How far do YOUR convictions go?????

[Heather in Neverland]

A friend of mine sent me to a link with a documentary about WalMart called "The High Cost of Low Price". Maybe I live under a rock but I had never heard of it before and I CRIED MY EYES OUT while watching it. It made me want to go out and burn down all the Walmarts!!!

 

Only one problem...dh is a manager at Walmart and they might frown on that. I am not naive. Deep down I knew that all that nasty stuff was true, I just tried really hard not to think about it. Now that I am thinking about it, I am really bugged by the fact that dh works in a company like that. I have this somewhat irrational desire for him to quit on principal (not that Walmart would care).

 

But here's the problem...how many companies out there are NOT like Walmart? I've read all the nasty stuff about Target (one of my favorite stores) and about sweatshops and all the outsourcing this country does, etc. But what we are supposed to do?

 

My convictions tell me to take a stand but the economy and my wallet say "go to Walmart, it's cheaper".

 

I heard a commercial for some stock broker company that can take a look at your investments and tell you which ones are contributing to causes you don't believe in. I don't think I want to know. By the time I get done cutting out of my life all the companies who treat their employees badly, make them live off poverty wages, and give money to causes I am against, I'll be living naked in a box somewhere.

 

What's a girl to do? How do you all handle this?

[TravelingChris]

Those documentaries don't show the girls and boys alternative- it often is prostitution and sex slavery. I don't like children working long hours in bad conditions but I think the idea of exploitation for sex or starvation is worse.

[King Alfred Academy]

 

I have this somewhat irrational desire for him to quit on principal (not that Walmart would care).

 

 

 

I think this statement hit the nail right on the head. They don't care. If they did, then they would do business differently.

[caitlinsmom]

I understand your pain! I have the same issue. Where do I decide to let my convictions lack for the sake of convience? That just doesnt seem right to me.

I wont shop at Wal-Mart, EVER. I have a major issue with them. They arent cheaper at all and the few times in the last 5 years I've had (like someone else was driving and decided that is where we were stopping) to shop there, I have spent usually double.

 

I pick and choose, it's the best I can do. I choose not to shop at Wal-Mart, eat at fast food places, or buy anything Nestle. These I am firm on. When I can, I buy organic and local shops. Sometimes I can somtimes I cant.

[Heather in Neverland]

I understand your pain! I have the same issue. Where do I decide to let my convictions lack for the sake of convience? That just doesnt seem right to me.

I wont shop at Wal-Mart, EVER. I have a major issue with them. They arent cheaper at all and the few times in the last 5 years I've had (like someone else was driving and decided that is where we were stopping) to shop there, I have spent usually double.

 

I pick and choose, it's the best I can do. I choose not to shop at Wal-Mart, eat at fast food places, or buy anything Nestle. These I am firm on. When I can, I buy organic and local shops. Sometimes I can somtimes I cant.

 

Oh no...not Nestle too! Don't tell me, I don't want to know.

[laughing lioness]

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. I just finished "The 100 Mile Diet" and while I admire the authors there is no way that I can commit the time and money that they did to do what they did. We are a family of 7 who spends $100 a week for food and all of our household supplies. I do appreciate their "fasted life-style" and we do live that in many areas (see above grocery budget).

My dh has turned down and resigned from jobs that have gone against our principles. This has resulted in severe economic hardship for our family. People think we're crazy but we've had some amazing miraculous fruit in our lives as a result. Short term hardship for long-term vision. My bil (a stock broker) who is wealthy by the standards of many can't fathom why we live the way that we do but my dh (his bro) is the first person he called 2 weeks ago when the walls came tumbling down asking, "how do you deal with life when your security ($) is gone??? He is the first person he called when his dd was diagnosed with inoperable brain damage.

Re: WalMart and Target specifically. I've gone to WalMart maybe 4 times in the last 5 years. Target, once. I can get what we need/want in many other places, usually for less in terms of time, money and effort and we are not tempted to buy clutter that we'll send to Savers later.

Our convictions go deep.

[melissel]

It's very hard. I struggle with the same things. I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart in a few years, and I hope I never have to again--for many reasons, not just those particular business practices. To really live your convictions takes a complete lifestyle revision for most. I'm taking it step by step and changing what I can, a bit at a time. I couldn't do it all at once, though I tried--it made me crazy with guilt and paranoia. We can't save the world, but we can take baby steps toward making it better.

[Remudamom]

I haven't seen the video, but we shop at Walmart 2/3 times a week. There's no where else to shop here.

[melissel]

I haven't seen the video, but we shop at Walmart 2/3 times a week. There's no where else to shop here.

 

That's the other thing. I'm grateful that we're in an area where we have lots of options.

[hsmamainva]

I try NOT to shop at Wal-Mart. I worked in one and I know their practices more than I'd like to!

 

And, we're 25 miles from the nearest Wal-Mart...but it's only 2-3 more miles further to reach Target! Since we're driving that far anyway, I just go another 5-10 minutes more and shop at Target.

 

I much prefer Target anyway! Their selection is better, their salespeople are nicer, and the store is cleaner!

[Parrothead]

I haven't seen the video, but we shop at Walmart 2/3 times a week. There's no where else to shop here.

We have no option either. There is no place close to buy anything other than basic groceries. Kids birthday party invitations have to be sent 3 weeks in advance to give invitees a chance to go buy a card. Anything we want or need to buy we must :auto: a minimum of an two and a half hours (round trip) on a good day in the summer. You can imagine how long a one takes in the winter.

 

So what else would I do? That is one thing I really wish this town would push, but the way the tax system is set up in Maine we are lucky to get big box stores that can afford to do business in the state.

[Kay in Cal]

Yeah, I'm a Target shopper too... I do occasionally go to Walmart, but I have to be pretty desperate and have no other alternatives.

 

Costco also is a cheap store that has great a ethical/worker's rights record.

[hsmamainva]

Yeah, I'm a Target shopper too... I do occasionally go to Walmart, but I have to be pretty desperate and have no other alternatives.

 

Costco also is a cheap store that has great a ethical/worker's rights record.

 

Ohhhhh!!! I love Costco!!!!

 

Actually, our Costco is in between Wal-Mart and Target (directionally, at least!)

 

I love to go there...but only during the week during the day. Saturdays are just too crowded.

 

I love their meat prices!!!

Edited October 24, 2008 by hsmamainva

[Moxie]

Watch this video. It is about what happend to children in Bangladesh when they were forced out of working in the textile industry.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/09/28/what.matters.dust/

 

I don't love Wal-Mart but I think it is part of a complicated issue. I don't believe everything I see in any documentary.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Moxie1

[Julie in Austin]

It's very true that Wal-Mart is a bottom-of-the-barrel kind of place. But I think you have to follow that logic through: they offer people--in their stores and through their suppliers--crummy jobs. But why would anyone take those jobs? Because the alternative is worse.

 

My great-grandmother came to this country with nothing and worked in a sweatshop in the 20s. Why? Because it was the best job she could get. If people had refused to buy sweat-shop-made goods, what would she have done?

 

I do almost all of my shopping at Wal-Mart and I do it without apology. I don't particularly care for their aesthetics, but I do appreciate the convenience and the prices. I'm also aware of the fact that in the small town my parents live in, part-time school-teachers pick up shifts there because it is literally the only part-time job in town with health benefits. Further, I appreciate the service that they do to the poor by providing low prices: there's a reason that I see women there dressed as hotel cleaners and men there dressed for work at lawn care or construction companies: it is a cheap and convenient place to shop.

 

This doesn't mean I think they are perfect, but I do think that the self-flagellation over shopping there or the avoidance of it needs to be carefully considered.

[hornblower]

I don't shop at WalMart. I don't buy Nestle products. I try very hard to buy things made in countries where I believe there are good labour protection and consumer safety laws. It does usually mean spending more, but I prefer to have fewer but better quality things. I try to buy as little as I can anyway because I'm actually really cheap :001_smile:

 

I realize that I'm fortunate to not be really struggling financially & that for many people, this 'pickiness' is a luxury which is out of reach.

 

We had an interesting series of discussions a few years ago with a friend who was considering taking a position with a large tobacco company. My friend is a non-smoker and actually very in favour of the Canadian public health anti smoking campaigns. He needed the job but in the end, he ended up not pursuing that position - we called it the 'merchant of death' job - and chose to wait and keep looking for a different job. It's interesting to think about where our 'lines in the sand' are....

 

If times were really tough & my kids were starving or needing medicines, I know I would do a lot of things which are unsavoury to me now, if it meant providing for them.

[Jennefer@SSA]

Okay I have to ask....why not Nestle?

 

I am familiar with the Wal-Mart issues but never heard anything about Nestle until tonight.

 

Anyone care to fill me in?

 

TIA!

Edited October 24, 2008 by Jennefer@SSA
capitalization

[hornblower]

Okay I have to ask....why not Nestle?

 

 

 

http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/boycott/nestlefree.html

 

Briefly, their continued undermining of breastfeeding, particularly in countries where not breastfeeding spells an increase infant mortality rates.

[emeraldjoy]

I am pretty sure, although do have an immediate link, that NESTLE also participates pretty heavily in severe child slave labour practices in Southern parts of Africa in their cocoa plants. Also, again no cite but pretty sure, they were big supporters of Aparteid as well.

Might be worth looking into a bit more, just food for thought.

Emerald

[emeraldjoy]

I really appreciate this topic; tis something I ponder so, so much.

 

Our final straw was coming home from a 6 month trip through South East Asia (Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myamar, Laos) and needing something where Wal-mart was the easiest place to stop. It truly was a spiritual experience that I haven't yet found the right words for but I have not stepped foot in one again. All of the plastic and piles and piles and piles of unecessary stuff (mostly throw-away) that I just could not make any sense out of in my head and heart as I was picturing the momma who only could offer her kids gas (huffing) to ease their hunger pains. Everything about the store felt so wrong, but not because it was Wal-mart, per se, but because it epotomized a country with a lot of backwards priorities.

 

This is my experience and I feel blessed to have had it; it is not a standard I require or expect from others who have not seen what I have; I can't judge...boy oh howdy am I learning that over and over and over again. I feel a deep responsibility though, because of what I have seen. I cannot forget, I just can't and so my convictions about some things go very, very deep.

 

However, sometimes I just wonder does it matter, really? Often I feel alone in my endeavors and lose hope while gaining nothing but a deep sadness. Frankly I am not as much worried about the current presidential to do as I am about pop culture, consumerism, materialism, and a general trend toward egocentrism.

 

Just sort of a rant but does not even touch the very, very tip of the iceburg as far as the thinking and sould searching I put into "convictions" and such.

 

Emerald

[newlifemom]

This is totally off topic, but Emerald, I love your avatar(?) It is beautiful!:001_smile:

[Alenee]

I really appreciate this topic; tis something I ponder so, so much.

 

Our final straw was coming home from a 6 month trip through South East Asia (Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myamar, Laos) and needing something where Wal-mart was the easiest place to stop. It truly was a spiritual experience that I haven't yet found the right words for but I have not stepped foot in one again. All of the plastic and piles and piles and piles of unecessary stuff (mostly throw-away) that I just could not make any sense out of in my head and heart as I was picturing the momma who only could offer her kids gas (huffing) to ease their hunger pains. Everything about the store felt so wrong, but not because it was Wal-mart, per se, but because it epotomized a country with a lot of backwards priorities.

 

This is my experience and I feel blessed to have had it; it is not a standard I require or expect from others who have not seen what I have; I can't judge...boy oh howdy am I learning that over and over and over again. I feel a deep responsibility though, because of what I have seen. I cannot forget, I just can't and so my convictions about some things go very, very deep.

 

However, sometimes I just wonder does it matter, really? Often I feel alone in my endeavors and lose hope while gaining nothing but a deep sadness. Frankly I am not as much worried about the current presidential to do as I am about pop culture, consumerism, materialism, and a general trend toward egocentrism.

 

Just sort of a rant but does not even touch the very, very tip of the iceburg as far as the thinking and sould searching I put into "convictions" and such.

 

Emerald

 

BTDT! :iagree: Wholeheartedly!

[Peela]

http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/boycott/nestlefree.html

 

Briefly, their continued undermining of breastfeeding, particularly in countries where not breastfeeding spells an increase infant mortality rates.

 

Yeah, I don't buy Nestle either, since my SIL told me about that years ago. Its really, really sick.

 

These companies are driven by consumer dollars. If even 10% of consumers stopped buying there, or all consumers spent 10% less there because they wanted to support more ethical companies....I think it would make a difference.

How far do my convictions go? Not far enough, i am sure. I hate plastic, so much plastic everywhere, but I am not willing to go to the extent of never buying anything in plastic.

Maybe we just need to make changes slowly to the extent we can. The amount of organic food in my local supermarket has skyrocketed in the last few years- it must be because consumers demand it. We do have power.

[JudyJudyJudy]

It's very true that Wal-Mart is a bottom-of-the-barrel kind of place. But I think you have to follow that logic through: they offer people--in their stores and through their suppliers--crummy jobs. But why would anyone take those jobs? Because the alternative is worse.

...and Wal-Mart owners and executives know that they can exploit them as a result. Wal-mart makes enough money (and then some) that the workers in these areas could be paid far higher and work in far better conditions, but Wal-Mart knows how desperate these people are and chooses to take advantage of that desperation. It's sickening, and I won't contribute to that when I have other options.

[Laura Corin]

Those documentaries don't show the girls and boys alternative- it often is prostitution and sex slavery. I don't like children working long hours in bad conditions but I think the idea of exploitation for sex or starvation is worse.

 

I've met peasant farmers like the parents in the video. Their bodies are completely broken before they are sixty. Harsh as the conditions are for factory workers, most do find it preferable to the alternative of staying in the countryside (which is also dawn to dusk work, seven days a week).

 

Laura

[Julie in Austin]

...and Wal-Mart owners and executives know that they can exploit them as a result. Wal-mart makes enough money (and then some) that the workers in these areas could be paid far higher and work in far better conditions, but Wal-Mart knows how desperate these people are and chooses to take advantage of that desperation. It's sickening, and I won't contribute to that when I have other options.

 

Again, let's follow that logic through to the end.

 

Let's say Wal-Mart is currently paying 1$/hour (I just made that number up) and has an adequate number of people who want to work for them. Let's say that they decide you are right and therefore start paying 10$/hour.

 

What will happen?

 

There will now be many, many more people showing up for job interviews. How will they decide who to hire? Will local corrupt elements find some way to filter the jobs to "their" people? Will people be killed or maimed so their job opens up to someone else? Will people stop seeking education since you can now make more money at the Wal-Mart factory than you can as a teacher or a nurse? Will people pull their kids out of school so they can make 10$ instead of the family having to pay tuition for them?

 

And I'm not sure I buy the argument that Wal-Mart has "enough money" to do this, anyway. Their entire business is based on razor-thin margins. Which means if they really did go from 1$ to 10$, they would charge more and then the day laborers in my area who I frequently see there would no longer be able to buy what they need.

 

I don't want to leave you with the impression that I don't care about exploited workers in developing countries. My point is that if they have chosen to work for Wal-Mart, it is because it is the least exploitive option. We shouldn't take that away from them. Buying at Wal-Mart supports the most oppressed workers and, I would hope, leaves middle class families such as mine with enough money left over to donate to causes that actually benefit the poor globally. On the other hand, I could shop at Whole Paycheck Food and have nothing left over to give to an actual charity. Instead, it would go through the supply chain of Whole Foods, which does not consist of the most exploited workers.

[Lacie]

We shop at Wal-Mart. We live in the middle of nowhere and our only other choice is an IGA that is atleast twice as expensive than Wal-Mart and we just can afford it. When we did have a choice I choose to shop at HEB or Central Market. I love HEB. I used to work there years ago. They are very family oriented, they care about their employees and shoppers. I feel badly for being forced to shop at Wal-Mart, but honestly we can't afford to go anywhere else (besides HEB, if there was one close). I buy veggies and fruit at our local farmers market when I can, but it is still about 30 min from my house so I can only stop when I have errands taking me that direction.

[H.S. Burrow]

It's very true that Wal-Mart is a bottom-of-the-barrel kind of place. But I think you have to follow that logic through: they offer people--in their stores and through their suppliers--crummy jobs. But why would anyone take those jobs? Because the alternative is worse.

 

My great-grandmother came to this country with nothing and worked in a sweatshop in the 20s. Why? Because it was the best job she could get. If people had refused to buy sweat-shop-made goods, what would she have done?

 

I do almost all of my shopping at Wal-Mart and I do it without apology. I don't particularly care for their aesthetics, but I do appreciate the convenience and the prices. I'm also aware of the fact that in the small town my parents live in, part-time school-teachers pick up shifts there because it is literally the only part-time job in town with health benefits. Further, I appreciate the service that they do to the poor by providing low prices: there's a reason that I see women there dressed as hotel cleaners and men there dressed for work at lawn care or construction companies: it is a cheap and convenient place to shop.

 

This doesn't mean I think they are perfect, but I do think that the self-flagellation over shopping there or the avoidance of it needs to be carefully considered.

 

Again, let's follow that logic through to the end.

 

Let's say Wal-Mart is currently paying 1$/hour (I just made that number up) and has an adequate number of people who want to work for them. Let's say that they decide you are right and therefore start paying 10$/hour.

 

What will happen?

 

There will now be many, many more people showing up for job interviews. How will they decide who to hire? Will local corrupt elements find some way to filter the jobs to "their" people? Will people be killed or maimed so their job opens up to someone else? Will people stop seeking education since you can now make more money at the Wal-Mart factory than you can as a teacher or a nurse? Will people pull their kids out of school so they can make 10$ instead of the family having to pay tuition for them?

 

And I'm not sure I buy the argument that Wal-Mart has "enough money" to do this, anyway. Their entire business is based on razor-thin margins. Which means if they really did go from 1$ to 10$, they would charge more and then the day laborers in my area who I frequently see there would no longer be able to buy what they need.

 

I don't want to leave you with the impression that I don't care about exploited workers in developing countries. My point is that if they have chosen to work for Wal-Mart, it is because it is the least exploitive option. We shouldn't take that away from them. Buying at Wal-Mart supports the most oppressed workers and, I would hope, leaves middle class families such as mine with enough money left over to donate to causes that actually benefit the poor globally. On the other hand, I could shop at Whole Paycheck Food and have nothing left over to give to an actual charity. Instead, it would go through the supply chain of Whole Foods, which does not consist of the most exploited workers.

 

:iagree:with both of these posts. They make an excellent point that sometimes the alternative is worse.

 

I had a friend give me some information about Wal-Mart a couple of years ago. I decided to do more research. It's not JUST Wal-Mart. It's all of the products you might buy AT ANY STORE. Search out all of the major companies and you will find they all support at least one cause you don't or have at least one business practice that you don't agree with. And if they don't, they get their ingredients or supplies from other companies that support causes/have business practices that you don't agree with.

 

Unless you are going to be TOTALLY self-sufficient, you can't escape it. I don't live in an area where I can raise lambs/goats for wool and if I did, I don't know how to spin my own yarn or weave my own cloth. I can't raise my own beef, pork or poulty. I wish I did. I could go on and on. But I'm sure that you get the idea.

 

I choose to believe that God will take my dollar - no matter where it's spent - and do what good He can with it. Pollyanna-ish, I know, but that's how we see things.

[cathmom]

I understand now why somebody gave me rep for being brave enough to admit when I first joined the board that Walmart was the store I couldn't live without!

[mo2]

I haven't seen the video, but we shop at Walmart 2/3 times a week. There's no where else to shop here.

 

 

Same here. There just isn't anywhere else in our small town, and I certainly can't afford to drive an hour every time we need something.

[hornblower]

Forgot to mention that there is another documentary I'd recommend called

Is Walmart Good for America? http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/ It's a pbs show & you can watch online

in addition to the one mentioned by the OP (The High cost of low prices http://www.walmartmovie.com/

 

Also, I highly recommend the documentary called The Corporation http://www.thecorporation.com/index.cfm?page_id=2

 

I also recommend a documentary called Manufactured Landscapes.

http://www.edwardburtynsky.com/Introduction/Manufactured_Landscapes.html

It's a film by a photographer & is visually stunning. Just the opening sequence of a factory in China is so riveting we watched it over & over.

 

Lastly, I agree it's not just walmart. You get the same crap at tons of other stores. It's a small piece of the pie & it IS hypocritical to not shop at walmart & buy the same junk at another store. But I don't think you need to be totally self sufficient to avoid this. As I said, I try very hard to buy things made in countries with strong labour & consumer protection laws. It's not impossible. This past week I bought boots made in Canada and some storage containers made in the USA. My dishes are hand made in England in an old pottery. Runners are tough but I still can find New Balance which is made in the US.

 

I try to buy local, and I like to support small businesses. I also try to buy as little as I can, and whatever I buy, I try to find items of good, durable quality so I won't need to replace them soon.

 

I think it's easy to get bogged down with how big this problem is and really, I know my refusal to buy something made in china from walmart is not going to change THE world. But it changes MY world. And if enough of us, take little tiny steps, change happens.

 

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

[Saille]

I think that the people who are saying there is nowhere else to shop have hit on something, which is WalMart's strategy of building a store at a highway junction in a rural area. It puts all the local shops out of business, and then there really IS nowhere else to shop. That's why some people fight so hard to keep WalMart from coming in.

 

This is a fraught issue for me, because it highlights how different my parents and I are on some issues. My parents have held stock in WalMart for years. I don't shop there, at all, ever. But I do live somewhere that allows me other options.

 

If you google "responsible shopping guide" some things should come up that might help.

 

I appreciate you watching that documentary, even though you knew it would likely be upsetting.

 

And I know it's not a treat to work for WalMart, either.

[emeraldjoy]

This is totally off topic, but Emerald, I love your avatar(?) It is beautiful!:001_smile:

 

Thanks much.

I didn't even know what one was until Apiphobic (a fellow member) started a thread with a link to find one just a few days ago.

Witout her, I would still be faceless.....

e

[Margaret in GA]

:iagree:with both of these posts. They make an excellent point that sometimes the alternative is worse.

 

I had a friend give me some information about Wal-Mart a couple of years ago. I decided to do more research. It's not JUST Wal-Mart. It's all of the products you might buy AT ANY STORE. Search out all of the major companies and you will find they all support at least one cause you don't or have at least one business practice that you don't agree with. And if they don't, they get their ingredients or supplies from other companies that support causes/have business practices that you don't agree with.

 

Unless you are going to be TOTALLY self-sufficient, you can't escape it. I don't live in an area where I can raise lambs/goats for wool and if I did, I don't know how to spin my own yarn or weave my own cloth. I can't raise my own beef, pork or poulty. I wish I did. I could go on and on. But I'm sure that you get the idea.

 

I choose to believe that God will take my dollar - no matter where it's spent - and do what good He can with it. Pollyanna-ish, I know, but that's how we see things.

 

You don't need to be "totally" self-sufficient to do your part. Just because you can't go 100% fair trade, doesn't mean you shouldn't do all you can, when you can. There are so many fair trade options these days. I do have a friend that does this almost 100%. She's very dedicated to her cause- her kids only wear clothes from goodwill, for instance. And lest you think she has all the time in the world, she's a medical doctor with her own private practice.

 

And I utterly reject that we have only have 2 options.

option 1. is that people live a miserable existence working day and night in factories and die young or option 2. which is that they sell themselves as sex slaves. And I also reject that because someone's grandmother worked in a factory, it's OK and all just a part of the natural evolution of capitalism.

 

I'm not perfect, but neither do I throw up my hands and do nothing.

 

Margaret

[Karen sn]

I really appreciate this topic; tis something I ponder so, so much.

 

Our final straw was coming home from a 6 month trip through South East Asia (Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myamar, Laos) and needing something where Wal-mart was the easiest place to stop. It truly was a spiritual experience that I haven't yet found the right words for but I have not stepped foot in one again. All of the plastic and piles and piles and piles of unecessary stuff (mostly throw-away) that I just could not make any sense out of in my head and heart as I was picturing the momma who only could offer her kids gas (huffing) to ease their hunger pains. Everything about the store felt so wrong, but not because it was Wal-mart, per se, but because it epotomized a country with a lot of backwards priorities.

 

This is my experience and I feel blessed to have had it; it is not a standard I require or expect from others who have not seen what I have; I can't judge...boy oh howdy am I learning that over and over and over again. I feel a deep responsibility though, because of what I have seen. I cannot forget, I just can't and so my convictions about some things go very, very deep.

 

However, sometimes I just wonder does it matter, really? Often I feel alone in my endeavors and lose hope while gaining nothing but a deep sadness. Frankly I am not as much worried about the current presidential to do as I am about pop culture, consumerism, materialism, and a general trend toward egocentrism.

 

Just sort of a rant but does not even touch the very, very tip of the iceburg as far as the thinking and sould searching I put into "convictions" and such.

 

 

Emerald

 

So - the mom was inhaling gas with her kids to get some kind of high because they were starving?

[Karen sn]

And I also reject that because someone's grandmother worked in a factory, it's OK and all just a part of the natural evolution of capitalism.

 

 

Margaret

 

I agree.

What did we ever do before factories and exploitation?

[emeraldjoy]

I think that the people who are saying there is nowhere else to shop have hit on something, which is WalMart's strategy of building a store at a highway junction in a rural area. It puts all the local shops out of business, and then there really IS nowhere else to shop. That's why some people fight so hard to keep WalMart from coming in.

 

 

Regardless of the fact that you are one of my only two friends on here (ha, ha)....this is an extremely key point!! Extremely. Another major ramification of box stores that hasn't really been discussed yet.

Thanks.

e

[Highereducation]

I do everything I can not to shop at Walmart ... but I do shop at Target.

 

Within the last few months, my family has started an effort to buy things made in the USA. Now, I'm well aware that even though something is labeled "Made in USA," it might actually contain a high percentage of components made elsewhere, but it's a start!

 

An unexpected upside of this effort is that because it's so hard to find products made in the USA, our spending over the last three or four months has decreased sharply and I have been able to see just how much excess we were purchasing.

[emeraldjoy]

So - the mom was inhaling gas with her kids to get some kind of high because they were starving?

 

She was inhaling gas as well as giving it to her very hungry children. It is often cheaper than food and it takes hunger pains away better than anything else...Cambodia and Burmese/Thailand border I saw this...dads too.

 

Maybe too emotional as well as too loosely related to the original question....but.... I suppose what I wanted to portray is this incessant (sp, not sure if it is even a word) desire for stuff that we (not all, please dont think I pointing fingers, but our society as whole) have that seems so utterly ridiculous and unbalanced when faced with a scene such as the above. Does that make sense?

 

Not only did I have a strong desire to never step foot into wal-mart again (or box stores in general), but I also had an intense desire to get rid of EVERY SINGLE material possesion our family owned... all our STUFF just seemed meaningless and ridiculous when looking into the fevered eyes of a 5 year old. In so many ways our lives were changed, never to be the same again.

 

Emerald

 

P.S. I am going to totally overgeneralize here... but I really want to say that one of the reasons I appreciate homeschool communities so much (secular, christian, or other) is that I see a general trend toward being more conerned or at least aware of issues such as these. I love conversations like this and appreciate all the points the view and REALLY appreciate just the fact that it is being discussed.

Thanks.

e

[Scarlett]

A friend of mine sent me to a link with a documentary about WalMart called "The High Cost of Low Price". Maybe I live under a rock but I had never heard of it before and I CRIED MY EYES OUT while watching it. It made me want to go out and burn down all the Walmarts!!!

 

Only one problem...dh is a manager at Walmart

 

I just want to say I think it was extrembly rude and tacky for your 'friend' to send you a link to such a negative documentary about the company for which your dh works.

 

And that is all I have to say about that.

[Karen sn]

Watch this video. It is about what happend to children in Bangladesh when they were forced out of working in the textile industry.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/09/28/what.matters.dust/

 

I don't love Wal-Mart but I think it is part of a complicated issue. I don't believe everything I see in any documentary.

 

Thanks for the link.

I have discovered Shehzand Noori today.

Even in my own depressing circumstances I am reminded of how truly lucky I am. My dd is innocent and my infant is not covered in battery dust.

Dare say I in the midst of my depression I am happy.

[Haiku]

My convictions tell me to take a stand but the economy and my wallet say "go to Walmart, it's cheaper".

 

 

I have never in my life shopped at Wal-Mart. I've managed just fine, even when times were extremely tough financially. If you just act loike Wal-Mart's not there, it's not an issue.

 

If you're choosing to make the switch to a non-Wal-Mart lifestyle, you'll just have to stop comparing prices. Wal-Mart is usually cheaper. And you don't like the reasons why they are cheaper. When we decided to make the switch to eating organic, I learned quickly that I have to not worry about the cost difference between conventional and organic because we're not basing our decision on price.

 

The other thing is, you could probably reduce what you buy and where you buy it. We don't buy a lot of the things that most people do. We don't buy commercial cleaners, we don't buy tissues, we don't buy paper towels, etc. We use homemade cleaners, blow our noses with toilet paper, and use cloth towels. If I absolutely have to buy something, I buy it used. To me, a $3 Wal-Mart t-shirt is not a deal when a) you consider the social ramifications of why that shirt is $3 and b) you can buy a $.50 used t-shirt. If it's something that can't be bought used, I simply buy from somewhere other than Wal-Mart. No company is perfect, right, but Wal-Mart has horrendous practices right here in the US that I refuse to support.

 

I think that far fewer people would shop at Wal-Mart if they were standing face to face with the people that Wal-Mart hurts.

 

Tara

[Karen sn]

I too am working toward having less stuff.

I want a more full life and less crap is how I plan to get there.

[BabyBre]

It's hard to do the right thing, that's why so many people don't. How many people do you know that say "I know I shouldn't shop there, but I have no choice"? That one kills me!

 

Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody's looking, even if it's the hardest thing. If boycotting Wal-Mart and other businesses like them is part of what we have to do to help improve the integrity of this nation, I'll do it happily. Think of all who have gone before us who have sacrificed so much more than "low prices". We're happy to go with less for our money and support those businesses who still have integrity.

[Haiku]

Every time I see/hear a discussion about Wal-Mart, people always bring up the fact that at least the exploited workers Wal-Mart uses HAVE jobs and it's better than not having a job.

 

But I have yet to hear anyone say that the reason they shop at Wal-Mart is because they want to support these exploited workers. The reason is always that it's cheap, or it's close, or it's convenient. It seems, to me, that the cheapness of Wal-Mart is the reason and the idea that shopping at Wal-Mart creates jobs for some faceless other who is grateful to have the crappy job is the excuse that's made up after the fact. I'm not trying to be high and mighty. I'm just sayin', no one has evert said to me (or in my hearing), "I proudly shop at Wal-Mart so that low-wage workers in other countries can have jobs!"

 

To take the idea of Whole Foods further, if more people shopped at Whole Foods, their company would grow and they would need to create more quality jobs. Quality jobs go a lot further in remediating poverty than charity does. It's great when people give to charity; our family does, too. But even better, to me, is spending our consumer dollars in ways that don't perpetuate the very problems we give money to charities to alleviate.

 

Spending more money at ethical companies might pinch, but if more people did it, more better-quality jobs would be created.

 

I know there are people who live in places where Wal-Mart is the only game in town. My dh and I are lucky not to live in such a place. We considered moving closer to dh's family but one of the main reasons we didn't is the lack of non-Wal Mart shopping. Dh and I have always said that, if we lived in an area where Wal-Mart became the only game in town, we would move. Easier said than done, I know, but if we lived in a place where Wal-Mart really was it, there would be other things about that area that would not suit our family.

 

But even if Wal-Mart is it, there is always internet shopping, carpooling, shop-sharing (which some of my friends and I do ... I call a friend who lives nearby and say, "I am going to XYZ, can I pick up anything for you?" and she does the same for me), and simply living by the idea that we have to make due until the next big trip into town to shop somewhere else (which we do even though we have plenty of shopping options; I shop twice a month and if we need something in the mean time, we either have to borrow, improvise, or do without).

 

I don't mean to sound holier than thou. I know that some people have few options. But for those that do, it truly is a matter of conviction.

 

Tara

[Heather in Neverland]

I just want to say I think it was extrembly rude and tacky for your 'friend' to send you a link to such a negative documentary about the company for which your dh works.

 

And that is all I have to say about that.

 

Yeah, I know. I don't think she was trying to be rude...she's just very passionate about the topic, you know, trying to "enlighten" me. But it did sting quite a bit and now dh is very conflicted. He couldn't even watch the whole thing.

[PamJH]

I'd have to say all big box stores are guilty of at least a couple of poor business practices, whether it be hurting their own employees or by supplying clothing for foreign sweatshops.

 

It's hard to avoid it all. Our economy isn't set up that way. Most of us don't make our own clothing, and if we did the cloth is usually imported, again from nations that allow sweatshops. We don't tan leather to make shoes, so there you go again. My produce is from a foreign source much of the time.

 

But I can take a stand against Wal-Mart, fast-food restaurants and try to shop locally whenever I can.

[H.S. Burrow]

You don't need to be "totally" self-sufficient to do your part. Just because you can't go 100% fair trade, doesn't mean you shouldn't do all you can, when you can. There are so many fair trade options these days. I do have a friend that does this almost 100%. She's very dedicated to her cause- her kids only wear clothes from goodwill, for instance. And lest you think she has all the time in the world, she's a medical doctor with her own private practice.

 

And I utterly reject that we have only have 2 options.

option 1. is that people live a miserable existence working day and night in factories and die young or option 2. which is that they sell themselves as sex slaves. And I also reject that because someone's grandmother worked in a factory, it's OK and all just a part of the natural evolution of capitalism.

 

I'm not perfect, but neither do I throw up my hands and do nothing.

 

Margaret

 

I just want to be clear that I don't throw up my hands and do nothing.:) We recycle and purchase American made whenever possible.

 

When I did my research on Wal-Mart (if you want to know specifically what I was researching, you can pm me - I'm not up for another debate ;)), I found every single major corporation - whose groceries are on any grocery shelf - listed right along side Wal-Mart. And many of those parent companies have smaller companies. The one that comes to mind is that Nestle owns Stouffer. Not only that, there were companies listed that do business with other companies. By that I mean, your shirt might be American made, but the thread used to sew it together came from China.

 

My point is to not stress over every dime I spend and do the best that I can with what I have.

[Julie in Austin]

 

And I utterly reject that we have only have 2 options.

option 1. is that people live a miserable existence working day and night in factories and die young or option 2. which is that they sell themselves as sex slaves. And I also reject that because someone's grandmother worked in a factory, it's OK and all just a part of the natural evolution of capitalism.

 

I'm not perfect, but neither do I throw up my hands and do nothing.

 

Margaret

 

What are the other options?

 

Also, I'm the one who mentioned the grandmother in the sweatshop, but not to suggest that if my family had to go through that, then so should others. If it came across that way, I'm very, very sorry for not being clearer. What I meant to say is this: I don't view sweatshop workers as "other." Having one in the recent family tree makes the issue real to me and also makes me think about it from the inside, so to speak. I don't think about it and say, "Gee, those working conditions are terrible--we shouldn't buy from that company." I think about it and think, "If she's willing to work in these terrible conditions, then what kind of really terrible conditions would she have to work in if this job disappeared?"

[yoda]

I just want to be clear that I don't throw up my hands and do nothing.:) We recycle and purchase American made whenever possible.

 

When I did my research on Wal-Mart (if you want to know specifically what I was researching, you can pm me - I'm not up for another debate ;)), I found every single major corporation - whose groceries are on any grocery shelf - listed right along side Wal-Mart. And many of those parent companies have smaller companies. The one that comes to mind is that Nestle owns Stouffer. Not only that, there were companies listed that do business with other companies. By that I mean, your shirt might be American made, but the thread used to sew it together came from China.

 

My point is to not stress over every dime I spend and do the best that I can with what I have.

 

 

I agree, really like how you put this. I feel we have to constantly weigh off two sides against each other and choose the lesser evil for our particular circumstances, looking at many things. That said we also try to buy from locally owned small business, (although even there it is extremely hard to find something not made in China if you need certain household goods) and boycot Walmart.

 

But there are always trade offs. We buy our vegetables from an organic coop, and the vegetables are flown in every week, and much fresher than at the store, but then I stress again over the use of airplane fuel in getting my vegetables, there is always something.