Free-range, neighborhoods, and how to talk to people

[AimeeM]

I have no clue how to appropriately title this.

 

I live in a lovely, new-build subdivision in a smaller town. We just moved in almost 2 years. Very nice, large homes, in a neighborhood with sidewalks, a pool with a lazy river and waterfall, a clubhouse, etc.

 

We know NOBODY here. Despite the neighborhood being filled to bust with kids my kids' ages, zilch. Cliques had already formed by the time we came, and newbies typically get in by default of having their kids in the school down the street, waiting at the bus stop together, etc. I'm not in there.

 

And most of the time, I'm perfectly okay with that. Everybody seems pretty nice, I'm just not "buddies" with any of them. It's polar opposite our old neighborhood.

 

I have no clue how to talk to the neighbors about a couple of issues that involve MANY of them. It's not like there's only one or two -- it's like a neighborhood epidemic. I might even be the only person annoyed and concerned :p

 

With the summer months, most of the kids are home all day. I can totally be on board with children of appropriate ages being allowed to run the neighborhood. Because I would assume that a typical 7 or 8 year old would know basic safety road rules, etiquette, etc. 

The problem is that even the 3 and 4 year olds are out -- unsupervised, playing in the road around their house. And when I say "playing IN the road," I do literally mean playing in the middle of the road. And show no understanding of needing to move for vehicles. Or, even better, playing in my driveway, at the end of my driveway. Or stopping at the end of my driveway, while playing on sidewalks, AS I'm backing out my full-sized SUV, and just staring at the back of my moving vehicle. Eventually the kids move, or eventually a parent comes out of their house and moves the kids, but it only takes ONE time for tragedy to happen. I kind of just want to be like, "If your kid is playing and roaming the neighborhood, please first teach them to get out of the way for moving vehicles." I know all kids can freeze occasionally, and I wouldn't bring this up if it had only happened once or twice. But I get sincerely worried watching some of the really little guys play in the road. 

 

Tonight at the pool, almost a dozen parents were in the same shallow end drinking wine and beer, while their young children were dive-bombing in the lazy river... with no regard to people floating in the lazy river, and almost landing on smaller children floating several times, and not stopping even when I finally became frustrated and told them to stop (for the record, I am NOT a fan of telling children other than my own what to do -- but this was an immediate need, dangerous (take out the issue of them landing almost on smaller kids -- the lazy river is NOT a safe place to dive bomb), and I have no clue who their parents were in that mix. Again, a lot of the kids were very young (4 or 5), mixed with a few random older kids (8 to 10-ish). 

 

And the golf carts. Holy moly. And these are the adults! They will park next to other golf carts, in the middle of the road. And when you drive up, instead of them moving out of your lane, they wave you past! And you just pray that a kid on a bike isn't going to come streaking around the now-blind curve (blind because of chatty golf carts -- not a blind curve otherwise).

 

1. Are my frustrations unjustified? Is this typical neighborhood stuff?

 

2. If I bring this up with my neighbors, how much backlash can I expect? 

 

3. If I bring this up with my neighbors, HOW do I bring it up? 

Edited July 19, 2017 by AimeeM

[TeenagerMom]

Do you have an HOA you could bring your concerns up to?

[AimeeM]

Do you have an HOA you could bring your concerns up to?

The HOA is still builder-owned and way less than reliable (outsourced to a management company). Unless you leave your trashcan out for too long -- then they are on their game. 

[Rachel]

Are there life guards at the pool? That's how his wound address the pool problems.

[Plink]

To meet the parents bring a bottle of wine to the pool (leave DH at home with littles) and ask to join them.  Talk about everything and anything other than the changes you want to make.  Invite them to meet again soon for s'mores in your backyard, a movie night, or whatever, and just get to know them.  Do this repeatedly.  Eventually you will learn who the group leader is, and you can mention your concern for the little ones.  Hopefully they will agree with you, and the two of you can spread the word together.  

 

The golf-cart issue, however, I'd drop.  If there is room to maneuver around, and you are going slow, I don't think it is a problem.

[luuknam]

I'd move. Apparently your neighborhood is full of inconsiderate people, and while you can talk to them about individual issues, that's not going to change the root problem. 

[AimeeM]

I'd move. Apparently your neighborhood is full of inconsiderate people, and while you can talk to them about individual issues, that's not going to change the root problem. 

That isn't happening if I can help it, lol. The moving process was a nightmare and short of absolutely having to, the very thought of doing it again makes me itch.

 

It's entirely possible that I'm just far more up my kids' rears than most other parents. I'm not known for my ability to "let loose."

[OneStepAtATime]

To meet the parents bring a bottle of wine to the pool (leave DH at home with littles) and ask to join them. Talk about everything and anything other than the changes you want to make. Invite them to meet again soon for s'mores in your backyard, a movie night, or whatever, and just get to know them. Do this repeatedly. Eventually you will learn who the group leader is, and you can mention your concern for the little ones. Hopefully they will agree with you, and the two of you can spread the word together.

 

The golf-cart issue, however, I'd drop. If there is room to maneuver around, and you are going slow, I don't think it is a problem.

This.

[AimeeM]

Are there life guards at the pool? That's how his wound address the pool problems.

No lifeguards. It isn't a standard pool. I'm not sure if that's the reason, but I know it isn't like the pools at other local subdivisions -- it's more like a resort or amenity pool. I don't know how to describe it, except to say that it's different and not the type that you could, say, use for swimming laps. Part of the issue is that when the parents are in the main pool area, they can't see the kids on the other side of the lazy river because of how the entire pool area is shaped.

[AimeeM]

To meet the parents bring a bottle of wine to the pool (leave DH at home with littles) and ask to join them.  Talk about everything and anything other than the changes you want to make.  Invite them to meet again soon for s'mores in your backyard, a movie night, or whatever, and just get to know them.  Do this repeatedly.  Eventually you will learn who the group leader is, and you can mention your concern for the little ones.  Hopefully they will agree with you, and the two of you can spread the word together.  

 

The golf-cart issue, however, I'd drop.  If there is room to maneuver around, and you are going slow, I don't think it is a problem.

I'm really bad at this kind of thing.

Do you think they would notice if I brought a more talkative friend (from outside the neighborhood) along?  :coolgleamA:  (I kid, I kid.)

[Valley Girl]

Does you neighborhood have any groups events--National Night Out, neighborhood cookout, homeowner's meetings, etc.?

 

That might be a good time to invite a local police officer (especially if you have anyone specific who might be a contact person for your neighborhood) to give a talk on safety--home security, block watch, etc. with special attention on basic things like kids not playing in the road. If it's part of a larger program, maybe it will drive the point home without your having to broach the subject.

 

 

[MistyMountain]

We have young kids who wander in my neighborhood and they are younger then I let my kids roam but they are good about watching for cars and crossing. We did have issues with one batch getting into trouble but if they are not getting into trouble and know how to handle the street then it really does not bother me.

 

If the kids are getting in front of cars and not understanding street safety and nearly dive bombing into younger kids in a lazy river that is a safety issue though. The dive bombing is especially concerning because those small kids in the river are at serious risk of drowning if a kid jumps into them. It really does need to be addressed. You are justified bringing it up but I am not sure the best way of doing it.

[Tanaqui]

If most people in your neighborhood are okay with this sort of thing, I don't think you'll be able to make much of a dent. Whether you're right or wrong, they'll just write you off as a paranoid.

[katilac]

 

 

2. If I bring this up with my neighbors, how much backlash can I expect? 

 

 

 

 

I think I can answer this question: a lot. You can expect a lot of backlash for pushing back against an ingrained culture that you are not a part of, with people you barely know. 

 

That doesn't mean you shouldn't address any of it. Personally, I would stick to the pool issue, because the other stuff is too subjective, and there's no 'central authority' so to speak. But someone is writing the insurance checks for that pool, and that's probably who you need to speak with. In a friendly manner. Very quietly. 

[MommyLiberty5013]

Maybe back into your garage, so you have full view when pulling out. This little kid in the way likely won't change. So instead, though annoying, you change. Bc better to do that than kill the ring leader's toddler.

 

Your story is making me itch! We left suburbia to avoid all this.

[Pen]

Can you back in to driveway so that you can see the kids ahead when you leave?  If it is a couple of kids who tend to be in your driveway dangerously that might need talking to parents of those kids about, but I'd start with trying to be facing forward and telling the kids themselves to move.

 

Try to watch your own kids for safety in Lazy River, but do not take on Lifeguarding of other kids, IMO.  If you are by other adults you could say something like, "Oh, I'd love to talk more, can we get together ______ for ______?  but right now I have to go watch Junior because I noticed there were big kids diving in the lazy river. "

 

 

 

 

[NorthwestMom]

No lifeguards. It isn't a standard pool. I'm not sure if that's the reason, but I know it isn't like the pools at other local subdivisions -- it's more like a resort or amenity pool. I don't know how to describe it, except to say that it's different and not the type that you could, say, use for swimming laps. Part of the issue is that when the parents are in the main pool area, they can't see the kids on the other side of the lazy river because of how the entire pool area is shaped.

 

Holy crap, that isn't going to end well.  :ohmy:

[AimeeM]

Holy crap, that isn't going to end well.  :ohmy:

I'm honestly not aware of many subdivisions that have lifeguards, locally, and almost all have pools. 

[AimeeM]

Maybe back into your garage, so you have full view when pulling out. This little kid in the way likely won't change. So instead, though annoying, you change. Bc better to do that than kill the ring leader's toddler.

 

Your story is making me itch! We left suburbia to avoid all this.

I can't back into the garage, but I can back into the drive. I don't know why I didn't think of that. 

[AimeeM]

Can you back in to driveway so that you can see the kids ahead when you leave?  If it is a couple of kids who tend to be in your driveway dangerously that might need talking to parents of those kids about, but I'd start with trying to be facing forward and telling the kids themselves to move.

 

Try to watch your own kids for safety in Lazy River, but do not take on Lifeguarding of other kids, IMO.  If you are by other adults you could say something like, "Oh, I'd love to talk more, can we get together ______ for ______?  but right now I have to go watch Junior because I noticed there were big kids diving in the lazy river. "

Mine aren't allowed near the lazy river without me or DD15 in there with them, right beside them. The main reason is because they are both tiny for their age, and there is a "pull" to the lazy river. Even with their safety vests on, I just prefer they be attached to a grown up in that part of the pool.

 

Honestly, though, there's no watching them (our two little guys) that will fix this. Tonight the other kids (some the same age as my boys, but just physically bigger) were literally running toward the lazy river and dive bombing in. I couldn't anticipate where and when it was coming, short of just getting out of the pool with my kids. I'm definitely not trying to police the other kids -- but I also don't want kids who are using the lazy river appropriately to be run out by this other group, kwim? Since I'm in the lazy river with my kids, I am nowhere near the adults (who are on the other side of the pool), so if I say something, it would be intentional -- I couldn't pass it off as just a mention of not being able to chat right now, kids to watch, etc. 

By the second time it happened, DD15 almost had a fit. She told the other kids to knock it off and watch where the were jumping -- they almost took down DS8 again, who was in a bright green float that couldn't be missed. At that point, I did gather my kids and we left shortly after trying to relocate my kids to a different part of the pool. 

[staceyobu]

In my neighborhood, people generally air their grievances on the neighborhood facebook page.  

[Penelope]

I would personally only address the tiny children in driveway issue. Every time this happened, I would get out of my car and physically walk the child to their door and let the parent know nicely they were in the driveway right up by my car and how concerned I was that I could have hit them. (I know I would do this because I have done it). It could be that the parents did not know the child was in someone else's yard, or they thought an older child was watching them and they need a wake-up call. There is a nice way to do it and also meet another parent with kids, and some not-nice ways. I would choose the nice one. But it is a huge problem and it directly affects you and is a problem you cannot avoid. I also assume every parent wants their kids to be safe around cars.

 

I would probably avoid the pool issues altogether until you get a little more involved in the community. These parents probably have the mindset of letting kids be kids and work things out, and I would be doubtful of getting anywhere with it.

[Janeway]

I'd move. Apparently your neighborhood is full of inconsiderate people, and while you can talk to them about individual issues, that's not going to change the root problem. 

To be honest, above situation is why I do not want to move to a new neighborhood. These issues seem more common with recently built neighborhoods. You do not get very many older or more established families. It is not a problem in every new neighborhood, but happens enough that I prefer older and more established places with a good assortment of age groups and such.

[SereneHome]

To meet the parents bring a bottle of wine to the pool (leave DH at home with littles) and ask to join them.  Talk about everything and anything other than the changes you want to make.  Invite them to meet again soon for s'mores in your backyard, a movie night, or whatever, and just get to know them.  Do this repeatedly.  Eventually you will learn who the group leader is, and you can mention your concern for the little ones.  Hopefully they will agree with you, and the two of you can spread the word together.  

 

The golf-cart issue, however, I'd drop.  If there is room to maneuver around, and you are going slow, I don't think it is a problem.

 

That is a LOT of work to put into something that is a very serious safety issue.

 

I am a fairly blunt person and I like going to the source.   I would take a 3 yr old who is playing at the end of your driveway and ask them to lead me back to their house where  I would politely tell the parents your concerns.  THAT I would do repeatedly. 

 

Pool - leave it to lifeguards.

 

Golf carts - I don't know....

[Guinevere]

Sometimes I've had better luck in these sorts of situations (pool) by becoming friends with the kids, and just bypass the parents altogether.  My dh, actually, is way better at it than I am.  He'd be in the pool showing the kids cool tricks, starting games of tag or whatever, and pretty soon, they'd all be so excited to see him that they do whatever he says.  It worked at our last neighborhood; we even had little kids coming to knock on the door to see if my husband could play!  All bullying and rough-housing stopped because they wanted to play with him, and he wouldn't play if they acted like that.  

[QueenCat]

To meet the parents bring a bottle of wine to the pool (leave DH at home with littles) and ask to join them.  Talk about everything and anything other than the changes you want to make.  Invite them to meet again soon for s'mores in your backyard, a movie night, or whatever, and just get to know them.  Do this repeatedly.  Eventually you will learn who the group leader is, and you can mention your concern for the little ones.  Hopefully they will agree with you, and the two of you can spread the word together.  

 

The golf-cart issue, however, I'd drop.  If there is room to maneuver around, and you are going slow, I don't think it is a problem.

 

I would do this........ I have done this type of thing. It works. It is much easier to work through things when you become a part of the community and not just someone who lives there.

[almondbutterandjelly]

 

1. Are my frustrations unjustified? Is this typical neighborhood stuff?

 

2. If I bring this up with my neighbors, how much backlash can I expect? 

 

3. If I bring this up with my neighbors, HOW do I bring it up? 

 

1.  Your frustrations are justified, but this is also typical neighborhood stuff.

 

2.  You can expect a lot of backlash.  This will not go over well, no matter how you do it.

 

3.  I'm not sure there is a good way to bring this up to the neighbors.  It won't go over well.  They are letting their kids behave this way.

 

((hugs)) I am shy as well.  I would have a very hard time living in this neighborhood.  I would go to the pool when fewer people were there.  I would say to the dive-bombers, "Hey, let's not do that in the lazy river.  It's not safe.  Go to the main pool, please."  and hope they listen.  I would have someone watching as I back out my car every time.  Like have my big kid get out and watch to make sure no kids are there.  (By the way, this is not just your neighborhood.  If there are little kids out and cars backing out, it just happens.  Little kids are clueless.)

 

Best of luck.  Honestly, unless you are a great, diplomatic talker (and it sounds like that is not your strength area), it's probably not going to go over well.

[Aura]

Our neighborhood has a facebook page, too. It can get heated occasionally, but it's good place to post generic reminders about things like the need to S L O W down! It's also been way more helpful than the occasional disagreements. For one thing, you quickly find out whether you're the only one bothered by something or whether other people share the same concern....and I bet that there are others that share your concern about littles playing in the road! 

 

Kids in the driveways, though, is IMO just part of being in a neighborhood with kids. You check the drive and make sure you can see all the kids before moving. I back in partly because of this, too. If the kids are too little to know to move or whatever, then, yeah, take them home to their parent.

 

Golf carts, though? I'm not seeing an issue with carts...or cars...parked on the side of the road as long as you have room to go around them. We're not supposed to have cars parked on the road overnight, but often people visiting just park on the side instead of pulling into the drives. I don't know why because there's usually plenty of room, but they do. So the golf cart thing is non-issue to me. You just have to go slow.

[EmilyGF]

In our neighborhood, I just talk with the kids politely. "I'm backing out. I don't want to hit you. But you're small enough that I can't see you when I back out. Please move." If that doesn't work (and I find it does work 90% of the time - they are so freaked out by having an adult address them like a real person) then I go talk to a parent.

 

If the parents are giving their kids this level of freedom, the kids deserve to be spoken to as sentient human beings. 

 

Emily

[KungFuPanda]

I'm honestly not aware of many subdivisions that have lifeguards, locally, and almost all have pools.

OMG! I didn't know this was a thing ANYWHERE. I've never been to a community pool with no life guards

[AimeeM]

OMG! I didn't know this was a thing ANYWHERE. I've never been to a community pool with no life guards

 

I've never seen a subdivision that does have one here.

 

However, I just asked my husband and it appears that this may be an individual decision allowed by each HOA, since the HOAs are privately owned? He said that some of the larger subdivisions have lifeguards at their pools. 

[Carrie12345]

I've never seen a subdivision that does have one here.

 

However, I just asked my husband and it appears that this may be an individual decision allowed by each HOA, since the HOAs are privately owned? He said that some of the larger subdivisions have lifeguards at their pools. 

 

I was trying to get my community to ditch the lifeguards at most of our swimming locations. They rarely do much anyway, and they'll close a pool or lake if they don't have the staff. I've had some summers where I couldn't safely take the kids swimming (because the open location/s would be overcrowded.)

 

It is (here) the development's choice.  I made them look into the insurance requirements.  They decided to stick with lifeguards after a child drowned... in a full pool with multiple lifeguards on duty.

 

We have 2 pools and 5 lakes (3 for swimming), and now I want a pool in my backyard because the whole situation is just a pain in the butt!