Updated in #1: United Airlines flight Oversold (?) in Chicago - Violent removal of passenger

[SKL]

OK so I am wondering if the security guy who pulled him out of his seat knew the reason why he was removing a passenger.

 

Maybe he thought the guy had done something wrong or made someone think he was a threat.

 

As far as the cameras - I personally would rather not have had that footage of myself all over the internet.  It would have been better for those folks to turn the videos over to the man privately or to the cops.

[SKL]

I understand the business decision of deciding the guy needed to get off the plane.

 

When/if it got physical just for business reasons, I'm pretty sure it went over a line.  At least I hope there is a line!

[PeachyDoodle]

https://twitter.com/united/status/851471781827420160

 

 

"This is an upsetting event to all of us here at United. I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers. Our team is moving with a sense of urgency to work with the authorities and conduct our own detailed review of what happened. We are also reaching out to this passenger to talk directly to him and further address and resolve this situation."

--Oscar Munoz, CEO, United Airlines

 

Well, that's one way of putting it.

 

:glare:

 

[StephanieZ]

I think this is INSANE. We have a trip booked on United in June, and this story makes me verrrrryyy nervous.

 

It is DERANGED that they would do such a thing. They could have upped the offers . . . They could have simply stated, that, "hey, we're at our max $800/1000/2000/whatver offer. We CAN NOT TAKE OFF until someone volunteers to get off the plane. . .  ". and WAITED . . . They could have done 1001 things. Instead, they manhandled a customer, violently. I'm disgusted. 

 

There are good reasons why someone would be desperate not to miss getting home on schedule. Dh is a mostly-solo veterinarian at his practice. (95% of days, there's just one vet scheduled.) The practice grosses about $3000/day most days, and typically his first day back after being gone (and having other vets cover for him), he is SLAMMED with clients who've been waiting to see him, so his first day back is often a 10 hour day, grossing 4000 or more, with maybe 15-25 clients/patients. If he couldn't get back in time, we'd still have nearly all our expenses (what do we tell our 7 staff scheduled that day to support him, who CAN NOT generate ANY significant income without a vet in hospital? Tell them to go home -- not very nice. So they'd "work" at half speed doing some cleaning and call backs . . . generating no income . . . but we'd still have 80-90% of expenses for the day. AND, WORSE, we'd have 20 or so clients -- most of them regulars who were waiting for Dr. Owner (so high maintenance clients) . . . Some of them would be very gracious about a last minute call canceling . . . others would be STEAMED and there'd always be one or two who are unreasonable and impossible to satisfy. That is the way this sort of business model works. We adapt by doing all in our power to be ultra-reliable. Dh has never, ever called off sick in 13 years ownership. We just DO NOT NOT SHOW UP. So, if this happened to dh, we'd lose about $3000 directly, and have a SHITSTORM to deal with when we got home. It would NOT be OK. 

 

I can hardly fathom how much more crucial this reliability would be for a human doctor. Can you imagine showing up for your neuro appointment for your mom with dementia (that you'd waited months for, probably) and having the DR no show? Or your oncology visit? Ugh, no. Doesn't happen!! Why doesn't it happen? Because doctors in those sorts of specialties simply NEVER EVER call off. (Ok, yes, this is hyperbolic, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that doctors in those sorts of specialties have last-minute-call-offs for ANY reason no more than a handful of times over a career. Things like your spouse dies, your kid is in ICU, you are hit by a bus . . . those sorts of things. . . Anything short of those sorts of things -- like a flight canceling -- means the DR will go rent a car and drive overnight, or drive to another airport 200 miles away, and pay any price, etc. Some professions just CAN NOT call off. Similarly, my mom was an attorney, and you never, ever, ever missed a court date. EVER. EVER. EVER. 

 

Let alone someone hurrying to a dying family member (BTDT, several times) . . . 

 

OMG, this is INSANE.

 

 

[Lanny]

Only if you're the only airline not overbooking. If we made a law to ban overbooking, then all the airlines would have the same problem, and they would make it work. Sure, flying would be more expensive, so most airlines would have to downsize, but there isn't any real reason why it's absolutely necessary to overbook. 

 

FWIW I'd rather that they keep overbooking so flights can be cheaper, but I do think they need to handle situations like these better. Like, offer more/better incentives to volunteer to give up your seat, rather than dragging a random person off the plane.

 

I doubt that you will ever see any airlines promising never to Overbook flights. The only way they could do that would be to only sell Full Fare tickets that are Non Refundable and Non Changeable. That's not going to happen.   In this case, at this time, hours after I read the first report, I do not believe THAT flight had been Overbooked.  I believe that at the last minute, when the flight was in "Departure" mode, with the people at the Gate in charge, that four (4) Deadheading employees showed up. Those are Positive Space Passengers, on company business, not people who are "Non Revenue" passengers, who fly Space Available and are the last to board and who would be the first to be removed. They may have had Reservations on that flight. They should have had reservations on that flight. 

 

Overbooking/Oversold or not, to me, the 2 videos I watched are to me astonishing.  I wonder if the people who removed that man were actually Police Officers?

 

The man who was removed violated two (2) laws which are things one MUST NEVER do:  First, he disobeyed members of the Aircraft Crew. That's a Federal crime.  Secondly, if the people who removed him were actually Police Officers, he disobeyed Police Officers, which is something one MUST NEVER do and is also a violation.

 

I believe this should  have been handled in a much more diplomatic manner and that if it had been, United would not be on the receiving end of a lot of hostile publicity.

 

I believe that because of the number of people involved (4 Deadheading employees) that they were probably Flight Attendants.  If they were sending a Cockpit Crew for one aircraft, they would send 2 people.  Not sure about that, guessing because of the number.  

[SKL]

 Anyone else wonder how many airlines will now amend their written policies to forbid forcibly removing a passenger who hasn't first been flagged as dangerous / obnoxious?  Am I alone in being amazed that this is even something that needs to be said?

 

I'm not one for boycotting over a single incident of bad judgment by one employee, but man ... I'm kinda hoping my upcoming vacation doesn't use United.

[luuknam]

The man who was removed violated two (2) laws which are things one MUST NEVER do:  First, he disobeyed members of the Aircraft Crew. That's a Federal crime.  Secondly, if the people who removed him were actually Police Officers, he disobeyed Police Officers, which is something one MUST NEVER do and is also a violation.

 

 

So, we should just roll over and let airlines abuse us because they had too many people to put on the plane? He wasn't creating a security risk. He was simply sitting in the seat he'd paid for, didn't do anything wrong, until the airline decided that offering higher incentives for someone to volunteer would be too expensive. 

[hopskipjump]

I think this is INSANE.

 

...

 

OMG, this is INSANE.

 

Agreed. These are the only words I keep thinking over and over. What the actual heck was that all about? NO reason - NO justification for that behavior. It was assault, plain and simple and I hope this guy sues United with the white-hot fury of a thousand suns.

 

[LucyStoner]

This is probably a good time to mention the United Breaks Guitars video, which now has over 16 million views on YouTube.

 

A family member had a horrible experience with budget airline Spirit Airlines this weekend.  Based on that one experience, which included shady pricing/revenue practices and a whole lot of stress, none of us will ever fly them in the future.  

 

On the up side, we LOVE Southwest.  Low prices, combined with cheerful, helpful staff.  

 

I was going to post that too.  It doesn't seem United has learned much here.  IIRC, that video caused a dip in their stock price.  

 

This gaffe is going to cost them a lot more than $800.  Hell, it's cost them way too much staff time already.  And rebooking people who missed their connections due to the delay.  

[Lanny]

This is probably a good time to mention the United Breaks Guitars video, which now has over 16 million views on YouTube.

 

A family member had a horrible experience with budget airline Spirit Airlines this weekend.  Based on that one experience, which included shady pricing/revenue practices and a whole lot of stress, none of us will ever fly them in the future.  

 

On the up side, we LOVE Southwest.  Low prices, combined with cheerful, helpful staff.  

 

My wife has a (Colombian) friend who lives in CA.  I believe that she is an expert about how to fly on Spirit. She comes down here once or twice a year on Spirit. My guess is that she carries the largest bag a woman is permitted to carry as a "Purse" and that she has clothes and shoes, etc., here in Colombia so she does not pay extra for checked or carry on bags.

 

If we were to fly on Spirit, I have no clue and it would probably end up costing us a lot more than for us to fly on an excellent airline, like Avianca or COPA.  

 

Southwest pioneered low-cost flying many years ago. The others are imitators. They began with (3 ?) airplanes, flying within TX

 

I have a very good impression of Jet Blue, but we have never flown with them. They serve several airports in Colombia, but Cali is not one of them.

[slackermom]

 

 

The man who was removed violated two (2) laws which are things one MUST NEVER do:  First, he disobeyed members of the Aircraft Crew. That's a Federal crime.  Secondly, if the people who removed him were actually Police Officers, he disobeyed Police Officers, which is something one MUST NEVER do and is also a violation.

 

I believe this should  have been handled in a much more diplomatic manner and that if it had been, United would not be on the receiving end of a lot of hostile publicity.

 

 

 

Well, then, United chose to create a situation that criminalized the passenger's subsequent behavior. 

[Seasider]

Even if the flight is overbooked, the gate agents should never have boarded that many passengers. Gate agents should have offered compensation in the gate area, preboarding, up to whatever price point it took to get a volunteer, even if it meant delaying the flight.

 

If the four person flight crew didn't make a reservation (which I hope company policy would require), and showed up after the other passengers had boarded, the flight crew should have been accommodated by other transportation.

 

Even if a civil court finds this man has no claim due to "disobeying" federal aviation laws, the financial harm to UA is done.

[hopskipjump]

Overbooking/Oversold or not, to me, the 2 videos I watched are to me astonishing.  I wonder if the people who removed that man were actually Police Officers?

 

The man who was removed violated two (2) laws which are things one MUST NEVER do:  First, he disobeyed members of the Aircraft Crew. That's a Federal crime.  Secondly, if the people who removed him were actually Police Officers, he disobeyed Police Officers, which is something one MUST NEVER do and is also a violation.

 

I believe this should  have been handled in a much more diplomatic manner and that if it had been, United would not be on the receiving end of a lot of hostile publicity.

 

 

:iagree:

 

The common assumption by law enforcement and (some) others that a violation of any law equals and justifies a violent response is utterly alarming.

 

In this man's place, I would have been asking to see "a manager" at that point - it just would NOT have computed in my brain that they were actual policemen (or security) and that they were going to violently, physically drag me across the aisle out of my seat.

 

There were a thousand, diplomatic, good-for-business options that United could have employed. That they chose to handle the situation in this manner is ... what's a word beyond shocking? My mental thesaurus is too distraught to think of it right now. Why? Why did they choose this option? It's bizarre!! :/

[Lanny]

Anyone else notice this?

 

"After our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate.

"We apologise for the overbook situation."

 

Overbooking is what they apologize for, not manhandling a perfectly innocent guy.   

My opinion is that him being a doctor with patients to see in the morning is immaterial.   If he were a retired guy that was just sick and tired of being away from his own bed, I'd feel the same.  

 

Yes I noticed that this morning when I read the first article.  That really sucks. "Sorry about the flight was Oversold." NOTHING about the manner in which that passenger was removed from the aircraft.  More bad PR for UA.  

 

The way he was removed from the aircraft is what they should have apologized for.

[Seasider]

Yes I noticed that this morning when I read the first article. That really sucks. "Sorry about the flight was Oversold." NOTHING about the manner in which that passenger was removed from the aircraft. More bad PR for UA.

 

The way he was removed from the aircraft is what they should have apologized for.

I am wondering if the airline is already attempting to posture itself apart from airport security, passing the blame off to them for the actual physical altercation. Trying to reduce liability, iykwim.

[Seasider]

And hey Lanny, thanks for posting such an interesting topic as I sit and wait while dd is participating in an outsourced activity!

Edited April 10, 2017 by Seasider

[gardenmom5]

 

Southwest pioneered low-cost flying many years ago. The others are imitators. They began with (3 ?) airplanes, flying within TX

 

I have a very good impression of Jet Blue, but we have never flown with them. They serve several airports in Colombia, but Cali is not one of them.

I've flown jet blue a number of times when my girls were in school in NY.  very nice airlines - always been pleased with them.

I hate southwest's cattle car approach.  I don't want to have to fight for seats when we have a large group with more than half children.  they may have changed that - but I'm done with them for that reason.

 

:iagree:

 

The common assumption by law enforcement and (some) others that a violation of any law equals and justifies a violent response is utterly alarming.

 

In this man's place, I would have been asking to see "a manager" at that point - it just would NOT have computed in my brain that they were actual policemen (or security) and that they were going to violently, physically drag me across the aisle out of my seat.

 

There were a thousand, diplomatic, good-for-business options that United could have employed. That they chose to handle the situation in this manner is ... what's a word beyond shocking? My mental thesaurus is too distraught to think of it right now. Why? Why did they choose this option? It's bizarre!! :/

idiotic

moronic

stupid

dumb

ill-advised

shortsighted

obtuse

out-to-lunch

imbecillic

doltist

dense

unthinking

 

somseone on twitter "fixed" the ceo's statement.  (from the horsehockey it was . . .  to a more "truthful" version)

 

 

 

 

this is an upsetting event to all of us here at united. 

I apologize for having to physically assault this customer. 

Our team is moving with a sense of urgency to work with the

authorities and find a way to not take any responsibility

for what happened.   we are also reaching out to this passenger

to talk directly to him and further address and resolve this

inevitable legal action and PR nightmare.

 

-oscar munoz, ceo, united airlines.

 

 

and another one.  I've censored it.

 

This is an upsetting cluster____ to all of us here at united.  I apologize for having a dude beaten for no good reason.  Our team is moving with a sense of terror and dread to work with our PR team and probably fire a guy or whatever.  We are also reaching out to this passenger to talk directly to him and offer him a free ticket in exchange for getting knocked the ___ out.

 

Oscar munoz, ceo, united airlines.

Edited April 10, 2017 by gardenmom5

[FaithManor]

somseone on twitter "fixed" the ceo's statement. (from the horsehockey it was . . . to a more "truthful" version)

 

 

 

 

this is an upsetting event to all of us here at united.

I apologize for having to physically assault this customer.

Our team is moving with a sense of urgency to work with the

authorities and find a way to not take any responsibility

for what happened. we are also reaching out to this passenger

to talk directly to him and further address and resolve this

inevitable legal action and PR nightmare.

 

-oscar munoz, ceo, united airlines.

Exactly this! And because CEO's and their ilk care not a dang thing about how they treat the other humans on the planet only about how much more money they can make and how much they can get away with legally, the only way to make a difference is for them to be legally and financially pantsed in the metaphorical playground.

 

So like the barn dog in a Foghorn Leghorn cartoon, I hope said passenger picks up that rooster by the tail feathers and takes a board to its behind!

[slackermom]

This is the police department's statement:

 

Editing to add, according to an article posted further down thread, the Chicago Police Department has "retreated" from this statement.

 

"Today the department retreated from the statement, referring all enquiries to the Aviation Department. " 
 

Edited April 10, 2017 by slackermom

[JoJosMom]

This is probably a good time to mention the United Breaks Guitars video, which now has over 16 million views on YouTube.

 

A family member had a horrible experience with budget airline Spirit Airlines this weekend.  Based on that one experience, which included shady pricing/revenue practices and a whole lot of stress, none of us will ever fly them in the future.  

 

On the up side, we LOVE Southwest.  Low prices, combined with cheerful, helpful staff.  

 

I started humming that this morning when I read the article on a new site.  Truly, I cannot imagine how United could have handled this any worse, short of them shooting the passenger and dragging his body off the plane.  Unreal.

Edited April 10, 2017 by JoJosMom

[Seasider]

This is the police department's statement:

Do y'all feel the linked videos support this description? Of course I realize videos can be misleading, but I'm wondering how this report will be received.

[forty-two]

:iagree:

 

The common assumption by law enforcement and (some) others that a violation of any law equals and justifies a violent response is utterly alarming.

 

In this man's place, I would have been asking to see "a manager" at that point - it just would NOT have computed in my brain that they were actual policemen (or security) and that they were going to violently, physically drag me across the aisle out of my seat.

 

There were a thousand, diplomatic, good-for-business options that United could have employed. That they chose to handle the situation in this manner is ... what's a word beyond shocking? My mental thesaurus is too distraught to think of it right now. Why? Why did they choose this option? It's bizarre!! :/

It sounds like not realizing there was a problem (needing to accommodate 4 deadhead crew members) until they'd already had all the passengers board the plane, so the presumable "usual" method of not boarding *any* passengers till they sort out the too-many-people problem was already not an option by the time they knew there was a problem. At that point, there's no good solutions, only least-bad, and I can see starting with asking for volunteers. But going to involuntary bumping over better bribes or finding alternate transportation for the crew - it sounds like they screwed up by the numbers on that. It was probably official policy, but policy that probably assumed people weren't already *on* the plane and needing to be deplaned. And then calling for police to remove a passenger who refused to listen to flight attendants is also probably policy - especially since the instruction he was refusing was to leave. And the police seemed to assume the whole thing was beyond de-escalation when they arrived and so didn't bother. Obviously in retrospect this was *not* the least-worst option. But "what went wrong?" seems more structural in nature - each individual decision in the chain was policy, but together they added up into something disastrous - than being anyone's conscious decision to do something obviously against common sense.

 

I really don't know what to do once you've gotten yourselves into the situation of needing to involuntarily bump already-boarded passengers for unrelated-to-the-passenger reasons. There's no good choices then. But the automatic escalation that happens when "arguing about being bumped" becomes "refusing to listen to a flight attendant" becomes "getting the police called on you to forcibly remove you from the plane" - I don't know if there's a reliable way to stop the process in its tracks once it begins. Or if the only sure way is to avoid getting to that point in the first place.

[JoJosMom]

https://twitter.com/united/status/851471781827420160

 

 

Well, that's one way of putting it.

 

:glare:

 

Gosh, that's super sad.  It was "an upsetting event to all of [them] at United."  :huh:

 

What genius in PR allowed THAT little gem to go out?

[gardenmom5]

Exactly this! And because CEO's and their ilk care not a dang thing about how they treat the other humans on the planet only about how much more money they can make and how much they can get away with legally, the only way to make a difference is for them to be legally and financially pantsed in the metaphorical playground.

 

So like the barn dog in a Foghorn Leghorn cartoon, I hope said passenger picks up that rooster by the tail feathers and takes a board to its behind!

I agree that ceos and other c-levels tend to be shortsighted about what the worker bees actually do to benefit the company - but this was done by worker bees who screwed up.

 

It sounds like not realizing there was a problem (needing to accommodate 4 deadhead crew members) until they'd already had all the passengers board the plane, so the presumable "usual" method of not boarding *any* passengers till they sort out the too-many-people problem was already not an option by the time they knew there was a problem. At that point, there's no good solutions, only least-bad, and I can see starting with asking for volunteers. But going to involuntary bumping over better bribes or finding alternate transportation for the crew - it sounds like they screwed up by the numbers on that. It was probably official policy, but policy that probably assumed people weren't already *on* the plane and needing to be deplaned. And then calling for police to remove a passenger who refused to listen to flight attendants is also probably policy - especially since the instruction he was refusing was to leave. And the police seemed to assume the whole thing was beyond de-escalation when they arrived and so didn't bother. Obviously in retrospect this was *not* the least-worst option. But "what went wrong?" seems more structural in nature - each individual decision in the chain was policy, but together they added up into something disastrous - than being anyone's conscious decision to do something obviously against common sense.

 

I really don't know what to do once you've gotten yourselves into the situation of needing to involuntarily bump already-boarded passengers for unrelated-to-the-passenger reasons. There's no good choices then. But the automatic escalation that happens when "arguing about being bumped" becomes "refusing to listen to a flight attendant" becomes "getting the police called on you to forcibly remove you from the plane" - I don't know if there's a reliable way to stop the process in its tracks once it begins. Or if the only sure way is to avoid getting to that point in the first place.

 

they could - and should - have increased the incentives to voluntarily bump.  and in hindsight - that would have been way way way cheaper than this little episode will cost them.  even if this guy loses a lawsuit (which will cost them well over that $800 they offered to bump someone) - their brand will suffer because people won't want to fly them.

they handled it extremely poorly - and they're handling the aftermath poorly as well.

[Lanny]

I am out of "Likes" for today, but I've read all the comments up to post #119.    I hope the man is OK. As I recall, United (UA) merged with Continental (CO) and that is why we no longer have nonstop service from Cali, Colombia to Houston.  Continental was a much better airline than United was, but this is how it ended up.  Continental was bankrupt and United is the surviving carrier. Horrible as it is. 

 

I agree that the UA person(s) at the Gate should have sorted this out before allowing any passengers to board the aircraft.  However, it is also possible, that at the last minute, they discovered there was a horrible Crew Scheduling problem and that they had to get those Deadheading employees to Louisville last night, or the flight out of Louisville (this morning) would have been without a crew.

 

Certainly they could have upped the offer to volunteers to make it more attractive.  Someone with flexibility would have taken them up on it.

 

I no showed an airport hotel near the Pittsburgh airport, where my car was parked, because I misconnected coming out of Mexico. Mexicana put me up in a Courtyard and when I called the property in Pittsburgh, he told me not to worry. Very nice of them.  

 

I no showed a flight from Bogota to Cali, because I was in the U.S. Embassy much later than I thought I would be there. By the time I got back to the hotel, threw things into my suitcase, checked out of the hotel, and got to the airport, the flight had departed. The Avianca ticket agent told me I could pay more and go on the next flight, or I could wait and not pay extra.  I called my wife and ate Dinner in the Bogota airport and took the later flight.

 

Neighbors down the street, she was in Bogota with 2 or 3 daughters. I think 2.  She got to the airport late. Same thing with Avianca. They let them fly on a later flight, without paying extra.

 

Multiply those experiences ,by many many many  thousands daily, in the USA, and you get one reason why overbooking is a necessity for airlines.

[shawthorne44]

I thought of something else.   I've been in the situation of sitting on the plane when they ask for volunteers.   It might not be entirely logical but my price to be bumped is higher after I get my butt settled in the seat.   Sitting on the plane is just a big mental jump closer to home.  

[FaithManor]

This is the police department's statement:

Not well. Chicago PD does not exact have a reputation for being "honest Joe".

 

At some point, it is ridiculous to put the onus on civilians to de-esculate these situations as well as put up with some significant abuse. The reality is that buying a ticket with the airlines is a contract, a legally binding contract to deliver you to X destination in X time frame so long as circumstances are not beyond their control. This was a total contract violation on United's part and calling cops because of their own WRONGdoing and determined to evict the passenger with whom they violated said contract for no other reason their own damn greed and poor planning should not be tolerated period, the end, and I don't care if the passenger dropped a couple of f bombs when he was yelling. Enough is enough! People are sick of being treated like colossal crap by the airline industry. United should go down for this in a HUGE financial and very public way as a warning to the other airlines to pull their crap together and start respecting their customers.

Edited April 10, 2017 by FaithManor

[FaithManor]

And another thought. American flies into Louisville too so they could have purchased tickets on another airline for their crew.

[lovinmyboys]

I agree united could have handled the situation much better. However, I don't really know that United can be held responsible for the police officers assault. I had at first assumed they were airline/airport security. If I call the cops and they come assault someone, I don't want the blame for it. The whole thing is just completely crazy.

[FaithManor]

Oh I guess I will tell you about what United did to our Dd. Seven months pregnant they screwed up similarly and over sold, big delay at the gate so took of late, and got in to O Hare which is huge and a pain in the butt to navigate, only 30 minutes before her connecting flight. They refused to hold their other flight for her, refused to get a cart down there to take her to her gate. 7 months pregnant they made her run, and two employees of theirs made fun of her "Look at her waddle-run" as she went by.

 

She made it and boarded, then they screwed up the meals, didn't have enough to go around, and though they had first class meals available, refused to give anything but beverages - not even pretzels or peanuts - to the passengers who did not get their meal which included Dd.

 

On the return flight, they again screwed up with overlooking, took an hour to sort it out, leaving her stranded at 11 pm in O Hare and refused to give her hotel and food vouchers. She had to pay to stay out of her own pocket, eat on her own dime over their own incompetence. They had loaded all the passengers' luggage and refused to unload it so everyone was stranded without their bags. They put everyone on delta flights the next day, but sent the plane with their luggage to another airport so everyone waited several days for their bags to be shipped home.

 

She did a detailed letter of complaint for which she received a basically shove it where the sun doesn't shine response!

 

The Delta crew was wonderful, and their airline offered perks/points etc.to the United passengers. We have only flown Delta or American domestically since. I make it a life goal to tell as many people as possible not to fly with United.

 

Oh and since her maternity clothes were all tied up with United for several days of lost luggage, Delta told her to go spend $300.00 on clothes to tide her over, and send them the receipts because they would reimburse her, and recover from United! She did exactly that and had the check back within ten days of submitting the form and attaching scans of the receipts. Good job Delta. $@#!_:;$@+#?$@ United!

[forty-two]

I agree united could have handled the situation much better. However, I don't really know that United can be held responsible for the police officers assault. I had at first assumed they were airline/airport security. If I call the cops and they come assault someone, I don't want the blame for it. The whole thing is just completely crazy.

 

Not that this excuses police overreaction, but I wonder if there's a significant mismatch between civilian organizations having a policy of calling the police at the *first* sign of problems - "taking no chances" - while the police are assuming they are called as a *last* resort, when authorized-only-for-police force is required.  And so you get this huge gray area of problems that *might* go bad but could also probably be de-escalated by either police or the civilians involved - except that too much of the time neither civilians nor the police see "de-escalating charged situations that *might* (but haven't yet) end in violence" as an integral part of their "job".  Civilians are trained to call the police at the first sign things might go bad, and the police go in expecting to use force to resolve the situation, instead of de-escalating the situation so force isn't needed.  That's a structural problem that's not going away anytime soon :(.

[gardenmom5]

I agree united could have handled the situation much better. However, I don't really know that United can be held responsible for the police officers assault. I had at first assumed they were airline/airport security. If I call the cops and they come assault someone, I don't want the blame for it. The whole thing is just completely crazy.

they are AIRPORT police.

 

and . . . the airport cop has been suspended.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4396986/Passengers-film-moment-police-drag-man-United-plane.html

 

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/video-appears-to-show-passenger-being-removed-from-united-flight/amp/

 

 

eta: the aviation security dept is in charge of airport security - not the chicago pd.

Edited April 10, 2017 by gardenmom5

[Pawz4me]

I agree united could have handled the situation much better. However, I don't really know that United can be held responsible for the police officers assault. I had at first assumed they were airline/airport security. If I call the cops and they come assault someone, I don't want the blame for it. The whole thing is just completely crazy.

 

It should never have escalated anywhere close to the point that police or airport security or whoever they were had to be called.

 

United just blew this one all the way around.

[FaithManor]

I agree united could have handled the situation much better. However, I don't really know that United can be held responsible for the police officers assault. I had at first assumed they were airline/airport security. If I call the cops and they come assault someone, I don't want the blame for it. The whole thing is just completely crazy.

I think he can ultimately, legally get damages from United because their own brilliant incompetence and hostile treatment of the situation led to being injured. Had they used even a tiny portion of brain cells, the whole thing could have been avoided.

[lovinmyboys]

I have no problem with the passenger suing United and I hope he wins. I do think there were a million things they could have done to avoid the situation. But it seems like everything they did was legal-overbooking and then randomly selecting people to be "reaccomodated" and then calling the police to remove the man who refused to "voluntarily reaccomodate". I don't know that they could have reasonably thought the police would literally drag the man out. But, who knows what they said when they called the police. Maybe the officers were told the guy was dangerous.

[Joules]

I think he can ultimately, legally get damages from United because their own brilliant incompetence and hostile treatment of the situation led to being injured. Had they used even a tiny portion of brain cells, the whole thing could have been avoided.

 

I think I would be concerned about the safety of flying with a crew with such a tiny portion of brain cells.  I'm sticking with Delta.

[lovinmyboys]

I think I would be concerned about the safety of flying with a crew with such a tiny portion of brain cells. I'm sticking with Delta.

That is one of the first things I thought. I was kind of surprised everyone got back on the plane. I think at that point I would have volunteered to go on another plane. They can't handle overbooking right, and they want me to put my life in their hands?

[JoJosMom]

Looks like Royal Jordanian Airlines is scoring some points off of United's stupidity:  https://twitter.com/RoyalJordanian/status/851526371327311873

Edited April 10, 2017 by JoJosMom

[snowbeltmom]

 

 

I have a very good impression of Jet Blue, but we have never flown with them. They serve several airports in Colombia, but Cali is not one of them.

I just flew Jet Blue for the 1st time last week.  I was shocked at how much more leg room I had compared to every single other carrier I have flown.  They also provide an individual tv at each seat.

 

I hate to fly, but when I need to fly in the future, I will be flying with Jet Blue. 

[Murphy101]

Do y'all feel the linked videos support this description? Of course I realize videos can be misleading, but I'm wondering how this report will be received.

I readily question that too, bc although there's the gal saying OMG repeatedly about it, towards the end, the man right next to her is saying something that sounds like "good job! Boot him off!" I think? I can't quite make his words out.

 

But even if the guy was not being particuliarly peaceful, we can see in the video that he is not being physically violent and that the way the cops drag him out - to my mind it was extremely lucky no other passenger got hurt. They did not have physical control of that man. And they should be trained in how to get someone off the plane without risking other passengers - yes? It looks like he was one flail away from doing serious damage to a fellow passenger with the way they were literally dragging and pulling him about. Even if he was not being cooperative, dropping him to wear he bloodied his head on another passengers armrest across the aisle comes across like the old cop joke of saying the suspect "accidently" *winkwink* smacked his head while getting in the car.

 

And by the way - wouldn't you just love to be the gal who gets to ride the next couple hours with a blood smeared armrest?

 

Idk. I'm just not seeing how this was properly handled even if he wasn't a polite gentleman about it.

[shawthorne44]

Looks like Royal Jordanian Airlines is scoring some points off of United's stupidity:  https://twitter.com/RoyalJordanian/status/851526371327311873

 

That is an absolute hoot!   I like to see other companies taking advantage.   

Like in the previous post where the pregnant daughter ended up flying on Delta.  The contrast made them look even better.  

 

I hope United goes down for this.   I wouldn't think that it is were the only problem.   I thought the same when AA had to bailed out on the "Too Big to Fail" silliness.   Someone smarter would have bought the planes and hired whatever top% of the personnel that was needed to go along with them.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Do y'all feel the linked videos support this description? Of course I realize videos can be misleading, but I'm wondering how this report will be received.

I did not hear him cursing at all, not even once, but maybe before the video started.  Still, if he was cursing before the video started you would think he would continue to curse once they smashed his face and dragged him down the aisle.  He was not resisting as they dragged him down the aisle nor was he cursing.   The description from the airlines is seriously questionable for me, based on the video evidence available.

 

I readily question that too, bc although there's the gal saying OMG repeatedly about it, towards the end, the man right next to her is saying something that sounds like "good job! Boot him off!" I think? I can't quite make his words out.

 

But even if the guy was not being particuliarly peaceful, we can see in the video that he is not being physically violent and that the way the cops drag him out - to my mind it was extremely lucky no other passenger got hurt. They did not have physical control of that man. And they should be trained in how to get someone off the plane without risking other passengers - yes? It looks like he was one flail away from doing serious damage to a fellow passenger with the way they were literally dragging and pulling him about. Even if he was not being cooperative, dropping him to wear he bloodied his head on another passengers armrest across the aisle comes across like the old cop joke of saying the suspect "accidently" *winkwink* smacked his head while getting in the car.

 

And by the way - wouldn't you just love to be the gal who gets to ride the next couple hours with a blood smeared armrest?

 

Idk. I'm just not seeing how this was properly handled even if he wasn't a polite gentleman about it.

This is a very good point.  They do not have him secured.  If he had been violent or even verbally threatening then they REALLY messed up in not doing something to physically secure him so he would have no possibility of injuring another passenger while potentially fighting the officers.  If he had not been threatening at all they still should have secured him just in case he became violent while being dragged off the plane.  Another passenger could easily have been hurt.

 

Because they didn't do more to secure him, and in the videos I have seen he did not react aggressively or even curse, I tend to think that he was not cursing to begin with and made no aggressive moves before they forcibly evicted him from his seat.  Either way, the way it was handled was poor.

 

As for whether another passenger was saying they supported his being removed they may simply have only cared about getting the plane off the ground, didn't care at all about how fairly the other passenger was being treated and felt that his refusal to get off the plane was inconveniencing those that had not been randomly chosen to be removed.  It may have had nothing to do with that passenger feeling like the man being removed was behaving in an inappropriate manner as in violent or rude or whatever.

[Carrie12345]

They do it because the entire U.S. airline industry operates within such tight margins that it's nearly impossible for them to keep their heads above water without overbooking. It's a classic example used in business classes. Google "Porter's five forces airline industry" if you want to see how it works. 

 

(Not saying what United did was right, though)

 

I'm confused.  If 200 people buy tickets and 10 don't show up, how is money lost?

 

If I pay $250 for a ticket and you give me $400 to take a different flight, how is money saved?

[Storygirl]

I can't make a link for some reason, but there is an article on people.com with some additional information. It says they disembarked the passengers (many evidently left in protest), cleaned up the plane, and allowed the man back on to continue his flight.

 

The whole incident is disturbing.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Storygirl

[Reefgazer]

United Airlines employee training video released:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/64kutb/new_united_airlines_training_video/

 

But seriously, what happened to that man was awful.

[Lanny]

I just flew Jet Blue for the 1st time last week.  I was shocked at how much more leg room I had compared to every single other carrier I have flown.  They also provide an individual tv at each seat.

 

I hate to fly, but when I need to fly in the future, I will be flying with Jet Blue. 

 

I need to send another message to Jet Blue, asking them to look again at adding service to our home airport (Cali, Colombia/CLO).    With Avianca we have Individual TVs and they provide the headphones to Coach passengers if the flight is long enough that they are showing a movie.

[kroe1]

So, I had no idea, but, evidently 40,000 people are involuntarily rerouted per year. I guess the other 39,999 do not have to make a trip to the emergency room afterwards. While it is about 1% of those flying, the numbers seem really high. I would really be angry if someone told me I had to get off my flight. And, because of my temper, I would probably curse and get my head smashed like this gentleman. I Think a few curse words should be allowed when someone makes you get off your flight.

[JoJosMom]

United Airlines employee training video released:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/64kutb/new_united_airlines_training_video/

 

But seriously, what happened to that man was awful.

 

:lol:

[Murphy101]

I can't make a link for some reason, but there is an article on people.com with some additional information. It says they disembarked the passengers (many evidently left in protest), cleaned up the plane, and allowed the man back on to continue his flight.

 

The whole incident is disturbing.

Oh for bleep sake. That's just all kinds of extra stupid that darwins theory should have weeded out by now.

I'm confused.  If 200 people buy tickets and 10 don't show up, how is money lost?

 

If I pay $250 for a ticket and you give me $400 to take a different flight, how is money saved?

 

The idea is that if you have a 200 seat plane, the airlines sell 210 (more or less) seats on that flight, assuming that 10 people with miss the flight, so you can sell more seats than you actually have capacity for.  In the (hopefully rare) case where all 210 show up, then you need to pay them extra not to fly, but the goal is for that to be rare, so you come out ahead in the usual case.  

 

It isn't that money is lost, per se, but that empty seats represent extra tickets that could have been sold, even if that means selling the same seat twice.

 

Personally, I think this should be illegal.  If I buy a non-refundable ticket that can't be reused if, say, I oversleep and miss my flight, my reservation should be a reservation.