and precise. Neutral is just as good as overtly positive. It's not putting up a wall, it's giving you an entry point to engage. All this imagined meaning should've ended a long time ago. 

I agree with this so much. I also find this sort of thing infuriating.

But as I've gotten older, I've also tried to learn to let it go. And that especially goes for dealing with older folks. People are weird. They should just say what they mean and not make all these assumptions about things that aren't there. But also, people are gonna people. So I try to speak their language if it's someone I care about and I want the world to run smoothly.

[bolt.]

I'd go with a formula of: (the true answer) + (but everything is flexible) + (please share your idea)

Something like, "I plan dinner every night, but I'm happy to change things up. What are your thoughts?"

[regentrude]

29 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

”Are you busy <whenever>” IS a small pet peeve of mine. I’m happy to rearrange plans for some things, but will fake plans for others. Meet for coffee? Sure! Come to a party with mostly strangers? Kill me! Pick me up from the auto shop? Absolutely. Watch my snake? I  hate you.  I need to know what I’m getting into.  It’s not you, it’s the activity.

But that is an easy conversation.

"Do you have plans tonight?". "No, not really". "Would you like to come over and have a drink/watch my snake/change the oil on my car?" "Actually, I don't feel like company/ I'd rather stay in and read - rain check?" Sure. No problem. Talk soon."

Edited November 15, 2021 by regentrude

[Hoggirl]

Part of the inherent problem with communicating via text (or email) is the LACK of tone.  Voice inflection can be extraordinarily helpful.  “Why do you ask?” can communicate enthusiasm or annoyance if it’s spoken with a certain inflection.  Typed out (while neutral) it comes across as harsh to me. Rightly or wrongly, I think, “why,” can put one in a defensive posturing.  

If you really don’t mind going any day/any time to pick up something your mom needs, then I guess it isn’t an issue.  I would be more inclined to text her before you are going anyway and see if she needs anything.  I mean, an every once in awhile need is one thing, but I wouldn’t want to set up a pattern of constantly swinging by WM just to pick her up an item or two any time she ask (whether directly OR vaguely). Or, if you always go to he store on a certain day, “Hey, Mom.  I usually hit the store on Tuesdays.  Please let me know by Monday night if you’d also like me to pick some things up for you while I am there.”  

Interesting discussion on how other factors (gender, geography, upbringing, etc) play into directness or not. 

In general, I don’t ask whether people have plans or not unless it is for something really casual or last-minute (which isn’t my style). Usually, I just say, “Can you go to lunch next Thursday?”  But, if I were going to approach it that way I’d say, “I made a vat of chili - if you don’t have plans tonight, I’d love for you to join us for dinner. Haven’t seen you in so long, and we have plenty to share!”   Or, “A group of us are going to trivia tonight if you want to join us.” So, I think I would always state what I have in mind and maybe tack on the, “if you don’t have plans,” part at the end. 

I do think you can retrain folks to respond to you as you want them to.  Honestly, I’d just have a discussion with her about the vagueness of her texts. Face to face.

[KungFuPanda]

I OVERstand.  I grew up in a culture where it's rude to inconvenience anyone if you can at all help it, but you should inconvenience yourself unless your dying.  I now live in a culture where direct communication and honesty is valued higher.  Switching back and forth can be tricky and I have a VERY strong preference for "just tell me what you're thinking." 

I can't help but feel that "Are you busy on x day?" is a trap.  I hate that question. My answer is "Hooker, I might be busy if you've got some nonsense in mind." I have a friend who will text me that, and I ALWAYS wait her out until she clarifies.  It's been anything from "Can you pick me up at the airport at midnight on Christmas Eve?" to "Can I drop off this thing for so-and-so to pick up at your house?"  I cannot answer her without knowing if we're going to dinner or if I'm speaking at her mother's funeral.  (NONE of these examples are made up.  I LOVE this friend, but she is all over the place with her requests.  She can take no for an answer without being grudgy, so she's a keeper.)

Edited November 15, 2021 by KungFuPanda

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Hoggirl said:

Part of the inherent problem with communicating via text (or email) is the LACK of tone.  Voice inflection can be extraordinarily helpful.  “Why do you ask?” can communicate enthusiasm or annoyance if it’s spoken with a certain inflection.  Typed out (while neutral) it comes across as harsh to me. Rightly or wrongly, I think, “why,” can put one in a defensive posturing.  

If you really don’t mind going any day/any time to pick up something your mom needs, then I guess it isn’t an issue.  I would be more inclined to text her before you are going anyway and see if she needs anything.  I mean, an every once in awhile need is one thing, but I wouldn’t want to set up a pattern of constantly swinging by WM just to pick her up an item or two any time she ask (whether directly OR vaguely). Or, if you always go to he store on a certain day, “Hey, Mom.  I usually hit the store on Tuesdays.  Please let me know by Monday night if you’d also like me to pick some things up for you while I am there.”  

Interesting discussion on how other factors (gender, geography, upbringing, etc) play into directness or not. 

In general, I don’t ask whether people have plans or not unless it is for something really casual or last-minute (which isn’t my style). Usually, I just say, “Can you go to lunch next Thursday?”  But, if I were going to approach it that way I’d say, “I made a vat of chili - if you don’t have plans tonight, I’d love for you to join us for dinner. Haven’t seen you in so long, and we have plenty to share!”   Or, “A group of us are going to trivia tonight if you want to join us.” So, I think I would always state what I have in mind and maybe tack on the, “if you don’t have plans,” part at the end. 

I do think you can retrain folks to respond to you as you want them to.  Honestly, I’d just have a discussion with her about the vagueness of her texts. Face to face.

To the bolded, she does grocery pick up from on line ordering about once a week.  So I know she is not likely to ever get in the habit of having me run by the store daily which I would  not like.  

 

And I agree 'why do you ask?' over test can sound harsh.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I OVERstand.  I grew up in a culture where it's rude to inconvenience anyone if you can at all help it, but you should inconvenience yourself unless your dying.  I now live in a culture where direct communication and honesty is valued higher.  Switching back and forth can be tricky and I have a VERY strong preference for "just tell me what you're thinking." 

This reminds me of our Japanese exchange student who told us it drove her CRAZY in her culture because when it came time for a group of friends/family to go out to dinner NO ONE would express a preference.  My dad, who is NOT Japanese, is also this way.  I mean, I often don't mind where we go, but I certainly will give suggestions. 

[fairfarmhand]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

This reminds me of our Japanese exchange student who told us it drove her CRAZY in her culture because when it came time for a group of friends/family to go out to dinner NO ONE would express a preference.  My dad, who is NOT Japanese, is also this way.  I mean, I often don't mind where we go, but I certainly will give suggestions. 

This is infuriating.

Me: Where would you like to go?

Them: Oh anywhere is fine with me. I don't care.

Me: Are you sure? Because I'd love to treat you to something that you enjoy.

Them: I love anything. I'm easy.

Me: How about that place?

Them: Oh, I had that last week.

Me: Oh. Okay. So anyplace but there?

Them: Sure. I really don't mind.

Me: Well, it's been awhile since I had Barbecue.

Them: Oh that always gives me gas. If I eat there, I'll be running you out of the car on the way home.

Me: Well, we certainly don't want that.

Them: But, whatever...you know me, I'll eat pretty much anything.

Me: Ok. Hmmm...What about Chinese?

Them: Oh, I don't care for Chinese. It's one of my few dislikes.

Me: Why don't you tell me the places you don't want to go and I'll suggest a few others.

Them: Oh anything is fine. Anything at all....

Me: 🙄

[livetoread]

Now that my folks have entered their early 80s, they are much more worried about being an inconvenience. They aren't - nothing has changed really (so far so good) - but their perception of their own abilities is much more fragile. They know they are only going downhill from here, and they are reminded of it in so many little ways all the time, so I think they see the future and their dependency on me and worry. Communication has gotten more vague as their concerns have grown. It's hard.

[prairiewindmomma]

27 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

This is infuriating.

Me: Where would you like to go?

Them: Oh anywhere is fine with me. I don't care.

Me: Are you sure? Because I'd love to treat you to something that you enjoy.

Them: I love anything. I'm easy.

Me: How about that place?

Them: Oh, I had that last week.

Me: Oh. Okay. So anyplace but there?

Them: Sure. I really don't mind.

Me: Well, it's been awhile since I had Barbecue.

Them: Oh that always gives me gas. If I eat there, I'll be running you out of the car on the way home.

Me: Well, we certainly don't want that.

Them: But, whatever...you know me, I'll eat pretty much anything.

Me: Ok. Hmmm...What about Chinese?

Them: Oh, I don't care for Chinese. It's one of my few dislikes.

Me: Why don't you tell me the places you don't want to go and I'll suggest a few others.

Them: Oh anything is fine. Anything at all....

Me: 🙄

For this situation, I suggest a pick three: "How about I pick three restaurants, and you pick from those?" Either it will work, or it will spawn their own new suggestion.

[Carol in Cal.]

I agree with the OP—this is extremely annoying.  Good advice in the thread already.

[prairiewindmomma]

11 minutes ago, livetoread said:

Now that my folks have entered their early 80s, they are much more worried about being an inconvenience. They aren't - nothing has changed really (so far so good) - but their perception of their own abilities is much more fragile. They know they are only going downhill from here, and they are reminded of it in so many little ways all the time, so I think they see the future and their dependency on me and worry. Communication has gotten more vague as their concerns have grown. It's hard.

This, so much this. It's actually a point of anxiety that my relatives tend to hyper focus on.  They don't want to burn out the goodwill early on because they know they are only going to need more help in the future.

I'm also, based on my experiences, hesitant to put too much structure into the "why don't I help you on Fridays" situation because that can lead to situations where they need a drug picked up on Tuesday but are hesitant to ask since it's not Friday. 

We've had bad situations where relatives had hidden serious falls, neglected to tell us about ER trips, and the like because "they don't want to be a bother".  

It's not rational behavior. It's certainly not what I would have expected out of these people 20-30 years ago.  It *IS* a normal pattern that I see in elderly people, PARTICULARLY those who are Midwest nice. IME, if you are from a direct speaking culture, you may become more direct to the point of rudeness as you age.  If you have been socially conditioned to speak indirectly, you may lean more into that.  Telling people to be more direct isn't necessarily helpful because it's giving the cue that their asking is annoying you.  Nor would I ascribe manipulation or the like into it.  Match their behavior---if they are being open ended, be open ended back, and be patient. They are trying to tell you something, but their social skills are slacking and they are needing help to tell you.

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

But that is an easy conversation.

"Do you have plans tonight?". "No, not really". "Would you like to come over and have a drink/watch my snake/change the oil on my car?" "Actually, I don't feel like company/ I'd rather stay in and read - rain check?" Sure. No problem. Talk soon."

This would definitely work fine with some people I know.  Not all. Guilt trips hit me hard, so I try to avoid openings. I won’t necessarily give in to the guilt, but it will hang on me for a while.   
Dh and I both lean heavily on “I’m not sure. I should check with Spouse. I think they mentioned a thing, but I don’t remember the day/time.” 😁

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, Carrie12345 said:

Dh and I both lean heavily on “I’m not sure. I should check with Spouse. I think they mentioned a thing, but I don’t remember the day/time.” 😁

See, I hate that 🙂 Because it smacks of having to ask one's husband for permission to go out. 

[Carrie12345]

5 minutes ago, regentrude said:

See, I hate that 🙂 Because it smacks of having to ask one's husband for permission to go out. 

That’s on the listener, not on me! People I know well wouldn’t imagine me asking dh permission for anything, lol. But we do have busy schedules that are often in flux. It’s not unusual for me to know we have a fundraiser coming up that he hasn’t shared the specifics on, or for the kids to need a ride and he doesn’t remember the time.

[vonfirmath]

9 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

That’s on the listener, not on me! People I know well wouldn’t imagine me asking dh permission for anything, lol. But we do have busy schedules that are often in flux. It’s not unusual for me to know we have a fundraiser coming up that he hasn’t shared the specifics on, or for the kids to need a ride and he doesn’t remember the time.

Yep. I very much appreciate my husband checking with me because I keep a closer tab on the schedule for everyone than he is. And its just common courtesy to check --its not asking permission.  (and I wonder if the fear of "asking permission" sometimes causes less than stellar decisions to be made to avoid the appearance)

Edited November 15, 2021 by vonfirmath

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, livetoread said:

Now that my folks have entered their early 80s, they are much more worried about being an inconvenience. They aren't - nothing has changed really (so far so good) - but their perception of their own abilities is much more fragile. They know they are only going downhill from here, and they are reminded of it in so many little ways all the time, so I think they see the future and their dependency on me and worry. Communication has gotten more vague as their concerns have grown. It's hard.

Yes, this I think is what is going on.  When they had the car accident a year ago, they REALLY REALY were traumatized by how much they had to depnd on me and dh.  They are so grateful and express it all of the time....but I am sure it makes them feel....fragile is a good word I think.

[Scarlett]

33 minutes ago, regentrude said:

See, I hate that 🙂 Because it smacks of having to ask one's husband for permission to go out. 

Nah, just respectful of the person you live with/are married to.  Just to make sure he/she doesn't have plans that you have forgotten about.

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

This reminds me of our Japanese exchange student who told us it drove her CRAZY in her culture because when it came time for a group of friends/family to go out to dinner NO ONE would express a preference.  My dad, who is NOT Japanese, is also this way.  I mean, I often don't mind where we go, but I certainly will give suggestions. 

This used to happen in dh's family all the time.

Finally, dh got fed up with it. Someone would say, "Well, we could do this or that or this other thing... I don't know... I don't have a preference." And dh just started saying, "Great. THAT. Let's go. NOW." The first time he did it, it seemed so abrupt and it was clear that he'd chosen a restaurant that no one else (save us) really wanted. But they all just sat there and endured it. But! After doing it a few times, people got better at expressing preferences because they realized he was going to offer everyone a chance to have input once and if they said "whatever everyone else..." then he'd just decide by fiat and order them around. I don't necessarily suggest this approach, but hey, worked for dh's slightly passive aggressive family.

[Scarlett]

28 minutes ago, Farrar said:

This used to happen in dh's family all the time.

Finally, dh got fed up with it. Someone would say, "Well, we could do this or that or this other thing... I don't know... I don't have a preference." And dh just started saying, "Great. THAT. Let's go. NOW." The first time he did it, it seemed so abrupt and it was clear that he'd chosen a restaurant that no one else (save us) really wanted. But they all just sat there and endured it. But! After doing it a few times, people got better at expressing preferences because they realized he was going to offer everyone a chance to have input once and if they said "whatever everyone else..." then he'd just decide by fiat and order them around. I don't necessarily suggest this approach, but hey, worked for dh's slightly passive aggressive family.

This is similar to what we do to my dad.....who does not like  Chinese food

Us:  Where shall we eat?

Dad:  Anywhere is fine.

Us:  Great! Chinese it is

Dad:  Uh, ok how about the burger joint.  

LOL  works pretty well for him.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Scarlett

[Catwoman]

No advice here, but I just wanted to say that I kind of love @Scarlett‘s mom. She sounds so kind and sweet! 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I OVERstand.  I grew up in a culture where it's rude to inconvenience anyone if you can at all help it, but you should inconvenience yourself unless your dying.  I now live in a culture where direct communication and honesty is valued higher.  Switching back and forth can be tricky and I have a VERY strong preference for "just tell me what you're thinking." 

I can't help but feel that "Are you busy on x day?" is a trap.  I hate that question. My answer is "Hooker, I might be busy if you've got some nonsense in mind." I have a friend who will text me that, and I ALWAYS wait her out until she clarifies.  It's been anything from "Can you pick me up at the airport at midnight on Christmas Eve?" to "Can I drop off this thing for so-and-so to pick up at your house?"  I cannot answer her without knowing if we're going to dinner or if I'm speaking at her mother's funeral.  (NONE of these examples are made up.  I LOVE this friend, but she is all over the place with her requests.  She can take no for an answer without being grudgy, so she's a keeper.)

I just read your edit and I have to say this friend sounds quirky and cool.

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I just read your edit and I have to say this friend sounds quirky and cool.

She really is.  She's more like family . . . maddening but fun, and she'd do anything for me.

I rarely pick the restaurants.  I'm not picky, have no allergies, and can find something that makes me happy on every menu.  I usually let people with restrictions choose.  Howeeeeeeever . . . if they take too long I WILL make aggressive suggestions because I get hangry.

[Shoeless]

My DH kind of does this.

"Are you going to the store?" I mean, at some point this week, yes? Did you need something now? 

"What are you doing?" (When I am doing something really obvious, like laundry or vacuuming)  Did you need something, babe? I'm doing laundry.

It makes me nuts and I've had to accept this is just a quirk of his personality. I have no idea if it's a Texas culture thing or specific to his family culture or maybe both. I just take a breath and remind myself that his intention isn't to irritate me.

For what it's worth, he thinks I'm sometimes too blunt and reads my responses as snappish when I don't mean it that way at all. I grew up in NY and prefer to be direct.

[Hoggirl]

On the restaurant thing.  If someone asks me where I want to go, I will usually not offer a specific suggestion but will say what I am NOT keen on.  “I’m good with anything except burgers since dh grilled those for us last night.” Because I generally don’t care at all, but I don’t want to eat something or a type of something I’ve just recently eaten.

[Kassia]

17 minutes ago, Hoggirl said:

On the restaurant thing.  If someone asks me where I want to go, I will usually not offer a specific suggestion but will say what I am NOT keen on.  “I’m good with anything except burgers since dh grilled those for us last night.” Because I generally don’t care at all, but I don’t want to eat something or a type of something I’ve just recently eaten.

Oh, I love this and will have to remember for the future.