"What can I use for homeschooling that is free and all online and requires no parent interaction and reads outloud becaus the child can't read"

[Carrie12345]

12 hours ago, whitehawk said:

This is legal in my state, to be fair. (Two families may make one homeschool).

Absolutely unheard of to expect a stranger to take on educating a teen, cheaply, right now as school's about to start with the parent not explaining what is wrong with continuing the previous schooling choice, but... um... good luck to them.

I have to admit, I once contemplated the idea of having a place where non-littles could go for the day, with independent work time (for their home curricula) and "specials"/extracurriculars. But never in a million years would it be cheap!

I did find that this year.  It's called a class at the CC, leaving her there 2 days a week with additional work, the gym, and whatever other activities are going on on campus those days. ?  (Still not exactly cheap, lol, but not too bad.)

[Clear Creek]

18 hours ago, Targhee said:

Another request I saw today was for a high school art history class, needs to include assignments and grading, and be free and online. I don't even understand how the dots are not connected that SOMEONE is working to make that happen, and should be compensated for it.

I saw that one (or an identical request if the one you saw was not on facebook); she went back later and edited it to add that she wanted a German class as well. ? I refrained from commenting since every comment in my head was probably more snarky than the admin of the group allows.

I have been trying to wrap my head around the thought process that leads a person to think that public school teachers are paid to teach and homeschoolers that teach other people's kids are not. Why one and not the other? It doesn't make sense.

[MysteryJen]

2 minutes ago, Clear Creek said:

I saw that one (or an identical request if the one you saw was not on facebook); she went back later and edited it to add that she wanted a German class as well. ? I refrained from commenting since every comment in my head was probably more snarky than the admin of the group allows.

I have been trying to wrap my head around the thought process that leads a person to think that public school teachers are paid to teach and homeschoolers that teach other people's kids are not. Why one and not the other? It doesn't make sense.

Sure it does, because teachers at school are “real” and homeschoolers are not.

Even homeschoolers with credentials are not considered to be “real” teachers.

[Targhee]

1 hour ago, MysteryJen said:

Sure it does, because teachers at school are “real” and homeschoolers are not.

Even homeschoolers with credentials are not considered to be “real” teachers.

I hate that thinking, and hear it too often. I work hard! (And happened to be credentialed too)

I think, however, that the disconnect is more insidious - people don’t connect what they pay in tax to the services they receive. Teachers, and public school, are “free” in their eyes. And if public school is free then homeschooling should definitely be free too!

[Tsuga]

I can't really get over the fact that these individuals are missing the fact that people like them, who want something for nothing, who want an easy out, are not just those who need public schools, but are the exact reason public schools do fail.

In areas where you do have free, excellent education with self-guided learning opportunities and choice, it is because homeowners pay tons of property taxes AND they volunteer and donate to the schools. Lots. Like, an average of $200/kid in our area, on top of a couple  hours a week per family with much more from some families. It is hard work to educate children!

[Carrie12345]

Someone in one of my groups posted yesterday, asking if anyone had a homeschool her 4yo could attend.

Just wanted to throw that out there since I haven't had any super recent examples to share during this thread. But that one was right on topic!  There was also a request for piano lessons cheaper than $15.  Is someone here trolling???

[medawyn]

On 8/20/2018 at 10:57 AM, teachermom2834 said:

One came across one of my groups just the other day:

"Decided not to send my teen back to public school. Looking for a cheap homeschool to send him to."

 

27 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Someone in one of my groups posted yesterday, asking if anyone had a homeschool her 4yo could attend.

Just wanted to throw that out there since I haven't had any super recent examples to share during this thread. But that one was right on topic!  There was also a request for piano lessons cheaper than $15.  Is someone here trolling???

Can we please hear some of the responses to these?  I’m just trying to wrap my head around what people think homeschooling actually is and what the community response is.

We definitely see requests for all online, blah, blah, blah in our local hs FB pages, but the admins are pretty great at pointing out the difference between online public school and homeschooling.  There is encouragement that you can work full time and homeschool, etc.  I don’t necessarily agree with all the conclusions, but most are more realistic than “2 hrs/day for your 10th grader”.  I keep my mouth shut because I have babies and don’t know anything, and because I realize my motivation for homeschooling (academic) and long history on this board shapes my perspective.

[Carrie12345]

37 minutes ago, medawyn said:

 

Can we please hear some of the responses to these?  I’m just trying to wrap my head around what people think homeschooling actually is and what the community response is.

We definitely see requests for all online, blah, blah, blah in our local hs FB pages, but the admins are pretty great at pointing out the difference between online public school and homeschooling.  There is encouragement that you can work full time and homeschool, etc.  I don’t necessarily agree with all the conclusions, but most are more realistic than “2 hrs/day for your 10th grader”.  I keep my mouth shut because I have babies and don’t know anything, and because I realize my motivation for homeschooling (academic) and long history on this board shapes my perspective.

 

Most of the responses for the piano lessons were that the $15 was an excellent price.  A few suggestions were made for computer programs and a specific teacher.

The homeschool thing was... interesting. People offered reasonable suggestions, including offering to mentor. The poster responded several times that she's not confident, doesn't want to teach, is lazy, doesn't want public school, and doesn't want to have to learn the information and laws. There really isn't anything anyone can do to help that situation.

[Targhee]

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

The homeschool thing was... interesting. People offered reasonable suggestions, including offering to mentor. The poster responded several times that she's not confident, doesn't want to teach, is lazy, doesn't want public school, and doesn't want to have to learn the information and laws. There really isn't anything anyone can do to help that situation.

These attitudes are so concerning to me. My heart aches for children who don’t receive a good education - whatever the context - but it also raises worry about my community and country.  So going back to some earlier ideas on this thread, do you (everyone reading this thread) think the homeschool community is partially (or even mostly) to blame for these concerning perspectives/attitudes, with all the of the “it’s so easy, anyone can homeschool, it only takes a fraction of the time of school, you can do it for free, etc” messages circulated by Homeschoolers?  And if so, how can we counteract it? Is it our responsibility to counteract it?

[SamanthaCarter]

I think we can counteract these attitudes by being a broken record.  “Oh, I could never homeschool -is it hard?” “Yes, I work very hard at it” “I’ve though about homeschooling - you are so lucky” “It’s a full time job, but yes I feel lucky to be able to do this work instead of paid work.” 

“Work”

“Work”

”Work”

ad nauseum. 

[Tsuga]

23 minutes ago, Targhee said:

These attitudes are so concerning to me. My heart aches for children who don’t receive a good education - whatever the context - but it also raises worry about my community and country.  So going back to some earlier ideas on this thread, do you (everyone reading this thread) think the homeschool community is partially (or even mostly) to blame for these concerning perspectives/attitudes, with all the of the “it’s so easy, anyone can homeschool, it only takes a fraction of the time of school, you can do it for free, etc” messages circulated by Homeschoolers?  And if so, how can we counteract it? Is it our responsibility to counteract it?

I do not think the homeschool community is responsible for lazy people any more than public school is responsible. When you get a critical mass of anything, you attract hangers on who are looking for shortcuts.

Our society in general promotes laziness not because of social programs (many countries with social programs are only able to do so because of the strong culture of self reliance), and not because we encourage people to try. I think our commitment to rights based language gets us into a lot of conversations about what we think we should get. We need a bill of duties.

But Americans reject that. A duty to speak respectfully? OMG orwellian political correctness. A duty to pay taxes even though I don't like the schools superintendent? Someone shoot me, I'm no longer free. A duty to vote? A duty to speak up when you see violence? A duty to wear a seat belt? Educate your child? To learn to drive correctly to a high standard? Nope, people are too worried about being oppressed.

Our culture is very selfish and lazy period, and it does make it hard to implement anything on a large scale (public, private or homeschool) because we don't have a structured way to deal with the children of the bottom 10% of any given category. Not talking about the extreme poor necessarily--we we're poor but that wasn't an excuse. I mean the folks you all are talking about. The 10% most lazy.

[Tsuga]

I have never heard anyone with educated children suggest that homeschooling could be done in a fraction of the time you can do public school. The kid spends less time in transition but the parent will ALWAYS spend more because of prep time. I think the rule is 2:1 prep to instruction right?

I would tell people to plan for that. So for a kindergartener with 30 minutes of reading and 30 minutes of math,. You have two hours of prep (choosing books, understanding literacy, creating the environment, learning to cope with opposition). You're already exceeding 95% of public school time expectations.

[Sneezyone]

Homeschooling *IS* is work and I say that all the time to people who ask me about it, particularly when you're not using an open and go box of stuff from a single provider. Still, I'm afraid that it sometimes comes across as easy to people who are just passing through our lives. They don't see all the stuff that happens behind the scenes, the materials prep, the thinking, the assessing. It's taken me four years to get comfortable building my own courses (pulling the scaffolding down) but all they see is the final product.

[Targhee]

3 hours ago, Tsuga said:

I do not think the homeschool community is responsible for lazy people any more than public school is responsible. When you get a critical mass of anything, you attract hangers on who are looking for shortcuts.

Our society in general promotes laziness not because of social programs (many countries with social programs are only able to do so because of the strong culture of self reliance), and not because we encourage people to try. I think our commitment to rights based language gets us into a lot of conversations about what we think we should get. We need a bill of duties.

But Americans reject that. A duty to speak respectfully? OMG orwellian political correctness. A duty to pay taxes even though I don't like the schools superintendent? Someone shoot me, I'm no longer free. A duty to vote? A duty to speak up when you see violence? A duty to wear a seat belt? Educate your child? To learn to drive correctly to a high standard? Nope, people are too worried about being oppressed.

Our culture is very selfish and lazy period, and it does make it hard to implement anything on a large scale (public, private or homeschool) because we don't have a structured way to deal with the children of the bottom 10% of any given category. Not talking about the extreme poor necessarily--we we're poor but that wasn't an excuse. I mean the folks you all are talking about. The 10% most lazy.

Yes - I think we do need to emphasize responsibilities/duties as much or more than rights!

So how do we define those responsibilities/duties without it being authoritarian/dictatorial/Orwellian/oppressive?? It opens up a whole slough of questions. Where’s the balance of expectation and freedom? Have we removed the “natural consequences” of not fulfilling your responsibilities? Is this a “character flaw” in some members of society? Or is it something that can be changed/addresses by outside structure? Is it the role of government to step in? Is it the role of individuals and communities? And if so, how do we ensure the government or the individuals and communities are just? 

 

[Targhee]

3 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Homeschooling *IS* is work and I say that all the time to people who ask me about it, particularly when you're not using an open and go box of stuff from a single provider. Still, I'm afraid that it sometimes comes across as easy to people who are just passing through our lives. They don't see all the stuff that happens behind the scenes, the materials prep, the thinking, the assessing. It's taken me four years to get comfortable building my own courses (pulling the scaffolding down) but all they see is the final product.

The work of thinking is highly undervalued.

Research, study, compare, evaluate, coordinate, synthesize, re-evaluate... and that’s just in the summer leading up to the start of the implement, assess, adapt, respond, evaluate part of the year. 

[EmseB]

4 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Homeschooling *IS* is work and I say that all the time to people who ask me about it, particularly when you're not using an open and go box of stuff from a single provider. Still, I'm afraid that it sometimes comes across as easy to people who are just passing through our lives. They don't see all the stuff that happens behind the scenes, the materials prep, the thinking, the assessing. It's taken me four years to get comfortable building my own courses (pulling the scaffolding down) but all they see is the final product.

 

We do the bolded and I don't plan on ever building my own courses. I have my lessons/pacing all planned out for me, subjects that my kids will do, books and texts to be read, etc., but I still do what seems like a ton of pre-reading, figuring out how to adapt lesson plans to two very different kiddos (i.e., I've taught this lit book before, but DS9 needs more support than DS10 did when he read it), and then practical stuff like organizing flashcards, notebooks, printing out tests, and on and on.

When it comes down to it, I don't really think anything is ever truly just open-and-go. One way or another someone has to put some skin in the game even if you buy a box or an online curriculum.

[EmseB]

1 minute ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m not sure this is quite right either though.  It takes time and energy, but it’s not like it’s some insanely difficult work or workload.  How does one balance the rest and joy of being at home and teaching children at their own pace with the research and time that goes into it?  Whenever someone talks about how hard it must be and how they could never do it, it sets up this weird dichotomy that isn’t true.  Most determined, intelligent parents who have the means  to prioritize home education can do so - it’s not some super special and exclusive epic calling like summiting Everest or making a Nobel worthy contribution to a field.  But neither is it work free, care free, or cost free.  It does take time and energy, and it can be challenging and consuming, but it isn’t inherently *difficult*.

 

I guess I get why answers on the topic can be all over the place - it’s not straightforward at all.  I’ve been educating since 7:30 this morning, off and on.  My kids have completely between 3-7 hours of school depending on the kid, and I’ve supervised or taught all of it.  But I also did dishes, laundry, cooked two meals, took a short nap, read two chapters in my own leisure reading, etc. I’m constantly switching among different tasks, and it’s not some epic feat any other mom couldn’t do.  Some days or subjects or kids are much more challenging than others, but I hate representing it as ‘hard work’ because it doesn’t feel like it is.  It is consistent vocation - a lifestyle calling and application of self and resources.  But the intensity definitely varies from moment to moment.

 

I’m not making any sense, am I? ?

I see this dichotomy too. I feel like I'm afforded an insane luxury, being able to be home learning with my kids all day. But it does take work to give them a good education and sometimes it is hectic and not what I picture as ideal.

When people give me the, "I could never do that. You're amazing," stuff, I generally respond by saying, "Well, it is a commitment." Which to me means it's work, but not insurmountable. And when people say, "I am not cut out for that," I say, "No one really is. I've spent the last 5 years being taught patience, diligence, and flexibility. I don't do this without making mistakes."

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

 

Most of the responses for the piano lessons were that the $15 was an excellent price.  A few suggestions were made for computer programs and a specific teacher.

The homeschool thing was... interesting. People offered reasonable suggestions, including offering to mentor. The poster responded several times that she's not confident, doesn't want to teach, is lazy, doesn't want public school, and doesn't want to have to learn the information and laws. There really isn't anything anyone can do to help that situation.

Good grief. 

[BusyMom5]

Can I add a vent about older kids being able to "do it all on their own?"  Mine dont!  I spend way more time prepping HS science, history and math than I spend teaching Mt 2nd grader (bc I know everything from 2nd grade).  I'm having to relearn, find videos to match up, read literature books iread 20 years ago so I can get topics to discuss, not to mention trying to find materials that fit ther budget.  Which is the other thing about elementary vs. High School.  You can find plenty of stuff at the library for elementary.  Workbooks are reasonably cheap.  High school stuff just costs more.

[HomeAgain]

3 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

Can I add a vent about older kids being able to "do it all on their own?"  Mine dont!  I spend way more time prepping HS science, history and math than I spend teaching Mt 2nd grader (bc I know everything from 2nd grade).  I'm having to relearn, find videos to match up, read literature books iread 20 years ago so I can get topics to discuss, not to mention trying to find materials that fit ther budget.  Which is the other thing about elementary vs. High School.  You can find plenty of stuff at the library for elementary.  Workbooks are reasonably cheap.  High school stuff just costs more.

That was one thing that frustrated me about Rethinking School. It called for increasingly independent stages of education without taking into account that maybe the homeschooling parent would be the teacher in high school instead of the administrator for outsourced classes.  It puts way too much on the student without feedback.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Targhee said:

These attitudes are so concerning to me. My heart aches for children who don’t receive a good education - whatever the context - but it also raises worry about my community and country.  So going back to some earlier ideas on this thread, do you (everyone reading this thread) think the homeschool community is partially (or even mostly) to blame for these concerning perspectives/attitudes, with all the of the “it’s so easy, anyone can homeschool, it only takes a fraction of the time of school, you can do it for free, etc” messages circulated by Homeschoolers?  And if so, how can we counteract it? Is it our responsibility to counteract it?

Yes, I feel the homeschooling community itself is largely to blame for the “neglect your children for free at home!” misinformation. I point especially hard at unschooling/radical unschooling, as well as the larger anti-intellectualism I see promoted in society today. 

It could be a whole thread of it’s own, but I am very annoyed with and leery of the pushback against college that seems to be gaining serious ground. I’m seeing it a lot in kids (actually, their parents) from different schooling backgrounds, but it seems to be really gaining popularity amongst hsers. First, do a crappy job homeschooling them all the way up. Then shrug that you don’t believe in standardized test scores and don’t want them to go to college anyway.

i could rant about that till the cows come home...

 

 

ETA to include a “don’t”

Edited August 22, 2018 by Quill

[homemommy83]

22 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m not sure this is quite right either though.  It takes time and energy, but it’s not like it’s some insanely difficult work or workload.  How does one balance the rest and joy of being at home and teaching children at their own pace with the research and time that goes into it?  Whenever someone talks about how hard it must be and how they could never do it, it sets up this weird dichotomy that isn’t true.  Most determined, intelligent parents who have the means  to prioritize home education can do so - it’s not some super special and exclusive epic calling like summiting Everest or making a Nobel worthy contribution to a field.  But neither is it work free, care free, or cost free.  It does take time and energy, and it can be challenging and consuming, but it isn’t inherently *difficult*.

 

I guess I get why answers on the topic can be all over the place - it’s not straightforward at all.  I’ve been educating since 7:30 this morning, off and on.  My kids have completely between 3-7 hours of school depending on the kid, and I’ve supervised or taught all of it.  But I also did dishes, laundry, cooked two meals, took a short nap, read two chapters in my own leisure reading, etc. I’m constantly switching among different tasks, and it’s not some epic feat any other mom couldn’t do.  Some days or subjects or kids are much more challenging than others, but I hate representing it as ‘hard work’ because it doesn’t feel like it is.  It is consistent vocation - a lifestyle calling and application of self and resources.  But the intensity definitely varies from moment to moment.

 

I’m not making any sense, am I? ?

I think the amount of work it feels like also has a lot to do with a persons energy levels.  A high energy person can do so much more and still feel relaxed than a person suffering from fibromyalgia or in the beginning of pregnancy.  It really is perspective. 

I am like you however, and while I am always doing something for one of the children, cooking, or cleaning, but I personally don't feel like it is hard work.  It is because I truly enjoy every aspect of mothering and homeschooling...and I am able to put all of my time and energy into it how I personally want to.  When I worked more outside of the home...it was much harder, but only because more needed done in less time.  

I am one of those homeschooling moms whose goal is to have all seatwork and my tutoring time done by lunch so I can focus on other motherly duties....and I love spending that time organizing curriculum and setting up checklist and researching methods ect...it is how I mentally recharge; but for others this is what they find draining.  Personality affects how different tasks are perceived.  So while one on one I may be done by 1 most days....tutoring is just part of what I do in regards to homeschooling.

Also, just mentally knowing that all of your child's education is upon your shoulders can be exhausting from the constant thoughts of... should I try this or should I work on that or why didn't I do that special study of such and such before they hit HS-kwim. 

It is the most rewarding thing that I have done for our family and I truly feel blessed to be able to put my focus and energy into educating and building relationships with my children.

[Reefgazer]

I am on another homeschooling forum and someone just posted that they want to homeschool their child but don't have the patience to teach them.  They were asking for hands-off online curriculum.  Um, try public or private school.

[LMD]

3 hours ago, Targhee said:

The work of thinking is highly undervalued.

Research, study, compare, evaluate, coordinate, synthesize, re-evaluate... and that’s just in the summer leading up to the start of the implement, assess, adapt, respond, evaluate part of the year. 

Yes, my dh scolded me for giving away too freely the work of all my years of thinking/researching/reading/discussing/trying/rethinking.

I'm now more than happy to help new homeschoolers - help them to be prepared to do the work of homeschooling themselves.

[HS Mom in NC]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

Yes, I feel the homeschooling community itself is largely to blame for the “neglect your children for free at home!” misinformation. I point especially hard at unschooling/radical unschooling, as well as the larger anti-intellectualism I see promoted in society today. 

It could be a whole thread of it’s own, but I am very annoyed with and leery of the pushback against college that seems to be gaining serious ground. I’m seeing it a lot in kids (actually, their parents) from different schooling backgrounds, but it seems to be really gaining popularity amongst hsers. First, do a crappy job homeschooling them all the way up. Then shrug that you don’t believe in standardized test scores and don’t want them to go to college anyway.

i could rant about that till the cows come home...

ETA to include a “don’t”

Looking back over 18 years of homeschooling I saw distinct phases.  Phase 1 (in the year 2000) I was listening to homeschool speakers at my state convention who started homeschooling while it was still a legal grey area, who didn't have a lot of curriculum resources, didn't know many other homeschoolers, and had to put up with harsh criticism from everyone they met.  They talked about overcoming obstacles, maximizing learning opportunities, and designing their own curriculum/courses of study.  All of that conveyed work, diligence, and perseverance.

By around 2006ish I would say there was a strong push to bump up the homeschooling numbers.  There seemed to be people speaking at my state convention who spent a lot of time talking about it being easier than people thought, about a lifestyle of spontaneous learning (which I categorize differently than unschooling-I know some excellent unschoolers) more than academic rigor, that relationships were the most important thing, etc.

I last attended around 2010-2012ish  when the state convention opened with a prayer service, bible reading, and hymn singing.  I like all those things, I just don't want them at my convention about academics. The focus was very heavy on worldview and faith based studies.  Again, not something I take issue with in general, but it was disproportionate. The focus on academic rigor was at the lowest I'd seen.  Talk was still focused on relationships and lifestyle.

Meanwhile, I would say talk at the big support groups seemed to me to follow this pattern too.  I think there's been general complacency with the community as a whole. They know some homeschoolers who got into Ivy League and select state universities and seem to believe that most homeschooling will get them there just because the kids were homeschooled. Unless they're anti-college for philosophical reasons, in which case they believe the kids will be primed for skilled labor training/certification because they read a lot of character studies. Why they think skilled labor training and those attending there are any more Christian in worldview than college, I don't know.

[brehon]

3 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Materials do get more expensive and I have more prep for my older kids too, they’re not even high school yet.  But the day to day supervision and teaching time is WAY less intensive.  I’m more a facilitator than a teacher, for them.  I ask the questions that get them to think, supply the stuff, bust heads (lovingly), give chocolate, keep records, and chauffeur.  But it’s not like with my littler people, where I’m 100% on for two hours straight, at a minimum, for each of them.  They’re completely unable to work independently and that chains my day and work flow way more than the bigs.

 

It’s just hard in a different way, for me.  

I don’t know, AM. I have 2 high schoolers with nr 3 right behind. Yes, I facilitate and chauffeur. However, I’ve spent I don’t know how many hours researching, reading, comparing, evaluating resources, and writing various syllabi. And that’s just developing and organizing the courses. I’ll spend countless more hours discussing literature (that I need to pre-read because it’s been 30 years), helping with organizing papers, grading essays and research papers, grading other tests/quizzes/labs, etc, etc, etc. 

And that’s before I even start writing course descriptions, making sure my hs’ers keep up with their book lists (and I feel like this shouldn’t be difficult), and updating the transcripts.  All the while worrying about applying for university and freaking out about finances.

And all of that occurs while also teaching K, 3rd, 6th, & 8th. 

Maybe I’m doing it wrong, but it sure seems like hard, intensive work to me and I’ll admit that it’s exhausting sometimes. 

[Targhee]

4 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m not sure this is quite right either though.  It takes time and energy, but it’s not like it’s some insanely difficult work or workload.  How does one balance the rest and joy of being at home and teaching children at their own pace with the research and time that goes into it?  Whenever someone talks about how hard it must be and how they could never do it, it sets up this weird dichotomy that isn’t true.  Most determined, intelligent parents who have the means  to prioritize home education can do so - it’s not some super special and exclusive epic calling like summiting Everest or making a Nobel worthy contribution to a field.  But neither is it work free, care free, or cost free.  It does take time and energy, and it can be challenging and consuming, but it isn’t inherently *difficult*.

 

I guess I get why answers on the topic can be all over the place - it’s not straightforward at all.  I’ve been educating since 7:30 this morning, off and on.  My kids have completely between 3-7 hours of school depending on the kid, and I’ve supervised or taught all of it.  But I also did dishes, laundry, cooked two meals, took a short nap, read two chapters in my own leisure reading, etc. I’m constantly switching among different tasks, and it’s not some epic feat any other mom couldn’t do.  Some days or subjects or kids are much more challenging than others, but I hate representing it as ‘hard work’ because it doesn’t feel like it is.  It is consistent vocation - a lifestyle calling and application of self and resources.  But the intensity definitely varies from moment to moment.

 

I’m not making any sense, am I? ?

You are right. It isn’t epically hard. Nor easy and free.  And how much you expend is different depending on circumstances - I’m impressed with your day! That’s me on a good day, but not an average day. I have three 2e kids plus a 1st grader, a spouse who works inconsistent 12-hour (365, 24/7 possibilities) shift work, and until recently had NO family support. Even after doing course design (or even “just” researching and selecting materials/outside courses) I still have to do more than facilitate my teens’ work - there’s grading, discussions, a few classes I still actually teach them, and helping them with continual development of executive skills.  My experience will be different than someone educating 7 kids at home infant to teen on a shoestring budget, or someone homeschooling two average kids in a very supportive community and deep pockets, or a single parent working and homeschooling, etc.

I do think the unseen mental effort that goes into it is undervalued.

[SamanthaCarter]

46 minutes ago, StellaM said:

Some people are suited; this 'job' hits all my skill sets, and so a lot of the work feels more like an enjoyable hobby to me. I love the research and planning, I enjoy the teaching. 

-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-

There is no 'correct' narrative around homeschooling. Some people are suited, some aren't but do it anyway, some aren't and can't. Some students need more instruction rather than less as they grow, some students don't. Some students need to follow a curriculum closely related to the standard, some don't. Some parents can school and work, some can't. Some kids thrive with outsourcing, some don't. 

I feel like this conversation has just identified an income stream for me; I love, adore and thrive on elementary education - I'm open to being a place where some parents leave some kids for some pay for skills based but interest led education. We need more models of education, not less. Can't blame anyone for not wanting to be in the school system, but looking for someone other than trad homeschool at home.

I would totally snap up a “governess” of some sort. This homeschooling gig is not in my skill set. I feel like I do it tolerably well, but it is truly exhausting for me. I love my kiddos, and I get glimpses of the joy in homeschooling, but I don’t think I get as much from it as some moms do. And I think that probably effects the quality. My child that exhausts me the most is the one who needs it the most. I’d pay somebody all of my after-tax income if I could work full time and leave my kids in some capable, nurturing hands with similar academic philosophy. 

Edited August 23, 2018 by SamanthaCarter

[brehon]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

To the bolded, isn’t that just life?  I mean, I’d be spending that time somehow, I’m not inordinately busier than I’d be in another lifestyle.  Less so, I’d say, since I have more flexibility and choice.  

I’m doing something almost every hour of every day, but so is everyone else.  I mean, my husband started work at 6:30 am and rolled home at 5:40 pm after a ten minute commute and a solid day of nonstop high level thinking and math.  My day was WAY less intense.

The parenting part is hard sometimes, as is the housekeeping part.  The academics have been the smoothest part ?

Yeah, I record and grade everyone throughout the day.  We talk.  Even as I’m cooking or sitting or putting on makeup or teaching someone else.  That’s like, the default, though.  I mean I do those things and I class my older students as extremely independent. 

This could be a personality thing too, and we all have different skill sets.  

Ah, maybe that’s the difference. I also work on average 80 hours per week in a very high stress job. Sure, everyone has different skill sets. I just find that I work much harder, especially intellectually, with my high schoolers than I ever did/do with my youngers, including my 8th grader who is extremely advanced in math. 

I also think there is a qualitative difference in teaching the elementary/middle school hroups and the high school group, at least with my kids. Maybe I’m an outlier and others will reach high school with their kids and they’ll sail through with flying colors. As I said I’m probably doing the high school gig wrong. 

[frogger]

Well, I find juggling everything hard. I love teaching math concept, looking at visuals, watching light bulbs go on. I love reading and discussing literature, science, economics, history. The hard part is fitting all that in while tailoring the education to fit dramatically different children while running a home with teens that never stop eating but on a budget so no premade food or eating out while trying to snake drains or pay bills. I love teaching. I don't mind cleaning or cooking. I get satisfaction out of organizing. Dislike driving all over but it's not super hard though can be stressful in rush hour with low visibility and ice.

 

Yes, most of these things are fairly easy. Fitting in everything though feels, quite frankly, impossible.  

[Tsuga]

9 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m not sure this is quite right either though.  It takes time and energy, but it’s not like it’s some insanely difficult work or workload.  How does one balance the rest and joy of being at home and teaching children at their own pace with the research and time that goes into it?  Whenever someone talks about how hard it must be and how they could never do it, it sets up this weird dichotomy that isn’t true.  Most determined, intelligent parents who have the means  to prioritize home education can do so - it’s not some super special and exclusive epic calling like summiting Everest or making a Nobel worthy contribution to a field.  But neither is it work free, care free, or cost free.  It does take time and energy, and it can be challenging and consuming, but it isn’t inherently *difficult*.

 

I guess I get why answers on the topic can be all over the place - it’s not straightforward at all.  I’ve been educating since 7:30 this morning, off and on.  My kids have completely between 3-7 hours of school depending on the kid, and I’ve supervised or taught all of it.  But I also did dishes, laundry, cooked two meals, took a short nap, read two chapters in my own leisure reading, etc. I’m constantly switching among different tasks, and it’s not some epic feat any other mom couldn’t do.  Some days or subjects or kids are much more challenging than others, but I hate representing it as ‘hard work’ because it doesn’t feel like it is.  It is consistent vocation - a lifestyle calling and application of self and resources.  But the intensity definitely varies from moment to moment.

 

I’m not making any sense, am I? ?

It would be incredibly difficult for me to homeschool my kids because of temperamental differences on top of parent-child dynamics.

I think for many people homeschool is very hard work.

Though I am happy for you that it is your vocation. That is a blessing.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Tsuga

[Tsuga]

On 8/22/2018 at 2:25 PM, Seasider too said:

 

I hear you. I think what many look at and call "hard" is stuff beyond the actual home schooling. Like, maybe they're counting the opportunity cost, or burden of responsibility for their child's effective education. I do think those are a big part of the package. I feel very sure that some of the women who have told me, "I couldn't homeschool, it's too hard!" are actually telling me they don't want to spend most all waking hours directing the activities of their pupils, be it easy or difficult. 

Well yeah, that's totally the hard part. I taught for a couple years. Not my calling. It is hard to direct other people. I don't like it. It takes a ton of effort. On the other hand, conform millions of rows of data and find relationships? That's a day at Disneyland for me.

The point is that "hard" depends in natural talent, habit and practice; when someone says homeschooling would be ahrd for them, believe them. It probably would be.

[Chelli]

So tonight in a Facebook group I'm in, one mom finally called it like it is.

She was complaining that online and in person classes for homeschoolers are so expensive, and do those of us who provide that service not understand that homeschoolers only live on one income and thus cannot afford these awesome opportunities for our children.

A woman in the comments called it "elitist type junk." 

IOW, since we chose to homeschool, you should give us all of your hard work prepping for the class along with all grading responsibilities to us for free. So despite the fact that I've spent all summer prepping for an online literature and writing class I'm teaching this year (for only $30 a month!), which includes deep literature discussions and graded writing assignments with personalized suggestions to improve their writing, I should offer all of this for free because I should be understanding of the financial constraints of other homeschoolers and not be elitist. ?

Don't get me wrong. I wanted to enroll my oldest in an online class this year, but could not raise the funds to do so. However, I don't begrudge the teacher for that circumstance. She deserves to get paid.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

13 minutes ago, Chelli said:

So tonight in a Facebook group I'm in, one mom finally called it like it is.

She was complaining that online and in person classes for homeschoolers are so expensive, and do those of us who provide that service not understand that homeschoolers only live on one income and thus cannot afford these awesome opportunities for our children.

A woman in the comments called it "elitist type junk." 

IOW, since we chose to homeschool, you should give us all of your hard work prepping for the class along with all grading responsibilities to us for free. So despite the fact that I've spent all summer prepping for an online literature and writing class I'm teaching this year (for only $30 a month!), which includes deep literature discussions and graded writing assignments with personalized suggestions to improve their writing, I should offer all of this for free because I should be understanding of the financial constraints of other homeschoolers and not be elitist. ? 

Don't get me wrong. I wanted to enroll my oldest in an online class this year, but could not raise the funds to do so. However, I don't begrudge the teacher for that circumstance. She deserves to get paid.

 

Did anyone answer her? 

[Chelli]

1 minute ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

Did anyone answer her? 

Oh yes! 

Around 100 responses with about 90% of them agreeing with the original poster and complaining about cost. About 10% of the responses are from those of us who teach homeschoolers in some capacity trying to point out that what she's asking for isn't fair.

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

26 minutes ago, Chelli said:

Oh yes! 

Around 100 responses with about 90% of them agreeing with the original poster and complaining about cost. About 10% of the responses are from those of us who teach homeschoolers in some capacity trying to point out that what she's asking for isn't fair.

 

 

A lot of us have stopped working with homeschoolers, or changed the capacity in which we are willing to work. For example, I'll be willing to homeschool my own grandchildren, but I don't participate in FB homeschool groups and I don't go to conventions anymore. I have several friends who are not going to teach co-op anymore (or for much longer), but they are working as guidance counselors to successful, DIY hs'ing families.

So the new, entitled hs'ers can keep kicking, but eventually there will be nobody left to kick!

[EmseB]

2 hours ago, Chelli said:

Oh yes! 

Around 100 responses with about 90% of them agreeing with the original poster and complaining about cost. About 10% of the responses are from those of us who teach homeschoolers in some capacity trying to point out that what she's asking for isn't fair.

 

1

The problem is free and cheap doesn't work either, really. Because the same people wanting free and cheap resources are the ones who don't show up, flake out, send their kids unprepared, don't care about their kids' behavior... precisely because they don't value the time or work of the teacher. In my experience.

And I should disclaim that I'm not talking about all people who can't afford the cost of some of these things. I'm talking about a specific group of people who don't see the value and think that teachers and authors should just give stuff away.

[Tsuga]

3 hours ago, Chelli said:

Oh yes! 

Around 100 responses with about 90% of them agreeing with the original poster and complaining about cost. About 10% of the responses are from those of us who teach homeschoolers in some capacity trying to point out that what she's asking for isn't fair.

Wait... They said you should educate their kids for them for free? Because paying for stuff is elitist? Or getting paid for work is elitist?

Between the 2016 election and this thread I am feeling so elite right now what with my whole paying for stuff I get and paying taxes for the services I use.

Elite! Me! With my 15 year old car and Goodwill pants!

I wish I could like EsmeB's post 15 times because it is so true. People who think things should be free just don't value them.

[LMD]

? very quotable Tsuga 

"paying for stuff is elitist" - I really can't believe that people think this stuff out loud...

"People who think things should be free just don't value them." - well said.

[Carrie12345]

8 hours ago, Chelli said:

Oh yes! 

Around 100 responses with about 90% of them agreeing with the original poster and complaining about cost. About 10% of the responses are from those of us who teach homeschoolers in some capacity trying to point out that what she's asking for isn't fair.

 

That breaks my heart.

I pass on a lot of options because I can't fit them in the budget.  I have taught for the equivalent of very few dollars as a way to support my community and reduce my costs.  I think labors of love are great, and I appreciate everyone who performs them.  

That said, no one's product, skill, or time and effort becomes less valuable by virtue of my status as a homeschooler.  When I go to the grocery store, I can't ask them to reduce my bill because I live on one income, or ask for a sibling discount because I chose to have 5 kids.  Well, I could, but they'd discover I'm insane. 

My current point of view is that you MUST HAVE some combination of 3 things in order to homeschool; money, skill, and time/effort.  You can probably do without one of those things if you have the other two.  You may even be able to manage with a ton of just one thing and a splash of a second.  If you can't spend money, can't use skills, and can't put in the work... well, there are people available to provide those things for you at the local public school.  Most of them don't get paid well enough either, but you get a hefty discount off the already low price tag!

 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

I joined the ranks of the elite a long time ago.

[....]

11 hours ago, Chelli said:

She was complaining that online and in person classes for homeschoolers are so expensive, and do those of us who provide that service not understand that homeschoolers only live on one income and thus cannot afford these awesome opportunities for our children.

A woman in the comments called it "elitist type junk." 

IOW, since we chose to homeschool, you should give us all of your hard work prepping for the class along with all grading responsibilities to us for free. So despite the fact that I've spent all summer prepping for an online literature and writing class I'm teaching this year (for only $30 a month!), which includes deep literature discussions and graded writing assignments with personalized suggestions to improve their writing, I should offer all of this for free because I should be understanding of the financial constraints of other homeschoolers and not be elitist. ?

 

 

Some of my thoughts (and numbered!, because I am an INTJ - Lol)

1.  $30 a month for a privately-taught course is about right - market-value for an outsourced course.  Our homeschool enrichment center is about $500 a school year for a course.  But, that is at a physical location where they have to pay rent, utilities, etc.  So, $300 for a year-long online course is about right, IMO.

2.  You're allowed to charge what you want to charge for the course.  The enrichment center is totally allowed to charge 500 bucks for a class if they are able to get customers willing to pay that price.  People are allowed to make money.  Businesses are allowed to make money.  If homeschoolers can't afford a course there, they can always do something like dual enrollment at the cc or find a co-op.  Or maybe they just can't afford an outsourced class that year.    

3.  We generally can't afford to take more than one outsourced class a year and honestly, this might be our last year outsourcing at all.  We have 7 people living on 1 income and one is getting ready to start college.  I understand being frustrated, but everyone isn't entitled to let us take classes for free just because we can't afford it.  We chose to live on one income.  I could easily choose to get a job and earn more money to buy more outsourced classes.  But, I don't want to.  I'm not entitled to free courses somewhere just because we can't afford it.  

4.  It does tend to be higher-income, upper middle class people at these homeschooling activities/enrichment centers with outsourced classes - at least around here it is.  I feel a twinge of frustration at my inability to afford certain things for my kids, too.  It's the "I just can't keep UP with these people" frustration.  But, those people are allowed to buy stuff for their kids.  It's not their fault I can't afford something.  I showed up at a homeschool activity and sighed as I parked my used minivan in between two Mercedes recently, so I actually understand what they're trying to say...but they're sounding bitter and jealous or something....  I miss that old chill pill emoji.  That would be appropriate for them.  Lol.             

5.  These newer homeschoolers need to understand that you do NOT have to outsource your classes.  I understand taking one for fun or something, but most of the homeschoolers I'm around at the high school level are outsourcing everything.  That's just really, really not necessary.  And I believe it's changing what homeschooling looks like and everyone's expectations of homeschooling.       

[....]

17 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

I've been out of the loop for awhile, too, and my homes-schooled son graduated a few years ago. I never saw stuff like this. Most of the people I knew locally IRL were examples of home school greatness that were role models for me. Well, there was this one family I knew that was off the grid and their son wasn't being actively (IMO) educated. They were very much into conspiracy theories. 

What is being described in this thread sounds like a whole new generation that has this not so realistic idea that they can do all this and work, too, while using free or cheap materials. It makes me wonder what might have changed so much to have all these coming out now and searching for this way of schooling. 

This is news to me. Being out of the loop and being older,  I haven't seen this.

 

We could almost start a new thread about how much homeschooling has changed!  My sisters homeschooled in the early 90s and we've homeschooled for about 10 years (which really isn't *that* long - I have 15 more to go).  But, I've noticed drastic changes in homeschooling just from when we started 10 years ago.  And homeschooling now looks nothing like homeschooling when my sisters were homeschooling in the 90s.  I actually have a hard time even reading this forum and not cringing, sometimes, because what people are doing is just so drastically different from how I saw my sisters homeschool.  

My sisters didn't have curriculum (my mom said there basically wasn't any), they just kinda read books, bought books at the bookstore and did stuff, like one of them did a lot of volunteer work at nursing homes.  My mom let them take dual enrollment classes.  It wasn't like a regimented school-at-home thing with a set daily schedule, a school room, a homeschool name, tons of activities, curriculum to barrel through, etc.  And my sisters turned out fine.  One is an attorney and the other is a nurse practitioner.  The youngest one is actually in the running for an adjunct professor position right now.  I mean, they turned out ok, educationally...?

And homeschooling now versus 10 years ago is weird, too!  At this point, I only know one other family homeschooling high school where the mom is teaching the classes at home.  Everyone else outsources everything at an enrichment center or does dual enrollment in college.  And everything is very curriculum-oriented.  If they're not paying for a class, they're following a rigid curriculum.

*shrug*     

[KungFuPanda]

15 hours ago, Chelli said:

So tonight in a Facebook group I'm in, one mom finally called it like it is.

She was complaining that online and in person classes for homeschoolers are so expensive, and do those of us who provide that service not understand that homeschoolers only live on one income and thus cannot afford these awesome opportunities for our children.

A woman in the comments called it "elitist type junk." 

IOW, since we chose to homeschool, you should give us all of your hard work prepping for the class along with all grading responsibilities to us for free. So despite the fact that I've spent all summer prepping for an online literature and writing class I'm teaching this year (for only $30 a month!), which includes deep literature discussions and graded writing assignments with personalized suggestions to improve their writing, I should offer all of this for free because I should be understanding of the financial constraints of other homeschoolers and not be elitist. ?

Don't get me wrong. I wanted to enroll my oldest in an online class this year, but could not raise the funds to do so. However, I don't begrudge the teacher for that circumstance. She deserves to get paid.

 

Ugh. “I chose not to work, therefore YOU should work for free to support my lifestyle.”

[Targhee]

2 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

What is being described in this thread sounds like a whole new generation that has this not so realistic idea that they can do all this and work, too, while using free or cheap materials. It makes me wonder what might have changed so much to have all these coming out now and searching for this way of schooling. 

This is news to me. Being out of the loop and being older,  I haven't seen this.

Me too. Not to sound like a Luddite, but I think the Internet and a shift generally in society to web- and device- delivered content (news, business info, travel info, banking, books, entertainment, etc) plays a part. There’s a new expectation for on-demand, full-function goods and services that are “free” (aka you relinquish your rights to your personal information, habits, other market research info, and privacy in trade for a good or service which you mistakenly perceive as free).

But also, not entirely unrelated, despite all the being “plugged in” in the world there’s greater personal disconnect. People spend less time in-person, face-to-face. And often what transpires in virtual interaction is less personal, disingenuous, or outright false. I think it is detrimental to our ability to fully connect with people, including our children. (Yes I know there are great ways to connect online that do enhance relationships, but I do believe what I said is generally true for most).

So there’s an expectation of well-designed and “free” services, and a diminished ability to fully engage with our kids for hours on end each day.

There are a host of other factors I’m sure. But this is something that stands out in my mind.

[Chelli]

11 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

 

Ugh. “I chose not to work, therefore YOU should work for free to support my lifestyle.”

No joke!

Now who's the elitist...

[SeaConquest]

It's not apparent here just how widespread the problem is because this place tends to attract a certain breed of homeschooler (which is why I find this forum more valuable than any other). I am in a bajillion FB homeschool groups, which range from the academically-focused to the secular/diversity/inclusivity-focused to the local groups. My local groups in Southern California are the worst. You take this huge pool of homeschoolers, who only have their location in common, and you get constant squabbles between the unschoolers/relaxed v academic, the religious v secular, the vax v anti-vax, the conservative v liberal, the charter v private homeschoolers. The admins spend half their time having to regulate the infighting, and deleting any thread that gets heated, which makes it difficult to even find out what is going on locally. So, we all tend to split off into these subgroups of subgroups. And, as I mentioned upthread, many of these people really have no business homeschooling, but the charter school monopoly money has been so enticing that they are leaving the public schools in droves.

[frogger]

Honestly, what changed was numbers and becoming mainstream. As long as it was a fringe group it was weirdos who really really valued education and were willing to sacrifice. When I started homeschooling I didn't know anyone else who homeschooled except a few children who lived in the bush where there was no school. I knew if it became mainstream things would change.

 

You may think that this is an attitude of homeschoolers but it isn't. It is the attitude of what my husband calls the FSC or Free Stuff Crowd except he uses a different word for stuff. You will find this crowd at many free events (which we attempt to avoid) or anywhere someone is giving anything out regardless of quality.  I'm frugal and enjoy free stuff like a walk in the woods or the use of the city park but not in a mass of people being inconsiderate of the humans around them so they can get there free stuff. The problem is homeschooling was taken note of and the media displayed it and now many of the FSC has joined the homeschooling ranks.

 

My daughters harp teacher warned me of an email she was sending out with new policies on payment (prepay only),  strict sick day policies, no refunds. She also said ignore it, it doesn't apply to me. Why because I have always been fastidious about paying in a timely matter, showing up on time (although over the years there have been a few late days from accidents on the highway and what not). The thing is she hates doing this and she is a really sweet lady who wants to give you a quality lesson and make sure you get what you need but people were scheduling then blowing off their lesson, forgetting to pay over and over, etc. I think my daughter is her only homeschooled student. 

She also told me about a friend of hers from back in the day who gave lessons and just told students to put their payment in a jar on the piano. Over the weeks her payments were less and less. No one ever paid her. Sometimes she would get $5 (this was only 15 years ago so.. ) most days she got nothing so of course she quit doing it but for awhile she had around 20 students. This isn't new and it's not just homeschoolers.

 

[homemommy83]

20 hours ago, Chelli said:

Oh yes! 

Around 100 responses with about 90% of them agreeing with the original poster and complaining about cost. About 10% of the responses are from those of us who teach homeschoolers in some capacity trying to point out that what she's asking for isn't fair.

 

I could never afford online classes, but I never would ever think someone should do the classes for free nor that those that can are elitest.  Honestly, if someone wants all online free programs most states offer that through charters and that is where I would direct them.

Brenda

[LMD]

7 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

 

Oh sure :). I had a general sense of how things must have been for the "pioneers" of home schooling. Some families did a fantastic job with few resources and a library card. And, yes, dual- enrollment and coops can get the job done well. But this in contrast to "looking for cheap, easy, while I go to work". Sigh. I can't help but feel that maybe there are some well-meaning parents who are desperate to get their kid out of public school and can't see any other way? Or are they really just terribly misinformed and going into it so blindly? Or being selfish and not giving true thought and consideration of what educating someone requires? 

Anyway, what I DID see when we were home schooling was a lot of arguing about what type of curriculum is best. Structure (insert name of latest and greatest complete package school-at-home curriculum) vs creativity (insert name of latest and greatest complete package literature-based mostly parent-guided curriculum) , etc. Schedules vs. having a loosely-planned day. I imagine that this is still going on, lol! ? 

I agree, and I consider it my duty to tell new homeschoolers the truth. I remember one particularly memorable park day when I quite bluntly told some new homeschoolers that Yes, they should expect to teach algebra! I followed it up with honest encouragement but I certainly didn't hold back.

There is a lot of infighting in home ed groups I find. ? too many strong, uncompromising and odd personalities clashing!