s/o: English Majors: If you've got one

[Susan Wise Bauer]

I'm interested in your take on this subject. What thinking skills/body of knowledge did this give you? Does it contribute to your work/calling now?

 

We've been discussing this at my house because I've been encouraging my literary seventeen-year-old NOT to do an English degree. He wants to be a writer; I was an English major because I wanted to be a writer, and was frustrated when I discovered that being an English major meant studying literary criticism. I thought I'd spend my college years reading and writing literature.

 

One of the characters in a favorite A. S. Byatt novel of mine says something like this: Have you noticed that people who write novels don't usually study literature? They study history or classics or something meaty and non-literary. Something about analysing literature tends to drive the creative impulse right out of your head. (If I could do it again I'd do my undergrad degree in history or theology or classics.)

 

Any thoughts? Would like to offer my son perspectives other than my own...

 

SWB

[Ria]

I was an English and biology double major. The only reason I added the English is because I had taken so many English classes anyway (I loved taking them) that it made sense to go ahead and double major.

 

A BA in English is certainly not a degree that prepares one for a specific job, and I don't think it would do much for an aspiring writer, either. It might be a good step on the way to a higher degree. Personally, I did read a lot of literature as opposed to literary criticism, but I never had the opportunity (save one short story freshman year) to write anything other than literary analyses.

 

About the only things I can say my English degree did for me:

 

1. I was able to teach my chidren to write well; I didn't need a writing program.

 

2. I taught writing to homeschoolers for several years.

 

3. I wrote a science curriculum; my years writing papers probably helped with this.

 

Ria

[SBP]

I majored in English and minored in journalism. I enjoyed my English classes the most, but when it came time to find gainful employment, it was the journalism experience (and particularly several college internships) that got me that first job...and the second, and the third, for that matter. Based on my own experiences, if one of my children winds up wanting to pursue an English degree, I will strongly urge them to either minor in something more "practical" or, perhaps, even to get an associate degree first from a technical college in some trade that interests them. There is nothing wrong with wanting to write the great American novel, but there's a lot to be said for eating and having a roof over your head while you do it.

 

When the "homeschooling" phase of my life is over, I've considered going back to school to pick up the classes I'd need to get certified to teach high school English. I've enjoyed the co-op classes I've taught and enjoy teaching grammar and writing to my own kids. (Once, in the middle of a Shurley lesson, my son shook his head and said, very gently, so as to spare my feelings, "Mom, I don't think this stuff is quite as exciting as you seem to think it is." :D) I hate education classes, but in hindsight, I realize this is probably what I should have done in the first place.

 

So that's my take on it, for what it's worth. I think my English classes prepared me more for being a teacher of English than anything else; there's not a thing wrong with that, but I'd want my children to approach the degree with that in mind.

 

Best of luck to your family as you approach these decisions :)

 

SBP

[Blessedfamily]

I have a friend who majored in English with History and works for the National Historic Trust. It's an absolutley fascinating job. They've been giving input into what to do with closed historic places like Fort Monroe in Hampton.

 

I'd love to do that.

[TeacherZee]

I am currently an english major and I plan to use it to teach. If I wanted to be a writer I wouldn't do an english major. I would probably study anthropology, history, and the classics. Learn about what has happened and why people do what they do.

 

All the litterary critisism and tearing books appart stifles my creativity. I would rather do something that taught me about people.

[Catherine]

I think English has served me well personally, because I love to read and am not intimidated by difficult books or classics, and this has definitely helped me as a home teacher.

 

Despite the fact that I feel utterly incompetent as a writing teacher, I do think I can write more clearly than your average MD. Unfortunately that is not so difficult to do.

 

As for your son, Susan, I'd have to agree with you. Couldn't he study literature as a minor? Or double major? I think getting lots of life experience is very important to a budding writer-travel, talking to a lot of people from many walks of life, learning "what's out there". Actually studying science is a wonderful way to get material for writing.

 

I have a good friend whose son is a sophomore in college at Fordham, and also a budding writer, and journalism major, I believe. As a freshman he started a blog (totally on his own time) on the independent music scene. This blog has taken off and he's now been mentioned in publications like Rolling Stone. It's a good illustration of how interest, not subjects studied in college, often lead one forward into a career. He's not a former homeschooler, but he has the spirit of one IMO!

[CalicoKat]

I'm interested in your take on this subject. What thinking skills/body of knowledge did this give you? Does it contribute to your work/calling now?

 

We've been discussing this at my house because I've been encouraging my literary seventeen-year-old NOT to do an English degree. He wants to be a writer; I was an English major because I wanted to be a writer, and was frustrated when I discovered that being an English major meant studying literary criticism. I thought I'd spend my college years reading and writing literature.

 

One of the characters in a favorite A. S. Byatt novel of mine says something like this: Have you noticed that people who write novels don't usually study literature? They study history or classics or something meaty and non-literary. Something about analysing literature tends to drive the creative impulse right out of your head. (If I could do it again I'd do my undergrad degree in history or theology or classics.)

 

Any thoughts? Would like to offer my son perspectives other than my own...

 

SWB

:iagree:

 

If I could do it again I'd study journalism and history. My English profs. had me convinced I was a dummy by the end of my college experience. It totally squeeze my creativity and desire to write dry. My best experience in college was working in the writing lab and the sole journalism class I took.

[Harriet Vane]

I double-majored in English and Rhetoric. This was a good combination for me.

 

As you know, English classes require the student to read and analyze literature. Recognizing good and bad literature, and being able to pinpoint what elements contribute to the strength of that work (or weakness) are excellent skills for an aspiring writer. I think it's valuable to study models of what to do or not to do.

 

On the other hand, an English major gives a student practice in only one style of writing: analytical papers. My Rhetoric major required a much wider variety of writing practice, with more specific feedback on writing mechanics from my professors.

 

I found that the combination of my two majors was ideal, and it was not difficult to do. Both majors required a certain amount of overlapping coursework anyway so I was able to complete both majors in four years. I worked in publishing for a number of years. On the whole, my majors were well suited to my work in publishing (editing, proofreading, writing ad copy, etc.--I'm sure you're familiar with it). However, one thing missing in my coursework was a detailed, advanced grammar class. I spent a lot of time teaching myself what I needed to know from The Chicago Manual of Style. I think the addition of a grammar course would have made a lot of sense for either of my majors.

 

I sometimes regret that I did not do an extra year's coursework to earn a double degree. However, the cost for doing that would have been staggering, as my scholarship expired at four years. By graduating with a double major rather than a double degree, my debt load was minimal and I was actually able to pay it off the first year after graduation. I would not need a double degree if I had stuck to my original plan of continuing as an editor, and I do not need a double degree as a homeschooling mother. I now think that, if I were to re-enter the workforce, I would rather get some sort of theological degree and teach Bible, so I would not need a double degree for that option either. However, unless your son plans to be a stay-at-home dad, a double degree in English and writing (or Rhetoric or whatever his college chooses to call it) may be a good option for a more long-term career than mine.

 

I wish you all the best as you sort through this together.

Edited November 14, 2008 by strider

[PariSarah]

They have to have something to write about, don't they? :001_smile:

 

I was an English major (actually, double major in English and Music), and found it an invaluable contribution to my further studies. I was more widely read, thought more clearly, and wrote better than most of my colleagues in my masters program, including those who had studied religion as undergrads. Good writing was one of the things that helped me get into a PhD program, and an English major certainly provides plenty of opportunity for that.

 

I wasn't going in to it thinking to be a writer, though. It's been helpful for me as a theologian with an interest in biblical studies (textual criticism and all that!), although I do wish I knew a little more history.

 

I wonder, though, whether your undergrad major matters that much any more. I had an acquaintance in college that went to med school after getting a music degree. She had taken more science courses than your average music major (which is to say, she had taken science courses), of course. An English major, like all other humanities degrees, teaches you how to learn. It also forces you to read. A lot. And write a lot. I'm sure you could get those three things in other humanities disciplines--history, philosophy, political theory--but I can't imagine why doing them in the English department should be any worse than doing them in the history department.

[cathmom]

My literary son is a freshman in college and is planning to double major in English and International Business and is writing for the student newpaper. Reading, writing, and something to put food on the table!

[Nicole M]

I was going to major in English and dropped it like a hot potato. I was disgusted that the writing we did for English classes was all about demonstrating how clever we were with words, how clever another author was with words, or how idiotic they were. Words were weapons. I hated that. (And the disgusting old man professor whose pretty, stupid female students mysteriously all earned A's did nothing to encourage me to stay in the English Department!) I wanted to write about something, anything! that was meaningful. I majored in Religious Studies and Music.

 

Most of us change our minds about our majors when we get to college. I would not overthink majors with a 17 year old.

[Aubrey]

I have an English degree because I wanted to be a writer!

 

I *like* literary analysis. Better than reading! I think that learning & honing the skill has improved my critical thinking & developed a natural ability to analyze people. This is an invaluable skill in any field, but esp. as a writer, I think.

 

I enjoy history, too, but the personality that is drawn to history seems to be very different from the one that's drawn to lit. Well, not very different--subtley different. But historians & lit people seem to make a big deal out of it. LOL I think their thought patterns just work differently & the one wouldn't necessarily flourish in the other field. Although there is a tendency for them to marry ea other. ;)

 

For someone wanting to be a writer, I'd suggest that he/she major in what he/she's interested in--it's what the person will most likely enjoy writing about.

 

I see literature like a hierarchy. The profs are high priests; the writers are the gods. You can work hard enough & long enough to become a prof; becoming a (really good) writer is a combination of work & faith & talent. You have to take a leap & sacrifice other opportunities w/ no guarantee of becoming anything.

 

For someone who really wants to be a writer, the surety of a prof--of being able to stay around, work w/, share the air of writers, literature, others who love it--is awfully tempting. In the end, though, (when it gets to the higher level degrees) I think one's time *is* better spent actually writing.

 

If that makes any sense! :001_huh:

[Aubrey]

I was an English and biology double major. The only reason I added the English is because I had taken so many English classes anyway (I loved taking them) that it made sense to go ahead and double major.

 

A BA in English is certainly not a degree that prepares one for a specific job, and I don't think it would do much for an aspiring writer, either. It might be a good step on the way to a higher degree. Personally, I did read a lot of literature as opposed to literary criticism, but I never had the opportunity (save one short story freshman year) to write anything other than literary analyses.

 

About the only things I can say my English degree did for me:

 

1. I was able to teach my chidren to write well; I didn't need a writing program.

 

2. I taught writing to homeschoolers for several years.

 

3. I wrote a science curriculum; my years writing papers probably helped with this.

 

Ria

 

I agree that it improves logical thinking skills, communication skills, writing, etc.

 

And, like Ria, I read much more literature than criticism. I hadn't realized that this was particular to my school, but now that she mentions it, I do remember a prof grumbling about that tendency in the upper levels, etc.

 

But ultimately, I think choosing a good school may make the choice between two liberal arts degrees... somewhat null. My school had a core like T. S. Eliot described when he was wishing for Harvard. Before reading that, I was disappointed that I couldn't go to an ivy league school. Afterward...well, the more I've learned, the more I've realized how lucky I was, what a good school I attended.

[mrsdash]

My dd16 is a natural, talented writer and we have all encouraged her to major in English. However, lately, I have had a change of heart and it's been due to what she has found out- exactly what you said. She just read this and applauded. She can always write and has said that she feels that majoring in English may stunt her creative freedom. She's taking another path but is sure she will always write because it's in her heart.

[cathmom]

Aren't there places where you can major in writing?

[Susan Wise Bauer]

But ultimately, I think choosing a good school may make the choice between two liberal arts degrees... somewhat null. My school had a core like T. S. Eliot described when he was wishing for Harvard. Before reading that, I was disappointed that I couldn't go to an ivy league school. Afterward...well, the more I've learned, the more I've realized how lucky I was, what a good school I attended.

 

Aubrey--what school was that?

 

SWB

[dangermom]

I was a comparative literature major, which means you study literature of two or more languages--usually English and something else (Spanish, Russian, etc.). I was English/Scandinavian. There was a good bit of very esoteric lit. criticism in there. Although I enjoyed it, it wasn't the most practical major I could have chosen, and I think a history major would also have been a good idea. In the end it didn't matter anyway, since I went to grad school for an MLIS; comp. lit. was a reasonably good preparation for that. (The other things you can do with such a degree are: become a comp. lit. grad student or work as a technical/document writer, that sort of thing.)

 

I think I would agree that an English degree isn't ideal for aspiring writers. However, I've never had a shred of literary ambition myself, so YMMV. History, rhetoric, something else that's still got lots of books and writing in it. (Is there such a thing as a creative writing degree? Run away!)

[Mama Lynx]

I think he should major in what he loves. Susan, although your experience wasn't what you wanted, do you think it hindered you? You still did write.

 

I majored in English because I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the literary criticism. My university had a separate track for writers. My course work taught me a broad appreciation of literature and how to write an essay about anything. Since I did not take the creative writing track I only learned how to write analytic and persuasive essays, nothing else; but that's all I wanted to write at that time.

[Aubrey]

Aubrey--what school was that?

 

SWB

 

University of Dallas. http://udallas.edu/

 

It's a small Catholic school here in the metroplex. The core includes Plato, Homer, Virgil, Shakespeare, Aristotle, etc. Four sem of lit, 3 of phil, at least 2 of hist, a semester in Rome, etc.

 

Unfortunately, I was a transfer student, so I missed some of it. Like ROME. :glare:

[Michelle in MO]

had this conversation. She's talented in that area, and loves reading literature and writing about it (only when she's not forced to write about something she's not interested in). However, I've had the exact same feelings: some of the best writers are those who have studied other fields and become experts in other fields. For example, Seabiscuit by Lauren Hillebrand was a great book and exceptionally well-written, but I think the author majored in both English and history, and writes for Equus, the magazine for horse lovers and equestrians. So, she brings with her a profound knowledge of something to write about that can't be imitated in any way, shape, or form. Jon Krakauer writes excellent books; I'm not sure what his major was, but he writes for the magazine Outside and climbed Mount Everest, and then he had something to write about, namely, the disastrous climbing expedition up Mount Everest in 1996. J.R.R. Tolkien taught Old Anglo Saxon and Old English Literature (i.e., his lectures on Beowulf) for years before he wrote The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. That profound knowledge again brings a depth to his writing that cannot be imitated.

 

I've encouraged her to major in English and something else: perhaps history or some other field of interest. I think it's good to round out an English major in this way, or perhaps major in another field altogether and minor in English.

 

However, I would agree with what others have said: majoring in English has not hindered your writing or career. A child may develop an intense interest in another field that may help to give breadth and depth to their writing. Also, Nicole's advice about not worrying too much about a major with a 17 or 18-year-old makes sense. They're still very young.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Michelle in MO

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[abbeyej]

We've been discussing this at my house because I've been encouraging my literary seventeen-year-old NOT to do an English degree.

 

My only thought here is that so many, many students enter school with one declared major and leave with another -- often with a couple more in between! I *believe* the statistic at my school was that most students identified themselves (not necessarily "declared") as four different majors before graduation. I know I entered as an English major, was briefly declared as a philosophy major, and ended with a double major in religion and theater (humanities). And toyed with the idea of a couple of other things in there too!

 

I do think, if it were my child, I'd encourage them to do more history (the research skills alone would be so very helpful for a writer) and perhaps combine it with a hard science (for a perspective and understanding of the physical world)or perhaps classics or a modern language (where upper level studies are often about the literature of another culture more than just analysis -- while complit seems to veer very heavily towards pure analysis)... I do think any number of majors *could* conceivably be helpful to a future writer.

 

But I agree that an English major may well not be exactly what he imagines / hopes it might be.

 

The best thing though is that if he chooses a school with a range of resources and strong departments, he can sample several majors and probably even take excellent upper level literature classes even if he *isn't* a major.

[nmoira]

Depending on the school, a double major or minor in linguistics can get you out of a fair amount of literary criticism.

[Jami]

I waffled between history and English for most of my college years and ended up with a minor in English. Like many others here, I loved the literature, but hated the agenda-laden criticism. I don't mind analysis that really seeks to look at a work in its historical context and respects the authorial intent, but the deconstruction/postmodern crud drove me batty.

 

So history it was. And I do think I learned more about how to research and write in my history courses. Though I never aspired to do creative writing.

[fractalgal]

I'm interested in your take on this subject. What thinking skills/body of knowledge did this give you? Does it contribute to your work/calling now?

 

We've been discussing this at my house because I've been encouraging my literary seventeen-year-old NOT to do an English degree. He wants to be a writer; I was an English major because I wanted to be a writer, and was frustrated when I discovered that being an English major meant studying literary criticism. I thought I'd spend my college years reading and writing literature.

 

One of the characters in a favorite A. S. Byatt novel of mine says something like this: Have you noticed that people who write novels don't usually study literature? They study history or classics or something meaty and non-literary. Something about analysing literature tends to drive the creative impulse right out of your head. (If I could do it again I'd do my undergrad degree in history or theology or classics.)

 

Any thoughts? Would like to offer my son perspectives other than my own...

 

SWB

 

How about a degree in philosophy?

[WTMCassandra]

I was an English Education major. The only actual teaching I have done is for my own children ; ). I fell into Technical Writing/Editing, which I did not know existed when I was in school. I have really enjoyed that career.

 

I don't regret the overall degree, but I did wish I had taken a couple of electives on the journalism side rather than taking all literature electives. I had to learn about publishing stuff on the job. So my degree MOSTLY prepared me for both careers.

 

I personally think an English degree is quite marketable, but perhaps not the best choice for a creative writer. However, I liked the factual papers, and I HATED the one creative writing class I had to take ; ).

 

I actually liked the literary criticism, and I am using it with my children. I feel competent teaching my children, but that is probably more from my technical writing/editing experience than my major. I have tutored quite a few high school students on the side, particularly in writing research papers.

 

If I had to do the whole thing over, I'd probably major in classics or theology myself. I didn't even know a classics major existed when I was in school: (. I didn't know a lot of things existed, huh?

Edited November 14, 2008 by WTMCassandra

[klmama]

My English major courses focused on literature and literary criticism. I was not as well-read as your son will be upon entering college, so the exposure to literature was good. However, I disliked the constant emphasis on interpreting what the authors intended, and I resented having to analyze books to the point that I no longer enjoyed them. I do believe my writing skills improved due to the immense amount of writing I had to do, but I didn't enjoy it much. I don't think a writer has to follow that route.

Edited November 15, 2008 by klmama
Typos, of course.

[KJB]

Writer's Workshop. The program allows a student to work on their craft while pursuing an undergrad degree. Admission is selective and I think you have to be invited to participate to be admitted as an undergrad.

 

Many prolific writers (Flannery O'Connor and Kurt Vonnegut to name a couple) have been involved with the Iowa Writer's Workshop. Here's a link to a description of the graduate program:

 

http://www.answers.com/topic/iowa-writers-workshop

 

Here's the workshop link:

 

http://www.uiowa.edu/~iww/admissions/undergrad_courses.htm

 

Also, here is info about the undergrad program:

 

http://www.uiowa.edu/admissions/undergrad/majors/at-iowa/WritingPrograms.htm

Edited November 14, 2008 by KJB

[Audrey]

I'm interested in your take on this subject. What thinking skills/body of knowledge did this give you? Does it contribute to your work/calling now?

 

We've been discussing this at my house because I've been encouraging my literary seventeen-year-old NOT to do an English degree. He wants to be a writer; I was an English major because I wanted to be a writer, and was frustrated when I discovered that being an English major meant studying literary criticism. I thought I'd spend my college years reading and writing literature.

 

One of the characters in a favorite A. S. Byatt novel of mine says something like this: Have you noticed that people who write novels don't usually study literature? They study history or classics or something meaty and non-literary. Something about analysing literature tends to drive the creative impulse right out of your head. (If I could do it again I'd do my undergrad degree in history or theology or classics.)

 

Any thoughts? Would like to offer my son perspectives other than my own...

 

SWB

 

 

My double BA in English and Linguistics turned me on to Drama as a literary form worth pursuing academically. I was already in professional theatre and knew it from that angle. It was one of those moments of synchronicity.

 

I then went on to an MA in Drama and a Ph.D in Theatre. I was a professor of Drama for 6 years. Then I left academia. Those degrees are completely and utterly useless to me in my life now.

 

If I knew what I know now and had it to do all over again, I would have worked harder towards my original intent, which was to pursue a degree in architecture. My failing in that was inadequate math skills. I could do the rest, but I simply couldn't cut the math.

 

If my son said he wanted to get a degree in English, I would try to steer him towards something else. I'd still like him to be able to pursue some study, so a minor in English wouldn't hurt, but not a major. Even if he thought he wanted to stay in academia, I'd try to steer him away from that, too. Although teaching is a joy, the politics of universities is atrocious. The demand to publish or perish makes perfectly sane people crazy -- even if they do publish. Some schools hang grades over your head no matter how honestly a student came by it or not.

 

Simply put, I don't believe it is a valuable pursuit as a major. Besides, you know what the most oft used phrase of an English major is, don't you?

 

"You want fries with that?"

Edited November 15, 2008 by Audrey

[Susan Wise Bauer]

Thank you all so much...this has been immensely helpful and I'm printing it out for my son to read.

[Carol in Cal.]

I have always loved to read, and I knew that I would always read and study books, on my own, for fun.

 

So I studied engineering in college, on the theory that I wanted to be well-rounded and that I would not learn science or technology on my own. And I really did like chemistry a lot, but I would not say that I had the pure affinity for it that I did for literature, and later for history.

 

Now I'm 50, and I have a feeling that someday I will do some serious writing. I will be able to incorporate chemistry, and tech firm career style and life in Silicon Valley, Vermont, Germany, and Japan into whatever I write. And that is fairly unique. I'll bet your son will be a more 'standing out' writer if he has life experiences that are non-standard.

 

Look at Barbara Kingsolver. She has a degree in Botany, I believe. And she is very interested in international politics and the politics of food, on which she has informed herself thoroughly. These all make her writing much more interesting and make it stand out from that of other authors. But she still has to be a good writer to get published. Although I often disagree with her, I still enjoy her writing a great deal.

[homeschoolin'mygirls]

Depending on the school, a double major or minor in linguistics can get you out of a fair amount of literary criticism.

 

Could you tell me more about this?

[Colleen in NS]

He wants to be a writer

 

Have you noticed that people who write novels don't usually study literature? They study history or classics or something meaty and non-literary. Something about analysing literature tends to drive the creative impulse right out of your head. (If I could do it again I'd do my undergrad degree in history or theology or classics.)

 

Is he interested in writing about history/theology/classics, too? If so, check this school out. It combines these studies with international missions oriented trips. It's a small community and it's been around for years. We know some of the faculty, we know some grads, and we know a current student.

 

http://www.ssu.ca/

 

I'd love to go to this school myself!

[Cindy in the NH Woods]

Maybe this will help. (Be sure to press "listen".) :)

 

 

http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/programs/2007/02/10/scripts/english.shtml

 

 

Cindy

[Celly B]

I graduated with a BA in English and a minor in Secondary Ed. The greatest benefit of an English major was the discipline of critical thinking and organizing my thoughts in all those papers and essays under time constraints. While the literary analysis exposed me to many great writers, which I feel is necessary to an aspiring writer, it does have the paradoxical effect of squelching creativity.

[JennifersLost]

This is a perfect subject for me today.

 

I was an English major. At the time I didn't plan to be a writer, which was good, because college did more to destroy my love and knack for writing than any other experience.

 

Honestly, if my child wanted to be a writer, I'd give them a year off to read and write. I'd buy them a stack of "how to write a novel" books and leave him to it. Then I'd help him find critique partners. Because that is the most important part; showing your work to others, listening to what they have to say, trying it again, showing it again, fixing it again....you get the picture.

 

Why is this the perfect question for me today? Because this wanna be writer just heard back from agent, asking to read more. I don't think my Ivy League education helped any; sitting my butt down in a chair and writing is what got me this far.

 

But it's hard to change your kids' minds once they've got an idea, isn't it? If nothing else, four years at school - no matter what the degree - gives you four years' experience of human nature. That's something, I guess.

[Chris in CA]

I'm actually pursuing MA in English right now. I have a BA in Psychology - big fat waste of time! I'm going for the MA to teach, and I hope a Ph.D. will follow. What I love about English is that it is a combination of philosophy, psychology, history, rhetoric, and literature. I love the books and don't mind the criticism, but I am not a writer, I have always played with writing, but never plan or planned on making a living that way.

[Ohio12]

I'm interested in your take on this subject. What thinking skills/body of knowledge did this give you? Does it contribute to your work/calling now?

 

We've been discussing this at my house because I've been encouraging my literary seventeen-year-old NOT to do an English degree. He wants to be a writer; I was an English major because I wanted to be a writer, and was frustrated when I discovered that being an English major meant studying literary criticism. I thought I'd spend my college years reading and writing literature.

 

One of the characters in a favorite A. S. Byatt novel of mine says something like this: Have you noticed that people who write novels don't usually study literature? They study history or classics or something meaty and non-literary. Something about analysing literature tends to drive the creative impulse right out of your head. (If I could do it again I'd do my undergrad degree in history or theology or classics.)

 

Any thoughts? Would like to offer my son perspectives other than my own...

 

SWB

 

I was an English major, but I wanted to read and teach, not write. I agree that English majors usually read and analyze more than they write, although maybe with a lot of research you could find a program heavier in writing. I do think though, that reading and analyzing literature makes for better writing. I remember Joan Didion saying that she reads pieces of famous literature over and over to "figure out how they work." I am curious, what he should major in if he wants to be a writer? One option might be grad school. Some of my classmates went on to get secondary degrees in creative writing, although those programs were very difficult to get into.

[muffinmom]

At the university I attended, an English major could choose whether to be a literature major or a writing major. If you chose writing, then you had to narrow it down to creative or technical. My technical writing major gave me a lot of discipline and skill. Two courses in particular really trained me to be able to get the thoughts out of my head and shape them--expository writing and persuasive writing. Those two were invaluable.

 

Having said all that, I have to agree that it probably would be more useful for him to major in something else and perhaps hone his skills with some well chosen writing courses.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I think that if your son wishes to be a writer it is more important that he choose a college/university that will teach and demand quality writing across the curriculum. If he wishes to be a journalist then that may require either specialized training/journalism degree or lots of time on the staff of the school paper.

 

When I was in college the English majors had no corner on the market when it came to quality writing, they just had different topics.

 

If one wishes to be a writer then no college major can change your desire. Just write...and keep writing. Hey-wait-look who I'm saying this too?!;)

[Cathy in SoCal]

I too wanted to write so majored in English and got a writing minor. I ended up in publishing as an editor in college editorial--health/science textbooks.

 

I must say that my major wasn't really in English (lit) but in Deconstructionism due to the postmodern ideas that had obviously influenced my professors (and now all of university thought). So I spent (wasted) my time deciding what I thought a text meant or said instead of learning any objective meaning that the author may have had in mind. My writing classes were good--the best being my grammar class in which we learned real rules and objective facts about language.

 

So, what I might add to the discussion is to research carefully the English departments of the schools in which you are interested -- the professors and their focus and backgrounds (who they studied under) to determine if there is at least one who is not a Stanley Fish fan. Of course, Susan, you are in the best position to know who these people might be.

 

Lastly, publishing was an incredible field to work in. We need many more Christian intellectuals who are serious about influencing our culture for good in this area. Especially college editorial. I have some really fun stories...... feel free to pm me if you want to hear more.

[Audrey]

I'm interested in your take on this subject. What thinking skills/body of knowledge did this give you? Does it contribute to your work/calling now?

 

We've been discussing this at my house because I've been encouraging my literary seventeen-year-old NOT to do an English degree. He wants to be a writer; I was an English major because I wanted to be a writer, and was frustrated when I discovered that being an English major meant studying literary criticism. I thought I'd spend my college years reading and writing literature.

 

One of the characters in a favorite A. S. Byatt novel of mine says something like this: Have you noticed that people who write novels don't usually study literature? They study history or classics or something meaty and non-literary. Something about analysing literature tends to drive the creative impulse right out of your head. (If I could do it again I'd do my undergrad degree in history or theology or classics.)

 

Any thoughts? Would like to offer my son perspectives other than my own...

 

SWB

 

 

I don't know if you have to be an English major to acquire this skill set, but I've found that impeccable writing skills and an ability to analyse and think critically have been keys to my success in all the endeavours I've undertaken since leaving academia.

 

Have you (or your son) considered the merits of a minor in English? It usually does not require the depth of literary criticism classes that a major would take, but still allows for a broad exposure to period literature and the process of critical analysis.

[Chris in VA]

Just a quick comment from a non-English major--

 

I think what you are describing is very similar to the approach Virginia Commonwealth U takes in the film dept--you have to double major, in film and in something not art related, so that you have something to say in your movies. You can do art history if you are really interested in the way films look (if you like cinematography, for example), but that 's the only major in the art dept that is acceptable.

 

I personally think there ought to be an English major with two choices--lit emphasis or writing emphasis. I know Oberlin College has a strong writing component in their English major, but I'm sure you have the inside scoop on secondary schools and majors!

[Sandy in Indy]

Ah, the joy of guiding one's children into life.... (that's me running screaming down the road!)

 

My dd will graduate this spring as an English major with minors in Editing and Publishing and French. She adores literary criticism and plans to continue her education with the goal of teaching literature at the college level. Honestly, I cringed when she selected English purely from a financial standpoint.

 

(My ds begins pre-pharmacy school this fall, and I'm far more comfortable with his choice.)

 

Whatever your son pursues, he will be successful. He has all the skills and the family support to make it so.

[BamaTanya]

I regret not taking a second major. I regret graduating in three years when my scholarship would have paid for four (and given me plenty of time for study of other courses). I had a minor in philosophy and a smattering of courses in math, theology, computer science, music, and art history . . . A real liberal arts education.

 

I said I didn't care to make a lot of money. I didn't realize the local paper was hiring English majors for $3.50 per hour. Back when the minimum wage was $3.35. No kidding.

 

I got a job teaching in a private school, fell in love, and headed back to study. I wound up starting a Master of Arts in Teaching degree 6 months later.

 

IMHO, if someone is interested in English or art history or philosophy, I would recommend he also select a career path major. A little insurance for the future. Something in business or health care or education, for instance.

 

Accounting would have been an appropriate second major for me. The business major greed was distasteful to me, but it would have been nice to have another option besides "Go directly to grad school. Do not collect $200."

[KristenS]

I see this is an old thread that's been brought back to the top, but I found it fascinating to read. :)

 

I was an elementary education major, with a double minor in English and Spanish. I love reading with a passion, but I found most of the English courses pretty tedious. And because I was in the Honors program, I tested out of the earliest courses, so I never did learn to write a paper my professors liked. :)

 

In spite of that, when it came time for the oral comprehensives, a kindly Shakespeare professor took pity on me and let me expound on children's lit. :)

 

At the time I felt the whole thing was an utter waste of time and money ... I had a degree and certification, but I didn't feel I'd really been taught all that much.

 

Now, though ... I'm not so sure. I've read a lot more since then (and a lot more of stuff I actually enjoy!), and I've tried my hand at writing, which had always been a dream, and it's kind of like the lessons the better professors were trying to teach have finally found a slot in my brain where they fit. I get some of what they were trying to teach. After all these years of 'self-educating' after college ... I feel like I actually merit the degree I earned way back then.

 

But then, I've always been like that ... coming at subjects from my own weird angle before I finally understand them.

 

My major and minors were appropriate for my career choices, which were being either a teacher or librarian (I ended up sticking with the library till I had kids), so it worked for me.

[ladydusk]

My sister has a double major in English and Religion. When she chooses to work (she lives a very simple, paid-for-farm-atop-a-hill-with-goats life) she's an editor ... and re-writes a lot of things, but her name is never on the book.

[Guest Betameculia]

I became an English major by accident. Somehow, after five years teaching English, History and Visual Arts, I decided to do a PhD in English Literature. It was madness, utter madness, but very satisfying. I wrote my thesis on Charlotte Bronte and, I must say the amount of literature I began to read, read, read ended up in me writing my own novel. Certainly, I had to get a few life experiences out of my system (it was very beneficial), but I also had to test a few literary theories of my own. It was MY way of sorting out my ideas and it drove my supervisor crazy.

 

Anyway, Susan, even though it was studying literature that resulted in my writing a book, I would have to second your opinion that literature study is NOT the way to go about becoming a writer.

 

In my case, my own novel drew on personal experiences gained more from life than from literature. Things like visiting old people, working in the slums in the Philippines, music and art, working in a shop, a restaurant, living with people with very different ideas and personalities to my own. Literature is about ideas and experiences and these are best learned from living. Oh, reading's important, don't get me wrong, but it cannot come close to rubbing shoulders with humanity in all its guises. I find it very interesting how my experiences of marriage and motherhood, which came after I wrote my book, have led me to completely revise my novel, simply because the intimate understanding gained from being wife and mother so radically changes one's understanding of others.

 

If you think of it, there are so many writers of great novels whose writing training comes from life not learning. In the cases of so many 19th century women novelists, their close involvement with church life gave them social mobility that furnished rich personal experience for many a book. Jane Austen; Charlotte, Emily and Anne Bronte, Elizabeth Gaskell and George Eliot all fall into this category. W. Somerset Maugham trained as a doctor. While J.R.R.Tolkien was an Oxford don, much of his experience in the trenches of World War I was the crucible which produced The Lord of the Rings many years later.

 

Literature can be read and studied anywhere, at any time, at one's own leisure. Life experience, particularly that derived from acts of service (nursing, medicine, teaching, missionary work, thoughtfulness towards others), is what equips head and heart to explore things that matter - which is what good literature is all about.

 

HTH,

 

Annette

[Desert Rat]

I have a degree in English and have never used it. I was planning on continuing my schooling and becoming a professor. Life interrupted. I would encourage your son to major in history or possibly creative writing if he's interested in becoming a writer. I haven't been able to get my degree to work for me. However, the education I received did prepare me for my current career, which I would never have foreseen back then.

[CactusPair]

One of my degrees is in English w/ a sub-con in "creative writing" (hate that term). I was miserable and regret going that route. So much of my energy and writing time was spent on literary analysis papers, usually revolving around the theme of the prof's narrow area of study. That degree sucked the life out of me and sometimes made me hate reading--and writing. The creative writing classes were some of the worst.

 

My other degree is in the History of Art, which fed my soul, aroused my curiosity, taught me about culture and historical context, and how to think, analyze, and imagine much more than the English degree did.

 

If I had to do it again, I'd keep the H of A, and get the 2nd degree in Russian Studies, religious studies, Asian studies, classics, or French.

 

I'd take a few Am & Eng. lit. classes, a few writing classes, and limit it to that.

 

Your student has to decide for himself when he gets there, though, and learn from his own mistakes and successes.:001_smile: