Dealing with the boundary-challenged

[MinivanMom]

I need help handling a boundary-challenged acquaintance. This is a younger woman at my church with small children - but a very loud, opinionated-type woman. It started with offers to "help" me with my youngest child when there was nothing amiss and moved onto wanting to show me the correct way to teach my homeschooled kids. Then it progressed to emails correcting me on what she thought I had done wrong at church or complimenting me on what she thought I had done right. I did speak to the head of our women's ministry about the situation after this woman used the ministry's official email for some of these communications. The head of our ministry apologized and said that she knows the woman offends a lot of people and that it's a problem. 

I don't think I have ever dealt with someone this aggressive before. I started out with the smile-and-decline, pass-the-bean dip approach. She just took that as a challenge and got more aggressive. I finally stopped replying to any of her communications, but that has just encouraged her to be more aggressive when she sees me in person. My breaking point was when she cornered me at church and made some disparaging remarks about a recent family tragedy. I just don't know what to do. I think she genuinely believes she is trying to "help" me or reach out to me or something.  And I already feel like the b*tchy one in the situation for avoiding her, even though I know that makes no sense. My desire to be "nice" and to be "kind" in this situation is very, very strong. Maybe too strong. It's probably preventing me from standing up for myself in a firm enough way.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what I can say when she barrels down on me? Or maybe just some general encouragement?

[bolt.]

Try smiling and saying, “I’m sorry but your comments aren’t helping me. I don’t like talking about parenting with you. I need to go now.”

[itsheresomewhere]

I am sorry but I don’t need advice right now.  But when I do, I know I can can come to you.

 

You may have to be a bit more blunt with her to get the point across.  Some just need the bluntness to get it and some don’t. 

[Katy]

If you really want to establish boundaries, you need to decide to push back as far as you need to - even being rude - in order to cut her off.

Frankly the next time she says anything inappropriate to you, instead of responding like a normal person say something like, "I don't know why you think I would be remotely interested in your advice. You are the rudest person I have ever met and I don't want anything to do with you or your opinion about anything. Leave me alone."  Unless you're in the South, in which case this would have to be worded a bit more carefully an be prefaced by a "Bless your heart!"

She'll likely hem or haw or get offended or try and gaslight you.  Just reiterate, "What is wrong with you?  I told you to leave me alone."  Then repeat "I've repeatedly asked you to leave me alone" louder and louder until she goes away.  If someone else comes over to de-escalate you simply say, "She has said a lot of impossibly rude and hurtful things, and no matter what I say to her she refuses to leave me alone."

 

[gardenmom5]

it sounds like a lot of people aren't happy with her - but everyone is too intimidated about "being nice" to send the message she needs to back off, so they tolerate it.

people this aggressive about telling other people how to live their lives - are often insecure within themselves - so they try to "fix other people" .. . i know, it doens't make sense, but nevertheless this has been my observation. if they're "fixing" someone else's life,  don't have to deal with their own.

I' would not answer any questions from her.  to any instructions about your kids they only answer I would give is "they're fine." rinse, repeat. and zero information about anything they are doing. "are they going to camp?" - they're fine.   think of it as "no comment".

I would also be blunt - (in a polite way) to *every* suggestion about how you should comport any part of your life - "what I am doing is working for me.  if anything changes and I want your suggestions - I know I can ask you." rinse - repeat

- then I'd turn it around and start asking her about her own children.  (or just move off since there is someone you really must see. ... )

I have to deal with a similar person - I have found whenever person gets obnoxious - turn it around and start asking about their job, their kids, their house, etc.   they are usually very happy to talk about themselves.

[bzymom]

Walk away, even if she has already begun speaking AT you.  I am all for good manners, but not if it allows someone with poor manners to make you uncomfortable.  Block her emails and , if needed, phone.  If she continues to email you from the ministry email, ignore her and forward directly to the head of ministry with a brief "As you can see, this continues.  Your help appreciated."

If she still persists to approach you, "Sorry, can't talk" may be more comfortable for you than what I would say!

Good luck!

 

[PrincessMommy]

I know this is very hard... we are taught as women and as Christians that being nice is sacrosanct.   You really need to be blunt and well...rude with this person.  You have our permission.  If you want to be safe, tell the head of the women's ministry what you plan is (in case this woman does try to gaslight you, etc.).  Obviously, she's aware that this person is a problem for the whole group anyway. 

hugs... I know it's hard for some of us to stand up for ourselves - esp. when we're blindsided. 

[HomeAgain]

You are called to love others as you love yourself.  That's a hard one for people to understand, that it's not *instead* of yourself, but *as* yourself - knowing that you are worthy and should treat yourself a certain way.  Allowing this woman to constantly attack you is not loving yourself, imo.  Loving you would be putting firm boundaries in place for what others can do to you.  It doesn't mean you have to be rude, but it does mean you have to be firm.  Say exactly what you mean: "I am not going to take unsolicited advice.  You need to stop."  And repeat as needed, walking away or ending the conversation each time.  You can be respectful and have dignity without digging or cutting back, kwim?  Just be quick and certain about your boundary on this matter.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I'm sorry, but out personalities are just incompatible.  Please stop talking to me/emailing me/xyz.  

(then, when she ignores this...)

I have asked you to stop.  If you cannot respect my boundaries, I will need to bring this up to the pastor.  

[Soror]

Oh, my, what a *&^. I agree w/ pp's, being nice hasn't worked, you need to be firm. Cut her off, leave while she is talking,  and/or flat out tell her you don't want her advice .

To look at it in a positive way no one is doing her any favors by not letting her know that she is rude, the church should have shut her down a long time ago.

[marbel]

I wouldn't say "I'm sorry" to her. That sounds as if you are apologizing (even if you don't mean "sorry" in that way) and may give her a feeling that you are asking forgiveness for some shortcoming.  I would have a hard time coming up with things to say, and would probably just fume inwardly, but I know I would never use the word "sorry" with her. 

If the women's ministry leader knows she is a problem to other people, she should have (with pastor or elder or whoever is appropriate) a "counseling" session with her.  I know that's not under your control, but if possible you might have another word with that person and suggest an "intervention" of sorts.  My husband has had to do that occasionally, as an elder, to tell someone that they need to knock off some offensive behavior.  It's not easy or fun, and can result in the person leaving the church. But if she is creating discomfort and disharmony... who knows if others may leave because of her.  

[Garga]

Is there a room you can slip into with her at church?  Is there a way to get her alone in that room?  

For me, I would handle it this way:  I’d tell her I’d like to talk to her for just a few minutes alone.  I’d go to the place with her alone.  I’d sit down or stand if there are no chairs, but sitting seems less confrontational.  I’d look at her genly and say gently and slowly, “Beatrice.  You want to help people and that’s clear.  But Beatrice, I do not like being given advice that I don’t ask for.  Please stop giving me advice. Let’s not talk about how to raise kids or how to do things at church or things like that.  It would be wonderful for us to talk about other things when we’re together.  Can we do that?”

See what she says.  At this point, who knows what she’ll say, so who knows what you can say next. But whatever she says, allow yourself to pause before you answer her to collect your thoughs.  Don’t bother giving reasons for why you don’t like advice because she probably won’t really understand.  Just say, “I just don’t like it,” and leave it at that.  Reiterate that you’d like to talk about other things together.  If she seems really upset, tell her again that you know she wants to help, but you don’t like getting advice.  

You can say things like, “I didn’t intend to make you angry/hurt/whatever,” if she has an emotional reaction.  Be gentle.  Try to keep things short.  At the end, give her a hug (unless that is out of the question) and say, “Let’s head on out now,” and make your way to the door of the room.  

Sure, she’s rude.  But you obviously are not going to be.  You were clear in your post that you want to be nice.  And that’s the appropriate thing to be, especially at this point when no one has confronted her and she has no idea how upset you all are.  No need to come on her like a ton of bricks.  This is the time to gently tell her what you want.  Gently.  Quietly.  Slowly.  With a kind smile.  

After that, it would depend on how she acts.  If she slips and gives you advice again, just quietly say, “This is one of those things I don’t want to talk about.” And change the subject.  If she ends up being just horrible about everything after you’ve talked...well, we’d have to figure out how to handle that as it happens. Probably ask leadership to help at that point.

[G5052]

You can try the gentle one-on-one approach, but realize that some people like this will see this as a challenge.

I have a close relative in my life who doesn't respect boundaries and has a "my way or the highway" attitude. For me, minimizing contact is the only way to go. As a counsellor once said to me in regard to them, "Don't negotiate with terrorists." 

[gardenmom5]

28 minutes ago, G5052 said:

You can try the gentle one-on-one approach, but realize that some people like this will see this as a challenge.

I have a close relative in my life who doesn't respect boundaries and has a "my way or the highway" attitude. For me, minimizing contact is the only way to go. As a counsellor once said to me in regard to them, "Don't negotiate with terrorists." 

this.

the people I have to deal with like this (there are three on both sides of my family),  if confronted - no matter how nice or gentle you are (each and every one) will turn it around and gaslight.   you can try and see if they're teachable, but often they are not.    one (the one to which i was "nicest") took it as an invitation to attack me and tell me everything wrong with me and how __ hated me.   sigh. and big huge eye roll. 

don't try and teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

[Bluegoat]

I think it might be a good idea to talk again to the women in charge.  I think it sounds like this woman is being harassing.  I don't mean that to say she is intending to be that way, but she is having that effect.

I think Garga's suggestion above is an option, but personally I tend to think that someone higher in the pecking order might be able to have that same conversation more effectively.  I think it may be the case that for some reason, this woman is not able to see what she needs to do to moderate her behaviour appropriately.

[Liz CA]

23 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

I think it might be a good idea to talk again to the women in charge.  I think it sounds like this woman is being harassing.  I don't mean that to say she is intending to be that way, but she is having that effect.

I think Garga's suggestion above is an option, but personally I tend to think that someone higher in the pecking order might be able to have that same conversation more effectively.  I think it may be the case that for some reason, this woman is not able to see what she needs to do to moderate her behaviour appropriately.

 

It may be good to do as Garga suggested and take another woman in leadership into the room as well just to be cautious. One never knows what someone who may be very immature and angry would accuse Minivan of having said with no witnesses present.

[Doodlebug]

My forties have taught me... situations like this, that aren’t going away, cost me dearly.  They cost me peace, joy in the spaces I would usually feel free in, and anger.

You need to say something... perhaps the next email or convo will give you your opening... but you may feel better choosing when and where you say something.  “Earline, the emails and unsolicted advice have to stop.”  Let it hang in the air.  Be willing to be uncomfortable for 5 minutes... it will save you and exponential amount of emotional energy in the future!

[Ellie]

13 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

It may be good to do as Garga suggested and take another woman in leadership into the room as well just to be cautious. One never knows what someone who may be very immature and angry would accuse Minivan of having said with no witnesses present.

ITA.

It is possible to be direct and refuse to be a doormat without being rude at the same time. That's what Garga's suggestions are. ? And we are given instructions in Scripture on how to handle things like this: go to the person privately; if she does not receive you (iow, give up that behavior), then take two or three with you. It would not be ok to go to the pastor (or other in authority) if you have not spoken to her first. And there should not be a time when she is called into someone's office and told that some people, who shall remain nameless, have complained about her. She should always know whom she offended.

[Garga]

True.  What everyone said is true if she’s a person who just Will Not Back Down.  I was going under the assumption that the woman was clueless.  But if it’s more sinister than that, then a gentle conversation won’t work.  

If she’s not sinister and really is clueless and trying to help, you don’t want to drop a bomb on her.  I was going on the words of the OP saying that she thinks the woman genuinely wants to help.  But maybe not.  Maybe Beatrice *thinks* she wants to help, but Beatrice is lying to herself and has Issues.

Perhaps instead of being alone with her and confronting her about it head on, hoping to stop it once and for all, like I’d suggested, how have you talked to her about it in the past?  

Can you wait until the next time she gives advice and right there wherever you are and whoever is around, hold up a hand and say, “Beatrice.  I don’t like when people give me advice.  Let’s change the subject.”  Instead of being subtle about passing the bean dip or changing the subject, tell her flat out that you don’t want to talk about X and tell her flat out that you are changing the subject.  She might not be able to pick up subtle, but she won’t be able to miss “I don’t want advice.  Let’s change the subject.”  Be prepared for her to be huffy because it’ll be embarrassing to her, or she’ll feel belittled and people tend to go on the attack in the moment when they feel belittled, but after some huffing and mean words, she might decide to avoid you, or actually grant your request in the future.  

This is tricky, because we don’t know if the woman is clueless or a wolf looking for sheep to bully.  And it sounds like the OP isn’t a person who is comfortable being aggressive toward her.

[gardenmom5]

52 minutes ago, Ellie said:

ITA.

It is possible to be direct and refuse to be a doormat without being rude at the same time. That's what Garga's suggestions are. ? And we are given instructions in Scripture on how to handle things like this: go to the person privately; if she does not receive you (iow, give up that behavior), then take two or three with you. It would not be ok to go to the pastor (or other in authority) if you have not spoken to her first. And there should not be a time when she is called into someone's office and told that some people, who shall remain nameless, have complained about her. She should always know whom she offended.

the concern was this woman would go on about her own version of events - that had no basis in reality.   it happens, and from people who think they're sane.

I wouldn't meet this woman alone.

 

51 minutes ago, Garga said:

True.  What everyone said is true if she’s a person who just Will Not Back Down.  I was going under the assumption that the woman was clueless.  But if it’s more sinister than that, then a gentle conversation won’t work.  

If she’s not sinister and really is clueless and trying to help, you don’t want to drop a bomb on her.  I was going on the words of the OP saying that she thinks the woman genuinely wants to help.  But maybe not.  Maybe Beatrice *thinks* she wants to help, but Beatrice is lying to herself and has Issues.

Perhaps instead of being alone with her and confronting her about it head on, hoping to stop it once and for all, like I’d suggested, how have you talked to her about it in the past?  

Can you wait until the next time she gives advice and right there wherever you are and whoever is around, hold up a hand and say, “Beatrice.  I don’t like when people give me advice.  Let’s change the subject.”  Instead of being subtle about passing the bean dip or changing the subject, tell her flat out that you don’t want to talk about X and tell her flat out that you are changing the subject.  She might not be able to pick up subtle, but she won’t be able to miss “I don’t want advice.  Let’s change the subject.”  Be prepared for her to be huffy because it’ll be embarrassing to her, or she’ll feel belittled and people tend to go on the attack in the moment when they feel belittled, but after some huffing and mean words, she might decide to avoid you, or actually grant your request in the future.  

This is tricky, because we don’t know if the woman is clueless or a wolf looking for sheep to bully.  And it sounds like the OP isn’t a person who is comfortable being aggressive toward her.

even the utterly clueless - don't necessarily back down when hit over the head with the figurative railroad tie. some don't even notice.

I agree she doens't need to be rude - just blunt/direct.  re: your "i don't want advice" - it's blunt, but not rude.

her response will tell more about why she does this.

[Kanin]

Oh wow! I can't imagine anyone I know doing anything remotely like that. If it were me, I'd be extremely uncomfortable, but even so, would say something like what others have suggested. Would saying something simple and clear over email be easier? (Or is that too wussy?)

[Farrar]

The blunter, the better. No sorries, no walking away or ignoring. No cushioning language like, "I know you're trying help." I wouldn't even say please at this point. You're past all that.

I do not want to hear your advice or your advice or opinion. We are not friends. You are not ministering to me or mentoring me. You need to respect my boundaries.

I agree that I'd do it in front of others or in a public place in the church next time she corners you.

[Tanaqui]

"$NAME, nobody wants unsolicited opinions or advice. If somebody doesn't ask for your help, then that means they want you to leave them alone."

Say this every time she starts up. If she keeps doing it, reply with "I don't want or need your advice. Drop it." and then leave - without a good-bye - if she STILL keeps going on. (If she follows you, this requires you to raise your voice and say, loudly, "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? WHY ARE YOU FOLLOWING ME? I DO NOT WANT TO TALK TO YOU. GO AWAY." Make that scene! Put her in the center of it!)

Do not vary your responses!

If she emails you from an official email, forward it to her church supervisor, tell them you don't want any contact like this anymore, and then don't reply to her. If she emails you from a personal email, delete without opening.

If she gives you "compliments" in person, look at her blankly for a few seconds, then turn or walk away to talk to somebody else. (If you want to be more direct, then you'd say something like "I'm not interested in your opinion" before the walking away part, but if this is in public then you run the risk of making her look put-upon.)

Quote

My breaking point was when she cornered me at church and made some disparaging remarks about a recent family tragedy.

 

Gross. So gross. If she does this to you again, or if you catch her doing it to somebody else, the appropriate response is something along the lines of "$NAME, how can you say something like that? That's really inappropriate and rude! You need to apologize."

[HS Mom in NC]

Aggressive people who over step boundaries don't read cues, take hints, or respect soft answers.  She needs direct, clear, firm boundaries.  If she tried that with me I would say, "I didn't ask for your advice because I don't want your advice, so stop giving me advice." Then I would turn my back on her and walk calmly away. This person is very likely to have some sort of underlying mental illness.

Your church leadership is aware and has done nothing as far as I know.  They need to man up and handle it as a church discipline issue. This is no interpersonal disagreement, this is a woman oppressing church members and using church resources to do it.  We had a woman like that at a church I went to and they had to fire her as a Sunday School teacher and told her if she continued to hassle members they would revoke her membership and insist she leave.  If I were you I'd go all the way up the church leadership chain, explain this has been an ongoing problem, and say, "How exactly will you handle this church discipline problem?" Then silently wait for an answer maintaining eye contact the whole time, even if it's many minutes of awkward silence.  And no, when church leadership deals with her they should name every single person who has had an issue with her to demonstrate the scope of the problem.

[EMS83]

15 hours ago, Katy said:

If you really want to establish boundaries, you need to decide to push back as far as you need to - even being rude - in order to cut her off.

Frankly the next time she says anything inappropriate to you, instead of responding like a normal person say something like, "I don't know why you think I would be remotely interested in your advice. You are the rudest person I have ever met and I don't want anything to do with you or your opinion about anything. Leave me alone."  Unless you're in the South, in which case this would have to be worded a bit more carefully an be prefaced by a "Bless your heart!"

She'll likely hem or haw or get offended or try and gaslight you.  Just reiterate, "What is wrong with you?  I told you to leave me alone."  Then repeat "I've repeatedly asked you to leave me alone" louder and louder until she goes away.  If someone else comes over to de-escalate you simply say, "She has said a lot of impossibly rude and hurtful things, and no matter what I say to her she refuses to leave me alone."

 

 

Side splittingly true.  ?  Your original wording would scar people around here for life.

[Katy]

27 minutes ago, CES2005 said:

 

Side splittingly true.  ?  Your original wording would scar people around here for life.

 

Well if OP is in the South, someone probably would have already blessed this behavior right out of her.  They might be a bit more polite about boundary enforcing, but I've yet to meet a Southern Lady who has a pushover about any sort of rude behavior.  Especially in church.

 

ETA: Which is not to say that if there's a transplant that needs some more careful verbage we couldn't think of something.

[MinivanMom]

Thank you all so much for your feedback. I know that she was corrected for using the women's ministry email, and that hasn't happened again. Now she only emails me from her personal email. I did stand up to her very forcefully when she made disparaging remarks about our family tragedy. I got a barrage of very condescending compliments afterward which just felt very icky and manipulative. A lot of the back-and-forth has felt very gas-lighty. She is more the aggressive, will-not-back down type than she is the clueless type. 

I really appreciate these suggestions for what to say, because I'm genuinely at the point where I just need to be blunt. And it helps to have something prepared.

[MinivanMom]

3 hours ago, Doodlebug said:

My forties have taught me... situations like this, that aren’t going away, cost me dearly.  They cost me peace, joy in the spaces I would usually feel free in, and anger.

You need to say something... perhaps the next email or convo will give you your opening... but you may feel better choosing when and where you say something.  “Earline, the emails and unsolicted advice have to stop.”  Let it hang in the air.  Be willing to be uncomfortable for 5 minutes... it will save you and exponential amount of emotional energy in the future!

 

Yes! This is the point I'm at. I'm just too old and I have too much real stuff in my life to waste any more time on someone acting like this.

I spoke to her directly when she made the remarks about our family tragedy. And after the email, I went to the head of the women's ministry who also talked to her. I think this is just the point at which I need to give myself permission to respond with, "What is wrong with you?" and then get up and physically move away from her. Every single time.

[Garga]

16 minutes ago, MinivanMom said:

Thank you all so much for your feedback. I know that she was corrected for using the women's ministry email, and that hasn't happened again. Now she only emails me from her personal email. I did stand up to her very forcefully when she made disparaging remarks about our family tragedy. I got a barrage of very condescending compliments afterward which just felt very icky and manipulative. A lot of the back-and-forth has felt very gas-lighty. She is more the aggressive, will-not-back down type than she is the clueless type. 

I really appreciate these suggestions for what to say, because I'm genuinely at the point where I just need to be blunt. And it helps to have something prepared.

 

8 minutes ago, MinivanMom said:

 

Yes! This is the point I'm at. I'm just too old and I have too much real stuff in my life to waste any more time on someone acting like this.

I spoke to her directly when she made the remarks about our family tragedy. And after the email, I went to the head of the women's ministry who also talked to her. I think this is just the point at which I need to give myself permission to respond with, "What is wrong with you?" and then get up and physically move away from her. Every single time.

 

 

 

Ah. This changes things for me.  I didn’t realize you’d already stood up to her.  That changes everything.  

Yes, it’s ok to be blunt and forceful and walk away.  I like what Homeschool mom in AZ said.  Ignore everything I said about talking to her quietly and gently.  You’ve already gone past that point.  

[Tanaqui]

Quote

I know that she was corrected for using the women's ministry email, and that hasn't happened again. Now she only emails me from her personal email.

 

It may be worth it to send exactly ONE reply to the next email she sends, a reply that will read something like this: "When I asked them to tell you to stop sending emails to me from the women's ministry email, I didn't mean that I wanted you to contact me through your personal email. I want you to stop emailing me. I am not interested in your advice or opinions. Not through email, not in person. Don't email me again."

And then just block her email immediately.

The sole advantage of doing it this way is to make sure you've covered that base.

[MinivanMom]

1 hour ago, Tanaqui said:

 

It may be worth it to send exactly ONE reply to the next email she sends, a reply that will read something like this: "When I asked them to tell you to stop sending emails to me from the women's ministry email, I didn't mean that I wanted you to contact me through your personal email. I want you to stop emailing me. I am not interested in your advice or opinions. Not through email, not in person. Don't email me again."

And then just block her email immediately.

The sole advantage of doing it this way is to make sure you've covered that base.

 

This is probably a good idea. Just to make it absolutely clear.

[Knock]

Is your church the kind that encourages more traditional roles in marriage? That's a weird question, sorry, but there's a pushy woman I had to deal with a few years ago and what finally got her to stop was when my husband respectfully but firmly told her to leave me alone. I tried being nice. I tried being direct. I even tried rude and STFU, but she blew that off as me having a bad day and continued to harass me. Talk about clueless. I have never had ANYONE fight my battles for me. I am stubborn and strong and okay, a little emotionally damaged to the point of needing to be ferociously independent to a fault.

But at the suggestion of an IRL friend who also knew this woman, I had my husband speak to her on my behalf. We had a plan and when he saw her corner me at fellowship, he came over and spoke to her with me right there. And she didn't push back at him the way she did me. And the little bit she tried, he handled way more calmly than I would have. But he was firm. And she got the point. A few times in the few years since she's started back on old habits and I just remind her  that my husband asked me to not speak to her about family or personal matters. He kids about being my knight in shining armor. I still hate that I needed one LOL but whatever. Life is too short for stress like these people. I hope you find a way to untangle yourself from this woman's web. 

[Ellie]

9 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

the concern was this woman would go on about her own version of events - that had no basis in reality.   it happens, and from people who think they're sane.

I wouldn't meet this woman alone.

Now we know that the OP has talked with her already, so at this point, it definitely would be with others. In fact, having read more of the story, I think it's time for church leadership to do something. :-(

What a crummy situation. :-(

[Ellie]

5 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

 

It may be worth it to send exactly ONE reply to the next email she sends, a reply that will read something like this: "When I asked them to tell you to stop sending emails to me from the women's ministry email, I didn't mean that I wanted you to contact me through your personal email. I want you to stop emailing me. I am not interested in your advice or opinions. Not through email, not in person. Don't email me again."

And then just block her email immediately.

The sole advantage of doing it this way is to make sure you've covered that base.

And she could cc several other people, such as the women's ministries leader and the pastor.

[PrincessMommy]

MinivanMom - curious how church went today.  Did you have any encounters with this other mom?

[nixpix5]

I think I would say "you may or may not be intending to do this but your offer or help and the aggressive way you are going about it is insulting, frustrating and annoying. I have not asked for your help and do not feel I need the help you are offering. I have tried to send signals and avoid you but since you are not getting it I feel I must now offer my own level of social help to you. You are being pushy and offputting. I need you to stop or I will call in our pastor as a neutral third party. My intent is not to hurt your feelings but to be clear that I am feeling pressured by you." Harsh but often with people like this it takes that level of confrontation. It isn't comfortable but it will probably be necessary.