Would you do something?

[SKL]

I would not say a kid is "dumb" for being friends with a drug user.  I was majorly prudish (and smart), and yet I had friends who were into drugs.  In one case, I was likely the kid's only friend, and she had a rough family life, so she needed someone who cared.  I was never tempted to "use" and she never pushed me to.  I have no regrets.

I did say I would have a hard time letting the kid described in the OP into my house.  However, as long as he himself were not pushing / attempting to influence my son, I would let them hang out.  But - especially given that Dawn is a school teacher - I would probably either make them hang somewhere else, or watch them the whole time they were over.

Edited October 30, 2019 by SKL

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

 

More than 20 years ago when I went to college my dad, a cop, called me and gave me a drug lecture.  Never try meth or crack or heroin, not even once, because you;ll get addicted to it the first time.  He went through a variety of other drugs, cocaine and ecstasy being two, and basically said it might be okay if you know the person dealing it, and at the end of this long talk I really didn't want to hear he said, "Smoke all the pot you want.  It'll just make you fat."    

and 1ds's gf's father is a detective.  pot was included in the "No way" column for his lecture.

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

Firstly, if my dc were dumb enough to try to be friends with the kid, then I'd be really disappointed in them. What is next on the cannabis products this kid will try to push on your son, cannabis laced chocolate, beverages and candy? It's only a matter of time would be my guess. 

 

Wow, that’s harsh. You would be disappointed in your kid because he had a long term friend whose older brother started dealing marijuana?

So the 15yo boy shouldn’t have friends because of what his older brother is doing, and anyone who would be friends with him is “dumb?” That makes no sense at all to me. 

I can absolutely understand starting to question the friendship if the younger brother starts following in his older brother’s footsteps, but this is not a brand new friendship, so even if that’s the case, I can certainly see how this would be a very difficult situation for both Dawn and her son. Also, it sounds like the 15yo is involved in a messy family situation, so if Dawn has known and liked the kid for years, should she and her son simply abandon him when he may need friends and mentors now more than ever? 

Again, if the 15yo has changed and is becoming a bad influence on Dawn’s son, I would encourage Dawn’s son to back away from the friendship, but I wouldn’t abandon the kid if his only crime is being part of a messed-up family.

 

Edited to add — Sorry about the weird italics! I can’t get them to go away! 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Catwoman

[wintermom]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

 

Wow.  So my kid is dumb and I should be disappointed in him?  Really?

My kid has been BFFs with this kid for many years, long before the drugs came into the family.   This isn't a "I made friends with a druggie" situation.  

I said my kid. Of course, your kid is not mine. Have you talked with him about how it is time to day bye-bye to his "friend" who is pushing his product on him?

[ktgrok]

I would not report anything, because I see little to no good coming of it, and perhaps a lot of bad. Not only would I not want a crooked cop targeting ME for retribution, I REALLY wouldn't want a cop with ethics issues targeting my TEEN for retribution. Too easy for a bad cop to totally screw up my young son's entire future over say, some planted evidence. Nope. No way. 

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

I said my kid. Of course, your kid is not mine. Have you talked with him about how it is time to day bye-bye to his "friend" who is pushing his product on him?

 

The insinuation was there, and I don't believe for a minute that you didn't mean it as it sounded.

Not addressing the rest because I didn't ask how to parent.  I asked about the FATHER and how to handle that part.

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by DawnM

[unsinkable]

Well, I'm going to throw caution to the wind and say:

This could be a bigger "dealer" situation than you know. 

The dad could be a part of the drug dealing and providing protection and cover for the son.

Or it could become bigger at any moment bc whomever is providing the pot to the son can blackmail him and/or the dad into getting in deeper with other drugs and more criminal activity. "Do this or we'll turn your dad in to his chief."

 I'd try to extract my son from the relationship. It sounds like it your son is uncomfortable with the drug use and they are no longer at the same school so it might be a natural place that the friendship would fizzle anyway.

[QueenCat]

If you ban the 15 y.o. from your house, the dad will KNOW it was you that reported. And it doesn't sound like you want to. Your family might be the best thing for the kid.

Edited October 30, 2019 by QueenCat

[wintermom]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

The insinuation was there, and I don't believe for a minute that you didn't mean it as it sounded.

Not addressing the rest because I didn't ask how to parent.  I asked about the FATHER and how to handle that part.

 

Now you're being overly defensive.  Do what you wanna do; Go where you wanna go. Why poll the "world" if you don't want comments?

[DawnM]

24 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Now you're being overly defensive.  Do what you wanna do; Go where you wanna go. Why poll the "world" if you don't want comments?

No, you are being overly rude.  I didn't ask for your commentary, I only asked what you would do about the FATHER.

Your comments about how dumb "your" kids would be if they acted like my kid are unnecessary.

[DawnM]

2 hours ago, QueenCat said:

If you ban the 15 y.o. from your house, the dad will KNOW it was you that reported. And it doesn't sound like you want to. Your family might be the best thing for the kid.

 

Yeah, I go back and forth with that.  I feel that this kid has been spiraling further down the wrong path in the last few months.  That concerns me.

If he figures out I reported him I am getting a little more ok with that.  BUT, I also know his kids tend to share their dirty laundry with many, so they may not suspect us.  I am not sure.

 

[Melissa in Australia]

I would report it

 

[Catwoman]

41 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Now you're being overly defensive.  Do what you wanna do; Go where you wanna go. Why poll the "world" if you don't want comments?

 

I don’t think Dawn is being overly defensive. I have to admit that when I read the sentence I quoted below from your post, my immediate reaction was that you were saying that Dawn’s son must be pretty stupid if he would have a friend like that kid. 

I realize that you were talking about how you would react if your own kid was in that situation, but it came across as though you would feel the same way about Dawn’s son, so I can understand why she got annoyed about it.

7 hours ago, wintermom said:

Firstly, if my dc were dumb enough to try to be friends with the kid, then I'd be really disappointed in them.

 

I don’t know if I’m making sense. I’m just trying to explain that even though you weren’t trying to be mean and you were probably just posting your quick, initial reaction to the thread, it would have been very easy for someone who doesn’t know you very well to get the impression that you were saying that Dawn’s son wasn’t very bright if he was friends with that boy.

 

[Bluegoat]

4 hours ago, unsinkable said:

Well, I'm going to throw caution to the wind and say:

This could be a bigger "dealer" situation than you know. 

The dad could be a part of the drug dealing and providing protection and cover for the son.

Or it could become bigger at any moment bc whomever is providing the pot to the son can blackmail him and/or the dad into getting in deeper with other drugs and more criminal activity. "Do this or we'll turn your dad in to his chief."

 I'd try to extract my son from the relationship. It sounds like it your son is uncomfortable with the drug use and they are no longer at the same school so it might be a natural place that the friendship would fizzle anyway.

 

This is what I'm wondering too.  I've known a couple of dealers I went to school with, and they sold pot pretty openly, but it wasn't where they made their money.   It's not like the suppliers are totally separate streams for pot and other drugs, so the pressure and lure of bigger money will be there unless it's really a tiny local operation.  And there can be a lot of temptation for people in policing, they get exposed to a lot of individuals who are seriously into this stuff and the money is so huge.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

 

Yeah, I go back and forth with that.  I feel that this kid has been spiraling further down the wrong path in the last few months.  That concerns me.

If he figures out I reported him I am getting a little more ok with that.  BUT, I also know his kids tend to share their dirty laundry with many, so they may not suspect us.  I am not sure.

 

But would your son be okay with that? Consider the ways a cop with ethics issues could ruin your son's life with very little effort. 

[katilac]

I said that I probably wouldn't report (certainly not to the precinct) but I do think there is a whole lot of room for reasonable people to disagree in this situation. There are some things that would convince me to report, possibly including just a gut feeling. But I would struggle mightily with cutting off my son's best friend of many years because he has smoke pot. 

I also think there are a whole lot of parents who are underestimating how many teens use pot or other drugs, lol. The vast majority of teens are at least casual friends with someone who uses drugs at least occasionally. Yes, I'm including the 'good' kids, the sheltered kids, the pastor's kids, the cop's kids, and the homeschooled kids who are only away from mom during youth group and Christian co op. 

[easypeasy]

3 hours ago, katilac said:

I said that I probably wouldn't report (certainly not to the precinct) but I do think there is a whole lot of room for reasonable people to disagree in this situation. There are some things that would convince me to report, possibly including just a gut feeling. But I would struggle mightily with cutting off my son's best friend of many years because he has smoke pot. 

I also think there are a whole lot of parents who are underestimating how many teens use pot or other drugs, lol. The vast majority of teens are at least casual friends with someone who uses drugs at least occasionally. Yes, I'm including the 'good' kids, the sheltered kids, the pastor's kids, the cop's kids, and the homeschooled kids who are only away from mom during youth group and Christian co op. 

 

agreeing. I wouldn't report because the possibility of the backlash would be more than I want to deal with. I'd limit my kids' interactions at their home in case someone ELSE called it in, I wouldn't want my ds to be in the midst of that drama.

And - agreeing that a lot of parents out there underestimate how many teens are using pot. Cause... it's a lot. A lotta lot. In my own kids' very varied friend circles (which includes a lot of pastor's kids, sheltered homeschooled kids, rich kids, poor kids, etc) - I'd say it's 90%. Easily. My oldest has the fewest friends who do drugs - but that's because she's an athlete and they have drug tests pop up at a moment's notice (many of those friends tend to drink heavily, though, so interesting trade-off). The younger two with fewer athletic friends? Whoo boy. Vaping the stuff has been a gamechanger. Once that became a "thing," it seemed most of the kids had no more reasons to not try the stuff. They use Venmo and *poof* like magic! There it is! lol

[wintermom]

8 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I realize that you were talking about how you would react if your own kid was in that situation, but it came across as though you would feel the same way about Dawn’s son, so I can understand why she got annoyed about it.

I don’t know if I’m making sense. I’m just trying to explain that even though you weren’t trying to be mean and you were probably just posting your quick, initial reaction to the thread, it would have been very easy for someone who doesn’t know you very well to get the impression that you were saying that Dawn’s son wasn’t very bright if he was friends with that boy.

I feel zero about Dawn's son. I don't know him and haven't been parenting him for the last 15 years. All I can comment on is my own feelings based on my 19 years parenting. I'd be disappointed if my own son chose to spend time with drug users. That is honestly how I'd feel. It has no judgement value on Dawn's situation at all. It makes no difference if the parents of the drug user was a doctor, police officer or what ever. This is strictly about my son's choices in life. If he makes wise choices about who to spend time with and what influences he chooses to have in his life on a regular basis, there is a much better chance he will reach his academic and personal goals. He doesn't need extra drama and craziness in his life, nor do I as his parent. 

[DawnM]

8 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

But would your son be okay with that? Consider the ways a cop with ethics issues could ruin your son's life with very little effort. 

 

No, I told him I did it.  I told him I am DONE with dealing with this.  He doesn't live or work near us, so I am not worried.  Like I said in my first post, there is a lot more to the story, and I am just done.  Most likely he will think it is his Ex-wife who called, but if he finds out it is me, we will deal with it.  

At this point, I can even add in, "I spoke to a police officer before calling and he strongly suggested I make the call because of your blatent  disregard for the law.  And what happened to you getting drug help for your son?  All of a sudden it is honkie dory that your son uses and sells?  He hasn't changed since we talked about getting him help and you asked me for references for rehab."

Truth is, he was being leaned on about his son's drug use by some other officers and he was worried about getting in trouble, so he feigned looking for help until it died down and then dropped it like a hot potato.  

Edited October 31, 2019 by DawnM

[DawnM]

31 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I feel zero about Dawn's son. I don't know him and haven't been parenting him for the last 15 years. All I can comment on is my own feelings based on my 19 years parenting. I'd be disappointed if my own son chose to spend time with drug users. That is honestly how I'd feel. It has no judgement value on Dawn's situation at all. It makes no difference if the parents of the drug user was a doctor, police officer or what ever. This is strictly about my son's choices in life. If he makes wise choices about who to spend time with and what influences he chooses to have in his life on a regular basis, there is a much better chance he will reach his academic and personal goals. He doesn't need extra drama and craziness in his life, nor do I as his parent. 

 

Once again, my son has been friends with him for FIVE YEARS.  This is not a new relationship.  And once again, there is a huge value judgement.  If my son is so stupid to be like Dawn's son and you added in that perhaps it was my parenting because you are not the kind of parent who would have a kid making the same choices.   Feel free to keep going with your digs if you like, but it is not overly  defensive to keep addressing this on my part nor are you painting any better of a picture by continuing to explain yourself.

And just for the record, not that I should have to explain myself here, prior to the divorce, the family was actually pretty drama free.  The divorce is nasty, nasty, nasty, and that is when all the drama started.  My parenting skills are in tact, my AP straight A student is not dumb, and being defensive about being called names and needing to say something is honestly how I feel.  

 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by DawnM

[ktgrok]

48 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

No, I told him I did it.  I told him I am DONE with dealing with this.  He doesn't live or work near us, so I am not worried.  Like I said in my first post, there is a lot more to the story, and I am just done.  Most likely he will think it is his Ex-wife who called, but if he finds out it is me, we will deal with it.  

At this point, I can even add in, "I spoke to a police officer before calling and he strongly suggested I make the call because of your blatent  disregard for the law.  And what happened to you getting drug help for your son?  All of a sudden it is honkie dory that your son uses and sells?  He hasn't changed since we talked about getting him help and you asked me for references for rehab."

Truth is, he was being leaned on about his son's drug use by some other officers and he was worried about getting in trouble, so he feigned looking for help until it died down and then dropped it like a hot potato.  

So you did report? 

I just am not sure what you think will change for the better with reporting. And as I said, I'd be very wary of making an enemy of a cop, even one a bit further away - at least around here all LEO for the general area know each other, or rather, cooperate with each other. It would be so easy for him or his son to frame your kid by planting evidence. And in "he said/he said" many judges will believe the cops, not the kid. Be cautious. If you have in fact reported it I think that is an even larger reason for your kid to stay far far away from his friend and the family. 

[J-rap]

Apart from the shifty dad and all of that, I'm surprised by some reactions against ds even being friends with the younger brother.  Surely, I'd be discussing this with my ds, and often.  At the same time, a teen using pot now then -- even though I believe it's wrong and dumb  -- doesn't necessarily mean he is a terrible friend.   I grew up with kids -- some of my closest friends -- who began using pot in high school.  We remained close friends and I was never tempted myself.  I had my personal boundaries and was never with them when they used it.  Eventually they all pulled out of it (probably sometime during or after college), and we remain good friends today.  They are really solid, decent, kind people.

Granted, there's a lot more going on here given that the home situation is unstable and parent can't be trusted.  I'm just talking about having a friend who occasionally uses pot.

Also, clearly, if friend kept pressuring ds to use it, or I was worried about my ds' strength of character, and a number of other things, I'd probably view it differently.

[ktgrok]

Some stats on drug/alcohol use https://www.hhs.gov/ash/oah/adolescent-development/substance-use/marijuana/index.html

[unsinkable]

5 hours ago, easypeasy said:

 

agreeing. I wouldn't report because the possibility of the backlash would be more than I want to deal with. I'd limit my kids' interactions at their home in case someone ELSE called it in, I wouldn't want my ds to be in the midst of that drama.

And - agreeing that a lot of parents out there underestimate how many teens are using pot. Cause... it's a lot. A lotta lot. In my own kids' very varied friend circles (which includes a lot of pastor's kids, sheltered homeschooled kids, rich kids, poor kids, etc) - I'd say it's 90%. Easily. My oldest has the fewest friends who do drugs - but that's because she's an athlete and they have drug tests pop up at a moment's notice (many of those friends tend to drink heavily, though, so interesting trade-off). The younger two with fewer athletic friends? Whoo boy. Vaping the stuff has been a gamechanger. Once that became a "thing," it seemed most of the kids had no more reasons to not try the stuff. They use Venmo and *poof* like magic! There it is! lol

90% of the kids you know or your kids know are using pot?

That is so far outside of the commonly cited statistics that I wonder where you live? It sounds like a horribly toxic ( both literally and figurativly) environment for kids, I wouldn't want to live there.

[SKL]

Yeah, I honestly have no idea how much pot use happens in my kids' social peer group.  Right now, they go to a Lutheran school.  They have told me there is at least one kid in their 8th grade class who has "vaped" (she came from a different school in the past few years).  The way they mention it, you can tell they consider it somewhat of a scandal.

Next year, my kids will transfer to the public high school.  We'll see what that means in this regard.

When I was a kid in Lutheran elementary school, I knew at least one family in the school had some drug stuff going on.  Also I knew of it in our working-class city neighborhood.  My older brothers did more than know about it.  The things we all got into would horrify my kids if they knew.  😛

In 8th grade, my family moved to a rural community / small village.  We attended a school that served many communities.  The population was diverse - a fair % of kids definitely used drugs and/or alcohol, but I believe it was still a minority who used it with any regularity.  (I don't consider trying it once to be "using.")

I remember as a kid hearing people say that drugs are everywhere, and that every kid who wants drugs knows exactly where to get them.  I found it strange, because I actually did not know who the drug dealers / sources were.  I guess I could have asked around if I felt the desire.  Though my prudishness alienated most of my drug-using friends before the end of 8th grade.  I would be afraid that anyone I asked would report me, whether out of concern or spite.

Along these lines - does anyone have their kid read the book "Go Ask Alice"?  It was very popular when I was middle-school age.  I recently saw a movie that was made from it (thanks to YouTube).  I wondered if this was something our kids should read or not.  Or is there a newer book that youths read now?

[Sneezyone]

12 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

But would your son be okay with that? Consider the ways a cop with ethics issues could ruin your son's life with very little effort. 

 

I wouldn't hesitate to have a bad cop removed from the force not just for my kid but for all people. We're seeing some real profiles in courage these days. We need more of that, not less.

[Scarlett]

45 minutes ago, SKL said:

Yeah, I honestly have no idea how much pot use happens in my kids' social peer group.  Right now, they go to a Lutheran school.  They have told me there is at least one kid in their 8th grade class who has "vaped" (she came from a different school in the past few years).  The way they mention it, you can tell they consider it somewhat of a scandal.

Next year, my kids will transfer to the public high school.  We'll see what that means in this regard.

When I was a kid in Lutheran elementary school, I knew at least one family in the school had some drug stuff going on.  Also I knew of it in our working-class city neighborhood.  My older brothers did more than know about it.  The things we all got into would horrify my kids if they knew.  😛

In 8th grade, my family moved to a rural community / small village.  We attended a school that served many communities.  The population was diverse - a fair % of kids definitely used drugs and/or alcohol, but I believe it was still a minority who used it with any regularity.  (I don't consider trying it once to be "using.")

I remember as a kid hearing people say that drugs are everywhere, and that every kid who wants drugs knows exactly where to get them.  I found it strange, because I actually did not know who the drug dealers / sources were.  I guess I could have asked around if I felt the desire.  Though my prudishness alienated most of my drug-using friends before the end of 8th grade.  I would be afraid that anyone I asked would report me, whether out of concern or spite.

Along these lines - does anyone have their kid read the book "Go Ask Alice"?  It was very popular when I was middle-school age.  I recently saw a movie that was made from it (thanks to YouTube).  I wondered if this was something our kids should read or not.  Or is there a newer book that youths read now?

I do remember that!  I also remember 'That was Then This is Now".  That book haunted me for years.

[Sneezyone]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

Once again, my son has been friends with him for FIVE YEARS.  This is not a new relationship.  And once again, there is a huge value judgement.  If my son is so stupid to be like Dawn's son and you added in that perhaps it was my parenting because you are not the kind of parent who would have a kid making the same choices.   Feel free to keep going with your digs if you like, but it is not overly  defensive to keep addressing this on my part nor are you painting any better of a picture by continuing to explain yourself.

And just for the record, not that I should have to explain myself here, prior to the divorce, the family was actually pretty drama free.  The divorce is nasty, nasty, nasty, and that is when all the drama started.  My parenting skills are in tact, my AP straight A student is not dumb, and being defensive about being called names and needing to say something is honestly how I feel.  

 

I grew up in a pretty troubled neighborhood with a major crack problem. I never knew anyone who did pot until I moved to Northwest Arkansas at 16. If I discarded every kid/family with problems I'd have been a lonely kid and missed out on some pretty amazing friends and (now) adults who pushed through their circumstances. I have been told several times that my friendship was important to people that (in some cases) I didn't even consider that close. I don't think kids are disposable like that. Your son can be a great friend and still not engage in those behaviors. I wouldn't allow him over their house as drug deals go wrong all the time but friendship doesn't just mean socializing in that home.

[TechWife]

23 hours ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

Amen. And all it takes is a one more crazy cop friend of this man to make the OP’s life miserable. I can’t believe people think anything positive or productive can come out of this, for any and all involved.

 

It's really sad that we are talking about cops making life miserable for people who report crimes. Police cover-ups are now normalized & therefore, expected.

[ktgrok]

18 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

I wouldn't hesitate to have a bad cop removed from the force not just for my kid but for all people. We're seeing some real profiles in courage these days. We need more of that, not less.

You know, I admire that, but I still doubt I'd do it in these circumstances. Not over him turning a blind eye to his son's drug use. But I respect that perspective.

3 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

And along those lines, I might even sit down with both kids and lay it out plainly. 
 

“Look, _______, I know your older brother is dealing and has been getting pushy with DS on this, and I bet it’s not great for you either.  I know you two are friends and we care about you and want the friendship to remain strong.  I’m not comfortable with DS going over to your place as long as your dad and brother are acting like this, but my house is a safe space for you and I’m fine with you hanging out here and at ________ places, provided you aren’t using or offering to my son.  Can you agree to that?”

Something along those lines, that makes it clear you aren’t lumping in friend with the family, just trying to establish some boundaries where the friendship can still be strong but scrutiny and accountability are happening (just in case).  Does that make any sense?

I think this is the best approach honestly. My father had a few talks like this with kids over the years between my sister and I, and so did my mom. It worked. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, TechWife said:

It's really sad that we are talking about cops making life miserable for people who report crimes. Police cover-ups are now normalized & therefore, expected.

To be fair, not cops in general. This one cop, who has already proven to have some issues with ethics, and is not above skirting the law. Now, without knowing the situation maybe he's a great guy who just is trying to protect his son. But if not, and if the OP thinks he's an unethical SOB, then yeah, I'd expect that an unethical SOB might be the kind of guy to strike back, and as a cop he has way more power. 

I don't think that the other cops would be unethical- but that they would be on the side of the cop vs the kid, if they don't know the situation. Wasn't implying all the cops were going to go after the kid, just that the jerk cop could easily tell friends on a neighboring force to "watch out for that kid, found him selling my kid drugs, he's bad news. If you can get a chance to stop/search his car you should." And then plant evidence. 

I do NOT think in a normal situation that cops make someone's life miserable for reporting crime. I have reported crime myself several times. I like cops, as a general rule. I've been known to say "thank you" when getting a ticket, lol. I had the opportunity to get to know several while working in veterinary medicine, and was so glad I knew them on a first name basis when my ex husband's ex girlfriend started harassing me, making threats, etc. I was able to call up the one I know, and she went and spoke to the woman, handling it really well. 

I only meant that if you already know this guy has issues, making him mad, knowing he has the advantage in the power differential, may have serious consequences. 

[DawnM]

9 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

And along those lines, I might even sit down with both kids and lay it out plainly. 
 

“Look, _______, I know your older brother is dealing and has been getting pushy with DS on this, and I bet it’s not great for you either.  I know you two are friends and we care about you and want the friendship to remain strong.  I’m not comfortable with DS going over to your place as long as your dad and brother are acting like this, but my house is a safe space for you and I’m fine with you hanging out here and at ________ places, provided you aren’t using or offering to my son.  Can you agree to that?”

Something along those lines, that makes it clear you aren’t lumping in friend with the family, just trying to establish some boundaries where the friendship can still be strong but scrutiny and accountability are happening (just in case).  Does that make any sense?

 

We have had talks with him ad nauseum.   I promise.  

I really just needed advice on dealing with dad.

[TechWife]

22 hours ago, katilac said:

Dang, that's harsh. This has been her son's best friend for years. While I'd want to protect my kids, and I'd likely be on high alert, I think I'd have trouble banning a long-term friend from my home because of a shitty home situation. 

 

I agree that this is a bad home situation. In an ideal world, we would be able to reach out to the affected children and care for them. This is not the ideal world, though. This is dangerous and I can say that I don't willingly or knowingly let dangerous people into my house when there are people there that I am responsible for. It doesn't matter if pot is legal/illegal to consume or sell and in what states.  What matters is the environment Dawn wants in her home. She doesn't want her son around people who can negatively impact him and others in their family.  That's enough - that's all she needs.

[Sneezyone]

55 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

You know, I admire that, but I still doubt I'd do it in these circumstances. Not over him turning a blind eye to his son's drug use. But I respect that perspective.

I think this is the best approach honestly. My father had a few talks like this with kids over the years between my sister and I, and so did my mom. It worked. 

 

I am cool with other perspectives. Everyone isn't willing or able to stick their neck out but, from my perspective, This isn't about him simply overlooking his adult son's legal drug use. If that was all...ok. I'd mind my business. This man is 'overlooking' illegal sales, attempts to corrupt other minors, and illegal drug use by minors in his own home (and on a rental property for which he's being paid to provide security, presumably because of his LEO bonafides). Those aren't minor or debatable lapses in judgement. They are crimes.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Sneezyone

[TechWife]

3 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

So you did report? 

I just am not sure what you think will change for the better with reporting.

Sometimes it's not about expecting change, it's about doing the right thing.

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

To be fair, not cops in general. This one cop, who has already proven to have some issues with ethics, and is not above skirting the law. Now, without knowing the situation maybe he's a great guy who just is trying to protect his son. But if not, and if the OP thinks he's an unethical SOB, then yeah, I'd expect that an unethical SOB might be the kind of guy to strike back, and as a cop he has way more power. 

I don't think that the other cops would be unethical- but that they would be on the side of the cop vs the kid, if they don't know the situation. Wasn't implying all the cops were going to go after the kid, just that the jerk cop could easily tell friends on a neighboring force to "watch out for that kid, found him selling my kid drugs, he's bad news. If you can get a chance to stop/search his car you should." And then plant evidence. 

I do NOT think in a normal situation that cops make someone's life miserable for reporting crime. I have reported crime myself several times. I like cops, as a general rule. I've been known to say "thank you" when getting a ticket, lol. I had the opportunity to get to know several while working in veterinary medicine, and was so glad I knew them on a first name basis when my ex husband's ex girlfriend started harassing me, making threats, etc. I was able to call up the one I know, and she went and spoke to the woman, handling it really well. 

I only meant that if you already know this guy has issues, making him mad, knowing he has the advantage in the power differential, may have serious consequences. 

 

The other cops already know/knew the older child is dealing and, according to the OP, confronted the father. This is also a matter of them looking the other way.

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Sometimes it's not about expecting change, it's about doing the right thing.

True. But if there is no benefit that actually happens, and my reporting it hurts people who have no say in the matter (my son), that's an ethical dilemma too. 

I personally wouldn't be willing to have a corrupt cop target my son so that I could feel good about reporting him. If I honestly thought it would improve the situation, that's a different situation. But if I don't think any actual good happens, and some innocent people get hurt, it isn't quite as clear cut. 

[Sneezyone]

10 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

We have had talks with him ad nauseum.   I promise.  

I really just needed advice on dealing with dad.

 

It really seems he's past dealing with. I would call SS at a bare minimum and the department (most likely) and provide dates, times, details, emails, etc. I cannot believe so many are cool with a rogue cop 'policing' others. It's enraging. I would take that child in myself before I let this man continue to wield the power of the state.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Sneezyone

[DawnM]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

 

It really seems he's past dealing with. I would call SS at a bare minimum and the department (most likely) and provide dates, times, details, emails, etc. I cannot believe so many are cool with a rogue cop 'policing' others. It's enraging.

 

DSS has been called.  Now I am trying to figure out how to report him.  Apparently he is in charge of complaints so any complaint filed with the precinct goes straight to his desk first.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, DawnM said:

DSS has been called.  Now I am trying to figure out how to report him.  Apparently he is in charge of complaints so any complaint filed with the precinct goes straight to his desk first.

 

Ask for internal affairs or a civilian review board contact.

[Sneezyone]

Ya know, it occurs to me that this is EXACTLY the kind of questionable, shady cop that goes on to commit other, bigger crimes. These  so-called small things are overlooked, ignored, excused by people who know and should do better and they go on to victimize the wider community. I understand why this happens intellectually but it's still horrifying.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

Being worried about the consequences of reporting him is not the same as being "cool witha  rogue cop 'policing' others."  

 

Yes, yes it is. There is no functional difference in outcomes.

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, Arctic Mama said:

Yeah, dad sucks.  If you’ve already had that talk with the kids that’s definitely the most important component. I’d probably file an anonymous report with the department and drop a letter in the mailbox of the landlord and leave it at that, from there.  You’re a good mom.

 

The kid is polite to me, but since he is currently using (he has joined a band.......sigh) we are going to be far more "babysitting-ish" with him.  

[Lady Florida.]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

 

Along these lines - does anyone have their kid read the book "Go Ask Alice"?  It was very popular when I was middle-school age.  I recently saw a movie that was made from it (thanks to YouTube).  I wondered if this was something our kids should read or not.  Or is there a newer book that youths read now?

Although I'm not familiar with current books on the subject, Go Ask Alice is definitely not the book I'd choose. It's fictional but presented as a true diary and we weren't told it was fictional back when it came out. For another, it's on the level of Reefer Madness in terms of scare tactics. I was a teen when it came out and my friends and I thought it was laughable. We weren't into drugs but it was the 70s and we knew plenty of people who were. The book is just way off base about a teen girl's life at that time. 

Here's a long review on it -

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/go-ask-alice/

Oh, this one actually gives recommendations for better books instead of that one. I'm not familiar with any of them, I'm just passing it along in case it's helpful.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/29829-go-ask-alice-is-still-awash-in-controversy-43-years-after-publication

 

[SKL]

5 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

It really seems he's past dealing with. I would call SS at a bare minimum and the department (most likely) and provide dates, times, details, emails, etc. I cannot believe so many are cool with a rogue cop 'policing' others. It's enraging. I would take that child in myself before I let this man continue to wield the power of the state.

I am not cool with what the cop is doing.  But the fact is that reporting this is going to hurt the kids the most - including the one who is not pushing.  The way laws tend to work, the relatively minor infraction of using pot will be punished in illogical ways, and will likely set off a downward spiral.  Aside from considerable disruption to his daily life, he will likely be excluded from every positive social opportunity that could have helped him make better choices.

Considering that pot is legal in some parts of the US (not that I agree with that), it feels kind of hypocritical to demonize its use elsewhere. 

If it were possible to punish the dad without hurting the minor friend, then I might respond differently.  I don't like the pot aspect, and I really hate the bad cop aspect.  But the big picture has to be considered.

[unsinkable]

8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Ya know, it occurs to me that this is EXACTLY the kind of questionable, shady cop that goes on to commit other, bigger crimes. These  so-called small things are overlooked, ignored, excused by people who know and should do better and they go on to victimize the wider community. I understand why this happens intellectually but it's still horrifying.

yeah, I said something similar hours ago.

Dad could be involved in the dealing already. Plus it could be more than pot. Plus dad could be involved with the upper level dealers...

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, SKL said:

I am not cool with what the cop is doing.  But the fact is that reporting this is going to hurt the kids the most - including the one who is not pushing.  The way laws tend to work, the relatively minor infraction of using pot will be punished in illogical ways, and will likely set off a downward spiral.  Aside from considerable disruption to his daily life, he will likely be excluded from every positive social opportunity that could have helped him make better choices.

Considering that pot is legal in some parts of the US (not that I agree with that), it feels kind of hypocritical to demonize its use elsewhere. 

If it were possible to punish the dad without hurting the minor friend, then I might respond differently.  I don't like the pot aspect, and I really hate the bad cop aspect.  But the big picture has to be considered.

 

This isn't an issue of minor, individual pot usage by adults. Geeze, is the LEO using too!? Even legal states still prohibit use by LEOs. This is a matter of illegal sales (even legal use states have dispensaries), sales/distribution to minors (also illegal), and a sworn LEO ignoring crimes being committed in his own home. The child may well be rehomed with extended family. My greater concern is the community being subjected to this LEO's questionable judgment and policing standards. In every other community/neighborhood that I know, people know dealing will get you locked up. This family is no different.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

yeah, I said something similar hours ago.

Dad could be involved in the dealing already. Plus it could be more than pot. Plus dad could be involved with the upper level dealers...

 

ITA. I had a lot of 'crack' use in the community where I grew up and there was never a dealing case that the parents didn't know about/approve of. They almost always benefited from the income the illegal sales generated. Not to mention the additional risk of deals gone bad that this kind of criminal activity brings to an apartment complex. The owner probably thinks he/she is doing a good thing employing an LEO.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Sneezyone

[SKL]

6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

This isn't an issue of minor, individual pot usage. This is a matter of illegal sales (even legal use states have dispensaries), sales/distribution to minors (also illegal), and a sworn LEO ignoring crimes being committed in his own home. The child may well be rehomed with extended family. My greater concern is the community being subjected to this LEO's questionable judgment and policing standards.

Yeah, I would be wondering how to get the dad caught ... while knowing there are probably other cops protecting him already.  In my county, periodically there is a big bust and 50 cops are fired for being involved with drug dealing.  It's not like just pointing out a bad cop is going to lead to a big clean-up.  You have to figure out how to find a good cop who will not be afraid to follow up.  If we're talking about pot, good luck with that.  Maybe if it was a lot of hard drugs ....

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

Yeah, I would be wondering how to get the dad caught ... while knowing there are probably other cops protecting him already.  In my county, periodically there is a big bust and 50 cops are fired for being involved with drug dealing.  It's not like just pointing out a bad cop is going to lead to a big clean-up.  You have to figure out how to find a good cop who will not be afraid to follow up.  If we're talking about pot, good luck with that.  Maybe if it was a lot of hard drugs ....

 

We don't know exactly what it is. That's for someone else to investigate. If the corruption was that widespread, my call would go to the FBI. In a smaller force where, as the OP said, the officers already tried to confront dad, I have to believe they know and would like to do better.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Sneezyone