Updated in #1: United Airlines flight Oversold (?) in Chicago - Violent removal of passenger

[Guest]

$450 for just FF membership? I thought most are free and only cost if you want Club Level or something, but as I've said before, we haven't flown United since 2006, so I don't know about theirs. We only belong to Southwest's at this point in our lives (and it's free) as we don't travel on other single airlines enough to make it worthwhile. With Southwest we get a fair number of free flights.

I can't remember all of the perks it got, but it definitely wasn't free. I'm almost positive it was $450 the years we had it. I think it was early boarding, Club access and things like that. He used to travel enough to have whatever status and the card meant he was almost always in first class on his business trips. I had no idea until he started traveling so much a few years back that there's this whole secret world of VIP traveling and special elite flight status above silver or gold type thing. Like the article Jean posted- that apparently happens more than we know according to dh. He was listing out some of the status titles and who had them last night when I was talking to him about the whole debacle.

[StaceyinLA]

As a former airline employee, I can assure you that if airlines did not "Overbook" flights (a reservation status in the computerized reservation system) they would go bankrupt. More people with paid for tickets, no-show, for a variety of reasons, than you would imagine.

Here is what I don't understand; if the no-shows have already PAID for tickets, who really cares if they don't show up? How is the airline losing money from that? I honestly do not understand this.

[Riverland]

They are losing surplus money on top of the unused non-refundable ticket. If they overbooked, they would have sold an extra ticket and that person sits in the unused seat. It's like insurance that they'll have a full flight. So what if a few people end up stuck in an airport.

 

I sell 7 tickets to my dinner table. The table only sits 6. I know one person that bought a ticket is really flaky and probably won't show. So I bet they won't show by selling 7 tickets hoping to make a profit on the flaky person while still only having to serve 6.

The problem is that you are thinking like a human being and not a huge corporation that is only interested in maximizing profits.

 

I may be in the minority, but I am glad that airlines overbook. We love taking advantage of bump compensation. DD did a LOT of her flying back and forth for college on bump $$.

[Lanny]

I read last night that the passenger involved is in a hospital in Chicago and that his family has secured an Attorney in Chicago. I think that Attorney secured an Aviation Attorney in Chicago. So, he has 2 Attorneys now and United can see what is ahead for them in the legal system..  Hopefully United will lose a lot of money because of this and change their ways.

[Lanny]

They are losing surplus money on top of the unused non-refundable ticket. If they overbooked, they would have sold an extra ticket and that person sits in the unused seat. It's like insurance that they'll have a full flight. So what if a few people end up stuck in an airport.

 

I sell 7 tickets to my dinner table. The table only sits 6. I know one person that bought a ticket is really flaky and probably won't show. So I bet they won't show by selling 7 tickets hoping to make a profit on the flaky person while still only having to serve 6.

The problem is that you are thinking like a human being and not a huge corporation that is only interested in maximizing profits.

 

A seat on a Civil Turbojet aircraft is perishable. When the aircraft pushes back from the gate, if there are any empty seats, that revenue is lost, forever. The same thing if a Cruise Ship leaves with empty cabins. Perishable products. There are many other examples. If one is selling Refrigerators or TVs or whatever and   doesn't sell them today, hopefully tomorrow or next week they can be sold. 

[kitten18]

Let me see if I can link this article on another recent United incident.

United passenger threatened with handcuffs to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler - Los Angeles Times

https://apple.news/Axw4KvrGoQCC4Hs5SeZ14yA

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can't believe they didn't refund his ticket. And then grudgingly gave him $500. I'm guessing $500 doesn't mean much to this guy, he was willing to pay $1,000 for a first class, one way ticket. $500 isn't going to make him happy.

 

 

As the article points out, one of their biggest problems is their rigid policies. They don't give their employees any authority to treat customers right.

 

My dh used to work for a giant home builder and was in charge of customer service for his division. They always had the highest customer satisfaction scores and their division had the highest profit margins. You can treat customers right, make them happy, and make money at the same time.

Edited April 12, 2017 by kitten18

[gardenmom5]

Like $400 or $800? /sarcasm

 

an hour.  per person on the crisis team.  at least.

 

I read last night that the passenger involved is in a hospital in Chicago and that his family has secured an Attorney in Chicago. I think that Attorney secured an Aviation Attorney in Chicago. So, he has 2 Attorneys now and United can see what is ahead for them in the legal system..  Hopefully United will lose a lot of money because of this and change their ways.

 

they're already starting to lose money.  the question will be if they can keep it from becoming a hemorrhage.

[gardenmom5]

I can't believe they didn't refund his ticket. And then grudgingly gave him $500. I'm guessing $500 doesn't mean much to this guy, he was willing to pay $1,000 for a first class, one way ticket. $500 isn't going to make him happy.

 

 

As the article points out, one of their biggest problems is their rigid policies. They don't give their employees any authority to treat customers right.

 

My dh used to work for a giant home builder and was in charge of customer service for his division. They always had the highest customer satisfaction scores and their division had the highest profit margins. You can treat customers right, make them happy, and make money at the same time.

 

and  happy customers refer their friends.

 

unhappy customers tell all their friends and acquaintances their horror stories which prompts at least some of them not to use your service.

 

the guy in the story should have charged united for being a marriage counselor - since they stuck him right in the middle of the fighting couple.

[Lanny]

Here is what I don't understand; if the no-shows have already PAID for tickets, who really cares if they don't show up? How is the airline losing money from that? I honestly do not understand this.

 

If it is an excellent airline (I am using Avianca here, because of my personal experience and the experience of a neighbor down the street, who had 2 or 3 of her daughters with her)  the passengers who do not show up for a flight, because they arrive at the airport too late, or misconnect from another flight, etc., will be reaccomodated on another, later flight, at no charge to them.   That's certainly good PR for the carriers that do that. I am not sure if that is required by law here in Colombia or in the USA.  If one misconnects, they ARE going to be taken care of. If one screws up, as I did in Bogota once, and misses their flight, and that's what happened with our neighbors, I am *not* sure what, if anything the airlines are required to do,  to help the passenger.  That may be required by law or by the "Contract of Carriage" of the individual airline.  The lowest cost tickets are what we purchase. Those are the most restrictive tickets.  Some airlines probably have a policy of ("oh, you missed your flight because you were stuck in the U.S. Embassy, or in traffic, or whatever, too bad for you, buy another ticket") and others are more accommodating.  I'm not sure what the laws/airline rules on this are.  It may vary from airline to airline and country to country and fare basis to fare basis.

[Lanny]

and  happy customers refer their friends.

 

unhappy customers tell all their friends and acquaintances their horror stories which prompts at least some of them not to use your service.

 

the guy in the story should have charged united for being a marriage counselor - since they stuck him right in the middle of the fighting couple.

 

I read that he was in a Window seat and was dragged out of that Window seat by the Goon from the Chicago Airport Security.

[kitten18]

I read that he was in a Window seat and was dragged out of that Window seat by the Goon from the Chicago Airport Security.

She was talking about the guy in the LA times article that Jean linked on the last page.

Different guy, more bad customer service. 😉

[Julie Smith]

I read that he was in a Window seat and was dragged out of that Window seat by the Goon from the Chicago Airport Security.

 

You two are talking about two different customers. 

[OneStepAtATime]

I can't believe they didn't refund his ticket. And then grudgingly gave him $500. I'm guessing $500 doesn't mean much to this guy, he was willing to pay $1,000 for a first class, one way ticket. $500 isn't going to make him happy.

 

 

As the article points out, one of their biggest problems is their rigid policies. They don't give their employees any authority to treat customers right.

 

My dh used to work for a giant home builder and was in charge of customer service for his division. They always had the highest customer satisfaction scores and their division had the highest profit margins. You can treat customers right, make them happy, and make money at the same time.

If I recall correctly he didn't get offered cash, he got offered $500 credit towards his next flight?

 

United, as far as I have had experience with them, really rarely offers cash anymore.  They offer credit for future flights.  Usually in the form of vouchers.  Perhaps there are exceptions but that has been my experience and that of my husband. That makes it the passenger's responsibility to keep up with the vouchers and make sure they apply them when traveling in the future.  If you don't travel much this seems pretty useless.  It is also a pain.  For some it is probably worth it, especially if they travel a lot and have to cover their own travel costs.  For others it is just useless.

[gardenmom5]

I read that he was in a Window seat and was dragged out of that Window seat by the Goon from the Chicago Airport Security.

different guy from the linked article.  he'd been in first class in hawaii (paid $1000 for his one-way ticket), and the airline took his seat to give it to someone "more important".  they were going to just boot him off the flight - but finally  "re-accommodated" him in economy between a couple who were fighting and didn't want to sit together.  so - six hours of non-stop fighting.  they only refunded the difference between the cost of the first class ticket and the economy ticket after he kept complaining.

[Riverland]

DD was flying United on Christmas in 2015. Her flight was delayed significantly enough that she missed the big family meal. The delay was WEATHER related. There was nothing United could do, and compensation was definitely not required or expected. Oh, and she had likely booked that ticket using prior bump compensation $$.

 

But, dd loves to play the system and at least try. So she sent United an email politely explaining how her Christmas was "ruined" and they promptly issued her a travel voucher. I think it was for $200.

 

NOT saying that United's behavior in these recent events is excusable or right!! Just saying that, at least sometimes, they do go above and beyond.

[Lanny]

I just watched this video of Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey, who was on Fox & Friends this morning.  Wow...    :hurray:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/12/christie-tees-off-on-awful-united-airlines-in-wake-uproar.html

[Jean in Newcastle]

They are losing surplus money on top of the unused non-refundable ticket. If they overbooked, they would have sold an extra ticket and that person sits in the unused seat. It's like insurance that they'll have a full flight. So what if a few people end up stuck in an airport.

 

I sell 7 tickets to my dinner table. The table only seats 6. I know one person that bought a ticket is really flaky and probably won't show. So I bet they won't show by selling 7 tickets hoping to make a profit on the flaky person while still only having to serve 6.

The problem is that you are thinking like a human being and not a huge corporation that is only interested in maximizing profits.

We're thinking that they shouldn't be greedy and try to make money on gambling that people will miss their flights. The seat is paid for whether someone is sitting in it or not. Can any other industry bill twice for the same product? I thought that was what stand by was for: to use unused seats AFTER a person has missed the deadline for checking in.

[mathnerd]

We're thinking that they shouldn't be greedy and try to make money on gambling that people will miss their flights. The seat is paid for whether someone is sitting in it or not. Can any other industry bill twice for the same product? I thought that was what stand by was for: to use unused seats AFTER a person has missed the deadline for checking in.

I agree. I used to gripe a lot about insurance companies having too much control. Now, I am thinking that airline companies seem to have too much protection from the law to run their businesses as they please. I am disappointed that big corporations have influenced laws that seem to be corporation friendly and not on the side of the customer. This incident has educated me definitely.

[PeppermintPattie]

I agree with everything you said so eloquently.

Isn't United a publicly traded company? They (their CEO, presumably) owe their shareholders an answer when they are seen as a company who hurts passengers (bleeding in the face, in this case) when the passenger did not provoke anyone. Their policies and actions led to the assault of this passenger. I am glad that there are smartphones and twitter which makes this type of violence public. He paid of his seat and he has the right to say that he wants to go home (which are the words attributed to him). I would refuse in his position too. $1000 in vouchers will not make up for the hassle in missed flights.

 

...the hassle of a missed flight, having to leave the airport w/o luggage and figure out where to go, and then come back later and go through security again - all pretty difficult for a 40 yo man, but really rough for a 70 yo, and maybe impossible if he has to do it all alone. 

 

Americans could fix the way airlines treat passengers almost instantly if no one made a United reservation for the next 10 days, or so. Can you imagine what this would do to the airline industry?!? They would all be scared it could happen to them next! (I thought the same thing after the Wells Fargo mess - if just 25% of their customers would leave...) 

[Lady Florida.]

I just watched this video of Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey, who was on Fox & Friends this morning.  Wow...    :hurray:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/12/christie-tees-off-on-awful-united-airlines-in-wake-uproar.html

 

Quite a few lawmakers are demanding answers and possible changes.

 

http://www.mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2017/4/11/video_united_airline.html

[Jean in Newcastle]

...the hassle of a missed flight, having to leave the airport w/o luggage and figure out where to go, and then come back later and go through security again - all pretty difficult for a 40 yo man, but really rough for a 70 yo, and maybe impossible if he has to do it all alone. 

 

Americans could fix the way airlines treat passengers almost instantly if no one made a United reservation for the next 10 days, or so. Can you imagine what this would do to the airline industry?!? They would all be scared it could happen to them next! (I thought the same thing after the Wells Fargo mess - if just 25% of their customers would leave...) 

 

The problem is that many cities are only served by United airlines.  It has gotten harder to boycott certain airlines because often there is no other choice.  Or the other choice is a small charter that costs $$$ more.  

[shawthorne44]

Well, the problem is that even the big boys treat people like cattle and it isn't like paying more gets you better treatment.  I remember being on the AA nerd-bird flights, DFW-SJC, paying > $2000 round trip bought more than 14 days in advance but less than 21 days in advance, and being told that they don't stock enough soda on the flight for me to have an entire can of Diet Coke.  A part of initial prepared speech was that the flight attendants were primarily there for our safety and that they would only serve food and drinks as convenient around their primary duties.  

 

There is a reason we are driving to Florida this summer even though DD passionately wants to fly on a plane and I hate long car trips.   

[Paige]

It's hard to understand how airlines are in such financial trouble and have to overbook and treat passengers like dogs when their executives are making many millions. I'm sure someone has a fancy reason for why it has to be so, but if I have a small business and I'm struggling, I don't pay myself $$$$$$$. 

[Dmmetler]

It worries me. United is practically the only airline we can fly for DD's summer program without at least 2 connecting flights (Southwest has two connections and one "direct" with a stop but no plane change). Or two separate Allegiant flights.

[Bootsie]

United just announced that all passengers on the flight from Chicago will be reimbursed for the price of their tickets.

[Lanny]

Well, the problem is that even the big boys treat people like cattle and it isn't like paying more gets you better treatment.  I remember being on the AA nerd-bird flights, DFW-SJC, paying > $2000 round trip bought more than 14 days in advance but less than 21 days in advance, and being told that they don't stock enough soda on the flight for me to have an entire can of Diet Coke.  A part of initial prepared speech was that the flight attendants were primarily there for our safety and that they would only serve food and drinks as convenient around their primary duties.  

 

There is a reason we are driving to Florida this summer even though DD passionately wants to fly on a plane and I hate long car trips.   

 

The bolded I quoted is absolutely and completely and totally true.  The reason Flight Attendants are aboard a Civil Turbojet aircraft carrying paying passengers is ONLY for safety reasons.  Serving food and drinks is something they normally do, time and turbulence permitting.  They are there for your safety, in the unlikely event of a survivable accident.  If Federal law (F.A.A. regulations called F.A.R.s) did not require them to be aboard, the airlines would not pay them to be aboard.  

 

When Airline Flight Attendants go for "Recurrent Training" it is all about safety, first-aid, etc..  When airlines have an "Evacuation party", to see how fast a plane full of people can be evacuated (and bear in mind they are airline employees who know in advance they are going to do that) it is all about safety.

 

When I flew on Ferry flights, from Texas to California or back,  we usually had a few Flight Attendants among the employees who were aboard the aircraft.  We always had someone at each door, for safety reasons. Although we were not carrying revenue passengers, Safety is always  the #1 thing. The airline usually put Soft drinks and Snacks aboard for us as I recall.  If we were on the way to CA, we had to keep the aircraft as clean as was possible, because after we landed, it would then be refueled, serviced, and loaded with passengers going on trans-Pacific flights.  

 

Please, NEVER think for a minute that Flight Attendants are there for any reason but your safety. If they can, they will serve you food and drinks and try to make you as comfortable as is possible so that you enjoy your flight. 

Edited April 12, 2017 by Lanny

[Seasider]

United just announced that all passengers on the flight from Chicago will be reimbursed for the price of their tickets.

And 6 months of therapy?

[gardenmom5]

It's hard to understand how airlines are in such financial trouble and have to overbook and treat passengers like dogs when their executives are making many millions. I'm sure someone has a fancy reason for why it has to be so, but if I have a small business and I'm struggling, I don't pay myself $$$$$$$. 

 

I would want to see what everyone's pay package was.  from the ceo down to mechanics and gate agents.  AND - - what their retirement packages are like.

 

United just announced that all passengers on the flight from Chicago will be reimbursed for the price of their tickets.

 

will that be cash?  or vouchers for future flights?

and at this point - it wouldn't be enough for me had I been on that plane.

[FaithManor]

I did not know this.

My husband works for GM and is not an executive. They are very generous with their on managerial employees.

[Guest]

I did not know this. 

 

This is a start, but I wonder how far it trickles down. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

The bolded I quoted is absolutely and completely and totally true. The reason Flight Attendants are aboard a Civil Turbojet aircraft carrying paying passengers is ONLY for safety reasons. Serving food and drinks is something they normally do, time and turbulence permitting. They are there for your safety, in the unlikely event of a survivable accident. If Federal law (F.A.A. regulations called F.A.R.s) did not require them to be aboard, the airlines would not pay them to be aboard.

 

When Airline Flight Attendants go for "Recurrent Training" it is all about safety, first-aid, etc.. When airlines have an "Evacuation party", to see how fast a plane full of people can be evacuated (and bear in mind they are airline employees who know in advance they are going to do that) it is all about safety.

 

When I flew on Ferry flights, from Texas to California or back, we usually had a few Flight Attendants among the employees who were aboard the aircraft. We always had someone at each door, for safety reasons. Although we were not carrying revenue passengers, Safety is always the #1 thing. The airline usually put Soft drinks and Snacks aboard for us as I recall. If we were on the way to CA, we had to keep the aircraft as clean as was possible, because after we landed, it would then be refueled, serviced, and loaded with passengers going on trans-Pacific flights.

 

Please, NEVER think for a minute that Flight Attendants are there for any reason but your safety. If they can, they will serve you food and drinks and try to make you as comfortable as is possible so that you enjoy your flight.

I am old enough to remember the graciousness of the Pam Am stewardesses.

 

I'm not arguing against the safety aspect but there definitely was a service aspect as well - at least in the past.

[Guest]

I just read on the news that Munoz said United will no longer use police to remove "booked, paid, seated" passengers from full flights. It's insane that that even needs to be said. 

[SproutMamaK]

United just announced that all passengers on the flight from Chicago will be reimbursed for the price of their tickets.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that this payment will only be given on condition of them signing a document saying they will not speak to the press about the incident nor testify in any court of law.

[FaithManor]

I am old enough to remember the graciousness of the Pam Am stewardesses.

 

I'm not arguing against the safety aspect but there definitely was a service aspect as well - at least in the past.

This. And given how difficult it is to bring food and drink on as me these days, it is not unreasonable for airlines to provide at minimum, regular hydration when weather permits. This used to be a completely normal service on flights. Now customers are treated like carp and supposed to be thankful for it!

 

Dh and I were looking at a long weekend in Chicago for our anniversary. The best night times out of DTW were with United. Heck no! It may take longer, but we booked amtrak. Leg room, bring our own food, definitely more comfortable, and we have yet to encounter nasty customer service with them.

[TechWife]

... I had no idea until he started traveling so much a few years back that there's this whole secret world of VIP traveling and special elite flight status above silver or gold type thing. Like the article Jean posted- that apparently happens more than we know according to dh. He was listing out some of the status titles and who had them last night when I was talking to him about the whole debacle.

 

I refer to my husband's status as "Super Sparkly Purple Polka Dot" because they have so many different levels now! He has earned his by flying a bajillion miles every year. His status gets him free upgrades (when available), access  to the airline club and priority boarding. When someone travels a lot, these little things really make a difference. It can be quite fun to travel with him sometimes! Of course, I play in the club (okay, eat mostly) while he works, so he doesn't think it's as much fun as I do. 

[Lanny]

I know, right?!

 

They are making off with millions while we are dealing with the Walmartization of the airlines. 

 

Wal-Mart? No... IMO more like K-Mart or Sears as far as service, etc.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that this payment will only be given on condition of them signing a document saying they will not speak to the press about the incident nor testify in any court of law.

 

The bolded would be highly illegal.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The bolded would be highly illegal.

 

Not arguing with you but are you sure?  People do sign agreements not to sue, and that would include a class action lawsuit wouldn't it?  Do you mean that they can't sign away their rights to be witnesses in someone else's suit? 

[FaithManor]

The bolded would be highly illegal.

That probably depends on the state. In Michigan, gag orders are perfectly legal clauses to put into settlement contracts.

[gardenmom5]

I just read on the news that Munoz said United will no longer use police to remove "booked, paid, seated" passengers from full flights. It's insane that that even needs to be said. 

 

and . . in 2014 united made a filing with federal regulators *promising* all ticketed passengers would have a seat.  , - they had a ticketed passenger - and told him he could NOT have his seat (the one he was sitting in.), and he'd have to leave.  IF they had stuck to their previous promise to *federal regulators* - this never would have happened.

[Vida Winter]

These discussions are making me long for the days of flying on National, Continental, and Eastern. In those days, United and Delta were much better also. Flying used to be so civilized -- everyone dressed up, and say what you want about airline food but I loved being served the hot trays. It was my favorite part of flying.

[OneStepAtATime]

The bolded I quoted is absolutely and completely and totally true.  The reason Flight Attendants are aboard a Civil Turbojet aircraft carrying paying passengers is ONLY for safety reasons.  Serving food and drinks is something they normally do, time and turbulence permitting.  They are there for your safety, in the unlikely event of a survivable accident.  If Federal law (F.A.A. regulations called F.A.R.s) did not require them to be aboard, the airlines would not pay them to be aboard.  

 

When Airline Flight Attendants go for "Recurrent Training" it is all about safety, first-aid, etc..  When airlines have an "Evacuation party", to see how fast a plane full of people can be evacuated (and bear in mind they are airline employees who know in advance they are going to do that) it is all about safety.

 

When I flew on Ferry flights, from Texas to California or back,  we usually had a few Flight Attendants among the employees who were aboard the aircraft.  We always had someone at each door, for safety reasons. Although we were not carrying revenue passengers, Safety is always  the #1 thing. The airline usually put Soft drinks and Snacks aboard for us as I recall.  If we were on the way to CA, we had to keep the aircraft as clean as was possible, because after we landed, it would then be refueled, serviced, and loaded with passengers going on trans-Pacific flights.  

 

Please, NEVER think for a minute that Flight Attendants are there for any reason but your safety. If they can, they will serve you food and drinks and try to make you as comfortable as is possible so that you enjoy your flight. 

 

I agree.

 

I am old enough to remember the graciousness of the Pam Am stewardesses.

 

I'm not arguing against the safety aspect but there definitely was a service aspect as well - at least in the past.

yes service used to be more important and I miss those days

 

This. And given how difficult it is to bring food and drink on as me these days, it is not unreasonable for airlines to provide at minimum, regular hydration when weather permits. This used to be a completely normal service on flights. Now customers are treated like carp and supposed to be thankful for it!

 

Dh and I were looking at a long weekend in Chicago for our anniversary. The best night times out of DTW were with United. Heck no! It may take longer, but we booked amtrak. Leg room, bring our own food, definitely more comfortable, and we have yet to encounter nasty customer service with them.

 

I agree

 

 

I do want to reiterate what Lanny said, though.  Flight Attendant training does focus mostly on safety. That is their primary listed function and is what they are mostly trained to do.  Originally, in fact, many flight attendants were registered nurses.  That changed when nurses were in high demand during WWII.  However, there was a lot of competition among the airlines so hospitality was also incorporated to attract more passengers.  Their main job is still for safety.  I had a friend who was a male flight attendant.  He was HIGHLY offended when a passenger accidentally called him a waiter.  Their primary function is not to serve passengers, even though that is mainly what passengers see.

 

I do think it is important for flight attendants to keep passengers hydrated and as a person who flies I really appreciate having the option to get another beverage besides water and a snack or a meal for longer flights.  I absolutely appreciate those options and that sometimes plays into my decisions regarding which airline to choose if the prices are close.  Certainly how I am treated by flight attendants will also play into my choices regarding which airline I choose.  I do recognize, though, that flight attendants are not wait staff.  They are there for my safety.  Serving me drinks and food is a courtesy.  Safety is their job.  Which is ironic considering the United incident.  Obviously safety and Do No Harm to passengers was not taken into consideration by anyone in authority working for United on that airplane that day.

Edited April 12, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[Jean in Newcastle]

Not one single person has said that flight attendant training does not focus on safety. 

[OneStepAtATime]

Not one single person has said that flight attendant training does not focus on safety. 

No, but I know a lot of people who think they are mainly waiters/waitresses so when Lanny was making his point I was reiterating what he said.  I honestly when I was younger did not know they were there for safety primarily.  I really did think, as a teen and young adult, that their primary function was to serve beverages, provide blankets, etc.

 

I pointed it out because it is really ironic that their main function is safety for the passengers which I feel should also include protection from assault and yet they did nothing to help or deescalate the situation.  I assume they felt the police were now in authority and they should just let them handle it but it seems pretty sad that their job is safety and this passenger was not safe at all.

[slackermom]

I think handing out full cans of soda would probably streamline beverage service, so flight attendants could just hand them out and keep going, instead of spending their time trying to carefully ration one can of diet coke among three passengers.

[Jean in Newcastle]

No, but I know a lot of people who think they are mainly waiters/waitresses so when Lanny was making his point I was reiterating what he said.  I honestly when I was younger did not know they were there for safety primarily.  I really did think, as a teen and young adult, that their primary function was to serve beverages, provide blankets, etc.

 

I pointed it out because it is really ironic that their main function is safety for the passengers which I feel should also include protection from assault and yet they did nothing to help or deescalate the situation.  I assume they felt the police were now in authority and they should just let them handle it but it seems pretty sad that their job is safety and this passenger was not safe at all.

 

I think that they are both/and.  Yes, they are there for safety.  Though I think that as air travel has gotten so common, many people tune out the safety education aspect of their job.  Though I'm sure that in the case of an emergency, people don't tune them out.  But they are also there for hospitality.  We are captive travelers on the airplane.  We have physical needs esp. for flights longer than an hour or two.  Otherwise, the airlines could just stock each seat pocket with a bag of pretzels and a water bottle and be done with it.  Already on a lot of flights the safety education is done by video.  Then they could just sit there waiting for a catastrophe to happen. 

[OneStepAtATime]

I think that they are both/and.  Yes, they are there for safety.  Though I think that as air travel has gotten so common, many people tune out the safety education aspect of their job.  Though I'm sure that in the case of an emergency, people don't tune them out.  But they are also there for hospitality.  We are captive travelers on the airplane.  We have physical needs esp. for flights longer than an hour or two.  Otherwise, the airlines could just stock each seat pocket with a bag of pretzels and a water bottle and be done with it.  Already on a lot of flights the safety education is done by video.  Then they could just sit there waiting for a catastrophe to happen. 

Agreed.  

[Barb_]

The post Lanny originally responded to was making the point that In their speech at the beginning of the flight, the UA flight attended pointed out that they would only get around to food and drink "as time allows." Unless the flight was Orlando to Atlanta or something, I can't imagine time not allowing someone to hand out peanuts and a beverage. I think her point was, United's service is so bad, they are making excuses for it before the bad service even happens.

[Shelly in IL]

I don't know how to link an article on Facebook, but if you have more questions about the flight crew "deadheading" to their job, please search this article on FB " I know you're mad at United (thoughts from a Pilot wife about flight 3411"

 

This is a great article about the airlines and explaining the position the flight crew is in. I am married to an airline pilot - this was not the flight crew's fault. They are going to their job. They can't simply "drive to the other airport." There Obviously was a reason that crew needed to make it to that destination. - such as the original flight crew being over on hours by a delay or a host of other reasons.

 

Also, tickets are definitely a contract. And in that contract is the ability of airlines to pull that ticket if needed.

 

Please read the article.

[OneStepAtATime]

I don't know how to link an article on Facebook, but if you have more questions about the flight crew "deadheading" to their job, please search this article on FB " I know you're mad at United (thoughts from a Pilot wife about flight 3411"

 

This is a great article about the airlines and explaining the position the flight crew is in. I am married to an airline pilot - this was not the flight crew's fault. They are going to their job. They can't simply "drive to the other airport." There Obviously was a reason that crew needed to make it to that destination. - such as the original flight crew being over on hours by a delay or a host of other reasons.

 

Also, tickets are definitely a contract. And in that contract is the ability of airlines to pull that ticket if needed.

 

Please read the article.

I don't think anyone should blame the crew that was deadheading.  They were just trying to get to their destination.  I certainly don't.  

 

I blame the airline itself for not having a better policy in place for handling this type of situation.  Offer more incentives.  Offer cash instead of vouchers if vouchers are rejected.  And the airline should be very apologetic and recognize this is a HUGE inconvenience or in some cases a serious problem to leave that plane and miss that flight.  In the case of this particular flight the attitude of the United staff in announcing the issue was also a problem and apparently rubbed a lot of passengers the wrong way.  If they keep upping the incentives and aren't rude/aggressive about it, eventually surely someone will give up their seat.  It may take quite a few more incentives, though, to ask a passenger that has already boarded and been seated to then gather their stuff up again, exit the plane, hope they can get their luggage back in a timely fashion, find a place to stay, notify people they will not make their arrival and in this case work out whatever needs to be worked out for missing all of Monday, whether that be a job or child care or whatever.   And if there still is not a single taker there HAS to be a better option than violently removing a passenger who feels strongly that they need to get to their destination.