wuhan - coronavirus

[Paige]

21 hours ago, TracyP said:

I hate to bring this thread down a flu bunny trail, but I'm reading this differently. At the end of a season 20% had antibodies (showing they had been infected by the flu.) However, 77% of them had not identified themselves as having flu like illness during that time period. The article says that this raises concerns about asymptomatic spread.

Could people have antibodies from past infections with similar strains?

For Vit. D- Is it possible that covid and other infections actively decrease the amount of vit d in a person, so low levels of vit D may be an effect rather than cause of infection? Of course, starting with a higher level before infection would help. I've read that liver, kidney, and gastro diseases can reduce vit d, so the very strong correlation may indicate the virus affects those body systems more directly than we have been thinking. We would have to have vit d levels in people before and after becoming infected to know if it's a cause or effect.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Paige

[The Governess]

Yes, and for the Vit D I would also like to know how many of those who died had diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. and how many of them were otherwise healthy but with a low vitamin D level. 

[Pen]

37 minutes ago, wilrunner said:

I remember reading about breathing issues as the virus takes hold in the body. My dd, a med school student who has been doing nasal and pharyngeal swabs for drive thru testing, has had a dry cough for the last couple of days. Last night, she coughed and said she didn't have shortness of breath, but had a hard time inhaling the next breath. Her description sounded like shortness of breath to me, but she was very specific that it wasn't. She was tested last Saturday before she had any symptoms because in her city everyone can be tested and she was curious about her exposure. They did the nasal swab only and it came back negative. However, this particular test is known for having false negatives. She has been in teletouch with her dr's partner, who is sending her for another test tomorrow. 

Her comments about breathing (not shortness of breath, but similar) rang a bell in my mind about how breathing changes with Covid. Do any of you remember any articles about this? I don't know if it was on this thread or elsewhere, but I'd like to send it to her. In my mind, as a med student, she knows things better than I do, but she's willing to listen to what I tell her. She was unfamiliar with the possible effects of Vit D until I mentioned it to her on Friday, then her dr. told her to start taking it yesterday. (In fact, the things her doctor told her were the same I'd told her to do. She thought that was funny.)

 

I can’t link an article, but her comments on breathing fit what I have heard from some interviews with CV19 survivors describing their symptoms.  It sounds like she probably has it despite test result.  And she certainly has something. 

Imo She should have a vitamin D level test done, ASAP too if as a med student she can easily get that and if she is having to be exposed already for other testing. 

[If It were me, I’d personally take an immediate 50,000 IU D3 dose... (the type that is on https://vitamindwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page_id=5217  which has tended to be well tolerated and absorbed ) but of course that can’t be recommended to anyone else since powers that be recommend only 4,000 IU as top amount...but it takes 18 months of daily 4,000IU to get to good level apparently, and we haven’t got 18 months to get ready.  (Btw, If She has just taken a 50,000 IU dose her blood levels would probably look excellent high though — even if they are actually low other than the one bolus dose. Anyway, I’d want to be at a 40ng/ml level or higher personally —the level that anecdotally a Doctor said no one he’s seen needing hospital has had a level at or above, or at 60ng/ml as iirc Dr von Helden suggested...though it is hard for me to get above 30 even with a lot of D3.) If it were me I’d use a zinc lozenge as per coronavirus researcher James Robb, probably also be keeping hydrated with something high in Quercitin like green tea (Quercitin can be synergistic or act as a zinc ionophore possibly). If it were me I’d also take some herbs that have been indicated by Stephen Buhner to be possibly of help (houttuynia and Japanese knotweed and some olive oil in my case, though he has a list of several). If C or Magnesium or anything else might be low I’d try to get my levels up. If I didn’t have AI issues I’d take some elderberry, and maybe even so. And even though I have melanoma risk I personally would probably try to carefully get some real sun if conditions allowed that—even through an open apartment window. (And WTH, I’d take a homeopathic aconite pellet or 3-5 for good measure unless I were very lactose intolerant, though that would have been my first thing at slightest sense of something coming on.) ]

 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, ElizabethB said:

Huge new numbers on vitamin D and deaths rates from an Indonesian study. Study: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3585561&download=yes

Any comments on my graph before I start spreading it on twitter?

 

 

The link isn’t working. 

I can understand the graph, but it took careful perusing.  

It does not come through in the easy way that the other graph did.  

I think maybe the tall lines for deficient and insufficient feel backwards for immediate easy infographic understanding.  ?   Or maybe it is a left to right problem where green should be out at right?

I also think the y-axis information and words like normal, deficient etc have too tiny and too light type (I am on cell phone, but so may many others be, and consider that vision of many low D elders declines, so the important stuff needs to pop out easily). 

Can it perhaps be reversed with 0% deaths at top of y axis and 100% deaths at bottom? Or some way that can help it to come through visually as indicating that high level of D, a big green bar, goes with high level of survival.   And visually that Low levels of D short red bars go with high death rates? 

 

[TracyP]

33 minutes ago, Paige said:

Could people have antibodies from past infections with similar strains?

 

Interesting question. I don't know the answer. I would guess that the number with antibodies would be much higher if they were picking up past infections.

I thought somebody on this thread said that it was relatively easy to create an antibody test that tested for a specific strain. Does anybody else remember that? That comment has me assuming that picking up different strains isn't generally a problem in any peer reviewed study - whether it be flu or coronavirus. 

[ElizabethB]

13 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

So 87.8% of people in hospitals with insufficient Vitamin D died?? Can you please link the study? 

 

Indonesia, yes, hugely higher death rates with lower D.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3585561#.XqWc-1XHXpM.twitter

[TravelingChris]

On 4/24/2020 at 3:09 PM, square_25 said:

Here's an interesting observation that recently occurred to me. If you look at the dates of the school closures and lockdowns, they are remarkably uniform all across the US -- most happened within 3 days or so. That means there wasn't much variation in regional response: instead, there was a stampede of all the governors doing largely the same thing. 

Looking at the data now, though, it's clear that a more nuanced response may very well have been good, since the rates in different places are so very different, and it doesn't make sense for a place with 1% of citizens infected to behave in the same way as a place that has 20%. 

So as it turned out, leaving things to local governments did NOT result in a truly nuanced response. In my opinion, what would have done so is a) more information and b) more coordination. 

That seems a bit counterintuitive, I know. It just occurred to me. 

One enormous aspect of this virus that has been missing from most discussions by public health officers is the roll of super spreaders- who are they (they have located some, and most importantly, figuring out what is biologically different with them because the actions they did were the same as millions of others have done.  And if we find what characterizes those people, or of course, once we indentify them. all those people need to be on prolonged quarantine with financial and other help given as needed.  They should not be pariahs unless they violate quarantine orders but they should be under quarantine and not just for 10 days or two weeks-----  they probably need to be under quarantine for 2 months at least.

[mathnerd]

Beach going season has officially gotten off to a big start in California:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-heat-wave-draws-large-crowds-beaches-despite-stay-home-n1192766

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by mathnerd

[ElizabethB]

Just now, square_25 said:

Here's hoping that it doesn't spread easily in the heat and outside, I guess. 

And that the gain in vitamin D will offset the severity for those that do get it.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, ElizabethB said:

Numbers now on graph.

 

That’s much better.  I like the patient numbers table.  Would still like bigger bolder wording under the graph bars and at the y-axis explanation.  Maybe “vitamin D deficient 98.9% death rate”

clear and bold right under that red bar

vitamin D normal-4.1% death rate right under its green bar. 

 

[ElizabethB]

39 minutes ago, TracyP said:

Interesting question. I don't know the answer. I would guess that the number with antibodies would be much higher if they were picking up past infections.

I thought somebody on this thread said that it was relatively easy to create an antibody test that tested for a specific strain. Does anybody else remember that? That comment has me assuming that picking up different strains isn't generally a problem in any peer reviewed study - whether it be flu or coronavirus. 

The Abbot/UW virology antibody test did not pick up other Coronaviruses, they tested for that, it is very accurate.

https://komonews.com/news/coronavirus/test-to-detect-covid-19-antibodies-ready-for-public-use-uw-researchers-say

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/univ-washington-ramps-abbott-labs-really-fantastic-test-covid-19-antibodies/

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Well, there are two things that might happen. There might not be a spike of cases (totally possible, since it IS hot and outside) and then perhaps they'll open more beaches. 

Or there will be a spike, and they'll close all of them. 

I'm hoping for option A, personally. It'd be good if this wasn't a big mode of spread. 

 

Maybe they could do some use of beaches based on last digit of social security number of the responsible person in the group...  and 31st of month for people at risk (and an attendant if any).  Don’t  know if people would comply.   

Some places in country don’t tend to have super crowded beaches, but I am picturing Far Rockaway or the Spring break madness... 

 

[mathnerd]

6 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

Yep. People aren't going to stay inside their often un air conditioned houses when there is a heatwave. Combine that with many beaches being closed, and people will pack into the few that are open. Keeping these places closed is not sustainable. 

I am keeping my fingers crossed that the 90+ degree heat totally evaporates and wipes out airborne droplets of COVID thereby protecting people who keep themselves 6 ft apart on those beaches. Hoping that the virus spread is not as bad as my logical brain is predicting it to be 😞

[Pen]

24 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Here's hoping that it doesn't spread easily in the heat and outside, I guess. 

 

I don’t think that heat at ordinary levels (versus boiling or autoclave or oven or IP etc ) has been shown to stop it.  Outdoors might be better than inside with more air to disperse virus in so that there is less virus per cubic foot.  But I think Italy was citing people for being out at all because it did seem to spread out of doors, not just indoors.

(it can survive quite hot temperatures one study showed... again no link now but iirc 70 deg celcius! ) 

UV from Sunlight though _does_ seem to inactivate the virus quite quickly. 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Pen

[Pen]

6 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I am keeping my fingers crossed that the 90+ degree heat totally evaporates and wipes out airborne droplets of COVID thereby protecting people who keep themselves 6 ft apart on those beaches. Hoping that the virus spread is not as bad as my logical brain is predicting it to be 😞

 

Some studies I saw, sorry can’t link now, had suggested that “dried out” may result in a worse situation with active virus particles in an easily dried out dustlike and air blown form (virus is obviously invisible but picture notes of dust swirling in air) instead of heavy in liquid and staying dropped to ground.    High humidity and moisture helped.  Dried out made it worse!!!

repeating my comment to someone else: 

I don’t think that heat at ordinary levels (versus boiling or autoclave or oven or IP etc ) has been shown to stop it.  Outdoors might be better than inside with more air to disperse virus in so that there is less virus per cubic foot.  But I think Italy was citing people for being out at all because it did seem to spread out of doors, not just indoors.

The good news however:

UV from Sunlight though _does_ seem to inactivate the virus quite quickly. 

[Pen]

Picture would be dry Motes of dust swirling, rather than say, washed down by a rain... not notes  of dust  😊

[ElizabethB]

@Pen

[Pen]

@ElizabethB  could you try linking to Indonesia study again?!? I would really like to read that!!

[Pen]

1 minute ago, ElizabethB said:

@Pen

 

 

Better!

Please make the “Normal” clearly refer to Vitamin D and black bold type.  It comes through as I see it as a very fine, light grey type, very hard to see. 

[Tree Frog]

2 hours ago, EmseB said:

She needs to find a pulse ox and check her sats. She will know this but anything less than 90 is ER territory. Normally you'd feel awful or be really struggling with low levels but covid patients are showing up to ERs with crazy low levels but not being obviously in trouble except for faster breathing. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html

This was the article I'd sent her a couple of days ago when I was telling her the Covid pneumonia was different from standard pneumonias. I'll include it again when I send her my suggestion for the pulse ox. Her roommate is a pharm tech at the local HEB and might be able to get her one. Otherwise, I''ll check on Amazon.

[Tree Frog]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

I can’t link an article, but her comments on breathing fit what I have heard from some interviews with CV19 survivors describing their symptoms.  It sounds like she probably has it despite test result.  And she certainly has something. 

Imo She should have a vitamin D level test done, ASAP too if as a med student she can easily get that and if she is having to be exposed already for other testing. 

[If It were me, I’d personally take an immediate 50,000 IU D3 dose... (the type that is on https://vitamindwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page_id=5217  which has tended to be well tolerated and absorbed ) but of course that can’t be recommended to anyone else since powers that be recommend only 4,000 IU as top amount...but it takes 18 months of daily 4,000IU to get to good level apparently, and we haven’t got 18 months to get ready.  (Btw, If She has just taken a 50,000 IU dose her blood levels would probably look excellent high though — even if they are actually low other than the one bolus dose. Anyway, I’d want to be at a 40ng/ml level or higher personally —the level that anecdotally a Doctor said no one he’s seen needing hospital has had a level at or above, or at 60ng/ml as iirc Dr von Helden suggested...though it is hard for me to get above 30 even with a lot of D3.) If it were me I’d use a zinc lozenge as per coronavirus researcher James Robb, probably also be keeping hydrated with something high in Quercitin like green tea (Quercitin can be synergistic or act as a zinc ionophore possibly). If it were me I’d also take some herbs that have been indicated by Stephen Buhner to be possibly of help (houttuynia and Japanese knotweed and some olive oil in my case, though he has a list of several). If C or Magnesium or anything else might be low I’d try to get my levels up. If I didn’t have AI issues I’d take some elderberry, and maybe even so. And even though I have melanoma risk I personally would probably try to carefully get some real sun if conditions allowed that—even through an open apartment window. (And WTH, I’d take a homeopathic aconite pellet or 3-5 for good measure unless I were very lactose intolerant, though that would have been my first thing at slightest sense of something coming on.) ]

 

She has been quarantining herself since the cough started and was disinfecting whenever she left her room with the expectation she has it, despite the neg test. The D3 arrived today, so hopefully she's already started it. The C and Zinc are on their way and she'll start as soon as they arrive. It's possible her roommate is able to pick some up from work. Thank you for the other recs. I'll forward the paragraph to her.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I hope that this isn't a stupid question.  But if COVID19 (and other viruses) only last on a surface (including fabric or other materials) for a certain period of time.  Why can't disposable masks be used and then put aside for whatever period that is and then used again? 

[Paige]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

These are bizarre numbers. More than half of their male patients died, too. I would really like to know exactly WHO these patients are. No Western country is going to have more than half of their males die. And only 60 didn't have a comorbidity. And they didn't make it clear what those comorbidities were. 

I don’t think you should read into it that more than half of their males died but that half of the dead were males. It says they got records from the government but it’s unclear how representative those records are- if it is a full population of all cases whether they lived or died, or a sample. 

 

 

[RootAnn]

2 hours ago, ElizabethB said:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3585561#.XqWc-1XHXpM.twitter

@Pen I don't know if @ElizabethB fixed her first post where the link didn't work, but she's linked it a couple times since, too. It is also in the Scientific progress thread, I think.

I haven't read the study yet, @square_25, but I remember reading a recent statistic from some place in the US that some huge percentage of COVID patients who are put on a ventilator have died. If these study participants are sick enough to be in the hospital, maybe they just have a large mortality rate in Indonesia? (Worldometers has a 8% death/positive test rate for them now so that doesn't seem to be the case. Hmm.)

Edited April 26, 2020 by RootAnn

[Paige]

2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Well, half of the males in these records died, yes? 

Kind of? But they weren’t tracking who came in and seeing who then died or did not die. I don’t think it’s the same thing. Then you have 33% of the expired sample were female.

I’m not at all surprised to see that 60ish% of the dead were male. That would be 60% of the low percent who die. I am surprised to see that 80ish percent of the active cases are female but it could reflect that Indonesian females have a much higher infection rate or poor sampling. 

[RootAnn]

Okay, took a few minutes to skim the Indonesian study. I don't like it for several reasons, but yeah, almost half the people In the study died (380/780) and the rest were mostly still in the hospital when this study was published. So, the lower Vit D (mostly older, mostly male, mostly having pre-existing condition) patients died quickly.

The younger, less-pre-existing-conditions, more female group has so far not died. But they are still in the hospital and might still die (or have died since the study was completed).

Nope. I love Vitamin D, but I can't hang my hat on this study.

Edited to add:  What this tells me is that males in Indonesia are more likely to have low Vit D and that if you have low Vit D, live in Indonesia, catch Covid-19, and are male that you will most likely die quickly.

Edited April 26, 2020 by RootAnn

[Acadie]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I hope that this isn't a stupid question.  But if COVID19 (and other viruses) only last on a surface (including fabric or other materials) for a certain period of time.  Why can't disposable masks be used and then put aside for whatever period that is and then used again? 

 

I do this for my once-a-week shopping trip. I have one surgical mask I wear to the store, then take it off and store in a paper bag until the following week. But I'm wearing it for only 30-40 minutes, not exerting myself, and the mask still looks pristine.

Are you wondering if health care providers could do this? I think disposable surgical masks can get soaked and beat up when worn in a work environment and the layers may lose integrity and no longer function.

N95s, which are heavier duty, are being decontaminated for reuse by the thousands in the new hydrogen peroxide systems made by Battelle.  

https://www.battelle.org/inb/battelle-critical-care-decontamination-system-for-covid19 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Acadie

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, square_25 said:

These are bizarre numbers. More than half of their male patients died, too. I would really like to know exactly WHO these patients are. No Western country is going to have more than half of their males die. And only 60 didn't have a comorbidity. And they didn't make it clear what those comorbidities were. 

Indonesia seemed to have a lot of denial and low testing rates for a long time.  I haven’t looked into it closely but they kind of went from having “no cases” to “doctors are dying” really quickly.  

[Matryoshka]

55 minutes ago, Paige said:

Kind of? But they weren’t tracking who came in and seeing who then died or did not die. I don’t think it’s the same thing. Then you have 33% of the expired sample were female.

I’m not at all surprised to see that 60ish% of the dead were male. That would be 60% of the low percent who die. I am surprised to see that 80ish percent of the active cases are female but it could reflect that Indonesian females have a much higher infection rate or poor sampling. 

If it's that over 50% of the people who died were male, not over 50% of the male cases died (those are two very different statements), then that makes sense.  Almost everywhere I've seen stats for, males die at much higher rates from Covid than women (and perhaps more striking because I've also seen stats from other places that more diagnosed cases are women).

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I hope that this isn't a stupid question.  But if COVID19 (and other viruses) only last on a surface (including fabric or other materials) for a certain period of time.  Why can't disposable masks be used and then put aside for whatever period that is and then used again? 

I think because the high levels of moisture they retain leads to growth of mould and bacteria.  So they might be safe for COVID but create other risks for the wearers.

[Matryoshka]

45 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I just mean, out of the people in this group, half the males died? That seems to be in one of the charts. Isn't there a chart of what percentage of people in each group died? 

Yikes, from that it also looks like over half the people over age 50 died.  Am I reading that wrong?  Are the death rates in Indonesia that far outside the norm for this?

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

Well, there are two things that might happen. There might not be a spike of cases (totally possible, since it IS hot and outside) and then perhaps they'll open more beaches. 

Or there will be a spike, and they'll close all of them. 

I'm hoping for option A, personally. It'd be good if this wasn't a big mode of spread. 

There was a cluster here near Bondi.

obviously could be linked to more international travel, eating and backpacker accommodation rather than beach going specifically.  Intuitively the beach doesn’t seem like a place to get it but when they’re crazily crowded maybe.  Or from the food places and the toilets.  

[RootAnn]

Edited:  Yeah, @Matryoshka. That's what we're talking about.

Edited April 26, 2020 by RootAnn

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Yikes, from that it also looks like over half the people over age 50 died.  Am I reading that wrong?  Are the death rates in Indonesia that far outside the norm for this?

They had “zero cases” for a long time when experts were sitting back saying there’s no way they could have had zero cases so I suspect they have really low testing and detection rates.  The Aus media follows them a bit because it’s a really popular tourist destination and lots of Australians were still heading there right up till the travel bans.

[Matryoshka]

11 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Edited:  Yeah, @Matryoshka. That's what we're talking about.

Yeah, the first thing I posted was before I saw the linked chart... 😶

[EmseB]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

Re the beaches: as an example, they closed playgrounds in New York City, and no one is rebelling, because most people just want this DONE. Not that anyone is happy about how things are, but there aren't protests. People are much more discontented upstate, I think, because the measures feel less proportionate to the problem. 

So what I'm hoping is that beach closure never feels like the right thing to people. Especially since the point when things feel like "the right time" to people is often too late.  

My understanding with playgrounds is a worry of touching climbing equipment and such by tons of kids and spreading things that way. Did they close Central Park or other parks that don't have playground equipment?

[Pen]

2 hours ago, ElizabethB said:

Indonesia, yes, hugely higher death rates with lower D.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3585561#.XqWc-1XHXpM.twitter

 

Thank you!!! It worked this time.  

[Paige]

24 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Yikes, from that it also looks like over half the people over age 50 died.  Am I reading that wrong?  Are the death rates in Indonesia that far outside the norm for this?

No. It looks like that because they are using comparison groups. It's a retrospective study. 60% of the dead are male not 60% of the cases died. None of the cases were actively followed by the researchers. They asked the gvmt for data groups- one group was of already dead cases, one group was still alive at the point the data was released. Nobody followed those still alive to see if they eventually died. 

The data is still odd because of the over representation of females in the alive group but it does not necessarily follow that 60% of male Indonesian covid patients died. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

Yeah, no Western study is going to get anything like these numbers. 

I'd like to have all the comorbidity information as well. And if at all possible, baseline Vitamin D from before COVID, in case it's really the sickness making their levels lower. 

 

It would tend to make sense that sickness will deplete levels of various vitamins, minerals, etc that the body needs to fight the sickness.

I think I have read that for both Vitamin C and Vitamin D — similar to stress seeming to result in Vitamin B depletion. 

That isn’t a good argument against the importance of the (vitamin, mineral, whatever). Quite the opposite could be true.  

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, Paige said:

No. It looks like that because they are using comparison groups. It's a retrospective study. 60% of the dead are male not 60% of the cases died. None of the cases were actively followed by the researchers. They asked the gvmt for data groups- one group was of already dead cases, one group was still alive at the point the data was released. Nobody followed those still alive to see if they eventually died. 

The data is still odd because of the over representation of females in the alive group but it does not necessarily follow that 60% of male Indonesian covid patients died. 

 

From stats I have seen from elsewhere, males are more likely to get CV19 ( May have to do with ACE receptors as X chromosome related so that females with two X chromosomes are a little better off in that regard, as it seems true even for children ... where lifestyle factors probably are less significant ), and more likely to die of it than females— until the very old group when females are more represented in death numbers, but thought to be because there are more living female nonagenarians and centagenarians in first place. 

I would read it as 60% of the dead CV19 were male.   Most likely. 

Or possibly that only very sick patients are admitted to hospital and considered in stats at all. 

[Pen]

36 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

They had “zero cases” for a long time when experts were sitting back saying there’s no way they could have had zero cases so I suspect they have really low testing and detection rates.  The Aus media follows them a bit because it’s a really popular tourist destination and lots of Australians were still heading there right up till the travel bans.

 

Also iirc Indonesia was being used as a back door to get into Australia from places that Australia had put travel bans for...   like how uni students from China could get around travel bans     Wasn’t it???

[ElizabethB]

47 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Yikes, from that it also looks like over half the people over age 50 died.  Am I reading that wrong?  Are the death rates in Indonesia that far outside the norm for this?

I think they just looked at hospitalized people.

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Also iirc Indonesia was being used as a back door to get into Australia from places that Australia had put travel bans for...   like how uni students from China could get around travel bans     Wasn’t it???

Yes

[RootAnn]

Our playgrounds & parks are closed, but walking trails are open. The way my neighbors act, though, my town is likely spreading it if anyone has it. Very little social distancing except for my kids & one other family.

[ElizabethB]

I have a new one page vitamin D handout in my vitamin D information thread for those interested.

 

[The Governess]

Just wanted to share this CA initiative because I think it’s so cool:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/24/gov-newsom-california-will-pay-restaurants-to-make-deliver-meals-to-senior-citizens/amp/

If this works the way it should, it will support farm workers, local farms, restaurants and restaurant workers, and provide seniors with up to three meals per day (and face-to-face contact for these seniors as well). 

Some local farms here are plowing under crops due to disruptions to the supply chain, etc. I would really love to see this make a difference if they can get it up and running fast enough.

[Ausmumof3]

21 minutes ago, StellaM said:

Dd's coronavirus swab came back negative, thank goodness.

Thanks for the twitter links, @Ausmumof3.

 

Yay!  Relieved for you

[Ausmumof3]

9 minutes ago, lovelearnandlive said:

Just wanted to share this CA initiative because I think it’s so cool:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/24/gov-newsom-california-will-pay-restaurants-to-make-deliver-meals-to-senior-citizens/amp/

If this works the way it should, it will support farm workers, local farms, restaurants and restaurant workers, and provide seniors with up to three meals per day (and face-to-face contact for these seniors as well). 

Some local farms here are plowing under crops due to disruptions to the supply chain, etc. I would really love to see this make a difference if they can get it up and running fast enough.

Excellent idea!

do you guys have meals on wheels or similar there?

[Pen]

 

Indonesia study.

 I find myself confused by where it says “ a majority” then cites a percent under 50%    I’ll try to bold the sort of thing I mean in excerpt below: 

Can’t bold within excerpt, but here are quotes examples:

   “majority of the cases had normal Vitamin D status (49.7%)”

Of the 213 cases with insufficient Vitamin D status, majority (49.1%) died. The same distribution was observed in Vitamin D deficient cases where majority (46.7%) died due to the disease.

And the percents in brackets don’t seem to fit with the numbers in tables.   ????

 

“RESULTS AND DISCUSSION
Descriptive Statistics
The demographic and clinical characteristics of two cohorts (active and expired) are presented (Table 1). Mean overall age was 54.5 years, mean age for expired cases was 65.2 years, higher compared to active cases (46.3 years). Of the 780 sample, majority (58.8%) aged below 50 years, most of the them (83.0%) are still admitted in the hospital. Of the 321 samples aged 50 years and above, majority (66.6%) died due to the disease. Females (51.3%) outnumbered males (48.7%); however, there were more male cases who died (66.6%) than female (33.4%). Patients with existing condition (84.9%) comprised majority of the death cases. Interestingly, majority of the cases had normal Vitamin D status (49.7%), most of them (93.0%) are still hospitalized. Of the 213 cases with insufficient Vitamin D status, majority (49.1%) died. The same distribution was observed in Vitamin D deficient cases where majority (46.7%) died due to the disease.
Univariate Analysis
Each predictor was separately analyzed using univariate logistic regression (Table 2). Older cases (50 years and above) were approximately 10.45 times more likely to die than younger cases (at most 50 years) (OR=10.45; p<0.001). Male cases were
Disclaimer: This is a preliminary study for early dissemination of results. Data are subject to changes.
 approximately 5.73 times more likely to die from the disease than female cases (OR=5.73; p<0.001). Meanwhile, cases with pre- existing condition had increased odds of mortality compared to cases without (OR=11.24; p<0.001).

 

With reference to normal cases, Vitamin D insufficient cases were approximately 12.55 times more likely to die (OR=12.55; p<0.001) while Vitamin D deficient cases were approximately 19.12 times more likely to die from the disease (OR=19.12; p<0.001).
 

 

 

[Pen]

16 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Excellent idea!

do you guys have meals on wheels or similar there?

 

Yes, but very different in different places (excellent in some areas in poor in others... possibly exact opposite of where needed, as places with many people  in need of meals on wheels tend to lack people to do it, and places with plenty of young healthy volunteers to do it tend to lack the people who need the services.  (Because communities tend to have lots of older and disabled people living in different areas than younger single people and well families.).   And in bad CV19 areas, it also seems in somewhat of a mess due to the CV19 situation ...   volunteers more afraid...

I think working out restaurants is great.  I saw that was being done in UK.  Glad California started it, and hope other places will follow .