The Homeschooling Cult

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I have never encountered that sort of attitude amg any group, but I have been around Catholuc homeschoolers who hold the attitude that if you dont use Seton or another prepackaged Catholic provider, you arent Catholic homeschooling. I just roll my eyes. Whatever. I dont have time for such nonsensical perspectives and dont even give them a second thought.

I have been around them in the sense of seeing publications or blogs by people like that.  But I actively avoid them so it's never more than a glance before I'm moving on to more thoughtful pastures. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

That sort of thing is more indicative of belonging to Christian (or other groups) that are less focused on providing Biblical (or philosophical) principles and instead pressuring people to use the same applications of principles whether the application actually applies or not.  So you can have a principle of providing an education but different applications of how that education might look for different families and individuals.  Quite often this happens in religious groups but it can also happen in groups like Waldorf etc. 

Thinking about this thread a lot today.  You also get this "paint by numbers" approach when people don't really understand the "whys" behind something.  It actually drives me a bit nuts when people talk about an approach like Charlotte Mason's educational philosophy and dumb it down to doing narrations in a mechanical manner or nature study in a prescribed way without ever understanding that her whole philosophy was built upon understanding and interacting with IDEAS and not on the specific application of a book narration or a nature walk.  Sure, those things are good but if you don't understand the "whys" behind them, they are no more beneficial than any other activity.  All of this stuff is superficial and uses no critical thinking skills and in my opinion, you need critical thinking skills to really teach kids in a meaningful way. 

[RootAnn]

I remember when my kids were all little & a new acquaintance was talking about how she felt like she had to send one of her kids to high school because there were just no other kids his age to befriend. I didn't really get it until my eldest hit a certain age & felt like she had no friends.

We had tried many things to help with the friend issue  (which I think is what you refer to as "socializing"). Every kid is different & what I've found is that I can't fix everything. My eldest finally found her social group in college. I'm not sure if my #2 ever will. My middle kid is in the depths of no-friend-land but my biggest problem isn't homeschooling--it's that we live in a tiny town in farm country & there just aren't that many kids in the available friendship pool, homeschooled, public-schooled, or private-schooled.

[daijobu]

I was researching homeschooling when my kids were in preschool, and I got very excited about it.  I was sharing how great homeschooling is with the other preschool moms, and they all nodded and smiled at me.  I thought they were all on board.  

I was genuinely surprised when none of the other moms joined me in homeschooling their kids.  Hilarious to think about it now, SMH.  

[madteaparty]

I’m not a fan of homeschooling. It’s actually against my values, this intense personalization of child raising, very bourgeois. My Dd reminds me daily she’d rather be in school. If I could find a school to put my kids into, I would. But I haven’t so I don’t. 

[Roadrunner]

10 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

I guess if I could send my daughter to a school which had good supervision, lots of unstructured play and outdoor time, allowed her to follow her interests and yet gave her a good foundation in all the essentials (including an excellent math education), while progressing at precisely her pace, I'd send her to school. 

I feel like that's a completely unreasonable set of requirements, though. 

I will make your list smaller. 
If I could find one that will give mine reasonably good foundations in all essentials, I would gladly hand them over. I guess it’s the definition of “reasonably good foundations” that seems to be a mismatch between my family and whatever we find available and affordable to us. I don’t think my set of expectations is unreasonable. 

[8filltheheart]

I guess this is where I am an outsider (and maybe this goes to being in ""aging and dated"  homeschooling cohort.) The last several posts reflect why.....bc the conversation is about "school."  Homeschooling isn't school for us.  Homeschooling is our lifestyle.  Academics is just part of what we do.  I am not sure there is a clearly delineated place where academics ends and ???? regular daily life ??? begins.

[8filltheheart]

1 minute ago, square_25 said:

 

I mean, I agree with that statement, but I also miss having more time for creative projects. If I could find other people who could teach my kids everything just as well as I can, I can imagine making this trade off. It's just I don't expect that to ever happen. 

I go through seasons where I can relate to that, but those times are definitely in the minority.  I love being around my kids and the family life and calendar freedom we have bc we homeschool. Not sure this is the thread to talk about it, though.  

[Roadrunner]

nm

Edited February 1, 2020 by Roadrunner

[madteaparty]

22 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

My extremely extroverted and somewhat difficult kids would really thrive in a classroom environment if I could find one. I would love to be able to focus on other bits (extracurriculars and being a mom in general).

I could see how a different set of kids could lead me to different thoughts.

Overall, I am exhausted. 

My kid thrived in a school environment where she spoke maybe two words of the language. I mean it was just such a positive  experience for her both in terms of an amazing teacher and just lovely peers. But we still had to afterschool math 😉 

i thought this was the entire point of this thread. If you’re ideologically on board with homeschooling either as a lifestyle or way to educate, and you can afford to do so, then it’s easy. It’s when homeschooling seems the least bad of all options and a pretty extreme choice even as you’re opting for it year after year that it gets confusing. 

[Roadrunner]

nm

Edited February 1, 2020 by Roadrunner

[Shoeless]

 

On 1/29/2020 at 10:31 AM, shinyhappypeople said:

So... just to clarify.  I'm not anti-homeschooling.  And this forum is not representative of the mindset I'm talking about at all, which is why it's safer to rant about it here than on one of the many homeschool fb groups I belong to.  If you want to meet some true believers join a homeschooling group on fb.  The mindless, thoughtless encouragement for homeschooling in train wreck situations is prolific. 

 

First thing you can do to feel better and get clarity about your homeschooling/flex-schooling choices is to unfollow (or better yet, leave), all those facebook groups. They can be very militant in their perspective on homeschooling.  No matter what you do, there is a fb group to tell you in great detail how you are doing it wrong. 

[Momto6inIN]

15 hours ago, madteaparty said:

It’s actually against my values, this intense personalization of child raising, very bourgeois.

I don't understand this, can you please explain?

[goldenecho]

On 1/29/2020 at 3:15 PM, Sneezyone said:

Anecdotes abound. That is a given. My situation is but one. I neither lacked a plan while homeschooling nor failed to think I was (in fact or in practice) incapable of teaching my children at home. Still, my plans were meaningless in the face of kids who needed different things. For one child, that was social interaction, for the other, it was peer-pressure (the positive kind). My heart practically burst when my DSs teacher declared at his PTS conference...”Please send me more students like this. You did a great job!” I’m still a SAH parent. I still carpool, attend all the events, and cater the team meals, etc. I STILL know my kids and their strengths, weaknesses, and needs. IMO, dogma should always yield to reality. 

I can really relate.   When I sent my child back to school I was so scared of the judgement.   My child was behind, but he also has some issues that made it harder for him.   They wouldn't see the immense struggle we went through to get him to the place where he was ready and able to learn (not breaking down crying every day like in KG, and like every time we tried to do anything related to school with him for a while after that).  They wouldn't see how it took years to build his confidence and help him believe he could do this.   I was so scared all they would see is how far behind he was, and blame me and homeschooling for it.

And then, his spec-ed teacher told us what a good job we did with him and I just about cried. 

 
 

[maize]

16 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I guess this is where I am an outsider (and maybe this goes to being in ""aging and dated"  homeschooling cohort.) The last several posts reflect why.....bc the conversation is about "school."  Homeschooling isn't school for us.  Homeschooling is our lifestyle.  Academics is just part of what we do.  I am not sure there is a clearly delineated place where academics ends and ???? regular daily life ??? begins.

I see academics as one strand of a whole pattern that is life, all very interwoven. If all necessary parts of the whole can be achieved at home--and my impression is that you do this very well with your family--and the family are happy with this pattern of life I think it is a good pattern. I think there can be other good patterns as well; probably you agree with that as you have acknowledged that your pattern isn't going to be best for everyone.

When I have sent a child to school it has been as part of the whole pattern of our lives when there were needs that were just not being met at home--not necessarily academic. School isn't just academics, and is also part of regular life--different from homeschool certainly, but a part of the overall pattern.

Can't say I find it to be an unstressful part, but then the home parts aren't unstressful either; I never really feel like I am managing to meet all my family's needs no matter what I do.

That isn't, by the way, a complaint. I find the life I am living challenging in ways I could never have imagined, but I also find a great deal of joy in raising my children and trying to help them develop and spread their wings.

[8filltheheart]

8 hours ago, mms said:

But, it is not an option for “us” and we have the resources to make that work. I would get extremely irritated if the pressure to continue homeschooling came from an external source amidst all the other challenges I had to deal with. As it is, even my most pro-homeschooling friends were extremely supportive of whatever route our family had to take. I am sorry, OP, that you don’t have that sort of community.

I agree completely.  

 

8 minutes ago, maize said:

I see academics as one strand of a whole pattern that is life, all very interwoven. If all necessary parts of the whole can be achieved at home--and my impression is that you do this very well with your family--and the family are happy with this pattern of life I think it is a good pattern. I think there can be other good patterns as well; probably you agree with that as you have acknowledged that your pattern isn't going to be best for everyone.

When I have sent a child to school it has been as part of the whole pattern of our lives when there were needs that were just not being met at home--not necessarily academic. School isn't just academics, and is also part of regular life--different from homeschool certainly, but a part of the overall pattern.

Can't say I find it to be an unstressful part, but then the home parts aren't unstressful either; I never really feel like I am managing to meet all my family's needs no matter what I do.

That isn't, by the way, a complaint. I find the life I am living challenging in ways I could never have imagined, but I also find a great deal of joy in raising my children and trying to help them develop and spread their wings.

I agree and wasn't suggesting otherwise. 

My thoughts when I posted were more along the lines that today's conversations on this forum and amg homeschoolers in general are about classes and dominated by the flex-schooling/outsourcing perspective--"what classes do your students take where, what provider is the best for,  what co-op do you belong to, etc."  It is fundamentally a different starting place and different mindset focused more on subjects being completed outside of a traditional school setting vs. homeschooling as a lifestyle.  Since homeschooling is a single term encompassing vastly different approaches, every poster's use of the term reflects something slightly different.  But, at the same time, flex-schooling has shifted to be the norm.  So, posts in general reflect that underlying interpretation of the word when it is posted/read, etc.  

[lewelma]

On 1/31/2020 at 5:18 PM, 8FillTheHeart said:

I guess this is where I am an outsider (and maybe this goes to being in ""aging and dated"  homeschooling cohort.) The last several posts reflect why.....bc the conversation is about "school."  Homeschooling isn't school for us.  Homeschooling is our lifestyle.  Academics is just part of what we do.  I am not sure there is a clearly delineated place where academics ends and ???? regular daily life ??? begins.

I've been at homeschool camp this past week and had a friend say, "School is superfluous to our lifestyle."

This explains our situation exactly. It is not that we avoid or reject school; instead, we live a life where school is not required.  There is no dichotomy, nor is there some sliding scale. There is just life, and our family culture celebrates learning as a team and engaging in thoughtful introspection on many subjects. We do not focus on external requirements created by the state, nor do we try to replicate school or 'keep up.' We follow our own path with a desire for self improvement in many areas of life, not just academics.

Ruth in NZ

[Momto6inIN]

6 hours ago, parent said:

Our kids are very confident and happy, and I think it is largely from the amount of interaction they have with their parents. 

This x 1000

I also think it has to do with how much free time they have to pursue their own ideas vs always being involved in adult directed activities. SWB just posted an arricle from Psychology Today on FB about this. The article specifically called out problems in ps, but I see almost as many hs families sending their kids from activity to activity and kids getting no time to just be.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/201001/the-decline-play-and-rise-in-childrens-mental-disorders?fbclid=IwAR1y_5HK3OLUnhI0dkj8Y0Eg9qYJm-vqiHZ1hAKakcD5TvFD4rWu66WyDTI

Sometimes our social bug kids do need more socializing time, but sometimes we just think they do because social norms about "being involved" have changed so dramatically and what they really need is more time at home to think their own thoughts and do their own thing.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Momto6inIN
Edited to add link

[maize]

6 hours ago, parent said:

 I was noticing that some kids in our music circles seem unconfident and unhappy.  I thought it was because these kids are in public school and not getting enough attention.  Then I realized that homeschooled kids at my church seem unconfident and also unhappy, hardly ever smiling.  I think it's because they either video school or independent study (I've talked to parents about what they use).  They still aren't getting interaction from parents.  My husband and I had a talk about it last week.  Our kids are very confident and happy, and I think it is largely from the amount of interaction they have with their parents.  

 

I would be cautious about presuming that traits such as confidence and happiness are environmentally determined, either in a positive or negative direction. Children struggling with anxiety or depression, for example, are not going to appear confident and happy. A tendency towards mental health struggles usually has a significant genetic component--I am quite confident that if you were raising some of my kids exactly the same way you are raising yours they would still struggle with anxiety.

Edited February 1, 2020 by maize

[maize]

Nature vs. nurture is not really a one or the other debate; both matter. Nurture can influence nature but does not overcome it--nurture can't change the raw material you are working with.

 

[8filltheheart]

19 minutes ago, maize said:

 

I would be cautious about presuming that traits such as confidence and happiness are environmentally determined, either in a positive or negative direction. Children struggling with anxiety or depression, for example, are not going to appear confident and happy. A tendency towards mental health struggles usually has a significant genetic component--I am quite confident that if you were raising some of my kids exactly the same way you are raising yours they would still struggle with anxiety.

I would agree with this. My current sr suffers from pretty severe anxiety as well as being extremely introverted.  Around large groups she probably appears unhappy bc she is quiet and forcing herself to engage. She also lacks self-confidence in large groups. She is, otoh, happy and her personality at home presents very differently than when she is stressed.  

Ironically, she actively joins large groups even though she doesn't actively jump in and engage. Her efforts go into being there and then observing vs. trying to be in the center of it all. 

She marches to her own drummer, very different from her siblings. 

[ktgrok]

On 1/30/2020 at 7:10 PM, Jean in Newcastle said:

Thinking about this thread a lot today.  You also get this "paint by numbers" approach when people don't really understand the "whys" behind something.  It actually drives me a bit nuts when people talk about an approach like Charlotte Mason's educational philosophy and dumb it down to doing narrations in a mechanical manner or nature study in a prescribed way without ever understanding that her whole philosophy was built upon understanding and interacting with IDEAS and not on the specific application of a book narration or a nature walk.  Sure, those things are good but if you don't understand the "whys" behind them, they are no more beneficial than any other activity.  All of this stuff is superficial and uses no critical thinking skills and in my opinion, you need critical thinking skills to really teach kids in a meaningful way. 

Yup. It's like that game of telephone - one person actually reads the real Charlotte Mason info then blogs about it then someone reads that blog then posts about it then someone reads that post then talks about it in a group then one of them makes a youtube video and by the end it might b a very nice educational philosophy but it sure ain't Charlotte Mason!

And don't get me STARTED on companies cashing in on terms like that. One of the many reasons I hate using Masterbooks even as it fits my kids/school the best, is the constant refrain by followers that it is "charlotte mason" because they include a two page snippet of a story each chapter. Um, no. Those syrupy sweet and boring as all get out stories written by the person who did the math or language arts books thrown in-between math or grammar concepts does NOT have anything to do with Charlotte Mason!!!!! Now, on the other hand, the fact that lessons are short and sweet so the kid can spend more time reading good books and playing outdoors - that DOES go with Charlotte Mason - but no one brings that up. 

On 1/30/2020 at 11:18 PM, 8FillTheHeart said:

I guess this is where I am an outsider (and maybe this goes to being in ""aging and dated"  homeschooling cohort.) The last several posts reflect why.....bc the conversation is about "school."  Homeschooling isn't school for us.  Homeschooling is our lifestyle.  Academics is just part of what we do.  I am not sure there is a clearly delineated place where academics ends and ???? regular daily life ??? begins.

Yes. I actually was listening to an audiobook in the car that was covering the various reasons people homeschool and I paused it to let my kids know the main reason I homeschool them - not for religious reasons, or for better academics, or whatever other reasons they said but because I like having them around, and for us it is important for family to spend a good part of the day together. I have a lot of other reasons too, but that is the main one - it's just how our family is. 

On 1/31/2020 at 7:29 AM, mms said:

I started of as a homeschooler of necessity because we did not have the resources to afford the sort of education I wanted our children to have via the private school route.  This year, however, we seriously almost enrolled the older three in school because of a medically high needs baby and the toll it was taking on my own health and sanity. When it came time to make the shift though I couldn’t do it. I realized that I had changed and now am firmly in the lifestyle camp. I honestly couldn’t even imagine the day to day reality of sending the children away. Homeschooling is our life and I understand now that school is not an option.

But, it is not an option for “us” and we have the resources to make that work. I would get extremely irritated if the pressure to continue homeschooling came from an external source amidst all the other challenges I had to deal with. As it is, even my most pro-homeschooling friends were extremely supportive of whatever route our family had to take. I am sorry, OP, that you don’t have that sort of community.

Very true! It is one thing to want to homeschool, and even to feel it is the only real choice, and another to have someone else tell you it is needed. 

18 hours ago, goldenecho said:

I can really relate.   When I sent my child back to school I was so scared of the judgement.   My child was behind, but he also has some issues that made it harder for him.   They wouldn't see the immense struggle we went through to get him to the place where he was ready and able to learn (not breaking down crying every day like in KG, and like every time we tried to do anything related to school with him for a while after that).  They wouldn't see how it took years to build his confidence and help him believe he could do this.   I was so scared all they would see is how far behind he was, and blame me and homeschooling for it.

And then, his spec-ed teacher told us what a good job we did with him and I just about cried. 

 
 

Lol, we had one teacher that was impressed with him, and one that - when I said that she just taught him one class but I had to teach him all his classes - simply said, "I'm so sorry." Lol, he could be a difficult student. Smart, but contrary 🙂 But academically he was quite ahead when he took CC classes, and had the top scores on essays, etc despite our lack of real writing curriculum. THAT was a relief!

15 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I agree completely.  

 

I agree and wasn't suggesting otherwise. 

My thoughts when I posted were more along the lines that today's conversations on this forum and amg homeschoolers in general are about classes and dominated by the flex-schooling/outsourcing perspective--"what classes do your students take where, what provider is the best for,  what co-op do you belong to, etc."  It is fundamentally a different starting place and different mindset focused more on subjects being completed outside of a traditional school setting vs. homeschooling as a lifestyle.  Since homeschooling is a single term encompassing vastly different approaches, every poster's use of the term reflects something slightly different.  But, at the same time, flex-schooling has shifted to be the norm.  So, posts in general reflect that underlying interpretation of the word when it is posted/read, etc.  

Yes!!!! So much is about the school and not the home part. I do see that being a big shift. 

[RootAnn]

7 hours ago, parent said:

 Then I realized that homeschooled kids at my church seem unconfident and also unhappy, hardly ever smiling.  I think it's because they either video school or independent study (I've talked to parents about what they use).  They still aren't getting interaction from parents. 

One family I know well uses Abeka video lessons almost exclusively & their kids are smiley, out-going, and respectful.

I'm on the same page with a bunch of the previous posters that you might be seeing personality/nature vs. solely nuture. I know I have some of both & that they aren't all the same with other people as they are at home. And they all spend lots of time with us with lots of attention. ;)

[Jean in Newcastle]

10 hours ago, lewelma said:

I've been at homeschool camp this past week and had a friend say, "School is superfluous to our lifestyle."

This explains our situation exactly. It is not that we avoid or reject school; instead, we live a life where school is not required.  There is no dichotomy, nor is there some sliding scale. There is just life, and our family culture celebrates learning as a team and engaging in thoughtful introspection on many subjects. We do not focus on external requirements created by the state, nor do we try to replicate school or 'keep up.' We follow our own path with a desire for self improvement in many areas of life, not just academics.

Ruth in NZ

I was never brave enough to do this during the high school years. But by high school my kids had a lot of say in what they studied. And while we veered off the beaten path a bit, most of what they chose was the standard college prep courses. I think that if I were homeschooling myself at this point in my life that I would be more adventurous but that’s a product of half a century plus of perspective on life!  
 

I think where my kids veered from the norm the most was not in subject matter but in approach. They know how they learn best and homeschooling allows us to approach things that way. 

[maize]

3 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

 

She marches to her own drummer, very different from her siblings. 

My "marches to her own drummer" kid is my five year old--who, instead of being anxious and hanging back like her siblings, runs enthusiastically into every activity, never hesitates to make her opinion known, and is quite confident that she can do anything and be the best at it.

If I didn't remember all too well giving birth to her I would question whether she was really my child!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Also - and I'm not quite awake enough to go back to find the posts that triggered this thought:  but while the net sum of our family life has been good (I think), our family life and our schooling in the midst of that has not been a linear journey.  It's been a messy twisty journey.  There have been no guarantees.  Not only is there the interaction between nature and nurture, but there is free will of all parties involved - especially once they reach their teens.  We chose to homeschool - not as any sort of a guarantee of a certain outcome like some of these blogs/publications that I think that the OP is referencing suggest, but because it gave us the best seats on that journey.  Yes, we controlled some of it at the very beginning but not for long! 

If I were to do it all again, I would still homeschool.   I would still give my kids choices as they grew - including whether they continued to homeschool or not.  I have no idea if my kids will ever have kids.  And I have no idea if they will homeschool their own kids.  I can't even go back and say what the journey would have been like for us if we had chosen not to homeschool.  I think that my kids have been exposed to ideas and been allowed to explore and to learn in a way that has shaped them positively but I don't think that the journey outside of homeschool would have been all bad.  But as a teacher who has taught in private, public and now home, I still believe that home gives the most freedom in that journey and I think that is a positive thing. 

[sweet2ndchance]

25 minutes ago, parent said:

In my head, I think video school is horrible.  BUT, we are using Mystery Science this year, so I expect it is outsourcing but I am in the room interjecting a lot in those lessons.  My daughter has also been using IEW which uses videos.  But again, I am around and we discuss.  It seems so unhealthy to isolate a kid in their room all day with a screen. 

I honestly think it is all in how you use things. I don't find the video lessons to be the problem in your last statement. To me, the problem is sequestering the kid to their room, not the format of the lesson. If the kid wants to go to their room and do their work in relative peace and quiet, that's one thing, but when I think of isolating a kid in their room, I think of someone telling the child, "Now, you better not come out of there until you are done." I don't even make my kids clean their room like that, much less do their school work.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of video lessons either but I don't think they are horrible. But, we also don't do screens in bedrooms, for adults or children. So maybe that colors my view a bit. When we use video lessons, I am right there with them. We are pausing the video to talk and discuss ideas. I am making sure they are engaged and not just enduring the lesson. There is no point, in my opinion, in having them just endure the lesson. If I feel like they are not engaging, we talk about it or we change the topic or we come back later when they are ready to engage or I find out why they are not engaging... most of the time, this makes video lessons in general a pretty poor fit for us as I WANT to be engaged and involved with their learning. But there are times when someone else can explain or demonstrate something much better than I can by myself. That is when I choose to judiciously use video lessons as a family, not as something for the kids to do while I do something else. Even when I had 5 kids still all at home and homeschooling them all, I did use educational videos to occupy some of the kids while I worked with others, but I never trusted them to learn new content that way. It was always review and reinforcement or just for fun educational videos.

I think teens and adults who are personally invested in what they are learning can learn just fine from video lessons. Where we live, many of the classes at the local community college are distance education video-based classes. It can be a great way to learn things when there is no one locally can teach you and traveling, for teacher or student,  is cost prohibitive. Video education is definitely a valid and useful form of learning things but I think it is all in how you use it and whether or not it is a good fit for your particular situation.

[Crimson Wife]

On 1/31/2020 at 1:55 PM, 8FillTheHeart said:

My thoughts when I posted were more along the lines that today's conversations on this forum and amg homeschoolers in general are about classes and dominated by the flex-schooling/outsourcing perspective--"what classes do your students take where, what provider is the best for,  what co-op do you belong to, etc."  It is fundamentally a different starting place and different mindset focused more on subjects being completed outside of a traditional school setting vs. homeschooling as a lifestyle.  Since homeschooling is a single term encompassing vastly different approaches, every poster's use of the term reflects something slightly different.  But, at the same time, flex-schooling has shifted to be the norm.  So, posts in general reflect that underlying interpretation of the word when it is posted/read, etc.  

My personal take on this is that many, if not most, homeschooling families these days are trying to stay if not exactly dual income, definitely not single income, while homeschooling. They need to outsource to co-op or online because mom needs the time to devote to her work-at-home job. A big reason that my 2nd has applied to boarding school for high school rather than continuing to homeschool is because I hope to start my graduate studies this summer.

I homeschooled my oldest from pre-k through 12th and my 2nd from pre-k through 8th. I'm ready to move on to the next phase of my life.

[maize]

5 hours ago, sweet2ndchance said:

When we use video lessons, I am right there with them. We are pausing the video to talk and discuss ideas. I am making sure they are engaged and not just enduring the lesson. There is no point, in my opinion, in having them just endure the lesson. If I feel like they are not engaging, we talk about it or we change the topic or we come back later when they are ready to engage or I find out why they are not engaging... most of the time, this makes video lessons in general a pretty poor fit for us as I WANT to be engaged and involved with their learning. 

And I have the kid who is absolutely miserable and non-compliant with any form of instruction that involves discussion between him and an adult. Switching to Teaching Textbooks for math has been fabulous because he is quite content to work through the lessons alone on the computer and even--wonder of wonders--will call to me for help if he gets stuck because apparently now that I am not involved with trying to actually teach him he feels free to involve me--on his own terms.

He wants to do his work entirely alone, especially any work that involves output like writing--he is uncomfortable having anyone else even in the room for that.

Oddly (so much oddity with this one) he functions better in some group learning situations; it is the one on one interaction in particular that he cannot handle. 

I've been thinking about him a lot today--my older kids all participated in an Irish dance competition and he was 100% engaged and fabulous on stage--and yet to see him in his dance class you would think he didn't want to be there and wasn't paying attention. The teacher/student interface seems to be a profoundly uncomfortable one for him.

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by maize

[sweet2ndchance]

Yup, none of mine were quite as adamant about working independently as your son but they all got to a point where they would rather someone else explain it or figure it out themselves before they wanted my help, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Video lessons definitely fill a need and can be very good for some things and some people.

[goldenecho]

11 hours ago, Crimson Wife said:

My personal take on this is that many, if not most, homeschooling families these days are trying to stay if not exactly dual income, definitely not single income, while homeschooling. They need to outsource to co-op or online because mom needs the time to devote to her work-at-home job. A big reason that my 2nd has applied to boarding school for high school rather than continuing to homeschool is because I hope to start my graduate studies this summer.

I homeschooled my oldest from pre-k through 12th and my 2nd from pre-k through 8th. I'm ready to move on to the next phase of my life.

Part (not the main part, but part) of the reason I'm no longer homeschooling my youngest is the need for a 2nd income.   My kids want to go to college, and that has to be paid for, and I don't see how we do it with just my husband working.

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by goldenecho

[hs03842]

-

Edited June 8, 2020 by JoyKM

[Ausmumof3]

On 2/2/2020 at 10:32 AM, maize said:

And I have the kid who is absolutely miserable and non-compliant with any form of instruction that involves discussion between him and an adult. Switching to Teaching Textbooks for math has been fabulous because he is quite content to work through the lessons alone on the computer and even--wonder of wonders--will call to me for help if he gets stuck because apparently now that I am not involved with trying to actually teach him he feels free to involve me--on his own terms.

He wants to do his work entirely alone, especially any work that involves output like writing--he is uncomfortable having anyone else even in the room for that.

Oddly (so much oddity with this one) he functions better in some group learning situations; it is the one on one interaction in particular that he cannot handle. 

I've been thinking about him a lot today--my older kids all participated in an Irish dance competition and he was 100% engaged and fabulous on stage--and yet to see him in his dance class you would think he didn't want to be there and wasn't paying attention. The teacher/student interface seems to be a profoundly uncomfortable one for him.

 

Yes one of mine has really liked the switch to Saxon for math because he can be independent.

[Janeway]

On 1/28/2020 at 12:28 PM, shinyhappypeople said:

(This is sort of frustrated, ranty rambling.  Thank you for bearing with me)

I'm doing some soul-searching as my family wades through an enormously difficult time.  Anyway, it got me thinking about education and the idea that we can get into a cultish mindset about homeschooling.  It makes you feel like you have no choices beyond parent-directed home education.  And this is the best education option, and if you don't homeschool, then do you even love Jesus or your children?  

But, you know what?  I suck at teaching math and science, and it shows, and it's an issue.  Not every parent can teach every subject.  Stop pretending we can!  And YES some kids really do learn best in classroom settings.  And NO it's not fair to expect kids to self-teach subjects that we're weak in.  And the socialization thing... OK, it's more about socializing, but it does matter.  Let's stop pretending it doesn't or that once a week youth group is going to cut it for most kids.  We need to put as much thought into our socializing plans (tailored to the needs of each kid) as we do into picking the rest of our curriculum.

I value homeschooling (really!).  We may in fact continue doing it (with major tweaking). But I find myself weary of the rigid mindset that education choices are black/white, good/bad.  And I want to kick myself for falling into that mindset.   My heart was in the right place.  My motive has always been love.

 

 

I am unsure if you are saying everyone is in the same mindset, you are not correct. Plus, some of us feel like we can actually teach everything, at least to a level. And some of us do not do it for religious reasons. 

I am very sorry you are struggling. There is nothing wrong with switching your school situation. I have two children in public school part time, three at home (the youngest is not old enough for school) At the beginning of the year, I had two at a charter brick and mortar school and one at home and one in regular public school and one is too young. Now this semester, one of my children in public school-half the day is virtual and half is at school. 

[BlsdMama]

The idea of "homeschool cult" in today's world is a bit much for me.  Thanks to the internet  world, we're all very aware that while the immediate radius may share a particular mindset, we're aware that things can be very different for our own children.  I've homeschooled in the rural Midwest, the more urban Midwest, California, and Oregon, as well as a stretch of the past almost twenty years. Before I had a homeschool community, I had an online community - TWTM (and VegSource) existed even then and homeschooling was what I made of it, since we only knew of one other family that was homeschooling at that point.  

In modern homeschooling, it is largely not upon the parent to be the teacher of all the subjects, nor an expert in all areas.  It is simply if the need arises, one must seek out resources.  

I find this concept of submitting to the views of the few and then saying, "This is my world," comparative to the "stop judging moms" posts.  Who?  Who is judging moms? Who is judging homeschoolers?  And why do we care?  If someone had told me I couldn't nurse my baby, I'd have laughed.  And if someone had told me I needed to nurse my Becca (who didn't handle nursing at all), I'd have laughed or just shook my head.  Just because people have opinions and mouths with which to voice them, does not make the opinions relevant in your world. 😉   Often the pressure we feel to conform to a mindset or societal norm is pressure we feel or place upon ourselves.  And even if it is pressure on us, it doesn't need to shape us.  Maybe that's twenty years of homeschooling in the making that I truly believe that? Hm.

Of anyone, I absolutely recognize difficult times hit and exist. I can identify - Heck, I'm homeschooling with ALS.  We're in constant evaluation of when must we make the transition to b&m schooling and for which children!  But, maybe it's odd, but I don't feel I MUST homeschool because others feel that way?  Their opinions have little sway on our immediate family decisions.  Conversely, my parents see our choice to continue homeschooling as an incredible selfish choice, so there's that.  While I love them, they don't understand, so I forgive that innocent ignorance.  I am gently suggesting that either you give others too much power in your head and decision making process or that it's okay to accept that this is a loosely held conviction.  That's okay - the idea that you hold specific ideas loosely.   This is my hill, not yours.  And it's okay to say that, for sure!

However, I feel hard pressed to refute some of what you said.  My own time homeschooling lends experience and understanding to some of these arguments.  I do actually believe every motivated parent can facilitate learning for every subject.  Homeschooling isn't the narrow world it once seemed to be.  While perhaps some kids do learn best in a class setting, there is no harm in admitting many kids learn better one on one AND STILL CHOOSING something different.  I believe broccoli is superior to peanut butter, but I still fed them peanut butter for sandwiches.  I don't have to knock peanut butter.  It's okay that it's not broccoli.  Peanut butter worked better for us today.  It is COMPLETELY fair to expect children to self teach.  My oldest daughter self taught British Literature.  She learned far more than had I been at the wheel.  It was complete self-induced immersion.  Teaching herself held incredible value and I'm grateful I didn't "feed" her everything she needed.  Autonomous learning and effort is something I seek to instill in each of my children.  I wanted to differentiate between self-teaching and sequestered homeschooling. 😉  Socializing absolutely matters.  It's why I homeschool.  I think we also need to admit that socializing in public school is largely without thought - the kids your kids befriends is happenstance rather than by thoughtful and intentional tailoring.  I know of virtually no homeschooling family (and we belong to a community of well over 100 just middle & high school homeschool kids) whose only socialization is an hour of youth group.  I don't say this to pick on anyone, but these broad characterizations of what homeschooling is and can be is shockingly narrow. I hope you don't feel as though I'm attacking you and I'm very sorry if this is just the limited area you live in or just the limited view you've seen since homeschooling.  I once believed no one was homeschooling in my area.  I later found out there was a large co-op approximately ten miles away from me for years.  I had a limited field of vision, but it didn't make what I believed true, and it's important I clarify that.   There is nothing wrong with choosing to educate differently (than homeschooling) but that doesn't mean we need to necessarily put down homeschooling to affirm our different choice.  It's completely acceptable to say, "We've chosen something different and that's okay."  Homeschooling is what individual families and individual persons make of it - much like anything else in life.

[Shoeless]

To be honest, I'd really love to find a "homeschool cult" today, because all of the recent posts on my local group are about "What is the cheapest option I can sign my kid up for homeschooling?" and "Is there anyone who'll homeschool my special needs kid for me while I go to work?", and the responses are "Oh, you don't have to do anything. Just tell people you are unschooling for now and then sign up for Acellus or Outschool later".  So far, the recommendations are Acellus, Outschool, Khan, and IXL. NO ONE has recommended buying some books and sitting down with their kids to read and talk to them. 

It's not even that people are looking for a la carte class options or co-ops to add to what they are already doing at home. They're looking for some other thing entirely, something that is free/dirt cheap private school without any oversight, accountability, or expectation that they kids and/or parents will do work.  

I feel really sad and angry about this.  And yes, I know it's judgmental.  I don't care.  

 

[Mbelle]

18 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Oh, you don't have to do anything. Just tell people you are unschooling for now and then sign up for Acellus or Outschool later".  So far, the recommendations are Acellus, Outschool, Khan, and IXL. NO ONE has recommended buying some books and sitting down with their kids to read and talk to them. 

I have seen this too on local groups.  I recently saw someone ask for recomendation for a Kindergartener for online completly independent learning.  The places you listed were recommended and then someone posted a response with their little K student sitting at a desk in front of a computer alone  My head spins and I'm blown away.  It is not hard nor does it take very long to just sit and teach a 5/6 year old Kindergarten level work.  

[Shoeless]

17 hours ago, Plum said:

I’ve been linking that thread I made for newbies a lot lately. One of the online charter schools here is closing while the other is in jeopardy of closing. There have been a good number of receptive people. I think after trudging through the busywork that is online charter, they are pretty sure they can do better. Yes, there’s been a share of those seeking free online childcare/homeschool. So there is a little hope. 

I pointed the people in my local group toward a mom that runs a "how to homeschool" class for parents. It's a good quality class and the mom that runs it has many years of experience.  I debated throwing my 2 cents in about WTM, but it started feeling pointless.  The parent asking about "cheap homeschool programs" was very excited about the idea of handing her kid a tablet and not having to do anything else. 

 

[Shoeless]

20 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Are people who want this pulling their kids out because the schools are really abysmal?

Generally, the people wanting this type of program cite bullying as the reason for leaving public school. It's either that or the kids are special needs and the parents are opposed to the solutions/resources offered by the school to address the need. (Edited to add: I'm speaking very broadly about the special needs families, and do not mean to imply they are being deliberately oppositional in rejecting what the school offers. It's simply too case-specific to get into why one family may stay in school vs another leaving). 

I mean, *I* think the schools are not good, but my kid was an outlier in a school setting and we bailed on school early on. I don't have enough experience with today's public schools to be objective on their quality, to be honest. 

Mostly, I'm just feeling crabby, lol. It's February. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by MissLemon

[kiwik]

On 1/30/2020 at 11:13 AM, Plum said:

I have had the exact same conversation with teachers I know. The ones that failed to launch at  homeschooling and wind up in public/private school are the obvious ones. There have probably been many successfully homeschooled kids in their class that were completely under their radar. 

And it is the reason some principals in my city are rabidly anti home schooling.