Vaccinated and Delta Variant

[Faith-manor]

My community fine arts program director job ended when the program was gutted due to covid, no donations coming in, less interest on the endowment. So believe me, I get it. I have a grandson recently diagnosed with a heart condition and too young to be vaxed. So my perspective is that I don't get to relax and just let nature take its course now that Mark and I and our adult children are vaccinated. If I am reckless and take covid to my grandson, I have lifelong sorrow to live with. No thanks.

I don't want the Detroit Symphony Orchestra to go under. Music has been my life! My first degrees were piano performance and music ed. But that does not, for me, take precedence over my grandson's well being. So once again we hunker down, use curbside pick up and drive through pharmacy, only very socially distanced outdoor activities with no crowds, and masking if we must go into a public place. We gave a generous donation to the DSO, bought tickets that we won't use for this upcoming season and donated them back for college students to get free, and have the member streaming service. We will turn the lights low, grab a mixed drink or glass of wine, and cuddle up on the couch to watch the concerts. It is the best we can do.

Now that said, the Detroit Institute of Arts has been an okay indoor destination because they were having people buy admission in advance to keep numbers low inside the building, strictly enforced mask policy, and had volunteers spaced around to enforce distancing all the while with upgraded hepa filter air filtration. I have been three times, that was wonderful! But, I never did it when we would be seeing our grandsons soon. It was go to the DIA and then hunker down for two weeks not even eating dinner with mother in law just to be extra careful.

One of the things I have planned is to drive the grandmothers around Tunnel off Trees, M-19 here in Michigan during the peak fall colors. We can enjoy the beauty and outdoors, and take picnic lunch and supper to eat along Lake Michigan. State and county park restrooms that do not look busy, fully masked, will be our only public indoor thing.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Faith-manor

[SKL]

They over-did it the first time, and now at least some political leaders have been stripped of the power to mandate masks.  So I don't know if they would mandate masks for Delta or not, given a clean slate.

I wish that the data re Delta could come in faster and clearer.  I do believe a majority of Americans would act rationally with enough useful information, but we don't have that.  We have some people freaking out over the sniffles and other people denying deaths and everything in between.

It really isn't fair for me to have an opinion on masking in elementary schools, since my kids attend an 8-12.  I never have believed that masking little kids was without costs.  So someone needs to make the case one way or the other.  And those who distribute information need to act responsibly, if that's not too ridiculous an expectation.

If I had to predict, I'd predict that our school system will listen to the CDC and state health department, who will probably recommend masking in elementary classrooms, unless & until case numbers decline past a certain level.

[melmichigan]

My IV infusions are life altering.  They decide if I walk or not right now, and how disabled I may become.  We don't have hospitals that just deal with covid and only covid.  I have just as hard a time with the "I'm vaccinated, enough is enough" as the "I'm not vaccinating, freedom" when inundated hospitals mean my life, and the lives of so many like me, get put on hold and potentially devastated because people can't follow simple public health measures. How the hell do you balance that?  Delta changed the game.

Edited August 5, 2021 by melmichigan

[mommyoffive]

4 minutes ago, SKL said:

They over-did it the first time, and now at least some political leaders have been stripped of the power to mandate masks.  So I don't know if they would mandate masks for Delta or not, given a clean slate.

I wish that the data re Delta could come in faster and clearer.  I do believe a majority of Americans would act rationally with enough useful information, but we don't have that.  We have some people freaking out over the sniffles and other people denying deaths and everything in between.

It really isn't fair for me to have an opinion on masking in elementary schools, since my kids attend an 8-12.  I never have believed that masking little kids was without costs.  So someone needs to make the case one way or the other.  And those who distribute information need to act responsibly, if that's not too ridiculous an expectation.

If I had to predict, I'd predict that our school system will listen to the CDC and state health department, who will probably recommend masking in elementary classrooms, unless & until case numbers decline past a certain level.

This is what has happened in my state.  The news said that the gov. said his hands are tied.  I would believe he would want a mask mandate but it got struck down in the state's supreme court.

[Sneezyone]

11 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

This is what has happened in my state.  The news said that the gov. said his hands are tied.  I would believe he would want a mask mandate but it got struck down in the state's supreme court.

My mom, sister, and niece (too young for vax) live in a state where the Governor signed a law doing this. Fortunately, my adult family work for the feds (so masks are required) and my niece is in private care. Now, three months later, gov changed his mind, regrets his choice to sign the law, and blames a leg that would have overridden his veto. BS. He caved to idiocy then and now sees the error of his ways. I can’t with these people. He’s counting on the leg to repeal the law and/or state Supreme Court to invalidate it. No one this stupid should be leading a Cub Scout troop. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Faith-manor]

2 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

This is what has happened in my state.  The news said that the gov. said his hands are tied.  I would believe he would want a mask mandate but it got struck down in the state's supreme court.

Our state legislature, mostly made of misogynistic pricks who would never have done the same thing to a male governor, passed legislation to strip her of all emergency powers. So much for the state. She won't be able to do a damn thing, not even in the event of tornado devastation and such. Sigh. And the thing was, none of her orders were anymore restrictive than BeShear, DeWine, etc.at the beginning. As a matter of fact, due to interstate travel, jobs, trades etc. the governors of Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Kentucky all worked together during the lockdown to have similar policies and a restrictions so it would be similar for everyone living on the border and working in another state, for interstate trucking, and for handing together to find PPE and such. Yet, because she wad a she, the hate was intense while those male governors never got the same level of heat from people who were mad about restrictions, lockdowns, changing rules, wishwashy messaging, etc.

So they will reap what they sow because the next disaster that hits, they can sit around and wait for a ridiculous body of arguing idiots to spend 30 days measuring their genitalia and grandstanding before finally making a decision. That should be fun! 😠

[SKL]

7 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Our state legislature, mostly made of misogynistic pricks who would never have done the same thing to a male governor, passed legislation to strip her of all emergency powers. So much for the state. She won't be able to do a damn thing, not even in the event of tornado devastation and such. Sigh. And the thing was, none of her orders were anymore restrictive than BeShear, DeWine, etc.at the beginning. As a matter of fact, due to interstate travel, jobs, trades etc. the governors of Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Kentucky all worked together during the lockdown to have similar policies and a restrictions so it would be similar for everyone living on the border and working in another state, for interstate trucking, and for handing together to find PPE and such. Yet, because she wad a she, the hate was intense while those male governors never got the same level of heat from people who were mad about restrictions, lockdowns, changing rules, wishwashy messaging, etc.

So they will reap what they sow because the next disaster that hits, they can sit around and wait for a ridiculous body of arguing idiots to spend 30 days measuring their genitalia and grandstanding before finally making a decision. That should be fun! 😠

Male governors got the same (at least some of them).

[Faith-manor]

Just now, SKL said:

Male governors got the same (at least some of them).

Not these particular ones that she worked with. Yes Newsome and what not. I am taking specifically about the cohort of five, Great Lakes/Midwest governors who formed their alliance in March, 2020.

[Roadrunner]

50 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The thing is, opening theaters and performance halls doesn't mean people are going to flood back. And widespread disease transmission is going to deter attendance. We are a theater going family. In the before times, DH and I loved a good concert. When broadway reopened, I plopped a hefty chunk on primo seats. We haven't and won't attend anything tho unless/until we can manage this disease. NYC seems about the safest option right now because ALL audience members must be masked and show proof of vax to gain admittance. Some states/localities are showing a flat out hostility to making ANY effort to do just that. So, yeah, as a performer...perform away...but where's the audience gonna come from (not just now, but in the future if they literally die off)?

Our local concert series was sold out. We all had to wear mask and show vaccine proofs. It was awesome! 

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Not these particular ones that she worked with. Yes Newsome and what not. I am taking specifically about the cohort of five, Great Lakes/Midwest governors who formed their alliance in March, 2020.

DeWine was stripped of powers to do what he did.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

Our local concert series was sold out. We all had to wear mask and show vaccine proofs. It was awesome! 

This really is ideal, IMO, b/c I WANT to support the arts. I LOVE the arts but I don’t want to take unreasonable risks to do so.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Sneezyone

[TexasProud]

4 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Our local concert series was sold out. We all had to wear mask and show vaccine proofs. It was awesome! 

And that is AWESOME!!! I am all for that.  I am even for concerts if numbers are low with masks and social distancing if you are not vaccinated.  My problem is numbers are sky high right now. Concerts have no masks and no social distancing. That just doesn't make sense to me. Believe me, I have given several donations to the arts programs here recently.  I want them to continue.  

[Sneezyone]

This is probably a spin-off question/issue so feel free to ignore but has anyone else seen states/employers struggling with recruitment as a result of COVID? 

A recent Blue Star families survey is being heavily promoted asking about race, racism and command climate WRT orders/promotions but didn’t take into account or ask about local ideology in any other way. That was a mistake/missed opportunity (and an indication that the people making the survey didn’t fully understand their target audience). There is some overlap, but not exactly. They asked why/whether we would/would not accept orders to some places b/c racial issues but didn’t ask about the way some issues illuminate other mismatches that impact family lives for the worse. COVID is one of those. People lucky enough to live in more circumspect/vaccinated communities will enjoy a completely different school/work experience next year and to the extent that we can control whether we relocate as a family vs DH alone, those decisions have been impacted by statewide COVID responses.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Sneezyone

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

There were a lot of people who really believed the vaccine would make them never catch Covid and be unable to spread that, when instead the CDC should have been emphasizing that it would reduce your own personal illness and death. 

To be fair, this was accurate before Delta came around. The vaccine was incredibly effective at preventing disease and transmission pre-delta. Now it’s like we have a new disease. Fortunately, the previous vaccines are still highly protective against illness and death. (I fear If we don’t get transmission rates down, we’ll have something much worse eventually.)

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

So I think vaccinated folks should mask as appropriate and move on with their lives. We are a music family. All vaccinated. Enough is enough. 

This would be so much more doable if there weren’t so many places with abysmal vaccination rates. That is what prevents us from moving on. There is too much illness still out there, too much transmission, too much overwhelm of the healthcare system. It’s very frustrating, because it doesn’t have to be this bad right now, even as bad as delta is. 

58 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I know someone whose (grown, 60s) brother could not get vaccinated because he had an adverse reaction to a prior vaccine.  He died of the variant last week.  His wife, who did get vaccinated, still caught it and had to be treated in the hospital rather than at home.  

This is an aside, but has anyone else noticed it seems an unusual number of couples where both of them are severely affected? It makes sense with the cases like that in genetic families, but I wonder what is causing that with married couples? Perhaps something about the particular variation or viral load they both catch?

[Roadrunner]

14 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

This really is ideal, IMO, b/c I WANT to support the arts. I LOVE the arts but I don’t want to take unreasonable risks to do so.

But nobody is making you. 
But those of us who want to take risks should have a right to do so with reasonable precautions. 

[mommyoffive]

I just read this

Covid Delta Variant Safety: Your Questions Answered - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, mommyoffive said:

I just read this

Covid Delta Variant Safety: Your Questions Answered - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Can you summarize. Have to pay to read. 

Does it answer this question.  I know they were saying that if you were vaccinated and you were exposed, you did not need to quarantine. Is that still true?

So there was a major exposure that I know of several people are out in large crowds and doing all normal stuff unmasked. Now they are vaccinated and may be following protocol. But it feels like that is part of the reason why the numbers are skyrocketing. 

[Syllieann]

The vaccinated people in my home (me, dh, ods) are pretty much back to normal.  My healthy 8&10 year olds are restricted on their indoor activities.  For outdoor stuff, we choose only the things that we value and within that we do some things to try to mitigate risk.  If my kids don't get infected that's great, but I'm mostly resigned to the fact that they are likely to become infected before they can be vaccinated and just trying to keep the inoculum as low as I can to reduce severity.  The rest of us are over masking and distancing as a means to protect people who refuse to protect themselves.  I don't really care anymore, and I'm sure the immunocompromised would prefer to be able come back out sooner (letting it tear through the unvaccinated who aren't masking/distancing) rather than drag this out 9 more months.

I do think school without masks will be bad, but the parents here here have had their way and they don't want masks.  Glad my kids aren't in school.  I feel for the kids who are immunocompromised, but again, get it over with so they can get back in the classroom sooner.

[mommyoffive]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

Can you summarize. Have to pay to read. 

Does it answer this question.  I know they were saying that if you were vaccinated and you were exposed, you did not need to quarantine. Is that still true?

So there was a major exposure that I know of several people are out in large crowds and doing all normal stuff unmasked. Now they are vaccinated and may be following protocol. But it feels like that is part of the reason why the numbers are skyrocketing. 

 As a result, every vaccinated person should consider a safety checklist to help minimize the risk of becoming infected and spreading the virus to others.

Am I sure the people I’m with are vaccinated? Are they symptom-free?

What are the vaccination and case count rates in my community?

What is my risk, and the risk of those around me, for complications of Covid-19?

We asked the experts 10 questions about how vaccinated people should adjust their lives and behaviors during the Delta surge. Here are their answers.

 

 

New Guidance for the Vaccinated

If I’m vaccinated, why do I need to worry about Delta?

What’s the real risk of a breakthrough infection after vaccination?

When should I wear a mask?

Should I upgrade my mask?

What’s the risk of hanging out with my vaccinated friends and family?

Can I still dine at restaurants?

Is it safe to travel? Should I skip the peanuts and water and keep my mask on?

How safe are buses, subways and trains for vaccinated people?

Can I hug and visit older relatives? What about unvaccinated children?

How do I know if I have the Delta variant?

[Danae]

8 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Can you summarize. Have to pay to read. 

Does it answer this question.  I know they were saying that if you were vaccinated and you were exposed, you did not need to quarantine. Is that still true?

So there was a major exposure that I know of several people are out in large crowds and doing all normal stuff unmasked. Now they are vaccinated and may be following protocol. But it feels like that is part of the reason why the numbers are skyrocketing. 

Summary:  Vaccines are effective in reducing spread, even with Delta.  But reducing is not eliminating, so other things to lower your risk of catching and spreading are still helpful.  Mask in large crowds and indoors with people of unknown vax status.  Risk is vastly different in different parts of the U.S. depending on level of community spread, but if counties adjacent to yours are high spread your county probably will be soon because viruses don’t respect lines on a map. 

[TexasProud]

Ok, so can someone answer this question:

I know they were saying that if you were vaccinated and you were exposed, you did not need to quarantine. Is that still true?

So there was a major exposure. Several people that were exposed  are out in large crowds and doing all normal stuff unmasked. Now they are vaccinated and may be following protocol. But it feels like that is part of the reason why the numbers are skyrocketing. 

[SKL]

29 minutes ago, KSera said:

This is an aside, but has anyone else noticed it seems an unusual number of couples where both of them are severely affected? It makes sense with the cases like that in genetic families, but I wonder what is causing that with married couples? Perhaps something about the particular variation or viral load they both catch?

I have often wondered about this.  Though I don't know how common it actually is.  I think it may just be considered more newsworthy than situations where one person got it bad and the others were less affected or unsymptomatic.

[Danae]

7 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Ok, so can someone answer this question:

I know they were saying that if you were vaccinated and you were exposed, you did not need to quarantine. Is that still true?

So there was a major exposure. Several people that were exposed  are out in large crowds and doing all normal stuff unmasked. Now they are vaccinated and may be following protocol. But it feels like that is part of the reason why the numbers are skyrocketing. 

The CDC page on quarantine and isolation was updated on July 29.  It still says you do not have to quarantine if you are fully vaccinated and not experiencing symptoms.

Edit:  but you are supposed to test 3-5 days after exposure and wear a mask indoors in public spaces until you get the result or for 14 days after exposure if you don’t test.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Danae

[TexasProud]

9 minutes ago, Danae said:

The CDC page on quarantine and isolation was updated on July 29.  It still says you do not have to quarantine if you are fully vaccinated and not experiencing symptoms.

Edit:  but you are supposed to test 3-5 days after exposure and wear a mask indoors in public spaces until you get the result or for 14 days after exposure if you don’t test.

Ok. They all took a rapid test that was negative, though it wasn't 3 days after. It was more like everyone at the camp tested the day after they got home once they found out about the person.  Several did test positive.. But it feels like the rest of them should be testing today or tomorrow to get an accurate representation. Once they got the negative rapid test, the resumed their vacations and such.

[Danae]

13 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Ok. They all took a rapid test that was negative, though it wasn't 3 days after. It was more like everyone at the camp tested the day after they got home once they found out about the person.  Several did test positive.. But it feels like the rest of them should be testing today or tomorrow to get an accurate representation. Once they got the negative rapid test, the resumed their vacations and such.

“Feels like” is not a good indicator here.  If they tested and got a negative result they are following the guidelines. 

[TexasProud]

10 minutes ago, Danae said:

“Feels like” is not a good indicator here.  If they tested and got a negative result they are following the guidelines. 

They tested one day after learning of exposure.

But really that goes to my point anyway. The guidelines need to be changed. Things like this are fueling the numbers. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by TexasProud

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

This really is ideal, IMO, b/c I WANT to support the arts. I LOVE the arts but I don’t want to take unreasonable risks to do so.

I think masks + vaccines is the way to go till at least the Delta wave has passed.  Without Delta, I would have said vax was enough, but yeah, things changed.  The virus changed. It sucks.

Unfortunately it seems a lot of places are not only not doing both, but neither.  😒

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Our state legislature, mostly made of misogynistic pricks who would never have done the same thing to a male governor, passed legislation to strip her of all emergency powers. So much for the state. She won't be able to do a damn thing, not even in the event of tornado devastation and such. Sigh. And the thing was, none of her orders were anymore restrictive than BeShear, DeWine, etc.at the beginning. As a matter of fact, due to interstate travel, jobs, trades etc. the governors of Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Kentucky all worked together during the lockdown to have similar policies and a restrictions so it would be similar for everyone living on the border and working in another state, for interstate trucking, and for handing together to find PPE and such. Yet, because she wad a she, the hate was intense while those male governors never got the same level of heat from people who were mad about restrictions, lockdowns, changing rules, wishwashy messaging, etc.

I think she got worse treatment for being female, but I disagree that her orders were the same. MI had much stricter definitions of what is an essential business than OH did, IIRC. People were unable to do things like get seeds for their gardens or visit even outdoor plant nurseries, none of which happened here. But I could be remembering wrongly.

***ETA: DeWine put the onus on businesses to justify why they were essential, so how it played out is that they could open and justify it if called out. In the meantime, IIRC, he set up some kind of committee that was made up of business people to make recommendations for what is essential, how masking and distancing could work in specific industries, etc. So, he tried to be super responsive from the very beginning to avoid shutting down more than was absolutely necessary. He also avoided making masks mandated until he felt he had to--he appealed to people's common sense and concern for others, and they did not meet his expectations. If he had done it earlier, I think he'd have lost all his powers even earlier, and he knew it.

I don't know of attempts to kidnap DeWine, but locally, people were and still are pretty hateful about him. They did unmasked protests at his personal residence (vs. the governor's mansion) late at night with noisemakers and all kinds of stuff, but otherwise, I think they made their moves legislatively. We're the home of a lot of the conspiracy theories (Douglas Frank, Jim Jordan, etc.). 

1 hour ago, SKL said:

DeWine was stripped of powers to do what he did.

Yes, and like in MI, it affects future disasters of all kinds, not just disease-related disasters. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by kbutton

[Pam in CT]

re COVID 2020 "balance" vs COVID Delta "balance"

4 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

I think the reality of delta will soon be unarguable. 🥲,,,

Agreed.  A year ago, we were at the national / macro level trying to "balance" public health/ hospital overwhelm/ high death toll v faltering economy/ significant difficulties with online school.  At the household/ micro level were were trying to "balance" concern for the health of our own members / extended loved ones / vulnerable community members v a range of difficulties ranging from cabin fever restlessness to substantial mental health issues to simple economic imperatives forcing family members to engage in COVID-risky environments.  And the tools we had to effect that balance were seriously limited: masks, spacing, decisions about outdoor-only.

We're in a different place now.  So long as hospitals are not overwhelmed, health care workers now have better tools to treat COVID, ranging from simple and comparatively low-cost protocols about patient positioning to the (still-limited) antibody cocktails and other treatments.  And of course we have the vaccines, which shift the "balance" at both the macro and micro levels.  Delta is driving community spread everywhere, but thus far transmission seems pretty clearly inversely related to community vaccination: in the highest-vaxxed states (VT, MA, CT, WDC, ME, RI) is still <60-125 new daily cases per 100K population; while new daily cases in the lowest-vaxxed states (MS, AL, ID, WY, LA) are 200-1000+ per 100K population.

The power of the new vaccine tool is even more marked at the individual / household level: while not all states are reporting hospitalization and death data by vaccination statues yet, KFF is collating those that do, and it's pretty clear that the our odds of avoiding hospitalization and death -- even with Delta, which evolved after the vaccines were developed -- are vastly improved for the vaccinated:

 

So balancing COVID Delta this summer is different than balancing COVID 2020 a year ago.  Nonetheless, it comes down to many of the same decision drivers:

3 hours ago, Hyacinth said:

I think this is going to be an ongoing question for everyone, just as it has been for the past year and a half.

Some people will have a higher tolerance for risk than others.  also some of us are focused on the risk of DISEASE ITSELF, vs risk of TRANSMISSION TO LOVED ONES, vs risk of VACCINE SIDE EFFECTS.

Some people will prioritize physical/mental/social/emotional needs differently than others.  also some of us are emotionally / mentally anxious about DISEASE ITSELF vs effects of isolation vs the more long term existential state of how COVID has affected the nation / uncertainly about the future

Some people will be more obnoxious about their choices than others. Sigh

There is no single right answer that guarantees health and well-being for any one individual nor any community nor the world at large. 

And that's frustrating, I know.

 

My husband and I got our first shot the DAY our age cohort was eligible. I wept tears of relief and once fully immunized I felt just like Wonder Woman.  BACK into my mother's apartment!  BACK to inviting people over to dinner!  BACK into Trader Joes!  BACK into restaurants!  BACK to (slightly circumscribed) roadtrips!  There were still adjustments -- it took months before my kids were eligible, I never got to comfortable with crowds or air travel, I still advocated for slow re-opening of our synagogue in recognition that younger kids were still unvaxxed.  But we loosened up a LOT, as did our (all vaxxed) friends and family.

And now, week by week, we're dialing back. As is the community around me (my state is the 3rd highest-vax state; and my county is the highest-vaxxed county; cases here are back to where we were in early May -- up tenfold from our lowest point in early June, sigh... but as noted above still low in adjusted-for-per-capita terms compared to nearly all other states).

3 hours ago, MEmama said:

In my corner, I’m seeing a LOT more masking again. Compliance was near 100% when we had a mandate but fell off throughout the summer when it was removed and summer people and tourists returned. The two places I went this past week had 50-70% mask wearing again; by the time school starts back up I expect it will be closer to 90%. People are clearly paying attention to delta here.

Also, our state university system declared last spring that they wouldn’t mandate COVID vaccines until FDA approval. With the delta surge just beginning, they have updated their policy and now will require vaccinations for all students and staff on campus. All over I’m seeing businesses require proof of vaccination, both for employees and for customers. This is a direct response to delta.

Here as well.

And many vaccinated people, myself included, have dialed back from restaurant dining to outdoors-only, from gleeful rushing into retail stores to essential-errand-only.  Once my university-aged kids return to school I'm going back to deliveries and open air farmers' market only.

Grrrrrrr.

 

And, fortunately, my area is also NOT experiencing hospital overwhelm.  (We were among the very early hot spots, back in March-April 2020. NOBODY wants to go there again.)

3 hours ago, MEmama said:

..Remember that vaccinations are all about keeping hospitalizations and deaths down, not about never ever getting sick. Unfortunately many parts of this country are experiencing the hospital overwhelm that vaccines are designed to prevent. In areas with high vax rates, the overwhelm isn’t happening. 

 

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

...the unvaccinated are taking up a large number of ICU beds right now that could otherwise be free.

My dad had a health emergency during a medical procedure last week that led to a week long hospitalization. He is vaccinated and his illness is not covid-related, but his hospital also is over capacity, as are all hospitals within a 6 hour radius of him because he lives in a largely unvaccinated area. My uncle had a stroke last week, also complicated in finding a free bed. People are dying mid-transport or are having life-altering treatment delayed. I *do* get to voice frustration about that. Others’ choices are impacting me and mine.

Indeed. 

2 hours ago, melmichigan said:

My IV infusions are life altering.  They decide if I walk or not right now, and how disabled I may become.  We don't have hospitals that just deal with covid and only covid.  I have just as hard a time with the "I'm vaccinated, enough is enough" as the "I'm not vaccinating, freedom" when inundated hospitals mean my life, and the lives of so many like me, get put on hold and potentially devastated because people can't follow simple public health measures. How the hell do you balance that?  Delta changed the game.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Jaybee said:

That's us. We are all vaccinated. If boosters are recommended, we will take them. I am just now starting to wear a mask again in a few places, but probably will not wear one everywhere. We have done some traveling to visit our families, and I am, in fact, flying back home this weekend. One of the reasons I have been masking again is that I don't want covid to prevent me from going home. I am not comfortable in large crowds anyway. So we are doing what we consider to be the most helpful in preventing catching it. But we are not going to quarantine ourselves unless we know we have been exposed. One ds, in particular, will not take precautions, and we know that. So his vaccination will pretty much be it as far as his protection.

This type of balancing act is what we're trying to do as well. Our circumstances are a little different, our priorities are a little different, so our particular fulcrum is a little different.  But this is the basic balancing act we're all going for.  And doing it under Delta is different than doing it a year ago. 

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

The thing is, opening theaters and performance halls doesn't mean people are going to flood back. And widespread disease transmission is going to deter attendance. We are a theater going family. In the before times, DH and I loved a good concert. When broadway reopened, I plopped a hefty chunk on primo seats. We haven't and won't attend anything tho unless/until we can manage this disease. NYC seems about the safest option right now because ALL audience members must be masked and show proof of vax to gain admittance. Some states/localities are showing a flat out hostility to making ANY effort to do just that. So, yeah, as a performer...perform away...but where's the audience gonna come from (not just now, but in the future if they literally die off)?

Theater is a concrete example of something I really really really HOPED to be doing by September that, due to Delta, I will not be doing in September.

Sigh.

 

[Longtime Lurker]

4 hours ago, TexasProud said:

But they got vaccinated to protect others, but now it feels like I would be telling them you did it for nothing. You can still spread it, so even though you did it to live normal life it was useless because not enough people did it.  

Getting vaccinated still protects others. Vaccinated people are less likely to contract covid, and they can only spread it if they have it.

[MEmama]

I guess we (me, DS and DH) never really changed our behavior after getting vaccinated. We were all thankful to get our vaccines as soon as we were eligible, but I never had that superpower feeling. If anything I felt a huge surge of sadness, because although vaccination was one more layer of protection, I strongly sensed it wasn’t enough. The day after I was vaccinated was the hardest, darkest day emotionally that I’ve had since this began.

We continued to mask. We continued to limit going in public. While I did start to visit again with a friend I hadn’t seen since November, we only meet outside and try not to hug too much. We haven’t eaten inside a restaurant, and won’t eat outdoors if it’s too busy. DH still works from home, I haven’t gotten a new job yet. It’s summer 2020 v2 for us, just with a little less trepidation. I expect winter will look the same. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by MEmama

[mathnerd]

5 hours ago, TexasProud said:

But they got vaccinated to protect others, but now it feels like I would be telling them you did it for nothing. You can still spread it, so even though you did it to live normal life it was useless because not enough people did it.  

If I were you, I would not be telling them what they should be doing.

Being vaccinated prevents most people from dying of Delta. This means that they decreased their chances of infection, increased their odds of surviving an infection and they will not overwhelm our health care system. So, these people, who I assume are going around not masking, did a good deed by vaccinating. It is wrong to call it useless. 

[TexasProud]

4 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

If I were you, I would not be telling them what they should be doing.

Being vaccinated prevents most people from dying of Delta. This means that they decreased their chances of infection, increased their odds of surviving an infection and they will not overwhelm our health care system. So, these people, who I assume are going around not masking, did a good deed by vaccinating. It is wrong to call it useless. 

LOL, I am not saying anything. I am conflict avoidant.  Yes, they did something but  they are also probably spreading it right now. 

[JennyD]

3 hours ago, Syllieann said:

Glad my kids aren't in school. 

I have never been so glad that we homeschool as I have been over the past 16 months.  I count our blessings every single day.

[regentrude]

3 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Ok. They all took a rapid test that was negative, though it wasn't 3 days after. It was more like everyone at the camp tested the day after they got home once they found out about the person.  Several did test positive.. But it feels like the rest of them should be testing today or tomorrow to get an accurate representation. Once they got the negative rapid test, the resumed their vacations and such.

 

3 hours ago, TexasProud said:

They tested one day after learning of exposure...Things like this are fueling the numbers. 

No. These are people who have a pretty high degree of Covid diligence: they got vaccinated and they bothered getting tested once they learned they had been exposed. 
There is never "perfect". But this is already pretty darn good, and you're entering the realm of diminishing return while here's a lot of low-hanging fruit:  what is fueling the numbers are the vast numbers of people who would do neither of the above, who deny that Covid is a threat, who don't test after exposure. Worrying about vaccinated folks who tested negative a day before the ideal point in time is energy not well spent.

 

[mommyoffive]

Are crowds safe as delta variant spreads? Experts explain COVID risks at common gatherings (msn.com)