German Shepherds - update

[ktgrok]

I'm not getting one right now...my DH would kill me. But as much as my ridiculously overgrown hound dog is better than he used to be, I'm starting to doubt he'll ever be my kind of dog. A great family pet, someday, but not the dog my soul wants and maybe even needs. I've been blessed to have dogs in the past that seemed to understand everything I said, or at least cared what I said, lol. This dog...not so much. He's not dumb, he's just a hound, with the typical hound personality. They were bred to be independent, not to take orders from humans, and it shows. A lot. Not that he isn't trained, he'd come along nicely. It's just...different. (and in my defense we didn't know he was a hound when we got him, he's a blue tick coonhound mix but looks a LOT like a German Shorthair Pointer, which is what we thought he was. I never planned to own a hound.) Again, he is sweet, loves everyone, loves other dogs, is no longer destroying my house, etc. But....he's not the dog I wanted. I wouldn't get rid of him - we do love him! But at some point I think I am going to want another one. Plus, adding a dog that would play with him would ease my life in that Tracker (the hound) needs a good amount of exercise, and he doesn't and won't fetch, tug, etc so that exercise consists of me driving him to the dog park to play with other dogs or paying for him to go to doggie daycare. I do walk him 1-2 miles a day, but that's not enough for him. 

Anyway......I'm thinking German Shepherd. I've never had one. I'm looking for a dog that is biddable, as they say in the dog world. One that enjoys working with a human and being trained. One that will be able and willing to DO things with me, maybe scent work or tracking or obedience or hiking with me or who knows what. (I did try tracking with the hound....he laid down on the track and took a rest halfway through a very short track, despite knowing there was food at the end of it. Sigh. And when we tried Barn Hunt he was more interested in finding people and saying hi than he was in finding the rat that was hidden)

So I want a versatile dog that enjoys doing some kind of work, and is a good family pet. I also want a dog that  looks somewhat intimidating, that I'll feel safe walking with in the evening or answering the door with when my husband is gone at night. In the past my weimaraners did that, or my pit/shepherd mix. The pit mix was actually a big baby but looked intimidating as heck. A door to door alarm salesman saw her bark at him through the front window and left, saying we were good, we didn't need an alarm ?

My main hesitation is the shedding. Sigh...we have a senior border collie right now that sheds like crazy. And I've been in homes with German Shepherds and know how much they shed. I do have a Roomba, so there is that, lol. I'd think Doberman instead of Shepherd because of the hair issue, but everything I see says that a good shepherd is a better family dog, more stable and more versatile. And that's more important than shedding. Rottweilers and nice, but not going to be up for agility or tracking or much of anything once they get big, in my experience. Much lazier. 

Basically, I like German dogs, a lot. I'm a former dog trainer (was a CPDT back in the day, went to Clicker Expo, etc) and LIKE doing training with a dog. I want a smart, versatile dog that I can really do some work with as far as training, maybe a dog sport, etc. One with genetics that work with me not against me, lol. I do know I'd need to be picky - there are a ton of shy Shepherds out there and I'm not looking for that. I'd either go through a breed rescue or with a well researched breeder (and that would mean saving up.....a quick glance says puppies are about 2K or more in this area if you want parents with OFA hips, etc). 

Thoughts? I'll admit I was anti-shepherd for a long time, only because when I was a young dog owner with my first Weimaraner all the shepherd people at the park were this tight clique who looked down their noses at anyone who didn't have a shepherd, because shepherds were obviously the best dogs. Since then I've met some very nice shepherd owners, lol. And come to acknowledge that maybe, for what I'm looking for, a GSD IS the best breed, at least for my criteria. (except the shedding...sigh. and the fur....my wash and wear hound takes 2 minutes to bathe, same with the weimaraners and the pit mix. The border collie takes just shy of forever. I'm thinking a GSD is somewhere in between. I used to bathe them back as a kennel tech a lifetime ago but don't really remember). 

Am I on the right track? If you've owned a GSD, do you think it sounds like a good fit? Am I going to fall in love with the breed? Or is there a different, German, large, eager to work, protective, soul mate dog out there I should be looking at? 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Ktgrok

[zimom]

I just picked up my daughter's next service dog prospect this weekend.  It was going to be a German Shepherd due to all the reasons you listed.  Hair, I can deal with that since I purchased my Rosie (generic roomba).  I had to switch gears for a personal reason, but a German Shepherd WILL be my next dog.  However, I can tell you that with all my research, honestly for the last five years, I am not thrilled with any of the GSD breeders in our state.  I had every intention of going with one likely in Georgia at the closest.  Of course, that is your choice.  

Ultimately I went with a lab.  I can tell you with our current adult lab, there is plenty of 'black dog' syndrome that causes plenty of people to give our girl a very wide berth just because she is black.  I always tell the story of dog sitting our neighbor's Rhodesian Ridgeback, the door to door 'converters' didn't blink when he went to the door barking his head off.   When they came back weeks later and my sweet, sweet black lab joined me at the door just wanting to say hello they couldn't leave fast enough.  

Just my opinion but you will get almost the same with a lab, something to think about.  Shorter hair, maybe not quite the intimidation factor but close if go with a black lab.  And although I went with a breeder from the northeast since I was looking for a service dog prospect, I did find many breeders that I felt were good quality here in our state.  For a GSD I think you need to be VERY careful with the breeder as the last thing you want to end up with is a skittish dog, especially since you have young children.  The chance of ending up with a dangerous lab is low.  

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by ZiMom

[wintermom]

?? You are looking for a soul mate from a dog?  I don't think it's part of the job description.  Think of your dog as a child. You don't expect the child to be a soul mate, and neither is a particular breed of dog going to necessarily be one. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by wintermom

[Pen]

I am thinking you have a difficult hound and that they aren’t all that way. 

 

An excellent GSD can do just about anything a dog can do. They take a lot of time and energy. However, I’m not sure “biddable “ is a word that comes to mind thinking about them.

If they were allowed where we are it might be the dog we would have right now. I prefer Rottweilers, partly because I prefer the calmer personality of a Rottweiler also prefer the easier coat, but currently they aren’t allowed either and GSD would have been a better fit for ds who likes to run and hike—and there is a good local breeder for GSDs. 

I had a terrible GSD at one point in childhood. She was not terrible for me personally since she particularly loved me, but she was unstable and bit several people. She also was remarkably unintelligent as GSDs go. She had a full supply of The sort of problems that have given GSDs a bad name and have gotten them barred by some HOA  and insurance companies.  

2 other childhood known GSDs were excellent dogs.  A good GSD is wonderful with an owner who can keep it busy mentally and physically    A bad GSD  is potentially a dangerous disaster  

I have not had a GSD in my adult life, but most of the dogs in our dogs group training classes have been GSDs and have been good examples of the breed.  

The GSD shedding problem is the worst by far of any breed I have lived with.   If petted with a wet or damp hand, fur sticks to my hand even if the dog was recently brushed out. When the GSD slept in bed with me my pajamas would be covered with fur.  This was before there were zoomgrooms and furminators so maybe it would be better nowadays? Also the GSDs of my childhood were in climates that may have been too warm for their coats. 

[Pen]

One of our recent dogs was probably a Doberman Labrador mix (adult rescue so not certain)  She would have met all your requirements. 

[Selkie]

German Shepherds are my dh's favorite dog breed. He grew up with them and loves them, but we won't get one because of the potential health problems. When my MIL died, we "inherited" her sweet and wonderful shepherd, and then ended up having to put him to sleep at a fairly young age because of degenerative myelopathy.?It was terribly sad. That, coupled with the stories our vet has told us about other shepherd health issues, has pretty much convinced us against getting another.

We have had shepherd mixes over the years that were absolutely wonderful family dogs with none of the shepherd health problems.

And oh yes, German Shepherds shed like crazy, and all year round. 

[Carrie12345]

So.
Much.
Hair!  And, in my limited experience, dander.

Mine was a GSD-mix (we think Rottie), but very GSD-forward, minus the sloped back and low hips that (imo) make GSDs look crippled and sad.  He wasn't quite as fluffy as full GSDs, and thank goodness for that! I had a hard enough time keeping up with his every day shedding, and seasonal blow outs were a nightmare!  But I did love him. ? He was super simple to crate train (though he would escape it if the smoke alarm went off) and absolutely terrific with the kids. They were 7, 3, and 2 when we brought him (and our Rottie-mutt) home, and two more babies were born after that.  He loved them all more than he loved me, lol.  He was not the best on a leash, but that's because we didn't train him enough on a leash.  (See kids' ages above!) He'd do any trick the kids asked him to do, so I'm sure he would have been terrific with proper training.

I am acquainted with former GSD breeders and pitied every one of their dogs.  I know they aren't all bad, but please do meticulous research.  Many of them put on a great show.

I am reluctantly considering the idea of another large breed in the future, but it will not be a GSD.

[ktgrok]

9 minutes ago, ZiMom said:

IUltimately I went with a lab.  I can tell you with our current adult lab, there is plenty of 'black dog' syndrome that causes plenty of people to give our girl a very wide berth just because she is black.  I always tell the story of dog sitting our neighbor's Rhodesian Ridgeback, the door to door 'converters' didn't blink when he went to the door barking his head off.   When they came back weeks later and my sweet, sweet black lab joined me at the door just wanting to say hello they couldn't leave fast enough.  

Just my opinion but you will get almost the same with a lab, something to think about.  Shorter hair, maybe not quite the intimidation factor but close if go with a black lab.  And although I went with a breeder from the northeast since I was looking for a service dog prospect, I did find many breeders that I felt were good quality here in our state.  For a GSD I think you need to be VERY careful with the breeder as the last thing you want to end up with is a skittish dog, especially since you have young children.  The chance of ending up with a dangerous lab is low.  

 

Lab was another thought, before I thought of shepherd. Still has the shedding issue, but yes, hard to find a mean lab. I actually wanted a lab before we got our imposter german short hair who ended up being a hound, lol. But DH said they were too "ordinary". Well, this dog is striking, absolutely gorgeous, but a PIA, lol. He wishes we'd gotten a lab. 

I hadn't considered the black dog factor, that's interesting!

2 minutes ago, wintermom said:

?? You are looking for a soul mate from a dog?  I don't think it's part of the job description.  Think of your dog as a child. You don't expect the child to be a soul mate, and neither is a particular breed of dog going to necessarily be one. 

Soul mate is an exaggeration. But a partnership, yes. I've been blessed to have that in the past with dogs, to varying degrees. I'd like it again. Partnership is really probably the most accurate word. 

[ExcitedMama]

We love GSD. Just make sure you fully investigate the breeder. GSD have health issues. Our first 2 did not live that long (3 and 6 years). To ensure we didn’t have to deal with that again we spent a lot on a dog with a great pedigree for health from a great breeder. It’s father is German. American GSD have been bred for their Black and Tan color which has led to the health issues. It is a wonderful breed. They are active dogs and want to do jobs. They train well and are very high energy. We love them but be prepared to do the work on finding the right one and training. 

[ktgrok]

Yes, I'm in agreement that the American show lines are crippled looking. I am not at all looking for a dog with that sloped back, and I find show bred dogs in general to often have behavior issues - there is some speculation that dogs who naturally adopt a "stacked" posture are more likely to be aggressive as that posture is a very forward leaning, nearly aggressive posture. It's an interesting theory, anyway. One of my weimaraners was from sporting lines and one from show lines so I've seen what a difference it can make to the personality of the dog. And of course, in labs you have those variations as well, with the sweet but often obese show style labs vs the lean but MUCH higher energy hunting lines, with there being further splits in there depending on English vs American. English sporting dogs being less active than American Sporting lines, etc. (my understanding so far, and I'm only at the beginning of reasearching, is that with German Shepherds there are 4 basic types, American Show lines, American Pet lines, German Sport/IPO/Schutzund lines, and German Working lines). 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I love my rottie shepherd mix. Her fur is the short shepherd variety. She has all the personality traits you want. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Jean in Newcastle

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

ab was another thought, before I thought of shepherd. Still has the shedding issue, b

 

Labradors shed some. 

GSD shedding is in a whole other class.  GSD’s SHED buckets.  

 

On a scale of 0 shedless to 10 maximum shedding I can imagine .  I’d Put Labrador at 4 and GSD at 9.

[Pawz4me]

I grew up with GSDs--my maternal grandparents always had one or more. I love all dogs, but they're a breed I'd never own by choice. The hair texture is an issue for me. Something about the way they feel gives me the willies.

(And I say "by choice" because I know myself well enough to know if one showed up in my yard abandoned and needing a home it would have come to the right place. And I'd probably fall in love with it, just like I have every other dog that's accidentally found its way into my life.) 

If I liked German dogs, wanted a big dog and didn't want shedding I'd be looking at Giant Schnauzers. Even standards are decent sized dogs, and are fairly intimidating. 

[Selkie]

When it comes to soulmate dogs, I’ve found herding breeds to be the best - specifically Aussies, border collies, and heelers. The ones I’ve owned or known seem to be genetically programmed to choose one person who they are completely devoted to and will follow to the ends of the earth.?

[Liz CA]

Mastiffs or Boxers. They hang on your every word and are people pleasers.  ?

I have had both and it would be hard to switch to another breed because they are so much fun. If you don't like the mastiff drool, go with boxer, mine does not drool at all and if some do it's a lot less than mastiffs. As far as training goes, I found it easy once you established who is top dog. From that point on, it's easy sailing.

ETA: The intimidation factor is built in in both breeds because of their looks but I found both breeds very protective and not jumping to conclusions when unsure. Mastiffs are great observers and may place themselves between you and a stranger while they are trying to figure out if he is friend or foe.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Liz CA

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I love my rottie shepherd mix. Her fur is the short shepherd variety. She has all the personality traits you want. 

https://imgur.com/a/0cp6pWv

I LOVE your dog! I may very well end up with a mix.....that may be the way to go. 

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Labradors shed some. 

GSD shedding is in a whole other class.  GSD’s SHED buckets.  

 

On a scale of 0 shedless to 10 maximum shedding I can imagine .  I’d Put Labrador at 4 and GSD at 9.

wow. I had hoped my memories of babysitting for a couple with two GSD's were overblown but maybe not. I recall thinking their house was like a hay barn, but with dog fur instead of hay. 

[ktgrok]

40 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

Mastiffs or Boxers. They hang on your every word and are people pleasers.  ?

I have had both and it would be hard to switch to another breed because they are so much fun. If you don't like the mastiff drool, go with boxer, mine does not drool at all and if some do it's a lot less than mastiffs. As far as training goes, I found it easy once you established who is top dog. From that point on, it's easy sailing.

ETA: The intimidation factor is built in in both breeds because of their looks but I found both breeds very protective and not jumping to conclusions when unsure. Mastiffs are great observers and may place themselves between you and a stranger while they are trying to figure out if he is friend or foe.

I grew up with an English Mastiff, and adore BullMastiffs. Adore them. But I worry about energy level with them, for some of what I'd like to do. And I'm in Florida, where boxers and other bracycephalic breeds can really have issues with heat stroke. Otherwise, I agree. 

Honestly, maybe I need to revisit the idea of a pit bull. Easy to train, affectionate, intimidating, easy care coat. I had said I wouldn't have another (my last dog was a pit mix, mostly pit) only due to getting annoyed by people's prejudices about the breed, and worries over home owners insurance, etc if we move, which we would like to in a year or so. Dog aggression can be an issue though. 

[Liz CA]

4 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I grew up with an English Mastiff, and adore BullMastiffs. Adore them. But I worry about energy level with them, for some of what I'd like to do. And I'm in Florida, where boxers and other bracycephalic breeds can really have issues with heat stroke. Otherwise, I agree. 

Honestly, maybe I need to revisit the idea of a pit bull. Easy to train, affectionate, intimidating, easy care coat. I had said I wouldn't have another (my last dog was a pit mix, mostly pit) only due to getting annoyed by people's prejudices about the breed, and worries over home owners insurance, etc if we move, which we would like to in a year or so. Dog aggression can be an issue though. 

 

?  Energy level  may be an issue. A 45 minute walk tuckered out the mastiff and the boxer is good for about 30 minute in cooler weather but not during the summer. 

[Liz CA]

Jean, you have a beautiful specimen of a rottie mix.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Liz CA said:

 

?  Energy level  may be an issue. A 45 minute walk tuckered out the mastiff and the boxer is good for about 30 minute in cooler weather but not during the summer. 

I'm in central Florida, it's always summer here, lol.

 

[ktgrok]

What I'm hearing is I need two dogs, lol. One for training/bonding - a herding or sporting breed like a lab or an aussie. Even a weimaraner again. And then I need a different dog for protection, like a Rottie or BullMastiff. Except if I get DH to agree to any more animals it will be max one dog, not two. 

Which brings me back to the GSD, as it seems to be most known as a versatile breed that does all these things. I just need a naked one ?

[Vintage81]

We have a Doberman. He’s 3 years old. LOTS of energy, loves to be outside, loves to play ball, loves to be with his people. He’s been a great family dog (my DDs are 8 and 10). He’s good with other people too. And, he’s definitely got the intimidation factor. He does it all...from snuggle bear on the couch to protector of the yard!

He’s got high prey drive, so training is definitely needed, but it sounds like you’re good to go in that area. ? We took ours to a trainer and he did very well.

I would totally recommend a Doberman...great dog! They do have some known genetic issues, so that’s something to keep in mind when looking at breeders. 

Good luck in your search!

[ktgrok]

21 minutes ago, Vintage81 said:

We have a Doberman. He’s 3 years old. LOTS of energy, loves to be outside, loves to play ball, loves to be with his people. He’s been a great family dog (my DDs are 8 and 10). He’s good with other people too. And, he’s definitely got the intimidation factor. He does it all...from snuggle bear on the couch to protector of the yard!

He’s got high prey drive, so training is definitely needed, but it sounds like you’re good to go in that area. ? We took ours to a trainer and he did very well.

I would totally recommend a Doberman...great dog! They do have some known genetic issues, so that’s something to keep in mind when looking at breeders. 

Good luck in your search!

I think I will keep looking into them more. My few dealings with them as a trainer left me with the impression they were super smart, high drive, but more independent/stubborn than say, a shepherd or a lab. Which describes my weimaraners too, actually. More of a "convince my why" than a "what do you want me to do" attitude. Which is not disqualifying, I just was thinking it might be nice to have a dog that wasn't a challenge just once, lol. My pit/shepherd/? mix had aggression issues I successfully rehabbed, but it was a process. She was born at a shelter and they put the mother down for aggression because they couldn't handle her...so Tara had genetic issues as well as her earliest days influenced by her mother growling at people. Definitely was a challenge. We overcame it, but I was always cautious with her and strangers, put her away when kids were over, etc, just in case. My weims were great, but one had separation anxiety, and the breed is very very prone to it. They also have a huge tendency to kill small animals, as they are not just retrievers or pointers but also hunters. 

[Bluegoat]

My dad has one, it's a huge dog, the largest of the breed I've ever seen.

He is smart, but he was quite difficult as a young dog in part because he is smart.  He is still kind of high strung - very much a one family or even one person dog.  He's not great about strangers or especially strange kids, or even strange dogs.  His shedding is beyond belief.

Now, my grandparents used to keep them and they were all more calm, but still more introverted in some ways.

My main worry would really be the health issues.  Many of the ones I've known have had skin issues, but it's really the weird hind ends.  My dad's dog was supposedly not bred to have the weak hindquarters like a show dog, but he still does to some extent.  As he ages it looks more and more like it's becoming a problem.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Bluegoat

[Bluegoat]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Lab was another thought, before I thought of shepherd. Still has the shedding issue, but yes, hard to find a mean lab. I actually wanted a lab before we got our imposter german short hair who ended up being a hound, lol. But DH said they were too "ordinary". Well, this dog is striking, absolutely gorgeous, but a PIA, lol. He wishes we'd gotten a lab. 

I hadn't considered the black dog factor, that's interesting!

Soul mate is an exaggeration. But a partnership, yes. I've been blessed to have that in the past with dogs, to varying degrees. I'd like it again. Partnership is really probably the most accurate word. 

 

if a mean lab appeals, you might look at a Chesapeake Bay Retriever.  They are rather like labs and GSDs in personality - sensitive to their owners but smart, and more suspicious than labs of other people.  They were used to guard the boats as well as retrieve.  Ours is good with non-family children though.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Bluegoat said:

 

if a mean lab appeals, you might look at a Chesapeake Bay Retriever.  They are rather like labs and GSDs in personality - sensitive to their owners but smart, and more suspicious than labs of other people.  They were used to guard the boats as well as retrieve.  Ours is good with non-family children though.

I do like that breed, but am cautious of them as a family pet. I 've known a few that were pretty obnoxious with people...but it may or may not have been a matter of owners not qualified to own them. People who thought they were getting a lab. I'd have to research that more. Like I said, not impressed with the ones I knew....but they were all owned by young, single, macho guys so....often I'm not impressed with the behavior of dogs with owners like that. 

[Bluegoat]

1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

I do like that breed, but am cautious of them as a family pet. I 've known a few that were pretty obnoxious with people...but it may or may not have been a matter of owners not qualified to own them. People who thought they were getting a lab. I'd have to research that more. Like I said, not impressed with the ones I knew....but they were all owned by young, single, macho guys so....often I'm not impressed with the behavior of dogs with owners like that. 

 

I would say they remind me a lot of the German Shepherd personality - both can be bad with people if you treat them wrong or get a bad egg.

[ktgrok]

Just now, Bluegoat said:

 

I would say they remind me a lot of the German Shepherd personality - both can be bad with people if you treat them wrong or get a bad egg.

Does this fit with your view? http://cbrrescue.org/cbrrrescue/WARNING.HTM

 

[Bluegoat]

2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Does this fit with your view? http://cbrrescue.org/cbrrrescue/WARNING.HTM

 

 

I would say this describes what I've seen really well.  Probably the thing I've found most negative is how much she barks at people who come to the door - and not just a warning, she sounds like she is really dangerous.  We used to crate her, now she is three and she will sit where she is told, but she howls.  (She's never actually been violent to anyone though she will run up and bark if no one tells her not to.) She doesn't do it with strange kids though, she seems to see them as people who might play with her.  I don't know if a male dog would be different.

She's quick to learn though, my kids and even their friends have managed to teach her tricks and games, and she's now very reliable for all the stuff my dh has taught her.

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I would say this describes what I've seen really well.  Probably the thing I've found most negative is how much she barks at people who come to the door - and not just a warning, she sounds like she is really dangerous.  We used to crate her, now she is three and she will sit where she is told, but she howls.  (She's never actually been violent to anyone though she will run up and bark if no one tells her not to.) She doesn't do it with strange kids though, she seems to see them as people who might play with her.  I don't know if a male dog would be different.

She's quick to learn though, my kids and even their friends have managed to teach her tricks and games, and she's now very reliable for all the stuff my dh has taught her.

yup, that fits my initial impression, that they are protective and can tend into aggression if not handled well. Also true of my weim. (she refused to let anyone, including my mother when I lived with her for a while) into my room if I was sleeping or undressed. Only then, oddly. As if she knew I was vulnerable then. Didn't attack, just stood in the doorway and blocked it and demanded you stay back. 

I don't want a dog THAT protective, but I'm also a much better trainer and dog owner now, and feel better equipped to handle that type of protective instinct than I was then. It's something to look into, anyway. 

[shawthorne44]

3 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

...I hadn't considered the black dog factor, that's interesting!...

Black dog factor is a real thing.   I remember one time in a Lowe's at the return desk with my parent's mostly black GSD.   The dog was in a very good sit and flirting with this guy there.  By flirting I mean doing that thing of "Aren't I cute?   Don't you want to come over and pet me?  Maybe I can look even cuter" look.  The guy was far enough away that he'd have to walk over to pet the dog.  On our way out he said something really nasty to me about my 'vicious black dog.'   

[Pen]

Consider a black Labrador from working lineage and teach him to bark on command (a subtle command you can give with signal or word when out jogging or answering the door) when you need a bit of a sense of protection. 

[ktgrok]

7 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

Black dog factor is a real thing.   I remember one time in a Lowe's at the return desk with my parent's mostly black GSD.   The dog was in a very good sit and flirting with this guy there.  By flirting I mean doing that thing of "Aren't I cute?   Don't you want to come over and pet me?  Maybe I can look even cuter" look.  The guy was far enough away that he'd have to walk over to pet the dog.  On our way out he said something really nasty to me about my 'vicious black dog.'   

So funny!

Everyone thought my weimaraners were greyhounds, because they were grey. Um, no. And I've had people tell me, not ask me, but TELL me that my border collie is a husky because he has one blue eye and one black eye. People are so strange!

[Pen]

8 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

Black dog factor is a real thing.   I remember one time in a Lowe's at the return desk with my parent's mostly black GSD.   The dog was in a very good sit and flirting with this guy there.  By flirting I mean doing that thing of "Aren't I cute?   Don't you want to come over and pet me?  Maybe I can look even cuter" look.  The guy was far enough away that he'd have to walk over to pet the dog.  On our way out he said something really nasty to me about my 'vicious black dog.'   

 

To some degree. You may also have been getting reaction partly  to shepherd look. 

 

I had had a black Labrador Rottweiler mix who looked like a sweet stuffed animal despite the large black aspect and had people react the opposite thinking he was a big lovey. 

[GoodGrief]

We had a pair of Lab-Shepherd littermates and they were fantastic. But, yes, shedding. We have been around a lot of German Shepherds of late because they are super popular here, and our favorite trainer breeds them. They really are great, though it is clear that you do have to choose carefully and train properly.

Our (black) Great Dane has a wonderful soulmate type personality. He can hike for hours, though he is limited on some terrain (like larger boulder fields) due to size and agility (and we are in a cool climate, so not sure how Florida would work for him.) He is quite intimidating, and people either give him a wide berth or beg for contact with him (a man recently asked to meet him and then went on to give him three kisses right on the mouth before I could gracefully leave the encounter, lol). He has responded well to training though I wouldn't say he is naturally eager to please, and he's inclined to be protective so there have been issues with dog aggression that we have had to train out of him.

[Guest]

We had a GSD for 12 years and we loved him to pieces...BUT...I have not been thinking of getting another GSD. I have been thinking of getting a Lab. 

Pluses: Sarge was very intelligent, very trainable, a wonderful companion. He was intimidating but also gorgeous. Even his gait was breathtaking. He was rock solid with us. But there comes the biggest caveat. 

I did not trust him with strangers or, more importantly, their kids. I could not leave him to run around the yard with guests or my nieces and nephews. He was just very wary of anyone whom he believed didn’t belong here. My expectation for the future is that I will have grandkids or great nieces/nephews who will come here and I don’t want to have to worry my dog will bite my grandkids because they are “strangers.” For this reason, I am pretty much only considering a Lab. (There are a couple other possibilities, but really I think a Lab is the very best candidate. I want no more than one dog at a time, so it needs to be the one dog that is right for our family.) 

Also - the fur. Sarge shed a truly staggering amount of hair. Once in a while I would stand in the yard and use a shedding rake on him for probably close to an hour and there was literally an entire ‘nother dog’s-worth of fur all around him like a Christmas wreath. He was a handsome prince but his fur was ridiculous. 

[ByGrace3]

I grew up with GSD's, and we just got our first GSD as "adults." lol We wanted to wait until the kids were more independent and we moved to some land. We got our puppy at 10 weeks from a rescue and absolutely could not be happier. He is so intelligent, has been a joy to train, and is amazingly equal parts protective and loving. He is wonderful with other people and dogs,  but especially when my children are around he is all business and knows his job is to protect and watch over them. He is almost 9 months old. I cannot imagine a better pet for our family. He adores the kids, wants to be where we are and we want him there. Shedding is a legit issue. We have a shark robot vacuum that runs 2x a day and keeps us sane. I have still had to relax my standards on dog hair around the house, but the robot vac is a lifesaver. 

I have become a bit of a GSD snob. . . I think I always have been maybe but didn't know it. ? I'm sure everyone else has nice dogs, but mine is the best. ?

We got him from a rescue so didn't have to deal with breeders and finding a good one. I would like to add another GSD at some point, and no question we will go through this rescue again. They are beyond amazing. (OP, we are in SWFL as is this GSD Rescue if  you want to contact them.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, ByGrace3 said:

I grew up with GSD's, and we just got our first GSD as "adults." lol We wanted to wait until the kids were more independent and we moved to some land. We got our puppy at 10 weeks from a rescue and absolutely could not be happier. He is so intelligent, has been a joy to train, and is amazingly equal parts protective and loving. He is wonderful with other people and dogs,  but especially when my children are around he is all business and knows his job is to protect and watch over them. He is almost 9 months old. I cannot imagine a better pet for our family. He adores the kids, wants to be where we are and we want him there. Shedding is a legit issue. We have a shark robot vacuum that runs 2x a day and keeps us sane. I have still had to relax my standards on dog hair around the house, but the robot vac is a lifesaver. 

I have become a bit of a GSD snob. . . I think I always have been maybe but didn't know it. ? I'm sure everyone else has nice dogs, but mine is the best. ?

We got him from a rescue so didn't have to deal with breeders and finding a good one. I would like to add another GSD at some point, and no question we will go through this rescue again. They are beyond amazing. (OP, we are in SWFL as is this GSD Rescue if  you want to contact them.

Ooh yes, please let me know which rescue.

[ByGrace3]

6 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Ooh yes, please let me know which rescue.

 

pm'd you! 

[Teacher Mom]

I am in love with the herding breeds. They tend to be very high energy and more than slightly neurotic. The less they are exercised, mentally and physically, the more neurotic they get. You probably know all that. They also tend to nip small children. They tend to gravitate to one person, which can hurt the feelings of the rest of the family. They will form bonds with the family, but one person is usually their "all". 

Are you sure you don't want a nice Golden? I ask because they are usually very attentive and good with kids. it is easier to find a good Golden breeder than it is for the herding breeds. Just a suggestion because you have young children.

I grew up with Germans, wolf hybrids, and herding dogs. I know of a place in VA that has German lines if you are interested, both long-haired and normal Germans. Their dogs look good and, more importantly, show no aggressive behavior or weirdness. They are BIG dogs, though. Which means they can accidentally hurt a small child or elder person without even trying. They are on the bite list so you need to check if your home insurance will allow you to have such a dog.

Last thought, have you looked into American Eskimo?. They come in three sizes and make good family dogs. They are definitely eager to please.

[SKL]

Sounds like a shepherd would be a good fit for you, because you sound willing to keep his/her mind busy.  But yes, they are hairy.  ?

[1GirlTwinBoys]

We have a 6 year old German Shepherd and it sounds like exactly what you're looking for!  He is amazing!  Ours is an actual German bred German Shepherd and not American so he's a true working dog.  He has been great with my children who were 8 (twin boys) and 9 (DD) when we got him.  He's a very fast learner and is up for anything.  But he's also very chill if we are.  He can catch a flying frisbee like you wouldn't believe. ?

Yes, they shed but it's not as bad as a Lab IMO.  Our dog doesn't go upstairs or downstairs without our permission so he hasn't shed or got the carpet dirty in those places. The main level is hardwood so it's easy to sweep up. He's also never been on our furniture and has his own bed. I've had Dobermans and this is my first GS and feel they are very different.  Our dog is obsessed with his family and just wants to be with us at all times.  He LOVES his home!  Dobermans shed really bad too but it's that short hair that sticks to everything.  

We can give him baths outside in the summer with the hose, but in the winter he needs to go to a pet wash.  Getting that soap out of GS hair is almost impossible, and the insane hair that will come off of them is just not worth doing at home in the tub etc...

I will say that German Shepherds LOVE to please you.  They need to feel part of a family and want you to be proud of them and show them.

ETA: We don't let our GS play around other kids.  They have a herding instinct and when kids run and scream, they want to nip them and pull back into the herd.  He's a working dog and those quick movements by young children seem to set something off in him.  

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by 1GirlTwinBoys

[J-rap]

I feel the same as you about dogs.  An ideal GS can be like that.  But, in my experience, you need to be very, very careful about the breeder, what the dog's parents are like, etc.  We got our GS many years ago and it was an extremely painful experience.  He had so much of the personality you talk about (and that's I wanted, too), but all the negatives as well.  I learned a big lesson then when getting a certain breed.  It's very important to know the background and the genes.

[Pen]

For both understanding and amusement look up (google) images of GSDs shedding.  And compare with other breeds. 

I think in addition to the work it can cause you as owner also keep in mind the dog’s own discomfort as a thick furry animal in hot climate. 

 

[cintinative]

6 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

if a mean lab appeals, you might look at a Chesapeake Bay Retriever.  They are rather like labs and GSDs in personality - sensitive to their owners but smart, and more suspicious than labs of other people.  They were used to guard the boats as well as retrieve.  Ours is good with non-family children though.

 

Okay, so I know nothing about dog breeds . . . but *one* time when I was watching one of those dog shows (I have only watched it a couple of times in my life, but anyway), the announcer said, "You tell a Golden (Retriever), you order a lab, and you negotiate with a Chessie"  It gave me the impression that they were hard to train.  LOL.  

[Liz CA]

7 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

What I'm hearing is I need two dogs, lol. One for training/bonding - a herding or sporting breed like a lab or an aussie. Even a weimaraner again. And then I need a different dog for protection, like a Rottie or BullMastiff. Except if I get DH to agree to any more animals it will be max one dog, not two. 

Which brings me back to the GSD, as it seems to be most known as a versatile breed that does all these things. I just need a naked one ?

 

Or a Belgian Malinois? Supposed to have fewer hip issues.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

53 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

Or a Belgian Malinois? Supposed to have fewer hip issues.

These dogs are very high strung.  Strong prey and used by police force often.

ETA: I know I couldn't handle this breed.

Edited October 9, 2018 by 1GirlTwinBoys

[Liz CA]

12 minutes ago, 1GirlTwinBoys said:

These dogs are very high strung.  Strong prey and used by police force often.

ETA: I know I couldn't handle this breed.

 

Yes, this is true. A friend of mine has two and she loves them. Katie is experienced in dog training (unless I am confusing posters here) so I thought it may be a consideration. Don't know how the Belgians would be with kids. Friend has no little kiddos.

[shawthorne44]

4 hours ago, Teacher Mom said:

I am in love with the herding breeds. They tend to be very high energy and more than slightly neurotic. The less they are exercised, mentally and physically, the more neurotic they get. You probably know all that. They also tend to nip small children. They tend to gravitate to one person, which can hurt the feelings of the rest of the family. They will form bonds with the family, but one person is usually their "all". ....

 

I read that thinking, "she lists reasons to NOT get that kind of dog."   

MIne is a low-energy Akita.  I love the low-energy aspect.   A dog doesn't get into trouble while doing a rug imitation.  I am the center of her universe.  I am pretty sure she knew she was going to die at the shelter and I am the one that brought her home.  If we'd known that it would have been daughter that did it.   Akitas have a loud means-business bark that is only used once every blue-moon.   Infrequently enough that I will investigate when she does it.   The last time a giant bull was strolling through our back-back yard.   The time before it was a cougar.   

Our next dog(s) will be a couple of herding puppies.  It is DH's turn to pick.  There will be two mini diary goats for them to boss around.  

[Ausmumof3]

I have a bit of a bias against German Shepherds because one at my guinea pigs when I was a kid and used to growl whenever any kids went near it.

I do hear you on the soulmate thing.  While I’d never say a dog was my soul mate (since my first anyway) I have had one I just didn’t bond with.  He was an American staffy cross and in spite of the bad reputation he was amazing with our kids and no trouble at all with visitors etc.  he had a big bark and scared people away but never hurt a fly.  However he had some weird thing where patting him would make your skin itch awfully and also he was very much into dh more than me.

we have a border collie now and he’s very loving and always there when you need a hug.  Ironically we have had aggression issues with strangers and unfortunately because he looks adorable people aren’t so good at respecting his personal space as they are with a scarier looking dog.  So he’s great for protection but not really in the way you want!  Also I wouldn’t recommend it unless you can commit to a tonne!  Of walking daily.

if I was looking for a dog that would be both protection and companion I’d probably look for a Rotty.  We haven’t personally had one but know friends dogs who really really are all of that.  The only reason we didn’t end up with one is the upfront expense (around $2k from a reputable breeder before you even start with desexing costs etc).