I need a verbal response for this (disability related)

[Daria]

This summer I spent a lot of time teaching community orientation and travel skills to a wonderful group of teenagers with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

 

One thing that happens over and over again when we are in public is that people speak to me, even if one of my students asks a question.  This is, not surprisingly, more common when the individual I'm supporting has a visible disability such as Down syndrome or using a wheelchair, than if their disability is invisible.

 

I find this behavior incredibly rude.  With students who are more independent, who might be quite far away from me, I've had people go so far as to turn their body away from someone while calling the answer across the room towards me.  Turning your back on someone who is talking to you is incredibly disrespectful.

 

I should note, that most of the people this happens with are people acting in a professional capacity, where answering questions from community members is actually part of their job.  For example, we recently had an incident when one of my students approached the information desk at the library to ask if there was a restroom, and the librarian turned away and called the directions to me.  My student was understandably embarrassed to have the entire library know about her bathroom needs.  

I would like to come up with a verbal response that makes it clear that people need to address the person talking to them.  Any suggestions?

 

[Guest]

Said with a smile -

 

Don't look at me! They're the one with the question.

[Jean in Newcastle]

"I'm not your customer.  Please address your answers to them." 

[EmilyGF]

Unfortunately, even people in the (don't know what it is called) disability community do this too. When my son was delayed in speech, he was "diagnosed" by a therapist in front of him. The poor kid was smart enough to understand and mimic her (entirely wrong) diagnosis. She got fired after two appointments.

 

I like Arctic Mama's idea.

 

Emily

 

 

[Beaniemom]

Said with a smile -

 

Don't look at me! They're the one with the question.

I've used this before. It's amazingly effective.

[zoobie]

I would have addressed the unnecessary embarrassment with the librarian. You're the student's advocate.

 

Otherwise, what Arctic Mama and Jean said :)

Edited August 3, 2017 by zoobie

[KungFuPanda]

My method is to smile at the person, look at my son and ask "Did you get all that?" then go back to whatever I was doing. DS will say "yep," and will look at them and say thank you. Most people realize that I was completely unnecessary in that exchange.

[MommyLiberty5013]

I agree with you that it is rude. I do not think it is intentional, though. I can think of a few instances I was engaged by a mentally disabled person, and though I faced them and spoke to them, I looked up or looked at their care giver/guardian/parent, to be sure I was on track with my response to them. I think most people want to be sure they are doing the right thing and not getting the person with the disability into trouble, giving bad advice, or going against a caregiver's wishes.

 

I suppose that since many people with mental disabilities have developmental maturity that is often far less than their actual biological age, people in public who interact with them do not know if they are dealing with a "16 year old" or an "8 year old" and want to air on a side of caution. Sadly, it comes across as rude...it is mostly because they just are not as familiar with all of it as you are.

 

If anything, I would be winsome in my response...they are trying to navigate a potentially new situation. Something like, "Would you tell Susie? She is very independent." It politely informs the person to whom they need to speak AND it makes Susie feel more mature! Win/win.

[NorthwestMom]

I also work with people with disabilities, and know what behavior you are talking about.

 

When a client asks a third party a question, I look directly at the client and not the third party. It serves as a visual cue for the third party to note that I am not their conversation partner, and for them to look at the original speaker while answering.

 

Hope that helps!

[SKL]

"You can tell [student's name]" with a nod in the student's direction.

 

If the person is too dense to take a hint, maybe go stand behind the person who asked the question to make the point that that is where the speaker should be facing.

 

Sounds like some "neurotypical" people in the community could use some life skills training.  :P

 

Another thought - consider sending a polite, helpful email afterwards to the organization, asking them to gently instruct their employees to directly address people with special needs.

[Lecka]

I would look at my son and wait. Often people repeat to him. Then I smile at the person.

 

Edit: he is younger and I tend to be close to him.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Lecka

[SKL]

 

Ironically, I had the opposite problem with DD6 at the ER the other night.  She broke her arm and the most severe symptom of her autism is her language delay.  She could say that her arm hurt, and she could show us where, but she could not tell the nurse what she did or when, and couldn't articulate how bad it hurt other than "a lot" or "a little" or by yelping and crying when they touched the wrong spot.  But every time I tried to provide an answer the nurse would basically ignore me, even after I explained that she has autism and doesn't understand the question. 

 

They do that to try to find out if the child was abused.

 

They did that to me when I was 2yo and my 5yo brother pushed me off the dresser.  My mom says I lied to keep him out of trouble.  :P

 

[SebastianCat]

Ironically, I had the opposite problem with DD6 at the ER the other night.  She broke her arm and the most severe symptom of her autism is her language delay.  She could say that her arm hurt, and she could show us where, but she could not tell the nurse what she did or when, and couldn't articulate how bad it hurt other than "a lot" or "a little" or by yelping and crying when they touched the wrong spot.  But every time I tried to provide an answer the nurse would basically ignore me, even after I explained that she has autism and doesn't understand the question. 

 

 

They do that to try to find out if the child was abused.

 

They did that to me when I was 2yo and my 5yo brother pushed me off the dresser.  My mom says I lied to keep him out of trouble.  :p

 

 

We've had the same experience with broken bones and stitches.   Multiple people (more than one nurse, the doctor, sometimes an intern) will ask, "So tell me what happened?" and ask for the same story to be repeated multiple times.   I always figured they were trying to make sure the story didn't change as a way to screen for abuse.   When my DD busted her forehead and needed stitches as a 1-year-old, they asked me, but ever since then, our broken bones have happened when my kids have been old enough to answer the question for themselves.

[Tanaqui]

You're right - this is very rude. I would definitely tell them to give their answer to the person they're speaking to and, if this is from somebody in their professional capacity, follow up with a letter to their place of employment asking them to educate their staff on how to communicate with people with disabilities.

 

If somebody is capable of going up to the librarian (or whatever) and asking for help, and their aide (or assistant or teacher or guardian or whatever) doesn't feel the need to tag along, then it is reasonable to assume they are capable of understanding the answer on their own, or else seeking further assistance if they don't.

[Daria]

I agree with you that it is rude. I do not think it is intentional, though. I can think of a few instances I was engaged by a mentally disabled person, and though I faced them and spoke to them, I looked up or looked at their care giver/guardian/parent, to be sure I was on track with my response to them. I think most people want to be sure they are doing the right thing and not getting the person with the disability into trouble, giving bad advice, or going against a caregiver's wishes.

 

I suppose that since many people with mental disabilities have developmental maturity that is often far less than their actual biological age, people in public who interact with them do not know if they are dealing with a "16 year old" or an "8 year old" and want to air on a side of caution. Sadly, it comes across as rude...it is mostly because they just are not as familiar with all of it as you are.

 

If anything, I would be winsome in my response...they are trying to navigate a potentially new situation. Something like, "Would you tell Susie? She is very independent." It politely informs the person to whom they need to speak AND it makes Susie feel more mature! Win/win.

 

Checking in briefly is fine if you then turn back to the person.  That's, especially true if I'm right there, as I might be with a younger teen, or one with higher support needs.  When people turn away and don't turn back, I can usually redirect it by looking towards the person I'm supporting.  I would say that if I'm right there, you can assume that if I didn't want the person to give bathroom directions, I would already have intervened.  

 

In the cases where it's most frustrating, though, I am working very hard to give the teenager in question as much space as possible.  In the situation with the bathroom, I was 20 feet away, looking at some brochures, or at least pretending to while trying to discretely eavesdrop.  

 

I will add that if someone was born 16 years ago,  then they are a 16 year old.  People with IDD are not 8 year olds in 16 year old bodies.  They are 16 year olds who sometimes have difficulty with specific tasks, and might need support.  

[Daria]

I also work with people with disabilities, and know what behavior you are talking about.

 

When a client asks a third party a question, I look directly at the client and not the third party. It serves as a visual cue for the third party to note that I am not their conversation partner, and for them to look at the original speaker while answering.

 

Hope that helps!

 

 

This works reasonably well when I'm close.  It works less well from across the room, which is why I was asking.  I have had some luck with pulling out my cellphone, which seems to be the universal symbol for "I'm not interested in what you're saying".  

[wendyroo]

I had an opposite issue the other day.  

 

I was at the Goodwill with all of my kids.  There was a group of 8 intellectually and developmentally disabled young men (18-25ish?) there accompanied by two women in scrubs and badges who were clearly "in charge".  While the women were looking through clothes racks with some of the young men, two of the other young men came over and started asking me questions about Audrey who was in the cart seat.

 

I responded to them, but pretty soon it became very socially awkward and I wasn't exactly sure how to move on and finish my shopping without being rude and dismissive.  Then, however, the young men tried to touch Audrey.  First they tried to grab her hands, but when she yanked them away, then they started touching her shirt and talking about the picture on it.  I told them that she was just a baby and that it was making her nervous to have strangers touch her and that they needed to stop.  When that didn't work, then I loudly addressed the women in charge (who were in the next aisle over) and said, "Excuse me!!  I need them to stop touching the baby."  I quickly ushered the children away and directly out of the store without finishing our shopping.

 

I found the whole thing very unsettling, and unfortunately it made me regret ever responding to their questions in the first place.

 

Wendy

[MommyLiberty5013]

Checking in briefly is fine if you then turn back to the person.  That's, especially true if I'm right there, as I might be with a younger teen, or one with higher support needs.  When people turn away and don't turn back, I can usually redirect it by looking towards the person I'm supporting.  I would say that if I'm right there, you can assume that if I didn't want the person to give bathroom directions, I would already have intervened.  

 

In the cases where it's most frustrating, though, I am working very hard to give the teenager in question as much space as possible.  In the situation with the bathroom, I was 20 feet away, looking at some brochures, or at least pretending to while trying to discretely eavesdrop.  

 

I will add that if someone was born 16 years ago,  then they are a 16 year old.  People with IDD are not 8 year olds in 16 year old bodies.  They are 16 year olds who sometimes have difficulty with specific tasks, and might need support.  

I am quite sure not everyone else in the world understands this as well as you do. So I think you are faced with a choice:

 

1. Be upset, frustrated, and/or offended and let those emotions inform your actions and words as a crusader. Or,

2. Be an educational advocate.

I do not think most people in public realize the trouble exists at all (I am not giving them a pass, just saying it is a blind spot for many). It is not meanness or stupidity. It is a form of ignorance. People want to be doing the right things, in general, for people with disabilities, but maybe some of them just need more information or constructive "how-to."

 

You are with these individuals a lot, so you are accustomed to their needs and personalities as well as their abilities, strengths and weaknesses. The one few minute interaction a public worker has with the people in your care is not enough for them to "get" all that you "get." It isn't enough time spent for them to "see" what you "see" or to know what the best and proper ways are to interact.

 

For lack of a better phrase: they are out of their comfort zone and they want to do the right thing, so maybe they are hyper aware they are assisting and/or talking with a person with disabilities and that hyper awareness comes out as rudeness, ironically.

 

I think you will do a lot to help out by being a winsome advocate. Write a letter as a PP suggested. I think your goal should be to educate and advocate, not make people ashamed or feel rebuked. You can still get your point across and make/keep allies in the process. Teach and instruct. And you can be a positive role model for the people in your care too demonstrating to them how to behave and how to speak when they are faced with an uninformed public.

 

On a personal note, I watched that Temple Grandin movie a few months ago and it impacted me profoundly because it taught me. SHE taught me and it was nice.

[Tap]

I just hold my hand near my chest making an arrow pointing at the person they should be talking to. Then I mouth, "Talk To Them"...and then change where I am looking, to focus on that person also.  it solves the problem in the moment without drawing too much attention to the situation, but directly addresses it.  By my shifting my posture and eyes to the person they should be talking to, it automatically changes the focus to that person and away from me. 

[milovany]

What Tap said. I work in the disability field although I type for hearing impaired students instead of converse. In my case (if I'm working onsite), a professor might say to me, "She needs to turn in the homework by the end of class," and I'll type, "PROFESSOR: She needs to turn in the homework by the end of class" (which the student sees). Then I smile at the professor and say, "You can talk directly to her, I just type what I hear." Then I look down again and leave it be, letting them continue the conversation (which I'll type) -- or not.

 

 

[Carrie12345]

I agree with you that it is rude. I do not think it is intentional, though. I can think of a few instances I was engaged by a mentally disabled person, and though I faced them and spoke to them, I looked up or looked at their care giver/guardian/parent, to be sure I was on track with my response to them. I think most people want to be sure they are doing the right thing and not getting the person with the disability into trouble, giving bad advice, or going against a caregiver's wishes.

 

I suppose that since many people with mental disabilities have developmental maturity that is often far less than their actual biological age, people in public who interact with them do not know if they are dealing with a "16 year old" or an "8 year old" and want to air on a side of caution. Sadly, it comes across as rude...it is mostly because they just are not as familiar with all of it as you are.

 

If anything, I would be winsome in my response...they are trying to navigate a potentially new situation. Something like, "Would you tell Susie? She is very independent." It politely informs the person to whom they need to speak AND it makes Susie feel more mature! Win/win.

 

You know, now that it has been brought to my attention, I'm going to be more aware of what I'm doing. I think I probably have made this mistake for the above reasons.  I would never *intend* to be rude, and I don't believe that I've ever entirely bypassed a person speaking to me, but it's entirely possible that I've reflexively looked toward someone appearing to supervise.

 

(I feel like I mess up with kids and teens all the time as it is, both by neglecting to address caregivers and by jumping straight to them. I am not the greatest at people-ing.)

[J-rap]

I've seen this happen too.  Although I'm certain it's not intentional or meant to be rude, it is frustrating.  

 

It has happened recently when I've been out with my almost 90-year-old father.  He is a very smart man, totally on the ball.  He is completely independent, in charge of his life.  He has always been our family ring-leader!  :)  Anyway, lately when we've been out and need to stop by a customer service counter with a question that HE asks, they'll turn to ME to answer.  I know this is because of his age.  I felt very embarrassed the first time I noticed this happening.

 

What I do is turn and look right at my father, with a look that says "What do you think, Dad?" Or sometimes I walk away altogether so they are forced to deal only with my father.  

 

Again, I KNOW their actions aren't intentional;  I think it's just a subconscious reaction.  But it's good to call it to their attention with how we respond -- directing them them to speak with the person who needed the answer in the first place.  And honestly, I don't recall how I handled these situations myself before experiencing it with my father.  I think you have to learn to do this.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't think that it should require special training to know that if someone talks to you then you should respond to that person. At least initially. If you do respond to them and there is a breakdown in communication then it is appropriate to turn to the person with them for help. But even if this is reflexive and not meant to be rude, it is rude and dismissive of them as people.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lecka]

In the future, if you know you are going to be going to a certain place and potentially practicing skills, and it is going to be obvious you came in as a group... I wonder if you might call ahead and tell them? Or go up and speak to people at the desk as soon as you go in, to let them know?

 

It would be better if they already knew to do this, but if they don't, maybe it would be helpful if you go back to the same place.

[Guest]

Asking a question about something that is common knowledge is cueing the response. By including the instructor in the response, they are clueing you in and also inviting you to join if there is cognitive impairment. Try informing your students that public facilities have restrooms, so if they need to use one look for the signs that indicate where it is. If they can't find the signs,ask by saying 'Hi, could you tell me where the nearest restroom is?'.

 

 

Also, its not usual for a group leader to not tell the group where the facilities are in a place being visited. One doesn't expect that the entire group will one by one go ask a staff member, or that they will all spend time finding the signs. That info is relayed just before exiting the bus, along with the reminder of when and where to meet the group or bus for return.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Heigh Ho

[happi duck]

If I drive a group of people somewhere I don't point out the bathrooms.

 

Plus the op is teaching travel skills. Feeling comfortable asking for information falls into those skills.

 

Also, the student asked at the *information* desk, the perfect place to ask. I don't wander around searching when I need to use the bathroom...I ask.

 

If I ask about a restroom I might ask "where" or I might ask "is there a public bathroom?". Not everywhere has public restrooms and our library, and other places, requires a key.

 

I would think the information desk at the public library would have greater experience interacting with the great variety of humans that make up the public.

 

.

Edited August 4, 2017 by happi duck

[Lecka]

I think stereotypes are cueing the response.

 

I don't think that if a non-disabled person did the same thing, that the response would be the same.

 

But -- it happens, people don't realize. Then they can figure it out. It is just one of those things to put up with, and hope it will get better over time, and hope people see that it is good to address the person asking the question.

 

I have twins and I feel like this is in my face, if not all the time, at least frequently. But I keep in mind that most people didn't grow up with knowing kids with a handicap, and also most people are kind and well-meaning.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Lecka

[Daria]

Asking a question about something that is common knowledge is cueing the response. By including the instructor in the response, they are clueing you in and also inviting you to join if there is cognitive impairment. Try informing your students that public facilities have restrooms, so if they need to use one look for the signs that indicate where it is. If they can't find the signs,ask by saying 'Hi, could you tell me where the nearest restroom is?'.

 

 

Also, its not usual for a group leader to not tell the group where the facilities are in a place being visited. One doesn't expect that the entire group will one by one go ask a staff member, or that they will all spend time finding the signs. That info is relayed just before exiting the bus, along with the reminder of when and where to meet the group or bus for return.

Clearly my student knew that public libraries have restrooms, or she wouldn't have asked.

 

The purpose of our trips is to learn how to take care of oneself in a public place. Since the goal for this young woman is to travel places independently, she needs to use a strategy that doesn't include a teacher telling her where to go, because hopefully in the future she will be at the library without me. Asking the librarian was one good solution. Looking in obvious places would have been another, but because having the confidence to figure out a solution is part of the goal, I didn't suggest either. Instead I let her choose.

 

We were a group of 4. Myself and 3 teenagers. Two of my students did eventually ask questions. The other asked "Where can I find books about . . . " which I also feel is an appropriate question for a librarian. That student's disability is not visible so the librarian just answered.

[MommyLiberty5013]

Clearly my student knew that public libraries have restrooms, or she wouldn't have asked.

 

The purpose of our trips is to learn how to take care of oneself in a public place. Since the goal for this young woman is to travel places independently, she needs to use a strategy that doesn't include a teacher telling her where to go, because hopefully in the future she will be at the library without me. Asking the librarian was one good solution. Looking in obvious places would have been another, but because having the confidence to figure out a solution is part of the goal, I didn't suggest either. Instead I let her choose.

 

We were a group of 4. Myself and 3 teenagers. Two of my students did eventually ask questions. The other asked "Where can I find books about . . . " which I also feel is an appropriate question for a librarian. That student's disability is not visible so the librarian just answered.

In your OP, you said the girl asked if the library had a restroom. I think this poster was referring to your line in the OP. You used the word "if," which implies the girl did not know one existed or not.

 

 

I think what you are doing is important. It sounds like you got some good suggestions. Hopefully some will work out smoothly for you and your group.

[Guest]

Clearly my student knew that public libraries have restrooms, or she wouldn't have asked.

 

The purpose of our trips is to learn how to take care of oneself in a public place. Since the goal for this young woman is to travel places independently, she needs to use a strategy that doesn't include a teacher telling her where to go, because hopefully in the future she will be at the library without me. Asking the librarian was one good solution. Looking in obvious places would have been another, but because having the confidence to figure out a solution is part of the goal, I didn't suggest either. Instead I let her choose.

 

We were a group of 4. Myself and 3 teenagers. Two of my students did eventually ask questions. The other asked "Where can I find books about . . . " which I also feel is an appropriate question for a librarian. That student's disability is not visible so the librarian just answered.

You state your student asked if there was a bathroom. That is not the same meaning as ' where is the bathroom ',and its not common phrasing.

 

I have similar goals when I teach basic literacy or esl. Do not assume the library info desk is staffed by a nonliteral person, or a person who is familiar with american euphisms.

 

Bathroom and exit signs are basic needs that are taught before field trip. Did you teach where to look for signs, show what the signs look like, and then supervise as they practiced? I teach if its an emergency ask, if its not look for signs. Also, prefield trip info includes where the bathroom is in the building, and what to do if there is an emergency, includng where to meet. Basic needs are.taught before field trip for health and safety reasons. Its not appropriate to teach them on the fly for those reasons. Where to find different typrs of info is fine to leave for the field trip,.but putting your learner in an embarrasing position or making it unsafe for them in event of emergency is not appropriate...please go back and talk to your trainer about this. My agency would never allow your lesson plan to proceed.

 

I agree with other posters, if you aren't going to preteach basics, you need to give the staff a heads up, and follow up with a handwritten thank you note.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Heigh Ho

[happi duck]

Really I'm the only person who has ever asked "is there a bathroom nearby?" or "do you have a public bathroom?"????

 

The information desk can't answer "do you have a bathroom?" without being confused or without thinking that the person asking couldn't possibly understand the answer????

 

I am gobsmacked!

[knoxinsox]

My son flew Southwest as an unaccompanied minor this summer, and as soon as the desk clerk realized that it was not a group traveling, she addressed all questions to him.  We had to show our ID of course, but I was impressed with the level of service and that they directed all comments to him even after we presented him at the gate.  It was a nice confidence booster for a young man.

[gardenmom5]

I helped a profoundly physically disabled friend shop for his wife. . . . .  (major tbi- in a wheelchair, speaking is difficult and he speaks slowly.)

I was blunt to the "customer service" person trying to talk to me and told them directly to answer his question to him, as he was the one with the question - not me.

[happi duck]

Dearest library,

I just wanted to give you a heads up that patrons will be visiting the library today. Some of these patrons may ask for information such as where to find a certain book or the location of the restroom. I hope that by giving this advanced warning you will be able to look at the patron asking the question and give the appropriate answer. I apologize in advance if any of these questions are not asked with your preferred word order and you are troubled to ask any clarifying questions.

Sincerely,

Patron X

 

Then:

 

Thank you ever so much for answering a handful of questions today! I'm sure it was exhausting dealing with the patrons who asked such taxing questions like "where can I find mysteries?" and "do you have a bathroom?" That last question was certainly a doozy so thank you again for answering such a bizarrely worded question. What a feat that you were able to answer at all! Bravo!

With neverending gratitude,

Patron X

 

Of course this is all handwritten on fine paper.

 

For the remainder of this thread I will be "gobsmacked duck"

[Guest]

OP stated the staff member did provide the needed information in response.

OP objects to instructor being given an indication on inappropriate phrasing and possibly looking to instructor for help interpreting. Please remember, in US its common knowledge that public buidlings such as libraries have public restrooms. Asking if there is a restroom in a public library is unusual. Staffer may not have training to help cognitively impaired or enl basic and may be looking for instructor to assist..hard to know without further info.

[Daria]

I don't know how she phrased her question because I was across the room, and she used an appropriate volume.  She is a very polite young woman, and speaks in full sentences, so I assume the words "please" or "may" or "excuse me" might have been involved.   She probably used the euphemism "ladies room".  I do know that she was able to convey her meaning, because the librarian answered with directions to the ladies' bathroom.

 

In my area, only librarians may staff the information desk, as it's part of the union contract.  I know this because we've interviewed the librarian at a different branch as part of our study of career options.  In my experience, librarians have master's degrees and are able to understand that someone asking "Do you have a ladies room that I may use?" or "Is there a bathroom available to the public?" really means "Where is the women's public bathroom?"  I had another student who would have asked by saying "Bathroom" and shrugging and looking around, because she does not combine words verbally.  In her case, I would have been standing next to her, but I would have assumed that a librarian could have figured out what that meant too.  However, on this particular day, this student did not need the bathroom.

 

Being able to listen to a verbal description of the layout of a building, and remember the location of multiple places, is an incredibly challenging skill for many people with IDD.  Both working memory and visual map making are often significantly impacted.  Asking someone to point the way is an appropriate accommodation.  Frankly, it's not even a disability specific accommodation.  I like to wash my hands before I eat, and I usually ask my server for directions to the bathroom after I order my drink.  Yes, I could wander around the restaurant looking for a sign, but since the server is right there, and answering questions is part of what they are paid to do, I go ahead and ask.   I never thought that was unusual.  

 

As far as asking permission, or notifying people in advance, I will do so if it's a circumstance where I would do the same for a group of people without disabilities.   On the day of the library incident we started off at the grocery store where we bought cans for the soup kitchen, and some of us also purchased things to add to our picnic lunch.  I did not notify them in advance, since in my experience the grocery store is set up to accommodate people who come in unannounced to purchase canned items.  We the took the cans to a paint your own pottery place which was offering 1/2 price painting if you brought cans.  I did make a reservation there, because sometimes they fill up, although that day we were the only patrons.  We then had about an hour to kill before getting back on the train, so we looked at a map of the area and my students chose the library.  Again, libraries should be able to handle 4 extra people doing things like looking at books or using the restroom, so I felt no need to warn them we were coming.  

[Tanaqui]

Listen, I usually ask for bathrooms with the phrasing "Is there a bathroom?" and thus far, nobody has ever looked around for my hypothetical minder to tell them instead of me. I've heard other people use that phrasing too. If you can't figure out that "Is there a bathroom?" is not a literal request for information about the existence of toilets then you should not be working at the information desk. I don't know where you live that you've never heard people use this phrasing, but it's perfectly normal - if, indeed, this person did use that phrasing. You don't need any special training to say "It's right there" and point - and if you think you do, again, you shouldn't be working at the information desk.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Tanaqui

[Daria]

 

For the remainder of this thread I will be "gobsmacked duck"

 

Is it sad that I am not "gobsmacked", because I encounter these attitudes regularly?

[Tanaqui]

You know, the more I think about it, the more annoyed I am. Heigh Ho, are you suggesting that if this person had come in on her own it would be reasonable for the staff to just ignore her? Let her pee her pants or leave?

 

Clearly they understood what she was asking. And if you can understand what the other person is saying, it is reasonable to assume that they will probably understand you so long as you don't go out of your way to be confusing. There is no special training needed to point and say "thataway".

 

Are you really operating under the bizarre belief that disabled people only ever go places with guides?

Edited August 4, 2017 by Tanaqui

[Jean in Newcastle]

The idea that people with a disability of any kind need to warn people ahead of time that they are coming in and/or are going to be asking normal questions is terribly offensive.  Does Daria have to also walk ahead of them yelling "unclean" so that people can clear the way? 

 

#keepinggobsmackedduckcompany

[MrsMommy]

I would ask "if" there was a public bathroom in a place like a library because I don't want to assume anything. I don't think that's an unusual question at all, and I'm surprised anyone would have any problems with that phrasing.

 

As for the original question, well, I tend to be pretty salty. I grew up with two blind parents, and people would often direct questions for them to me, even when I was a child. I got used to just saying "why don't you ask them?" and not very politely. You wouldn't believe how many people assume blind equals deaf and also stupid!

[Guest]

Why is the onus of simply treating a person as, y'know, a PERSON, being thrown in the face of Daria and the facilitators??? I'm floored by some of the suggestions in this thread!

 

How about this: treat a fellow human being as a human being. Not hard. Sheesh.

[Guest]

The idea that people with a disability of any kind need to warn people ahead of time that they are coming in and/or are going to be asking normal questions is terribly offensive. Does Daria have to also walk ahead of them yelling "unclean" so that people can clear the way?

 

#keepinggobsmackedduckcompany

Yes. Thank you.

[Guest]

You know, the more I think about it, the more annoyed I am. Heigh Ho, are you suggesting that if this person had come in on her own it would be reasonable for the staff to just ignore her? Let her pee her pants or leave?

 

Clearly they understood what she was asking. And if you can understand what the other person is saying, it is reasonable to assume that they will probably understand you so long as you don't go out of your way to be confusing. There is no special training needed to point and say "thataway".

 

Are you really operating under the bizarre belief that disabled people only ever go places with guides?

Heigh Ho has a posting history that is rather disdainful of persons with special needs. Nothing new to see here, folks.

[happi duck]

Is it sad that I am not "gobsmacked", because I encounter these attitudes regularly?

:(

[gardenmom5]

OP stated the staff member did provide the needed information in response.

OP objects to instructor being given an indication on inappropriate phrasing and possibly looking to instructor for help interpreting. Please remember, in US its common knowledge that public buidlings such as libraries have public restrooms. Asking if there is a restroom in a public library is unusual. Staffer may not have training to help cognitively impaired or enl basic and may be looking for instructor to assist..hard to know without further info.

 

the ONLY reason it is unusual is because most people aren't there long enough to actually need to use it!   most people who spend that sort of time in a library - go often enough to become familiar with the layout - and only need to ever ask once. (if they didn't previously find it while looking for some obscure reference material)

 

If I'm unfamiliar with the building - I ask. to answer that takes < two seconds.   and as has been mentioned - some libraries keep the door locked (for reasons we won't go into), so you must get a key to use it.   (and if you've ever gone to the restroom on your own - only to have a "ask librarian for key" sign posted on the door . . . . . .then having to track down said librarian . . . . . sometimes it's faster to just go home. )

 

I also ask where it is as needed at restaurants - even though they are legally required to have one. it's rarely obvious - and I'm not going on a hunting expedition.

[gardenmom5]

Heigh Ho has a posting history that is rather disdainful of persons with special needs. Nothing new to see here, folks.

 

 

that's sad.

[MommyLiberty5013]

Heigh Ho has a posting history that is rather disdainful of persons with special needs. Nothing new to see here, folks.

I didn't read that here at all as being "disdain" toward any group or person. I think she comes at this from her own teaching perspective and set of experiences for helping people navigate the public world. She does, in fact, seem to have similar experience, but her students are from ESL, which is the major difference, but similar context. She is simply disagreeing with the OP, which has nothing to do with "disdain" for special needs. She has pointed out the need to educate the group ahead of the visit on sign usage and reading. I can see from her perspective that is one of several valid responses to this scenario from the OP. I don't get why it has to degenerate into a personal attack.

Edited August 4, 2017 by MommyLiberty5013

[Daria]

I think that many people have the notion that people with disabilities, or specifically people with intellectual disabilities, should "prove" their worthiness to be included in the community.  To me, this is the modern version of the "poll tax" or the "literacy test".  White people can vote, and black people can vote too if they do X, Y and Z.  People without IDD can go where they choose, and people with IDD can go where they choose if they're careful to ask permission, always scan their environment for restroom signs, and keep their minders visible at all times. Both systems are equally fair.

 

[Tanaqui]

I didn't read that here at all as being "disdain" toward any group or person. I think she comes at this from her own teaching perspective and set of experiences for helping people navigate the public world. She does, in fact, seem to have similar experience, but her students are from ESL, which is the major difference, but similar context. She is simply disagreeing with the OP, which has nothing to do with "disdain" for special needs. She has pointed out the need to educate the group ahead of the visit on sign usage and reading. I can see from her perspective that is one of several valid responses to this scenario from the OP. I don't get why it has to degenerate into a personal attack.

 

She suggested that a small group of disabled people should "announce" they are coming before they go to a library. I've never heard of an elementary class or a daycare following this rule unless they were doing a special event.

 

She also suggested that people might need special training to answer questions like "where is the bathroom" when those questions come from disabled people or non-native speakers. The only reason I'm not more offended is because the idea is simply risible.

 

If you are not capable of giving simple directions to people who are a little different from you, then you don't belong in any customer service position.