wuhan - coronavirus

[Pen]

30 minutes ago, StellaM said:

Sorry - another question - because I trust the combined brains of the Hive more than I do the CMO in my state:

Is the following true, so far as you're aware? Particularly on the spread?

All the data from Australia and internationally, suggests it is uncommon for children <15 yrs to get or spread Covid

 

 

There were not many children on Diamond Princess, but afaik they were found to be infected with SARS-CoV-2  virus at same rate as adults. 

They were not seriously sick — or possibly not symptomatic at all.  So if CV19 is being called just the illness only and if technically “asymptomatic” or “mild” cases are not designated to be CV19 by your country (or state, or education department or whatever is relevant) then maybe it is technically true—though not true as to virus itself and who can get it. But important thing to me is the children apparently get infected at same rate as adults.

And they are very possibly a vector for contagion to transmit the virus to adults, who may then have much worse illnesses.   I think that part we don’t know, but I think it may be suspected to add to Italian problems due to multi generation households.   Though that could have been just young adults as vectors, not children 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Pen

[Arcadia]

9 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Well, I just found a recent study in The Lancet said having schools open is responsible for 2-4% of deaths (not in children, obviously) and 10% of spread...is that 'uncommon'? 

Seems to be based on simulation https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk:8443/bitstream/10044/1/77482/14/2020-03-16-COVID19-Report-9.pdf

Which Lanctet study did you read?

[Arcadia]

3 minutes ago, StellaM said:

Are they saying 'hardly any risk!' relying on the fact that there isn't data, or do they have some access to data that DOES show kids do not spread the virus or spread it at very low rates. Because they seem very confident about opening schools back up this term.  

Maybe they were looking at Singapore cases? The education minister said no student was infected in school. 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/coronavirus-education-minister-ong-ye-kung-responds-to-concerns-on-schools-reopening

"Setting out MOE's thinking on the matter, he said Covid-19 does not affect the young as much as it does adults - echoing remarks made by Professor Dale Fisher, chair of the World Health Organisation’s Global Outbreak Alert and Response Network.

"Neither is there evidence to show that the young are vectors or spreaders of the virus," he said. "The reverse appears to be the case, where the young get infected by adults at home."

None of the students in Singapore who contracted Covid-19 caught it from school, he added."

[Pen]

Just now, StellaM said:

 

But the government here seems to be saying because they are more likely to have few symptoms or be asymptomatic, they are far less likely to be a vector...is that right? I mean, it kind of makes sense...if they're not coughing, for example, are they still secreting at a rate that will infect others? I don't know. I don't understand enough about viruses or transmission or COVID in kids to know if I'm being lied to or not lied to...but I keep being told schools are a negligible risk to anyone not immune suppressed. So even my elevated risks if I get it are multiplied only be the negligible risk of actually contracting it from an asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic kid, so...pretty low risk. 

 

I do not think we know at this point.  They should do some studies like find a cohort of asymptomatic kids who have it, then collect samples and see what virus they are shedding. 

The Washington choir where people got it, no one was symptomatic.  And adults probably distance better than kids do.   Singing can transmit it.  And apparently so can talking.  

It does not require coughing or sneezing. 

[Pen]

@StellaM — https://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/03/16/coronavirus031620

we needed more information and research in March, and still do afaik in April.  

[Pen]

7 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Haven't Singapore shut schools now though?

I'm so confused.

 

 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/more-than-4-000-students-continue-to-go-to-school-during-covid-12658184

my guess is that the picture of Singapore class isn’t the way a class at your Sydney school would look

[Arcadia]

1 minute ago, StellaM said:

 

Haven't Singapore shut schools now though?

I'm so confused.

Singapore is unofficially on lockdown (DORSCON Red), officially on DORSCON orange. They want to minimise human movements (close offices, schools, polytechnics and universities to reduce people on public transport), mask is compulsory now. At crowded markets, people are allowed to go based on their identity card's last digit.

[Pen]

1 minute ago, StellaM said:

 

So do you reckon it would be accurate to say we don't yet fully understand the role children play in transmitting the virus? So any claims as to risk are provisional?

 

 

Yep. 

[Ausmumof3]

28 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

So you reckon it's a fudge?

Are they saying 'hardly any risk!' relying on the fact that there isn't data, or do they have some access to data that DOES show kids do not spread the virus or spread it at very low rates. Because they seem very confident about opening schools back up this term.  

 

Well they have a graph in the age based on data in Australia.  But data in Australia is based on testing in Australia that I don’t think is really adequate to determine.  I’ll try and check if there’s newer data but I’m in between trying to keep my kids on task.

the original data from China indicating lower risk to children I think wasn’t really reliable because there is a huge culture of protecting children meaning they had less exposure.  For comparison only senior high school years are going back to school in China at this point and full school in a few very selected areas. 
 

they are saying low risk here in SA but that’s based on the lack of community transmission and new cases, rather than on  whether kids can spread the virus.

The health lady here said they are currently working on guidelines for at risk, or older teachers I think.  I can’t remember her exact words.  If I get more info on SA guidelines I’ll post it.

Anecdotally there is currently an outbreak in a residential care home for kids in Japan.  
 

for my personal opinion if this respiratory virus doesn’t fly through schools if it once gets going it will be one unusual virus. 

[hopeallgoeswell]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

Think someone already posted this study link https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2765184

News link https://abc7news.com/health/two-thirds-of-seriously-ill-covid-19-patients-didnt-have-fever-study-finds/6123325/

 

... "The most surprising finding to me was that two-thirds of the patients who were seriously ill with an active infection did not have a fever," said senior researcher Karina Davidson, PhD.

"Give me a fever, and I can cure any disease.” Hippocrates

I have read that pediatricians, at least my kids' doctor and the ones I listen to on podcasts, are leaning towards not treating fevers because they are beneficial.

Edited April 24, 2020 by hopeallgoeswell

[Acadie]

23 minutes ago, StellaM said:

So do you reckon it would be accurate to say we don't yet fully understand the role children play in transmitting the virus? So any claims as to risk are provisional?

 

 

38 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

But the government here seems to be saying because they are more likely to have few symptoms or be asymptomatic, they are far less likely to be a vector...is that right? I mean, it kind of makes sense...if they're not coughing, for example, are they still secreting at a rate that will infect others? I don't know. I don't understand enough about viruses or transmission or COVID in kids to know if I'm being lied to or not lied to...but I keep being told schools are a negligible risk to anyone not immune suppressed. So even my elevated risks if I get it are multiplied only be the negligible risk of actually contracting it from an asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic kid, so...pretty low risk. 

 

Absolutely preposterous to say children are far less likely to transmit! 

They are less likely to show symptoms--but we know asymptomatic carriers are major transmitters of coronavirus. And we know children are not at all scrupulous about hygiene. In the US, the justification for school closings has been that while children aren't the age group most impacted by the disease, they are the most effective at viral transmission.

For my family, most of the illnesses we've had in the past 10 years have started with kids, and spread to adults in the family. 

I'm very skeptical about those models that say school closings only prevent a very low percentage of cases, and I really wish I had research to send you to back that up!

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Acadie

[Ausmumof3]

@Stella

from the American academy of pediatrics
 

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2020/03/16/peds.2020-0834.1

“Third, children may play a major role in community-based viral transmission. Available data suggest that children may have more upper respiratory tract involvement (including nasopharyngeal carriage) rather than lower respiratory tract involvement.⁴There is also evidence of fecal shedding in the stool for several weeks after diagnosis,⁸ leading to concern about fecal-oral transmission of the virus, particularly for infants and children who are not toilet trained, and viral replication in the gastrointestinal tract.⁹Prolonged shedding in nasal secretions and stool has substantial implications for community spread in child care centers, in schools, and in the home. Additionally, non-COVID-19 coronaviruses are detectable in respiratory secretions in a large percentage of healthy children,⁶ and the extent to which this is also seen in COVID-19 is unclear. Prolonged viral shedding in individuals who are symptomatic, combined with shedding in persons who are asymptomatic, would render contact tracing and other public health measures to mitigate spread less effective.”

 

[Arcadia]

5 minutes ago, hopeallgoeswell said:

"Give me a fever, and I can cure any disease.” Hippocrates

I have read that pediatricians, at least my kids' doctor and the ones I listen to on podcasts, are leaning towards not treating fevers because they are so beneficial.

However, the findings also mean temperature checking of employees and patients as a COVID screening tool is not as helpful as hoped. I get my temperature taken at the entrance of the buildings when I go for medical appointments. 

[ElizabethB]

Anyone else have state data graphed by date of infection?  They make a much better curve than daily case numbers.

https://public.tableau.com/profile/idaho.division.of.public.health#!/vizhome/DPHIdahoCOVID-19Dashboard_V2/Story1

Daily case number graph, scroll down for graph.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/coronavirus/article241205826.html

 

[Pen]

13 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Do you think it would be reasonable to try to WFH until Term 3? To see what happens?

I just feel so guilty for being a thorn in my principal's side.

And worried about the kids.

And about losing my job.

 

I am not clear on your school terms, but I think you should try to work from home as long as possible.  

I also think similar to it being easier to teach a music instrument virtually than at two meters distance, you can probably better show a page that you are helping a child with really clearly on a screen rather than trying to do it while maintaining safe distance in person.  Maybe even better than at a close distance in person. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, StellaM said:

 

But the government here seems to be saying because they are more likely to have few symptoms or be asymptomatic, they are far less likely to be a vector...is that right? I mean, it kind of makes sense...if they're not coughing, for example, are they still secreting at a rate that will infect others? I don't know. I don't understand enough about viruses or transmission or COVID in kids to know if I'm being lied to or not lied to...but I keep being told schools are a negligible risk to anyone not immune suppressed. So even my elevated risks if I get it are multiplied only be the negligible risk of actually contracting it from an asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic kid, so...pretty low risk. 

 

I don’t think we know for children, but Iirc we do know that adults can be shedding a lot of virus before and at the start of illness.  So before start of cough and when child started to show signs it might be high virus shed as well. 

 

[BeachGal]

49 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Someone asked how many eggs we will need to produce a vaccine and this was ABC s answer.  I’m using this to justify my chicken food bill right now 😆

“Professor de Courten said while he foresees a staggered rollout, exactly how the eventual candidate is produced will have to be solved in the coming months and years.

"Some of them, the influenza vaccine for instance, is produced using eggs," he said.

"For COVID-19, there wouldn't be enough eggs in the world.

"The production question is a very serious one. So there is one thing of finding an effective vaccine, then not being able to produce it, so you need to solve those problems."

 

The US maintains secret flocks of egg-laying chickens just for the purpose of making vaccines. Let's hope they're still there!

Johnson & Johnson has committed to making 1 billion doses of vaccine if trials work. They are going to manufacture them at risk, meaning they will eat the costs of making the vaccine if the trials don't pan out. Phase 1 human trials will start around September at the latest. That will take about three months. If all good, the vaccine will be available for emergency use around early 2021. If human trials continue to do well (always a big IF), the vaccines would be ready by early summer. That is very fast. There could be problems, though.

J&J actually has three candidates for vaccines; the two remaining will be back ups if the first fails.

There are many other companies that could end up making the vaccine as well. I just threw out J&J's as an example of one. 

[Ausmumof3]

14 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

I just feel so guilty at asking for special consideration, when they keep saying 'it's safe'. Not a corona thread problem!

If you are free right now adelaides newspaper the advertiser has a live q&a with Ed department 

its on the Facebook page. You could ask there.  There are similar questions there

edited to add there seems to be a lot of talking around and not direct answers so maybe don’t bother.

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[ElizabethB]

3 minutes ago, BeachGal said:

The US maintains secret flocks of egg-laying chickens just for the purpose of making vaccines. Let's hope they're still there!

This sounds like something you could start some sort of conspiracy theory from, LOL.

Did you hear there are secret flocks of chickens, what are they hiding?

[Ausmumof3]

19 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

I just feel so guilty at asking for special consideration, when they keep saying 'it's safe'. Not a corona thread problem!

Ok the streaming is really really bad but from what I can make out they are saying vulnerable teachers are being given the option to take leave, work from home or come to other arrangements.  However the teachers in the comments are saying they are vulnerable but haven’t been given those options.

[ElizabethB]

Just now, square_25 said:

 

Kids are such pros at shedding viruses, lol. I mean, even if they aren't sneezing, they have no concept of social distancing. They get in each other's faces. They kiss and hug. They lick each other :-P. I've gotten so many more colds since my kids have been in childcare... 

My dad got a ton of stuff the first few years he started teaching and then was never sick again, the last 10 years of teaching he started taking a day a year of "sick" leave to go fishing, he hadn't gotten sick for years.

[BeachGal]

3 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

This sounds like something you could start some sort of conspiracy theory from, LOL.

Did you hear there are secret flocks of chickens, what are they hiding?

 

It would make a great movie!

The chickens are very carefully cared for, I hear. If I were a chicken and I couldn't live in Hawaii, I might want to be laying these eggs! IIRC, each egg is about $6 because a lot goes into preventing diseases that might be found in other eggs. Workers are vetted, too. It's really quite something. All secret, too. 

Okay, so just went and did a quick Google search and apparently they are not going to use eggs for this vaccine. I guess they're using something else.

900,000 eggs needed every day for 9 months to make enough flu vaccines in just the US. Crazy!

https://www.insider.com/us-government-flu-vaccine-chickens-national-security-2020-4

• The chicken eggs won't work for the novel coronavirus though since it isn't able to replicate inside eggs in the way other flu viruses do.

• The US potentially has millions of chickens laying eggs year-round. Bright said in a pandemic influenza outbreak 900,000 chicken eggs are needed every day for up to nine months to make enough vaccines for the US alone.

[Ausmumof3]

 

 

[Terabith]

55 minutes ago, square_25 said:

They lick each other :-P. 

When I was teaching preschool, I had to say at least every day, usually multiple times a day, "Please keep your tongue to yourself."

[Arcadia]

California https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Coronavirus-live-updates-news-bay-area-15192855.php

“7:09 p.m. California has cleared its pending backlog of coronavirus tests: The California Department of Public Health said Thursday that all 482,097 coronavirus tests that have been conducted in the state have reported results. It is the first time since the department began sharing daily testing figures in mid-March that it has reported no testing backlog. At its worst, California had nearly 60,000 pending tests because of a backlog at labs processing the tests. As of yesterday, there were 7,200 pending tests. The agency did not immediately respond to a question about how it was able to clear the backlog. But there is often a lag time between when labs process tests and when they report them to the state. Labs have been steadily increasing their capacity, and testing supplies have become more available in recent days.”

[Paige]

2 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

So you reckon it's a fudge?

Are they saying 'hardly any risk!' relying on the fact that there isn't data, or do they have some access to data that DOES show kids do not spread the virus or spread it at very low rates. Because they seem very confident about opening schools back up this term.  

 

They crazy.

We are seeing a lot more infections and deaths in kids than I had expected.

[Arcadia]

The study link given in the news doesn’t seem to tally with the news report 🤔

https://www.kcra.com/article/study-hidden-outbreaks-of-coronavirus-hit-us-in-early-february/32259325#

“A newly released study from Northeastern University in Boston shows the novel coronavirus hit the United States harder -- and much earlier -- than anyone knew. 

“We have a model that tracks people, individuals,” said Alessando Vespignani, the lead researcher for Northeastern University in Boston. “We integrate data from air transportation and other traveling patterns so we can follow the trajectory of the epidemic from China and other countries in the United States."

The study found hidden outbreaks of the coronavirus hitting American shores in early February -- weeks before anyone knew it was here. 

...

The researchers are using the model and their study to update the projected number of COVID-19 cases online through interactive maps.

“Most of these chains of transmission were undetected,” Vespignani said. “It was February, flu season, so many people didn’t have serious symptoms.”

“The disease spread under the radar,” he added. 

On March 1, for example, when only 23 coronavirus cases were confirmed in five big cities, the actual count of infections is projected to have been:

• 10,700 in New York
• 9,300 in San Francisco
• 3,300 in Chicago
• 2,300 cases in Seattle
• 2,300 in Boston

That adds up to nearly 28,000 cases in all, according to Northeastern University.

The study also projects:

• 299,00 deaths nationwide by May 18 with no safety measures in place
• 69,975 deaths by the same date if Americans obey stay-at-home orders

Health experts seem to agree that more testing is needed. Infectious disease expert Dr. Dean Blumberg from UC Davis Children’s Hospital in Sacramento said, “That's a lot of cases that we were missing.”

“We knew that there were milder cases that weren't in the hospital," he explained. "Cases that were even asymptomatic that we were missing. And that's what some of these models were able to show.””

[Ausmumof3]

19 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

I think it varies state to state, by status (permanent, temporary, casual), by role, by school system and by principal discretion!

 

Yes.  There’s a lot of emphasis on things being worked out on an individual basis with this whole epidemic.  I’m not sure if that’s a good thing.

[Ausmumof3]

@Stella

scomo just said that social distancing requirements of 1.5 m and 4sqm don’t need to apply in classrooms. 
 

It sounds like they just want to open schools up no matter what.

[Ausmumof3]

https://amp.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3081194/south-korean-patients-who-test-positive-reactivated?utm_content=article&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true
 

good news 

the patients who appeared to have been reinfected with the virus in South Korea most likely weren’t actually infectious they just had remnants of inactivated virus that were picked up in the test.  When they tried to cultivate the virus it wouldn’t grow.  They are still doing further testing.
 

 

[Ausmumof3]

5 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Yes, this goes along with 'kids don't spread the virus'.  So why would they need to socially distance at school? 

But then...why not bring them all back?

And why are they to be kept away from their grandparents? 

I don't understand.

 

 

It makes much more sense viewed as an economic strategy than a public health one.

[SKL]

With somewhere between a fourth and half of New Yorkers infected with Coronavirus, and the policy that anyone who dies "with Coronavirus" is treated as having died "from Coronavirus," would that not make it appear that one-fourth (or more) of deaths from causes other than Coronavirus are going to be mislabeled?  Will that not skew the death rate?  This would also be an issue in any location where there is a significant % of the population infected.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

 

 

I would not expect it to show current infection, but thought point would be to show past infection with antibodies.  If it can’t be used for that, Makes me wonder what they can be used for. 

[Arcadia]

@mathnerd@sassenach

California https://apnews.com/4ab609727eb818d6f05832a8c8dadc98

“Californians won't be charged 10 cents per bag at the grocery store and retailers can again hand out thinner, single-use plastic bags under an executive order signed Thursday by the governor.”

[Ausmumof3]

8 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@mathnerd@sassenach

California https://apnews.com/4ab609727eb818d6f05832a8c8dadc98

“Californians won't be charged 10 cents per bag at the grocery store and retailers can again hand out thinner, single-use plastic bags under an executive order signed Thursday by the governor.”

We’re still having to pay our 20c here.  Technically we are allowed to use our own but we have to pack them ourselves but the supermarket just isn’t set up with space for that so it doesn’t really work except at Aldi.  

[Arcadia]

8 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

We’re still having to pay our 20c here.  Technically we are allowed to use our own but we have to pack them ourselves but the supermarket just isn’t set up with space for that so it doesn’t really work except at Aldi.  

My county ban the use of reusable bags during this period so the stores have just let us hand carry (e.g. Daiso) out the store or put the purchased items back into the shopping cart. Some stores gave us free bags and just absorbed the cost. I could sneak my reusable bags inside my tote if I want to and use them for my purchases for my walk home after leaving the supermarket. 

April 7th https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Six-Bay-Area-counties-ban-use-of-reusable-bags-at-15182959.php 

“Six Bay Area counties are requiring grocery stores to ban reusable bags, pausing the environment-friendly policy that did away with single-use plastic bags, as pressing health concerns arise amid the coronavirus pandemic.

Last week, Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, San Mateo, San Francisco and Santa Clara counties tightened and extended their shelter-in-place orders until May 3. The order also requires chains such as Safeway and Whole Foods and local neighborhood stores to ban reusable bags and to offer single-use plastic and paper bags as alternatives for as long as the order is in effect. Some stores are also waiving bag fees.”

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

My county ban the use of reusable bags during this period so the stores have just let us hand carry (e.g. Daiso) out the store or put the purchased items back into the shopping cart. Some stores gave us free bags and just absorbed the cost. I could sneak my reusable bags inside my tote if I want to and use them for my purchases for my walk home after leaving the supermarket. 

April 7th https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Six-Bay-Area-counties-ban-use-of-reusable-bags-at-15182959.php 

“Six Bay Area counties are requiring grocery stores to ban reusable bags, pausing the environment-friendly policy that did away with single-use plastic bags, as pressing health concerns arise amid the coronavirus pandemic.

Last week, Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, San Mateo, San Francisco and Santa Clara counties tightened and extended their shelter-in-place orders until May 3. The order also requires chains such as Safeway and Whole Foods and local neighborhood stores to ban reusable bags and to offer single-use plastic and paper bags as alternatives for as long as the order is in effect. Some stores are also waiving bag fees.”

I actually think cloth or paper should be safer based on surface survival times.

[Shoeless]

A covid model from UT @ Austin. 

https://covid-19.tacc.utexas.edu/projections/

[sassenach]

7 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

A covid model from UT @ Austin. 

https://covid-19.tacc.utexas.edu/projections/

My brain loves scatter plots. So much better than lines and bars!

[Ausmumof3]

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN2260TW?taid=5ea2a71fe15385000193750b&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true
 

897 cases in Singapore today 

 

[TracyP]

6 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I would not expect it to show current infection, but thought point would be to show past infection with antibodies.  If it can’t be used for that, Makes me wonder what they can be used for. 

I think it is very likely that it can be used for that. Other states and countries are using serology tests in that way. That is a bit of a risk, though. We don't know if you can be reinfected. That's been a concern of mine, although@Ausmumof3linked a promising study on that front. We don't know how long immunity lasts - other coronaviruses offer immunity from several months to 6+ years. Big difference, obviously.

I think NY is trying to be cautious. They don't want 20% of NYC thinking they are in the clear and ignoring guidelines. I suspect that behind the scenes they will be assuming for the sake of modeling and such that 20% of people do have antibodies and are *most likely* in the clear.

[Laura Corin]

19 hours ago, TracyP said:

Argh, I wish I could break up quotes on my phone...

My guess on the death rates - 70% of our deaths are coming from nursing homes. That's that. 🙁

Yes, we did social distance and that's my point. That showed success; taking further steps does not seem to be showing even more success. Those first steps seem like they might have been enough.

It's looking as if the peak in deaths in the UK may have been on 8 April.  Lockdown didn't occur until 23 March but before that other measures were in place.  CofE stopped its church services on 17 March.  Schools, pubs and restaurants closed on 20 March.  Given the time taken from infection to death, it may be that the earlier measures were the most important.  We will only know as a phased and tentative reopening takes place.

[Ausmumof3]

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/coronavirus-australia-sydney-man-tests-positive-after-being-cleared-in-possible-reactivation-case-c-997155.amp?__twitter_impression=true
 

Man in Sydney recovered, appeared symptom free, tested negative then positive again.  Most likely it was Inactive remnants of the virus but something to watch for.

someone with more biology knowledge probably knows more but I read that this isn’t unusual for some types of virus but it is for respiratory viruses where the body typically clears them quite quickly once antibodies develop.

[Tree Frog]

I had someone tell me that HIV had been found in the Covid (DNA/RNA?) and thus is proof it is a man made virus. I don't know her source and couldn't find anything when I searched. Has anyone come across any info regarding this?

[TracyP]

2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Has this been posted? Apparently COVID pneumonia presents very differently than the usual type, and people don't realize they have it for a while because they don't have shortness of breath until it's quite late: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html

It has been posted. There was a thread about it too a few days ago. I think it is well worth reposting, though. This is really useful information.

[TracyP]

Just now, square_25 said:

Yeah, it's a few days old, so I'm not surprised. I can't keep up with this thread!! Well, not if I want to do anything else, like do my work ;-). 

So true!!! 

[Ausmumof3]

12 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Has this been posted? Apparently COVID pneumonia presents very differently than the usual type, and people don't realize they have it for a while because they don't have shortness of breath until it's quite late: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html

Thx.  I had heard of it but this was more detailed

9 minutes ago, wilrunner said:

I had someone tell me that HIV had been found in the Covid (DNA/RNA?) and thus is proof it is a man made virus. I don't know her source and couldn't find anything when I searched. Has anyone come across any info regarding this?

There was an early study I think that was discredited but now the conspiracy theory keeps bouncing around. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[Arcadia]

@mathnerd Bay Area, California https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/04/23/coronavirus-update-warmer-bay-area-weather-prompting-people-to-seek-relief-from-cabin-fever/

SAN FRANCISCO (CBS SF) — After five weeks into the shelter-in-place order, it seems cabin fever is kicking in and more people are heading out.  Whether you’re walking or driving, it’s not hard to see that people are out and about in the Bay Area, and most people would argue traffic has gone up in recent days.

...

There are no official numbers to back up people’s observations. But some people say they’re starting to encounter traffic in their communities again.

“Last week, week before, there was virtually no traffic encountered when you go out. And certainly today, there was probably a 50% increase in traffic,” said Mandel.

At Golden Gate Park, we noticed a lot of sunbathers, joggers, and cyclists.

“You can see today, the numbers are definitely increasing,” said Stern. “I’d probably say there’s 10 times more people here now than there were a month ago.”

“We are heading into better weather. So we are seeing with better weather, you’re going to see, you know, more people craving a little bit of outdoor time,” said San Francisco Recreation and Parks General Manager Phil Ginsburg.

...

On the freeway, we’re noticed afternoon traffic leaving from San Francisco to Oakland on the Bay Bridge Thursday, a sight we haven’t seen in a few weeks.

The Metropolitan Transportation Commission monitors all Bay Area bridges except for the Golden Gate Bridge. Their numbers don’t show an upward trend in the last month, suggesting while regional traffic is still stable, local traffic might be increasing.

“It’s getting nicer now and I think people just want to do what they can to get outside and release some of the energy,” said Stern.

Aside from nice weather, some believe as the health order drags out longer, the stay at home order is starting to wear out some people.”

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, wilrunner said:

I had someone tell me that HIV had been found in the Covid (DNA/RNA?) and thus is proof it is a man made virus. I don't know her source and couldn't find anything when I searched. Has anyone come across any info regarding this?

Looks like the French virologist who won a Nobel prize for discovering HIV has been saying it.  I can’t find a reliable English language source though. 

[Ausmumof3]

3 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Well, color me surprised. Someone actually studied this? Mind citing? 

I had to dig a bit but I think this was it.  I remember it being Indian.  Will post if i find anything better.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338957445_Uncanny_similarity_of_unique_inserts_in_the_2019-nCoV_spike_protein_to_HIV-1_gp120_and_Gag

again I’m not a biologist but from what I understand the chunk of similar DNA or RNA or whatever it wasn’t big enough to be significant and maybe common to other viruses as well.  It’s absolutely ages since I gave it any thought though so I may not have that straight.